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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Parents Secretly Recorded Me, Threatening To Report
Unregistered 11:20 AM 11-03-2017
Hi,

I logged out for privacy as this is a sensitive matter.

I have a family who just called and said they are no longer interested in my care. They not only don't want to pay their last two weeks, but are asking for their deposit back! They told me that they have a recording of me putting their one year old in time out and that they'll report me if I don't give them the deposit back. Obviously this can't be legal! I just dealt with a crazy family a few months ago, who reported me to licensing to get out of paying their last week. Licensing saw through it but I don't want to deal with it all again! I've already put a call in to them and am waiting to hear back. The current family definitely babied their little one and I am more strict, but obviously didn't do anything harmful. (Also, to note, I just started the time outs this week and they were totally working!). Any advice? It freaks me out that they might call the news or something crazy.

Thanks
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hwichlaz 11:28 AM 11-03-2017
What state are you in? Is it legal to put a 1 year old in time out? Some states are one party notification recording states, and others require all parties know.
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Annalee 11:31 AM 11-03-2017
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Hi,

I logged out for privacy as this is a sensitive matter.

I have a family who just called and said they are no longer interested in my care. They not only don't want to pay their last two weeks, but are asking for their deposit back! They told me that they have a recording of me putting their one year old in time out and that they'll report me if I don't give them the deposit back. Obviously this can't be legal! I just dealt with a crazy family a few months ago, who reported me to licensing to get out of paying their last week. Licensing saw through it but I don't want to deal with it all again! I've already put a call in to them and am waiting to hear back. The current family definitely babied their little one and I am more strict, but obviously didn't do anything harmful. (Also, to note, I just started the time outs this week and they were totally working!). Any advice? It freaks me out that they might call the news or something crazy.

Thanks
I am going to follow this thread because I had a client laughingly mention how cheap nanny cams are and how easy they were to hide nowadays. Ironically she brought in a stuffed bear that day but I sent it back home quickly as I do not allow outside toys. Kind of made me leery!
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Unregistered 11:31 AM 11-03-2017
I'm in CA, so it is illegal to record without consent. As for time outs, I don't know but can't imagine it's illegal?
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hwichlaz 11:35 AM 11-03-2017
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I'm in CA, so it is illegal to record without consent. As for time outs, I don't know but can't imagine it's illegal?

Yes the recording is illegal. It can't be used as evidence. And time-outs are only allowed at 1 min per year of age.
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hwichlaz 11:37 AM 11-03-2017
Here's the thing, you won't be shut down over a timeout, but you could get a violation for inappropriate discipline.

If that's all that's on the recording, I'd call their bluff. Call the police and file a report of blackmail and illegal recording.
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amberrose3dg 11:41 AM 11-03-2017
I am not sure what to say about that. If you did nothing wrong other then put in time out I would say it is just a way of getting what they want. I would simply tell them recording without your consent is illegal and let them know you know that. Recording you is most likely a bigger offense and they should back down.
Sorry you are dealing with such a crazy family.
Our state allows time outs, a minute per age.
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hwichlaz 11:48 AM 11-03-2017
illegal recording and extortion/blackmail carry pretty high penalties in california.

I'd send them the following messages...

California's wiretapping law is a "two-party consent" law. California makes it a crime to record or eavesdrop on any confidential communication, including a private conversation or telephone call, without the consent of all parties to the conversation. See Cal. Penal Code § 632.

and

Extortion in most cases is a California felony. The penalties are two (2), three (3) or four (4) years in county jail, and/or a ten thousand dollar ($10,000) fine.4
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hwichlaz 11:48 AM 11-03-2017
Punishments for Violating Penal Code 631. Wiretapping is a “wobbler” crime; meaning that it may be charged either as a misdemeanor or a felony. Misdemeanor violations are punishable by a maximum fine of $2,500, or imprisonment in the county jail for up to 364 days, or both.Feb 6, 2015
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daycarediva 11:53 AM 11-03-2017
I wouldn't put a 1 year old in time out, but I would TOTALLY call their bluff on this.

I would send back information about the legality of illegally recording you, and an invoice for the last two weeks of care (or whatever they owe you).
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hwichlaz 12:03 PM 11-03-2017
Send it via email or text so that you have a record of how they respond.

Dear Douchey-Fam,

Re: your phone call on 11/2/17 at 8:08pm PST

I'm certain that you know the penalties for illegally recording someone and using the recording for extortion in the state of California, or you would have sent your threats in writing.

I will NOT be blackmailed.

Here's an invoice for the amount you owe me. I've attached the California Penal Code for the crimes you've committed against me, along with the possible penalties. Should you choose to continue on your crime spree, I'll contact the local police department and the DA's office to press charges.
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Michael 12:10 PM 11-03-2017
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I'm in CA, so it is illegal to record without consent. As for time outs, I don't know but can't imagine it's illegal?
It's illegal to record somebody in California without the other party's permission. I will go to police to file a police report.

If they leave a phone message recording threatening you, you CAN legally use that recording as evidence.
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Unregistered 12:12 PM 11-03-2017
I would get an email confirmation that they recorded you, before mentioning to them that it was illegal.
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Unregistered 12:20 PM 11-03-2017
I would also not discuss this any further with them on the phone at all. Document all further written contact and number of times they call you.

Send notice of amount due according to contract, without any mention of recording.
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hwichlaz 01:09 PM 11-03-2017
Originally Posted by Michael:
It's illegal to record somebody in California without the other party's permission. I will go to police to file a police report.

If they leave a phone message recording threatening you, you CAN legally use that recording as evidence.
You know, going straight to the police is probably your best bet. The police will go interview them and tell them that it's illegal and that using the recording would be proof of illegal activity. Then they'll likely back down.
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nannyde 01:50 PM 11-03-2017
Have you figured out how they did it? Were they aware you were going to use time out before you did it? If they didn't that would be proof they actually did record you.

I don't know what state you are in. In Iowa it is illegal to do this BUT there is a clause in the law that allows it if a parent feels a child is in danger.

I think that is more designed for court ordered visitation rather than daycare. Possibly it is there to protect parents who send their children on busses or school. I don't know how it would fly with daycare because if the parents were fearing for their child's safety they shouldn't be taking them to the daycare period. It isn't required to send your child to daycare and they have the choice of other daycare's.

I think this is going to become VERY common. I would be thinking back on the entire day... every phone call ... every interaction with my family or staff... and thinking of everything they now have recorded.

Time out for a one year old... well that depends on how one. A new one year old ... nah but one closing in on two... maybe. I don't find it particularly effective the way the recommendations are now with a minute per age.
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happymom 02:05 PM 11-03-2017
They are gutsy!

I was upset when I was told that my 1 year old was being put in time out. I personally did not feel it was appropriate at his level of development at the time.

Never in my life could I imagine doing this though. WOW!! I hope this pans out in your favor, this is extremely unfair (and seems very trivial, like something that could have been worked out with the client)...............
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Michael 02:13 PM 11-03-2017
Originally Posted by nannyde:
Have you figured out how they did it?
Most likely a toy that that they brought in that records or monitors.
https://www.google.com/amp/amp.wsbtv...-you/522108976
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284878 02:26 PM 11-03-2017
Any update?

I agree with nanny and Michael. Document everything that happened that day, including all items that came in that day.
Then file a police report.
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Mom2Two 03:13 PM 11-03-2017
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I would get an email confirmation that they recorded you, before mentioning to them that it was illegal.
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I would also not discuss this any further with them on the phone at all. Document all further written contact and number of times they call you.

Send notice of amount due according to contract, without any mention of recording.


Originally Posted by nannyde:
Have you figured out how they did it? Were they aware you were going to use time out before you did it? If they didn't that would be proof they actually did record you.

Time out for a one year old... well that depends on how one. A new one year old ... nah but one closing in on two... maybe. I don't find it particularly effective the way the recommendations are now with a minute per age.


ITA with the above.

Re: the time-outs, do you have a guidance policy in your written policies?

Assuming that they really have nothing significant on you, maybe do a little research about guidance for time-outs. IMO the term is used to mean different things. I personally would do a calm-down time for a one-year-old, and if that's more like what you were doing, maybe work on an explanation. Not that I think you'd need one, but I would feel more at peace about it if it were me.
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Unregistered 04:05 PM 11-03-2017
I use time out in a case by case instance, depending on the child. This child seemed to comprehend it and it was used along with positive reinforcement!

She hasn't admitted in writing that she recorded me, just asked again for the deposit back. She then threatened to stop payment on this week's check when I said no. I just sent an email and attached my contract and said they would have to adhere to what they agreed to. She hasn't even given written notice. We will see what's next.

Thanks for all your help!
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nannyde 04:20 PM 11-03-2017
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I use time out in a case by case instance, depending on the child. This child seemed to comprehend it and it was used along with positive reinforcement!

She hasn't admitted in writing that she recorded me, just asked again for the deposit back. She then threatened to stop payment on this week's check when I said no. I just sent an email and attached my contract and said they would have to adhere to what they agreed to. She hasn't even given written notice. We will see what's next.

Thanks for all your help!
What did she use to record you?
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Unregistered 05:12 PM 11-03-2017
Originally Posted by nannyde:
What did she use to record you?
I don't know, she just said she had. They brought a daily bag so I assume it was hidden in there? So creepy to think about!

I told them it was illegal, but haven't contacted police... I called licensing to give them a heads up.
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Buttercup 08:45 PM 11-03-2017
That's awful, I hope they pay up and leave you alone!! I agree with nannyde, why were they still sending their kid to you if they felt you needed to be secretly recorded???? Sounds like they are just bluffing and throwing an adult tantrum about losing their deposit.

Geez, this makes me not want to allow *any* items from home in my future daycare. Not even comfort items for nap
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HappyEverAfter 10:42 PM 11-03-2017
People are so ridiculous these days. I cannot believe they would do this to you. What a nightmare over nothing!

Personally, I use time out with my 15mth old. We just began using it this month and it seems to be helping. The way I do mine is, she gets two verbal rule reminders/warnings and if the behavior continues I take her to the time out spot in the corner of the hallway (where there are no visual distractions) and stand there with her for 30-60 seconds. When time is up, I get down on her level, remind her to follow the rules, give her a hug and tell her she can go play now. It works well usually. Often one warning is all I have to give her. She understands what a "no-no" is and if you ask her what happens if you do a no-no, she will point to the corner of the hallway and say "no-no". Both her parents and I feel time out is appropriate for her. Out of curiosity, for those who say they don't do time out, what do you do for discipline of 1-2yr olds? I'd love to have other options if I ever needed them.
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nannyde 02:20 AM 11-04-2017
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I don't know, she just said she had. They brought a daily bag so I assume it was hidden in there? So creepy to think about!

I told them it was illegal, but haven't contacted police... I called licensing to give them a heads up.
Did they know about you beginning to use time out last week? Did you discuss it with them at any point before you started using it?

They are going to report you whether you give the money back or not. If you refund they will do it after they receive it. They will most likely cancel the check they wrote.

I'm assuming you allowed them to pay behind if you are saying they don't want to pay for the last two weeks.

Lesson learned.

Nothing goes back and forth from the home except the kid. Put any outerwear the child brings in the winter in a room away from the daycare. Check pockets when they come in. Always make them pay ahead for the week.

A former staff assistant of mine had her x husband send a very small (like the size of a thin lighter) in her kids cargo pants pocket during her time. It recorded up to eight hours or something on a memory stick. She found it and took it to the police. That was years ago so I'm sure the memory capability is even longer now. It was a cheap recorder he got off of Ebay from China but it worked. Like thirty bucks or something.
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sharlan 04:15 PM 11-04-2017
I've learned from here - nothing crosses the front door but the child. Jackets and shoes go straight into cubbies.

School backpacks stay in the living room away from the kids.
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Leigh 05:14 PM 11-04-2017
Originally Posted by hwichlaz:
Here's the thing, you won't be shut down over a timeout, but you could get a violation for inappropriate discipline.

If that's all that's on the recording, I'd call their bluff. Call the police and file a report of blackmail and illegal recording.


And, I wouldn't even CONSIDER returning any funds. I'd make the police report TODAY.
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CeriBear 05:37 AM 11-05-2017
Threatening you and recording you without your consent is much more serious than your putting a 1 year old on time out. Why not just tell you that they’d rather you use another form of discipline?

And how old was this child? Was she 13 months or 22 months? There is a difference in how you might handle inappropriate behavior in the two ages. Personally I wouldn’t use a time out with a child who had just turned 1 but a toddler about to turn 2 needs to learn that certain behaviors have not so good consequences. I don’t call it a time-out but if a 23 month old hits his classmate I take him by the hand and have him sit by himself for a minute.
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Josiegirl 03:03 PM 11-05-2017
Originally Posted by CeridwenLynne:
Threatening you and recording you without your consent is much more serious than your putting a 1 year old on time out. Why not just tell you that they’d rather you use another form of discipline?
Definitely!!! I'd be so angry! A lot of nerve.
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DaveA 04:29 AM 11-06-2017
Originally Posted by Leigh:


And, I wouldn't even CONSIDER returning any funds. I'd make the police report TODAY.
Yes! Even the threat of doing something like that in my house would be an immediate term and take what ever action you can.
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Mom2Two 01:39 PM 11-06-2017
Originally Posted by CeridwenLynne:
Threatening you and recording you without your consent is much more serious than your putting a 1 year old on time out. Why not just tell you that they’d rather you use another form of discipline?

And how old was this child? Was she 13 months or 22 months? There is a difference in how you might handle inappropriate behavior in the two ages. Personally I wouldn’t use a time out with a child who had just turned 1 but a toddler about to turn 2 needs to learn that certain behaviors have not so good consequences. I don’t call it a time-out but if a 23 month old hits his classmate I take him by the hand and have him sit by himself for a minute.

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AmyKidsCo 02:04 PM 11-06-2017
Originally Posted by sharlan:
I've learned from here - nothing crosses the front door but the child. Jackets and shoes go straight into cubbies.

School backpacks stay in the living room away from the kids.
My cubbies are in the play room - now I'm all paranoid. Ugh.
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Josiegirl 03:22 AM 11-07-2017
Originally Posted by AmyKidsCo:
My cubbies are in the play room - now I'm all paranoid. Ugh.
Me too!! I don't think anybody would ever send anything in like that but I guess I'm being naive. It's not like I treat the children badly but once in awhile I find myself muttering and then thinking uh oh, did I just say that out loud?
And what's weird is, every child has their own cubby with a tote for their belongings. I have sent newsletters home, although not recently, stating to put extra clothes in their cubby and you don't need to bring anything else. Half the dcks still bring a backpack. Only 1 of them really needs to because he goes to school pt and has a bunch of different drop-off people so his back pack just stays with him.
OP, I sincerely hope everything turns out alright for you!! Please keep us updated.
This issue shouldn't even revolve around putting a 1 yo into TO or whether you told the parent beforehand. It revolves around the mutual trust between a parent and provider. What happened that she didn't trust you, how long has she been recording you, and to me it sounds like she's just been looking for a way out without paying the money owed.
Without us knowing all the details, it's really hard for us to understand the situation fully. But recording you?? And not speaking with you about anything??
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Play Care 04:08 AM 11-07-2017
Would love to have the OP come back and update.

I do allow bags (mostly because I sometimes have school agers and they have their backpacks) but store them in another room away from the child care area. But that's because I don't have time to go through the bags and see what's in them (medication, scissors, etc.) and don't want littles to get into them.
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hwichlaz 09:26 AM 11-07-2017
Originally Posted by Josiegirl:
Me too!! I don't think anybody would ever send anything in like that but I guess I'm being naive. It's not like I treat the children badly but once in awhile I find myself muttering and then thinking uh oh, did I just say that out loud?
And what's weird is, every child has their own cubby with a tote for their belongings. I have sent newsletters home, although not recently, stating to put extra clothes in their cubby and you don't need to bring anything else. Half the dcks still bring a backpack. Only 1 of them really needs to because he goes to school pt and has a bunch of different drop-off people so his back pack just stays with him.
OP, I sincerely hope everything turns out alright for you!! Please keep us updated.
This issue shouldn't even revolve around putting a 1 yo into TO or whether you told the parent beforehand. It revolves around the mutual trust between a parent and provider. What happened that she didn't trust you, how long has she been recording you, and to me it sounds like she's just been looking for a way out without paying the money owed.
Without us knowing all the details, it's really hard for us to understand the situation fully. But recording you?? And not speaking with you about anything??
I send the backpack right back to the car with the parent.
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Poptarts22 03:27 PM 11-15-2017
All diaper bags go in the closet by my front door. All book bags and coats go in the foyer on hooks. Nothing from home comes into the living area or toy room of my home. I got tired of parents expecting me to run back for a toy/blankie or something else their little one had brought in from home and forgotten somewhere in my home during the course of the day. This way, it’s all right there waiting for the trip home, and this post gives me added confirmation that this HAS to be the rule!
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284878 08:46 PM 11-21-2017
Update?
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nannyde 07:19 AM 11-24-2017
http://wavy.com/2017/11/21/mom-charg...ters-backpack/

YUP
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Tags:illegal surveillance, parents - accusing, recording, recording device, surveilance, surveillance, surveillance cameras, surveillance monitor
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