Okay, I need some opinions/advice. I have a dcb who is 3.5 yrs old. This morning his dad carries him in (which is very abnormal..he walks in every morning) Dad says, "Billy says his leg hurts. He was fine when he went to bed but now he says he can't walk, so here he is". I take him in and sit him on a floor cushion in the living room.

So, here's the real story.....there is NOTHING wrong with this little guy. I know this and dad knows this. It is just recently that the the dcb has begun using "I'm sick" or "I don't feel good" or "I'm hurt" as an excuse to either be babied, not have to clean up/put toys away or to be carried by his parents. Most the time the parents just give in. This little guy is here M-F from 6:00 a.m. to 4:30 p.m. So I know it is all an attempt to gain attention from his parents...but that is a whole other story....

So...what I want to know is how do I handle this at daycare? Last week, after we had pulled a ton of activities out and played for hours, he pulled the whole "I'm sick" act when it was cleanup time and I blew it off and simply said "If you do not cleanup like the others then you can not play the next time". He really didnt care much. It was after 3 p.m. already and he knew he was going home soon. So the next day when he came and asked to play with the same toys I said no because he didnt clean up last time. He shrugged and played a different activity.

So I am wondering is this how I should continue handling it; by ignoring it and not allowing him to play with the stuff he didn't pick up? I also do not give him a ton of attention about it because I know he is ok from his behavior and the fact that I have had him for several years and know him quite well. The big problem now is he has started doing/saying this whenever ANYTHING comes up that he doesn't want to do. Share with others, eat lunch, clean up, stop one activity and go on to another, take a nap/rest etc etc.....and now to make matters worse another 3.5 year old dcb has caught on and he has started saying he isn't feeling well now too! Ey ey ey!!

What would you all do? I know for a fact that neither is hurt/sick/or any thing else because of the behaviors they have when they are doing the things they want to do. advice please......

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MY kids have pulled this on me "I'm too tired to" clean up, or " my tummy hurts" so I don't have to go to the bed yet, eat lunch etc.

So my rule is, if you are sick/too tired/hurt, no toys, you stay in your bed. They feel better quickly!!!!

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That's exactly what I do! I say, "Ok, if you're sick/hurt then you need to rest. Let's go lay down." They get going pretty quickly.

And honestly, it's a good test to see if they really are sick. Last week, my DD took me up on it, and 10 minutes later she was STILL laying down. I checked her temp and she had a fever! Turns out she had the flu. But I digress...

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Agree 100%

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Yep, I do this with my DD when she says things like this and it works like a charm. Sometimes, she takes me up on it for a few minutes and then is fine...she just needed a break for a few minutes.

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I agree with the earlier posts. My kids know if they are too sick to do what is expected then they need to go to bed and take a rest. I purposefully do something really enjoyable (like music) if I know they are pulling this just to get out of cleaning. "I don't feel good" doesnt last too long here.

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I think we often forget too, that kids easily get over stimulated, and sometimes just the bad behaviours are ways of dealing with it!

We find kids tire us out and outrun us, but kids also need a break, relax, etc, and not always when we designate it.

Kids get stressed, and need to learn how to deal with it. But often they don't want to miss out on anything.

Also, we as adults often forget how hard it is to be a kid as well (make decisions, tie our shoes, etc) and we also forget that children deal with stress, emotions and other things for different reasons (they are not worried about finances!).

So they do need that break sometimes to lay down for 10 minutes (even if it's an hour after nap time).

My rule is though, that if they make a mess, take out more than one toys, dump a bucket of toys out, they have to clean it up. And if they don't, they will not be playing with any other toys for the rest of the day, if I have to clean it up. They will sit there and watch everyone else play. I will offer to help them clean it up, and often they will take me up on that, but I won't clean it all up for them and then let them do it again.

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Okay, that is my problem. The little boy WILL go lay down happily because it gets him out of doing whatever it is he is avoiding. When the clean up period or avoided activity is over, he wants to get up and act as though nothing is wrong and will say "I feel better now" So do I make him lay back down? For how long? I am hoping someone will have a solution that will eliminate the use of not feeling well to avoid responsibility.

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Yes, if it is a continual problem, he has to lay down for rest of the day. If it's almost home time, then he has to stay home tomorrow.

My contract states if they cannot participate in the daily activities, then they may not attend. They are not well enough to play, go outdoors, etc, they are not well enough to attend daycare.

If it's 345 and pick up is at 4pm, either he doesn't come tomorrow or he is not allowed to play in the morning for X mins/hours at all. Everyday until he learns.

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I would leave a portion of the mess that would be his "share" for him to clean up whenever he's "feeling better"--that way he doesn't get out of it at all. Gather all the legos, or blocks, or stuffed animals, or whatever into a pile and that's his job to clean up as soon as he feels well enough to get up. He can't move on to something else until that job is done.

I do this with my DD and it works pretty well.

If it's a specific activity he's avoiding, like snack or music time or circle time or whatever...let him miss out, but start giving him better words to express his lack of desire to participate.

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my DS does this in spurts and I have yet to find his 'currency'. I feel out of options sometimes.

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I do the same as previous posters. Anyone here who is "too sick" or "too tired" to _______ (fill in the blank) will need to go lay down and rest. They ususally get well quick fast LOL. I also find that whenever they agree to go rest without putting up a fight, they usually ARE sick or tired.

If he conveniently feels better immediatey after chores are done, then have him go back and lay down until the next activity is over. Be sure to make a lot of noise and have extra fun so that he can hear you all and know he is missing out.

I also have the other kids stop at a certain point when things are almost clean to "save" some for the person who would not clean when asked. Then that child cannot join us in the next activity until he has done his share.

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Why not instead of putting him in bed, you leave the mess for him to clean up. Then put him in a time out chair to watch you and the other kiddos doing some really fun activity.

If he doesn't get "better" so he can do his part, leave him in the chair until he does. Then have him clean up the afternoon mess by himself, while the parents wait on him.

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I understand where you are coming from but....
my problem with that is if I make him stay home the next day, it effects the parent. There is no way for a parent to have control over the behaviors that occur here in daycare. Yes, they can have a talk with their child, they can even stop buying into it at home but we all know that we teach kids stuff here that they do not do at home so it goes both ways. Bottom line is what exactly is the parent supposed to do about it from their end? They are not at daycare to be involved in what goes on here. They can not intervene on a behavior ocurring here. Even if they tell their child not to do/say/act a certain way, it is just talk, not reinforcment.

Let's say for example I call the parent and have the child picked up or have him stay home the next day. Say he stays in bed the whole next day as if he is sick...isn't that just reinforcing the behavior because after all, he just got a ton of attention for being "sick".

Plus, I don't want to change the parent. NOT my problem....MY problem is the behavior here and what I should do about it. (Like I said, the parent behavior at home is a whole different story).....I gave up trying to change what parents do at home a long time ago. I am only concerned with the behaviors here.



and to SandeeAR, good advice but my space is too small to always leave out the activity until he feels like cleaning up. I have moved to another room and done a super fun activity that he would love and wouldn't ya know, he feels great all of a sudden. Cleaned up and came to join us...this has just been the daily routine for over a week now and frankly I think he is enjoying the attention he is getting for the whole thing. When we went outside this morning, I had him sit next to me while the others played because I told him it wasn't a good idea to run on his foot if it was hurting. He just seemed to think it was an opportunity to sit by me and chat in a one on one conversation. Like I said, I think he is enjoying the attention.

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Amem, Parents are only going to do what they want. Most think their way is the only way. We as DCP aren't always right and our ways aren't the only way. However, we are dealing with a large group of children, all of ages closer than what the parents have, even with they have 3 or 4 kids.

We have to do what works for the GROUP, not just what works for the child.

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Yes sorry, the staying home would be the last resort should the other methods not work. I agree with you about the behaviour being a daycare issue, not a home issue. But you mentioned you know the parents give in. So it is their issue as well. They are reinforcing it, and he is now pulling that act on you. If you know they are doing their part to deal with the issue, and the child is still acting out on it, that's another story, and the parents do not need to be involved. I just know, I never did bad things on the chance that my dad would find out! So if I was going to be made to stay home, dad would certainly find out, and there would be a consequence.

I do the saving the mess thing. But sometimes, as an example, if it's playdough, you cannot leave it sitting out for half an hour, or 2 hours waiting for him to put it away. Same with paints, etc. Often though, I can't stand looking at blocks, lego, etc spread all over my floor (I do not have a big house, or a toy room), so I'll end up cleaning it up so that I can vacuum or whatever. If it's close to home time, I would then carry forward to the next day at the start of the day.

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This is exactly what I would do, too. Whatever activity he is trying to avoid, save it for him when he "feels better".

It sounds like maybe he is having a hard time with transitions? What I will usually do is make "an exciting announcement" about 5 minutes before we start a new activity. And then when the 5 minutes is up, I say "Hey everyone, guess what time it is?" and they all get to yell "Time for CLEANUP!" or whatever the activity is. That way they know what is coming and feel more in control over their activities.

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well, if your too sick to play then you get to lay down till someone comes and gets you. So I would tell him that he can lay there till its time to go home. Leaving the mess out just doesn't work here because the other kids would clean it up. So I would let them lay down for the rest of the day. Couple times of laying down and he'll get the hint.

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We call it a dish pan belly ache. And I let them rest and everyone else move to a new activity. I tell them when they feel better they can rejoin the group. When they say they are better they clean everyones mess and then rejoin us. My cousin used to have a belly ache when it was time to do dishes,... So dishpan belly ache was born.

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ditto....leave a share of the mess for him to clean....sick, hurt, sad, happy or whatever, you still have to be responsible for your actions.

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I do this to!! Have a dkg4 that pulled this on me a couple of weeks ago, I put her on her nap mat and told her to tell me when she felt better. Yep! In seconds she was totally healed!! I still had her lay there 15 min. longer just to make sure.

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I agree, make him lay down and leave some of the mess for him to clean up.

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The "I'm too sick" and "I'm too tired" bit doesn't work with me at all. It's funny...kids can be playing and having a good old time, but then when clean up time is mentioned, all of a sudden, the kid is too tired to help pick up or too sick to help pick up. My response is always "I understand that you're tired, but you still have to help pick up the toys since you helped take them out". Any further arguing results in the kid not getting to play with the toys for a while. The same goes with eating. On days where we have a special holiday snack, if a child won't eat their lunch, then they can't have the special treat. Otherwise, there would be a lot of "I'm too full" responses that would magically be gone when it was time to eat the holiday snack.

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we do a clean up song...makes it more fun
Clean up,clean up... everyone do their share
repeat....
I give the kids sections to clean, when they have a specific area/toys they do much better and arent so overwhelmed by the big picture.
If they can't help do their share and make up excuses I put them in time out, they will learn real quick to get with the program!

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One of our songs in preschool was "This is the way we pick up the toys, pick up the toys, pick up the toys. This is the way we pick up the toys until they're put away" to the song of "The Wheels on the bus"

It's really easy to make up different songs and the kids in preschool really liked this. I agree with many PP about A. "If you're sick you need to lay down for the rest of the day" and B. Keep some toys out until he picks them up and he can't join the activity until he does so and C. teach him different words to use if he truly doesn't like an activity.

We have two kids who always need to use the bathroom during clean up time and when most of the toys are put away and the other children are waiting for lunch/eating lunch these two must finish picking up the room while the others get to eat. Sometimes they stand there for five minutes and try talking to us, but soon enough they're picking up and get the "Good Job, Thank you for helping. I really appreciate it. Are you ready for lunch?"

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So here it is. The child is being a brat. You dont have to put up with that. I'm sure you have other kids there you have to tend to. If this is impeding normal daycare function, then this child will just have to stay home until he can participate like everyone. And if he parents can't cope or fix this problem, then its time to make out a termination letter! Some daycare providers put up with a lot of unecessary BS!

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Too tired, too sick , to this or that you go to bed. Sorry, but kids who don't listed don't get to have any fun.

I have a DCK like this to the T....OMG it's nuts. I live right by the fire station and I tell them oh it sounds like an emergency guess Ill have to call the ambulance to come take you away.

LOL Typing it, it sounds mean, never saw it as mean, was just responding with something silly, because they are stating something silly.

I am lucky that my DCP is on board with me and will not buy into it at all.

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I have one that started something similar. He's 4 and constantly tells me he's tired and it always happens to be when I say it's time to clean up. I get the cot out and telling him to lay down. The rest of the kids clean up but leave some for him. Then we move on to another activity and he isn't allowed to join until he cleans up his part.
Today we were cleaning up to go outside. He still insisted on being too tired to clean up and refused to clean up the few toys that the other kids left as his share. His face lit up and he thought he won when I told him to get his shoes on. When we got outside I had him sit in a chair because he was tired. Of course he tells me he's not tired anymore. So sad too bad. You were too tired to help your friends clean up then you're too tired to play outside. I felt super mean today making him miss outside time but it worked. As soon as we got back inside he rushed to clean up because I threatened to have him sit for our afternoon outside time too if not. He's a tough kid to break but eventually he'll get it...I hope.

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I cannot force them to clean up. But I can STOP them from doing anything else.

Me: "Ok, everyone, let's clean up so we can go bake/outside/do a craft/etc."
Kid: "My head hurts. I can't clean up."
Me: "Ok Kid. Get a nap mat and go lay on the sideline there."

Other kids and I clean up. We move onto next activity. "Kid" CANNOT participate. He will come outside and sit at the table. He can watch everyone bake and watch them eat the muffins they worked on. He can lay there while we do a craft and explain to mom/dad why he doesn't have one at the end of the day.

The day STOPS for that child the moment they STOP participating in their day. I want people who are active in their lives, not lazy lumps. If it is close to pickup time, the STOP continues into the following morning.

In order to continue with the day, the child needs to decide to help the group. He could wipe the table after snack, put away the books after story time, set the table for lunch, or offer to clean up. I will direct the child to do these things and remind him that he won't do anything until he has helped the group.

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Gotta love it when these older threads get pulled back up again.

So, Blackcat, how did you end up working this out?

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My DD,4, seems to be the only one I have that has trouble ever cleaning up. I either tell her that if mommy has to clean up they are going in a trash bag and into the garbage. clearly that won't work with the dcks.

With the daycare I normally say "Who wants to (name of next activity)?" When they all get excited and say "I do!" ...I say okay well we have to clean up this mess first. If they don't help clean up they don't get to do the next thing and can go lay down and rest while everyone else is having fun. Repeat. They will catch on eventually.

I would never ever send a child home who was just doing it for attention. That would just fuel the behavior and they would continue in it as a way to just get to go home.

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oops...didn't even pay attention to the date!

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If he isn't wanting to pick up and laying him down isn't really a consequence, making him sit and watch the other kids play should do it.

Everytime he doesn't want to clean up, he gets to sit out the next activity. Find him a chair, mat or rug and he can watch you and the other kids play.

Mix up the activities and don't tell him what's planned.

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I have two 3.5 year olds currently, dd and dcb. They BOTH pull the I'm hurt/sick/etc.

I started telling them, "Oh I am so sorry you are hurt/sick/etc. We better get you to your bed so you can rest and get all better. If you are too hurt today then you need to sleep so your body can heal."

They always feel better instantly for some reason

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In answer to your complaint. It is your fault for allowing it to get so far. Nip it in the bud. if you have a child that has to be carried into daycare by a spoiling parent because his leg hurts, well you have to tell the parent" he cant walk in on his own and is claiming he is hurt, then he cannot come to daycare, take your child back home and bring him back when he is ready to walk on his own. This will send a message to the parent and hopefully stop the bratty syndrome that this child has. I do not allow that behavior in my daycare, I stop it the very first time it happens. The parents allow or aid to the brat syndrome at home, and expect us to put up with it. Not going to happen with me, and should not happen with you. If you allow this and then cry out because you dont know what to do, its nobody else's fault but your own!

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If he pretends to be ill, he is separated from the other kids and has to lie down...all day...

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Wow! Old post.... I had to re-read a couple times and think back to who I was talking about.

Anyways, I did solve the issue by doing what other posters suggested. The minute he tried to say "I don't feel good" or whatever othe excuse he used, he had to immediately go lie down. He stayed lying down and rested the whole day (besides lunch time) and was not allowed to do anything besides rest.

I told him I was sorry he felt sick and that kids who didn't feel good should rest. He tried to tell me sometime during the day that he felt better and was ready to get up but I just kept telling him that just to be sure, he needed to stay lying down. He came to lunch and ate but he had to immediately go back and rest more as soon as he was done eating.

Later in the day, the other kids went out to play and he thought he was going too but I had him stay lying down while I went out with the other kids. (I sat on the front deck so I could leave the door open and have him in sight) and the other kids played in the front yard. They made lots of noise laughing and playing and of course DCB asked again if he could get up and go out since he now felt better but I said "Maybe tomorrow".

He came back the next day and has never once tried to tell me he didn't feel good or was sick since. Obviously being left out for the whole day is what made the difference. Lying down for a little while only made things worse so I decided to go with the whole day as I knew even he (my most strong willed DCK) would soon give in.....

I still have him and he is an absolutely fabulous kid!!! I will miss him when he heads off to school this fall.

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Yes, it IS my fault. MY fault for caring about a child who was crying out for attention. My fault for caring about the emotional needs of a child. A 3.5 yr old child. Someone who is not capable of understanding exactly how the world works yet and doesn't understand how to appropriately ask for attention so instead uses what he does know, even if it wasn't the right thing.

I did more than just have him lie down for the whole day as I did discuss things with him about saying he was sick when it wasn't true etc. I happen to have a very real concern and a very real relationship with a child.

So yes, thank you very much, it IS my fault. MY fault he is an adorable little boy who has the sweetest smile and the most loving nature in the world. It IS my fault he has now learned to ask for the things he needs (emotional and otherwise) by using real words and not excuses. It IS my fault that he has learned to have a real relationship with other human beings without having to use false pretenses to make someone care. It IS my fault that he has learned a prosocial behavior just as it IS my fault that he has also learned that certain behaviors have certain consequences.

So yeah, he IS a great little boy and if that is MY fault, then I will gladly take the blame!!!

I would hardly call this bratty behavior

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I had one that did that occasionally and I left some things out for him to intentionally pick up when he felt better. The rest of us would go about our fun and whenever he felt "better" he could finish his responsibility and only then could he join us. Nipped it in the bud quickly.

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I don't know what's worse, thinking you have solved the problem by using "child abuse" tactics, or thinking the child has learned his lesson. If CCL knew that you were keeping a child isolated from everything that was going on in the daycare, by having him lay on a mat all day. you should have your license revoked. As a parent I would check into your so called "I care" tactics. Any child will always resort back to whatever he knows will work as it has in the past when the occasion arises. This is just a temporary fix. But then again it's providers like you who try to use cereal box psychology to "think" they are solving the problems, and then when it happens again and you get rid of the child, they get passed on to us and the vicious cycle starts all over again. You will always have those problems because you really do not know how to handle them without involving forums and help chats. thank goodness I have well behaved kids in my center and parents as well, only because I know how to take control head on. After 26 years I think I should!!

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Can you tell me how you would have handled this situation? I am always open to other ideas..

Thanks

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And before you start getting all offended and defensive, think about it< if you don't want people writing to you about your idiotic topics, then stop posting your s**t on here. I will not be back in this stupid forum to read your idiotic makes no sense response.GET A LIFE!!!!!

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I would hardly call it child abuse tactics! LOL!!!!

It happened to be a plan that his mother and I worked out together to address the issue. I don't know, I guess I am funny like that and choose to work with the parents rather than "taking control head on".

But I suppose that was not a smart thing to do since his mother happens to have a cereal box psychology degree and is a licensed child behavioral specialist.

Also it would be a good idea to FULLY read the posts since this was last year and it wasn't a temporary fix as the child NEVER did that again and is still with me. I don't simply term any family that has a child who has an issue, instead I choose to work with family and find a solution that does work.

But hey, despite a degree (well two actually, but only one that is ECE related) WONDERFUL families and daycare kids, as well as two decades in this business...what do I know?!?!

Next time I will ask you since you seem to have ALL the answers!!!

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Yes please do ask. I will be more than happy to oblige!

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Yes I at least have all the answers I need to run my business effortlessly with 26 years under my belt and not two but three Masters, yes I may very well have the answers!!

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Awesome!!!

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Very interesting-3 masters degrees and you still do childcare for a living. If I had that kind of education you bet I would be using them outside of my home. I would be out in the world working with children, not just the few inside my home. Seems so many more would benefit from someone that has that kind of knowledge.

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Hey - don't I know you? Yep, I'm sure of it - you were on the Hansen Files a couple of weeks ago .

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I do work outside my home and have people running my business for me. So you see I am very versatile. I am very lucky to have three very lucrative businesses in the "outside world"
as well as a Preschool Center. So yes thank you for your concern about putting my 3 Master's to work. I'm doing very well. Better than you will ever know! You people should save your comments until you know all the facts!

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indeed!! Indeed!!!

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2 things... TROLL being one of them and if you're so smart, why don't you register? being the other one...

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So that's where I know you from!!!

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I thought but didn't say, so thanks for doing it silver!

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unregistered.... I know a lot of us on here get offended when someone attacks us in a way like you have, because we are all looking for help and support.

I asked you how you would have take care of this matter, because I am genuinely wanting to know how would you handle a child like this? Maybe instead of putting us all down, you could share some of your wisdom with us...

thank you

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ladies....lets me nice....just because this person is attacking us, does not mean we should stoop to their level and do it back... RIGHT...



Trying to be the peace keeper

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Did you not even read Blackcat's post??? Or notice how old this post is??? He learned his lesson in one day and was a model child after that! One she built a wonderful, open, trusting relationship with!

I am so tired of the the "don't look wrong at little Billy or you'll damage him" crowd. It's why we have hundreds of thousands of selfish, unruly children running around.

Because some people think putting a child to bed is abusive. Geesh! Instead of spending weeks and weeks working with the child (which is what you would have done I suspect)...it was all solved in a few hours.

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Sorry to change my tone for a moment, but I asked nicely two times what the unregistered would do in this situation with a child like this and I got NOTHING....

Hmmm....NO I am sitting here starching my head.

One would think that if you have 3 masters degrees, you should be able to offer us something?????

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Well while you are "starching" your head. I am tending to my corporate obligations other than sitting in a home in my sweats with a bunch of screaming g kids.

(I am omitting the rest of this diatribe - Admin)

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Oh I understand you are busy, but it seemed like you had plenty of time answer everyone else post but mine. I guess you only will respond if it allows you to put everyone or anyone down.

that's ok. I just wont respond to someone like this...

Again this form is to helpful, not put people down. IF that is all you intend to do, please leave. thanks

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Michael.


can we stop approving these threads? I don't think that its right that we allow someone to just come on here and belittle everyone. That's not what this site is intended for. Its straight name calling and just being MEAN....

I am not going to read anymore after I post this, but NONE Of what the unregistered is posting has ANYTHING to do with child care...

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Michael, other mods...whaddya think? ban that IP? This is getting VERY trolly...

There are three posts I'm not approving because I'm not sure I should. THey serve NO purpose whatsoever (and one is downright offensive as far as I can tell).

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and troll-y even...I don't want to insult the mode of transportation :P

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Although I don't like feeding trolls, I am going to toss this out there...these are both the same unreg poster that keeps causing trouble lower down. I find it sad that the same person with "3 Master's degrees" and thinks that making a "tired" child sit out is "abuse" is so willing and free to call a child a brat for behaving in a perfectly normal fashion.

Shame on you, unregistered. Shame on you.

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Well, now, aren't you all that?!

Gee, I'd say I worked at what I have now too, as have all of these other fine providers. In fact, many of us have a degree, we all own a home business where we get to be at home with our own children day in and day out, which in and of itself is worth FAR MORE than the 6 figure salary I bring home every year. I don't have a corporate boss to answer too, I don't have to sit behind a desk getting larger and weaker by the minute and I don't have to brown nose anyone to get ahead. Oh, yes, I have the luxury car, two in fact, a beautiful home AND I vacation in beach front home at least once a month while I visit my daughter at the University.

ALL of that and I would MUCH RATHER hang out with all the cool peeps here and provide AWESOME Early Care and Educations services for children than ever even meet the likes of you.

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I am getting mulitple IP from both Missouri and California. I am going to read through this thread and decide.....yeah, ok she-beast is banned.

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She beast? Michael, you ROCK!!!!!!!!!!!

If there are multiple IP addresses, its probably because she's jetsetting between her lucrative businesses in the corporate world!

Ok I'm done now....

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