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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>3 Yr Old Hits Mom
Unregistered 04:48 AM 10-31-2017
Do you step in? I do not provide breakfast, but they are welcome to bring a healthy breakfast and eat here. This parent gets her kids settled in at the table before she leaves. She asked her almost 3 yr old a question about her cereal and DCG winds up big and hits her on the arm. I immediately step in, get on DCG's level and tell her that is not nice, to tell Mom sorry, etc. Mom stands there not saying a word. Mom is very laid back and probably would not have done anything about it if I didn't step in. Drives me CRAZY that parents do not discipline their children! Did I overstep my boundaries?
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daycarediva 04:50 AM 10-31-2017
NO! At your house, your rules.

I would have simply got on her level and said "DCG, I will NOT allow you to hit at school."

The End.

Mom should be embarrassed, not by her child- by her lack of action!
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CeriBear 05:28 AM 10-31-2017
I agree with what daycare diva says. If a kid hits or kicks a parent/sibling in front of me I say something like we do not use our hands to hit people at school.
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HappyEverAfter 06:02 AM 10-31-2017
I don't think you overstepped at all. You are the one responsible for enforcing the rules at your house so I think you did the right thing.
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CeriBear 06:32 AM 10-31-2017
And I dont think you overstepped your bounds either. If its YOUR house the kids need to follow YOUR rules.
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Blackcat31 06:34 AM 10-31-2017
Odd man out, but I won't parent a child when their parent is present. I would have told mom that she needs to handle it.

I would speak with the child myself about hitting in my home but if the parent is/was present then I look to them to discipline.

It might be my house but its not my child.

Its very common for parents to step back and let you parent their child. It's easiest for most and for the rest, they are usually just guilty of not knowing what they should or shouldn't do. Fear of judgement I suppose.
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Blackcat31 06:40 AM 10-31-2017
This is not directed at anyone in particular but the old "My house, My rules" line of thinking is really not respectful nor appropriate in my opinion.

It would probably resonate with me in a more positive tone if it went both ways....[my child, my rules]..... but when that concept is used, most providers just roll their eyes and laugh.

I think its part of why family child care providers aren't respected much.

Anyhow..... stepping down slowly and backing away.
Like I said, my comment is NOT directed at anyone in particular.... it was just something I needed to get out.
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Snowmom 06:56 AM 10-31-2017
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
This is not directed at anyone in particular but the old "My house, My rules" line of thinking is really not respectful nor appropriate in my opinion.

It would probably resonate with me in a more positive tone if it went both ways....[my child, my rules]..... but when that concept is used, most providers just roll their eyes and laugh.

I think its part of why family child care providers aren't respected much.

Anyhow..... stepping down slowly and backing away.
Like I said, my comment is NOT directed at anyone in particular.... it was just something I needed to get out.

Ha. I get what you're saying. I don't find that particular phrase too inviting as well.

But, then I look at when kids go to school and they (and us as the parent) need to sign the school's "code of conduct" and throw out phrases like "zero tolerance".
School rules.

Or looking at the signs in front of restaurants "no shirt, no shoes, no service".
Establishment rules.

They're all basically saying "my house, my rules". Aren't they?
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Blackcat31 07:30 AM 10-31-2017
Originally Posted by Snowmom:
Ha. I get what you're saying. I don't find that particular phrase too inviting as well.

But, then I look at when kids go to school and they (and us as the parent) need to sign the school's "code of conduct" and throw out phrases like "zero tolerance".
School rules.

Or looking at the signs in front of restaurants "no shirt, no shoes, no service".
Establishment rules.

They're all basically saying "my house, my rules". Aren't they?
But they aren't expecting you, the adult to manage it so they don't have to

They are also following state rules for sanitary reasons.
If providers say "my house, my rules" its very rarely because of a state reg. When it's a state reg or law they definitely use that to drive the point home but usually just say "Not my fault, it's the state's rule".

Don't get me wrong....I do think it's your (general you) house/program so it's your rules but I think the phrase is tossed around entirely too much and often times in support of a provider that is going back and forth with a parent....kwim?

I have a rule about no hitting in my home as well but rather than discipline a child that isn't under my sole care and supervision at the time, I prefer to direct the parent to uphold, follow or adhere to the rule. A child is a child and children push boundaries and try to get away with what ever they can.

I think it's vital for the child to understand their parent is the ultimate authority and when they see their parent just standing there while the daycare provider disciplines or punishes, it diminishes the parents power. It's no wonder children rarely respects the parent.

It's kind of like the old saying "Give a man a fish and he eats for a day, teach a man to fish and he eats for a lifetime" I prefer to teach the parent to be a parent. It will benefit the child and the parent in the long run much more than me whipping out the authority card.
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daycarediva 09:02 AM 10-31-2017
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
This is not directed at anyone in particular but the old "My house, My rules" line of thinking is really not respectful nor appropriate in my opinion.

It would probably resonate with me in a more positive tone if it went both ways....[my child, my rules]..... but when that concept is used, most providers just roll their eyes and laugh.

I think its part of why family child care providers aren't respected much.

Anyhow..... stepping down slowly and backing away.
Like I said, my comment is NOT directed at anyone in particular.... it was just something I needed to get out.
I hear ya. My line of thinking is that when I allow parents to step in and handle it, they don't. Then we have this odd power play where the child realizes that when the parent is here they get away with murder. With no definite boundaries of drop off space (eg. entry where parents don't walk past, etc) it's hard to give the kids a definite Mom is in charge now signal, ya know?

I used to do the same and expected parents to step up. I have even given parents specific 'please do not allow...' and they failed to follow through.

Now I'm mean and just say "NOPE." to the child, because I get MORE respect from the child when I enforce my rules the same, regardless of who is present.
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daycarediva 09:07 AM 10-31-2017
and thinking more about this... I have parents that DO step up and I don't have to say anything. So I don't. (those kids are better behaved in general, too)

I guess in the same way that teachers have classroom rules that aren't school rule specific (eg one allows gum, one doesn't allow pens, etc) and my kids better follow those rules and be respectful. If I were present, aware.unaware of the rule, and my child were to break it, I would HOPE the teacher would reinforce it.
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Unregistered 06:36 PM 11-04-2017
@Blackcat31 How do you handle this? What do you do when a parent does not address an inappropriate behavior when it happens? Just curious.
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hwichlaz 08:20 AM 11-06-2017
I don't think enforcing our rules loses respect for the parents. The parents NOT enforcing healthy rules and boundaries is what does that. We should pause for a moment before stepping in, but not allow the behavior just because the parent is there not doing anything.
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Blackcat31 08:36 AM 11-06-2017
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
@Blackcat31 How do you handle this? What do you do when a parent does not address an inappropriate behavior when it happens? Just curious.
I am pretty blunt when necessary. I don't have issue "telling" parents what to do. Most are the same age as my own young adult kids so it's kind of natural for me to be authoritative with them right now.

I would start by saying something like "Oh-Oh it looks like Sally isn't following the rules. Maybe mom needs to explain to her why hitting is not acceptable."

......give side eye look to mom saying with my eyes "time to step in mom..." and then I just walk away.
(giving mom to opportunity to step in)

I would probably say "When you are ready, please have Sally come on in and join the rest of us!" and I'd go back to doing whatever I was doing before.

I have a cubby room/entry way that is separated from the main part of the daycare by a half door so the parent would not be allowed to send their child in until child is calm and ready.

If this were happening at pick up, I would just say something like "Mom you need to take Sally to the car. Hitting is not tolerated in daycare. Please discuss this with Sally at home. Bye! See you tomorrow!"

....and send them out the door.

I am sure at one point or another I've probably had to say the words "mom/dad YOU must handle this. YOU are your child's first and most important teacher and I expect you to lead. I will support and encourage but I will not manage your child's behaviors while you are present."

(most of that ^^^^ is discussed during the interview/enrollment as part of my philosophy on child rearing/parenting etc so most my families know this is how I do things and it's not new for any of them)

Hope that helps.
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Mom2Two 12:01 PM 11-06-2017
My normal reaction would be to put dck3 in time out. But it always feels weird to discipline kids in front of their parents, so I'm thinking that I need to come up with a "line" to put the ball back in the parents' court, so to speak.

Maybe I'll practise (bouncing off BC's line here)

(talking to parent) "She needs to be behaving better before she is seated at the table. You can talk to her outside. then bring her back in when she's ready to behave.

Idk. Maybe bringing a child in a poor mood is similar to bringing them in an unchanged diaper/pjs/dirty/etc
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Blackcat31 12:21 PM 11-06-2017
Originally Posted by Mom2Two:
Idk. Maybe bringing a child in a poor mood is similar to bringing them in an unchanged diaper/pjs/dirty/etc
yes!! 9 out of 10 child issues are parent created.

That is one reason I put the ball back into the parent's court.

The other is that I truly believe that if a parent learns that certain environments require certain behaviors and if their child is not able to adapt to those requirements, they will never succeed in life.

Life's tough but parents shouldn't be making it harder for their children by doing things the easy way themselves.
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AmyKidsCo 01:12 PM 11-06-2017
I don't know if I'd say something about a child hitting their own parent, but if it were another child I'd definitely say something. I wouldn't demand an apology though, because that sets up a power struggle that could get ugly.
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Pestle 03:09 PM 11-06-2017
I don't discipline kids for acting out towards their parents--I watch to see what the parents do. It goes a long way toward learning why the problems occur at all.
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mommyneedsadayoff 03:15 PM 11-06-2017
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
yes!! 9 out of 10 child issues are parent created.

That is one reason I put the ball back into the parent's court.

The other is that I truly believe that if a parent learns that certain environments require certain behaviors and if their child is not able to adapt to those requirements, they will never succeed in life.

Life's tough but parents shouldn't be making it harder for their children by doing things the easy way themselves.
I think this is very true and a big reason kindergarten teachers are having a tough time. Parents are not setting their kids up to adapt and succeed in different environments. Instead, they change the environment to suit the child, versus having the child adapt to the new environment. Once you hit kindergarten and lose most of the control over the environment, the kids AND parents have a tough time.

I have only had one time where a little sch slapped her mom while we were talking. It was out of character and caught us all off guard so I did gasp and say we don't hit, nut it was kind of a instant reaction. Luckily, most of the parents do a great job with their kids, and quite honestly, I don't really care otherwise, because I have them suited up and ready to leave the minute mom or dad knocks, so there is not a lot of opportunity for misbehaving.
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hwichlaz 04:40 PM 11-06-2017
Originally Posted by AmyKidsCo:
I don't know if I'd say something about a child hitting their own parent, but if it were another child I'd definitely say something. I wouldn't demand an apology though, because that sets up a power struggle that could get ugly.
it also teaches them to lie, an insincere apology means less than nothing.
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AmyKidsCo 06:20 PM 11-06-2017
Originally Posted by hwichlaz:
it also teaches them to lie, an insincere apology means less than nothing.
Yep. Although I'm not against apologies in general, but you have to know when to expect them and when to let it go.

To me apologies fall under General Politeness. You say please, thank you, you're welcome, nice to meet you, hello, goodbye, and I'm sorry. Even if you don't feel it, you do it because it's the polite thing to do. But it's something you teach over time, on a case by case basis.
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Lil_Diddle 08:50 PM 11-06-2017
I'm having the same issue with new 4 year old DCG. She is good for me because I have rules,routines and consequences. As soon as DCM shows up she is a terror to her mother and DCM is so passive. DCG yells at her and hits and kicks her. Anyways, I usually try to let the parents do their thing once they are here, but I've had a 3 year old DCG who has started this behavior now with her mom, I've had her since she was an infant and she's never acted this way towards her mother so I know exactly where this behavior came from. So I finally spoke up and told DCM and DCG that this behavior was no longer acceptable, hitting is not allowed here and she will sit in time out regardless if mom is here or not. That was Friday, today DCG started in and mom, very subtly reminded her, DCG hit again and DCM told her to sit in time-out, with no authority to her voice and it's easy to tell she never fills through because DCG keeps at it. So I did step in and reminded DCG of our rule and told her she had to sit, she looked at her mom and I said no, you are still at daycare and you broke a rule you need to sit. And guess what she did... and you know what DCM did, she sat on the floor right beside her and whispered, see I tried to tell you. It was the most rediculous thing I have ever seen in my life.
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Mom2Two 12:43 PM 11-07-2017
Originally Posted by Lil_Diddle:
I'm having the same issue with new 4 year old DCG. She is good for me because I have rules,routines and consequences. As soon as DCM shows up she is a terror to her mother and DCM is so passive. DCG yells at her and hits and kicks her. Anyways, I usually try to let the parents do their thing once they are here, but I've had a 3 year old DCG who has started this behavior now with her mom, I've had her since she was an infant and she's never acted this way towards her mother so I know exactly where this behavior came from. So I finally spoke up and told DCM and DCG that this behavior was no longer acceptable, hitting is not allowed here and she will sit in time out regardless if mom is here or not. That was Friday, today DCG started in and mom, very subtly reminded her, DCG hit again and DCM told her to sit in time-out, with no authority to her voice and it's easy to tell she never fills through because DCG keeps at it. So I did step in and reminded DCG of our rule and told her she had to sit, she looked at her mom and I said no, you are still at daycare and you broke a rule you need to sit. And guess what she did... and you know what DCM did, she sat on the floor right beside her and whispered, see I tried to tell you. It was the most rediculous thing I have ever seen in my life.
Wow, so you're the "bad cop"? What a crummy thing to do to you.

Any way you could have that kid's shoes on and bag by the door and get her to the door right after mom knocks, before opening the door? It sounds like it would be an uphill battle to get mom to change at this point.

But it makes me want to think through how I would handle it if it came up again for me. I do have one set of parents that are a little bit lenient. They haven't liked some of their children's behavior, but took a long time to actually be as firm as needed to actually make a change. But I know that there are much worse children than those out there. And at least these parents did care about the behavior.
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lovemykidstoo 04:26 PM 11-07-2017
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Do you step in? I do not provide breakfast, but they are welcome to bring a healthy breakfast and eat here. This parent gets her kids settled in at the table before she leaves. She asked her almost 3 yr old a question about her cereal and DCG winds up big and hits her on the arm. I immediately step in, get on DCG's level and tell her that is not nice, to tell Mom sorry, etc. Mom stands there not saying a word. Mom is very laid back and probably would not have done anything about it if I didn't step in. Drives me CRAZY that parents do not discipline their children! Did I overstep my boundaries?
I think the really easy fix on this is to have mom just drop the kids off. She should not be doing transition time and getting the kids settled at the table. I would simply say, to avoid any hitting, bad behavior etc, I will just take the kids and settle them in. Have a great day at work, bye! One of my dcb's used to do that. Instantly, I just opened the door and took him and mom didn't even step in the house. Took months of doing that and he didn't hit anymore.
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lovemykidstoo 04:27 PM 11-07-2017
Originally Posted by Lil_Diddle:
I'm having the same issue with new 4 year old DCG. She is good for me because I have rules,routines and consequences. As soon as DCM shows up she is a terror to her mother and DCM is so passive. DCG yells at her and hits and kicks her. Anyways, I usually try to let the parents do their thing once they are here, but I've had a 3 year old DCG who has started this behavior now with her mom, I've had her since she was an infant and she's never acted this way towards her mother so I know exactly where this behavior came from. So I finally spoke up and told DCM and DCG that this behavior was no longer acceptable, hitting is not allowed here and she will sit in time out regardless if mom is here or not. That was Friday, today DCG started in and mom, very subtly reminded her, DCG hit again and DCM told her to sit in time-out, with no authority to her voice and it's easy to tell she never fills through because DCG keeps at it. So I did step in and reminded DCG of our rule and told her she had to sit, she looked at her mom and I said no, you are still at daycare and you broke a rule you need to sit. And guess what she did... and you know what DCM did, she sat on the floor right beside her and whispered, see I tried to tell you. It was the most rediculous thing I have ever seen in my life.
Oh Lord no. I can imagine your eyes were popping out when mom sat by the child. Just do quick goodbyes. With that behavior, I would not want to do time out with the child, I'd want the child in the car going home. The child is getting alot of attention with all of that.
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Lil_Diddle 08:20 PM 11-09-2017
Originally Posted by Lil_Diddle:
I'm having the same issue with new 4 year old DCG. She is good for me because I have rules,routines and consequences. As soon as DCM shows up she is a terror to her mother and DCM is so passive. DCG yells at her and hits and kicks her. Anyways, I usually try to let the parents do their thing once they are here, but I've had a 3 year old DCG who has started this behavior now with her mom, I've had her since she was an infant and she's never acted this way towards her mother so I know exactly where this behavior came from. So I finally spoke up and told DCM and DCG that this behavior was no longer acceptable, hitting is not allowed here and she will sit in time out regardless if mom is here or not. That was Friday, today DCG started in and mom, very subtly reminded her, DCG hit again and DCM told her to sit in time-out, with no authority to her voice and it's easy to tell she never fills through because DCG keeps at it. So I did step in and reminded DCG of our rule and told her she had to sit, she looked at her mom and I said no, you are still at daycare and you broke a rule you need to sit. And guess what she did... and you know what DCM did, she sat on the floor right beside her and whispered, see I tried to tell you. It was the most rediculous thing I have ever seen in my life.
It happened again, DCM was trying to put DCG in time-out, it was not going well. DCM says, come here and sit in time-out, I will sit beside you. Omg I was flabbergasted. When DCM came in today the girl was sitting on the rug, mom asked "is she in time-out? I said no, she has her coat and shoes on and is waiting nicely while her friends are getting ready to go outside. DCM says, oh wow. She never does that for me. I just wanted to say "I wonder why?" It's so obvious who is in control in that household. What's sad is, it's only going to get worse
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Cat Herder 05:19 AM 11-10-2017
Originally Posted by Lil_Diddle:
It happened again, DCM was trying to put DCG in time-out, it was not going well. DCM says, come here and sit in time-out, I will sit beside you. Omg I was flabbergasted. When DCM came in today the girl was sitting on the rug, mom asked "is she in time-out? I said no, she has her coat and shoes on and is waiting nicely while her friends are getting ready to go outside. DCM says, oh wow. She never does that for me. I just wanted to say "I wonder why?" It's so obvious who is in control in that household. What's sad is, it's only going to get worse
Sounds like it is time for a conference. Without child in tow. With both parents.
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Lil_Diddle 11:57 AM 11-10-2017
She is a single mom, DCD is not in the picture. I think that may be part of her reasoning
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lovemykidstoo 12:05 PM 11-10-2017
Originally Posted by Lil_Diddle:
It happened again, DCM was trying to put DCG in time-out, it was not going well. DCM says, come here and sit in time-out, I will sit beside you. Omg I was flabbergasted. When DCM came in today the girl was sitting on the rug, mom asked "is she in time-out? I said no, she has her coat and shoes on and is waiting nicely while her friends are getting ready to go outside. DCM says, oh wow. She never does that for me. I just wanted to say "I wonder why?" It's so obvious who is in control in that household. What's sad is, it's only going to get worse

OMG she sat with her a 2nd time at the end of the day in your house? How do you stand it? I would want them out the door so fast! I would come up with another consequence than time out at the end of the day. Tell momma take her home now! She's loving this at the end of the day having you 2 cater to her, even in a negative way. What's her favorite toy. Tell her that tomorrow when she comes, that toy sits up on the shelf and she can look at it all day, but cannot play with it.
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Josiegirl 01:46 AM 11-11-2017
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
yes!! 9 out of 10 child issues are parent created.

That is one reason I put the ball back into the parent's court.

The other is that I truly believe that if a parent learns that certain environments require certain behaviors and if their child is not able to adapt to those requirements, they will never succeed in life.

Life's tough but parents shouldn't be making it harder for their children by doing things the easy way themselves.
Haven't read all the replies yet but parents have to get out of the house every a.m. and get to work so of course, they're going to do what works to get their kids going. It takes more time/effort/authority to do that. I like BC's ways of wording things.
I don't think I'd step in to curb behavior between dcm and child but on anything else I'd say something, such as being mean to another dck, not listening to rules such as jumping on the couch, etc. Kids have to learn different rules for different places, school, home, stores, dc, etc but if dcm allows dck to hit her then that's up to dcm to work with that. I also think a lot of parents are afraid to discipline in front of other people because they don't want to be seen as a 'bad' parent, even though the opposite would be true. I just remember having to drag my not-so-nice 5 yo dd out of stores and getting 'the look' from people. Kids will definitely take advantage of what they think they can get away with.
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CeriBear 03:43 AM 11-12-2017
I do not discipline kids in front of their parents but if a child breaks a rule ( like hitting his daddy, hitting a friend, or climbing upon a chair ) I do tell them to stop. Just because mommy or daddy is around does not give the kid the free reign when it comes to rules.
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Tags:hitting, rules, violent child
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