Daycare.com Forum
Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Much Needed Advice
mommaprovider 01:42 PM 01-13-2016
Hello! I am newly registered to the site, but I have been reading posts during nap time non stop for the last week. I am also new to the day care concept. I have been a stay at home mom for most of my son's life and have taken on one DCK full time as of four months ago.
He is a loving boy of 3 years, listens fairly well (I usually do have to ask him twice), does not have violent tendencies, is mostly soft spoken, follows our schedule well, always goes down for naps easily, and he comes from a very sweet and responsible family.
I suppose that the issue I am having is that I am not entirely aware of what is "normal/acceptable" behavior for a three year old. What should I accept, what should I change, what should I ignore? That being said, DCK is pinching a nerve.
The first two weeks I cared for him he was a dream. Independent, but good at working in groups. He followed instructions well, was gentle with toys, willingly included my son in activities, and was a pro at using the toilet on his own, while standing up.
The time since then has been interesting.
He stopped using the toilet (this has now been rectified). He insisted I go in with him every time he needed to go, refused to pee standing up and instead wanted to sit on the potty training seat. If I asked him to please use the toilet like a "big boy" (because I was changing a diaper, keeping a meal from burning, picking up the pieces of a broken toy) he would purposely urinate on his clothes (I caught him doing this SO MANY times).
He asks me what the same items are every day, multiple times a day. Everything I ever say is always followed by a "why" (Me: Please go potty so you can take a nap. DCK: Why? OR Me: Please put away the toys before starting another activity. DCK: Why??). He asks me to explain why I do anything (what are you dooooiiiing???????????), even something as basic as removing a sticker from the underside of my foot. As soon as snack/lunch begins he always asks if snack/lunch is over (over and over again), so that he can get down and play. He does not eat. Anything. Except junk food, which I DO NOT provide. DCK also tattles. On the cats, on my son, even my husband. All the time, about everything and anything. He spends the day telling the whole household what to do, and what not to do. If he is not asking why, or what are you doing, he is saying I don't want to. I can address my husband by name, and ask him if he wants pizza for dinner and DCK will respond with "I don't want to. MP I DON"T WANT TO DO THAAAAAT.". I don't want to go outside, I don't want to eat that thing, I don't want to take part in that actitivity...Even if I tell him I was not asking him, or that he has no option, he will continue telling me that he really does not want to do the thing.
If my son runs to me to be picked up, DCK body blocks and asks for me to pick him up as well. DCK follows my every step (if I move from the sink to the fridge he is right behind me). I set up activities every day to give each of them individual time with me. When it is my son's time for his individual activity (breastfeeding included) DCK finds every reason to interrupt, even when I ask him not to...multiple times.
He will no longer include my son in activities, and actively tells me he does not want my son to do x and/or y, because he only wants to do it with me. If I tell him my son has to be included because he is a group activity he POUTS, and WHINES, and tells me he does not want to do it anymore. We take turns with certain toys, and when DCK's turn is over I find him putting toys out of my son's reach so he cannot play with them. DCK has now broken multiple toys becaues he will throw them against the floor instead of handing them over when it is my son's turn. My son is not a pushover. After weeks of DCK exhibiting this behavior my son has begun hitting DCK, and forcefully removing toys from his hands. He has also began to put toys where he thinks DCK cannot reach.
My son can be a nightmare plenty of times. Lucky for me DCK is right there ready to repeat the behavior I just told my son not to do. If my son accidentally breaks a jumbo crayon and I tell him it is okay because accidents happen, DCK will purposely break a jumbo crayon (this applies to anything accidentally broken/spilled/dropped). Why? Whyyy do you do this to me????
I am a strong believer in free play, but I also create multiple daily activities/crafts, and follow a strict schedule. DCK does not understand free play. I never go longer than 30 seconds (please understand I am being literal. I wish I was exaggerating. I do.) without verbally interacting with DCK, unless I flat out ignore him (which I do). He needs constant validation (I got paint on my finger. I got paint on my finger. I got paint in my finger. HEY. LOOK. I GOT PAINT ON MY FINGER.) It is almost as he needs me to acknowledge every little thing that he does. I am not used to this. My son plays so well alone. He will tell me when he thinks something is amusing, or when he wants me to participate, but for the most part he is taking part in a big creative scene he himself is unfolding. DCK insists I play with him at all times, if I say I cannot (or flat out will not) he walks around the room aimlessly and pouts (or sits down and pouts). When I do play with him he spends the whole time mimicking what I do, and does not participate in creative play. I play with them A LOT. SO MUCH. But I would appreciate some time to watch my son playing on his own and I no longer get the chance. Because with DCK it is always HIM HIM HIM HIM HIM any chance he gets. The only time he is quietly content with himself is when he is lining up toys, magnets, rocks, and anything that can be lined in rows. He also will not pay attention during story time if he cannot sit on my lap. Should I expect him to? Would you let him look at other books while you read one? Or would you let him wonder off to play with whatever he wants while story time is going on?
I keep reminders of the rules short and age appropriate, I do not to raise my voice unless there is danger (or I need to get someones attention), I am constant with discipline (1 minute time outs, ending with a reminder of the rule broken, kisses, and hugs), I mostly encourage instead of compliment, give them attention for the good so they do not purposely repeat the bad. I am constantly redirecting. I also try to focus on saying what they can do instead of what they cannot to. I am incredibly aware of how much time I am spending with each boy, so that one will not feel left out. In the end though, my son is my son, and no matter how much I love my DCK, I love my son most. This I cannot change.
I do not want to term. I love DCK. I love his family. But, I do worry that since my son is not as demanding as DCK, he gets pushed aside, and DCK ultimately gets all the attention. I also worry that my son is not getting adequate socialization because DCK does not really want much to do with him. I have even considered taking on another DCK to see if that evens anything out, and allows everybody to play with/alongside peers instead of me. I come from a background of attachment parenting, and mostly Montessori principles. I want to make the boys day as pleasant as possible, but lately I have been so annoyed that I worry they will begin to notice. After all, I am only human! My patience is wearing thin, and sometimes I find myself just closing my eyes and counting aloud to get myself in a playful mood again. Should I just accept all this as quirks, or would you be driven crazy as well? Anybody have any advice? I feel terrible.
He is a loving boy of 3 years, listens fairly well (I usually do have to ask him twice), does not have violent tendencies, is mostly soft spoken, follows our schedule well, always goes down for naps easily, and he comes from a very sweet and responsible family.
I suppose that the issue I am having is that I am not entirely aware of what is "normal/acceptable" behavior for a three year old. What should I accept, what should I change, what should I ignore? That being said, DCK is pinching a nerve.
The first two weeks I cared for him he was a dream. Independent, but good at working in groups. He followed instructions well, was gentle with toys, willingly included my son in activities, and was a pro at using the toilet on his own, while standing up.
The time since then has been interesting.
He stopped using the toilet (this has now been rectified). He insisted I go in with him every time he needed to go, refused to pee standing up and instead wanted to sit on the potty training seat. If I asked him to please use the toilet like a "big boy" (because I was changing a diaper, keeping a meal from burning, picking up the pieces of a broken toy) he would purposely urinate on his clothes (I caught him doing this SO MANY times).
He asks me what the same items are every day, multiple times a day. Everything I ever say is always followed by a "why" (Me: Please go potty so you can take a nap. DCK: Why? OR Me: Please put away the toys before starting another activity. DCK: Why??). He asks me to explain why I do anything (what are you dooooiiiing???????????), even something as basic as removing a sticker from the underside of my foot. As soon as snack/lunch begins he always asks if snack/lunch is over (over and over again), so that he can get down and play. He does not eat. Anything. Except junk food, which I DO NOT provide. DCK also tattles. On the cats, on my son, even my husband. All the time, about everything and anything. He spends the day telling the whole household what to do, and what not to do. If he is not asking why, or what are you doing, he is saying I don't want to. I can address my husband by name, and ask him if he wants pizza for dinner and DCK will respond with "I don't want to. MP I DON"T WANT TO DO THAAAAAT.". I don't want to go outside, I don't want to eat that thing, I don't want to take part in that actitivity...Even if I tell him I was not asking him, or that he has no option, he will continue telling me that he really does not want to do the thing.
If my son runs to me to be picked up, DCK body blocks and asks for me to pick him up as well. DCK follows my every step (if I move from the sink to the fridge he is right behind me). I set up activities every day to give each of them individual time with me. When it is my son's time for his individual activity (breastfeeding included) DCK finds every reason to interrupt, even when I ask him not to...multiple times.
He will no longer include my son in activities, and actively tells me he does not want my son to do x and/or y, because he only wants to do it with me. If I tell him my son has to be included because he is a group activity he POUTS, and WHINES, and tells me he does not want to do it anymore. We take turns with certain toys, and when DCK's turn is over I find him putting toys out of my son's reach so he cannot play with them. DCK has now broken multiple toys becaues he will throw them against the floor instead of handing them over when it is my son's turn. My son is not a pushover. After weeks of DCK exhibiting this behavior my son has begun hitting DCK, and forcefully removing toys from his hands. He has also began to put toys where he thinks DCK cannot reach.
My son can be a nightmare plenty of times. Lucky for me DCK is right there ready to repeat the behavior I just told my son not to do. If my son accidentally breaks a jumbo crayon and I tell him it is okay because accidents happen, DCK will purposely break a jumbo crayon (this applies to anything accidentally broken/spilled/dropped). Why? Whyyy do you do this to me????
I am a strong believer in free play, but I also create multiple daily activities/crafts, and follow a strict schedule. DCK does not understand free play. I never go longer than 30 seconds (please understand I am being literal. I wish I was exaggerating. I do.) without verbally interacting with DCK, unless I flat out ignore him (which I do). He needs constant validation (I got paint on my finger. I got paint on my finger. I got paint in my finger. HEY. LOOK. I GOT PAINT ON MY FINGER.) It is almost as he needs me to acknowledge every little thing that he does. I am not used to this. My son plays so well alone. He will tell me when he thinks something is amusing, or when he wants me to participate, but for the most part he is taking part in a big creative scene he himself is unfolding. DCK insists I play with him at all times, if I say I cannot (or flat out will not) he walks around the room aimlessly and pouts (or sits down and pouts). When I do play with him he spends the whole time mimicking what I do, and does not participate in creative play. I play with them A LOT. SO MUCH. But I would appreciate some time to watch my son playing on his own and I no longer get the chance. Because with DCK it is always HIM HIM HIM HIM HIM any chance he gets. The only time he is quietly content with himself is when he is lining up toys, magnets, rocks, and anything that can be lined in rows. He also will not pay attention during story time if he cannot sit on my lap. Should I expect him to? Would you let him look at other books while you read one? Or would you let him wonder off to play with whatever he wants while story time is going on?
I keep reminders of the rules short and age appropriate, I do not to raise my voice unless there is danger (or I need to get someones attention), I am constant with discipline (1 minute time outs, ending with a reminder of the rule broken, kisses, and hugs), I mostly encourage instead of compliment, give them attention for the good so they do not purposely repeat the bad. I am constantly redirecting. I also try to focus on saying what they can do instead of what they cannot to. I am incredibly aware of how much time I am spending with each boy, so that one will not feel left out. In the end though, my son is my son, and no matter how much I love my DCK, I love my son most. This I cannot change.
I do not want to term. I love DCK. I love his family. But, I do worry that since my son is not as demanding as DCK, he gets pushed aside, and DCK ultimately gets all the attention. I also worry that my son is not getting adequate socialization because DCK does not really want much to do with him. I have even considered taking on another DCK to see if that evens anything out, and allows everybody to play with/alongside peers instead of me. I come from a background of attachment parenting, and mostly Montessori principles. I want to make the boys day as pleasant as possible, but lately I have been so annoyed that I worry they will begin to notice. After all, I am only human! My patience is wearing thin, and sometimes I find myself just closing my eyes and counting aloud to get myself in a playful mood again. Should I just accept all this as quirks, or would you be driven crazy as well? Anybody have any advice? I feel terrible.
Michael 01:44 PM 01-13-2016
Wow, that's one heck of a first post. Welcome to the forum! 
ChelseaB 01:58 PM 01-13-2016
First, welcome!
Personally, I would probably feel the same a you. It can be very stressful. But honestly, while the behaviors themselves are one thing, the way that you've expressed that you feel about them speak louder than anything. I feel your frustration and annoyances, and I'm willing to bet that you are unintentionally relaying them. Of course, you are only human and we all have our moments!! My point is that I feel as though you have given this time and have attempted to work through it. With that being said, I don't believe he will change...maybe he will, but I don't think it happens often. Sometimes introducing more children can help certain situations. But the way he interacts with your son and you as you've explained leads me to believe he is possessive over you, which I don't think would relay well in a bigger group. In short, we don't always click with every child. If you can afford to term him, I probably would for sanity sake. However, he is 3, so you could also tough it out for a while longer until he goes to preschool -- your call! I mean, maybe you could talk to the parents and see if they have suggestions where you can work together on the issues, but we all know how that often goes!
Whatever you decide, good luck!!
Personally, I would probably feel the same a you. It can be very stressful. But honestly, while the behaviors themselves are one thing, the way that you've expressed that you feel about them speak louder than anything. I feel your frustration and annoyances, and I'm willing to bet that you are unintentionally relaying them. Of course, you are only human and we all have our moments!! My point is that I feel as though you have given this time and have attempted to work through it. With that being said, I don't believe he will change...maybe he will, but I don't think it happens often. Sometimes introducing more children can help certain situations. But the way he interacts with your son and you as you've explained leads me to believe he is possessive over you, which I don't think would relay well in a bigger group. In short, we don't always click with every child. If you can afford to term him, I probably would for sanity sake. However, he is 3, so you could also tough it out for a while longer until he goes to preschool -- your call! I mean, maybe you could talk to the parents and see if they have suggestions where you can work together on the issues, but we all know how that often goes!
Whatever you decide, good luck!!
Ariana 03:19 PM 01-13-2016
I have a child like this and she is 2 years old and doesn't talk much. The very best thing that I have done is to ignore her. I pretend to read things or I go on my ipad when I am in the playroom or I literally tell her to "go play". I have even gone so far as to go into another room and continually tell her to "go play" directing her back to the other room (because she follows me everywhere) I don't really care that she wanders around aimlessly because when a kid gets bored enough they will play. She has started playing in the past few weeks and she has been with me since September. She still follows me around but it is not nearly as bad as it used to be. I was just like you constantly bumping into her every time I moved.
I personally feel that these behavior stem from attachment issues with their parents and not knowing who is "boss". When a child feels that they have no one taking care of them it produces a lot of anxiety and when you have a lot of anxiety you can't be yourself. You are always on edge, always needing affirmations and adult interactions etc. In this DCF the child rules the roost. The spectacle at pickup time is outrageous. Child will not listen, hits her mom etc. What is this kid like with his family?
I personally feel that these behavior stem from attachment issues with their parents and not knowing who is "boss". When a child feels that they have no one taking care of them it produces a lot of anxiety and when you have a lot of anxiety you can't be yourself. You are always on edge, always needing affirmations and adult interactions etc. In this DCF the child rules the roost. The spectacle at pickup time is outrageous. Child will not listen, hits her mom etc. What is this kid like with his family?
mommaprovider 05:07 PM 01-13-2016
He is incredibly happy to see his mom, but he does not listen very well to her. He delays leaving the playroom as much as possible, sometimes stretching pick up time to an impressive 45mins. He wrecks the play room in an attempt to stick around because he has to "clean it all up". By that point I am so tired I just tell them I'll clean it all up myself. He needs to be told a thousand times to get his shoes, or to stop playing with the thing, and when Mom tells him to not run away because they are leaving, he runs away. I feel bad intervening, but lately I have had to pull the "Hey, Mommy said this..." just to get them out the door! I've only seen an interaction with the father once, and he has no siblings.
Crazy8 05:33 PM 01-13-2016
Originally Posted by mommaprovider:
He is incredibly happy to see his mom, but he does not listen very well to her. He delays leaving the playroom as much as possible, sometimes stretching pick up time to an impressive 45mins. He wrecks the play room in an attempt to stick around because he has to "clean it all up". By that point I am so tired I just tell them I'll clean it all up myself. He needs to be told a thousand times to get his shoes, or to stop playing with the thing, and when Mom tells him to not run away because they are leaving, he runs away. I feel bad intervening, but lately I have had to pull the "Hey, Mommy said this..." just to get them out the door! I've only seen an interaction with the father once, and he has no siblings.
This you can definitely put an end to - and you need to - NOW! Do they have a set pick up time every day? Have child ready 5 min. before that - or at least be putting his jacket on while mom is pulling in the driveway. First day explain to mom that since he hasn't been listening when its time to leave (and that he's severely cutting into your own time!!) that you are trying this approach. Mom walks in, give a quick update on his day and out the door they go.He is incredibly happy to see his mom, but he does not listen very well to her. He delays leaving the playroom as much as possible, sometimes stretching pick up time to an impressive 45mins. He wrecks the play room in an attempt to stick around because he has to "clean it all up". By that point I am so tired I just tell them I'll clean it all up myself. He needs to be told a thousand times to get his shoes, or to stop playing with the thing, and when Mom tells him to not run away because they are leaving, he runs away. I feel bad intervening, but lately I have had to pull the "Hey, Mommy said this..." just to get them out the door! I've only seen an interaction with the father once, and he has no siblings.
Ariana 05:43 PM 01-13-2016
Originally Posted by mommaprovider:
He is incredibly happy to see his mom, but he does not listen very well to her. He delays leaving the playroom as much as possible, sometimes stretching pick up time to an impressive 45mins. He wrecks the play room in an attempt to stick around because he has to "clean it all up". By that point I am so tired I just tell them I'll clean it all up myself. He needs to be told a thousand times to get his shoes, or to stop playing with the thing, and when Mom tells him to not run away because they are leaving, he runs away. I feel bad intervening, but lately I have had to pull the "Hey, Mommy said this..." just to get them out the door! I've only seen an interaction with the father once, and he has no siblings.
Yep! this is exactly to a T what my DCG is like. I am going to have her dressed to go starting tomorrow. I am so sick of the power struggles with mom and me having to intervene. This is a classic case of child is boss.He is incredibly happy to see his mom, but he does not listen very well to her. He delays leaving the playroom as much as possible, sometimes stretching pick up time to an impressive 45mins. He wrecks the play room in an attempt to stick around because he has to "clean it all up". By that point I am so tired I just tell them I'll clean it all up myself. He needs to be told a thousand times to get his shoes, or to stop playing with the thing, and when Mom tells him to not run away because they are leaving, he runs away. I feel bad intervening, but lately I have had to pull the "Hey, Mommy said this..." just to get them out the door! I've only seen an interaction with the father once, and he has no siblings.
spedmommy4 06:14 PM 01-13-2016
The tattling irritates me to no end. I had a transitional Kindergartener spend his Thanksgiving break with me and he tattled constantly. This started a horrible chain reaction and I suddenly had a room full of tiny tattlers.
I curbed it by talking about it in circle time. We talked about things you tell a teacher and things you can handle yourself. I gave clear examples. I reinforced the concept everyday. If a child told me someone stepped on their foot, I would say, "you can handle it. What do you tell him?" It took 3 weeks but it's pretty minimal now.
This little guy you have seems pretty extreme though. You described A LOT of challenging behavior that is not typical. If you decide to keep him, it will be a lot of work to eliminate them.
I curbed it by talking about it in circle time. We talked about things you tell a teacher and things you can handle yourself. I gave clear examples. I reinforced the concept everyday. If a child told me someone stepped on their foot, I would say, "you can handle it. What do you tell him?" It took 3 weeks but it's pretty minimal now.
This little guy you have seems pretty extreme though. You described A LOT of challenging behavior that is not typical. If you decide to keep him, it will be a lot of work to eliminate them.
daycare 06:24 PM 01-13-2016
welcome.
the only thing that I can think of is you just needing to say over and over.....
GO PLAY!!!!!
the only thing that I can think of is you just needing to say over and over.....
GO PLAY!!!!!
childcaremom 01:45 AM 01-14-2016
Originally Posted by spedmommy4:
The tattling irritates me to no end. I had a transitional Kindergartener spend his Thanksgiving break with me and he tattled constantly. This started a horrible chain reaction and I suddenly had a room full of tiny tattlers.
I curbed it by talking about it in circle time. We talked about things you tell a teacher and things you can handle yourself. I gave clear examples. I reinforced the concept everyday. If a child told me someone stepped on their foot, I would say, "you can handle it. What do you tell him?" It took 3 weeks but it's pretty minimal now.
This little guy you have seems pretty extreme though. You described A LOT of challenging behavior that is not typical. If you decide to keep him, it will be a lot of work to eliminate them.
I handle tattling much the same way. As they get older, I ask: Is someone in danger? Is someone hurt? Is there blood? Otherwise, not interested. I remind them it is my job to make sure everyone is safe and it is their job to play.The tattling irritates me to no end. I had a transitional Kindergartener spend his Thanksgiving break with me and he tattled constantly. This started a horrible chain reaction and I suddenly had a room full of tiny tattlers.
I curbed it by talking about it in circle time. We talked about things you tell a teacher and things you can handle yourself. I gave clear examples. I reinforced the concept everyday. If a child told me someone stepped on their foot, I would say, "you can handle it. What do you tell him?" It took 3 weeks but it's pretty minimal now.
This little guy you have seems pretty extreme though. You described A LOT of challenging behavior that is not typical. If you decide to keep him, it will be a lot of work to eliminate them.
Does he get a reaction when he is making his comments/asking his questions? I would address them once.
And I agree with Daycare, go play. On repeat. I started a 3 and said this quite often for a month. Now I hardly say it at all.
Is your weather nice? I would be taking them outside as much as possible. 3 year olds have TONS of energy. Let him run/jump/hop it off.
I have to agree with one of the pp, not all dcks are the right fit for our groups. Not every dck will respond to our disciplining techniques. I am willing to put in work with dcks but not if it takes away from the group, as a whole. I also put a time limit of when I expect to see improvements. So if I was going to implement a few new techniques with this child, I would put a star on the calendar for a month's time. At that point, I would reflect back and ask myself if it was getting better. If not, I would term. If it was, then I would ask myself if I was willing to continue forward.
I also refuse to work with a child if parents aren't on board. (I don't remember what was said about them, so not directly related to your post, just as an observation of my own)
As far as pick ups, I get children ready for the parents, meet them at the door, and adios until tomorrow.
BBurris1 07:02 AM 01-14-2016
This sounds so much like my 2 year old DCG! I will be terming as soon as I have someone to fill the slot. I can't handle her and her mother is inconsiderate and no help.
BdB 10:47 PM 04-22-2016
I have a gate at my front door which serves to keep my dogs in and the daycare parents out. I hand the child over the gate to the parents or the child walks through the gate. We chat a few minutes and they leave. I've been in business a very long time and learned early on not to let them in at pick up. The lack of boundaries between job and private time is tough. The gate has helped me to manage it.