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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Why Should Our Kids Not Be Counted In Numbers
MommyofThree 09:22 AM 07-01-2012
Hello I need ideas to write to licensing about why I feel that my children shouldnt be a part in my numbers. I have a few reasons but could you all give me more ideas. Thanks.
sharlan 09:32 AM 07-01-2012
I have to disagree with you, I feel that our kids should be counted in our numbers.
Say you have 4 kids under the age of 10 and you're licensed for 8 kids. That would allow you to have 12 kids of varying ages on your own. IMHO, that is too many for one person to keep an adequate eye on.
My 5 yo grandson lives with me. He counts in my numbers even when his mom is home and he is under her control. I understand the reasoning behind it and I don't have an issue with it.
Say you have 4 kids under the age of 10 and you're licensed for 8 kids. That would allow you to have 12 kids of varying ages on your own. IMHO, that is too many for one person to keep an adequate eye on.
My 5 yo grandson lives with me. He counts in my numbers even when his mom is home and he is under her control. I understand the reasoning behind it and I don't have an issue with it.
spud912 10:41 AM 07-01-2012
I also think they should count in your numbers. In fact, I have found that my children often need MORE supervision than daycare children. Not only do they push more buttons and get into more stuff around the house, but I expect a higher level of behavior out of them versus dck's.
countrymom 10:56 AM 07-01-2012
I disagree. It would be different if you have 1 child of your own, but I have 4 of my own and if they counted in my numbers then I would only be able to watch 1 child, how would I be able to do this and make a living.
also, what happens when kids are in school or off on vacation or have the day off, it would be so confusing. My children are now a bit older but even when they were younger I had no problems with them, if your having issues with your own children maybe its time to take a break from daycare and figure out what is going on.
also, what happens when kids are in school or off on vacation or have the day off, it would be so confusing. My children are now a bit older but even when they were younger I had no problems with them, if your having issues with your own children maybe its time to take a break from daycare and figure out what is going on.
Sunchimes 10:59 AM 07-01-2012
Just to show how different states are, I'm a listed home in Texas, which is similar to what other states call legally unregistered. I am allowed 3 children who are not related to me. But, I am allowed 12 children if 9 of them are related. They have a pretty broad definition of related: kids, grandkids, nieces, nephews. cousins, etc. It boggles my mind that I can have 12 kids if they are kin, but only 3 strangers.
I don't really have any suggestions for you, but the topic hit home since we were just talking this morning about adopting one of my dc moms so that I can take her baby when he's born. Otherwise, I'm over my limit and can't take him.
I don't really have any suggestions for you, but the topic hit home since we were just talking this morning about adopting one of my dc moms so that I can take her baby when he's born. Otherwise, I'm over my limit and can't take him.
MommyofThree 11:03 AM 07-01-2012
Originally Posted by countrymom:
I disagree. It would be different if you have 1 child of your own, but I have 4 of my own and if they counted in my numbers then I would only be able to watch 1 child, how would I be able to do this and make a living.
also, what happens when kids are in school or off on vacation or have the day off, it would be so confusing. My children are now a bit older but even when they were younger I had no problems with them, if your having issues with your own children maybe its time to take a break from daycare and figure out what is going on.
Thank you. I have two school age chilren that cant do things like have friends over or go up stairs in their rooms because they count in my numbers. My two year old also is well behaved where I dont need to have him count in my numbers. He is allowed to be out of my site on weekends like upstairs with his siblings or out in our fenced yard withn out me if his older siblings are out with him but since he is consider one of my daycare kids I cant let him be free in his own home. I also agree with you that I have no issues with my own children so I dont get why some have more issues with their kids m ore then the daycare kids.I disagree. It would be different if you have 1 child of your own, but I have 4 of my own and if they counted in my numbers then I would only be able to watch 1 child, how would I be able to do this and make a living.
also, what happens when kids are in school or off on vacation or have the day off, it would be so confusing. My children are now a bit older but even when they were younger I had no problems with them, if your having issues with your own children maybe its time to take a break from daycare and figure out what is going on.
MommyofThree 11:05 AM 07-01-2012
Originally Posted by sharlan:
I have to disagree with you, I feel that our kids should be counted in our numbers.
Say you have 4 kids under the age of 10 and you're licensed for 8 kids. That would allow you to have 12 kids of varying ages on your own. IMHO, that is too many for one person to keep an adequate eye on.
My 5 yo grandson lives with me. He counts in my numbers even when his mom is home and he is under her control. I understand the reasoning behind it and I don't have an issue with it.
I am able to handle six childxdrn by myself. Now if I have more I would in nys need an assistant. I have 16 kids now with help. So I disagree with not being able to handle the kids.I have to disagree with you, I feel that our kids should be counted in our numbers.
Say you have 4 kids under the age of 10 and you're licensed for 8 kids. That would allow you to have 12 kids of varying ages on your own. IMHO, that is too many for one person to keep an adequate eye on.
My 5 yo grandson lives with me. He counts in my numbers even when his mom is home and he is under her control. I understand the reasoning behind it and I don't have an issue with it.
spud912 11:47 AM 07-01-2012
Ok, let me clarify. Under all circumstances, I believe they should count in your ratio, but the ratio should depend on the age of your children. If your children are 0-5 years old, you are allowed less; whereas if your children are school aged, then you are allowed more.
As far as "issues" with my own children, there are none outside of regular childhood issues. You can't seriously believe that your children require no extra work. The laws are created for ALL people, including those with "perfect" children and those with little demons. Just because your children are great doesn't mean Jane Doe with a home daycare down the street has perfect children as well.
As far as "issues" with my own children, there are none outside of regular childhood issues. You can't seriously believe that your children require no extra work. The laws are created for ALL people, including those with "perfect" children and those with little demons. Just because your children are great doesn't mean Jane Doe with a home daycare down the street has perfect children as well.
MommyofThree 12:02 PM 07-01-2012
can someone just give me pros and cons and not one sided answers . That will be great thank you.
WImom 01:13 PM 07-01-2012
In WI they only count until they are 7y old. I couldn't imagine if my own had to count until 18.
Maybe go on the fact that once they are school age they are at school and having them take up a space that could be filled with a child that is there all the time makes more sense.
Maybe go on the fact that once they are school age they are at school and having them take up a space that could be filled with a child that is there all the time makes more sense.
spud912 01:14 PM 07-01-2012
So I take it you only want reasons as to why they shouldn't count in the ratios.
I think this post is good for you because you should know all sides (not just people sharing your opinion) before you write a letter to the state. You need to be able to argue all points.
I think this post is good for you because you should know all sides (not just people sharing your opinion) before you write a letter to the state. You need to be able to argue all points.
SilverSabre25 01:40 PM 07-01-2012
In my state (OH) our own kids only count until they are age 6.
I can understand own children not counting once they are in school full-time--they are older, more self-sufficient, etc, when they are home.
I do think that own children should count until school age--imagine if someone had twins, or triplets, or 4 kids under age 4 of their own, then added another 3, 4, 6 daycare kids on top of it...that's too much for one person!
HOWEVER--I don't think that our rules require us to treat our own children as though they are daycare kids. If I wasn't allowed to let my children be free in their own home, I don't think I would do daycare.
Are you writing the letter and asking for a variance for your own child, or are you trying to get them to change the regulation?
I can understand own children not counting once they are in school full-time--they are older, more self-sufficient, etc, when they are home.
I do think that own children should count until school age--imagine if someone had twins, or triplets, or 4 kids under age 4 of their own, then added another 3, 4, 6 daycare kids on top of it...that's too much for one person!
HOWEVER--I don't think that our rules require us to treat our own children as though they are daycare kids. If I wasn't allowed to let my children be free in their own home, I don't think I would do daycare.
Are you writing the letter and asking for a variance for your own child, or are you trying to get them to change the regulation?
cheerfuldom 01:47 PM 07-01-2012
My state does not require children or relatives to be counted in numbers. Unfortunately, i see many people take advantage of this. However, i don't. My own 3 children are not counted in my numbers.
The pros for parents/state is that because of my family, my home is childproof already and I am experienced in one way because of motherhood (I have experience elsewhere). I can relate to what my daycare parents are going thru because I am right there with them. Plus, I personally feel that providers with families are, in general, are more stable and reliable.....its not like a 20 year old college student that will work at a daycare for 3 months and then quit when things get boring. My own kids grow very attached to my daycare kids and there is a stability in seeing the same friends every day. I am not saying that these points can only be achieved by being a mother but in my case, I see them as pros.
Cons are that I am on duty all the time because my kids are young and i really dont get a break from the general daycare type environment.
The pros for parents/state is that because of my family, my home is childproof already and I am experienced in one way because of motherhood (I have experience elsewhere). I can relate to what my daycare parents are going thru because I am right there with them. Plus, I personally feel that providers with families are, in general, are more stable and reliable.....its not like a 20 year old college student that will work at a daycare for 3 months and then quit when things get boring. My own kids grow very attached to my daycare kids and there is a stability in seeing the same friends every day. I am not saying that these points can only be achieved by being a mother but in my case, I see them as pros.
Cons are that I am on duty all the time because my kids are young and i really dont get a break from the general daycare type environment.
MommyofThree 02:21 PM 07-01-2012
Originally Posted by spud912:
So I take it you only want reasons as to why they shouldn't count in the ratios.
I think this post is good for you because you should know all sides (not just people sharing your opinion) before you write a letter to the state. You need to be able to argue all points.
is that what I said.um no. I asked for pros and cons. cons mean bad as well so no I want both sides not just one side. please re read my other postsSo I take it you only want reasons as to why they shouldn't count in the ratios.
I think this post is good for you because you should know all sides (not just people sharing your opinion) before you write a letter to the state. You need to be able to argue all points.
Blackcat31 03:31 PM 07-01-2012
I tried really hard to come up with a list of pros and cons as to why you should and shouldn't count your own children and the only thing I keep thinking of is your statement that your 2 year old is really well behaved.
My sister thinks her 4 year old is a super responsible and well behaved child too. He cut the neighbors cats hair off the other day when she wasn't directly supervising him (because he doesn't really need supervision since he is so well behaved
).
Point being that what one person thinks is well behaved and not too much trouble is vastly different than what another person feels is the definition of well behaved or a good kid....kwim?
In that respect, ALL children should and need to be counted in your ratios unless they are basically old enough to stay home alone for short periods of time. My state does this in limiting the number of children I can have in specific age groups and limits the number of adults to children as they age since getting older means requiring less supervision in most cases.
I don't really understant what it is that you are trying to convey to your licensing department about not having to count your own children unless you are trying to change the laws...and that isn't going to happen as the trends in ECE and child care have been leaning towards cutting back on large group care settings with only one adult and strengthening the rules about supervision between adults and the number of children in care.
Too much liability when watching other people's children. The number of deaths that occur in child cares seem to increase every year....I have no statistical data I just know I can't open a newspaper or watch the news without hearing of another child dying in daycare.
If you are trying to get a variance for the number of children you have, why not simply state what precaustions you are going to take such as more barriers, adding video cameras, hiring a helper, or any other detail that will ensure that you are still going to give the additional child the same care and supervision you would any other child you have in care.
I also want to mention that the posters here are trying to answer your VERY vague question so getting snippy at them when they take the time to respend in the first place isn't helping. I don't mean to sound rude but from what I can tell, this thread IS confusing and I have read all the posts and your responses and I am still confused as to what it is you are actually asking.
My sister thinks her 4 year old is a super responsible and well behaved child too. He cut the neighbors cats hair off the other day when she wasn't directly supervising him (because he doesn't really need supervision since he is so well behaved
). Point being that what one person thinks is well behaved and not too much trouble is vastly different than what another person feels is the definition of well behaved or a good kid....kwim?
In that respect, ALL children should and need to be counted in your ratios unless they are basically old enough to stay home alone for short periods of time. My state does this in limiting the number of children I can have in specific age groups and limits the number of adults to children as they age since getting older means requiring less supervision in most cases.
I don't really understant what it is that you are trying to convey to your licensing department about not having to count your own children unless you are trying to change the laws...and that isn't going to happen as the trends in ECE and child care have been leaning towards cutting back on large group care settings with only one adult and strengthening the rules about supervision between adults and the number of children in care.
Too much liability when watching other people's children. The number of deaths that occur in child cares seem to increase every year....I have no statistical data I just know I can't open a newspaper or watch the news without hearing of another child dying in daycare.
If you are trying to get a variance for the number of children you have, why not simply state what precaustions you are going to take such as more barriers, adding video cameras, hiring a helper, or any other detail that will ensure that you are still going to give the additional child the same care and supervision you would any other child you have in care.
I also want to mention that the posters here are trying to answer your VERY vague question so getting snippy at them when they take the time to respend in the first place isn't helping. I don't mean to sound rude but from what I can tell, this thread IS confusing and I have read all the posts and your responses and I am still confused as to what it is you are actually asking.
MommyofThree 04:35 PM 07-01-2012
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I tried really hard to come up with a list of pros and cons as to why you should and shouldn't count your own children and the only thing I keep thinking of is your statement that your 2 year old is really well behaved.
My sister thinks her 4 year old is a super responsible and well behaved child too. He cut the neighbors cats hair off the other day when she wasn't directly supervising him (because he doesn't really need supervision since he is so well behaved).
Point being that what one person thinks is well behaved and not too much trouble is vastly different than what another person feels is the definition of well behaved or a good kid....kwim?
In that respect, ALL children should and need to be counted in your ratios unless they are basically old enough to stay home alone for short periods of time. My state does this in limiting the number of children I can have in specific age groups and limits the number of adults to children as they age since getting older means requiring less supervision in most cases.
I don't really understant what it is that you are trying to convey to your licensing department about not having to count your own children unless you are trying to change the laws...and that isn't going to happen as the trends in ECE and child care have been leaning towards cutting back on large group care settings with only one adult and strengthening the rules about supervision between adults and the number of children in care.
Too much liability when watching other people's children. The number of deaths that occur in child cares seem to increase every year....I have no statistical data I just know I can't open a newspaper or watch the news without hearing of another child dying in daycare.
If you are trying to get a variance for the number of children you have, why not simply state what precaustions you are going to take such as more barriers, adding video cameras, hiring a helper, or any other detail that will ensure that you are still going to give the additional child the same care and supervision you would any other child you have in care.
I also want to mention that the posters here are trying to answer your VERY vague question so getting snippy at them when they take the time to respend in the first place isn't helping. I don't mean to sound rude but from what I can tell, this thread IS confusing and I have read all the posts and your responses and I am still confused as to what it is you are actually asking.
One I got snippy with someone who thinks I want a one sided answer.. No that is not the case. CONFUSING??? OK I am asking what are the PROS of having your children counted in your numbers and what are the CONS of having your children counted in your numbers. Sorry but I dont know how much more clear I can be. I would just like to know. My two year old is the only one counted in my numbers. MY older two are not but yet they have to follow daycare rules like not going upstairs in their own bedrooms. that to me is a con. thank youI tried really hard to come up with a list of pros and cons as to why you should and shouldn't count your own children and the only thing I keep thinking of is your statement that your 2 year old is really well behaved.
My sister thinks her 4 year old is a super responsible and well behaved child too. He cut the neighbors cats hair off the other day when she wasn't directly supervising him (because he doesn't really need supervision since he is so well behaved
). Point being that what one person thinks is well behaved and not too much trouble is vastly different than what another person feels is the definition of well behaved or a good kid....kwim?
In that respect, ALL children should and need to be counted in your ratios unless they are basically old enough to stay home alone for short periods of time. My state does this in limiting the number of children I can have in specific age groups and limits the number of adults to children as they age since getting older means requiring less supervision in most cases.
I don't really understant what it is that you are trying to convey to your licensing department about not having to count your own children unless you are trying to change the laws...and that isn't going to happen as the trends in ECE and child care have been leaning towards cutting back on large group care settings with only one adult and strengthening the rules about supervision between adults and the number of children in care.
Too much liability when watching other people's children. The number of deaths that occur in child cares seem to increase every year....I have no statistical data I just know I can't open a newspaper or watch the news without hearing of another child dying in daycare.
If you are trying to get a variance for the number of children you have, why not simply state what precaustions you are going to take such as more barriers, adding video cameras, hiring a helper, or any other detail that will ensure that you are still going to give the additional child the same care and supervision you would any other child you have in care.
I also want to mention that the posters here are trying to answer your VERY vague question so getting snippy at them when they take the time to respend in the first place isn't helping. I don't mean to sound rude but from what I can tell, this thread IS confusing and I have read all the posts and your responses and I am still confused as to what it is you are actually asking.
sharlan 05:07 PM 07-01-2012
Have you seen it in writing that your older children cannot go upstairs during daycare hours?
My gs is allowed to go upstairs during daycare hours when his 16 yo sister or mom is home. He is still counted in my numbers, but is not under my supervision. (Does that make sense?)
My kids were allowed to have friends over as long as they kids were able to come and go on their own. In other words, as long as the kids could walk or ride their bikes home, they didn't count.
My gs is allowed to go upstairs during daycare hours when his 16 yo sister or mom is home. He is still counted in my numbers, but is not under my supervision. (Does that make sense?)
My kids were allowed to have friends over as long as they kids were able to come and go on their own. In other words, as long as the kids could walk or ride their bikes home, they didn't count.
Lucy 05:15 PM 07-01-2012
I'm not criticizing the OP here, just giving my thoughts on the subject in general. I mean no offense to anyone.
Personally, I don't see a reason for your own kids NOT to be counted in your numbers. Why would they be considered "free", so to speak? When you go outside, you (a generic "you", not the OP) have 9 to watch out for rather than 6 (for example). If there's a fire, you have 7 kids to get out of the house rather than 5 (for example). When you are occupied with making lunch (and we all know kids act up when they think we are otherwise-occupied), there are 8 kids who could possibly fall down and hurt themselves rather than 4 (for example). I could go on and on. And I don't think "well-behaved" is a reason to not count them. No matter how disciplined they are, they can still get hurt by someone else. A bigger number is more work and more exposure to accidents, and therefore I feel they should be counted.
Personally, I don't see a reason for your own kids NOT to be counted in your numbers. Why would they be considered "free", so to speak? When you go outside, you (a generic "you", not the OP) have 9 to watch out for rather than 6 (for example). If there's a fire, you have 7 kids to get out of the house rather than 5 (for example). When you are occupied with making lunch (and we all know kids act up when they think we are otherwise-occupied), there are 8 kids who could possibly fall down and hurt themselves rather than 4 (for example). I could go on and on. And I don't think "well-behaved" is a reason to not count them. No matter how disciplined they are, they can still get hurt by someone else. A bigger number is more work and more exposure to accidents, and therefore I feel they should be counted.
dave4him 05:22 PM 07-01-2012
We have to count or kids in the numbers, however the food programs do not allow us to account for our own kids. So i gave up using the food program since i was spending twice as much money and getting very little in return
BumbleBee 05:57 PM 07-01-2012
Pro's:
More supervision, less chance of injury, more individual attention
Con's:
Less income, own children not being able to enjoy their home during daycare hours.
That is all I can think of at the moment.
More supervision, less chance of injury, more individual attention
Con's:
Less income, own children not being able to enjoy their home during daycare hours.
That is all I can think of at the moment.
BumbleBee 06:09 PM 07-01-2012
Originally Posted by MommyofThree:
Thank you. I have two school age chilren that cant do things like have friends over or go up stairs in their rooms because they count in my numbers. My two year old also is well behaved where I dont need to have him count in my numbers. He is allowed to be out of my site on weekends like upstairs with his siblings or out in our fenced yard withn out me if his older siblings are out with him but since he is consider one of my daycare kids I cant let him be free in his own home. I also agree with you that I have no issues with my own children so I dont get why some have more issues with their kids m ore then the daycare kids.
Thank you. I have two school age chilren that cant do things like have friends over or go up stairs in their rooms because they count in my numbers. My two year old also is well behaved where I dont need to have him count in my numbers. He is allowed to be out of my site on weekends like upstairs with his siblings or out in our fenced yard withn out me if his older siblings are out with him but since he is consider one of my daycare kids I cant let him be free in his own home. I also agree with you that I have no issues with my own children so I dont get why some have more issues with their kids m ore then the daycare kids.
Originally Posted by MommyofThree:
One I got snippy with someone who thinks I want a one sided answer.. No that is not the case. CONFUSING??? OK I am asking what are the PROS of having your children counted in your numbers and what are the CONS of having your children counted in your numbers. Sorry but I dont know how much more clear I can be. I would just like to know. My two year old is the only one counted in my numbers. MY older two are not but yet they have to follow daycare rules like not going upstairs in their own bedrooms. that to me is a con. thank you
So are your school age children counted in your numbers or are they not counted in your numbers? If they are not, why can't they be in their own rooms? I guess I'm not understanding why they have to follow daycare rules if they aren't in your numbers. I can see not allowing daycare children in your school aged children's rooms but your own school aged children should be allowed. As far as the 2 year old, I can understand counting him/her and agree with it.One I got snippy with someone who thinks I want a one sided answer.. No that is not the case. CONFUSING??? OK I am asking what are the PROS of having your children counted in your numbers and what are the CONS of having your children counted in your numbers. Sorry but I dont know how much more clear I can be. I would just like to know. My two year old is the only one counted in my numbers. MY older two are not but yet they have to follow daycare rules like not going upstairs in their own bedrooms. that to me is a con. thank you
DCBlessings27 06:35 PM 07-01-2012
Cons: Older children can't have friends over during daycare hours if it puts you over your limit, own children must follow daycare rules instead of having freedoms in their own homes. If a provider has multiple children, income is less due to own children counting in numbers. My dd is 3, and I'm pregnant. When my baby comes, my income goes down because I now have 2 of my 6 spots taken instead of just one. That's 1/3 of potential income because I only take children from infant-5.
Pros: The limits that states have generally have good reasoning to ensure that a provider can handle only a certain amount of children in an emergency or on a daily basis.
These are the pros and cons I can think of right now. I don't always like that my children count in my numbers (KS), but I can understand the reasoning. I also wouldn't want to try to take on too many children by myself. My own children count in my numbers until they turn 12. Since I'm pregnant and my dd is 3, I haven't had to deal with the issue of having friends over that count in my numbers. DD also loves having her friends over, so she doesn't care if she has to follow daycare rules. I am, however, allowed to have up to 4 school-age children in addition to 6 children under 4 (depending on the number of infants I have). IMO, 10 children is plenty for me by myself. I only care for 6 children anyway.
Pros: The limits that states have generally have good reasoning to ensure that a provider can handle only a certain amount of children in an emergency or on a daily basis.
These are the pros and cons I can think of right now. I don't always like that my children count in my numbers (KS), but I can understand the reasoning. I also wouldn't want to try to take on too many children by myself. My own children count in my numbers until they turn 12. Since I'm pregnant and my dd is 3, I haven't had to deal with the issue of having friends over that count in my numbers. DD also loves having her friends over, so she doesn't care if she has to follow daycare rules. I am, however, allowed to have up to 4 school-age children in addition to 6 children under 4 (depending on the number of infants I have). IMO, 10 children is plenty for me by myself. I only care for 6 children anyway.
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
In that respect, ALL children should and need to be counted in your ratios unless they are basically old enough to stay home alone for short periods of time. My state does this in limiting the number of children I can have in specific age groups and limits the number of adults to children as they age since getting older means requiring less supervision in most cases.
I don't really understant what it is that you are trying to convey to your licensing department about not having to count your own children unless you are trying to change the laws...and that isn't going to happen as the trends in ECE and child care have been leaning towards cutting back on large group care settings with only one adult and strengthening the rules about supervision between adults and the number of children in care.
Too much liability when watching other people's children. The number of deaths that occur in child cares seem to increase every year....I have no statistical data I just know I can't open a newspaper or watch the news without hearing of another child dying in daycare.
I agree with Blackcat. I bolded the parts I really agree with. When KS made everyone who wasn't inspected (registered homes) become licensed a couple years ago, we were told that they were making the rules strict because of the deaths/accidents in daycares. I have been surprised by how many states don't have licensing requirements since I've been on this site. (I don't have anything against anyone who is legally unlicensed. We just don't have that here.) I was given the impression that we had to have better regulations due to needing to be on par with other states.In that respect, ALL children should and need to be counted in your ratios unless they are basically old enough to stay home alone for short periods of time. My state does this in limiting the number of children I can have in specific age groups and limits the number of adults to children as they age since getting older means requiring less supervision in most cases.
I don't really understant what it is that you are trying to convey to your licensing department about not having to count your own children unless you are trying to change the laws...and that isn't going to happen as the trends in ECE and child care have been leaning towards cutting back on large group care settings with only one adult and strengthening the rules about supervision between adults and the number of children in care.
Too much liability when watching other people's children. The number of deaths that occur in child cares seem to increase every year....I have no statistical data I just know I can't open a newspaper or watch the news without hearing of another child dying in daycare.
Hunni Bee 07:23 PM 07-01-2012
Right now, I don't have any children of my own, but they would not count in my numbers in my state. I definitely plan on having my 2-year-old nephew in my care, but I think he will count as he wont be living in my house (I hope )
But, not getting on my soapbox about high caregiver/child ratios...
Pros: being able to take more kids, kids wont be bound to daycare rules in their own home
Cons: providers biting off more than they can chew, overcrowding, emergencies. Especially if theyre young. If you have 3 infants and 5 toddlers, even though 3 of them may belong to you...its still going to hard as hell to manage every one safely in an emergency.
A few summers ago, one of the teachers set the microwave on fire at my center. There wasn't really any flames, but lots of horrible smoke, so they evacuated the building. It was naptime. I didn't know what happened as far as the microwave, all I saw was the fire alarm going off. As far as I knew, it was a fire. I had to get 11 very sleepy, very confused preschoolers down the stairs to safety ALONE. I cant tell you the panic I felt.
So I'm guessing, situations like that are the logic behind including the providers own children in their numbers...just my guess.
)But, not getting on my soapbox about high caregiver/child ratios...
Pros: being able to take more kids, kids wont be bound to daycare rules in their own home
Cons: providers biting off more than they can chew, overcrowding, emergencies. Especially if theyre young. If you have 3 infants and 5 toddlers, even though 3 of them may belong to you...its still going to hard as hell to manage every one safely in an emergency.
A few summers ago, one of the teachers set the microwave on fire at my center. There wasn't really any flames, but lots of horrible smoke, so they evacuated the building. It was naptime. I didn't know what happened as far as the microwave, all I saw was the fire alarm going off. As far as I knew, it was a fire. I had to get 11 very sleepy, very confused preschoolers down the stairs to safety ALONE. I cant tell you the panic I felt.
So I'm guessing, situations like that are the logic behind including the providers own children in their numbers...just my guess.
thatdivalady 09:28 PM 07-01-2012
Hmmmm. I thought children only counted in your numbers when their caretaker is not on the premises. In other words, if their caretaker can take them at anytime they do not count. According to PA regulations that is the case. So I switch with my mother who helps with my daughter and either one of us can take her off site and the other can tend to the dc. My daughter is also not part of the daycare.
Solandia 04:14 AM 07-02-2012
Yes & no. I think they should count when little and on premises, but not at all after a certain age (like 9/10?yo).
As it is, a child "counts" until their 12th birthday. AND they "count" my kids regardless if they are they are here -or- at school or at grandma's for the week. I really bites since the vast majority of the time, my older kids have sport practice, extra band practice, a G&T session & doesn't get home until around when my daycare kids get picked up.
So, up until last year, i had 4 of my own kids, and until they are in 7th grade-ish, they count in my numbers 100% of the time. So, licensing rules states a max of 8 kids, my actual paper license only has 4. So in practice, when/if all the kids are in school...i can still only have 4 daycare kids at my house at any given time.
As it is, a child "counts" until their 12th birthday. AND they "count" my kids regardless if they are they are here -or- at school or at grandma's for the week. I really bites since the vast majority of the time, my older kids have sport practice, extra band practice, a G&T session & doesn't get home until around when my daycare kids get picked up.
So, up until last year, i had 4 of my own kids, and until they are in 7th grade-ish, they count in my numbers 100% of the time. So, licensing rules states a max of 8 kids, my actual paper license only has 4. So in practice, when/if all the kids are in school...i can still only have 4 daycare kids at my house at any given time.
Springdaze 07:18 AM 07-02-2012
Before I answer, it would depend on how many non related you are allowed. I am only allowed 5 non related. if i had to count my own, I couldnt make much money, however NOT counting my kids I could only have up to 8 I think because only 3 of my own would not count (after 3 or maybe 4, they count.) of course if you are allowed to take like 8 not not related, yours should also count.
especially when they get to be school age, they shouldnt count. i wouldnt be able to keep spots open for my kids of the days they have off and for the summer.
especially when they get to be school age, they shouldnt count. i wouldnt be able to keep spots open for my kids of the days they have off and for the summer.
Kiki 07:50 AM 07-02-2012
Originally Posted by MommyofThree:
My two year old is the only one counted in my numbers. MY older two are not but yet they have to follow daycare rules like not going upstairs in their own bedrooms. that to me is a con. thank you
I don't understand why your children can't go up into their bedrooms, does it say somewhere in your rules that you can't allow them free roam of the home? And how does them not being counted into your numbers suddenly open the option for them to be able to have that free roam? My two year old is the only one counted in my numbers. MY older two are not but yet they have to follow daycare rules like not going upstairs in their own bedrooms. that to me is a con. thank you
You kind of..live there, that is THEIR home.
Sorry if I sound snippy and mean, but I'm so very confused as of to why they aren't able to be in their own bedrooms, or in their own area of their own home. That they live in. All of the time.
I can tell you the pros and cons of Utah, because I know their max child ratio to caregiver. I can't tell you yours because I don't know your ratio. And by ratio I mean the number of children you are allowed to have in your home at all times, not the number you are allowed to be compensated for, there should be two separate numbers.
DCBlessings27 08:17 AM 07-02-2012
Originally Posted by Kiki:
I don't understand why your children can't go up into their bedrooms, does it say somewhere in your rules that you can't allow them free roam of the home? And how does them not being counted into your numbers suddenly open the option for them to be able to have that free roam?
You kind of..live there, that is THEIR home.
Sorry if I sound snippy and mean, but I'm so very confused as of to why they aren't able to be in their own bedrooms, or in their own area of their own home. That they live in. All of the time.
I don't know what state the OP lives in, but my own children wouldn't be allowed to have free roam of my house until they were 12 bc they count in daycare numbers. For example, if I had an upstairs, we can't use upstairs for daycare. Thus, my own children would be stuck in the daycare areas even if their bedrooms were upstairs--according to our regulations.I don't understand why your children can't go up into their bedrooms, does it say somewhere in your rules that you can't allow them free roam of the home? And how does them not being counted into your numbers suddenly open the option for them to be able to have that free roam?
You kind of..live there, that is THEIR home.
Sorry if I sound snippy and mean, but I'm so very confused as of to why they aren't able to be in their own bedrooms, or in their own area of their own home. That they live in. All of the time.
Crystal 10:13 AM 07-02-2012
OP, could you tell me what state you are in?
MommyofThree 10:18 AM 07-02-2012
Originally Posted by Crystal:
OP, could you tell me what state you are in?
NY. Thank you everyone for ur great comments. It helps.OP, could you tell me what state you are in?
Crystal 10:32 AM 07-02-2012
Pros of provider's own children NOT being counted in numbers:
For provider - can care for more paying children, resulting in higher income. Child can have friends over, though I think the friends would count in the numbers anyway.
For licensing and other children in care - NONE.
Cons of provider's own child not counting in numbers:
for provider - taking on additional paying clients and having higher ratios, in addition to own children results in heavier work load, more likely to burn out
Licensing and other children in care - higher probability of provider being stretched to thin, more likely to have issues arise such as injuries to children in care. Less space per child because more children = more use of existing space. Because of higher ratios, licensing would have to be more diligent about unannounced inspections, etc. which may require licensing to hire additional staff and use more resources. Children in care would recieve less individualized and one-on-one attention due to higher ratios. Larger group may result in a more "chaotic" atmosphere, which is stressful for children and the provider.
For provider - can care for more paying children, resulting in higher income. Child can have friends over, though I think the friends would count in the numbers anyway.
For licensing and other children in care - NONE.
Cons of provider's own child not counting in numbers:
for provider - taking on additional paying clients and having higher ratios, in addition to own children results in heavier work load, more likely to burn out
Licensing and other children in care - higher probability of provider being stretched to thin, more likely to have issues arise such as injuries to children in care. Less space per child because more children = more use of existing space. Because of higher ratios, licensing would have to be more diligent about unannounced inspections, etc. which may require licensing to hire additional staff and use more resources. Children in care would recieve less individualized and one-on-one attention due to higher ratios. Larger group may result in a more "chaotic" atmosphere, which is stressful for children and the provider.
jojosmommy 11:24 AM 07-02-2012
I can't say I have any personal experience with this but my neighbor does. She does daycare and has 5 kids. Her oldest one has special needs and has a full time PCA while at home. Lic still requires her to count him in numbers. Her oldest kids also like to play in their backyard with friends. If each of her three older kids had one friend over and her son was home (with his PCA mind you) she would be allowed 2 dck. 2! Her oldest kids are old enough to stay in the fully fenced yard, use the rest room on their own, feed themselves snack, for the majority take care of their personal and interpersonal needs.
Because of lic she can not allow her own kids to have their friends over-or she would be over lic rules. So never can her kids plan a sleep over where the kids come home from school with hers.
I do however agree with whomever said the rules are for everyone, not a case by case thing and lic does not know your house, your kids, your situation. One person could take a rule where their kids were exempt and mistreat it, causing other peoples kids real harm.
I think your kids need to be counted in the ratio (not matter how stinky that may be for you) for the safety of everyone.
Because of lic she can not allow her own kids to have their friends over-or she would be over lic rules. So never can her kids plan a sleep over where the kids come home from school with hers.
I do however agree with whomever said the rules are for everyone, not a case by case thing and lic does not know your house, your kids, your situation. One person could take a rule where their kids were exempt and mistreat it, causing other peoples kids real harm.
I think your kids need to be counted in the ratio (not matter how stinky that may be for you) for the safety of everyone.