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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Jekyll/Hyde Three Year Old?? (Long...)
Hunni Bee 05:13 AM 03-27-2011
I have a 3yo boy in my class, he'll be four in May...he's been with me over a year.

Some background on him: he lives with his mom, 5yo sister (who is also in care) and mother's live-in boyfriend, who the child identifies as his dad. Child's father was killed in a robbery while the sister was at home. 3yo was a toddler at the time. When children were first enrolled last year, mom was seemed depressed and had a hard time caring for the children...dcb would often show up wearing disgusting pull-ups and was not very clean. On some days, she would drop dcb off and be very friendly and talkative, other days she would simply let the children in and leave. She has seemed happier lately and her boyfriend has become very active in the children's lives.

The first 3 months I had dcb, he was a joy. His sister was as well, and still is. Then dcb began to have violent tantrums...and I mean turn violent at the drop of a hat. He would repeatedly hit the other children and then hit/kick/scratch me when I would attempt redirect him. He would scream for 30 minutes at a time, then stop and go on about his day like nothing ever happened. He follows no directions when I give them. His parents were and still are very supportive of me and if he was having a really bad day, they'd come and pick him up...This has gone on for the last 9 or 10 months or so, he'll have a good couple of weeks out of the blue where he follows directions, no hitting, etc...then he goes back to his usual behavior.

His sudden change of moods and behavior is what concerns me most. He'll hit and scratch me repeatedly, and then cling me to me and refuse to let me put him down the next minute. He'll be playing one minute and throwing the toys and hitting the next. I'll give directions (Put on your coat.) and he'll scream "No!!!" and then out of the corner of my eye, I'll see him putting on his coat, and if I say "thank you for putting on your coat", he'll take it off.

He has to have 100% of my attention all the time, and he'll do anything to get it...climb tables, break things, hurt himself intentionally. A couple weeks ago, he had a tantrum when I had him stop painting because he kept squeezing the paint (black) out of a sponge and letting it run down his arm and onto the floor, after being shown how to use the sponge and asked not to do that. He went ballistic, so I removed him so that he could calm down...he removed all his clothing and urinated on the floor.

I really don't know how to handle him...he falls asleep in my lap every naptime because he CANNOT fall asleep on his cot and he is highly disruptive during nap and is very cranky if he doesnt nap. I love him to death, but he's draining me...

I know it seems like I am constantly posting about children with problems in my class....and thats because I am. My center takes any child...especially children with behavior problems and one's that have been "let go" from other centers for whatever reason. My director likes to think she is helping by doing this, but she doesnt think of the strain it puts on the teachers...I think fully 1/3 of my class has some sort of behavioral issue and some are developmentally delayed. Terming is NOT an option...thats a really a four-letter word for my director, she would keep the child with her all day rather than lose the income...The child she supposedly "termed" earlier this month is still there.

I really value you guys' advice
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nannyde 08:07 AM 03-27-2011
When termining isn't an option there really isn't much you can do. There aren't any techniques we could come up with that you haven't used in your bag of survival tricks.

The point has to come where the money for the child isn't enough to cover the expenses the child's behavior cost the center. That will most likely be when the child hurts another child and that child's parents give the center an ultimatum. Either their money or the money from the violent kids parents.

Sometimes it comes to the owners when there are actual medical bills to pay or a huge stampede of workers that refuse to care for the child. As long as you are willing to go into work every day and are willing to one to one him plus care for the other kids she will gladly accept your offer.

The idea that she is doing it to help the families who have violent kids is very silly. It's a nice PR thing to say but I don't believe it for a minute. She would be better off to just say the truth: She wants the money and as long as she doesn't have to pay anything out for that decision she will continue to take the money.

Your estimation of a third of the kids being troubled is about right. I think that nowadays that's a pretty good estimation of what most group care situations look like. Ten years ago it would have been maybe one in ten. IMHO that percent is rising and it's going to increase dramatically in the next five years.
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Hunni Bee 09:51 AM 03-27-2011
Originally Posted by nannyde:
Your estimation of a third of the kids being troubled is about right. I think that nowadays that's a pretty good estimation of what most group care situations look like. Ten years ago it would have been maybe one in ten. IMHO that percent is rising and it's going to increase dramatically in the next five years.

Do you think that's because group care probably doesnt work? For kids with behavior problems, I am sure it doesnt work...unless the caregiver/child ratio is very low. Since most centers, for financial reasons, operate at max ratios...that's pretty much out of the question.

The child who was supposed to be termed, group care certainly doesnt work for him. I communicated this to anybody who would listen, and finally after he had hurt just about every child in the room, he was removed and placed in another class. His mother asked for some time to locate other care for him, but its been three weeks and I think both she and my director have mutually "forgotten" about it. I have stated that if he is placed back with me, I will resign and I intend to do so.
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momatheart 10:06 AM 03-27-2011
Originally Posted by Hunni Bee:
Do you think that's because group care probably doesnt work? For kids with behavior problems, I am sure it doesnt work...unless the caregiver/child ratio is very low. Since most centers, for financial reasons, operate at max ratios...that's pretty much out of the question.

The child who was supposed to be termed, group care certainly doesnt work for him. I communicated this to anybody who would listen, and finally after he had hurt just about every child in the room, he was removed and placed in another class. His mother asked for some time to locate other care for him, but its been three weeks and I think both she and my director have mutually "forgotten" about it. I have stated that if he is placed back with me, I will resign and I intend to do so.
I work in a center and I have seen my share of bad behaivors as well. MY director knows how hard it is on staff and would do what she could to help out. Has your director made any attempt to tell mom to take him into the dr to rule out anything medical regarding this child. I believe that is one of the first things that should be done.
Then from the there the dr can make other medical referals. Something is not right with this little guy. I sure hope mom starts taking some steps to resolved this.
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nannyde 10:22 AM 03-27-2011
Originally Posted by Hunni Bee:
Do you think that's because group care probably doesnt work? For kids with behavior problems, I am sure it doesnt work...unless the caregiver/child ratio is very low. Since most centers, for financial reasons, operate at max ratios...that's pretty much out of the question.

The child who was supposed to be termed, group care certainly doesnt work for him. I communicated this to anybody who would listen, and finally after he had hurt just about every child in the room, he was removed and placed in another class. His mother asked for some time to locate other care for him, but its been three weeks and I think both she and my director have mutually "forgotten" about it. I have stated that if he is placed back with me, I will resign and I intend to do so.
Yes I think we have an ever growing population of babies, toddlers, and preschoolers who need an adult with them who doesn't have to consider anything but the child, (including themselves.) If a child needs moment to moment happiness in order to not go into rage then there can't be anything or anybody that needs to be considered except for that child. You still can't avoid the rage completely because the child will put itself into danger and have to be told no but having nothing but immediate safety in between them and their happiness will net you the best behavior the child will willingly do.

The reason the switch has worked out so far is the kid would have a honeymoon period where the newness of the room, teachers, toys, and other kids will keep him happy moment to moment. Once that wears off (usually within a few days to a week) then he will need to strike out and start harming each kid one by one and burn out the staff one by one. That takes a few weeks.

A change of scenery buys the owner a few more weeks of salary. Eventually the math of him needing one to one minute to minute happiness will work it's way into her group numbers. She may try putting him back with you once you are rested to buy even more time. If he comes back to you the honeymoon might last a day or two but you will be right back at the same issues much more quickly than a brand new room.
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Hunni Bee 10:47 AM 03-27-2011
Originally Posted by momatheart:
I work in a center and I have seen my share of bad behaivors as well. MY director knows how hard it is on staff and would do what she could to help out. Has your director made any attempt to tell mom to take him into the dr to rule out anything medical regarding this child. I believe that is one of the first things that should be done.
Then from the there the dr can make other medical referals. Something is not right with this little guy. I sure hope mom starts taking some steps to resolved this.
We work very closely with an R&R, and we have resources we can recommend for him. But no, the director hasn't spoken with his mom. The last mom we recommended evaluation to (the mother of the other child I spoke about) agreed and promised to look into it, but never did. We actually can have the child observed and evaluated at the center, but we must have parental consent as you know, which we rarely get

What Im doing now is documenting his behavior. From experience, I know that you can give a verbal report of a child's behavior every day, and all you'll get is, "Oh, Im sorry, I hope he/she has a better day tomorrow" or "I will talk to him/her". But when you have a whole list of specific behaviors and situations, it kind of gets more real to them. So Im going to document for a couple weeks, then I'm going to request a conference. Hopefully, that will make a difference.
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momatheart 02:12 PM 03-27-2011
That sounds like a good idea. Now when you document do you put down times? What the child was doing before the out burst? How it was handled? What do you include?
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Hunni Bee 04:49 PM 03-27-2011
Yes, it usually looks like this:

March 28, 2011 10:30 AM

Johnny and Susie were playing with the colored blocks. Johnny told Susie to give him all of the red blocks. Susie said "No, I'm playing with these". Johnny threw the blocks he had been playing with at Susie, and Susie started to cry. Johnny was removed to another room where he could calm down. He kicked the table and screamed for 14 minutes before calming down. Johnny and teacher talked about the situation and Johnny returned to play.

I make sure it has the actual time, what was happened before and after the behavior and as much of the actual language as possible.
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Tags:3 year old, bad behavior, bad behavior - extreme
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