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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Opting Out of "Stars" Program Because....
Sugar Magnolia 04:49 PM 01-27-2014
I'm tired of being a square peg being rammed into a round hole.
Background for members who don't know me....

Small, multi-age center, only 15 students.
My husband is my business partner and co-lead teacher, one other staffer as an assistant.
I have college degree (BA), NOT in ECE, husband has AA, also not in ECE.
We enroll 1 to 5 year olds.
We have a play based curriculum.

This is our fourth year in the program.

They only want to evaluate same-age "classrooms" now. Well, we don't do that.
The director has to have a BA or higher in ECE. That's me, sorry degree in Anthropology, but enough ECE courses to be granted a Directors Credential.
They want 75 percent of lead teachers to have a BA or higher in any field. Well, with only 2 lead teachers, we are either 0%, 50% or 100%, not mathematically possible to have 75% with a staff of 2.
They want written evidence of monthly lead teacher staff meetings. Its called our dinner table, we're married, why write down 12 fake staff meetings?

These evaluators always rave about our program, environment, curriculum, family involvement, etc. We would be 5 stars without all that administrative junk.

We are basically a large family daycare in principal. We are a center for licensing purposes because we don't live in the building. They concede this, but this year they insist on evaluating same-age classrooms. I asked to be evaluated as a family child care, but that was not possible. Rules, ya know.

Why settle for 3 stars, when you AND the powers that be KNOW your environment warrant 5 stars?

Consequences.....we can no longer accept subsidy.
We will not be eligible for certain grants.
We will no longer appear in their advertisements.
My translation....."we're gonna hit you in the pocketbook if ya don't cooperate".

My center is not what they are accustomed to dealing with. Multi age approach, however, is something all you ladies can relate too......include the younger ones in play, improved vocabulary and language acquisition, roles of leadership for the older ones, greater pro-social behavior, etc. Siblings together, home like atmosphere, personal attention, the list goes on and on......but you know that already.

So was I wrong to opt out? Am I being a cry baby? Should I have continued trying to fit the mold? What about the actual physical human children that qualify for subsidy but can not come here anymore? I only have one child on it now, an easy pie wonderful 4 year old girl that I am prepared to keep at her state rate anyways. The state paid about 50% of her tuition of $185 per week, so I'll take the hit to keep this awesome child. But no more in the future.
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Sugar Magnolia 04:57 PM 01-27-2014
Oh and this....my email to them explaining why I was opting out (very professionally worded) went completely unanswered.
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Laurel 05:09 PM 01-27-2014
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia:
I'm tired of being a square peg being rammed into a round hole.
Background for members who don't know me....

Small, multi-age center, only 15 students.
My husband is my business partner and co-lead teacher, one other staffer as an assistant.
I have college degree (BA), NOT in ECE, husband has AA, also not in ECE.
We enroll 1 to 5 year olds.
We have a play based curriculum.

This is our fourth year in the program.

They only want to evaluate same-age "classrooms" now. Well, we don't do that.
The director has to have a BA or higher in ECE. That's me, sorry degree in Anthropology, but enough ECE courses to be granted a Directors Credential.
They want 75 percent of lead teachers to have a BA or higher in any field. Well, with only 2 lead teachers, we are either 0%, 50% or 100%, not mathematically possible to have 75% with a staff of 2.
They want written evidence of monthly lead teacher staff meetings. Its called our dinner table, we're married, why write down 12 fake staff meetings?

These evaluators always rave about our program, environment, curriculum, family involvement, etc. We would be 5 stars without all that administrative junk.

We are basically a large family daycare in principal. We are a center for licensing purposes because we don't live in the building. They concede this, but this year they insist on evaluating same-age classrooms. I asked to be evaluated as a family child care, but that was not possible. Rules, ya know.

Why settle for 3 stars, when you AND the powers that be KNOW your environment warrant 5 stars?

Consequences.....we can no longer accept subsidy.
We will not be eligible for certain grants.
We will no longer appear in their advertisements.
My translation....."we're gonna hit you in the pocketbook if ya don't cooperate".

My center is not what they are accustomed to dealing with. Multi age approach, however, is something all you ladies can relate too......include the younger ones in play, improved vocabulary and language acquisition, roles of leadership for the older ones, greater pro-social behavior, etc. Siblings together, home like atmosphere, personal attention, the list goes on and on......but you know that already.

So was I wrong to opt out? Am I being a cry baby? Should I have continued trying to fit the mold? What about the actual physical human children that qualify for subsidy but can not come here anymore? I only have one child on it now, an easy pie wonderful 4 year old girl that I am prepared to keep at her state rate anyways. The state paid about 50% of her tuition of $185 per week, so I'll take the hit to keep this awesome child. But no more in the future.
I am in Broward County and a fellow provider told me that they gave it up here. All I can say is . I would have 'never' agreed to it. I would have definitely opted out. They have been trying to get it going here for years.

I can't speak for centers because I do it in my home but home providers here were co-operative about being 'guinea pigs' here to help them get it going. Their requirements were insane. Finally providers here just rebelled I guess because I hear they gave it up. Officially I'm not sure but I wouldn't have done it anyway.

Only once in 18 years has a potential client even asked me to see my license let alone anything else. I really don't think parents here care if you have 'stars'.

Laurel
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Laurel 05:14 PM 01-27-2014
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia:
Oh and this....my email to them explaining why I was opting out (very professionally worded) went completely unanswered.
Somehow I don't think you'll be the only one opting out.... Good for you!

Laurel
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Sugar Magnolia 05:17 PM 01-27-2014
Originally Posted by Laurel:
I am in Broward County and a fellow provider told me that they gave it up here. All I can say is . I would have 'never' agreed to it. I would have definitely opted out. They have been trying to get it going here for years.

I can't speak for centers because I do it in my home but home providers here were co-operative about being 'guinea pigs' here to help them get it going. Their requirements were insane. Finally providers here just rebelled I guess because I hear they gave it up. Officially I'm not sure but I wouldn't have done it anyway.

Only once in 18 years has a potential client even asked me to see my license let alone anything else. I really don't think parents here care if you have 'stars'.

Laurel

It's not so much the prestige of the 5 stars....it's the inability to accommodate lower income families. I feel like I failed them....and abandoned my pincipals.
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Laurel 05:34 PM 01-27-2014
Oh that's too bad. I tried taking state paid and got approved and after one child decided it was too much of a hassle. Too many hoops to jump through. It was a great mom and baby though.

Plus the state paid centers more than home providers and favored centers in other ways over home providers. So my parent just went to a center as it was even cheaper than me and I can't blame her. I couldn't compete with the center because they got higher state payments than me.

Laurel
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Naptime yet? 08:57 PM 01-27-2014
I second the "good for you"!

Stars looks good on paper. You can turn in all the paperwork, jump through all the hoops, but still be a mediocre daycare in reality.

I tell all my parents to trust their instincts. If you're happy with your provider, if your child(ren) are happy, then who cares how many stars they have (and I agree with Laurel, my license is posted, but my dcps rarely check the parent bulletin board).

I applaud you for being a conscientious provider because that is more important than your star rating!
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mom2many 09:10 PM 01-27-2014
I'm with you too! I've been a family home daycare provider for almost 28 years and feel many of your sentiments! I'm all for quality child care and having providers educated, but there's A LOT to be said for "education" and just plain common sense. It's very frustrating!
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thetoddlerwhisper 04:51 AM 01-28-2014
i wish we'd op out of stars.its so chaotic and some of the guidelines are pretty rediculous
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Annalee 05:02 AM 01-28-2014
Originally Posted by athacker:
i wish we'd op out of stars.its so chaotic and some of the guidelines are pretty rediculous
I agree, I wish we were allowed to opt-out or the report card was set up different where all areas counted and did not rely totally on your assessment score, but until the law changes TN providers (FCC or Center Care) are mandated to complete the stars report card!
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Second Home 05:47 AM 01-28-2014
They are just starting the starts rating here in MD . Not everyone has to join the program , unless you have state kids then you must participate or not get paid by the state.
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Annalee 05:49 AM 01-28-2014
Originally Posted by Second Home:
They are just starting the starts rating here in MD . Not everyone has to join the program , unless you have state kids then you must participate or not get paid by the state.
The state offers a higher reimbursement rate here based on your stars....
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Blackcat31 06:30 AM 01-28-2014
Originally Posted by dapb45:
The state offers a higher reimbursement rate here based on your stars....
Same here.

I am struggling with our stars program too for some of the very reasons Sugar mentioned but unlike Sugar, I am able to work around ALOT of that because I am choosing to remain licensed as a family child care verses a center.

If I licensed as a center then EVERYTHING would change.

Sugar.... your experience is EXACTLY why I was dissing the stars system last year on the board when this subject came up. I could see this (the issues you are having) coming a mile away.

What a shame. This program is suppose to increase the quality of care not run people out of business.
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Cat Herder 06:37 AM 01-28-2014
I am with you.

My letter was not quite as courteous....

Luckily my clients were offended by the level of Govt interference with their child care choice, Uneven funding opportunities, State micro-managing and intrusion into their private information. They fully supported my decision. And by "supported" I mean encouraged it.

Turns out a few letters to the editor of local newspapers by K-12 educators have turned public opinion in my area.
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Heidi 07:37 AM 01-28-2014
I didn't even read all the answers, but yes, yes, yes!

A couple weeks ago, I was sitting with my husband having coffee, and my teens were hanging out for a few minutes chatting. DCK #1 arrived (baby) I sat him on my lap and snuggled. 7am, mind you. DCK #2 came a couple minutes later (2yo), ran to the playroom, got a stuffed animal, then joined us on the couch. We sat there maybe 20 minutes, just chatting, then DH and the kids went on their way.

While I sat there, I thought, to me THIS is family childcare.

It's not washing your hands after touching the dog, it's not having a science center, a dramatic play area, a reading corner, a math area, a manipulative center, a block area, a gross motor space, a space for alone time, art supplies always available, having at least 3 books available at all times for each age group, coats separated by at least 12 inches for sanitation, toothbrushes being in separate containers, counting out enough wipes ahead of time for a diaper change, being in sight AND sound, not allowing children to wait more than 3 minutes for a meal, singing songs on the way to the bathroom, outdoor time, indoor time, handwashing...whew! It's not that some of those things aren't important. But, a there are so many ways to provide art, music, language, and literacy, for instance. Having centers is great, but not necessary.

How can you really measure quality, when it's about the personal relationships you develop with the children and their families? That you get to know the children's personalities, what's important to them, how to respond to them as individuals and still honor who YOU are?

I have one child on state assistance. He's the oldest in the group, and once he moves on, I will also opt out.
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Annalee 08:01 AM 01-28-2014
Originally Posted by Heidi:
I didn't even read all the answers, but yes, yes, yes!

A couple weeks ago, I was sitting with my husband having coffee, and my teens were hanging out for a few minutes chatting. DCK #1 arrived (baby) I sat him on my lap and snuggled. 7am, mind you. DCK #2 came a couple minutes later (2yo), ran to the playroom, got a stuffed animal, then joined us on the couch. We sat there maybe 20 minutes, just chatting, then DH and the kids went on their way.

While I sat there, I thought, to me THIS is family childcare.

It's not washing your hands after touching the dog, it's not having a science center, a dramatic play area, a reading corner, a math area, a manipulative center, a block area, a gross motor space, a space for alone time, art supplies always available, having at least 3 books available at all times for each age group, coats separated by at least 12 inches for sanitation, toothbrushes being in separate containers, counting out enough wipes ahead of time for a diaper change, being in sight AND sound, not allowing children to wait more than 3 minutes for a meal, singing songs on the way to the bathroom, outdoor time, indoor time, handwashing...whew! It's not that some of those things aren't important. But, a there are so many ways to provide art, music, language, and literacy, for instance. Having centers is great, but not necessary.

How can you really measure quality, when it's about the personal relationships you develop with the children and their families? That you get to know the children's personalities, what's important to them, how to respond to them as individuals and still honor who YOU are?

I have one child on state assistance. He's the oldest in the group, and once he moves on, I will also opt out.
You are SOOOOOO RIGHT!

FCCERS-R leaves the relationship out of the equation for Quality Child Care! Sadly, this is becoming a National problem where at first it was limited to a few states like mine.
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sharlan 08:32 AM 01-28-2014
I will quit when (IF) it hits CA. I'm 60, have had a baby on my hip since I was 13. I went to college back in the early 70's but don't have a degree. I don't have the desire or energy to play their games.

I've started taking classes through our local R&R and they are a huge waste of time. I haven't learned anything yet. The class last week was held by a former provider who is now an accountant (EA) and she was super informative.
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Laurel 08:58 AM 01-28-2014
Originally Posted by Heidi:
I didn't even read all the answers, but yes, yes, yes!

A couple weeks ago, I was sitting with my husband having coffee, and my teens were hanging out for a few minutes chatting. DCK #1 arrived (baby) I sat him on my lap and snuggled. 7am, mind you. DCK #2 came a couple minutes later (2yo), ran to the playroom, got a stuffed animal, then joined us on the couch. We sat there maybe 20 minutes, just chatting, then DH and the kids went on their way.

While I sat there, I thought, to me THIS is family childcare.

It's not washing your hands after touching the dog, it's not having a science center, a dramatic play area, a reading corner, a math area, a manipulative center, a block area, a gross motor space, a space for alone time, art supplies always available, having at least 3 books available at all times for each age group, coats separated by at least 12 inches for sanitation, toothbrushes being in separate containers, counting out enough wipes ahead of time for a diaper change, being in sight AND sound, not allowing children to wait more than 3 minutes for a meal, singing songs on the way to the bathroom, outdoor time, indoor time, handwashing...whew! It's not that some of those things aren't important. But, a there are so many ways to provide art, music, language, and literacy, for instance. Having centers is great, but not necessary.

How can you really measure quality, when it's about the personal relationships you develop with the children and their families? That you get to know the children's personalities, what's important to them, how to respond to them as individuals and still honor who YOU are?

I have one child on state assistance. He's the oldest in the group, and once he moves on, I will also opt out.


Exactly!

I think more people should opt out so they will get the message loud and clear that if they don't ease up they'll need to find other options for state paid parents.

Laurel
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Laurel 09:00 AM 01-28-2014
Originally Posted by sharlan:
I will quit when (IF) it hits CA. I'm 60, have had a baby on my hip since I was 13. I went to college back in the early 70's but don't have a degree. I don't have the desire or energy to play their games.

I've started taking classes through our local R&R and they are a huge waste of time. I haven't learned anything yet. The class last week was held by a former provider who is now an accountant (EA) and she was super informative.
That is what I've always said too. If they get it here, I will quit rather than do it. Someone said that is their goal but why? Why does the state care if children are in centers or homes?

Laurel
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Annalee 09:03 AM 01-28-2014
Originally Posted by Laurel:


Exactly!

I think more people should opt out so they will get the message loud and clear that if they don't ease up they'll need to find other options for state paid parents.

Laurel
TN isn't allowed to opt-out due to it being TN state law for all daycares to be assessed annually. You can choose not to participate and have N/P placed on your report card BUT you still have to complete the assessment and have the score from assessment along with the other components' star rating which is still on the report card and on the state website so "what's the point?' of allowing us to choose N/P? I say it is "messed up" here!!!!
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Blackcat31 09:03 AM 01-28-2014
Originally Posted by Laurel:
That is what I've always said too. If they get it here, I will quit rather than do it. Someone said that is their goal but why? Why does the state care if children are in centers or homes?

Laurel
money.

federal and state money can be put into play in centers micro-managed (regulated) by the government.

There is no money to be made off of self-employed family child care providers that aren't micromanaged by the government.
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NoMoreJuice! 09:04 AM 01-28-2014
What states are these programs in? Hopefully at least your states have funding for subsidies for families that need them...Kansas is wiping out all social programs thanks to our recklessly idiotic governor. No medicaid, no subsidies, insane university tuition hikes, and now our state supreme court has to decide whether our public schools are being underfunded to the point that it's unconstitutional (lower courts have already decided this!).

Kansas sucks! But the stars thing sounds like a real pain! Here we just sign a contract with DCF and you're good to go. All you need is a state license.
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Annalee 09:07 AM 01-28-2014
Originally Posted by Laurel:
That is what I've always said too. If they get it here, I will quit rather than do it. Someone said that is their goal but why? Why does the state care if children are in centers or homes?

Laurel
Here, I don't think it matters between homes or centers. We all are assessed. Homes by the FCCERS-R. Centers by the ITTERS (infant/toddler), ECERS (preschool), or SACERS (school-agers). This started in 2002. I am scheduled to be assessed again mid-Feb. Dread it, dread it, dread it, and I generally do well, but it is SOOOOOO messed up. I enjoyed observations for CDA, ACCREDITATION and obtaining my Associates' Degree, but assessment makes me crazy, angry, frustrated, unhappy, sick.....should I go on?????
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Annalee 09:10 AM 01-28-2014
Originally Posted by NoMoreJuice!:
Here we just sign a contract with DCF and you're good to go. All you need is a state license.
This was the good ole' days!
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My3cents 09:53 AM 01-28-2014
Originally Posted by dapb45:
Here, I don't think it matters between homes or centers. We all are assessed. Homes by the FCCERS-R. Centers by the ITTERS (infant/toddler), ECERS (preschool), or SACERS (school-agers). This started in 2002. I am scheduled to be assessed again mid-Feb. Dread it, dread it, dread it, and I generally do well, but it is SOOOOOO messed up. I enjoyed observations for CDA, ACCREDITATION and obtaining my Associates' Degree, but assessment makes me crazy, angry, frustrated, unhappy, sick.....should I go on?????
sounds like your being bullied into doing something you don't want to do. I say that is wrong. If you complete the requirements for a home daycare license that should be good enough. If you want to better your program then make it an option but not a requirement. I don't think it is bettering a program. Home daycare is just that- I could keep going on but it will just put me in a rotten mood. I don't find the anxiety that this puts on daycare providers funny one bit or beneficial. Micro managing at its best- Bottom line $-
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Annalee 10:01 AM 01-28-2014
Originally Posted by My3cents:
sounds like your being bullied into doing something you don't want to do. I say that is wrong. If you complete the requirements for a home daycare license that should be good enough. If you want to better your program then make it an option but not a requirement. I don't think it is bettering a program. Home daycare is just that- I could keep going on but it will just put me in a rotten mood. I don't find the anxiety that this puts on daycare providers funny one bit or beneficial. Micro managing at its best- Bottom line $-
I, with other providers, have expressed these same sentiments to the powers that be many times to NO avail. We are taught early that all children learn differently and to respect these learning differences. There are many, many ways to provide quality care. Allow providers to choose their OWN learning paths with their daycares, their education, etc. DO NOT DICTATE WHAT PROVIDERS CAN/CANNOT DO. I understand there has to be rules/regs, but the state has taken it to another level. I FIRMLY believe after fighting this for sooooo long that there is a deeper reason this is all coming into play. It is deeper than individual status, local status, state status or Federal Status. It is a National trend that terrifies me for my own children and those children entrusted to me daily. Needless to say, I am extremely passionate about the career path I have chosen. I do not want to start a political debate, but........ Just my opinions!
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melilley 10:07 AM 01-28-2014
Originally Posted by My3cents:
sounds like your being bullied into doing something you don't want to do. I say that is wrong. If you complete the requirements for a home daycare license that should be good enough. If you want to better your program then make it an option but not a requirement. I don't think it is bettering a program. Home daycare is just that- I could keep going on but it will just put me in a rotten mood. I don't find the anxiety that this puts on daycare providers funny one bit or beneficial. Micro managing at its best- Bottom line $-
Yep it's the money. They basically told us this right to our faces. Our poor ladies that work at our OYC office are being pressured into getting us home providers to participate so the state will keep their funding, so much that my consultant said that many times they cry at the office because of the pressure.
I have three stars and was going to go for a 4, but after a different thread and knowing what else I have to do to get there, I'm opting to stay at a 3. And you are right, it should be an option.. Here it is, but they said eventually it will be required to participate.
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melilley 10:09 AM 01-28-2014
Originally Posted by Heidi:
I didn't even read all the answers, but yes, yes, yes!

A couple weeks ago, I was sitting with my husband having coffee, and my teens were hanging out for a few minutes chatting. DCK #1 arrived (baby) I sat him on my lap and snuggled. 7am, mind you. DCK #2 came a couple minutes later (2yo), ran to the playroom, got a stuffed animal, then joined us on the couch. We sat there maybe 20 minutes, just chatting, then DH and the kids went on their way.

While I sat there, I thought, to me THIS is family childcare.

It's not washing your hands after touching the dog, it's not having a science center, a dramatic play area, a reading corner, a math area, a manipulative center, a block area, a gross motor space, a space for alone time, art supplies always available, having at least 3 books available at all times for each age group, coats separated by at least 12 inches for sanitation, toothbrushes being in separate containers, counting out enough wipes ahead of time for a diaper change, being in sight AND sound, not allowing children to wait more than 3 minutes for a meal, singing songs on the way to the bathroom, outdoor time, indoor time, handwashing...whew! It's not that some of those things aren't important. But, a there are so many ways to provide art, music, language, and literacy, for instance. Having centers is great, but not necessary.

How can you really measure quality, when it's about the personal relationships you develop with the children and their families? That you get to know the children's personalities, what's important to them, how to respond to them as individuals and still honor who YOU are?

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Josiegirl 10:16 AM 01-28-2014
The STARS program is an option where I live. I chose to do it, quite frankly, for the money. First level, piece of cake. Then went on to the 2nd level, lots of paperwork and a bit more involved. I just received my 3rd STAR and am awaiting the check. I would rather not jump through their hoops to gain this extra monetary reward but it has undoubtedly come in handy. I will not go any further than the 3rd level. I highly doubt I will renew it either. It is a pain.

I didn't mind being assessed; what I don't like though, is having to be so involved with meetings, etc. I am an introvert to the nth degree and that kind of thing stresses me out way more than anything else.

I don't feel I'm any better at what I do than I was before. It certainly hasn't attracted any new clients. It has paid me more through my state-paid clients than I would receive without the STARS.
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Childminder 10:29 AM 01-28-2014
I am nodding my head to just about every comment in this thread. I have 3 stars and will not attempt higher. To achieve 4 I would have to do home visits & 5 get a degree. I see the future and they wil make us do these things to stay licensed or stay open but hopefully I'll be long gone by then(I'm old).

One thing that I resent the most about the Stars program is the amount of hours I had to spend doing all of the busy/paper work to get that damn 3 stars. A "c" at best. I should have spent that time with the children in my care!
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momofsix 10:56 AM 01-28-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
money.

federal and state money can be put into play in centers micro-managed (regulated) by the government.

There is no money to be made off of self-employed family child care providers that aren't micromanaged by the government.
I agree it's about the money, but I also think there's something else at play here. I think the govt really wants its hands in everything because ordinary citizens aren't smart enough to do anything without their "help'. Child care in some form has gone on since the beginning of time without the govt regulating it. Suddenly children are being harmed by not being in the "right" environment from birth-5-even if that environment is home with mom or dad! (which IMHO is the best place for most children)
I'm not really getting the words for what I want to say right now-maybe I'm too hungry for my lunch Anyway-there's something else going on too.
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Annalee 11:04 AM 01-28-2014
Originally Posted by momofsix:
I agree it's about the money, but I also think there's something else at play here. I think the govt really wants its hands in everything because ordinary citizens aren't smart enough to do anything without their "help'. Child care in some form has gone on since the beginning of time without the govt regulating it. Suddenly children are being harmed by not being in the "right" environment from birth-5-even if that environment is home with mom or dad! (which IMHO is the best place for most children)
I'm not really getting the words for what I want to say right now-maybe I'm too hungry for my lunch Anyway-there's something else going on too.
YEP!!!!!
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melilley 11:07 AM 01-28-2014
Originally Posted by momofsix:
I agree it's about the money, but I also think there's something else at play here. Suddenly children are being harmed by not being in the "right" environment from birth-5-even if that environment is home with mom or dad! (which IMHO is the best place for most children)
I'm not really getting the words for what I want to say right now-maybe I'm too hungry for my lunch Anyway-there's something else going on too.
My sister's 3 kids never went to daycare or preschool, they were home with either mom or dad. My nephew is in HS and is in honors classes, and my niece is also in honors classes in Jr. HIgh.

My own dd went to daycare, only because I was basically a single mom and worked there so she went with me, but then there wasn't any of this stuff that they had to do and my dd is also smart as a whip-she always was in a reading group a grade above.
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Play Care 11:17 AM 01-28-2014
Originally Posted by momofsix:
I agree it's about the money, but I also think there's something else at play here. I think the govt really wants its hands in everything because ordinary citizens aren't smart enough to do anything without their "help'. Child care in some form has gone on since the beginning of time without the govt regulating it. Suddenly children are being harmed by not being in the "right" environment from birth-5-even if that environment is home with mom or dad! (which IMHO is the best place for most children)
I'm not really getting the words for what I want to say right now-maybe I'm too hungry for my lunch Anyway-there's something else going on too.
I think some of it has to do with the US rankings in education. We are waaaaay behind most countries and the gov't is looking at ways to be closer to the top. Many of the countries ahead of the US offer things like state funded child care, universal preschools (I'm thinking of Sweden, Findland, etc.) I wonder if the US gov't think they can get kids into "institutions" as soon as possible that might help them be tops. Which is why the environments have to be just so - so that every second is a learning opportunity and teachable moment

I think what our government fails to understand is that many of those countries also have strong family friendly policies such as long PAID mat/family leaves, 4 weeks of PAID vacations standard, excellent health care, world class education, etc. I think it's the whole package that makes these countries tops, not just the bits and pieces are lawmakers think they can get past the taxpayers
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craftymissbeth 11:18 AM 01-28-2014
Originally Posted by NoMoreJuice!:
What states are these programs in? Hopefully at least your states have funding for subsidies for families that need them...Kansas is wiping out all social programs thanks to our recklessly idiotic governor. No medicaid, no subsidies, insane university tuition hikes, and now our state supreme court has to decide whether our public schools are being underfunded to the point that it's unconstitutional (lower courts have already decided this!).

Kansas sucks! But the stars thing sounds like a real pain! Here we just sign a contract with DCF and you're good to go. All you need is a state license.
What?! Is there any way you can link an article or something regarding this issue in Kansas? I'm having trouble searching for this info.
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craftymissbeth 11:22 AM 01-28-2014
Originally Posted by NoMoreJuice!:
What states are these programs in? Hopefully at least your states have funding for subsidies for families that need them...Kansas is wiping out all social programs thanks to our recklessly idiotic governor. No medicaid, no subsidies, insane university tuition hikes, and now our state supreme court has to decide whether our public schools are being underfunded to the point that it's unconstitutional (lower courts have already decided this!).

Kansas sucks! But the stars thing sounds like a real pain! Here we just sign a contract with DCF and you're good to go. All you need is a state license.
Oh, and there are some counties in Kansas already participating in this Stars thing.

http://www.ks.childcareaware.org/provider_kqris.html

It has creeped into my county on a trial basis, but I'm absolutely positive no one in my town (and probably in this county) care. The thing is, if they make it mandatory to participate in order to accept state assistance most providers here will have to do it. This is a very low income community and I'm one of the only providers not taking state pay... everyone else seems to rely heavily on it.
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Annalee 11:26 AM 01-28-2014
Originally Posted by Play Care:
I think some of it has to do with the US rankings in education. We are waaaaay behind most countries and the gov't is looking at ways to be closer to the top. Many of the countries ahead of the US offer things like state funded child care, universal preschools (I'm thinking of Sweden, Findland, etc.) I wonder if the US gov't think they can get kids into "institutions" as soon as possible that might help them be tops. Which is why the environments have to be just so - so that every second is a learning opportunity and teachable moment

I think what our government fails to understand is that many of those countries also have strong family friendly policies such as long PAID mat/family leaves, 4 weeks of PAID vacations standard, excellent health care, world class education, etc. I think it's the whole package that makes these countries tops, not just the bits and pieces are lawmakers think they can get past the taxpayers
I agree with you. I believe universal pre-k is coming soon. We already have them here for income eligible first, but if spaces do not fill up then any child may enroll. Also, daycares now have a new early learning standard based on the core standards for 4 yr olds. That is not set in place without something behind it, This started last year. I took the training and was livid after learning what was taking place. Core standards in education is down to 4 yr olds now. The "let's find out" I get from Scholastic is even aligned with core standards. I feel the core standards will keep dwindling down where we do become like other countries where someone dictates what children know from birth. Not sure it will happen in my child care lifetime but I do see it in the future. I got to get off my soapbox and move on because I allow issues like these to affect my attitude negatively.
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Annalee 11:29 AM 01-28-2014
Originally Posted by craftymissbeth:
Oh, The thing is, if they make it mandatory to participate in order to accept state assistance most providers here will have to do it. This is a very low income community and I'm one of the only providers not taking state pay... everyone else seems to rely heavily on it.
I do not have a state-subsidy paid child in care, and reap NO benefits from the highest star rating.....BUT the state still mandates an annual assessment with other report card components.
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craftymissbeth 11:36 AM 01-28-2014
Last fall I was going to participate in my first grant. The woman told me it was super easy and that there were only a few small requirements. She finally went over the specifics and I had to have two FCCER-S assessments and agree to take state pay for two years. After I got to looking at the FCCER-S requirements ( after I searched and searched online because she wouldn't give me any info on it) I realized that it was a huge PITA and I'd basically have to change 90% of my program. I dropped that grant like a hot potato!

I have a good feeling the stars program is pretty close to the PITA-ness of that grant.
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Blackcat31 11:37 AM 01-28-2014
Originally Posted by dapb45:
I agree with you. I believe universal pre-k is coming soon. We already have them here for income eligible first, but if spaces do not fill up then any child may enroll. Also, daycares now have a new early learning standard based on the core standards for 4 yr olds. That is not set in place without something behind it, This started last year. I took the training and was livid after learning what was taking place. Core standards in education is down to 4 yr olds now. The "let's find out" I get from Scholastic is even aligned with core standards. I feel the core standards will keep dwindling down where we do become like other countries where someone dictates what children know from birth. Not sure it will happen in my child care lifetime but I do see it in the future. I got to get off my soapbox and move on because I allow issues like these to affect my attitude negatively.
Universal Preschool is coming.... we've already heard a ton about it...which I do NOT understand because there is NO PROOF that early education has any benefit to these kids.

The money spent on micro-managing family child cares would be much better spent improving the educational practices we have now for regular aged school children.

WHY drag even more kids into the mess we already have?

It makes zero sense to me.

The very foundation of raising a child is to create a secure attachment between caregiver and child. How in the world are we suppose to do that when we are suppose to be teaching the kids ABC's & 123's straight from the womb??????

"I'm sorry baby Billy...I know you have emotional needs but until we memorize this periodic table of elements so you score high on the state standards test, I just can't stop and play with you or even hug you....ain't nobody got time for that."
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Annalee 11:40 AM 01-28-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Universal Preschool is coming.... we've already heard a ton about it...which I do NOT understand because there is NO PROOF that early education has any benefit to these kids.

The money spent on micro-managing family child cares would be much better spent improving the educational practices we have now for regular aged school children.

WHY drag even more kids into the mess we already have?

It makes zero sense to me.

The very foundation of raising a child is to create a secure attachment between caregiver and child. How in the world are we suppose to do that when we are suppose to be teaching the kids ABC's & 123's straight from the womb??????

"I'm sorry baby Billy...I know you have emotional needs but until we memorize this periodic table of elements so you score high on the state standards test, I just can't stop and play with you or even hug you....ain't nobody got time for that."
We are headed toward a generation that develops IT-tech robots with no social skills!
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Heidi 11:43 AM 01-28-2014
Originally Posted by dapb45:
I agree with you. I believe universal pre-k is coming soon. We already have them here for income eligible first, but if spaces do not fill up then any child may enroll. Also, daycares now have a new early learning standard based on the core standards for 4 yr olds. That is not set in place without something behind it, This started last year. I took the training and was livid after learning what was taking place. Core standards in education is down to 4 yr olds now. The "let's find out" I get from Scholastic is even aligned with core standards. I feel the core standards will keep dwindling down where we do become like other countries where someone dictates what children know from birth. Not sure it will happen in my child care lifetime but I do see it in the future. I got to get off my soapbox and move on because I allow issues like these to affect my attitude negatively.
But, if you look at Finland, for example, the EARLY years (Birth-3) core standards are things like social skills, modeling table manners (yes, table manners!), caregiving routines, fresh air, etc. They are not in any way academic.

Kindergarten in most of Europe is what we call preschool in the US. 3-6 year olds. Usually, a part-day program that often follows a Montessori, Waldorf, or similar curriculum, and a large part of the day is still play-based. Teacher led activities are songs, story telling, gardening, handiwork, dance or movement, and class chores. Only in 1st grade are academics really started. Their approach is much more setting the stage early by making sure children are READY to learn, THEN hit the books.
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Blackcat31 11:46 AM 01-28-2014
Originally Posted by Heidi:
Their approach is much more setting the stage early by making sure children are READY to learn, THEN hit the books.
THIS!!!!! This ^^^^ is what we, as parent, as providers, as teachers, as a country should be aiming for!

A lot of good it does to have a bicycle if we don't know how to ride it.
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Heidi 11:51 AM 01-28-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Universal Preschool is coming.... we've already heard a ton about it...which I do NOT understand because there is NO PROOF that early education has any benefit to these kids.

The money spent on micro-managing family child cares would be much better spent improving the educational practices we have now for regular aged school children. That, and give the money to enforce the regulations we already have vs. adding more. Reinventing the wheel yet again!

WHY drag even more kids into the mess we already have?

It makes zero sense to me.

The very foundation of raising a child is to create a secure attachment between caregiver and child. How in the world are we suppose to do that when we are suppose to be teaching the kids ABC's & 123's straight from the womb??????

"I'm sorry baby Billy...I know you have emotional needs but until we memorize this periodic table of elements so you score high on the state standards test, I just can't stop and play with you or even hug you....ain't nobody got time for that."
You crack me up, BC!

Pretty much everyone here knows I'm a freakin' liberal, but I'm with the right on this one. Universal anything is NOT going to solve the problem. I'd much prefer they do as you suggest above, and also put money back in to food stamps and nutrition programs. That includes school nutrition programs, for that matter.

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Play Care 11:56 AM 01-28-2014
Originally Posted by Heidi:
But, if you look at Finland, for example, the EARLY years (Birth-3) core standards are things like social skills, modeling table manners (yes, table manners!), caregiving routines, fresh air, etc. They are not in any way academic.

Kindergarten in most of Europe is what we call preschool in the US. 3-6 year olds. Usually, a part-day program that often follows a Montessori, Waldorf, or similar curriculum, and a large part of the day is still play-based. Teacher led activities are songs, story telling, gardening, handiwork, dance or movement, and class chores. Only in 1st grade are academics really started. Their approach is much more setting the stage early by making sure children are READY to learn, THEN hit the books.
I know, it kills me!
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Annalee 12:02 PM 01-28-2014
Originally Posted by Play Care:
I know, it kills me!
I wonder if in the past they were in the path we are headed and have seen the error of their ways. I sure wish the path would change over here before it is too late.
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Blackcat31 12:10 PM 01-28-2014
Originally Posted by dapb45:
I wonder if in the past they were in the path we are headed and have seen the error of their ways. I sure wish the path would change over here before it is too late.
Sadly, I think it is already too late. I am usually the eternal optimist but seriously we have an entire generation of parents that willing allows others to basically raise their child as long as it works for them and their "jobs" are easier.

I think that as a country, our educational (and heck even our financial systems AND welfare systems) needs to collapse before it gets better.

There is NO way out of the hole we have dug....atleast not one I see.

It's all about what looks good and is no longer about what IS actually good....kwim?

I can name a 100 things (not just child care related but life-related) that look fantastic on paper but NOT one of them actually works in practice.

Until we, as a country admits defeat and or failure....NOTHING will change.

I'll use Head Start as an example.......100% COMPLETE and TOTAL failure by their own measures and yet we still dump money into the program and increase classrooms and teachers like we have a checkbook with no limit.

Why?
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Jack Sprat 12:12 PM 01-28-2014
Originally Posted by craftymissbeth:
Oh, and there are some counties in Kansas already participating in this Stars thing.

http://www.ks.childcareaware.org/provider_kqris.html

It has creeped into my county on a trial basis, but I'm absolutely positive no one in my town (and probably in this county) care. The thing is, if they make it mandatory to participate in order to accept state assistance most providers here will have to do it. This is a very low income community and I'm one of the only providers not taking state pay... everyone else seems to rely heavily on it.
I was looking into doing this, honestly because of the money. But, the more I hear about it the less I want too. Our county doesn't offer it to the providers yet. I do accept state assistance but have no families right now receiving assistance.
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mema 12:22 PM 01-28-2014
Kudos to you for opting out. I will not participate in ours either. If it ever becomes mandatory, I guess I am out.
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TwinKristi 12:33 PM 01-28-2014
Originally Posted by Heidi:
But, if you look at Finland, for example, the EARLY years (Birth-3) core standards are things like social skills, modeling table manners (yes, table manners!), caregiving routines, fresh air, etc. They are not in any way academic.

Kindergarten in most of Europe is what we call preschool in the US. 3-6 year olds. Usually, a part-day program that often follows a Montessori, Waldorf, or similar curriculum, and a large part of the day is still play-based. Teacher led activities are songs, story telling, gardening, handiwork, dance or movement, and class chores. Only in 1st grade are academics really started. Their approach is much more setting the stage early by making sure children are READY to learn, THEN hit the books.
This is how our local Waldorf Charter School runs things. 2 yrs of a kindergarten class setting, lots of life skills type learning not an actual curriculum. Start reading in 3rd grade. I have a few friends on FB who's kids go there and it's odd to see a video of a 5yr old reading to their 3yr old sister (older siblings go to school with my kids) and then an 8yr old just learning to read to mom in the same day! Unfortunately the only downside I see to their program is the social aspect of it. The kids are all socially odd. I know at least 5-6 families who's children go there and I'm not even joking when I say you can pick them out in a crowd. It makes me worry for their older life as teens and young adults.

Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I'll use Head Start as an example.......100% COMPLETE and TOTAL failure by their own measures and yet we still dump money into the program and increase classrooms and teachers like we have a checkbook with no limit.

Why?
I'm asking this not in a snarky way at all but genuine curiosity? Why has the HS program been a failure? My twins went to HS and I was involved in their parent committee and such. It seemed like it was succeeding then? That was 12-13yrs ago.
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Blackcat31 12:44 PM 01-28-2014
Originally Posted by TwinKristi:

I'm asking this not in a snarky way at all but genuine curiosity? Why has the HS program been a failure? My twins went to HS and I was involved in their parent committee and such. It seemed like it was succeeding then? That was 12-13yrs ago.
Headstart is a $150 billion dollar FAIL.

http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/opre...cutive-summary

Head Start conducted it's own study into the effectiveness of their educational services for early childhood kids.

The study states pretty clearly that there are NO lasting affects on a child's educational or academic success because of Head Start....so why would we continue to pour money in to something that has NO benefit to anyone?
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Heidi 12:57 PM 01-28-2014
Originally Posted by TwinKristi:
This is how our local Waldorf Charter School runs things. 2 yrs of a kindergarten class setting, lots of life skills type learning not an actual curriculum. Start reading in 3rd grade. I have a few friends on FB who's kids go there and it's odd to see a video of a 5yr old reading to their 3yr old sister (older siblings go to school with my kids) and then an 8yr old just learning to read to mom in the same day! Unfortunately the only downside I see to their program is the social aspect of it. The kids are all socially odd. I know at least 5-6 families who's children go there and I'm not even joking when I say you can pick them out in a crowd. It makes me worry for their older life as teens and young adults.
I have no real opinion about Waldorf education, other than that it seems great for Kindergarten. Beyond that, I've gotten the same vibe. It's kind of a religion, almost. Not BAD, just different.

The day I spent in the Waldorf kindy near us was very cool, and very interesting. They are based in a very artsy community; very organic, hippie types in the middle of farm-county. THe kids all had the coolest names: Zephyr, Helen, Zane, Hudson, Jude...
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Heidi 01:00 PM 01-28-2014
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia:
I'm tired of being a square peg being rammed into a round hole.Background for members who don't know me....

Small, multi-age center, only 15 students.
My husband is my business partner and co-lead teacher, one other staffer as an assistant.
I have college degree (BA), NOT in ECE, husband has AA, also not in ECE.
We enroll 1 to 5 year olds.
We have a play based curriculum.

This is our fourth year in the program.

They only want to evaluate same-age "classrooms" now. Well, we don't do that.
The director has to have a BA or higher in ECE. That's me, sorry degree in Anthropology, but enough ECE courses to be granted a Directors Credential.
They want 75 percent of lead teachers to have a BA or higher in any field. Well, with only 2 lead teachers, we are either 0%, 50% or 100%, not mathematically possible to have 75% with a staff of 2.
They want written evidence of monthly lead teacher staff meetings. Its called our dinner table, we're married, why write down 12 fake staff meetings?

These evaluators always rave about our program, environment, curriculum, family involvement, etc. We would be 5 stars without all that administrative junk.

We are basically a large family daycare in principal. We are a center for licensing purposes because we don't live in the building. They concede this, but this year they insist on evaluating same-age classrooms. I asked to be evaluated as a family child care, but that was not possible. Rules, ya know.

Why settle for 3 stars, when you AND the powers that be KNOW your environment warrant 5 stars?

Consequences.....we can no longer accept subsidy.
We will not be eligible for certain grants.
We will no longer appear in their advertisements.
My translation....."we're gonna hit you in the pocketbook if ya don't cooperate".

My center is not what they are accustomed to dealing with. Multi age approach, however, is something all you ladies can relate too......include the younger ones in play, improved vocabulary and language acquisition, roles of leadership for the older ones, greater pro-social behavior, etc. Siblings together, home like atmosphere, personal attention, the list goes on and on......but you know that already.

So was I wrong to opt out? Am I being a cry baby? Should I have continued trying to fit the mold? What about the actual physical human children that qualify for subsidy but can not come here anymore? I only have one child on it now, an easy pie wonderful 4 year old girl that I am prepared to keep at her state rate anyways. The state paid about 50% of her tuition of $185 per week, so I'll take the hit to keep this awesome child. But no more in the future.
BINGO! Winner, winner, Chicken dinner!
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TwinKristi 02:07 PM 01-28-2014
Originally Posted by Heidi:
I have no real opinion about Waldorf education, other than that it seems great for Kindergarten. Beyond that, I've gotten the same vibe. It's kind of a religion, almost. Not BAD, just different.

The day I spent in the Waldorf kindy near us was very cool, and very interesting. They are based in a very artsy community; very organic, hippie types in the middle of farm-county. THe kids all had the coolest names: Zephyr, Helen, Zane, Hudson, Jude...
Yes they do have very neat names! Let me think of the ones I know... Sage, Nolan, Kade, Finn, Roan...

Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Headstart is a $150 billion dollar FAIL.

http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/opre...cutive-summary

Head Start conducted it's own study into the effectiveness of their educational services for early childhood kids.

The study states pretty clearly that there are NO lasting affects on a child's educational or academic success because of Head Start....so why would we continue to pour money in to something that has NO benefit to anyone?
I don't know that I agree with this really. I can understand from a daycare provider comparison, the idea that HeadStart is "better" than daycare I don't agree. BUT when you compare under-priveledged, poverty-stricken children and their upper-middle class counterparts of course you're going to have very little long term positive outcomes just based soley on their lifestyle outside of Head Start. For me it was a God-send! There was no way, as a single mom to twins, I could afford private preschool. I literally had to quit my job because I couldn't afford childcare. I was referred to Head Start, enrolled and was able to get a subsidy and transporation for after care which carried into funding for a home daycare and I found a PT job that turned into a FT job with benefits, vacation, etc. and really made a huge impact on my life.
I will say that comparing even two HS centers in two neighboring cities will give you a HUGE variance in outcome. Just being white and non-hispanic my children statistically have a better outcome in school, period. The first HS we went to was fabulous!! The parent participation was much bigger than the second HS my boys attended. The site was older, the teachers were older, one looked as if she lived in her truck! I kid you not! I still see some of the teachers from their first school and they remember us and we chit-chat! I stronly believe parents who are involved in their children's education, even in preschool, will have a better outcome than the children of non-participant parents. I was on the Head Start Site Counsel and was paid my gas and time to go there once a month. I was our classroom parent, even though I worked FT. My kids participated in sports as well. It's kinda like saying our food stamp program is a complete failure so why pour money into a failing program when the participants are usually overweight and unhealthy. You're not looking at the bigger picture of WHY these people are even participating. They're living in poverty.
I took a class at our local R&R about nutrition and how 85% of children in childcare are obese. WHAT?? It just doesn't make sense to me that these numbers even match. Of the 16 kids I've cared for in my childcare since mid-2012, 2 are probably classified as obese based on their weight but really are just big for their age. A 2.5yr old who wears a 4T and a 4yr old who wears a 5-6. They're tall and broad, not just fat!
Anyway, I can understand why this program can be viewed as a failure, but I feel it's really not taking into consideration their enviornment at home which I feel plays a bigger part than anything. My boys were definitely ready for Kindy and did very well in elementary school because it's based on what you know. Once they get to Jr High & High school they have lagged dramatically because it's also about what you do. How organized you are, how well you can manage your time, etc. They score in advanced in their STAR testing but are LAZY teenage boys that barely bring in a 2.0! It's discouraging as a parent but I don't think it has to do with Head Start! LOL My 3 middle boys all attended private preschool and didn't know any more or less than my older 2 boys who went to HS. I feel it's more about giving these children a chance to be ready for school instead of handing Kindergarten teachers a handful of kids who can't count, write their name or say their ABC's because mom & dad didn't teach them and the neighbor lady next door only watched him for $10/day and fed him cheap food and plugged him in front of the TV all day.
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Annalee 02:14 PM 01-28-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Sadly, I think it is already too late. I am usually the eternal optimist but seriously we have an entire generation of parents that willing allows others to basically raise their child as long as it works for them and their "jobs" are easier.

I think that as a country, our educational (and heck even our financial systems AND welfare systems) needs to collapse before it gets better.

There is NO way out of the hole we have dug....atleast not one I see.

It's all about what looks good and is no longer about what IS actually good....kwim?

I can name a 100 things (not just child care related but life-related) that look fantastic on paper but NOT one of them actually works in practice.

Until we, as a country admits defeat and or failure....NOTHING will change.

I'll use Head Start as an example.......100% COMPLETE and TOTAL failure by their own measures and yet we still dump money into the program and increase classrooms and teachers like we have a checkbook with no limit.

Why?
Well said! I, too, try to be optimistic and embraced the star system in the beginning with the reasoning it is here, so let's make it work by doing the best we can. BUT all that has changed now and providers and I realize that. Like I stated earlier, my feelings take over because of the passion I have for my job, but I have to move on because negativity breeds negativity and I refuse to let the powers that be take away from my own children nor the children in my daily care. Got a wonderful daycare support group meeting tonight with some great friends personally and professionally. Very timely!
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grandmom 02:49 PM 01-28-2014
Originally Posted by Second Home:
They are just starting the starts rating here in MD . Not everyone has to join the program , unless you have state kids then you must participate or not get paid by the state.
It was optional in WA for the first year. Now they are trying to pass a bill to make it mandatory for all state-funded kids. Crazy.
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Blackcat31 02:50 PM 01-28-2014
Originally Posted by TwinKristi:
I don't know that I agree with this really. I can understand from a daycare provider comparison, the idea that HeadStart is "better" than daycare I don't agree. BUT when you compare under-priveledged, poverty-stricken children and their upper-middle class counterparts of course you're going to have very little long term positive outcomes just based soley on their lifestyle outside of Head Start. For me it was a God-send! There was no way, as a single mom to twins, I could afford private preschool. I literally had to quit my job because I couldn't afford childcare. I was referred to Head Start, enrolled and was able to get a subsidy and transporation for after care which carried into funding for a home daycare and I found a PT job that turned into a FT job with benefits, vacation, etc. and really made a huge impact on my life.
I will say that comparing even two HS centers in two neighboring cities will give you a HUGE variance in outcome. Just being white and non-hispanic my children statistically have a better outcome in school, period. The first HS we went to was fabulous!! The parent participation was much bigger than the second HS my boys attended. The site was older, the teachers were older, one looked as if she lived in her truck! I kid you not! I still see some of the teachers from their first school and they remember us and we chit-chat! I stronly believe parents who are involved in their children's education, even in preschool, will have a better outcome than the children of non-participant parents. I was on the Head Start Site Counsel and was paid my gas and time to go there once a month. I was our classroom parent, even though I worked FT. My kids participated in sports as well. It's kinda like saying our food stamp program is a complete failure so why pour money into a failing program when the participants are usually overweight and unhealthy. You're not looking at the bigger picture of WHY these people are even participating. They're living in poverty.
I took a class at our local R&R about nutrition and how 85% of children in childcare are obese. WHAT?? It just doesn't make sense to me that these numbers even match. Of the 16 kids I've cared for in my childcare since mid-2012, 2 are probably classified as obese based on their weight but really are just big for their age. A 2.5yr old who wears a 4T and a 4yr old who wears a 5-6. They're tall and broad, not just fat!
Anyway, I can understand why this program can be viewed as a failure, but I feel it's really not taking into consideration their enviornment at home which I feel plays a bigger part than anything. My boys were definitely ready for Kindy and did very well in elementary school because it's based on what you know. Once they get to Jr High & High school they have lagged dramatically because it's also about what you do. How organized you are, how well you can manage your time, etc. They score in advanced in their STAR testing but are LAZY teenage boys that barely bring in a 2.0! It's discouraging as a parent but I don't think it has to do with Head Start! LOL My 3 middle boys all attended private preschool and didn't know any more or less than my older 2 boys who went to HS. I feel it's more about giving these children a chance to be ready for school instead of handing Kindergarten teachers a handful of kids who can't count, write their name or say their ABC's because mom & dad didn't teach them and the neighbor lady next door only watched him for $10/day and fed him cheap food and plugged him in front of the TV all day.

Just because the program is good for the underprivileged (some not all), doesn't mean it's a success or worth the $150 million dollars we dole out each year for it.

If more money was spent helping parents support and raise their own children verses having to work long hours and spend a ton of time away from their children, then I would be supportive of it but as it stands now I am not.

fwiw~ I AM looking at the big picture....
My oldest child went to HS
I used to be employed by HS for many years before opening my own child care
I collaborate with them now as part of my child care program.


I DO think the food stamp program IS a giant waste of money AS IS...I think it needs a HUGE overhaul too.

I also know that I am not far off in my thinking because as I posted, HS was the entity that conducted the study in the first place and gave themselves a big fat "F" so.....

You may be one success story but that doesn't mean it is worth millions of dollars a year just to benefit 1% of those enrolled.
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Heidi 04:03 PM 01-28-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Just because the program is good for the underprivileged (some not all), doesn't mean it's a success or worth the $150 million dollars we dole out each year for it.

If more money was spent helping parents support and raise their own children verses having to work long hours and spend a ton of time away from their children, then I would be supportive of it but as it stands now I am not.

fwiw~ I AM looking at the big picture....
My oldest child went to HS
I used to be employed by HS for many years before opening my own child care
I collaborate with them now as part of my child care program.


I DO think the food stamp program IS a giant waste of money AS IS...I think it needs a HUGE overhaul too.

I also know that I am not far off in my thinking because as I posted, HS was the entity that conducted the study in the first place and gave themselves a big fat "F" so.....

You may be one success story but that doesn't mean it is worth millions of dollars a year just to benefit 1% of those enrolled.
We were just talking about this. We are now cutting people's food stamp allotments, which is NOT the answer. It's the way the program is administered that's the problem. There is no nutrition education involved, and no direction. "Here's a few bucks, go buy yourself something to eat".

How about:
-Limits on "junk"...processed foods and goodies.
-A financial incentive to participate in nutrition classes, community gardens, and farmers co-ops or farmer's markets. An emphasis on fresh vegetables (or frozen), whole grains, lean meats. Most people on food stamps can't afford those things, may not even know how to prepare them, and often don't know they can GO to a farmers market with their card. I know I didn't years ago.

The truth is, though, that more than likely there's some big corporate lobbyist who's job it is to make sure that people are stuck buying chicken nuggets, frozen pizzas, and pop tarts with their $35 a week.
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MissAnn 04:14 PM 01-28-2014
Originally Posted by dapb45:
I agree, I wish we were allowed to opt-out or the report card was set up different where all areas counted and did not rely totally on your assessment score, but until the law changes TN providers (FCC or Center Care) are mandated to complete the stars report card!
You can do nonparticipating in tn. Still have to have the assessment but the web page will say N/P.
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Sunchimes 05:44 PM 01-28-2014
In Texas, I am what is called a listed home. I can only have 3 children, I am never inspected (unless there is a complaint), can not accept subsidy kids, and can not participate in the food program. I'm fine with that-I meant to be registered but my vintage house wouldn't pass the inspection process. What strikes me as odd is that if I were a bureaucrat, I would want me on the food program so that they would have a reason to come in and make sure things aren't horrible. From what I'm hearing, listed providers are going to be phased out in the near future. If that happens, I'll quit. I'm just 1 1/2 years from drawing social security, so I'll be ok.

I'll be very, very sad though. I will miss my kids more than you can imagine.

Here's my question about the centers and stars. Most of my kids are special needs kids. They don't fit into anyone's programs. Where are they going to find providers who will take the time to feed a 2 year old by hand, mix up special things for the baby who has eating problems, do special exercises every 2 hours? What center or large home will find the time to spend as much as 5 hours a week with therapists, learning what these kids need? I'm not tooting my own horn, but my therapists tell me that I am the only person in our town who will do this. They have a waiting list of kids that they want me to take. It seems to me that there is always going to be a need for people like me-a small place with the time to devote to these kids. I shudder to think of my kids in a center. One was telling me today about a child she wants to put here. She said that every time she goes to see him, he is sitting in a corner-just sitting. If someone puts a toy in front of him, he plays with it until someone comes along and moves it. No one is doing anything to pull him out of himself. If a parent is ok with the fact that I'm not inspected, why should the government tell them they can't choose me? None of my kids will ever be affected by common core, so why take something away from them that will affect them (my daycare) and replace it with something harmful?

Ok, I jumped on my soapbox there. Sorry, but I really worry about these kids being overlooked. They don't need people with degrees in ECE. They need people with degrees in Speech therapy, PT, and OT, and they need people like me to follow the instructions of the therapists, and most of all, the need my time and attention. That's it.
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Annalee 06:47 PM 01-28-2014
Originally Posted by MissAnn:
You can do nonparticipating in tn. Still have to have the assessment but the web page will say N/P.
yes, but your stars are still listed if you click on the N/P so why put the N/P on there if public can still view your scores??? So all you are doing is electing not to participate which only affects the subsidy pay. I feel we should be allowed to n/p by opting out....what good is n/p if you still have to complete the process.
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Annalee 07:25 PM 01-28-2014
Originally Posted by Sunchimes:
In Texas, I am what is called a listed home. I can only have 3 children, I am never inspected (unless there is a complaint), can not accept subsidy kids, and can not participate in the food program. I'm fine with that-I meant to be registered but my vintage house wouldn't pass the inspection process. What strikes me as odd is that if I were a bureaucrat, I would want me on the food program so that they would have a reason to come in and make sure things aren't horrible. From what I'm hearing, listed providers are going to be phased out in the near future. If that happens, I'll quit. I'm just 1 1/2 years from drawing social security, so I'll be ok.

I'll be very, very sad though. I will miss my kids more than you can imagine.

Here's my question about the centers and stars. Most of my kids are special needs kids. They don't fit into anyone's programs. Where are they going to find providers who will take the time to feed a 2 year old by hand, mix up special things for the baby who has eating problems, do special exercises every 2 hours? What center or large home will find the time to spend as much as 5 hours a week with therapists, learning what these kids need? I'm not tooting my own horn, but my therapists tell me that I am the only person in our town who will do this. They have a waiting list of kids that they want me to take. It seems to me that there is always going to be a need for people like me-a small place with the time to devote to these kids. I shudder to think of my kids in a center. One was telling me today about a child she wants to put here. She said that every time she goes to see him, he is sitting in a corner-just sitting. If someone puts a toy in front of him, he plays with it until someone comes along and moves it. No one is doing anything to pull him out of himself. If a parent is ok with the fact that I'm not inspected, why should the government tell them they can't choose me? None of my kids will ever be affected by common core, so why take something away from them that will affect them (my daycare) and replace it with something harmful?

Ok, I jumped on my soapbox there. Sorry, but I really worry about these kids being overlooked. They don't need people with degrees in ECE. They need people with degrees in Speech therapy, PT, and OT, and they need people like me to follow the instructions of the therapists, and most of all, the need my time and attention. That's it.
Special needs children here are allowed to enter programs governed by the Dept of Education. Early intervention programs are available through licensing as well. Licensing here comes through Dept of Human Services. Both programs are for moderate to severe special needs. My nephew went there till he was 15. He is now 18 but much like a 4 yr old...and will graduate this yr so he has entered the high school with an aide to lead him throughout the day. Yes, special needs do need extra therapists and in our assessment there are items listed for that. Providers are to explain the disability to the assessor which could be as simple as autism or as severe as those you mentioned. I, personally, accept special needs as long as I do not need to hire an extra employee. You are to be commended for what you do, but just wanted to share how there are programs set in place but sometimes are from different departments. When my special needs nephew has been at his lowest...can't walk or eat, those therapists come to him often times through the week in the home....If I cannot offer appropriate care for a child, I have information to share and we work together to find placement for the child.
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KIDZRMYBIZ 03:14 PM 01-29-2014
Nebraska hasn't jumped on board yet with with what has been called QRIS (Quality Rating and Improvement Scale, I think) here, although it's been in the works for over a decade. I've learned more than I want to know about it, and if ever goes into effect, I don't think any mixed-age home providers can *honestly* fulfill the expectations. Some are just not practicle at best (allowing children to have full access to music any time they wish) to downright dangerous (allowing children access to art materials and sensory tables any time they wish). If, and when, it ever happens, it will most likely be a turning point for me.

Now, I am probably going to catch a lot of he!! for saying this, but I do not need to be called a "professional childcare provider" if this rating system is what it entails. I will proudly wear the badge of "babysitter" if I can just keep things the way they are right now.
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Heidi 03:51 PM 01-29-2014
Originally Posted by KIDZRMYBIZ:
Nebraska hasn't jumped on board yet with with what has been called QRIS (Quality Rating and Improvement Scale, I think) here, although it's been in the works for over a decade. I've learned more than I want to know about it, and if ever goes into effect, I don't think any mixed-age home providers can *honestly* fulfill the expectations. Some are just not practicle at best (allowing children to have full access to music any time they wish) to downright dangerous (allowing children access to art materials and sensory tables any time they wish). If, and when, it ever happens, it will most likely be a turning point for me.

Now, I am probably going to catch a lot of he!! for saying this, but I do not need to be called a "professional childcare provider" if this rating system is what it entails. I will proudly wear the badge of "babysitter" if I can just keep things the way they are right now.


I agree. For years, I've fought for "childcare provider" and resented babysitter.

Our stars program is all about using words like "classroom" and "teacher". Even with my ECE degree almost completed, and the ability to DO what teachers do, I don't want a classroom, the duties, or the label. I am a child CARE provider, and proud to be one. A 5 month old or a 2 year old doesn't need a TEACHER. They need to be cared for.
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Annalee 04:12 PM 01-29-2014
Originally Posted by Heidi:
[/b]

I agree. For years, I've fought for "childcare provider" and resented babysitter.

Our stars program is all about using words like "classroom" and "teacher". Even with my ECE degree almost completed, and the ability to DO what teachers do, I don't want a classroom, the duties, or the label. I am a child CARE provider, and proud to be one. A 5 month old or a 2 year old doesn't need a TEACHER. They need to be cared for.
I think in the beginning here, providers simply wanted to be respected for providing QUALITY child care. The importance of our job has been belittled many times throughout the years and we thought we could change that....BUT it didn't happen. You are right, the state/QRIS/National agendas had other things in mind. I knew a few years ago when the state began paying for our ECE education and some completed CDA, AS/BS degrees, Accreditation that there was a hidden motive. Hindsight is 20/20. All providers can do here now is accept, go underground or quit.
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e.j. 05:50 PM 01-29-2014
Originally Posted by Heidi:
I don't want a classroom, the duties, or the label. I am a child CARE provider, and proud to be one. A 5 month old or a 2 year old doesn't need a TEACHER. They need to be cared for.
Couldn't agree more!!
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Laurel 02:46 AM 01-30-2014
I lost track of this thread and am just getting back to it. I am getting the feeling that we don't like STARS

Just a few comments on various things that have been said.

I get that the people who implement these programs want them to continue because if they don't they will lose their jobs BUT what I don't get is how it benefits a state financially. If there was no QRIS (STARS) program then that money could be used elsewhere. My comment early on meant "How does the state benefit from having the STARS program at all?" because if they collect money for it then logically it would be used for the program. Unless they can skim money off of it for other things?? Is that what some of you mean who say the state is in it for the money? I am just trying to understand not be snarky or anything. I don't get how they are making 'extra money' off of it....if they are.

Another comment about food stamps that those on food stamps should be educated on nutrition, etc. and only allowed to buy certain things... Basically we should severely limit how they use them. I don't agree. Just because people receive food stamps doesn't mean they aren't knowlegable in what they should and shouldn't eat. I do agree that they shouldn't be allowed to buy cleaning products and non food items but other than that no restrictions. It just seems a little too 'big brother' to me. Either give me food stamps or not but don't tell me what I can and cannot eat.

Laurel
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Unregistered 04:37 AM 01-30-2014
I am actually a registered user who can't seem to get my password and email straight! That said, I have always gotten great advice here! I am so happy to see this thread and the comments! I have almost the same situation in my tiny little "center" as Sugar, but actually am a group home listing like Black Cat. I have a degree in ECE and am completely frustrated by the stars requirements. I am in PA. Participating in the stars program will not in any way benefit my program. In fact, as many have said, it will drive me out of business and I am just getting started!! I only have a few little ones at the moment. NONE of their parents inquired about stars at all. It wasn't even part of the conversation. My licensor from the office of child welfare spends more time trying to talk me into the stars program than worrying about whether my little operation is providing quality care and education. It scares me the direction we are going
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Blackcat31 07:41 AM 01-30-2014
Interesting.....

The research shows that QRIS programs are expensive and difficult to administer, that state funding to sustain QRIS in the future may not be available, that QRIS programs do not raise learning or social development outcomes for students, and that QRIS will tend to eliminate the jobs of people working in small, family group care providers.

http://www.washingtonpolicy.org/publ...pment-children
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Annalee 07:53 AM 01-30-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Interesting.....

The research shows that QRIS programs are expensive and difficult to administer, that state funding to sustain QRIS in the future may not be available, that QRIS programs do not raise learning or social development outcomes for students, and that QRIS will tend to eliminate the jobs of people working in small, family group care providers.

http://www.washingtonpolicy.org/publ...pment-children
Ohhhh BC, I sure wish the funding would disappear and the QRIS along with it.
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Blackcat31 07:53 AM 01-30-2014
This is another interesting "review" of the QRIS program

She actually makes a lot of really good and valid points...something to think about for sure

http://www.mothers2others.com/blog/?p=1
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Heidi 07:57 AM 01-30-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Interesting.....

The research shows that QRIS programs are expensive and difficult to administer, that state funding to sustain QRIS in the future may not be available, that QRIS programs do not raise learning or social development outcomes for students, and that QRIS will tend to eliminate the jobs of people working in small, family group care providers.

http://www.washingtonpolicy.org/publ...pment-children
Thank you for finding this! I am sharing it with my union reps. They have been fighting this all along.


OK, I just read this and it is sooo SPOT ON!

Isn't this what every one of us have been saying for the past 3 years????!
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Blackcat31 08:03 AM 01-30-2014
QRIS programs rate the quality of a facility based on the presence of various inputs. None of the measures assess whether or to what extent a child care facility is improving learning outcomes for children, or whether children are better prepared to enter kindergarten.

A recent report from the Washington Department of Early Learning about QRIS systems acknowledges this fact:

“However, currently, there is still no empirical research that specifically
links effectiveness of QRIS programs throughout the nation to child
outcomes and whether children are better prepared for school as a result of
QRIS models.”


An extensive evaluation of Colorado’s QRIS program, one of the longest running in the country, found no correlation between a child care facility’s star
rating and improvement in children’s cognitive and social development
.

http://www.washingtonpolicy.org/site...%20QRIS_PN.pdf

Pennsylvania’s QRIS program cost $62.7 million!!!! Just to find out that:

1. QRIS programs measure inputs, not actual outcomes for children
2. QRIS programs are expensive and complicated to administer
3. QRIS participation rates are low
4. QRIS ratings are limited in scope and often not shared with the public, so
they cannot guide decision making by parents and families
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Heidi 08:45 AM 01-30-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
QRIS programs rate the quality of a facility based on the presence of various inputs. None of the measures assess whether or to what extent a child care facility is improving learning outcomes for children, or whether children are better prepared to enter kindergarten.

A recent report from the Washington Department of Early Learning about QRIS systems acknowledges this fact:

“However, currently, there is still no empirical research that specifically
links effectiveness of QRIS programs throughout the nation to child
outcomes and whether children are better prepared for school as a result of
QRIS models.”


An extensive evaluation of Colorado’s QRIS program, one of the longest running in the country, found no correlation between a child care facility’s star
rating and improvement in children’s cognitive and social development
.

http://www.washingtonpolicy.org/site...%20QRIS_PN.pdf

Pennsylvania’s QRIS program cost $62.7 million!!!! Just to find out that:

1. QRIS programs measure inputs, not actual outcomes for children
2. QRIS programs are expensive and complicated to administer
3. QRIS participation rates are low
4. QRIS ratings are limited in scope and often not shared with the public, so
they cannot guide decision making by parents and families
BC-did you happen to see the date on that memo? FEBRUARY 2012. In the meantime, more money continues to be dumped into this, while the food stamps that actually FEED these children are being cut.
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Blackcat31 08:50 AM 01-30-2014
Originally Posted by Heidi:
BC-did you happen to see the date on that memo? FEBRUARY 2012. In the meantime, more money continues to be dumped into this, while the food stamps that actually FEED these children are being cut.
I know!

They've know for some time now that this is NOT the answer but I guess that doesn't matter.
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Annalee 09:18 AM 01-30-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I know!

They've know for some time now that this is NOT the answer but I guess that doesn't matter.
I guess that is the part that means it is here because SOMEONE has a national agenda and that STINKS! I think this SOMEONE obviously has lots of power!
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My3cents 10:51 AM 01-30-2014
Originally Posted by dapb45:
I, with other providers, have expressed these same sentiments to the powers that be many times to NO avail. We are taught early that all children learn differently and to respect these learning differences. There are many, many ways to provide quality care. Allow providers to choose their OWN learning paths with their daycares, their education, etc. DO NOT DICTATE WHAT PROVIDERS CAN/CANNOT DO. I understand there has to be rules/regs, but the state has taken it to another level. I FIRMLY believe after fighting this for sooooo long that there is a deeper reason this is all coming into play. It is deeper than individual status, local status, state status or Federal Status. It is a National trend that terrifies me for my own children and those children entrusted to me daily. Needless to say, I am extremely passionate about the career path I have chosen. I do not want to start a political debate, but........ Just my opinions!

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My3cents 11:11 AM 01-30-2014
Originally Posted by Heidi:
You crack me up, BC!

Pretty much everyone here knows I'm a freakin' liberal, but I'm with the right on this one. Universal anything is NOT going to solve the problem. I'd much prefer they do as you suggest above, and also put money back in to food stamps and nutrition programs. That includes school nutrition programs, for that matter.
OH No Way- Need job creation for people to work to be able to afford food and get off these programs!!! Working class grocery cart compared to the food stamp grocery cart- bull. Reinvent the wheel and hand out food instead of just giving it out in the form of $ Let the general public that takes on food help get basic/healthy food that makes them want to get off the A$$ and be able to buy the food that I/we can't buy with a two income household. Make it so that nutrition is front and center on this one- All the big name brand companies won't hear of this because they are being left out to their marketed consumer- How bad is that??? Michelle Obama fight this fight instead of the.....My Plate...... because it needs to start there.


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My3cents 11:36 AM 01-30-2014
Originally Posted by TwinKristi:
Yes they do have very neat names! Let me think of the ones I know... Sage, Nolan, Kade, Finn, Roan...



I don't know that I agree with this really. I can understand from a daycare provider comparison, the idea that HeadStart is "better" than daycare I don't agree. BUT when you compare under-priveledged, poverty-stricken children and their upper-middle class counterparts of course you're going to have very little long term positive outcomes just based soley on their lifestyle outside of Head Start. For me it was a God-send! There was no way, as a single mom to twins, I could afford private preschool. I literally had to quit my job because I couldn't afford childcare. I was referred to Head Start, enrolled and was able to get a subsidy and transporation for after care which carried into funding for a home daycare and I found a PT job that turned into a FT job with benefits, vacation, etc. and really made a huge impact on my life.
I will say that comparing even two HS centers in two neighboring cities will give you a HUGE variance in outcome. Just being white and non-hispanic my children statistically have a better outcome in school, period.I don't get this statement at all- what does being hispanic have to do with anything if your living in the USA as an American Citizen? The first HS we went to was fabulous!! The parent participation was much bigger than the second HS my boys attended. The site was older, the teachers were older, one looked as if she lived in her truck! I kid you not! I still see some of the teachers from their first school and they remember us and we chit-chat! I stronly believe parents who are involved in their children's education, even in preschool, will have a better outcome than the children of non-participant parents. I was on the Head Start Site Counsel and was paid my gas and time to go there once a month. I was our classroom parent, even though I worked FT. My kids participated in sports as well. It's kinda like saying our food stamp program is a complete failure so why pour money into a failing program when the participants are usually overweight and unhealthy. You're not looking at the bigger picture of WHY these people are even participating. They're living in poverty. I don't agree with this either- poverty looks pretty good to the working poor-
I took a class at our local R&R about nutrition and how 85% of children in childcare are obese. WHAT?? It just doesn't make sense to me that these numbers even match. Of the 16 kids I've cared for in my childcare since mid-2012, 2 are probably classified as obese based on their weight but really are just big for their age. A 2.5yr old who wears a 4T and a 4yr old who wears a 5-6. They're tall and broad, not just fat!
Anyway, I can understand why this program can be viewed as a failure, but I feel it's really not taking into consideration their enviornment at home which I feel plays a bigger part than anything. My boys were definitely ready for Kindy and did very well in elementary school because it's based on what you know. Once they get to Jr High & High school they have lagged dramatically because it's also about what you do. How organized you are, how well you can manage your time, etc. They score in advanced in their STAR testing but are LAZY teenage boys that barely bring in a 2.0! It's discouraging as a parent but I don't think it has to do with Head Start! LOL My 3 middle boys all attended private preschool and didn't know any more or less than my older 2 boys who went to HS. I feel it's more about giving these children a chance to be ready for school instead of handing Kindergarten teachers a handful of kids who can't count, write their name or say their ABC's That is what Kindergarten teachers are for to teach the kids that stuff, they would rather a child come in not knowing those things but know how self help skills, socialization, and be potty trained and be able to sit and listen for small teachable moments. Those things are taught best in small settings at home or daycare.because mom & dad didn't teach them and the neighbor lady next door only watched him for $10/day and fed him cheap food and plugged him in front of the TV all day.
I responded to a few things above that stood out to me- I can see how HS helped you but for many it doesn't work the way it was intended. I know many parents that stuck the kids in HS and then went home and napped because they were "looking" for a job in their slumber. I would like to see welfare and help programs managed as a helping hand up and not a way of life.
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My3cents 11:38 AM 01-30-2014
Originally Posted by dapb45:
Well said! I, too, try to be optimistic and embraced the star system in the beginning with the reasoning it is here, so let's make it work by doing the best we can. BUT all that has changed now and providers and I realize that. Like I stated earlier, my feelings take over because of the passion I have for my job, but I have to move on because negativity breeds negativity and I refuse to let the powers that be take away from my own children nor the children in my daily care. Got a wonderful daycare support group meeting tonight with some great friends personally and professionally. Very timely!

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Annalee 11:40 AM 01-30-2014
Originally Posted by My3cents:
I responded to a few things above that stood out to me- I can see how HS helped you but for many it doesn't work the way it was intended. I know many parents that stuck the kids in HS and then went home and napped because they were "looking" for a job in their slumber. I would like to see welfare and help programs managed as a helping hand up and not a way of life.
I agree! HS locally have had to call the police regularly just to get children picked up....
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My3cents 11:41 AM 01-30-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Just because the program is good for the underprivileged (some not all), doesn't mean it's a success or worth the $150 million dollars we dole out each year for it.

If more money was spent helping parents support and raise their own children verses having to work long hours and spend a ton of time away from their children, then I would be supportive of it but as it stands now I am not.

fwiw~ I AM looking at the big picture....
My oldest child went to HS
I used to be employed by HS for many years before opening my own child care
I collaborate with them now as part of my child care program.


I DO think the food stamp program IS a giant waste of money AS IS...I think it needs a HUGE overhaul too.

I also know that I am not far off in my thinking because as I posted, HS was the entity that conducted the study in the first place and gave themselves a big fat "F" so.....

You may be one success story but that doesn't mean it is worth millions of dollars a year just to benefit 1% of those enrolled.


I like your naked honesty here seeing how HS has been a big part of your life-
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My3cents 11:47 AM 01-30-2014
Originally Posted by Heidi:
We were just talking about this. We are now cutting people's food stamp allotments, which is NOT the answer. It's the way the program is administered that's the problem. There is no nutrition education involved, and no direction. "Here's a few bucks, go buy yourself something to eat".

How about:
-Limits on "junk"...processed foods and goodies.
-A financial incentive to participate in nutrition classes, community gardens, and farmers co-ops or farmer's markets. An emphasis on fresh vegetables (or frozen), whole grains, lean meats. Most people on food stamps can't afford those things, may not even know how to prepare them, and often don't know they can GO to a farmers market with their card. I know I didn't years ago.

The truth is, though, that more than likely there's some big corporate lobbyist who's job it is to make sure that people are stuck buying chicken nuggets, frozen pizzas, and pop tarts with their $35 a week.
no doubt- targeted marketing every time you shop, you leave a paper trail- its called a receipt. Make nutritious choices more affordable. I would love to buy all organic, sometimes I just can't afford to do that. I believe if your getting help that you shouldn't be spending that help on junk food. A treat has become a meal=obesity. Drive the price up on the junk food and bring it down on the nutritional food. The homeless shelters eat the best-

This subject really heats me for many reasons.
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mom2many 12:07 PM 01-30-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
QRIS programs rate the quality of a facility based on the presence of various inputs. None of the measures assess whether or to what extent a child care facility is improving learning outcomes for children, or whether children are better prepared to enter kindergarten.

A recent report from the Washington Department of Early Learning about QRIS systems acknowledges this fact:

“However, currently, there is still no empirical research that specifically
links effectiveness of QRIS programs throughout the nation to child
outcomes and whether children are better prepared for school as a result of
QRIS models.”


An extensive evaluation of Colorado’s QRIS program, one of the longest running in the country, found no correlation between a child care facility’s star
rating and improvement in children’s cognitive and social development
.

http://www.washingtonpolicy.org/site...%20QRIS_PN.pdf

Pennsylvania’s QRIS program cost $62.7 million!!!! Just to find out that:

1. QRIS programs measure inputs, not actual outcomes for children
2. QRIS programs are expensive and complicated to administer
3. QRIS participation rates are low
4. QRIS ratings are limited in scope and often not shared with the public, so
they cannot guide decision making by parents and families
BC Thanks for the information and articles you posted in this thread. I just read through them and it's very alarming indeed. I have been aware of how this program can and will impact my business, but it was very insightful to read these, as well as hearing how other providers have the same concerns.

It does appear an agenda is being pushed through regardless of whether it will benefit anyone and it's all very disheartening indeed.
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Leanna 12:10 PM 01-30-2014
I hate that tool life the FCCERS (or ECERS and ITERS in centers) has become so abused and misused that it can now be looked at as checklist that if you only have and do these certain, very specific things you are a good program. NOT!

Also, i think many of the criteria have become grossly distorted. I recently found online a group of videos produced by San Diego county called ECERS All-Stars. They were aimed at "training" child care center workers to get score higher on the ECCERS. I literally simultaneously laughed out loud and shook my head when they said that the hand-washing sinks had to be disinfected between uses for different purposes (meaning that if the children use the sink to wash hands after going potty and then to wash hands after playing outside the sink has to be disinfected between those two uses). W....T....H??????
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Tags:at risk children, inner city youth, kqris, low income, parental life choices, parental responsibility, qris, stars, stars program, universal preschool
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