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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>The Parents That Always Spank As A Consequence...
daycare 12:58 PM 10-18-2012
I'll make a really long story short.

One of my DCK age 4.5 just moved on from my program to a head-start. I asked the parents to do this because he is a very intelligent child and I felt as though he could benefit from a program like head-start.

Well I know that parents very well, love them, they are great people and I really miss all of them.

Since august, dcb has been kicked out of school 3 times for different reasons, mostly for hitting. Something that DCB never did here.

DCM and I talk all the time. I know for a fact that DCM uses spanking as her first form of consequence when he acts up. I had talked to mom about it in the past and told her that it was being used too much for reasons that did not warrant it. I also told her that her child also now knows that he can go to daycare or school and that there is no ultimate consequence like spanking there that will ever happen. So now he is running the show at school because he knows that NO one there can spank him.

DCM just asked if I could take him back, which I said yes, because I have never had these issues with DCB. BUT how do I get mom to see that she need to stop the spanking.

How would you help this mom??? Curious to see what your methods are for a kid who is in this kind of situation.
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Country Kids 01:01 PM 10-18-2012
I honestly don't know. You and I have talked on this and I think that is one of my biggest issues. My parents spank but I can't so the kids think they can do whatever here. Time outs really, really don't matter.
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Michael 01:39 PM 10-18-2012
Originally Posted by daycare:
I'll make a really long story short.

One of my DCK age 4.5 just moved on from my program to a head-start. I asked the parents to do this because he is a very intelligent child and I felt as though he could benefit from a program like head-start.

Well I know that parents very well, love them, they are great people and I really miss all of them.

Since august, dcb has been kicked out of school 3 times for different reasons, mostly for hitting. Something that DCB never did here.

DCM and I talk all the time. I know for a fact that DCM uses spanking as her first form of consequence when he acts up. I had talked to mom about it in the past and told her that it was being used too much for reasons that did not warrant it. I also told her that her child also now knows that he can go to daycare or school and that there is no ultimate consequence like spanking there that will ever happen. So now he is running the show at school because he knows that NO one there can spank him.

DCM just asked if I could take him back, which I said yes, because I have never had these issues with DCB. BUT how do I get mom to see that she need to stop the spanking.

How would you help this mom??? Curious to see what your methods are for a kid who is in this kind of situation.
I suspect this child could be gifted. Only when the parents are aware of his higher IQ will they be able to truly manage his needs. The parents will try to force/spank him into being a managable child but he will either rebel or dummy down.

Gifted children's behavior differs from that of their age-mates in the following ways:
We found we were unable to manage our son until we fully understood his situation. We likewise went from daycare to daycare. We finally had him tested with a 164 IQ. This is not bragging. A gifted child is considered handicapped with special needs IMO. They do not fit it and are usually a hindrance to the quality of the class.

I may be off base on the child in the original OP but it never hurts for a family to get the child tested if they suspect he is possibly gifted. It completely changed how we handled hour son's needs. In his early years we were never sure if he would ever fit in or have a normal life. Thankfully he did but it was expensive or time consuming.
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daycare 01:56 PM 10-18-2012
I do feel that this is very possible..I started him when he was 18months old and from the start this child has been over the top smart. I taught him to read at age 2 and could full on write by age 4.

However, I know mom very well and I do not think that she has any patience to deal with him at all. He is the child that will take an inch if you give a mile, but I know this about him and he knows my rules and boundaries therefore I never had these issues. I think his school labeled him the bag kid and now is always getting blamed for everything.
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Michael 02:26 PM 10-18-2012
If his intellectual needs are not adequately cared for it will only get worse. A gifted child needs constant stimulation. That is why our son was on the computer at 2 years old. We only allowed him to use learning programs and had him do chores or homework in order to use it for limited periods. At the time we did not know he was gifted and it seemed the computer was one of the only things that allowed him to learn at the level he wanted. He also loved books and would read constantly.

I hope your child's parents will take his needs seriously. It will make his and thier lives healthier. Here is a link with more info: http://giftedkids.about.com/od/gifte...o_identify.htm
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Country Kids 02:35 PM 10-18-2012
I get the gifted, bored thing but this child also needs to learn that just because they are gifted doesn't give them the right to do this. Imagine walking up to someone in school, hitting them and then saying "Oh, I'm gifted, i can't contol it.".

Also, what do you do with a child that isn't gifted but does this kinda stuff?
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Willow 02:40 PM 10-18-2012
Ultimatum:

"Dcm, I've really grown to care about your kiddo. After some thought I am concerned that if he's struggling in pre-k the way he did, that he's likewise going to struggle when he starts kindy if nothing changes. I think the reason he is acting out is _____(the spanking....being gifted and that inherent part of him not being tended to appropriately....etc.)____. I am willing to continue offering your family care if and *ONLY* if you ____(stop the spanking....stop the threats of spanking....look into some alternative enrichment programs or evaluations)_____.

Ultimately the decision is yours but those are my thoughts. I hope we can talk about them more if you have any questions about where I'm coming from and then start working together to get kiddo to a better happier and healthier place in the long run.

Sincerely,
daycare
"
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daycare 02:46 PM 10-18-2012
Originally Posted by Michael:
If his intellectual needs are not adequately cared for it will only get worse. A gifted child needs constant stimulation. That is why our son was on the computer at 2 years old. We only allowed him to use learning programs and had him do chores or homework in order to use it for limited periods. At the time we did not know he was gifted and it seemed the computer was one of the only things that allowed him to learn at the level he wanted. He also loved books and would read constantly.

I hope your child's parents will take his needs seriously. It will make his and thier lives healthier. Here is a link with more info: http://giftedkids.about.com/od/gifte...o_identify.htm
awesome Michael...thank you so much for your input.....I will definitly share this with his parents. I will also look into it myself...
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itlw8 02:51 PM 10-18-2012
If he is gifted headstart may not be the program for him. He is likely bored thus causing problems. Normally Head Start is only for children that are at risk. both because of poverty and because they are behind. If you put a giftd child into a classroom of children that are behind developmentally you have problems.

no idea how you solve the parent problem except give them articles to read on the subject.
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daycare 02:54 PM 10-18-2012
Originally Posted by Willow:
Ultimatum:

"Dcm, I've really grown to care about your kiddo. After some thought I am concerned that if he's struggling in pre-k the way he did, that he's likewise going to struggle when he starts kindy if nothing changes. I think the reason he is acting out is _____(the spanking....being gifted and that inherent part of him not being tended to appropriately....etc.)____. I am willing to continue offering your family care if and *ONLY* if you ____(stop the spanking....stop the threats of spanking....look into some alternative enrichment programs or evaluations)_____.

Ultimately the decision is yours but those are my thoughts. I hope we can talk about them more if you have any questions about where I'm coming from and then start working together to get kiddo to a better happier and healthier place in the long run.

Sincerely,
daycare
"
I am soooo on board with what you are saying. what I dont get is why didnt I ever have these issues or any issues with DCB??

yes i teach a program and he excelled in it like no tomorrow. I allowed for free choice, free play and for every child to learn to make their own decisions. I am shocked that he is being kicked out of school, but at the same time I am not.

I did tell DCM he can stay with me, only under the agreement that she learns how to deal with him MY way. Which for the last 3 years has worked. She said she is open to it and I belive her becuase she has never lied to me before and she now realizes that there is a problem.

I just still cant wrap my finger on why he is having so many issues at his new school????
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daycare 02:56 PM 10-18-2012
Originally Posted by itlw8:
If he is gifted headstart may not be the program for him. He is likely bored thus causing problems. Normally Head Start is only for children that are at risk. both because of poverty and because they are behind. If you put a giftd child into a classroom of children that are behind developmentally you have problems.

no idea how you solve the parent problem except give them articles to read on the subject.
its actually a very expensive private catholic school. ANd none of the issues are during class time. Once again its another episode of he falls apart when He is in free play, recess or during lunch time. In class time he is the best student there. The mom tells me she feels so conflicted because of this...
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Country Kids 02:59 PM 10-18-2012
Originally Posted by daycare:
I am soooo on board with what you are saying. what I dont get is why didnt I ever have these issues or any issues with DCB??

yes i teach a program and he excelled in it like no tomorrow. I allowed for free choice, free play and for every child to learn to make their own decisions. I am shocked that he is being kicked out of school, but at the same time I am not.

I did tell DCM he can stay with me, only under the agreement that she learns how to deal with him MY way. Which for the last 3 years has worked. She said she is open to it and I belive her becuase she has never lied to me before and she now realizes that there is a problem.

I just still cant wrap my finger on why he is having so many issues at his new school????
Are you ready for this-I have a kiddo that goes to headstart and every day is in some sort of trouble. Goes for some help in areas but over all is smart as the next kids. I have never had one ounce of trouble from this child. Always polite and if they do do something is perfectly fine with the correction and then moves on.

I'm starting to wonder about this as this child is now having phone calls being placed to parents and notes almost every day but no problems here. I was shocked when I found out there were problems happening at school.

Is headstart changing in some way and kids are acting out more?
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daycare 03:05 PM 10-18-2012
Originally Posted by Country Kids:
Are you ready for this-I have a kiddo that goes to headstart and every day is in some sort of trouble. Goes for some help in areas but over all is smart as the next kids. I have never had one ounce of trouble from this child. Always polite and if they do do something is perfectly fine with the correction and then moves on.

I'm starting to wonder about this as this child is now having phone calls being placed to parents and notes almost every day but no problems here. I was shocked when I found out there were problems happening at school.

Is headstart changing in some way and kids are acting out more?
has he also been with you for a long time?

I think that some of this is also the fact that it is a new place for him and he is trying to see what he can do to push the limits??? He is the kind of kid that if you let him he could go nuts, but he knows that miss N. does not deal with that type of behavior. Perhaps they don't know what is expected of them with their behavior at school??

it makes me nervous that the kids are not going to transition well from my house to school, even though those in the past have..
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Country Kids 03:21 PM 10-18-2012
Originally Posted by daycare:
has he also been with you for a long time?

I think that some of this is also the fact that it is a new place for him and he is trying to see what he can do to push the limits??? He is the kind of kid that if you let him he could go nuts, but he knows that miss N. does not deal with that type of behavior. Perhaps they don't know what is expected of them with their behavior at school??

it makes me nervous that the kids are not going to transition well from my house to school, even though those in the past have..
No they have been with me awhile (6 months) and second year with HS. Same everything for there, teacher, classmates, helpers, etc.
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Willow 05:03 PM 10-18-2012
Originally Posted by daycare:

I just still cant wrap my finger on why he is having so many issues at his new school????
Ratios?

A home daycare provider rarely has as many kids in their charge as a teacher in a headstart program does.

It can be tough for many kiddos to adjust to not having as much one on one time. Perhaps he is merely testing the waters more to see what he can get away with because he realizes his teacher cannot keep as close an eye on him as you have been able to?

A sort of cry for attention - PAY ATTENTION TO MEEeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!


When he's back with you maybe emphasize personal responsibility for his actions. If he is playing independently very well praise him for that...."Johnny, I'm really proud that you are able to play with the cars by yourself in a very nice way" or after watching him interact from a distance "Johnny, the way you were just playing with Billy was great! You were so kind to him, you were sharing nice, good job!"

I'd probably go overkill with the feedback for awhile so that he learns that even when he thinks no one is watching they actually are. It'll drive home that he needs to behave even when an adult isn't right there to guide him and his actions.
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daycare 05:13 PM 10-18-2012
Originally Posted by Willow:
Ratios?

A home daycare provider rarely has as many kids in their charge as a teacher in a headstart program does.

It can be tough for many kiddos to adjust to not having as much one on one time. Perhaps he is merely testing the waters more to see what he can get away with because he realizes his teacher cannot keep as close an eye on him as you have been able to?

A sort of cry for attention - PAY ATTENTION TO MEEeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!


When he's back with you maybe emphasize personal responsibility for his actions. If he is playing independently very well praise him for that...."Johnny, I'm really proud that you are able to play with the cars by yourself in a very nice way" or after watching him interact from a distance "Johnny, the way you were just playing with Billy was great! You were so kind to him, you were sharing nice, good job!"

I'd probably go overkill with the feedback for awhile so that he learns that even when he thinks no one is watching they actually are. It'll drive home that he needs to behave even when an adult isn't right there to guide him and his actions.
well I thought that this could be the case too, however, he has 5 teachers in a class room of only 18 kids. 3 are there at all times and two are assistance... I asked mom this question already.

However, that does not mean that he is not doing it for attention.




Update....so DCB was dropped off with me about 3pm so that mom could finish her work at her job. I see a whole different very mean child.... I am so saddened by this....what happened to him? ugh
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daycare 05:19 PM 10-18-2012
Originally Posted by daycare:
well I thought that this could be the case too, however, he has 5 teachers in a class room of only 18 kids. 3 are there at all times and two are assistance... I asked mom this question already.

However, that does not mean that he is not doing it for attention.




Update....so DCB was dropped off with me about 3pm so that mom could finish her work at her job. I see a whole different very mean child.... I am so saddened by this....what happened to him? ugh
wanted to also add, he is an only child.... so again center of attention....
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Willow 05:25 PM 10-18-2012
Originally Posted by daycare:
Update....so DCB was dropped off with me about 3pm so that mom could finish her work at her job. I see a whole different very mean child.... I am so saddened by this....what happened to him? ugh
Ugh, that must sting.....


Could it have been the anxiety of all the changes? Maybe he had a tougher time than most uprooting what he knew and starting somewhere new?

Also, I hate to bring up the stigma of kiddos in Headstart but around here (not all but) many of the kids that go have significant behavioral problems. Perhaps that was the case in regards to the kids in his class and it's rubbed off on him?


Either way, I feel for him, and you now too. I wish you luck helping him find his way back to a better place. Sounds like mom is on board so that should help tremendously.
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Chipmunk 09:32 PM 10-23-2012
I'm guessing that you were better able to differentiate his needs and provide enough physical activity as well as mental stimulation to keep him happy, safe and learning. It sounds like, gifted or not, he's a MORE child. Always needs more. More attention, more stimulation, more fun, all the time, nonstop. And at your house previously, he was getting that.

Give him a few days to readjust to being in your care.

And ask the mom what she plans to do when he's bigger and stronger than she is and spanking doesn't work anymore - she won't have any way to get through to him, because she hasn't laid that groundwork/foundation now.

I think Dr. Sears has a Parenting the Gifted Child book that may work wonders for DCB, and DCM.
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