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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Parent Not At Work..
Mister Sir Husband 08:24 PM 05-04-2013
I am still in the process of becoming registered as a day care provider and have been reading posts on this site for weeks now. I noticed a few different providers venting that the parents are either not at work, or left early and didn't pick up their kid right away. I'm sorry... maybe its because I'm new to this, but so what? My contract is going to list my hours of operation. If a parent drops off in the morning and picks up by closing time, how is it any of my business if they went to work, home to nap, the store, a casino, etc.. I'm being paid to watch the kid for up to 11 hours per day. As long as the parents pick up and drop off within this time frame, and the check doesn't bounce.. I'm good.
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Oneluckymom 08:33 PM 05-04-2013
My understanding is that as daycare providers we know that parents need and deserve time to themselves. What frustrates us are the parents that have the children in daycare for 8 or more hours EVERYDAY and still don't want to spend time with their child on days off or on weekends. Yes there are parents that also have weekend care.

It's not the occasional day off to themselves it's the ones that habitually don't cherish time with their child.
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youretooloud 08:42 PM 05-04-2013
I usually don't care either. As long as it's within my work hours, I don't care where they are. (I need to be able to get a hold of them though)

Occasionally though, there are circumstances than make me wonder "WHY?"

One day we had a really, really bad storm. My house was in very bad shape. I clearly had a lot of major work to do just to make it safe. I had no power for a few days, (and it was 114 degrees out) All the parents were in the same boat as I was.... but, they took a week off to get their house fixed, brought the kids to me.
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bluemoose_mom 09:10 PM 05-04-2013
I had a mom that was out of work for 2.5 weeks. Found a job right away, had to wait to start training.

Her daughter come to my house, every day, for 10 hours.

It's not fair to the child, period. We see this type of behavior, we see how it affects the kids attachments and behavior to not have parents cherish the extra time.

This child was also brought to my house during a blizzard, while BOTH parents were home.

And as someone else said (not sure who) it's when a child is always here, no matter what, is what burns me out the fastest.
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Mister Sir Husband 09:17 PM 05-04-2013
Wow... 114 huh. That's about 40 degrees warmer than I personally prefer to have to deal with. Granted I don't always get my wish, but 65 and partly cloudy is just fine with me. Far be it for me to be new on this site and be giving advice, but I'd have closed for a day or two anyways to at least fix the air conditioning..
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Starburst 09:29 PM 05-04-2013
Some times could depend on the kid too. Some kids are harder to deal with for longer periods of times, especially after 10 or 11 hours at daycare. Also many people on here are also parent's (I'm not but most are), that's the reason most of them get into home daycare. So its usually because they feel sorry for the kid because since they went into daycare to be with their kids they don't know why the parents would leave their kids in daycare longer than needed after 8-12 hours, usually kids start to get cranky and want mommy or daddy after about 6 or 8 hours (if they don't already miss them). I don't have my FCC yet (in school), but I have worked at one (she's been in business 30+ years) and the kids had lots of fun at daycare but they were always at their happiest at pick up time when they finally get to go home with mommy and daddy, and they were usually very happy when they showed up early (unless it is during a fun non-everyday activity).

Also because if you study child development, they teach you that no matter how fantastic your daycare is and how happy the children are there, it's no substitute for home and family (maybe a close second family; but not a substitute for the original). And yes it's a business. But if your in the business for the right reasons you want what is best for the kids in your care, and in most cases (not always but usually) that is that they have as much time with their family as possible. Not just leave daycare, eat dinner, and go to bed (which some parents do, especially if they pick up late). And yes parent's do need time some time to themselves or focus on their marriage/job/finances but they still need to spend quality (and sometimes just quantity) time with their kids.
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Lyss 10:05 PM 05-04-2013
Originally Posted by Oneluckymom:
My understanding is that as daycare providers we know that parents need and deserve time to themselves. What frustrates us are the parents that have the children in daycare for 8 or more hours EVERYDAY and still don't want to spend time with their child on days off or on weekends. Yes there are parents that also have weekend care.

It's not the occasional day off to themselves it's the ones that habitually don't cherish time with their child.
This is my feeling as well. I've had DCKs on occasional days when one parent or the other isn't working. They are home sick, taking a girls/boys day, putting together an event, or just running errands. Last week I had a DCK for the day (later drop off) because DCPs were going to lunch, doing some shopping, and going to a movie because it was their anniversary. Things like this don't bother me. Heck I enjoy my occasional breaks from DD too, I understand parents need time for themselves.

The ones that irk me are the habitual ones, the ones that don't work or call in repeatedly but the DCK is in care from open to close. Its not about what the parent is doing, its about the effect on the DCK that we see and deal with that bothers us. Like that poor DCG that sat crying for dad in the next yard over on the recent thread. Yes people are upset with the DCD but because of the effect its having on the DCK. We care deeply for these children and want to seem them happy and thriving. They love us too but we aren't their parents.

I had a DCM that called in literally at least once every week, frequently she would call in 3 days a week (she got 2 doctors to sign FMLA paper work for DCB's "illness," so she uses it at work to call in without consequences) but DCB is here every day 11hrs even though she isn't at work because she's telling them she needs to be home dealing with him , on weekends he stays with the neighbors or grandparents. Plus her work has a child care reimbursement program so she always told me "well I don't care if he comes or not, work basically pays for him to be here so its not like I'm loosing money" when DCB would be absent but fees were still due.

I don't even know if it's the fact that they are off that bothers me, maybe that's just the last straw because these parents (in my experience anyway) are usually ones I have other issues with, like repeated late pick ups, payment issues, never having enough supplies...
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pandamom 10:30 PM 05-04-2013
ITA with what the other posters said. I'm all for taking some time to yourself every once in a while. Heck, I do it too- my husband and I will take leave every few months for a day and go to lunch or go on a short outing while our twins are in childcare. But for the most part if me or DH aren't working, the boys are at home with us.

I have some parents that seem to spend as little time as possible with their children. It shows in the behavior of the children. I remember last month the Air Force and Army gave their personnel a day off for FAMILY DAY...to spend with their families. I still had 10 out of 14 kids in my class that day. Parents dropped their kids off at 9 am (to allow them to sleep in) and wearing civilian clothes- so we knew they weren't working.

My toddlers (2 year olds) know when their parents aren't working and they do act up when they are dropped off in class. I don't blame the toddlers- I'd be mad too if I knew I could be at home spending time with my mom and dad.

In my experience, parents that keep their kid in daycare from open to close when there is no reason to are also the ones that send their kids in sick, take forever to pick up when we call them when their child NEEDS to be home because they're sick, habitually late for pickup and never sends in appropriate supplies (extra clothes, diapers, wipes, etc).
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blandino 12:18 AM 05-05-2013
Even though my parents are paying a standard rate, it does bother me when their child is in care and they are off work. Once in a while I get it, but when it happens repeatedly it can definitely wear on your nerves. For me it is the principle that the parent is asking me to do more work, so that they can have time to themselves. Sometimes, it would be nice if I had kids leave early so that I could get off early. It just feels very entitled and selfish to ask someone else to do extra unnecessary work (even if they are paying for it). I like personal time just as much as they do.

Also, it bothers me when a child is in my care 50 hours a week and the parents don't spend time with them when they have the chance. It's not my job to judge their parenting, but I just wish some parents knew how much time they are missing out on.

I hate being condescending and saying "once you've been doing this for a while you will understand"....but in this case I think it applies. I felt like you at first, but now I totally understand the frustration in the part of providers.
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countrymom 04:37 AM 05-05-2013
Originally Posted by Mister Sir Husband:
Wow... 114 huh. That's about 40 degrees warmer than I personally prefer to have to deal with. Granted I don't always get my wish, but 65 and partly cloudy is just fine with me. Far be it for me to be new on this site and be giving advice, but I'd have closed for a day or two anyways to at least fix the air conditioning..
you can't close for that, you will see some parents are going to give you grief because whos going to watch their kid all day. Also by having the child every day for long periods of time isn't the best for us either. Easy burn out. And I don't understand this "parents need time to themselves" really what do they do that is so hard that they need time to themselves, that I couldn't do with kids here. Its a two way street, but some parents just dont care.
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Moppetland 05:58 AM 05-05-2013
We are child care providers who care for children while the parents work, train or go to school. I understand those days where parents are ill themselves, or just happen to have a day off from work, but still bring their child in. But when it is habitual and they're on vacation while the child is in care, then our title switches to babysitter. Parents think that since they're paying for care, they might as well bring them. But they pay on a week to week basis, so when they just come in on a week they aren't working, then that theory that they're paying anyway, goes out the window.

But the bottom line is, they should want to spend time with their children when they have the time.
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DaisyMamma 06:04 AM 05-05-2013
The worst I've seen is a parent is home/off work and it's child's birthday and child is here for the entire 9 hours (I only do 9 hr days).

The next is that parent leaves work early to go home and make a cake for child's party at school that night and child is here.....in my mind that is something that the child should be doing WITH the parent. That is a huge bonding thing. The child was a 7.5 year old girl and would have LOVED that special time with mom.... So sad. and I only live a 2 minutes drive from their home. How great would it have been if parent had come here and surprised girl by getting her off the bus and taken her home to do that???? That's what I would have done, but apparently that's just me
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Blackcat31 06:29 AM 05-05-2013
Originally Posted by Mister Sir Husband:
I am still in the process of becoming registered as a day care provider and have been reading posts on this site for weeks now. I noticed a few different providers venting that the parents are either not at work, or left early and didn't pick up their kid right away. I'm sorry... maybe its because I'm new to this, but so what? My contract is going to list my hours of operation. If a parent drops off in the morning and picks up by closing time, how is it any of my business if they went to work, home to nap, the store, a casino, etc.. I'm being paid to watch the kid for up to 11 hours per day. As long as the parents pick up and drop off within this time frame, and the check doesn't bounce.. I'm good.
How each provider runs his/her business is completely up to them and there is no one right or wrong way, only what is right for you.

I personally do not care what a parent is or isn't doing while I have their child in care provided they adhere to the schedule they submitted to me as to when their child is dropped off at care and picked up from care.

It is obviously a benefit for children to get as much face time as possible with their parent but we can't make parents do that so YOU choose what works best for your business and do things in a manner that works best for you.

I used to have open and close hours. I used to have ALL enrolled children from open to close without fail.

I now run on contracted hours and don't have standard open/close hours. I now open when the first child is scheduled to arrive and close when the last child is scheduled to be picked up.

I work less hours now for more money so I KNOW that for me, contracted hours are more beneficial verses standard open/close hours.

Now I can't guarantee that just because a parent picked up their child earlier in the day that they are actually spending quality time with them but I can guarantee that any connection to the amount of face time a child has with their parent is not dependent on me.

I can't change what kind of parent a person is but I can control what type of provider I choose to be but I can control my business, the hours I work and the amount of time I am willing to care for another person's child.
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Laurel 06:32 AM 05-05-2013
Originally Posted by youretooloud:
I usually don't care either. As long as it's within my work hours, I don't care where they are. (I need to be able to get a hold of them though)

Occasionally though, there are circumstances than make me wonder "WHY?"

One day we had a really, really bad storm. My house was in very bad shape. I clearly had a lot of major work to do just to make it safe. I had no power for a few days, (and it was 114 degrees out) All the parents were in the same boat as I was.... but, they took a week off to get their house fixed, brought the kids to me.
I personally don't care what they are doing generally but we are in hurricane country. One time it looked like it was really coming our way so all the parents brought their children so they could prepare their house. How was I supposed to do mine? Luckily my daughter was off work and went to get water and necessities (cause they sell out fast) and my sons boarded up the windows. I just got lucky that they happened to be available. Of course, the hurricane never came that time.

Now I put it in my contract that I will take a day off for hurricane prep. Our licensing rules say we are not allowed to operate without air conditioning. Well they don't say air conditioning but over a certain temperature in the house. Then after one they come out to inspect the house. If there is any damage, we can't open again until it is fixed.

I don't believe every little thing has to be in my contract either. I could just as easily say "I'll have to close tomorrow to do storm preparations." If they don't like it....oh well...

Laurel
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Willow 10:49 AM 05-05-2013
The things parents do and do not do directly impact their children.

When you have parents who do not want to spend time with their children there are ALWAYS negative repercussions to that....quite commonly the result is behavioral problems.

I am not in the business of enabling parents to neglect their children.

I am not in the business of loving and caring about someone else's child more than they do.

I have no desire to see or support that dysfunction and resulting pain.


I agree with BC, everyone needs to do what they feel comfortable with. I personally see this as an ethics issue and it is a hard line for me.
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bunnyslippers 12:16 PM 05-05-2013
I have an issue with it. I know that it is really up to the parents to decide how to parent their children, and that they are paying me for a service. I understand everyone needs some time to themselves every once in a while, and completely support that.

When parents take time off frequently and leave their children here with me for the entire contracted day, I get angry. I have lost a great deal of respect for some of my dcfs for this reason. Right now, for example, I can see my neighbor's outside working in the yard, without their daughter. She has been sent off with her grandparents for the day. This is the same family that the father dropped her off last week and proceeded to work in the yard all day, while she cried in the backyard b/c he wouldn't look over at her.

For me, it is just a lousy way to parent, and I find it offensive. If I were staying open next year, I would absolutely add a clause to my contract that states I only care for children when the parents are WORKING. It bothers me THAT much.
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youretooloud 12:38 PM 05-05-2013
Originally Posted by Mister Sir Husband:
Wow... 114 huh. That's about 40 degrees warmer than I personally prefer to have to deal with. Granted I don't always get my wish, but 65 and partly cloudy is just fine with me. Far be it for me to be new on this site and be giving advice, but I'd have closed for a day or two anyways to at least fix the air conditioning..
At that time, if I closed, I didn't get paid. But, if I stayed open, and the parents didn't bring them, I DID get paid. So, I stayed open.

Also, I had no phones to call anybody to tell them I had no electricity and phones.

So, you'd think the parents would come in, see that I had no electricity for several days, and keep the kids at home. But, nope.
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Mom&Provider 01:05 PM 05-05-2013
Some providers care and others don't, I'm one that cares.

I don't mind a day here or there, but the parents that drop off at open and don't pick-up till close often enough and without good reason, that's when I care. I totally get that sometimes parents don't feel well or need to go to the Dr's themselves, but what I don't get is why parents can't spend a sunny day off outdoors or playing with their own child who is here at least 8 hours per day M-F when they simply took a day off to clean the house or get nails done!? When you think about when YOU have time to do this, it becomes even further upsetting.

You'll come to realize that some parents often take advantage of the fact that you are there and when they come in picking up right at close announcing what an amazing day at the spa and lunch with a friend was you might be fine with it UNTIL you become ill or need a day off to do something with your own child or for yourself and they pull a fit...then you'll know why some of us care. Not all parents are like this, but some are and it is very wearing when it becomes a regular thing. I also have parents (same ones who take the days off), who finish work early enough to pick-up around 4 pm, but go home, take a nap or start dinner and then come here. This is especially bothersome when their child isn't feeling the best because of a cold or I could have used the extra time to prepare our own dinner etc.

As a mother who also had her own child in a home daycare before starting one myself, I can certainly say that when I got off work early, I picked up early, when I took a day off, my child was with me (unless I had an appointment which he could not attend), when my company closed down for certain days off, my child was with me! I became a mother for a reason, I didn't have kids to let someone else raise them M-F even when I was available to do it myself!!

ETA: Since you're just starting out, think about some days (or 1/2 days) that you might want to have for yourself/family (Christmas Eve is a good one!) and put them into your contract in advance. This way, you get the time you need/want and no one can argue with you since it's already in writing - less stress to you! I didn't do this and found I became very upset at specific families who took these days to do things and I couldn't get my own things done...like on Christmas Eve which is why I used that as an example!
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Cradle2crayons 02:10 PM 05-05-2013
The mom of my sibling group does this often. I don't think the kids know one way or the other. Sometimes I know, other times I've heard, and still more times she admits it to me. Honestly though it doesn't bother me. I do an over it every other week just for the parents to have date night and have a beer. They won't drink or allow alcohol in their home or around their daughter. They schedule ahead of time and pay me as a drop in overnight. Doesn't bother me at all. She fits in well who my family despite her age and it changes bath time from 3 to 4 and that's fine too.

I don't really think its my business whether they are at work or at the casino. I'm contracted for x time regardless. I'm not saying I agree with those parenting practices but still I keep it business not personal related to that. I don't do things differently whether they are at work or at the salon.

That's just me though. My policies give me lots of family holidays as well as vacation and I'm paid for those even though they aren't here.
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LaLa1923 02:44 PM 05-05-2013
Originally Posted by Mister Sir Husband:
I am still in the process of becoming registered as a day care provider and have been reading posts on this site for weeks now. I noticed a few different providers venting that the parents are either not at work, or left early and didn't pick up their kid right away. I'm sorry... maybe its because I'm new to this, but so what? My contract is going to list my hours of operation. If a parent drops off in the morning and picks up by closing time, how is it any of my business if they went to work, home to nap, the store, a casino, etc.. I'm being paid to watch the kid for up to 11 hours per day. As long as the parents pick up and drop off within this time frame, and the check doesn't bounce.. I'm good.

11 hours a day??!! You might want to rethink that and go for contracted hours instead.


It's just sad when parents don't spend time with their kids. Some people would rather send their kids to daycare than care for them themselves.... good luck!!!
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bunnyslippers 03:33 PM 05-05-2013
I think Mom & Providers point hits it right on the head. I used to be ok with it...then, my baby was in the hospital due to a stomach virus that was horrible. My neighbors, who know my family on a personal level, sent their child here the whole time we were in the hospital (5 days). The 6th day...when I returned home...they sent their child here, and both of them stayed home because they "needed a day off." I had not slept in 5 days, and they knew it. It was so insensitive. Since that day, I have had very little patience with parents who don't work and stay home without their children.

I also had a very scary medical situation last year that almost caused me to lose my vision. During that time, I couldn't get enough time with my two boys. I cherish every last moment with my babies, and I don't have respect for other parents who don't. Please don't trash me for that...I understand the other viewpoint. I just know from personal experience that every moment is a gift.
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Cradle2crayons 03:45 PM 05-05-2013
Originally Posted by bunnyslippers:
I think Mom & Providers point hits it right on the head. I used to be ok with it...then, my baby was in the hospital due to a stomach virus that was horrible. My neighbors, who know my family on a personal level, sent their child here the whole time we were in the hospital (5 days). The 6th day...when I returned home...they sent their child here, and both of them stayed home because they "needed a day off." I had not slept in 5 days, and they knew it. It was so insensitive. Since that day, I have had very little patience with parents who don't work and stay home without their children.

I also had a very scary medical situation last year that almost caused me to lose my vision. During that time, I couldn't get enough time with my two boys. I cherish every last moment with my babies, and I don't have respect for other parents who don't. Please don't trash me for that...I understand the other viewpoint. I just know from personal experience that every moment is a gift.
You are so right... Every moment is a gift. When I was growing up both parents worked and from age 5 I got up and ready for school and made my own breakfast... ALONE... I came home to the house..alone.... Until 600 pm every day... I also played sports.... And went to my games... Yep... Alone.... Although my parents were off work for games... They never went to the first of anything I did... And it hurt me greatly. When I had kids, I swore I would never miss a thing and I am so grateful I never have. Wen there are school functions, I close for that time frame unless my husband is home and then he is my backup for mom functions. He works out if state weeks at a time and misses a lot. But I haven't. And I refuse to.

Unfortunately though, we can't make parents care or make them want to spend time with their kids. That's one reason I wrote my policy the way I did. They know it up front. There's also a clause that if I have an emergency health related or not, I'm closed period end of story. Maybe that's why it doesn't bother me so much I'm not sure.
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Former Teacher 04:16 PM 05-05-2013
It use to bother me as well when children would be at my former center for 10plus hours a day. Sadder yet is that the younger they were the longer they were in care

Maybe because I am one of those women who would sell their soul for a child and there are women out there that take their children for granted.
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Kaddidle Care 04:32 PM 05-05-2013
Originally Posted by Mister Sir Husband:
I noticed a few different providers venting that the parents are either not at work, or left early and didn't pick up their kid right away. I'm sorry... maybe its because I'm new to this, but so what? My contract is going to list my hours of operation. If a parent drops off in the morning and picks up by closing time, how is it any of my business if they went to work, home to nap, the store, a casino, etc.. I'm being paid to watch the kid for up to 11 hours per day. As long as the parents pick up and drop off within this time frame, and the check doesn't bounce.. I'm good.
A lot of Home Daycare providers are Stay at home Moms. They value the time spent with their own children and have a hard time understanding those that don't want to spend time with their children. Sometimes we wonder why they even have children in the first place.

In my eyes a career will never be equal to the time I have spent with my children.
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littlemissmuffet 07:18 PM 05-05-2013
Originally Posted by Mister Sir Husband:
I am still in the process of becoming registered as a day care provider and have been reading posts on this site for weeks now. I noticed a few different providers venting that the parents are either not at work, or left early and didn't pick up their kid right away. I'm sorry... maybe its because I'm new to this, but so what? My contract is going to list my hours of operation. If a parent drops off in the morning and picks up by closing time, how is it any of my business if they went to work, home to nap, the store, a casino, etc.. I'm being paid to watch the kid for up to 11 hours per day. As long as the parents pick up and drop off within this time frame, and the check doesn't bounce.. I'm good.
I felt that way a long time ago when I first started too... but after years of dealing with parents and all the bs that comes with it, your attitude can start to change. Also, once you do this job for awhile you can really notice a difference between the child who spends virtually no awake time with their own parents vs the children who do...
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DAYCARERUNAWAY 08:24 PM 05-05-2013
I agree with the others.

When a parent takes off work (generally) they're getting paid to NOT work. They have some sort of allotted hours for paid time off. While I get maybe once in awhile they need to do errands, many parents are just like what other PP's have said:

The same ones who are late, not easily accessible, bring their children sick, etc.

What I do not understand is why parents feel entitled to paid time off, but do not feel that the person who helps them raise their child isn't worthy enough to get time off. It would be nice if parents would realize that daycare providers work their butts off! Daycare is not easy, and time and again, I had parents tell me they could "never do your job" to me. Sometimes I think people have kids like Paris Hilton had dogs...as accessories. I once had a child with me from 5:45 am until 6pm and then an ALTERNATE care provider picked up the child from 6pm until 10pm. The parents had every excuse as to why they coudn't be there for their child. Then the ONE time mom decides to show up for her daughter's Girl Scouts and the teacher didn't want to let her in (as she did NOT know this parent) she gets upset?

I feel that if parents are going to have children, they need to do right by those children. It's a SACRIFICE. Sometimes, I get the feeling parents do not understand this and it's all about them instead of the kid.

I remember many times when parents wouldn't do things for their kids, but constantly did things for themselves and boyfriends or friends. It seemed like the kids came last, and that's terribly sad.

This, among other reasons, is part of what had me close down.
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lovemykidstoo 04:39 AM 05-06-2013
Really I don't have parents that do this alot so it's not that big of a deal for me right now. Having said that, I do have one family that I have their son who just turned 2. They just had a baby, so mom is on maternity leave. He still comes 10 hours a day, 3 days a week. Last week she asked me if he was good for me and she said he's been terrible at home. Well, duh, you just rocked his world with a new baby and still leave him here 30 hours a week. So, 3 days a week they pick him up, feed him dinner, bath time and off to bed he goes. Can't imagine why he's having such a hard time. There is no reason he can't be picked up even after 6-7 hours when he's here. That still keeps him somewhat on a schedule and gives him more mom time. That irritates me.
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countrymom 06:03 AM 05-06-2013
I've had kids who have been even forgotten to be picked up. I had one mom who needed the day off to put up her christmas tree and then another day to take it down. He ds was so good that he helped me with my tree and he loved it. I've had moms who were suppose to be in school go tanning, their hair done and their nails.

now i work on contract hours. I know where the parents are (and this is important when kids get sick) every one comes and gets their kids when work is done. I wish I would have done it years ago.
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NeedaVaca 06:27 AM 05-06-2013
I would love an update after you have started your job maybe 6 months out, just because I would like to know if you change your opinion. That would be interesting! I personally don't care too much but there are times that it bothers me, depends on the situation. I can tell the difference in the behavior of my kids that spend a lot of time with mom/dad vs the ones that don't.

What especially bothers me was that thread with the DCG crying for dad next door and he wouldn't even wave or look at her, that is very sad. A PP mentioned the DCM taking the day off for Christmas tree decorating, I find that sad too I love doing holiday decorations with my kids, those memories will last forever!

That song Cat's in the Cradle? Those lyrics always make me tear up and unfortunately it will be the story of some of these DCF's They won't realize what they are missing until it's too late...
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bunnyslippers 06:36 AM 05-06-2013
Originally Posted by NeedaVaca:
I would love an update after you have started your job maybe 6 months out, just because I would like to know if you change your opinion. That would be interesting! I personally don't care too much but there are times that it bothers me, depends on the situation. I can tell the difference in the behavior of my kids that spend a lot of time with mom/dad vs the ones that don't.

What especially bothers me was that thread with the DCG crying for dad next door and he wouldn't even wave or look at her, that is very sad. A PP mentioned the DCM taking the day off for Christmas tree decorating, I find that sad too I love doing holiday decorations with my kids, those memories will last forever!

That song Cat's in the Cradle? Those lyrics always make me tear up and unfortunately it will be the story of some of these DCF's They won't realize what they are missing until it's too late...
I will update you, but I am sure my feelings will remain the same. I worked outside of the home the first year my son was born. I couldn't pick him up fast enough at the end of the day!

My neighbor's are famous for dumping their child on anyone they can. The dad takes off his birthday every year, and his daughter spends the day here, with me. I can't think of anything sadder than NOT being with my children on my birthday. Everyone is different...but I don't understand it. Their child is my most attention-craving dck. It isn't hard to figure out why that is the case.

That song makes me cry, every single time.
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NeedaVaca 06:40 AM 05-06-2013
Originally Posted by bunnyslippers:
I will update you, but I am sure my feelings will remain the same. I worked outside of the home the first year my son was born. I couldn't pick him up fast enough at the end of the day!

My neighbor's are famous for dumping their child on anyone they can. The dad takes off his birthday every year, and his daughter spends the day here, with me. I can't think of anything sadder than NOT being with my children on my birthday. Everyone is different...but I don't understand it. Their child is my most attention-craving dck. It isn't hard to figure out why that is the case.

That song makes me cry, every single time.
I didn't mean for you to update, I meant the OP since they haven't started doing daycare yet
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crazydaycarelady 06:44 AM 05-06-2013
As long as the check does not bounce and they stay within my operating hours I really don't care what they are doing either.

However........when they are NOT working you will find they usually pick up late!

My town once called off school and most businesses closed because the roads were so icy and dangerous. I had parents who got called off work because of the dangerous roads still venture out to bring their kid to my house!!!!
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bunnyslippers 06:56 AM 05-06-2013
Originally Posted by NeedaVaca:
I didn't mean for you to update, I meant the OP since they haven't started doing daycare yet
LOL. Monday morning confusion on my part...it is going to be a long week.
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lovemykidstoo 06:58 AM 05-06-2013
Originally Posted by crazydaycarelady:
As long as the check does not bounce and they stay within my operating hours I really don't care what they are doing either.

However........when they are NOT working you will find they usually pick up late!

My town once called off school and most businesses closed because the roads were so icy and dangerous. I had parents who got called off work because of the dangerous roads still venture out to bring their kid to my house!!!!
I've had this too. Not this past winter, but winter before we got over 18 inches of snow. LIterally the whole town was closed down. I live in a sub and I had a family bring their 2 kids and they got stuck down the road. I had to go and walk through all of that snow to carry the kids back to my house. Are you ready for what these people do for a living? They OWN their own business. Ready for the rest of it? It's a motorcycle repair shop!!!! Ok, I think that they could have missed a day of work. Think that people weren't in a real hurry to get their motorcycles with 18 "'s of snow.
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Mom&Provider 08:41 AM 05-06-2013
Yup! Not surprised by anything I've read! It seems to be the norm that parents send vs keeping home, and often. I like that some have added in their contract that they only care for kids who's parents are at work, but does that not just open the door to parents lying if they do have a day off??

I have a teacher family, kids are sent over the summer (2 or 3 days per week) and DCM even sent DCG 3 days per week while she was off on mat leave...that's a year where I live!! Granted she wanted to just send 2 days, and I said no, so she agreed to 3, but still! I can totally see sending DCG on occasion if she had an appointment or something, but really...that many days per week, every week seemed a bit much! In my contract she isn't responsible to pay over the summer, just leave a holding deposit, so she didn't have to send her daughter here at all or could have opted for the occasional day if she really needed someone.

What's worse is March Break came around this year and I seriously thought she'd keep the kids home with her, she had gone back to work in February, NOPE...every day all day here with me from open till close!! It's sad really, since I would have loved a day with limited kids when my own son was also on break...but no...

I get that everyone needs a break, but I think the issue is more when we do want some time off (or need it for an emergency) we are given a hard time about it or made to feel guilty. At least for me and it makes me feel terribly under appreciated for all my work.
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Babybear911 08:46 AM 05-06-2013
Originally Posted by Mister Sir Husband:
I am still in the process of becoming registered as a day care provider and have been reading posts on this site for weeks now. I noticed a few different providers venting that the parents are either not at work, or left early and didn't pick up their kid right away. I'm sorry... maybe its because I'm new to this, but so what? My contract is going to list my hours of operation. If a parent drops off in the morning and picks up by closing time, how is it any of my business if they went to work, home to nap, the store, a casino, etc.. I'm being paid to watch the kid for up to 11 hours per day. As long as the parents pick up and drop off within this time frame, and the check doesn't bounce.. I'm good.
Trust me...you will be annoyed when people keep dropping off early and picking up late!
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melilley 11:46 AM 05-06-2013
I'm kind of in the middle as to what to think of parents who bring their kids while they have a day off. I generally don't care what the parents do while their children are at my house, but I have contracted hours and they have to leave by the time their hours are up. I am open 12 hours, but I contract out hours so that children aren't left at my house for the whole 12 hours, unless of course they have a job that requires a shift that long (some nurses in my area work 3-12 hour shifts), but I haven't run into that yet.
I do think sometimes it is ok. For instance, I have one child who is here today and his dad is at home, but this child is 18 mo, old and is VERY active! Well the dad is packing to go to Japan so they brought him so that he could pack. He is going to be picked up early though and this family never brings him on their days off. Or I have a mom who needs to study so she will leave her son here for a little while after work. In those instances, it doesn't really bother me.
I do however think that it's sad when people habitually leave their children when they are at home and could spend that time with their children. Parents do need time every once in a while, but I don't think it should be every time they have a day off.
Another point is that families who receive state pay can't bring their children unless they are working, at school, or are doing something to get a job. Just thought I would throw that out there.
I hope this makes sense, the kids are waking up!
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julie 12:10 PM 05-06-2013
Originally Posted by NeedaVaca:
I would love an update after you have started your job maybe 6 months out, just because I would like to know if you change your opinion. That would be interesting! I personally don't care too much but there are times that it bothers me, depends on the situation. I can tell the difference in the behavior of my kids that spend a lot of time with mom/dad vs the ones that don't.

What especially bothers me was that thread with the DCG crying for dad next door and he wouldn't even wave or look at her, that is very sad. A PP mentioned the DCM taking the day off for Christmas tree decorating, I find that sad too I love doing holiday decorations with my kids, those memories will last forever!

That song Cat's in the Cradle? Those lyrics always make me tear up and unfortunately it will be the story of some of these DCF's They won't realize what they are missing until it's too late...
I totally agree with this. I love posts with definite opinions before the person is actually doing the job. Kind of reminds me of my sister who has all sorts of ideas about parenting and has yet to parent yet.

OP, it's possible that you will start and feel the same way six months down the road, but it's also possible that you will change your mind once you see the effect on the kids. I started out open 10.5 hours and I had one family that used all of it, whether they were off or not. It definitely had an effect on their little one. He was so miserable. Way MORE miserable on the days the parents dropped off in sweats. He could tell they weren't going to work. Even at 14 months he could tell. Had a few others that were like that too.

Eventually switched my hours to contracted and only within 9.5h span of time. Most are here 8-8.5hours now. The kids in my care are much happier, have far more face time with their parents and I enjoy my job more. Before, I just felt bad for the kids here from the break of dawn to the very last minute of close (and often late) and I knew they didn't need to be. I also naively thought that no one would leave their kid in daycare all the time just because they could when I started. I wanted to be with my kids all the time, so I assumed that the working was just something they had to do and they would pick up as soon as they were done. Not the case. And I don't begrudge some "me" time as we all need a recharge now and again, but there has to be a limit sometime, don't you think? I can't place that limit, so I place the limit on my hours and hope the parents do the right thing for their kids.
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DaisyMamma 12:14 PM 05-06-2013
Originally Posted by NeedaVaca:
I would love an update after you have started your job maybe 6 months out, just because I would like to know if you change your opinion. That would be interesting! I personally don't care too much but there are times that it bothers me, depends on the situation. I can tell the difference in the behavior of my kids that spend a lot of time with mom/dad vs the ones that don't.

What especially bothers me was that thread with the DCG crying for dad next door and he wouldn't even wave or look at her, that is very sad. A PP mentioned the DCM taking the day off for Christmas tree decorating, I find that sad too I love doing holiday decorations with my kids, those memories will last forever!

That song Cat's in the Cradle? Those lyrics always make me tear up and unfortunately it will be the story of some of these DCF's They won't realize what they are missing until it's too late...
I would love to see an update too. I also remember thinking the same thing two years ago. I also planned on being open 11 hours per day.
Now I'm open 9 hours per day.
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Mister Sir Husband 01:41 PM 05-06-2013
I do appreciate everyone's thoughts on this matter, and now do have a better understanding of what I can expect when I do open. I'm not thinking it's going to help much, but I am planning on writing in my contract that if a parent gives me enough notice that they won't be bringing their kid on a certain day (a week sounds about right) I won't charge them for it and they will only be responsible for 4 days that week. I'm thinking it might sway their decision to bring the child on their day off if they can keep junior home and not have to pay me for it anyways. I of course will also have a clause right after this for parents that think they are going to misuse this and only pay 4 days every week.
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NeedaVaca 02:06 PM 05-06-2013
I like how you are trying to get your contract ready to go and figure out a monetary reason for parents to keep their kids home with them occasionally. IMO-mom will use the day off to save some $ and the DCK will end up at grandma's. I also hope the clause you add is really specific or they will try to do it as often as possible to save $. Good Luck with everything, I hope your start up goes well I remember how hard it was to get started and make my policies the 1st time! So many ways to go...
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bunnyslippers 02:49 PM 05-06-2013
Originally Posted by Mister Sir Husband:
I do appreciate everyone's thoughts on this matter, and now do have a better understanding of what I can expect when I do open. I'm not thinking it's going to help much, but I am planning on writing in my contract that if a parent gives me enough notice that they won't be bringing their kid on a certain day (a week sounds about right) I won't charge them for it and they will only be responsible for 4 days that week. I'm thinking it might sway their decision to bring the child on their day off if they can keep junior home and not have to pay me for it anyways. I of course will also have a clause right after this for parents that think they are going to misuse this and only pay 4 days every week.
Before you make a clause like that in your contract, make sure you run the numbers on how that will impact your bottom line. If you have a family per week decide to use this clause, even if it is different families, you may notice a significant hit to your income. It is thoughtful, but may be pretty costly.
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Heidi 02:59 PM 05-06-2013
Originally Posted by Mister Sir Husband:
I do appreciate everyone's thoughts on this matter, and now do have a better understanding of what I can expect when I do open. I'm not thinking it's going to help much, but I am planning on writing in my contract that if a parent gives me enough notice that they won't be bringing their kid on a certain day (a week sounds about right) I won't charge them for it and they will only be responsible for 4 days that week. I'm thinking it might sway their decision to bring the child on their day off if they can keep junior home and not have to pay me for it anyways. I of course will also have a clause right after this for parents that think they are going to misuse this and only pay 4 days every week.
I'd suggest a compromise if you're determined to do this:

Give a PARTIAL reduction for the 5th day, not a whole reduction. So, if you're weekly rate is $125, and they keep kiddo home one day, they only pay $110 or something.

Also, limit it to a certain amount of days per year. 5 maybe.

Are you going to contract for paid time off of your own? Sick days, personal days, holidays, vacation time? How are you going to handle their vacations, etc?
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EntropyControlSpecialist 03:19 PM 05-06-2013
Originally Posted by DaisyMamma:
The worst I've seen is a parent is home/off work and it's child's birthday and child is here for the entire 9 hours (I only do 9 hr days).

The next is that parent leaves work early to go home and make a cake for child's party at school that night and child is here.....in my mind that is something that the child should be doing WITH the parent. That is a huge bonding thing. The child was a 7.5 year old girl and would have LOVED that special time with mom.... So sad. and I only live a 2 minutes drive from their home. How great would it have been if parent had come here and surprised girl by getting her off the bus and taken her home to do that???? That's what I would have done, but apparently that's just me
I had a child attend today on their birthday and the Mom did not work. When the child picked up their birthday gift from me in their cubby to take home, the Mom said, "What is that for???" to which I replied, "DCC's birthday..." and she raised her eyebrows really wide and said, "OH! YES! HER BIRTHDAY!!! Yay!!!"

You CAN typically tell which children are in daycare more hours than not each week. Their behavior is far different from those who have parents trying to spend as much time as they can with them.
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MarinaVanessa 04:00 PM 05-06-2013
Originally Posted by Mister Sir Husband:
I do appreciate everyone's thoughts on this matter, and now do have a better understanding of what I can expect when I do open. I'm not thinking it's going to help much, but I am planning on writing in my contract that if a parent gives me enough notice that they won't be bringing their kid on a certain day (a week sounds about right) I won't charge them for it and they will only be responsible for 4 days that week. I'm thinking it might sway their decision to bring the child on their day off if they can keep junior home and not have to pay me for it anyways. I of course will also have a clause right after this for parents that think they are going to misuse this and only pay 4 days every week.
I used to do it this way but instead of keeping sick kids out, parent's took advantage and would tell me that their child is sick but would just keep them home because they found a family member or friend to watch their kid for cheap or free.

What I found works better for illness is still charging a flat weekly rate, requiring that their child stay home and if they voluntarily keep the child home they keep their child home for 24 hours after the symptoms go away, if their child "suddenly gets sick" at daycare and is sent home then the 24 hours turns into 48 hours. This immediately took care of any dope-and-drops (giving kids fever/pain reducers to mask the symptoms).
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thatdivalady 06:04 PM 05-06-2013
Originally Posted by Mom&Provider:
Some providers care and others don't, I'm one that cares.

You'll come to realize that some parents often take advantage of the fact that you are there and when they come in picking up right at close announcing what an amazing day at the spa and lunch with a friend was you might be fine with it UNTIL you become ill or need a day off to do something with your own child or for yourself and they pull a fit...then you'll know why some of us care. Not all parents are like this, but some are and it is very wearing when it becomes a regular thing. I also have parents (same ones who take the days off), who finish work early enough to pick-up around 4 pm, but go home, take a nap or start dinner and then come here. This is especially bothersome when their child isn't feeling the best because of a cold or I could have used the extra time to prepare our own dinner etc.
This. Exactly this. Now I come from a different place with this considering the fact that I offer 24/7 care at both of my locations. BUT when I have parents on the weekends who are specifically given a "daycare" rate instead of an hourly babysitting rate due to going to work or school, yes I am very angry when I find out that they are lying.

I had one DCM show up to pick her child up after clearly having gone out with her significant other -- dressed up, make up on, hair done and ALL! During the weekdays, I don't care. On the weekends, yes I care plenty.

I had another DCM consistently lie to me about her school schedule (Sat and Sun from 6am to 6pm? seriously?) and when confronted about needing a school schedule she hemmed and hawed.

Daycare rates are usually scripted for a caregiver going to work or school. I don't know about your state regulations but here, that is the specific definition of daycare. If they are not going to work or school, it is considered babysitting and providers can feel free to charge a comparable hourly rate for those services. Just my two cents
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melilley 06:21 PM 05-06-2013
Originally Posted by EntropyControlSpecialist:
I had a child attend today on their birthday and the Mom did not work. When the child picked up their birthday gift from me in their cubby to take home, the Mom said, "What is that for???" to which I replied, "DCC's birthday..." and she raised her eyebrows really wide and said, "OH! YES! HER BIRTHDAY!!! Yay!!!"

You CAN typically tell which children are in daycare more hours than not each week. Their behavior is far different from those who have parents trying to spend as much time as they can with them.
Now that's crazy! I would feel terrible if I sent my child to daycare on their birthday if I had the day off. And it sounds like she forgot it was her birthday at that!
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Mister Sir Husband 06:34 PM 05-06-2013
Originally Posted by Heidi:
I'd suggest a compromise if you're determined to do this:

Give a PARTIAL reduction for the 5th day, not a whole reduction. So, if you're weekly rate is $125, and they keep kiddo home one day, they only pay $110 or something.

Also, limit it to a certain amount of days per year. 5 maybe.

Are you going to contract for paid time off of your own? Sick days, personal days, holidays, vacation time? How are you going to handle their vacations, etc?
I am planning on contracting that I'm paid for holidays, and of course will be closed. (labor day, memorial day, 4th of July, etc..) My vacation time will be unpaid, as I just don't feel right making parents pay me to sit on a beach while they also pay someone else that week to watch their kid. I also don't plan on having parents pay me when they go on vacation ... of course though with conditions like their account is paid up, (and am thinking perhaps has never been late) they give me enough notice, etc.. They also only get so many weeks per year out of me before I charge them at least a partial amount to hold the spot for them. I want to make this more of like a reward for those parents that don't make my life difficult with late pickups (which is a fee) and those who pay me on time (another fee if they don't). I'm still working out the finer details on this one...
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countrymom 07:07 PM 05-06-2013
in my area (remember this is where I live) I could never charge for the week. So I charge by the day, and if they don't come they don't pay for the day. It has worked out great for me (except for the one mom) but by doing this I never get sick kids, parents keep their kids home, so for me it works out great. Yes its hard to figure out money wise, but I have a dh that works too, but it would be the same as if I worked part time. Every week would be different.
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RosieMommy 09:18 PM 05-06-2013
This is something that as a parent I don't really get in terms of the judgement of other parents. I understand that many providers think parents should spend as much time as possible with their kids but I do not understand that judgement. Not every parent wants to be spend every free moment they have with their kids. I don't think it makes them BAD or lousy parents. I will also say that a lot of parents probably do this not because they are lazy but because they are paying for it. Childcare is a HUGE expense for many families (especially if you have multiple kids who need childcare) and even if you are off and wouldn't mind spending the extra time, it can be hard to do when you're not getting a reduction in the rate etc. I just don't care for the judgement of other parents and making it seem like these other parents don't love their kids as much etc and the mommy olympics. I just don't think that's true. But everyone is entitled to their opinion etc and you run your business how you want. Not every provider and family are a good fit for each other.
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youretooloud 10:11 PM 05-06-2013
Off topic. But, I just now realized that your name is MISTER sir husband....

For two days, I thought it was MASTER sir husband. I must say, I feel let down now.
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Leigh 07:01 AM 05-07-2013
If parents are paying for that time, it's their time to do with as they please. I, too, would love it if parents kept their kids at home when possible and still paid me for NOT caring for them. The fact is, I understand that there are things that are just easier to do when you don't have your kids around (cleaning the garage, painting the house, attending a doctor's appointment, even getting some shopping done or taking a much needed nap).

As a provider, I certainly understand the others who say that they want those kids picked up as soon as the parents are off work (I would like that, too!), but I can't demand it from them when I contracted for those hours. If I were to insist that the kids were kept home when parents were home, I would feel morally obligated to NOT charge the parents for that time. My salary is for 45 hours per week (I charge by the hour after that). I feel obligated to provide 45 hours whenever possible, since that is what I promised in my contract. I am inflexible with my contract, and hold parents to every sentence printed in there-I can't give them less than what I expect. I also can't let my own feelings come into play about what kind of parents they are-sometimes people are better parents for the time they have away from their kids.
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RosieMommy 07:07 AM 05-07-2013
Originally Posted by Leigh:
If parents are paying for that time, it's their time to do with as they please. I, too, would love it if parents kept their kids at home when possible and still paid me for NOT caring for them. The fact is, I understand that there are things that are just easier to do when you don't have your kids around (cleaning the garage, painting the house, attending a doctor's appointment, even getting some shopping done or taking a much needed nap).

As a provider, I certainly understand the others who say that they want those kids picked up as soon as the parents are off work (I would like that, too!), but I can't demand it from them when I contracted for those hours. If I were to insist that the kids were kept home when parents were home, I would feel morally obligated to NOT charge the parents for that time. My salary is for 45 hours per week (I charge by the hour after that). I feel obligated to provide 45 hours whenever possible, since that is what I promised in my contract. I am inflexible with my contract, and hold parents to every sentence printed in there, I can't give them less than what I expect. I also can't let me own feelings come into play about what kind of parents they are-sometimes people are better parents for the time they have away from their kids.
This.
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Evansmom 09:53 AM 05-07-2013
I skimmed through this post and don't see this mentioned so I thought I'd add my experience.

I'm of the mind that as long as I'm paid on time and in full I don't care where the parents are, home, work, out, whatever. I learned a long time ago that many don't parent the hands on way I do. I find it sad but I can't do much about it.

The problem I have with parents bringing kids to daycare and take a lot of time off is that I've found that when I have to close a day for vacation or illness (which I'm lucky we don't do but 2-3 days per year for illness) the parents that give me a hard time about closing are the exact ones who take all that time off and are still bringing their kids to my daycare. I get the "oh no! You're closing?! What am I going to do?!! I can't take any more days off!!!!" response from the parent. Well if they hadn't taken all their personal days already and saved them for when they actually need them then they wouldn't be in that situation!

I had one who's own daughter had pneumonia and was complaining of taking the time off!!! Instead of being concerned for her child. But a few weeks before she went to Vegas for a week! Ugh!
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Play Care 10:44 AM 05-07-2013
Originally Posted by Leigh:
If parents are paying for that time, it's their time to do with as they please. I, too, would love it if parents kept their kids at home when possible and still paid me for NOT caring for them. The fact is, I understand that there are things that are just easier to do when you don't have your kids around (cleaning the garage, painting the house, attending a doctor's appointment, even getting some shopping done or taking a much needed nap).

As a provider, I certainly understand the others who say that they want those kids picked up as soon as the parents are off work (I would like that, too!), but I can't demand it from them when I contracted for those hours. If I were to insist that the kids were kept home when parents were home, I would feel morally obligated to NOT charge the parents for that time. My salary is for 45 hours per week (I charge by the hour after that). I feel obligated to provide 45 hours whenever possible, since that is what I promised in my contract. I am inflexible with my contract, and hold parents to every sentence printed in there-I can't give them less than what I expect. I also can't let my own feelings come into play about what kind of parents they are-sometimes people are better parents for the time they have away from their kids.
I agree. It often surprises me that some providers feel their clients "owe" them time off. When I worked outside the home my boss never came up and said "you look tired, why don't you take the rest of the day off!" It is my responsiblilty to set my hours/schedule in a way that suits me and that includes taking time off - both preplanned and sick time (you won't ever see me post bragging about years with no call outs for illness, if I need it, I take it)
Now, if a parent was frequently taking time off and thus was not able to pick up a sick child or keep them home, or gave me a hard time for taking timeoff, that's grounds for termination.
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lovemykidstoo 10:52 AM 05-07-2013
I don't think my parents "owe" me time off, I think they owe their child time off. Like I mentioned my situation above, one of my families had a baby and the mother is on maternity leave. The 2 year old boy is still with me 3 days a week, 10 hours a day (normal schedule). What irritates me is she is bewildered as to why he's throwing fits and being so bad at home lately. Maybe he's crying out for attention. Why wouldn't they leave him here for 7 or 8 hours instead of 10? That's what bothers me. I dont' care if the parents are going to the gym after work or to the store or whatever, but this situation bothers me ONLY because the child is bothered by it.
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Play Care 11:03 AM 05-07-2013
Originally Posted by lovemykidstoo:
I don't think my parents "owe" me time off, I think they owe their child time off. Like I mentioned my situation above, one of my families had a baby and the mother is on maternity leave. The 2 year old boy is still with me 3 days a week, 10 hours a day (normal schedule). What irritates me is she is bewildered as to why he's throwing fits and being so bad at home lately. Maybe he's crying out for attention. Why wouldn't they leave him here for 7 or 8 hours instead of 10? That's what bothers me. I dont' care if the parents are going to the gym after work or to the store or whatever, but this situation bothers me ONLY because the child is bothered by it.
What I said was not meant personally. I totally understand why your situation is frustrating! I'm talking about the general attitude from some providers that seem to think the parent should be thinking about them (the provider) and their families/lives, etc. Some of the posts on this thread have left me with that feeling of "owing" the provider time off - not yours.
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RosieMommy 12:12 PM 05-07-2013
Originally Posted by Play Care:
What I said was not meant personally. I totally understand why your situation is frustrating! I'm talking about the general attitude from some providers that seem to think the parent should be thinking about them (the provider) and their families/lives, etc. Some of the posts on this thread have left me with that feeling of "owing" the provider time off - not yours.
Exactly. I'm not a fan of the "you're home so you should pick up your kid because it would be nice for me to get off early too." Providers are not employees and it isn't fair to put the parents in that position if the provider wants to be seen as a business owner and not an employee.
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lovemykidstoo 12:47 PM 05-07-2013
Originally Posted by Play Care:
What I said was not meant personally. I totally understand why your situation is frustrating! I'm talking about the general attitude from some providers that seem to think the parent should be thinking about them (the provider) and their families/lives, etc. Some of the posts on this thread have left me with that feeling of "owing" the provider time off - not yours.
I understand, thank you. I know what you mean. I have had parents bring early, pick up later (not late, just later) to do various things and I don't care because I'm working 7:30 to 5:30 anyway, so it really doesn't normally make a difference if I have 4 kids or 5 kids. I have felt the same way as you, so our thoughts are really pretty similar. The only time I get upset is when the child is upset. The little boy that I'm referring too is very often the last child here and he gets upset when that happens and when I know that mom is at home with new baby, that bothers me. I actually asked everyone to pick up early today due to my sons sporting event and she will still be the last one to pick up. That is frustrating.
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AmyKidsCo 12:53 PM 05-07-2013
Originally Posted by Mister Sir Husband:
I am still in the process of becoming registered as a day care provider and have been reading posts on this site for weeks now. I noticed a few different providers venting that the parents are either not at work, or left early and didn't pick up their kid right away. I'm sorry... maybe its because I'm new to this, but so what? My contract is going to list my hours of operation. If a parent drops off in the morning and picks up by closing time, how is it any of my business if they went to work, home to nap, the store, a casino, etc.. I'm being paid to watch the kid for up to 11 hours per day. As long as the parents pick up and drop off within this time frame, and the check doesn't bounce.. I'm good.
I've always had the same attitude, for the most part. I do get frustrated when a child is with me an entire day while the parents are home - especially if that child was first drop-off right at opening and last pick-up right at closing. Actually, first drop-off doesn't bother me as much as last pick-up does; by the end of the day I'm tired and ready for my time off!
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thatdivalady 02:27 PM 05-07-2013
Originally Posted by RosieMommy:
Exactly. I'm not a fan of the "you're home so you should pick up your kid because it would be nice for me to get off early too." Providers are not employees and it isn't fair to put the parents in that position if the provider wants to be seen as a business owner and not an employee.
I'm not sure where I am on this because I think it depends on your perception. When I worked for an employer I received 2 weeks of vacation paid. I also received sick days and personal days. In my area, it is hard as an in-home provider to get the same thing. And yes I do know there are people who do it, I'm just saying that it would be hard to fill spots taking some of the days that other providers on this forum do.

No, I don't think I'm OWED time. But I do believe that providers should have as much time as possible for r&r. On a more personal note, as a parent, I understand needing some time off to run errands, etc. But I balanced the two things when my daughter was with an in-home provider and there is a difference between taking some time from time to time and just generally taking advantage. I also understood that for my child alone she was being paid way less than minimum wage so I did not want to take advantage and believed that she was definitely entitled to recharge time. Is it the parent's fault if your numbers are down? No, but it is a reality. If I were to close down my alternative hours I would probably be better off financially but there would be more parents in the world who would have no alternatives (no other family members in the area, no other providers willing to do those hours). So yes, I definitely need my "me" time!
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Mom&Provider 02:50 PM 05-07-2013
Originally Posted by Play Care:
I'm talking about the general attitude from some providers that seem to think the parent should be thinking about them (the provider) and their families/lives, etc. Some of the posts on this thread have left me with that feeling of "owing" the provider time off - not yours.
I don't think I am "owed" anything, but I do get offended when parents feel/act like I owe THEM something! When I need a day to do something for myself (a Dr.'s app for example) or my own children (stomach flu for example), I get a hard time for it.

It's not that I want free time, so they'd better come early when they can and not send their children at all when they are off, BUT I also don't agree that it's ok for some parents to send their children from open to close on a regular basis even when they are home. That's not about giving me free time, I won't have that anyway since I have other kids here, but it's for their own child's benefit and it's being honest, upfront and respectful of me and my time...yes I said my time...not because they "owe" me anything, but because these parents in my case are also the parents who have the day off and don't show up till I close or after!
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Mom&Provider 02:56 PM 05-07-2013
Originally Posted by RosieMommy:
Exactly. I'm not a fan of the "you're home so you should pick up your kid because it would be nice for me to get off early too." Providers are not employees and it isn't fair to put the parents in that position if the provider wants to be seen as a business owner and not an employee.
If I'm not an employee, then why do they pay me? Why am I 'hired' so to speak to care for their child? Just curious what you call yourself then? On my taxes, I am self employed, which kinda makes me my own employee too. Yes, I own and run my own daycare, but what I/you put in your contract are the details of caring for their child. Some providers include paid time off, sick days etc. Just because I own the business, does not mean that I am not employed by the parents...if they didn't' pay me, I wouldn't' be self-employed, I'd be unemployed.
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RosieMommy 06:15 PM 05-07-2013
Originally Posted by Mom&Provider:
If I'm not an employee, then why do they pay me? Why am I 'hired' so to speak to care for their child? Just curious what you call yourself then? On my taxes, I am self employed, which kinda makes me my own employee too. Yes, I own and run my own daycare, but what I/you put in your contract are the details of caring for their child. Some providers include paid time off, sick days etc. Just because I own the business, does not mean that I am not employed by the parents...if they didn't' pay me, I wouldn't' be self-employed, I'd be unemployed.
I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. A provider is not by any definition an employee. You are a service provider, similar to a doctor, a mechanic, lawyer, etc -- you provide a service for which I may contract you to provide. You control your hours, do not work under my direction or control, work at your own location etc. I wouldn't call my doctor my employee nor do I call my childcare provider that.

I am self employed because I work for myself and a company which I control (my practice). I provide services to people but I do not work under the direction and control of another person.
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RosieMommy 06:37 PM 05-07-2013
Originally Posted by thatdivalady:
I'm not sure where I am on this because I think it depends on your perception. When I worked for an employer I received 2 weeks of vacation paid. I also received sick days and personal days. In my area, it is hard as an in-home provider to get the same thing. And yes I do know there are people who do it, I'm just saying that it would be hard to fill spots taking some of the days that other providers on this forum do.

No, I don't think I'm OWED time. But I do believe that providers should have as much time as possible for r&r. On a more personal note, as a parent, I understand needing some time off to run errands, etc. But I balanced the two things when my daughter was with an in-home provider and there is a difference between taking some time from time to time and just generally taking advantage. I also understood that for my child alone she was being paid way less than minimum wage so I did not want to take advantage and believed that she was definitely entitled to recharge time. Is it the parent's fault if your numbers are down? No, but it is a reality. If I were to close down my alternative hours I would probably be better off financially but there would be more parents in the world who would have no alternatives (no other family members in the area, no other providers willing to do those hours). So yes, I definitely need my "me" time!
I think perception is key for sure and perception isn't always consistent among parents and providers. I get your point about when you worked for an employer but providers are not employees, they are service providers so you lose those benefits you received when you were an employee because you are considered self employed. That is, unless you contract for it, which my provider does. I don't pay her paid vacation etc because I think she's owed it or deserves it just because she takes care of my child (I find that kind argument citing your child somewhat emotionally manipulative). I pay it because it's part of her contract, we like her and at the end of the day, are willing to pay it in exchange for what we receive. If it becomes a problem for us, we will go somewhere else.

I agree that providers need down time and time to recharge. My problem with the perception of being owed downtime like in the example I cited is that as the provider, you set your hours, you decide when you're going to work. Now, as someone who owns her own business, I get that even deciding what hours you are going to work is not completely free from restriction -- cash flow and other factors may dictate that you work not necessarily when you want or you take on clients that you might not want etc. But, that's kind of the cost of being in business for yourself. I cannot tell you of how many problem clients I have and clients I WISH I could fire, but I'm running a business, I need to make money, I have to make payroll etc. But at the end of the day, those are decisions *I* make because it's *my* business. So to me, if you're contracted to care for someone's child from 11am until 4pm, that's what you agreed to do in exchange for the things you bargained for -- a certain rate per week, paid vacation, or whatever it is. As the provider, you also decide when you want downtime. If you don't want to work until 4, you have the power to not take clients that will require that. So with that in mind, I just don't think it's fair to hold being tired or wanting a break over the parent's head just because the parent is at home for the day and sending their kid to daycare.

Now I'm not a provider so maybe if I were I'd feel differently, but as a parent, I didn't feel like my provider had less bargaining power than I did. In fact, I felt the opposite because I felt to a large degree she was calling the shots. And we really like her so we do everything in our power to keep her happy so she keeps us as clients (and of course we do what is fair and right like PAYING HER ON TIME and not picking up our child late). But my point is, I felt like she was in a position to ask for what she needed and wanted so I don't personally feel guilty if I take a day off while sending my child to daycare and I don't know why she would feel upset if I were to do that.
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thatdivalady 04:29 AM 05-08-2013
Originally Posted by RosieMommy:
I don't pay her paid vacation etc because I think she's owed it or deserves it just because she takes care of my child (I find that kind argument citing your child somewhat emotionally manipulative).

So to me, if you're contracted to care for someone's child from 11am until 4pm, that's what you agreed to do in exchange for the things you bargained for -- a certain rate per week, paid vacation, or whatever it is. As the provider, you also decide when you want downtime. If you don't want to work until 4, you have the power to not take clients that will require that. So with that in mind, I just don't think it's fair to hold being tired or wanting a break over the parent's head just because the parent is at home for the day and sending their kid to daycare.

Now I'm not a provider so maybe if I were I'd feel differently, but as a parent, I didn't feel like my provider had less bargaining power than I did. In fact, I felt the opposite because I felt to a large degree she was calling the shots.
Why is my comment regarding my child emotionally manipulative? It is my personal experience and I thought we were allowed to share our experiences on this forum? I shared it because it gives you one of the reasons for my personal perspective and why I feel the way that I do. I have the benefit of having been a recipient of a provider and now being a provider myself.

I did not even touch on the point about parents picking up their child early just because they are home. My point was completely different so I don't think you thoroughly read my post

After reading further I see your disclaimer about not being a provider and so I'll end it there because without having had that experience you, to some degree, lack that perspective.
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Play Care 05:46 AM 05-08-2013
Originally Posted by Mom&Provider:
I don't think I am "owed" anything, but I do get offended when parents feel/act like I owe THEM something! When I need a day to do something for myself (a Dr.'s app for example) or my own children (stomach flu for example), I get a hard time for it.

It's not that I want free time, so they'd better come early when they can and not send their children at all when they are off, BUT I also don't agree that it's ok for some parents to send their children from open to close on a regular basis even when they are home. That's not about giving me free time, I won't have that anyway since I have other kids here, but it's for their own child's benefit and it's being honest, upfront and respectful of me and my time...yes I said my time...not because they "owe" me anything, but because these parents in my case are also the parents who have the day off and don't show up till I close or after!
If parents are giving you a hard time for taking time off, then you need to put them on notice. If they are showing up after closing, then it's time for late fees or termination. That's your right as a business owner providing a service. I find parents are typically looking for reliable care so they don't have to worry about missing work or important appointments. And they pay for that, so yes, I owe them that because it's what I agreed to do when I started providing child care. If you have families that are abusing you, you will start to be resentful. Start advertising to get in new families and clean house. The best advice I ever received from a seasoned provider on getting parents to behave/follow rules was to get rid of the worst offenders and have their spots filled before they are even gone. This puts other parents on notice. And I've done it, it works

My parents are not my "boss" they don't take out taxes or social security from my paycheck - a requirement for employers.

Now, that doesn't mean that I want the type of parents who "dump" kids at dc. I keep my hours as short as possible - and I make it clear during my interview process that I can and will take time off and that any issues regarding that will find them looking for other care.
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RosieMommy 07:10 AM 05-08-2013
Originally Posted by thatdivalady:
Why is my comment regarding my child emotionally manipulative? It is my personal experience and I thought we were allowed to share our experiences on this forum? I shared it because it gives you one of the reasons for my personal perspective and why I feel the way that I do. I have the benefit of having been a recipient of a provider and now being a provider myself.

I did not even touch on the point about parents picking up their child early just because they are home. My point was completely different so I don't think you thoroughly read my post

After reading further I see your disclaimer about not being a provider and so I'll end it there because without having had that experience you, to some degree, lack that perspective.
I don't see where I was saying a comment you made about your child being emotionally manipulative. I think I didn't express that well and you misunderstood me. What I am saying is emotionally manipulative: a provider using the fact that they take care of a person's children as a reason to feel they are owed time, e.g., "I take care of your kids, the most important people in your life so you should want to give me a break." To me that's emotionally manipulative and really has nothing to do with how a provider at the end of the day chooses to run their business in terms of taking time off. Now, that doesn't mean that the provider is saying this in order to BE emotionally manipulative -- they may or may not be but that is the effect. That is what a lot of parents hear when a provider says that. Providers don't like it when parents do manipulative things ("Oh my gosh I can't pay you because this and this happened and can't you just work with us, I have nowhere to take my baby etc). I don't like it when my clients do it to ME.

Yes, I lack the perspective of a provider but I am providing another way of looking at things and I didn't feel like I was attacking anyone, including you or how you feel, so I'm really not sure why you took it that way. Further, I don't think my perspective is any less valid which is what you seem to suggest. You have the benefit of having been in both positions but I think I can offer something valuable to the discussion by bringing a different perspective of a parent. I thought I was respectfully disagreeing with you and/or stating my own perspective as a followup to what you were saying. I'm totally confused by your response.

And PS I read you post. I touched on parents bringing their children and staying home because that's essentially part of what this entire thread is about. As I said, it was a more of a followup to what you said. I wasn't speaking about you specifically at all.
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RosieMommy 07:18 AM 05-08-2013
Originally Posted by Mom&Provider:
I don't think I am "owed" anything, but I do get offended when parents feel/act like I owe THEM something! When I need a day to do something for myself (a Dr.'s app for example) or my own children (stomach flu for example), I get a hard time for it.

It's not that I want free time, so they'd better come early when they can and not send their children at all when they are off, BUT I also don't agree that it's ok for some parents to send their children from open to close on a regular basis even when they are home. That's not about giving me free time, I won't have that anyway since I have other kids here, but it's for their own child's benefit and it's being honest, upfront and respectful of me and my time...yes I said my time...not because they "owe" me anything, but because these parents in my case are also the parents who have the day off and don't show up till I close or after!
I agree with Play Care.

If your clients give you a hard time when you take off time per your policies, then that's their problem and they need to find a provider who is never going to take off time. Honestly, if I were you, I don't even know if I'd get into the details of why I was closing or taking time off etc. As long as it was according to the policies and contract both parties agreed to, it's not really the parent's business what you are doing or why. But you can't always choose your clients and I understand that a lot of parents sign contracts they apparently don't read. But still...I encourage you to stick to your contract and handbook and enforce your policies. No late pick ups etc.

Do you have a preschool program for all of the kids in your care?
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