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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Your Thoughts On The Government Shutdown
Lucy 12:38 PM 10-02-2013
I had a thread about how the shutdown affected one of my families, and I asked that it not be turned into a political discussion. Therefore, I have started this thread so that you CAN get political.

Go..........
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Blackcat31 12:51 PM 10-02-2013
My thoughts?



something like that anyways...
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MyAngels 01:12 PM 10-02-2013
I think what I've always thought about Congress - at least half the members should be former daycare providers. After all, who better to teach others how to learn to work and play well with others.
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butterfly 01:16 PM 10-02-2013
Originally Posted by MyAngels:
I think what I've always thought about Congress - at least half the members should be former daycare providers. After all, who better to teach others how to learn to work and play well with others.
there is ALOT of truth to that statement!

I don't really follow politics so I can't speak intellgently about this topic. It is a shame that it has to come to this, seems like someone isn't doing their job the rest of the year if this is the end result.
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Leanna 01:19 PM 10-02-2013
Congressperson...the only job (other than a meteorologist) where you can lie and be wrong all the time and still have a job!!!!!
At least the meteorologists have to show up!
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snbauser 01:49 PM 10-02-2013
I think that our government as a whole has gotten way too full of themselves and have way too much control. Why is it that those elected by The People do not have listen to The People once they are in office? And why is it The People are the ones suffering the consequences of those in office while they still get paid? If you don't agree with Obamacare, then that should be a separate battle. That battle was fought and lost. If they want to change it, then work on bills to change it. They should not be able to shut down the government and effect millions of people because they want to throw a 2 year old temper tantrum because they didn't get their way.
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originalkat 02:30 PM 10-02-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
My thoughts?



something like that anyways...
I couldn't have said it better myself.
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LK5kids 04:39 PM 10-02-2013
My thought is the mega banks and corporations now run this country. They consistently receive corporate welfare and all the other perks of being in power. There is the elite 2% that end up with 85% of the $$$$ and the remaining 98% must live the the 15% that is left.

I don't think it matters if we have a republican or democrat in office. Mega banks (both domestic and foreign) own both parties.

I hope I am wrong....things could get ugly in the not too distant future.
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Michael 04:52 PM 10-02-2013
Originally Posted by Leanna:
Congressperson...the only job (other than a meteorologist) where you can lie and be wrong all the time and still have a job!!!!!
At least the meteorologists have to show up!
Meteorologists cover themselves with "partly cloudy with a chance of rain". Translation= could be sunny, could be rain, could be clouds.

A politician covers themselves with, "its the other party's fault. Think how bad things would be if we didn't fight "them".

They are all the same. Results are what matters and we haven't seen much of that in a while. I say give the Congress to Daycare Providers. They have to balance a budget, take care of cry babies, wipe away wasteful crap. Just what America needs. Then we can have quiet time.
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Lavender 05:00 PM 10-02-2013
I think that politics has become all about power and not about people like it should be. I think that it's sickening to take away the pay of so many, some of whom still have to work despite no pay.
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Sugar Magnolia 05:04 PM 10-02-2013
Originally Posted by Michael:
Meteorologists cover themselves with "partly cloudy with a chance of rain". Translation= could be sunny, could be rain, could be clouds.

A politician covers themselves with, "its the other party's fault. Think how bad things would be if we didn't fight "them".

They are all the same. Results are what matters and we haven't seen much of that in a while. I say give the Congress to Daycare Providers. They have to balance a budget, take care of cry babies, wipe away wasteful crap. Just what America needs. Then we can have quiet time.
Yep..This.

I've got a one word for the situation: RIDICULOUS
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TwinKristi 05:29 PM 10-02-2013
Originally Posted by snbauser:
I think that our government as a whole has gotten way too full of themselves and have way too much control. Why is it that those elected by The People do not have listen to The People once they are in office? And why is it The People are the ones suffering the consequences of those in office while they still get paid? If you don't agree with Obamacare, then that should be a separate battle. That battle was fought and lost. If they want to change it, then work on bills to change it. They should not be able to shut down the government and effect millions of people because they want to throw a 2 year old temper tantrum because they didn't get their way.
This is how I feel as well. Republicans against Obamacare shouldn't shut down the whole gov't and effect all of us. Funny that they still get paid! They shouldn't be paid if they don't pass a budget and shut us down! In CA, if they don't pass a budget, they don't get paid! That's how it should be. There should be some type of consequence for not doing their jobs properly instead of allowing them to have their way when they act like this. It's like negotiating with terrorists. Once you start doing that type of negotiation that's what people choose in the future when they really want their way. I don't blame the President for not negotiating on this because once you do, it sets a precedence and they'll just keep doing this to get their way. Plus... Wasn't this only a 6wk budget or something?
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Bookworm 08:23 PM 10-02-2013
IMO, For the people, By the people doesn't exist. They are only concerned about what in it for me. Now, for the DEMS, Obama could have found a better way to explain the program. I think he thinks that public backlash about shutting down will cause people to jumped to his camp.
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MotherNature 06:44 AM 10-03-2013
I think that the very very slim minority is holding the country hostage because they didn't get their way. The Tea Partiers don't even represent the majority pf the Republican party, & they're obstructing the system because they have been allowed to for a while. People have put up with their craziness for so long they think they can get away with anything. People had to put their foot down & stop them. However, it sucks that so many people have to suffer because of the greed an blind hatred of a few people in the minority. Technically, it's an act of terrorism. To hold the world's economies hostage and threaten to default, tanking everyone's economies along with it as ours is the standard currency used worldwide because you didn't get your way is ludicrous & an act of terrorism. Put on your big kid pants, suck it up, deal, actually WORK on laws and things that will benefit people..your constituents at least, not your corporate donation sources and lobbyists, if not the country as a whole.
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Laurel 10:54 AM 10-03-2013
Originally Posted by MotherNature:
I think that the very very slim minority is holding the country hostage because they didn't get their way. The Tea Partiers don't even represent the majority pf the Republican party, & they're obstructing the system because they have been allowed to for a while. People have put up with their craziness for so long they think they can get away with anything. People had to put their foot down & stop them. However, it sucks that so many people have to suffer because of the greed an blind hatred of a few people in the minority. Technically, it's an act of terrorism. To hold the world's economies hostage and threaten to default, tanking everyone's economies along with it as ours is the standard currency used worldwide because you didn't get your way is ludicrous & an act of terrorism. Put on your big kid pants, suck it up, deal, actually WORK on laws and things that will benefit people..your constituents at least, not your corporate donation sources and lobbyists, if not the country as a whole.
If they do that they won't get re-elected but too bad. I doubt they'll get re-elected this way either. Then again they might. I am an Independent and I definitely would consider voting for someone who actually stood up to the tea partiers and their nonsense.

Oh my, I was trying to resist this thread. So much for that.

Laurel
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Lyss 11:31 AM 10-03-2013
I think its ridiculous! To me it show's our nation's true colors: selfishness and power first regardless of how anyone else is effected. I'm sure all those congressmen that refuse to compromise don't care one shred about all the people suffering, like the DCM that C2C posted about, they just are concerned about getting their way.

Are we going to get a refund on our taxes since we can't use any of the federal services that we're paying for
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Laurel 11:38 AM 10-03-2013
Originally Posted by Lyss:
I think its ridiculous! To me it show's our nations true colors: selfishness and power first regardless of how anyone else is effected.

Are we going to get a refund on our taxes since we can't use any of the federal services that we're paying for
We actually just sent in our last year's taxes (had an extension) and are due a refund. I guess that will be late now. Well for two years prior we didn't get our refund as it was stolen (identity theft) until well after a year after we filed. But, to their credit (and probably the law) we got a $65 check added to it for interest plus our refunds back. This year they gave us a PIN number and supposedly no one can steal it. We'll see!....whenever that may be now.

Sorry, went off on a tangent there...

For some reason I don't think they'll refund any of our taxes for this.

Laurel
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Lucy 11:45 AM 10-03-2013
I've heard that workers might get retro pay when they go back. Do you think they will?
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Lyss 11:47 AM 10-03-2013
Originally Posted by Laurel:
We actually just sent in our last year's taxes (had an extension) and are due a refund. I guess that will be late now. Well for two years prior we didn't get our refund as it was stolen (identity theft) until well after a year after we filed. But, to their credit (and probably the law) we got a $65 check added to it for interest plus our refunds back. This year they gave us a PIN number and supposedly no one can steal it. We'll see!....whenever that may be now.

Sorry, went off on a tangent there...

For some reason I don't think they'll refund any of our taxes for this.

Laurel
Sorry to hear about the identity theft! Scary! I've had that happen, not with my taxes but over $25k in debt accrued in my name. Not fun! Glad you got an interest check too! It seems funny that we're always stunned when our government does something that is actually fair for us

Yeah I'm pretty sure we won't seen any refund but wouldn't that be nice?
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Lyss 11:53 AM 10-03-2013
Originally Posted by Lucy:
I've heard that workers might get retro pay when they go back. Do you think they will?
I doubt it because they have them on furloughs so they aren't working. I think that they should get some sort of retribution for not receiving paychecks on time, don't regular employers get fined if they don't pay employees? Although I'm guessing there is something about this in the contract all federal employees sign when hired
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daycarediva 11:54 AM 10-03-2013
Originally Posted by Michael:
Meteorologists cover themselves with "partly cloudy with a chance of rain". Translation= could be sunny, could be rain, could be clouds.

A politician covers themselves with, "its the other party's fault. Think how bad things would be if we didn't fight "them".

They are all the same. Results are what matters and we haven't seen much of that in a while. I say give the Congress to Daycare Providers. They have to balance a budget, take care of cry babies, wipe away wasteful crap. Just what America needs. Then we can have quiet time.
well said!
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Lucy 11:58 AM 10-03-2013
Originally Posted by Lyss:
I doubt it because they have them on furloughs so they aren't working. I think that they should get some sort of retribution for not receiving paychecks on time, don't regular employers get fined if they don't pay employees? Although I'm guessing there is something about this in the contract all federal employees sign when hired
I heard it on the news on tv last night, then looked it up online this morning.... here's what I read http://www.abc2news.com/dpp/news/nat...after-shutdown

They're trying to pay them retro like they did 17 years ago. I'm just wondering if you guys think it'll actually happen.

Another question I just thought of is, what if they collected unemployment? The DCD in my situation applied for it earlier this week, and there's a one-week waiting period. If the shutdown lasts beyond next week, he'll be collecting unemployment payments. I wonder IF they end up getting retro pay, if there will be a system for deducting any unemployment they received.

What a mess!!!!!
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Laurel 11:59 AM 10-03-2013
Originally Posted by Lyss:
Sorry to hear about the identity theft! Scary! I've had that happen, not with my taxes but over $25k in debt accrued in my name. Not fun! Glad you got an interest check too! It seems funny that we're always stunned when our government does something that is actually fair for us

Yeah I'm pretty sure we won't seen any refund but wouldn't that be nice?
The only thing we had stolen was our refund checks. It was a crime ring in our area and I think other places in the U.S. also. They did try to get into other accounts we had but didn't. I am not yelling but this needs to be in all caps. TWO WORDS....LIFE ALERT. It is cheap and effective. We always get alerted if anyone tries to mess with our accounts.

Yep something fair is always suspected. I suppose it is probably a law though. Not like they wanted too. (Hmmm, I wonder what makes me so cynical? )

That reminds me that one year our power and light company was fair too...well kinda. We had been having power glitches (meaning the power turns off for just a few seconds and then comes back on). Well our central air burnt out because of it. So I had a record of the times of the glitches and sent a letter to the power company. They had us fill out a form and actually took responsibility for it. The only thing was that the AC unit was still under warranty. So the AC company had to give us a new one but the power company paid to have it installed. By rights though, the AC manufacturer shouldn't have had to eat that cost. I was surprised that the power company did anything at all. So you never know what you might get unless you ask.

Laurel
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Laurel 12:02 PM 10-03-2013
Originally Posted by Lyss:
I doubt it because they have them on furloughs so they aren't working. I think that they should get some sort of retribution for not receiving paychecks on time, don't regular employers get fined if they don't pay employees? Although I'm guessing there is something about this in the contract all federal employees sign when hired
My husband works for our county and they have had furlough days in the past because of budget issues (not because of this current federal thing). They don't get paid for those days. This might be different though.

Laurel
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MyAngels 12:08 PM 10-03-2013
Originally Posted by Laurel:
If they do that they won't get re-elected but too bad. I doubt they'll get re-elected this way either.
I was watching someone the other day and they said that one of the reasons the Republicans that are dug in the hardest on the issue of funding the ACA feel that they can hold firm on this is because they are from areas where they are basically untouchable as far as the next term elections go.
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MyAngels 12:28 PM 10-03-2013
Possible progress?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/1...tml?1380739351

Now if Boehner will just get on board.
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Laurel 12:32 PM 10-03-2013
Originally Posted by MyAngels:
I was watching someone the other day and they said that one of the reasons the Republicans that are dug in the hardest on the issue of funding the ACA feel that they can hold firm on this is because they are from areas where they are basically untouchable as far as the next term elections go.
Oh yeah, I think I read that too come to think of it.

Laurel
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JenNJ 12:40 PM 10-03-2013
The whole thing is insane. This shutdown is costing billions per day. Just the national parks alone are a big moneymaker for the govt. Plus I'm bummed my hike is cancelled this weekend.

It isn't about compromise. Its about throwing giant temper tantrums. They are acting like non-verbal toddlers. Their parents should be ashamed. And because of their actions the whole country is punished.

The White House should have done a better job of explaining the ACA. I've seen commercials against it but none explaining it. I have researched it and its still pretty confusing.
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craftymissbeth 12:51 PM 10-03-2013
I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but I'm not sure how I feel about the employees receiving retro pay. Yeah, it's not their fault that they aren't able to work, but why not just let them work if they're going to get paid for it anyway? I guess I just don't understand that perspective at all.
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Lucy 01:17 PM 10-03-2013
Originally Posted by craftymissbeth:
I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but I'm not sure how I feel about the employees receiving retro pay. Yeah, it's not their fault that they aren't able to work, but why not just let them work if they're going to get paid for it anyway? I guess I just don't understand that perspective at all.
It might serve as an economic stimulus. Give them their money so that it goes back into the economy and helps prevent a downturn. If the federal workers can't pay mortgages and stuff, it could cause bad problems! (again )
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butterfly 01:23 PM 10-03-2013
Originally Posted by craftymissbeth:
I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but I'm not sure how I feel about the employees receiving retro pay. Yeah, it's not their fault that they aren't able to work, but why not just let them work if they're going to get paid for it anyway? I guess I just don't understand that perspective at all.
That was my thought to! But I'm quite ignorant with government dealings.
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craftymissbeth 01:26 PM 10-03-2013
Originally Posted by butterfly:
That was my thought to! But I'm quite ignorant with government dealings.
Me too
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craftymissbeth 01:33 PM 10-03-2013
Originally Posted by Lucy:
It might serve as an economic stimulus. Give them their money so that it goes back into the economy and helps prevent a downturn. If the federal workers can't pay mortgages and stuff, it could cause bad problems! (again )
Honestly, it would make more sense (in my puny mind) to just let them keep working and forget the whole shutdown. Also, in any career situation you have to be prepared with an emergency fund. I honestly don't feel bad for people who don't prepare themselves ahead of time for something like this... not necessarily a government shutdown, but for ANY disaster/tragedy/job-loss-of-any-kind. I DO feel bad that they're in this situation and it's ridiculously unnecessary, but retro paying them for work they didn't do simply to stimulate the economy and make sure these people can still pay their bills doesn't make sense.


Now, before anyone freaks out on me for saying all that I want to remind you that I feel terrible for these people... they certainly do not deserve what they are going through and the uncertainty of it all.
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butterfly 01:44 PM 10-03-2013
Originally Posted by craftymissbeth:
Honestly, it would make more sense (in my puny mind) to just let them keep working and forget the whole shutdown. Also, in any career situation you have to be prepared with an emergency fund. I honestly don't feel bad for people who don't prepare themselves ahead of time for something like this... not necessarily a government shutdown, but for ANY disaster/tragedy/job-loss-of-any-kind. I DO feel bad that they're in this situation and it's ridiculously unnecessary, but retro paying them for work they didn't do simply to stimulate the economy and make sure these people can still pay their bills doesn't make sense.


Now, before anyone freaks out on me for saying all that I want to remind you that I feel terrible for these people... they certainly do not deserve what they are going through and the uncertainty of it all.
I totally agree with you!! You won't see any flaming torches coming from me!
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Unregistered 01:45 PM 10-03-2013
Originally Posted by craftymissbeth:
Honestly, it would make more sense (in my puny mind) to just let them keep working and forget the whole shutdown. Also, in any career situation you have to be prepared with an emergency fund. I honestly don't feel bad for people who don't prepare themselves ahead of time for something like this... not necessarily a government shutdown, but for ANY disaster/tragedy/job-loss-of-any-kind. I DO feel bad that they're in this situation and it's ridiculously unnecessary, but retro paying them for work they didn't do simply to stimulate the economy and make sure these people can still pay their bills doesn't make sense.


Now, before anyone freaks out on me for saying all that I want to remind you that I feel terrible for these people... they certainly do not deserve what they are going through and the uncertainty of it all.
I agree with you 100%.

Honestly, I think it is the most stupidest thing they would shut down because they dont want to deal with stupid obamacare! I wouldn't care about Obamacare which I dont agree with. I would be glad Obama will be out within 3 more years anyways!
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Lavender 03:08 PM 10-03-2013
Originally Posted by craftymissbeth:
I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but I'm not sure how I feel about the employees receiving retro pay. Yeah, it's not their fault that they aren't able to work, but why not just let them work if they're going to get paid for it anyway? I guess I just don't understand that perspective at all.
There are many people who are still working but not being paid. My mom is among them. She was even told that they aren't allowed sick days and anyone with leave already approved now loses it.

And yes everyone should be prepared, but life happens. My mom had her entire savings stolen last month. I will help her out in the meantime, but she sure had better be paid for the work she is required to keep doing. There are many people just like her in the country right now.
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Willow 05:02 PM 10-03-2013
I'm glad they're digging their heels in.

If there's anything they should dig their heels in about it SHOULD be against unconstitutional legislation brought forth by arrogant egotistical elected officials.


I'm not happy about a government shut down but something like this needed to happen to wake this country up.

I'm glad at least someone is paying attention and demanding a big fat *NO MORE*

The current administration is completely out of control and needs to be stopped. I think it's the left that's throwing the tantrum because the people are refusing to bend over, not the other way around.....
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Willow 05:06 PM 10-03-2013
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I agree with you 100%.

Honestly, I think it is the most stupidest thing they would shut down because they dont want to deal with stupid obamacare! I wouldn't care about Obamacare which I dont agree with. I would be glad Obama will be out within 3 more years anyways!
Democracy isn't stupid.

It's the very foundation of this country and it's exactly what protects the freedoms we are all entitled to.


This country can't afford and shouldn't accept three more years of bully tactics and constitution stomping.

It's time to bully back since nothing else has worked thus far.
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craftymissbeth 05:07 PM 10-03-2013
Originally Posted by Lavender:
There are many people who are still working but not being paid. My mom is among them. She was even told that they aren't allowed sick days and anyone with leave already approved now loses it.

And yes everyone should be prepared, but life happens. My mom had her entire savings stolen last month. I will help her out in the meantime, but she sure had better be paid for the work she is required to keep doing. There are many people just like her in the country right now.
That's totally different than what I said, though. If she's working she deserves to be paid, of course! What I said in the posts above is that my concern is with those who aren't working getting paid and that it wouldn't make sense to keep them working and then pay them... it just doesn't make sense to me.

And the issue with her savings is different than what I said above. She was prepared and that's great. Exactly what I said everyone should do. I'm sorry she lost it all and on top of that is working w/o pay... that really is sad and I hope everything works out for her in the end.
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craftymissbeth 05:09 PM 10-03-2013
Originally Posted by Willow:
Democracy isn't stupid.

It's the very foundation of this country and it's exactly what protects the freedoms we are all entitled to.


This country can't afford and shouldn't accept three more years of bully tactics and constitution stomping.

It's time to bully back since nothing else has worked thus far.
I completely agree, but at what cost? The bullying back by way of government shutdown is not directly affecting those that issued the shutdown. It's drastically affecting the citizens who rely on those in office to act as our voice, though.
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Willow 05:19 PM 10-03-2013
Originally Posted by JenNJ:
The whole thing is insane. This shutdown is costing billions per day. Just the national parks alone are a big moneymaker for the govt. Plus I'm bummed my hike is cancelled this weekend.

It isn't about compromise. Its about throwing giant temper tantrums. They are acting like non-verbal toddlers. Their parents should be ashamed. And because of their actions the whole country is punished.

The White House should have done a better job of explaining the ACA. I've seen commercials against it but none explaining it. I have researched it and its still pretty confusing.
ACA is actually pretty simple to sort out.

You have three options:
-Have insurance through your employer
-If your employer doesn't offer insurance, or you are self or unemployed you have the option of purchasing insurance via the government that has insanely high premiums and deductibles
-Do neither and pay a penalty tax every single year to the tune of several thousand dollars per each uninsured person in your household


The "you're going to do this or else" is what is unconstitutional and it should have NEVER gotten this far.

Think about it like this......the government thinks everyone should buy a car. You have the option to buy a car from a program via your employer, you can buy an over priced car from the government, or if you can choose not to buy a car you're going to be taxed to death and if you can't afford to or choose not to pay that tax they can take your house or even go to jail.

Doesn't that sound just insane??? All over a car????

The current administration is sending the exact same message that we are too stupid to decide what we need in our lives in the way of personal purchases.

It's really that simple. And it's exactly why it's time the people elected to protect our freedom of choice, do so. Even if it's hard and creates national turmoil.


If people didn't fight and simply waited for Lincoln to leave office where would slaves in this country be today? Certainly not free I can tell you that much...... I'm sure the people that lived during Civil War times weren't thrilled with bring pushed into it but they knew the fight was bigger than them. It wasn't just about what was comfortable this week, it was about what was going to be best for the country long term.
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Willow 05:21 PM 10-03-2013
Originally Posted by craftymissbeth:
I completely agree, but at what cost? The bullying back by way of government shutdown is not directly affecting those that issued the shutdown. It's drastically affecting the citizens who rely on those in office to act as our voice, though.
Protecting freedom from tyranny has always taken sacrifice.

Always.
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sahm1225 06:46 PM 10-03-2013
I thought You have the option to purchase from a private health insurance too. If everyone is required to be insured, then insurance rates should go down because we have options if where we get our insurance from.

Families that weren't able to afford health insurance can get insurance now. If you don't want to be insured, you have the option to pay the penalty.

As self employed, health insurance was always ridiculously expensive and I'm excited to see what we can get now.

And I loved Michael's comment about letting daycare providers run congress!
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Willow 07:33 PM 10-03-2013
Originally Posted by sahm1225:
I thought You have the option to purchase from a private health insurance too. If everyone is required to be insured, then insurance rates should go down because we have options if where we get our insurance from.

Families that weren't able to afford health insurance can get insurance now. If you don't want to be insured, you have the option to pay the penalty.

As self employed, health insurance was always ridiculously expensive and I'm excited to see what we can get now.

And I loved Michael's comment about letting daycare providers run congress!
If people couldn't afford private insurance before, what makes you think they'll be able to afford it now? Because the government is telling them they *have* to?

(I want the government to tell me I have to buy a mansion, a new truck and a boat would be great too......because if that's all it takes is an executive order well heck, the money for that stuff is obviously going to start growing on trees then eh?)

The only thing that will be going down is the level of care doctors will be able to provide individual patients.

Just ask Canadians how that works.
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snbauser 07:42 PM 10-03-2013
Originally Posted by Willow:
ACA is actually pretty simple to sort out.

You have three options:
-Have insurance through your employer
-If your employer doesn't offer insurance, or you are self or unemployed you have the option of purchasing insurance via the government that has insanely high premiums and deductibles
-Do neither and pay a penalty tax every single year to the tune of several thousand dollars per each uninsured person in your household


The "you're going to do this or else" is what is unconstitutional and it should have NEVER gotten this far.

Think about it like this......the government thinks everyone should buy a car. You have the option to buy a car from a program via your employer, you can buy an over priced car from the government, or if you can choose not to buy a car you're going to be taxed to death and if you can't afford to or choose not to pay that tax they can take your house or even go to jail.

Doesn't that sound just insane??? All over a car????

The current administration is sending the exact same message that we are too stupid to decide what we need in our lives in the way of personal purchases.

It's really that simple. And it's exactly why it's time the people elected to protect our freedom of choice, do so. Even if it's hard and creates national turmoil.


If people didn't fight and simply waited for Lincoln to leave office where would slaves in this country be today? Certainly not free I can tell you that much...... I'm sure the people that lived during Civil War times weren't thrilled with bring pushed into it but they knew the fight was bigger than them. It wasn't just about what was comfortable this week, it was about what was going to be best for the country long term.
Although I agree with some of what you say, I think that the problem right now is that the law passed. Democracy occurred and there was a deal that was hammered out and passed the House, the Senate, and was signed by the President. Now the current legislatures have decided they don't like that deal and have decided that instead of trying to change the law using the democratic process, they will not fund it instead and won't approve a budget that does fund it. In addition, there is a majority that will approve a measure to fund the government, but ONE person (Sen Boehner) refuses to bring the budget to the floor to be voted on. That is NOT how the democratic process is supposed to work. That is throwing a temper tantrum because your party agreed to something and now you have decided you don't like that agreement.
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MyAngels 08:03 PM 10-03-2013
Originally Posted by Willow:
unconstitutional legislation
The Supreme Court disagrees with your view that this is unconstitutional legislation.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/29/us...anted=all&_r=0

The Affordable Care Act is now the law of the land. It was passed by both the House and Senate and signed into law by the President. It has been challenged all the way to the Supreme Court and found to be constitutional as to the challenges that were made.

The current situation in our government is nothing but political brinksmanship gone awry. The members of Congress need to quit the political posturing and get back to the business of running this country.
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Lucy 08:10 PM 10-03-2013
I believed the word "affordable" too ... until I decided to see what it would be for my husband and me (no dependents). The CHEAPEST plan, which only covers catastrophic incidents, was almost $400 a month. If we wanted the "bronze" so-so coverage plan, it would be in the $600 a month range. If we wanted GOOD coverage similar to what we have now under my husband's employment, it was in the $800's. It's even more in most states! Like in the high thousands. Per month!! And mind you, this is with no dependents.

If you want to check what it would be for you and your family, go to healthcare.gov and click the green "APPLY NOW". Don't worry, you're not actually applying! Some states (about 15) provide their own separate website to check coverages, but you'll still start out at healthcare.gov . Also, some of them have you sign up for the website. It's your call whether you want to do that or not. It's not like you're actually signing up for coverage, you're just checking prices.
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Willow 08:16 PM 10-03-2013
Originally Posted by Lucy:
I believed the word "affordable" too ... until I decided to see what it would be for my husband and me (no dependents). The CHEAPEST plan, which only covers catastrophic incidents, was almost $400 a month. If we wanted the "bronze" so-so coverage plan, it would be in the $600 a month range. If we wanted GOOD coverage similar to what we have now under my husband's employment, it was in the $800's. It's even more in most states! Like in the high thousands. Per month!! And mind you, this is with no dependents.

If you want to check what it would be for you and your family, go to healthcare.gov and click the green "APPLY NOW". Don't worry, you're not actually applying! Some states (about 15) provide their own separate website to check coverages, but you'll still start out at healthcare.gov . Also, some of them have you sign up for the website. It's your call whether you want to do that or not. It's not like you're actually signing up for coverage, you're just checking prices.


It's absolute insanity........the American people were totally duped and it's so incredibly wrong on every level imaginable.
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MyAngels 08:23 PM 10-03-2013
Originally Posted by Lucy:
I believed the word "affordable" too ... until I decided to see what it would be for my husband and me (no dependents). The CHEAPEST plan, which only covers catastrophic incidents, was almost $400 a month. If we wanted the "bronze" so-so coverage plan, it would be in the $600 a month range. If we wanted GOOD coverage similar to what we have now under my husband's employment, it was in the $800's. It's even more in most states! Like in the high thousands. Per month!! And mind you, this is with no dependents.

If you want to check what it would be for you and your family, go to healthcare.gov and click the green "APPLY NOW". Don't worry, you're not actually applying! Some states (about 15) provide their own separate website to check coverages, but you'll still start out at healthcare.gov . Also, some of them have you sign up for the website. It's your call whether you want to do that or not. It's not like you're actually signing up for coverage, you're just checking prices.
I continually check prices for health insurance because my husband's company plan is very expensive for what amounts to mediocre coverage. Bunch of sick people there...... but I digress.

When I checked the prices after the websites went live on Tuesday I found that the prices I've been tracking actually went down, for what amounts to better coverage because of the mandates that are included as far as preventive care and the like. If it's possible to do it, it may actually be cheaper for us to buy our coverage on the exchange.

I've never been a big supporter of this legislation, but it might, just maybe, benefit me on a personal level. I guess only time will tell if it will actually be a good thing or a booby prize.
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Willow 08:33 PM 10-03-2013
Originally Posted by MyAngels:
I continually check prices for health insurance because my husband's company plan is very expensive for what amounts to mediocre coverage. Bunch of sick people there...... but I digress.

When I checked the prices after the websites went live on Tuesday I found that the prices I've been tracking actually went down, for what amounts to better coverage because of the mandates that are included as far as preventive care and the like. If it's possible to do it, it may actually be cheaper for us to buy our coverage on the exchange.

I've never been a big supporter of this legislation, but it might, just maybe, benefit me on a personal level. I guess only time will tell if it will actually be a good thing or a booby prize.
I am genuinely curious why you think socialized health care will somehow be different here than it is for all of Canada and the UK?
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MyAngels 08:49 PM 10-03-2013
Originally Posted by Willow:
I am genuinely curious why you think socialized health care will somehow be different here than it is for all of Canada and the UK?
I'm genuinely curious as to why you're asking me this question? .

The only contributions I've made to this thread are

*my opinion that Congress should be run by daycare providers;

*my speculation via a bit I saw on the news as to why certain republicans feel they can "dig their heels in"

*a link to a news article that there may be some progress on ending the shutdown

*that the Affordable Care Act was lawfully passed and found constitutional as to the arguments made by the Supreme Court;

*and my personal experiences as to the cost quoted me vs. my DH's group plan.

I have not mentioned my position on socialized medicine or how that might relate to the Affordable Care Act, the Canadian medical system or the United Kingdom's medical system.
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Michael 09:12 PM 10-03-2013
Originally Posted by MyAngels:
I'm genuinely curious as to why you're asking me this question? .

The only contributions I've made to this thread are

*my opinion that Congress should be run by daycare providers;

*my speculation via a bit I saw on the news as to why certain republicans feel they can "dig their heels in"

*a link to a news article that there may be some progress on ending the shutdown

*that the Affordable Care Act was lawfully passed and found constitutional as to the arguments made by the Supreme Court;

*and my personal experiences as to the cost quoted me vs. my DH's group plan.

I have not mentioned my position on socialized medicine or how that might relate to the Affordable Care Act, the Canadian medical system or the United Kingdom's medical system.
Well put. This thread is beginning to look like a chat room.
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Laurel 09:19 PM 10-03-2013
Originally Posted by MyAngels:
I'm genuinely curious as to why you're asking me this question? .

The only contributions I've made to this thread are

*my opinion that Congress should be run by daycare providers;

*my speculation via a bit I saw on the news as to why certain republicans feel they can "dig their heels in"

*a link to a news article that there may be some progress on ending the shutdown

*that the Affordable Care Act was lawfully passed and found constitutional as to the arguments made by the Supreme Court;

*and my personal experiences as to the cost quoted me vs. my DH's group plan.

I have not mentioned my position on socialized medicine or how that might relate to the Affordable Care Act, the Canadian medical system or the United Kingdom's medical system.


Laurel
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Laurel 09:21 PM 10-03-2013
Originally Posted by snbauser:
Although I agree with some of what you say, I think that the problem right now is that the law passed. Democracy occurred and there was a deal that was hammered out and passed the House, the Senate, and was signed by the President. Now the current legislatures have decided they don't like that deal and have decided that instead of trying to change the law using the democratic process, they will not fund it instead and won't approve a budget that does fund it. In addition, there is a majority that will approve a measure to fund the government, but ONE person (Sen Boehner) refuses to bring the budget to the floor to be voted on. That is NOT how the democratic process is supposed to work. That is throwing a temper tantrum because your party agreed to something and now you have decided you don't like that agreement.


Laurel
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Willow 09:41 PM 10-03-2013
Originally Posted by Lucy:
I had a thread about how the shutdown affected one of my families, and I asked that it not be turned into a political discussion. Therefore, I have started this thread so that you CAN get political.

Go..........
I'm sorry, I thought the above was exactly what was being discussed....apparently I was out of line offering my two cents on what was asked or was somehow confused by the original post......my bad
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MyAngels 09:51 PM 10-03-2013
Originally Posted by Willow:
I'm sorry, I thought the above was exactly what was being discussed....apparently I was out of line offering my two cents on what was asked or was somehow confused by the original post......my bad
I didn't think you were (out of line that is). I was just confused as to why you were asking me, specifically (via quoting my post), about socialized medicine .
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Lucy 09:54 PM 10-03-2013
Originally Posted by Willow:
I'm sorry, I thought the above was exactly what was being discussed....apparently I was out of line offering my two cents on what was asked or was somehow confused by the original post......my bad
Willow, hopefully I can help clear this up. It looks like a misunderstanding to me.

I think "MyAngels" was just wondering why you singled HER out when you (seemed to) ask why SHE thought the ACA would be any better than Universal Healthcare is in other countries. She had not specifically said that (or even hinted at it, IMO), so she's confused as to why you quoted one of her comments and posed that question to her.

Am I close, Angels???
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MyAngels 10:04 PM 10-03-2013
Originally Posted by Lucy:
Willow, hopefully I can help clear this up. It looks like a misunderstanding to me.

I think "MyAngels" was just wondering why you singled HER out when you (seemed to) ask why SHE thought the ACA would be any better than Universal Healthcare is in other countries. She had not specifically said that (or even hinted at it, IMO), so she's confused as to why you quoted one of her comments and posed that question to her.

Am I close, Angels???
Yep, that's exactly what I was thinking
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Laurel 05:16 AM 10-04-2013
Originally Posted by Lucy:
I believed the word "affordable" too ... until I decided to see what it would be for my husband and me (no dependents). The CHEAPEST plan, which only covers catastrophic incidents, was almost $400 a month. If we wanted the "bronze" so-so coverage plan, it would be in the $600 a month range. If we wanted GOOD coverage similar to what we have now under my husband's employment, it was in the $800's. It's even more in most states! Like in the high thousands. Per month!! And mind you, this is with no dependents.

If you want to check what it would be for you and your family, go to healthcare.gov and click the green "APPLY NOW". Don't worry, you're not actually applying! Some states (about 15) provide their own separate website to check coverages, but you'll still start out at healthcare.gov . Also, some of them have you sign up for the website. It's your call whether you want to do that or not. It's not like you're actually signing up for coverage, you're just checking prices.
I have a provider friend that is single. She had bought a private insurance policy that she had for years. Over time it went up to $1200 a month. She simply couldn't afford it anymore. It was higher than her house payment. She says she was just lucky that she didn't have any major health issues in 7 years. Now she is on Medicare so she is much relieved. Before she had to drop it she did look around for better prices but no one would take her at all, no matter what the cost, because she has diabetes (which has been controlled for years, btw).

To her, the prices you quoted above would have been music to her ears plus she couldn't be refused because she has diabetes. She could have at least afforded the $400 and probably the $600 so at least she would have had something.

Laurel
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Play Care 05:52 AM 10-04-2013
Originally Posted by Willow:
I am genuinely curious why you think socialized health care will somehow be different here than it is for all of Canada and the UK?
I'm never quite sure why Americans bring up socialized medicine in other countries to prove a point that socialized medicine is a "bad" thing. I've *never* met a Canadian who didn't like their health care system - most sing their praises and can't fathom living in the US and risk going broke over a serious health issue I'm not saying it's all sunshine and roses, no system ever is - and certainly in some rural provinces doctors are in shorter supply, but that's not much different from some places in the US.

As for the shutdown - or really, anything that happens in this country - I don't even care anymore. Seriously, all politicians are corrupt, our foreign policy is a joke and our ignorance makes us the laughing stock of the world. Wooo hooo.

Yep, I'm jaded...
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MotherNature 06:31 AM 10-04-2013
Originally Posted by Play Care:
I'm never quite sure why Americans bring up socialized medicine in other countries to prove a point that socialized medicine is a "bad" thing. I've *never* met a Canadian who didn't like their health care system - most sing their praises and can't fathom living in the US and risk going broke over a serious health issue I'm not saying it's all sunshine and roses, no system ever is - and certainly in some rural provinces doctors are in shorter supply, but that's not much different from some places in the US.
.

My mom's doctor is Canadian & much prefers her homeland's medical system.
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craftymissbeth 07:23 AM 10-04-2013
Of the threads I've read here where one of our Canadian members has mentioned their healthcare system, it seems like they rarely have a bad thing to say about it. Maybe some of them will want to chime in and give their perspective? I often hear people referring to the terrible system Canada has and how they're all rushing over here to the US to get "quality" healthcare. I'd love their thoughts
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Play Care 08:04 AM 10-04-2013
Originally Posted by craftymissbeth:
Of the threads I've read here where one of our Canadian members has mentioned their healthcare system, it seems like they rarely have a bad thing to say about it. Maybe some of them will want to chime in and give their perspective? I often hear people referring to the terrible system Canada has and how they're all rushing over here to the US to get "quality" healthcare. I'd love their thoughts
To my understanding there are some services that are easier to get here then in Canada - But I have also heard of the Canadian government paying for their citizens to come to the US to get treatment - along with paying for a family member to accompany them so they are not alone.
Imagine that - diagnosed with a serious illness and no one needs to hold countless benefits/fundraisers that usually wind up costing more then they raise (and then there's the inevitable accusations that someone has absconded with the funds), or re-mortgaging your house to be able to afford not only the treatment but the additional expenses not covered by insurance. That does sound terrible!

Now, don't get me wrong - the affordable health care act is no where near what Canada has.
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craftymissbeth 08:14 AM 10-04-2013
I feel like comparing the ACA to Canada's health system is like comparing apples to oranges. The reason I was curious of an actual Canadian's perspective is because of the quote below from Willow and the fact that it's a common argument regarding the issue... "just look at Canada and how awful their health care is up there and how much they all absolutely hate it... that's exactly how the ACA is going to turn the US".

Originally Posted by Willow:
I am genuinely curious why you think socialized health care will somehow be different here than it is for all of Canada and the UK?

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Laurel 09:03 AM 10-04-2013
About 10 years ago I went to Toronto to meet with an internet group I belonged to. We met in person. While there, my one Canadian friend took my husband and I boating. Later we talked to his friends at the boating club they belonged to. We got on the topic of healthcare and they said they felt sorry for us because of our system. They were all happy with theirs. Then later we went to dinner with more Canadian friends as well as two from England. Not one of them had anything bad to say about their healthcare but couldn't understand how we could tolerate ours.

I'm sure there must be some Canadians as well as people from other countries on this board who would like to comment. I also would love to hear their comments....whether positive or negative.

Laurel
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Blackcat31 09:08 AM 10-04-2013
All I know is that my two children (adults) who support themselves both work two jobs in order to pay for their college costs.

Both live on their own. Neither have children. Neither of my kids send $ on video games, partying or extravagances that a lot of young adults do (i-phones, new cars, name brand clothes etc) Both my kids live pretty frugally.

Both of them have VERY little money left after paying for their rent, groceries and personal needs.

With this new health plan, both will either need to stop eating or give up their apartments in order to pay for their "required" health care.

Regardless of whether or not this plan is good for the majority or not...really doesn't matter to me. What matters to me is my kids are having to put food and shelter BELOW health care on their priority lists and something is just not right about that.

My DD actually made the comment that if she finds she can't do this....she is just going to have to have an illegitimate child or two so she doesn't have to worry and can survive.

Yes, she meant that as a joke but sadly I find more truth to her line of thinking than not....kwim?
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MyAngels 09:12 AM 10-04-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
All I know is that my two children (adults) who support themselves both work two jobs in order to pay for their college costs.

Both live on their own. Neither have children. Neither of my kids send $ on video games, partying or extravagances that a lot of young adults do (i-phones, new cars, name brand clothes etc) Both my kids live pretty frugally.

Both of them have VERY little money left after paying for their rent, groceries and personal needs.

With this new health plan, both will either need to stop eating or give up their apartments in order to pay for their "required" health care.

Regardless of whether or not this plan is good for the majority or not...really doesn't matter to me. What matters to me is my kids are having to put food and shelter BELOW health care on their priority lists and something is just not right about that.

My DD actually made the comment that if she finds she can't do this....she is just going to have to have an illegitimate child or two so she doesn't have to worry and can survive.

Yes, she meant that as a joke but sadly I find more truth to her line of thinking than not....kwim?
Are your kids uninsured now?

It's my understanding that if you have insurance now this law doesn't affect that at all. I also know there is a lower cost catastrophic plan for those under 30. Have they actually checked the prices for them specifically?
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Blackcat31 09:22 AM 10-04-2013
Originally Posted by MyAngels:
Are your kids uninsured now?

It's my understanding that if you have insurance now this law doesn't affect that at all. I also know there is a lower cost catastrophic plan for those under 30. Have they actually checked the prices for them specifically?
No. Neither of them qualifies for "free or reduced" healthcare now because they don't have kids and make too much money.

They have been simply paying out of pocket for the things they need as they are both pretty healthy or going without. DD hasn't been to the dentist since moving out 5 years ago. DS needs new glasses and has been saving for months to buy a pair.

Yes, they also checked the prices for their areas and their ages...the lowest plan will cost them near the amount of rent they pay and if they opt for a lower monthly payment, the deductible goes waaaay up so they will ultimately end up paying out of their own pockets anyways....

lose-lose either way

Basically they fall through the cracks because they work and when the formula applied to figure out their insurance rate is used, it doesn't account for the fact that although they both make decent money, the money goes toward college. I think the system needs to account for living costs FIRST before applying the formula for healthcare costs....

Hopefully that makes sense...
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MyAngels 09:40 AM 10-04-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
No. Neither of them qualifies for "free or reduced" healthcare now because they don't have kids and make too much money.

They have been simply paying out of pocket for the things they need as they are both pretty healthy or going without. DD hasn't been to the dentist since moving out 5 years ago. DS needs new glasses and has been saving for months to buy a pair.

Yes, they also checked the prices for their areas and their ages...the lowest plan will cost them near the amount of rent they pay and if they opt for a lower monthly payment, the deductible goes waaaay up so they will ultimately end up paying out of their own pockets anyways....

lose-lose either way

Basically they fall through the cracks because they work and when the formula applied to figure out their insurance rate is used, it doesn't account for the fact that although they both make decent money, the money goes toward college. I think the system needs to account for living costs FIRST before applying the formula for healthcare costs....

Hopefully that makes sense...
Well that's no good

I'm assuming they've checked with their schools re student insurance. When our youngest was in school last year they offered a really good plan for $1400 per year. It had gone up from $200 per year for the supplemental plan offered in the past in response to the impending ACA but the new plan was actually very good.
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sleepinghart 10:05 AM 10-04-2013
I liked this/Thought it interesting :


John Stossel on Government Shutdown: “Shut more down!”


“I’m hoping the shutdown will wake people up and say, hey, maybe we don’t need all this stuff,” Stossel says. “We could close whole departments. Why do we need a Commerce Department? Commerce just happens, government gets in the way.”

“So, you’re pro-shutdown?” co-host Elisabeth Hasselbeck asked.

“Yeah,” Stossel retorts. “Shut more down!”


Respectfully Snipped From(Video of Interview In Link*): http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/jo...#ixzz2glmW1f9u
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MyAngels 10:10 AM 10-04-2013
Originally Posted by sleepinghart:
I liked this/Thought it interesting :


John Stossel on Government Shutdown: “Shut more down!”


“I’m hoping the shutdown will wake people up and say, hey, maybe we don’t need all this stuff,” Stossel says. “We could close whole departments. Why do we need a Commerce Department? Commerce just happens, government gets in the way.”

“So, you’re pro-shutdown?” co-host Elisabeth Hasselbeck asked.

“Yeah,” Stossel retorts. “Shut more down!”


Respectfully Snipped From(Video of Interview In Link*): http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/jo...#ixzz2glmW1f9u
Well, unless you're one of the 48,880 people employed by the commerce department....
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Blackcat31 10:19 AM 10-04-2013
Depending on whether those people are consider ESSENTIAL or NON_ESSENTIAL.... I agree with John Stossel

Note* I have NO real idea but I've heard that the majority of people being laid off or out of jobs are in non-essential positions....

Can't help but wonder how many of those non-essential positions do we really NEED...

...even if that means a lot of those 48,880 people lose their jobs.

It sucks but I can totally think of several positions in my local government that are non-essential but cost tax payers a lot.

We have people who over see people who over see others over seeing workers.......I definitely think our government could downsize ALOT.
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Unregistered 10:20 AM 10-04-2013
The penalty is not thousands of dollars. It goes into effect in 2014 and is 1% of income or $95 Adult, $47.50/child. In 2015, it goes up to 2% of income or $325 adult and $162.50/child with a maximum for family of $205. Blackcat - my daughter got her insurance through college because she couldn't be on ours. Do your children qualify to be on your insurance? I believe it is age 26 if college student. Your children should be calling the insurance exchange. I did a quick check and was happy to see the costs. This is the law of the land - upheld by the Supreme Court. No one likes change but holding a country hostage because you don't like the law is wrong.
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sleepinghart 10:27 AM 10-04-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Depending on whether those people are consider ESSENTIAL or NON_ESSENTIAL.... I agree with John Stossel

Note* I have NO real idea but I've heard that the majority of people being laid off or out of jobs are in non-essential positions....

Can't help but wonder how many of those non-essential positions do we really NEED...

...even if that means a lot of those 48,880 people lose their jobs.

It sucks but I can totally think of several positions in my local government that are non-essential but cost tax payers a lot.

We have people who over see people who over see others over seeing workers.......I definitely think our government could downsize ALOT.


I totally agree
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craftymissbeth 10:35 AM 10-04-2013
I highly recommend everyone do their own research on the topic of penalties for opting out of health insurance, but here are a few links that I found. Technically it could be thousands of dollars, but that all depends on the year, family size, and income. I do have to say that generalizing and making it seem like every family that opts out is going to pay thousands per person (which is how PP made it sound) isn't completely truthful.

Obamacare 101: What to know if you opt out of buying health insurance
Tax Penalty at a Glance: Who will pay & how much
How Much is the Health Insurance Penalty for an Individual?

There are obviously many, many more articles out there that can be found with a Google search.
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Blackcat31 10:39 AM 10-04-2013
Originally Posted by craftymissbeth:
I highly recommend everyone do their own research on the topic of penalties for opting out of health insurance, but here are a few links that I found. Technically it could be thousands of dollars, but that all depends on the year, family size, and income. I do have to say that generalizing and making it seem like every family that opts out is going to pay thousands per person (which is how PP made it sound) isn't completely truthful.

Obamacare 101: What to know if you opt out of buying health insurance
Tax Penalty at a Glance: Who will pay & how much
How Much is the Health Insurance Penalty for an Individual?

There are obviously many, many more articles out there that can be found with a Google search.
How's this for a penalty?

A man who attempted to sign up for Obamacare online was told that a fine of over $4,000 dollars a year for refusing to take out mandatory health insurance could be taken directly from his bank account, and that his drivers license would be suspended and a federal tax lien placed against his home, according to an entry on the HealthCare.gov Facebook page.

http://www.infowars.com/obamacare-fi...bank-accounts/
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craftymissbeth 10:48 AM 10-04-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
How's this for a penalty?

A man who attempted to sign up for Obamacare online was told that a fine of over $4,000 dollars a year for refusing to take out mandatory health insurance could be taken directly from his bank account, and that his drivers license would be suspended and a federal tax lien placed against his home, according to an entry on the HealthCare.gov Facebook page.

http://www.infowars.com/obamacare-fi...bank-accounts/
I just read the article you linked to and that's about some random guy who claims he received an email from the government stating that that's what they'll do, BUT is that really true? Why would he receive that email if the government and IRS are both vehemently denying that they have the ability to do ANY of that? That's directly stated in the article you linked.

From the article:
"The federal government has consistently denied that any fines pertaining to Obamacare non-compliance could be seized from bank accounts, despite reports last year that the IRS had hired 16,500 new agents to harass citizens who attempt to evade the new law.

“There’s no criminal sanctions for not paying this, and there’s no ability to levy a bank account or do seizures,” then-IRS commissioner Douglas Shulman said in April 2010.

In addition, Americans who refuse to pay for mandatory health insurance “shall not be subject to any criminal prosecution,” according to the law itself.

Section 1501(g)(2) of the Affordable Care Act also states that the IRS cannot “file notice of lien with respect to any property of a taxpayer by reason of any failure to pay the penalty imposed by this section.”


The articles I linked to all have the same information that is available to everyone... not a random person claiming this or that to stir the pot.


I just want to add that I am not for nor against the ACA. There's not a whole lot that I can personally do about it and we're simply going to ride this thing out and see where it goes. The whole United States government is going downhill very, very quickly and the opinion that DH and I have is we're not convinced that it can even bounce back... at all.
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snbauser 10:52 AM 10-04-2013
I go back to my original point - whether you agree with Obamacare or not, it is now the law. It was democratically agreed to and put into place. Refusing to fund an existing law and shutting down the entire government thereby affecting hundreds of thousands of people at a minimum is not how you go about changing a law.
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TwinKristi 10:52 AM 10-04-2013
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
The penalty is not thousands of dollars. It goes into effect in 2014 and is 1% of income or $95 Adult, $47.50/child. In 2015, it goes up to 2% of income or $325 adult and $162.50/child with a maximum for family of $205. Blackcat - my daughter got her insurance through college because she couldn't be on ours. Do your children qualify to be on your insurance? I believe it is age 26 if college student. Your children should be calling the insurance exchange. I did a quick check and was happy to see the costs. This is the law of the land - upheld by the Supreme Court. No one likes change but holding a country hostage because you don't like the law is wrong.
This is what I've been reading and was told several times as well which is why it really isn't being FORCED! A whopping $95-695 fine on my taxes? WOW! I really don't think the fine is that big of a deal, its really more about people having the option to get healthcare who didn't before. Due to a pre-existing condition I haven't been able to get private insurance in years. We paid $800/mo for insurance for years and about 5 yrs ago when the economy was bad (dh is self-employed and I was staying home at the time) we finally had to give it up and just go without insurance. We made too much for state insurance and didn't make enough to afford it. So I find it silly how NOW that people have to see it in their face they want to complain about it. The whole insurance system is just as scandalous and messed up than our gov't is and if people sat down and added it up, I would imagine people would probably take the fine over the craptastic coverage being offered. I don't blame Obama though. This is just a stepping stone towards where we should be like Canada and other countries. But the American people don't want to be like Canada, we like our guns, we like our top-notch military and that's fine.
The years we went without insurance we were remarkably healthy and had very few visits. I think we had 1 ER visit for my then toddler and it was about $1500. We paid OOP for our dr visists and it was about $75/visit. Now its up to $181/visit for cash pay at our office but I know other offices who are still $65-100 for a cash visit. Say you go 12x a year... that's still WAY less than what you would pay for insurance coverage and add in co-pays and deductibles at their huge "insurance" rate. When I got a PT job I took the health insurance (which basically took my whole paycheck) and the coverage was horrible. Once we hit our max I saw a bill and the way it was charged and was in shock! I explained that our insurance hit its max coverage and if I could get a cash pay discount and when I compared the bills it was INSANE! They charged me $10 for a vaccine that they bill at $500 to the insurance!!! So when you pay your 20% deductible, you're paying 20% of $500. Your insurance company only pays their negotiated rate of reimbursement. The whole thing just sickens me. Dh & I no longer have coverage but our kids do. We'll take the $190 fine over paying thousands for private coverage.

eta- I know that this doesn't take into consideration a horrific accident that would require a hospital stay and such, but there is emergency coverage for situations like this. Most hospitals will work with you on it if you don't have coverage. I was hospitalized in July and know how easily it can happen!
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Blackcat31 10:54 AM 10-04-2013
Originally Posted by craftymissbeth:
I just read the article you linked to and that's about some random guy who claims he received an email from the government stating that that's what they'll do, BUT is that really true? Why would he receive that email if the government and IRS are both vehemently denying that they have the ability to do ANY of that? That's directly stated in the article you linked.

From the article:
"The federal government has consistently denied that any fines pertaining to Obamacare non-compliance could be seized from bank accounts, despite reports last year that the IRS had hired 16,500 new agents to harass citizens who attempt to evade the new law.

“There’s no criminal sanctions for not paying this, and there’s no ability to levy a bank account or do seizures,” then-IRS commissioner Douglas Shulman said in April 2010.

In addition, Americans who refuse to pay for mandatory health insurance “shall not be subject to any criminal prosecution,” according to the law itself.

Section 1501(g)(2) of the Affordable Care Act also states that the IRS cannot “file notice of lien with respect to any property of a taxpayer by reason of any failure to pay the penalty imposed by this section.”


The articles I linked to all have the same information that is available to everyone... not a random person claiming this or that to stir the pot.


I just want to add that I am not for nor against the ACA. There's not a whole lot that I can personally do about it and we're simply going to ride this thing out and see where it goes. The whole United States government is going downhill very, very quickly and the opinion that DH and I have is we're not convinced that it can even bounce back... at all.
Yeah, I am NOT saying it is or isn't true...I just linked it because someone mentioned penalties..

I also have NO faith in what the government or the IRS says is or isn't true anymore.

Who knows for sure...until penalties actually start being given out...kwim? I agree 100% with your statement (bolded) above.
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craftymissbeth 11:00 AM 10-04-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Yeah, I am NOT saying it is or isn't true...I just linked it because someone mentioned penalties..

I also have NO faith in what the government or the IRS says is or isn't true anymore.

Who knows for sure...until penalties actually start being given out...kwim? I agree 100% with your statement (bolded) above.
Gotcha!

I get a little frustrated when I see others believing everyone else's opinions and not thinking for themselves. I realize that the internet is not necessarily the best place for information, but for every single thing we believe in and feel strongly for (for EVERYTHING in life, not just politics) we need to take the time to do a little research and get some facts.

I do agree with the bolded above also!
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sleepinghart 11:02 AM 10-04-2013
Originally Posted by Willow:
I'm glad they're digging their heels in.

If there's anything they should dig their heels in about it SHOULD be against unconstitutional legislation brought forth by arrogant egotistical elected officials.


I'm not happy about a government shut down but something like this needed to happen to wake this country up.

I'm glad at least someone is paying attention and demanding a big fat *NO MORE*

The current administration is completely out of control and needs to be stopped. I think it's the left that's throwing the tantrum because the people are refusing to bend over, not the other way around.....



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My3cents 11:11 AM 10-04-2013
Originally Posted by Lucy:
I had a thread about how the shutdown affected one of my families, and I asked that it not be turned into a political discussion. Therefore, I have started this thread so that you CAN get political.

Go..........
I am sorry that was prob my fault, I just found it interesting and I got busy and forgot to start a new thread. Please forgive me.
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Play Care 11:17 AM 10-04-2013
Originally Posted by snbauser:
I go back to my original point - whether you agree with Obamacare or not, it is now the law. It was democratically agreed to and put into place. Refusing to fund an existing law and shutting down the entire government thereby affecting hundreds of thousands of people at a minimum is not how you go about changing a law.

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Blackcat31 11:21 AM 10-04-2013
Originally Posted by snbauser:
I go back to my original point - whether you agree with Obamacare or not, it is now the law. It was democratically agreed to and put into place. Refusing to fund an existing law and shutting down the entire government thereby affecting hundreds of thousands of people at a minimum is not how you go about changing a law.
I disagree with that. I do NOT think it was passed democratically at all.

I think there were hidden points that were kept from the American people.

An overwhelming amount of people are still adamantly against this and I believe for good reason.

I have no real comments on the shut down or the method in which they are trying to resolve this issue (it's a little too late for that since it's happening anyways) but I do think that if the ACA was presented in FULL and TRUTHFULLY from the beginning none of this would be happening right now.
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Laurel 11:26 AM 10-04-2013
Originally Posted by TwinKristi:
This is what I've been reading and was told several times as well which is why it really isn't being FORCED! A whopping $95-695 fine on my taxes? WOW! I really don't think the fine is that big of a deal, its really more about people having the option to get healthcare who didn't before. Due to a pre-existing condition I haven't been able to get private insurance in years. We paid $800/mo for insurance for years and about 5 yrs ago when the economy was bad (dh is self-employed and I was staying home at the time) we finally had to give it up and just go without insurance. We made too much for state insurance and didn't make enough to afford it. So I find it silly how NOW that people have to see it in their face they want to complain about it. The whole insurance system is just as scandalous and messed up than our gov't is and if people sat down and added it up, I would imagine people would probably take the fine over the craptastic coverage being offered. I don't blame Obama though. This is just a stepping stone towards where we should be like Canada and other countries. But the American people don't want to be like Canada, we like our guns, we like our top-notch military and that's fine.
The years we went without insurance we were remarkably healthy and had very few visits. I think we had 1 ER visit for my then toddler and it was about $1500. We paid OOP for our dr visists and it was about $75/visit. Now its up to $181/visit for cash pay at our office but I know other offices who are still $65-100 for a cash visit. Say you go 12x a year... that's still WAY less than what you would pay for insurance coverage and add in co-pays and deductibles at their huge "insurance" rate. When I got a PT job I took the health insurance (which basically took my whole paycheck) and the coverage was horrible. Once we hit our max I saw a bill and the way it was charged and was in shock! I explained that our insurance hit its max coverage and if I could get a cash pay discount and when I compared the bills it was INSANE! They charged me $10 for a vaccine that they bill at $500 to the insurance!!! So when you pay your 20% deductible, you're paying 20% of $500. Your insurance company only pays their negotiated rate of reimbursement. The whole thing just sickens me. Dh & I no longer have coverage but our kids do. We'll take the $190 fine over paying thousands for private coverage.

eta- I know that this doesn't take into consideration a horrific accident that would require a hospital stay and such, but there is emergency coverage for situations like this. Most hospitals will work with you on it if you don't have coverage. I was hospitalized in July and know how easily it can happen!
I am just responding to the bolded part.

My son was hurt on his job at the time and has ruptured discs. He had no insurance at the time. No insurance at work. They didn't offer it. Since then, he has obtained insurance. At the time though, if his back was acting up he COULD go to the ER but after a while they will NOT treat chronic pain. More than one hospital told him he would need to see a doctor and not keep coming there when it hurt really bad. They basically told him to leave. He only did it when it was bad because like someone else said, doctor's visits are really expensive here. They are not a doctor's office for ONGOING pain. He went to the doctor on his own dime (which is fine) but the cost started becoming prohibitive.

The way he had to get insurance was to enter into a Domestic Partnership with his girlfriend so he could be on her insurance. That is the insurance he has now as he presently can't work because of pain. He is getting treated now though so we are hopeful that his current treatment is going to work for him.

Laurel
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My3cents 11:26 AM 10-04-2013
my thoughts are that it is so far out of my control then why should I even bother to have a say or care. Stinkin thinking I am sure- but it is too complex and out of control for a little peep like me to do anything about.

Forcing people to have health insurance that can't even pay for what they have now is crazy. Wages do not compensate for the prices of living these days, and it is getting worse all the time.

Flip side of it is we all pay for those that don't have insurance anyway

Can't win- I don't have an easy answer for any of it.

I just know that job creation for the average Joe, the AJ that doesn't want a college education but would like to live off a good hard working job and be able to support a family hardly exist anymore. Why must two parents have to work and have to have two jobs to be able to make it. There are many AJs out there. I just know that welfare should be a hand up and not a life style, that would create job creation right there. It should be hard to get welfare and anyone on it should be doing something to earn it.

The power should be put back in the peoples hands the real people and not just the people sitting in an office looking good and making big bucks for pushing this stuff around and around. Stand for something and move on.

another thing is that it is not directly effecting me at this point, but it will when I have yet to say no to buying something else that I would like to get when doing my grocery shopping or going anywhere, because of yet again price increase but no price increase on my wages or my husbands wages.

I am sure I will have more comments on this subject...
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My3cents 11:28 AM 10-04-2013
Originally Posted by LK5kids:
My thought is the mega banks and corporations now run this country. They consistently receive corporate welfare and all the other perks of being in power. There is the elite 2% that end up with 85% of the $$$$ and the remaining 98% must live the the 15% that is left.

I don't think it matters if we have a republican or democrat in office. Mega banks (both domestic and foreign) own both parties.

I hope I am wrong....things could get ugly in the not too distant future.
I feel the same way......
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My3cents 11:32 AM 10-04-2013
Originally Posted by Michael:
Meteorologists cover themselves with "partly cloudy with a chance of rain". Translation= could be sunny, could be rain, could be clouds.

A politician covers themselves with, "its the other party's fault. Think how bad things would be if we didn't fight "them".

They are all the same. Results are what matters and we haven't seen much of that in a while. I say give the Congress to Daycare Providers. They have to balance a budget, take care of cry babies, wipe away wasteful crap. Just what America needs. Then we can have quiet time.
meteorologist have no control- weather can change at a whim

issues being battled do have control- stand for something and run with it and stop trying to play both sides, use common sense, stop catering to the rich and start looking out for the hard working.

you make me laugh Michael-
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TwinKristi 11:35 AM 10-04-2013
Originally Posted by Laurel:
I am just responding to the bolded part.

My son was hurt on his job at the time and has ruptured discs. He had no insurance at the time. No insurance at work. They didn't offer it. Since then, he has obtained insurance. At the time though, if his back was acting up he COULD go to the ER but after a while they will NOT treat chronic pain. More than one hospital told him he would need to see a doctor and not keep coming there when it hurt really bad. They basically told him to leave. He only did it when it was bad because like someone else said, doctor's visits are really expensive here. They are not a doctor's office for ONGOING pain. He went to the doctor on his own dime (which is fine) but the cost started becoming prohibitive.

The way he had to get insurance was to enter into a Domestic Partnership with his girlfriend so he could be on her insurance. That is the insurance he has now as he presently can't work because of pain. He is getting treated now though so we are hopeful that his current treatment is going to work for him.

Laurel
In CA employers have to have Worker's Compensation Insurance for this type of situation, it would all be paid for and we would qualify for disability as long as you're out of work. There are clinics you can go to through the state who cover WC claims as well. Sorry to hear this happened to your son though.
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snbauser 11:41 AM 10-04-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I disagree with that. I do NOT think it was passed democratically at all.

If it was negotiated and agreed upon by both the House and Senate and then signed by the President, how was it not passed democratically? Is that not how the democratic process works? The House and the Senate write, negotiate, and approve the bills along with all of the language in it including rules and regulations and penalties so I'm confused how it was done "secretly".
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My3cents 11:46 AM 10-04-2013
Originally Posted by craftymissbeth:
Honestly, it would make more sense (in my puny mind) to just let them keep working and forget the whole shutdown. Also, in any career situation you have to be prepared with an emergency fund. I honestly don't feel bad for people who don't prepare themselves ahead of time for something like this... not necessarily a government shutdown, but for ANY disaster/tragedy/job-loss-of-any-kind. I DO feel bad that they're in this situation and it's ridiculously unnecessary, but retro paying them for work they didn't do simply to stimulate the economy and make sure these people can still pay their bills doesn't make sense.


Now, before anyone freaks out on me for saying all that I want to remind you that I feel terrible for these people... they certainly do not deserve what they are going through and the uncertainty of it all.
So many people have a hard time just making ends meet from week to week,already robbing peter to pay paul. It would be wonderful if everyone could have a nest egg to dip into for these types of issues but not everyone can do this....most people can't.

not even close to freaking out on you- good conversation amongst all of us. We all come from different places in $, importance, beliefs etc.....

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My3cents 11:50 AM 10-04-2013
Originally Posted by Willow:
ACA is actually pretty simple to sort out.

You have three options:
-Have insurance through your employer
-If your employer doesn't offer insurance, or you are self or unemployed you have the option of purchasing insurance via the government that has insanely high premiums and deductibles
-Do neither and pay a penalty tax every single year to the tune of several thousand dollars per each uninsured person in your household


The "you're going to do this or else" is what is unconstitutional and it should have NEVER gotten this far.

Think about it like this......the government thinks everyone should buy a car. You have the option to buy a car from a program via your employer, you can buy an over priced car from the government, or if you can choose not to buy a car you're going to be taxed to death and if you can't afford to or choose not to pay that tax they can take your house or even go to jail.

Doesn't that sound just insane??? All over a car????

The current administration is sending the exact same message that we are too stupid to decide what we need in our lives in the way of personal purchases.

It's really that simple. And it's exactly why it's time the people elected to protect our freedom of choice, do so. Even if it's hard and creates national turmoil.


If people didn't fight and simply waited for Lincoln to leave office where would slaves in this country be today? Certainly not free I can tell you that much...... I'm sure the people that lived during Civil War times weren't thrilled with bring pushed into it but they knew the fight was bigger than them. It wasn't just about what was comfortable this week, it was about what was going to be best for the country long term.

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Willow 11:50 AM 10-04-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I disagree with that. I do NOT think it was passed democratically at all.

I think there were hidden points that were kept from the American people.

An overwhelming amount of people are still adamantly against this and I believe for good reason.

I have no real comments on the shut down or the method in which they are trying to resolve this issue (it's a little too late for that since it's happening anyways) but I do think that if the ACA was presented in FULL and TRUTHFULLY from the beginning none of this would be happening right now.
Exactly.

Your sons predicament is the exact scenario that's going to nail all of middle class America too. It's just terrible.




As far as the individuals here who have never heard the downfalls of socialized health care in not quite sure how to respond to that. The information out there about how people have to wait months or even years just to get in to see a doctor, regardless of emergent need is ASTOUNDING. Not to mention the fact that if the powers that be think your life is not worthy of saving they will simply deny your access to any care at all.......it's all incredibly well publicized and documented.
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Blackcat31 11:51 AM 10-04-2013
Originally Posted by snbauser:
If it was negotiated and agreed upon by both the House and Senate and then signed by the President, how was it not passed democratically? Is that not how the democratic process works? The House and the Senate write, negotiate, and approve the bills along with all of the language in it including rules and regulations and penalties so I'm confused how it was done "secretly".
It passed in a Democratically controlled House and a Democratically controlled Senate

Passed in middle of night. Just like Immigration Senate bill, nobody had chance to read it.

Nancy Pelosi herself said something along the lines of "Let's just pass this bill so we can see what's in it"

There are so many things that are just now coming to light that I just don't believe that ALL the information was presented so that it could be enacted democratically.

I mean democratically as in fair and equal not just passed by the Democratic party...
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MyAngels 11:56 AM 10-04-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I disagree with that. I do NOT think it was passed democratically at all.

I think there were hidden points that were kept from the American people.

An overwhelming amount of people are still adamantly against this and I believe for good reason.
I can't understand this line of reasoning. The American people don't get to vote for laws, only our representatives in Congress do, so whether there are or were hidden points kept from the American people is a moot point. As long as our representatives in Congress had access to the information, that's all that matters. When we vote for our representatives we trust them to do what's best for their constituencies. That's the democratic way.

If an overwhelming majority of people are adamantly against this law then it's their job to let their representatives know their views, whether it's by contacting them directly or by their votes at election time, or both.

I have contacted all of my representatives twice so far this week, and I'm sure I'll continue to do so as long as I'm unhappy with the way they're handling things. I personally know one of my representatives in the House and he has assured me that the majority of the representatives do get the information when their constituents contact them. He doesn't personally read every e-mail or letter, but his staff compiles the information so that he can keep abreast of what's going on in his district.
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My3cents 11:56 AM 10-04-2013
Originally Posted by sahm1225:
I thought You have the option to purchase from a private health insurance too. If everyone is required to be insured, then insurance rates should go down because we have options if where we get our insurance from. not going to happen because the price of health care is high-

Families that weren't able to afford health insurance can get insurance now. If you don't want to be insured, you have the option to pay the penalty. that is not an option- that is being bullied into doing it If families could afford to get it they would in the first place- It is not going to be affordable to everything else we have to spend our money on.

As self employed, health insurance was always ridiculously expensive and I'm excited to see what we can get now. I don't believe that will change, it will have the opposite effect, because it will be needed and the companies know this-

And I loved Michael's comment about letting daycare providers run congress!me too
I responded above
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craftymissbeth 11:59 AM 10-04-2013
Originally Posted by MyAngels:
I can't understand this line of reasoning. The American people don't get to vote for laws, only our representatives in Congress do, so whether there are or were hidden points kept from the American people is a moot point. As long as our representatives in Congress had access to the information, that's all that matters. When we vote for our representatives we trust them to do what's best for their constituencies. That's the democratic way.

If an overwhelming majority of people are adamantly against this law then it's their job to let their representatives know their views, whether it's by contacting them directly or by their votes at election time, or both.

I have contacted all of my representatives twice so far this week, and I'm sure I'll continue to do so as long as I'm unhappy with the way they're handling things. I personally know one of my representatives in the House and he has assured me that the majority of the representatives do get the information when their constituents contact them. He doesn't personally read every e-mail or letter, but his staff compiles the information so that he can keep abreast of what's going on in his district.
This is basically my thought also.
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Laurel 11:59 AM 10-04-2013
Originally Posted by TwinKristi:
In CA employers have to have Worker's Compensation Insurance for this type of situation, it would all be paid for and we would qualify for disability as long as you're out of work. There are clinics you can go to through the state who cover WC claims as well. Sorry to hear this happened to your son though.
Oh sorry, I should have made it clear that he did have Workmen's Comp. They basically were useless. They gave him some useless treatments and then basically said he was faking his pain in so many words, I paid for an MRI and it proved he was not faking. They refused to get him one. He did see a lawyer that said he could win but he ws not up for a legal battle and doing the Domestic Partner thing seemed a better alternative.

Thanks for the sentiments. The doctor he has now has reduced his pain by 50% so that is something. He has another procedure this month so hopefully....

Laurel
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MyAngels 12:00 PM 10-04-2013
Originally Posted by craftymissbeth:
I get a little frustrated when I see others believing everyone else's opinions and not thinking for themselves. I realize that the internet is not necessarily the best place for information, but for every single thing we believe in and feel strongly for (for EVERYTHING in life, not just politics) we need to take the time to do a little research and get some facts.

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