I have a two year old DCB that has been in my care from 7:30 to 6:00 pm everyday since he was 6 weeks old. Dad brings him and Mom picks him up. Mom works 9:00 am to 5:30 pm. Dad just got a new job and they pleadingly asked me if I could open early, make an exception and take DCB at 6:30 am since Dad would be commuting this new long distance (leaves at 6:00 to drop of DCB at 6:15 am then to work, won't be home until 6:30 pm). I love their son, empathisized with them and their situation and made the adjustment the very next day. So for 2.5 weeks now, I have been getting up at 5:30 am (rather then 6:45 am) to accommodate this daycare family's new schedule . . . .not thinking much of it, as I understand that Dad's long commute is no picnic either.

That was until today . . . . after nap and our afternoon snack, (it was around 3:45 pm), I was walking the kids to the park when I saw Mom drive by. She stopped the car and happily greeted me, her son and the other daycare kids (through the car window). I was also happy to see her, as I always enjoy how upbeat and bubbly she is. We chatted a bit and then she said, "See you in a little bit" and continued to the end of the road (her home is about 12 doors down from mine. I assumed she got to come home early, was going home to change or (?). I was actually worried that she would be waiting at my door because we would not be back from the park until around 4:15 pm. I even made a big deal out of telling her son that Mommy was getting him early today.

Well, 4:15 came and went . . . wasn't I surprised when she arrived at 6:10 pm (ten minutes late) apologizing. I asked her what had happened and why she had some so late . . . she looked at me with a confused expression. She said, "I'm only 10 minutes late and the traffic was horrible!!" "Traffic?" I said, confused as well, and continued talking , "I saw you driving home at 3:45 pm?" (It was almost a question, as I thought maybe I had dreamt the whole deal at that point) Still she looked perplexed and like I was speaking a language other then english. Finally I said,"Didn't you come home early today?" FINALLY, ding ding . . .something clicked. I saw her expression change from confusion back to her joyful self. She laughed as she said, "No, no, (ha ha ha), I didn't come home early today, (haha ha) these are now my regular hours, didn't I tell you? She did not even wait for my response but now had her complete focus on her son as she exclaimed to him that "Mommy's here!" I just stood there, not sure if I had missed the boat on this or what had happened exactly when she looked up and said, "Since John (her husband) started this new job and is leaving at 6:00 am, I spoke to my boss and was able to change my hours from 7:00 to 3:30 pm." "Isn't that great?!" Then she proceeds to say enthusiastically and with a big smile that they have been "so in sync" these last 2.5 weeks and life is not nearly as bad as she thought it was going to be with DC Dad's new schedule.

I just stood there dumbfounded!!! So, I have been getting up at 5:30 am, so he (DCB) and ONLY HE could arrive at 6:15 am (the rest of the kids start coming at 7:30) and still I continue keeping him until 6:00 pm, feeling bad for the parents and their difficult schedule and finally, not charging them a penny more! Meanwhile, DC Mom has been getting home at 3:45 to 4:00 pm everyday the last 2.5 weeks, and has been home for two hours + before PROMPTLY arriving at 6:00 pm to pick up her son. After I regained the ability to speak, I asked her why if she was getting home at 4:00 pm, did she not come pick up DCB until 6:00 pm? She said this (with her usual exuberance which I was quickly beginning to dislike), "Since I have to get up sooo early in the morning, I absolutely need those couple of hours after work to decompress, you know what I mean?! (smile)." She continued," That personal time we give to ourselves makes us much better Mommies and Wives!!!" She actually winked at me after this statement. Decompress? Personal time? Did I know what she meant? I thought I was going to start crying. Then, I was just plain pissed to say the least. I thought to myself "Yes, you are a much better Mommy. For that 1 hour daily (6-7) you actually act like the Mommy and take care of your son!!!! (I know he goes to bed at 7:00 pm)

Is this unbelievable? I was so empathetic when they pleaded for that 1.5 hour earlier start time and adjusted my hours to suit them. So they told me about Dad's new schedule but conveniently left out Mom's?!!! The poor child is with me for 12 hours per day!! Do they even care about their sweet little boy, who anxiously waits by the door, (as he is last to be picked up) and always greets Mom with the biggest, most genuine smile. All the while he is being duped just like I am. I am almost in tears writing this . . . This little guy has been in my care since 6 weeks old and knows me better then his parents. I also feel like such a fool for being so gullible, readily doing anything to help them and not even thinking of myself, my inconvenience, or possibly charging them more! I don't think they have even noticed anything that I have done for them! DC Mom did not show the slightest hint of remorse or embarrassment! It was just business as usual.

Poor little guy . . . The Dad sees DCB for 20 minutes in the morning and the Mom sees him for an hour at night. WHY HAVE CHILDREN??? Ready for the kicker? They have been struggling to get pregnant with their second, have been on numerous fertility drugs and are undergoing their first IVF next week. DC Mom is always asking that I add them to my prayers. I DO NOT GET IT!!!! What should I do??? i have already committed to this new schedule and technically they did not lie . . . they just ommitted "a not so minor" detail. I love their child with all my heart, and feel sick thinking they will just throw him in any center that has long hours, if I decide to explain how this situation is not going to work and that they are being selfish and inconsiderate. But how can I not?? I feel SO TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF and like such a fool. This is really a mattter of principle. ADVICE PLEASE!!!

Is this an acceptable level of parenting to you?? What has happened to the family unit?? I think some parents think kids are just an add-on or accessory!! Where is the sacrifice in this DC Mom's life? Now I finally understand why she is so chipper everyday!!! She has no idea what she has and is missing! Selfish does not begin to describe her in my opinion.

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I'll refer you to one of my previous posts.

https://www.daycare.com/forum/showpo...5&postcount=35

Charge them more for the additional time - it's the only thing you can do. They are paying you to take care of their son and that's that.

Just think, they are going out of their way to concieve another child for YOU to raise. The Mom has her head in the clouds and doesn't know what she's missing. Yes, it is sad.

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You got got from the go.

Your first mistake was allowing the Dad to drop off in the mornings on the original schedule. If the Mom didn't go into work until nine and she has a fifteen minute drive then his drop off originally should have been 8:45 not 7:30 a.m.

You allowing an hour and a half of me time in the morning is what let her know how valuable her me time was. Once she saw that she was so much happier without him in the morning her next step would be to be so much happier without him in the evening too.

From what you are saying it looks like the need child care from 6:45 a.m. to 3:45 p.m. That will cut your day but nearly three hours of awake time with him.

I would just call her and tell her there was obviously a misunderstanding and that you don't provide services to parents while they are not working. Tell her that you need to adjust his hours of care to her work schedule as she is the last to go in and the first to get home.

Remember when they dramtically changed your total number of hours and didn't offer to increase you salary? That same mind set needs to be applied when you dramatically decrease their hours. It's no big deal to have so much more. It should be no big deal to have so much less.

Really consider not doing more than 9 hour days per family. It will save you a lot of grief in the future. These guys can easily do nine hour days so switch them to it.

Remember how sweet and bubbly she was when she told you she was enjoying her decompression time? Use that sweet and bubbly when you cut their hours to what they need. Do the same approach as it works so well for her. It's a language she does understand very well so speak it.

IMO, it's unethical to have a kid in child care twelve hours a day. Kids need AWAKE time with their parents every day. These guys can easily get five solid hours of awake time a day and they have put off three and a half of them on you for no additional fees.

Buckle up ladies because this is our future. Having parents be straight up front that they want and must have me time and that they are comfortable with a hour or so a day of time with their kid is becoming pretty socially acceptable. WE have to be the ones to say "no thanks". If you are going to do it make them PAY a LOT of money for it.

Do not EVER allow a parent to tack on extra time without extra pay. They added on a full days worth of awake time work per week to you and didn't have to spend a dime. Can you imagine what the Mom would have done if her job would have done that to her?

This wouldn't have happened in my world because I allow a nine hour day only and they pay an extra four dollars per hour for any hours used after three p.m.

The only way to make their me time less valuable is to charge so much money for it that keeping their money is more important than decompressing. As long as you do it for free you will have a significant number of parents who will keep their kid in care for as long as you will do it for free.

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I couldn't agree more with NannyDe. I would draw up a new contract and have it in hand on Monday morning with the new hours. 6:15 - 3:45.

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I agree with Nannyde.
In my state, we must report children to DHS who are in our care for 10 hours or more. I open at 7:30am and close at 5:30pm, which is 10 hours. I explain to parents in the very beginning that I will not extend my hours because of this law, and explain that if they drop their kid off at 7:30 and don't pick up until 5:30 on a regular basis, I am required to report them. So far, I haven't had to report anyone. My grandmother owned the daycare for 25 years before me, and she never had to report anyone.
I would DEFINITELY cut their hours back to mom's schedule. It's not fair to you, and it's not fair to the child.

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I thought the OP said Mom starts at 7:00. Works 7:00 - 3:30.

New hours should be 6:45 - 3:45, if mom needs 15 minutes commute time. Personally, because I've been in the position myself of having to be "in the office" ten minutes before the clock said start time, and often stuck for a few minutes after the clock said "quit time" (can't hang up on the Regional Director or someone like that) I would set their hours at 6:30 - 4:00. That gives mom the extra few minutes she might need.

Either way, the 6:00 pick up would be history and they would know how peeved I am.

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For this child's sake I think you NEED to either confront the parents about the length of time in care, or else if you don't want to confront simply make it your issue. Say that you need to shorten your hours and he needs to be picked up by X time daily. What time is your next to last child picked up? You can make that their latest pick-up time if you want, but I would think 4:15 should be the latest pick-up you allow since he is at your house at 6:15.

Or tell them you calculate your rates based on a 10 hour day. Since he is here an extra 10 hours per week they will need to pay an additional $40 per week (figuring care at $4/hour for overtime, I would more likely say $6-8) , whatever makes it worth it to you. (For me it definitely would not be, my family time is way more valuable than that).

I have a few kids that are in my care from 6:30-5:15 (my open hours) a few days a week, but I would not take a child whose parents wanted to do that every day. 10 hours a day is the MAX recommended for children in daycare.

All my dcparents want to be with their kids and try their best to make them a priority. Sure I know they've all taken a day of "me" time here or there, but not 2 hours every single day when they are only spending one hour of awake time with their child.

That disturbs me greatly that these parents are doing this to this poor child.

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I agree with this!!!

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Sadly, I know what I need to do but I am so conflicted over this. Really it is about the child . . . I am fortunate that my day care is full and I have two sets of parents waiting for spots so losing their business is not really a concern. The problem is I must come to terms with the fact that I am certain they will choose to move DCB to a center. Money is not an issue for them. They have always treated me well personally and financially. I have never had an issue with them paying and they themselves choose to pay the first of every month (I do not require this of anyone -weekly pay is my norm). On holidays and even my birthday they always give cash and it is usually at least one week pay ( with a heartfelt note which I really do believe is genuine). This is some of the reason I did not hesitate to accommodate them when they made this request to change scheduling. I have to add that I really do think that they are just clueless and the "new breed" of parent. In general, I think that they think they are doing the best and everything that they should be doing. The child is very well groomed, well dressed and they take care to provide very nutritious lunches and snacks (I wish I could say the same for the rest of my parents.). They seem to use their weekends for family time and seem to cherish their son when they are actually with him. Additionally, they are always asking me if the daycare needs anything, offering me toys, swings, pack and plays etc. and are the first ones to bring cupcakes if we are celebrating something or sometimes "just because". They actually considered a Nanny at one point and were very open discussing it with me, but ultimately decided that this was not a good move as DCB would be isolated and they know he is social, loves me and all his daycare buddies. Finally, not only do they live a comfortable mid-upper class two income lifestyle but the husband also comes from a lot of family money. Rumor has it is he is a trust fundy, they have no mortgage on an 800,000 home and that she chooses to work since she gets very depressed being stuck at home. I know that they are a comfortable type of person and that personal time is a must for them. Sorry for the lengthy posts but I am trying to convey why this is so horribly difficult. So there you have it, the only thing they do not have is another baby and that is in the works as I write. They will have no issue buying the extra time but I do have an issue with them not spending it with DCB and I will not be able to stand it. It will eat at me and slowly break down the relationship. Do I just suck it up and deal (with extra pay) or risk them taking DCB to a center if I am honest with my feelings about keeping a child 12 hours per day and(soon to be) policy regarding care during working hours (they are the first parents that I have had to deal with long hours with)? I think they would not mind the center atmosphere as long as they got the scheduling they wanted . . . Like I said before, "oblivious" is a good way to describe them. As long as things are no muss, no fuss, they smile, are thankful and don't make waves. What would you do?

By the way, in the past I did ask the DC Mom why Dad drops off in the morning and she shared with me that she has a very hard time attending to her son, while getting ready (showering, doing her hair) and she is required to pick up calls on her mobile early morning if need be.

I think reality is that their style of parenting is acceptable, like Nannyde said. I had no idea what I was in for when I went into this business, let me tell you! Never in a million years did I think a parent with a child in daycare wouldn't be speeding their way to pick him up so that they could get every precious moment with them. I thought the kids were going to be my problem lol!

One more thing: the nine hour thing - is that a general rule of thumb regarding in home daycares? Is it legal in Marykand to have your child in daycare for this long length?

Thank you all again.

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I guess the question then becomes, "Are you willing to work 12 hours a day for this family for the next 3-5+ years?" (Assuming they have another).

Maybe they would be better off with a nanny, then at least the child could be home more with the chance of some parent interaction. They sound like well meaning people, but selfish and clueless in regards to parenting.

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So, not to be harsh, but they are bribing you with cupcakes and bonuses to work an extra 12 hours per week with no extra pay, and DCM thinks nothing of bragging to you that she's getting this "me" time on your clock because she "gets up soooo early" (the same time as you) and "needs a couple of hours to decompress" (which you don't get because you're watching her child). She's complaining about not being able to get her hair done with ONE two year old in the house (and honestly, why couldn't he be sleeping if it's that early?) while you're doing EVERYTHING that you do during the day with multiple children around.

These people may be nice as pie, but they don't respect you. You said yourself, if you change hours on them they'll just pull the child and send him to a center, which means that NONE of their decisions are being made with you in mind AT ALL.

Honestly, I'd term them and fill the spot with someone who wants less hours. Think about how less stressed you'll be...and you'd get your extra sleep time back!

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You know I think it mostly has to do with the fact that you've had such a long repor with this family and you've grown to love and treat them as if there part of an extension of your family.. so it hurts or really frustrates you that they have taken advantage of you when you are doing everything you possible can to meet there needs. You put them first before your self and as daycare providers we do that for everyone. When a parent oversteps and disrespects it hurts. And not only that it just isn't right that your having to take on extra care when its unnecessary. That is why this upsets you bc you understand there isn't a call for it. It would be diff. if this family had a general emergency and it wouldn't be permanent. You have gone above and beyond the call of "daycare" in my option. I understand this as I have a little guy same age who I have had since he was 3 months. His family is an extension of mine and I would do anything for them...they haven't mistreated me in any way nor have they willing hurt me. But, they do overstep and that is when I explain to them that I understand there needs and wants..and I want to help as much as I am able but if it is affecting my other kids and families and they have found out I made an exception....that isn't fair...bc then I am labeling this child as a special child. Although all of them are unique and special to us. But I can't allow special favors special ones that I wouldn't allow for others. If it upsets you go with your gut feelings. Trust me in this I am dealing with a issue my self right now...quite diff. its posted on here. But you all have helped me move forward to do what is right really for all. DC, Parent, and Child. Good luck!!

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Poison comes in many tasty flavors.

If you REALLY think about it... does the Xmas bonus, cupcakes, donations, clean kid with nice lunch etc. even come CLOSE at years end to the amount of extra hours you are doing for free?

Figure out what their rate is divided by nine hours. Let's say you make four dollars an hour. Doing three extra hours a day of AWAKE time would be twelve dollars a day ........ sixty dollars a week...... THREE THOUSAND dollars a year.

Now with that in your mind... is all the "special" they do really so special. I don't know about you but I would rather have the money or the kid nine hours a day.

I'm not buying the "have to take phone calls" in the morning. It sounds to me like they can well afford to have the Mom have a job where she works eight hours a day instead of work eight hours a day and do phone time in the morning.

It sounds like to me that it's just easier to not have the kid home PERIOD.

One thing I learned years ago is that there is NOTHING a parent can do that is actually EASIER with their kid. No matter WHAT... it's ALWAYS easier to NOT have your kid in tow.

She's just putting words onto it that COULD relate to work. That way the poison doesn't taste so bad. I think you have been bewitched by these guys and you need to sit down and do the REAL math of their behavior.

They do NOT want to spend time with their kid awake. They don't like it. They want someone else to have the kid awake. No matter how many words they throw at you... in your heart you know it is true. You got a nice serving of it the other day when she gleefully said "howdy" to you and then didn't come get her kid and was even ten minutes late to boot.

Don't be fooled by the "I could have a Nanny" deal. People like this CAN afford a nanny BUT..... and this is a big BUT...... if they have a Nanny the kid will BE at their house during their "meclock" time. They want the kid out of the house completely so they don't have to deal with them AT ALL.

They could do a Center and most likely will do a Center if you tell them that you won't do twelve hour days. That's between them and Jesus. If you can afford to let them go I would. Doing twelve hour days is REDICULOUS and even more rediculous when you KNOW they have the resources to get his day down to where they can care for him for a significant amount of his awake time.

It makes me really sad that they are wanting ANOTHER kid. What part of "I don't like taking care of my kid" do they not GET? I have been seeing this trend over the last few years where I honestly believe there is a subsect of Moms out there who want another kid because they find out that the nine months they are pregnant and the birth/post birth time is such a HIGH attention getter for them that they want to have a baby JUST to have the attention of having a baby.

As soon as they get home with the kid and the attention goes from them to them giving the kid attention they want the kid somewhere else. They don't really LIKE the taking care of the kid. They honestly believe the weekend time is SO hard for them that they are really parenting and doing a super job if they can pull off two days a week.

It's pathetic.

I think child care training should include specific training about recognizing the signs of parental alienation and giving methods of dealing with this in your contracts and policies. We spend so much time training providers on "educating" kids and not a minute on something like this that is SO much more important to the kids life.

If the State isn't going to be the gatekeepr on total number of hours in care then WE have to be the ones to do it. We need to do it because IT IS best practice to NOT have a kid in your home ..... in your care ...... for more than nine... max ten hours per day. It's NOT good for the kids and I believe WE should refuse it. There's not enough money to get me to do the wrong thing. I won't even interview people like this.

Really THINK about whether or not you can morally do this. You may loose a client but you also may be the first person in her life that puts a flicker of remorse in her brain for what she is doing. Having a kid awake for an hour a day when you have the resources to have him home completely or in markedly reduced hours is just WRONG. Everyone else may be jealous of her or encourage her but that doesn't have to include you.

We need some PSA's hammering home the fundamental truth that children need AWAKE time with their parents EVERY day. They NEED to be P-A-R-E-N-T-E-D. No matter how great we are we are not their parents. The only way to learn how to be a parent and be good at it is to actually take care of your kid for a significant portion of their AWAKE time every day. There's no such thing as quality time. You CAN'T have quality time if you don't have quantity time.

My life experience tells me that a child needs five hours of awake time a day with a parent at the least. I look for clients that have five hours of awake time every day. All of my clients spend that amount of time every day. They know their own kid and they GET how hard I work every day because they know what it is like to take care of their kid. Every parent I have has breakfast at home with their child in the morning..... a REAL cooked breakfast and a sit down breakfast every day. They pick up early enough to spend time with their kid and they keep them up in the evening until about nine every night.

I respect them so much for making those choices for their kid.... and for picking me I can't work for people I don't respect. I have great parents and believe me... it's not an accident.

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I once worked with someone whose children were in childcare at least 50 hours per week. When I told her I planned to stay home with my child she said "I could never do that, I'd go nuts. I hate being home and not working."

I only stared in disbelief at her when I should have said "Then why have children?"

Nobody said it was going to be easy. Staying home with your children IS work as you all know. PARENTING is hard work as you all know.

These people are used to pressing the easy button.

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I am not trying to be harsh here, but I don't see the problem. You have 2 choices. Continue working way before your opening time and until 6 pm (or later), for a family that doesn't need the care OR tell them you won't do it anymore.

Personally, I think you need to look at what makes YOU happy. Does it make you happy to be getting up early when they don't need care? Does it make you happy to know the mom is 'decompressing' while you get to spend time with her child? If the answer is no, you need to tell them 9 hour days only.

If you can live with the fact you are working 3 hours every day for free don't say anything. If you are happy with this situation don't rock the boat.

If it were me, I would not be happy about the situation and I would be okay losing them as clients. As another poster posted they don't respect you. I don't work with people who don't respect me, because it makes ME unhappy.

As much as parents say that it is important to have 'happy mommies' I say it is important to have 'happy daycare providers', if I am not happy, this doesn't work for ANYBODY.

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I know a stay at home mom who put her oldest child in daycare months before the new baby came and now here after she just had her second baby.

She was getting pressure from her dh to get a job and hinted to me (HIGHLY) that she wanted to get pregnant in order to not go back to work. She ended up getting pregnant shortly after she said this and was relieved she didnt have to go to work. I had to cut off friendly ties with her because she was starting to use me as her anytime sitter when I had actual paying customers and my own DS to think about.

To me, she has children like they are a added fashion accessory. A new purse! Look at my shiny new necklace! She also loves to say how her husband was a numbers guy and afforded her to stay home with her kids when in fact she was sending her oldest to daycare too. People who want the credit for their child but spend no time with them dont sit right with me.

I learned real quick (about 5 months back to work) how much it sucked going back to work away from my son. Ive said it many times, it made me a horrible bitter person to be at work. My work suffered and my company lost a [once] good employee.

My DS though, he gained his mommy back. Dh and I live states away from any family and never have any help at all. When family visits I still have reserves about them tending to my child because hes still my responsibility. Im there for it all and thats all I ever wanted anyways.

Sometimes Im so skeptical as to why people have children. Why actively plan a child when all youre going to do is hand them off?

This makes me sad

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So they are on to me. Just got an email from DC Dad. It basically Thanks me again for the new schedule and then says that since March 1st is coming, he needs to know what the new weekly fee will be. He also adds that he will of course, add in the difference between the new and old fee for the last three weeks on to March's check. He also tells me again how wonderful I am that I did not even mention this to them when I honored their request for the new schedule. He also says that I do not need to hesitate when naming that price as they expect to pay at least what a center would charge, since "in his opinion" my daycare is "superior" to any center out there. So there you have it folks - either thursday's revelation with my learning the truth regarding his wife's work schedule prompted this or they have been reading this thread ( lol! Highly, highly unlikely)

First off, I really want to Thank you all for the advice you have given me. Nannyde, in your last post you said a lot of things that I have been thinking, but frankly, have been afraid and ashamed to say out loud. How could someone not want their 2 year old gorgeous, fun loving, child around them? I also think you are very correct about the Nanny situation. They have made comments before about being "private" people for me to buy into this but honestly, they have not displayed any character traits that I would associate with a " private" person (like detailing the specifics of their ongoing infertility struggle). Private people do not talk about running to have to get their sperm washed right after they drop of DCB!

The issue for me is that I simply think the child is with me too long and now that I know the truth about Mom's schedule 5:30 am is looking very ugly too me. Funny, that when I thought it was a necessity for them I did not think it was a big deal. I know if I continue this, no matter how hard I try, I will get bitter that I am essentially doing their job. It does not matter how much they will pay me, I am simply not comfortable caring for their child and waking at 5:30 am so dc mom gets her "decompression" in everyday. Again, this is a matter of principal.

I have also been fortunate to have lovely parents so far in the 5 years I have been in operation. Sure, I have had minor issues hear and there but I have never had a problem like this before. Another word that I was scared to use before is NEGLIGENCE. As in, these parents, when practicing what they consider to be parenting, borders on pure and simple negligence.

Unfortunately, I will have to disagree with Nannyde on one point Even though I will try and be direct and honest with them, I don't think it will sink in and they will simply find a center that will accommodate them. I wish I could make them see the light, but don't think theY are in any position to see it.

One more thing . . . I feel like such a horrible person choosing "principle" and throwing their kid in a center when I know how much he is loved by me and the other DC kids. No matter what, should he not come first? What sort of care could he get there? What I know about the specific centers in my city is not very great. The child already has crap parents and now the one person he has trusted and depended on since birth is about to dump him in a center?! This is going to be so hard on him . . . . Is this ethical of me? Everyday he is happy and practically glowing when he sees me in the morning. . . And always ends the day with a "remember I love you until tomorrow". Termination will hurt this child If it comes to that . . . . I feel like this is the ultimate betrayal on my part .

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that situation sounds a little fishy and annoying if it's that point blank.

i also think providers get caught up with "clock in and clock out" times at work as well.

i remember a post awhile back where someone just couldn't understand why a parent who worked night shift used daycare so she could sleep. well, i recently started working night shift (7pm - 7am) and i actually clock in around 6:35pm and today clocked out at 7:45am. i have an hour commute on top of that so it was about 9am when i got home. after taking a shower which is a MUST w my job (healthcare) - it was nearly 10am before i went to sleep and if i had to be back at work, i would've had to wake up at 4pm at the latest (which i've done the past 3 days), but i was off today. it just amazes me that someone would think it was crazy for someone working that sort of schedule to use daycare. i mean who would choose 6 hours of sleep before another 14 hour day over spending time with their precious child?! doesn't everyone want their loved one's healthcare provider caring for them after being awake for 48 hours? and i would DARE someone on top of that to ask me why i had children - just sayin.

OP - i know that's not YOUR situation, but i'm just saying in general i think providers sometimes get caught up in the times parents have to "clock in" and "clock out" and don't consider anything else that's involved like commute times or god forbid - sleep. there are stretches where i barely see my kids because i'm asleep while they're at school and i'm getting ready for work right when they're getting home, but there are also 3-4 days where i'm off and i don't work at all.

you're damned if you do and damned if you don't because if someone doesn't work and can't provide for their child(ren) then it's "why do people keep having kids they can't take care of?!" but when someone has kids and then they work so they CAN provide for them it's "why have kids if you don't get to spend time with them?!"

this might be the wrong forum for that little rant, but it just reminded me of things i've heard/read here in the past and hit home at the moment.

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Just thinking.....if he's such a "numbers guy," I hope he isn't taking your weekly fee and multiplying it by 4 to get the monthly rate!!! Then you'd be LOSING FOUR WEEKS OF PAY PER YEAR! It wouldn't surprise me if they are pulling that one on you, too. HUGS!!

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Good point. Has to be done by 4.3 or four fridays or five friday months.

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I think perhaps you just need to set a policy that you will watch children "X" amount of hours per day. Considering the fact that most parents will either live near or work near their Daycare provider, a 9 hour day should cover an 8 hour work day plus commute. Be firm about this and state that it is in the best interest of the children. I think this would be the easiest way to solve your problem but you must be consistant and this rule applies to all. Don't let them walk on you - you are not a doormat!

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the child has CRAP parents?

WHAT? i thought i read that you said they seemed to cherish their family time, gave you heartfelt notes of appreciation, sent good meals, etc, etc.

how does this child have CRAP parents? nine hours is NOT anything "crazy." i'd love to know who works a normal job (even if it's just 8 hours) that would not need to drop their child off 30 mins before "clock in" time and pick them up 30 mins. after "clock out" time for a total of 9 hours?

what i read just doesn't add up to "negligence" or "crap parents" to me - sorry.

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you said they seemed to cherish their family time

Yeah that's as long as there isn't much cherished family time.

Qual: they have this kid down to an hour a day of face time. The parents CAN do a nine hour day. They just DID a nine hour day last week and the provider ran into the Mom on her way home from her nine hour day. They live close to the provider. The Mom is SAYING she wants the kid away from her every day so she can have me time.

Nobody is saying that if a parent has twelve hour days that it's crappy of them to work it. If they have twelve hour days and only WORK three days a week then they would have two full days extra home per week with the child. If they work twelve hours every day then NO. I wouldn't be involved in that kids care.

Do you work twelve hour days five days a week?

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Actually, I believe the original post says that they have asked to leave their child in care from 6:15 a.m. to 6:00 p.m., close to twelve hours.

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I live so close to where my teachers work that all my dc children are here a maximum of 8 hours. Everyone is gone by 4:00.

OP:
1) I would let them know that you have a MAXIMUM of 10 hours per day policy. DC child needs picked up by 4:15 at the latest.
2) I would call the most expensive dc in town and make that amount be your new daily rate for this family... if your current rate for them is lower.
3) Have them sign a new contract.
4) I sense this family will abuse the new pick up time so include a very stiff late fee in the new contract.....and enforce it from day 1!

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I don't think it's healthy for anyone to work those hours, especially a Daycare provider, unless, of course you are Wonder Woman.

I realize that nurses do work 12 hour shifts, but they don't do it 5 days a week, it's usually 3-4. (Correct me if I'm wrong Nannyde)

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To the original poster: What time do all the rest of your children go home? I If it is close to 4:30 or 5:00, I would have that be your closing time. I would definitely increase rates because you deserve it in general, assuming you do a yearly contract. If you're re-writing your contract and/or policies I would make sure you give notice very soon. You could change it in general to only working hours plus commute time or only 9 hour days. I agree with a firm after-hours fee. $1 per minute with no flexibility or to be use at your descretion is good. Hope it all works out for you.

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well, that's not typical or feasible for most people as not everyone is a teacher. that wouldn't even be possible for teachers here as school starts at 8 and if the latest pick up time is 4 and there's an 8 hour max they wouldn't be dropping off until 8 - not possible. not to mention there are regular meetings after school (usually once every two weeks at a minimum) that last until 4 or 5.

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i don't work 5 days a week - i'm scheduled for 3 and work 4 if i can. that's irrelevant because my children aren't in daycare. there was a time when my daughter was in daycare for nearly 12 hours and i wasn't having "me time." i was working and going to school. i didn't LIKE it, but it was a means to an end which worked out well, was over quickly, and she doesn't remember it nor do i regret it.

bottom line is that this provider isn't going to be able to accept what this family wants. regardless of the fact that she thinks they are great bc they send good meals, give bonus pay for holidays and birthdays, send treats, and offer to give the daycare anything it may need - that's not worth the 2 hours of "me time" this mom uses each day. i doubt that raising the rates so they pay for those two hours would offer any consolation if all of the above doesn't. therefore, it sounds to me like she might just need to terminate.

this has been an ongoing debate here for as long as i can remember. i wonder if the providers who think it's insane for a parent to go to the gym or god forbid the grocery store without their child thinks parents who hire a provider or babysitter so they can have a "date night" are crap parents as well? this family is either going to pay extra to keep the schedule or find someone else who will care for him and accept the money for the time they care for the child without obsessing over what the parents are doing. the ball is in her court.

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What schools around you have school for over 7 1/2 hours a day? Every school in my area is 6 - 6 .5 hrs! Unless you are talking about a center or after-school care.

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schools here typically start at 8am and let out at 3pm so that's 7 hours - but teachers have to be there before the kids arrive obviously which was 7:30 when i worked so if a teacher had to be at school by 7:30 they would obviously have to drop their own child(ren) at daycare by 7 or 7:15 at the latest.

then school dismisses at 3, but the kids have to wait for the carpool line and/or the bus - so teachers rarely leave before 3:30 at the earliest and stay later than that typically, especially when there are meetings.

so even if a teacher had to work from 7:30 - 3:30, their own children would still be in care for 9 hours counting commute time.

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I currently teach public school. I am required to be there at 7:15 am and cannot leave until 3:45 pm, and that is only if every student has been picked up or has left on the bus. We also have weekly meetings every Monday from 4-5 pm. These are required.

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I'm surprised they are in for 7 hrs. . . our kids' school is 9-3:10 (early elementary). I misunderstood you. . . I realize teachers stay later & come early. I thought you meant the kids were physically there for 8 hrs :-)

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personally, I would keep this parent for as long as they would stay. This is a business, and you are getting a lot of perks from this business deal with the birthday gifts and toys and whatever else...plus now they will be paying you for the extra time so it isn't like you've extended your hours for free. There are a lot of parents who would want to leave their kids in daycare for 12 hours a day, for a lot less.

Does it suck getting up at 6, definately...but is it worth the extra income for your family? Thats what it would boil down to for me, not some moral objection to the amout if time mom and dad were spending with dcb, just because a child is physically with a parent doesn't mean the parent is engaging with the kid...your kid who stays in daycare for 12 hours could potentially be getting 100% more quality time with mom and dad than a kid who spends 7 hours...we don't know what goes on at THEIR house, and it isn't our business, our business is what goes on in OUR homes...and if you love dcb, and he is happy there, and you can handle the extra hours, and you need the extra money...i don't get what the problem is...minus an issue with the kid being away from mom and dad for so long

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OP, I understand how hard this must be for you. I can tell you care a great deal about this child. I'd have a difficult time terming as well, knowing that the kid could potentially be going to a not-so-great center. I'm going through something similar right now with a school-ager. But I won't get into it.

Are there any other in-home providers that you know and trust who would be more okay with the scenario that you could refer this family to? That way you KNOW that this child will be well taken care of and on top of that, you are less stressed and can be the great childcare provider that it sounds like you really are. This is really a moral issue and if it's something you can't get past (I'd have a hard time with it too), then it will start to show and the parents will probably pick up on this and leave on their own.

Something to think about!

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Well, it seems to me that they would have egg on their face to put the kid in a center after that. Tell them your concerns, and be upfront and honest. Let them know that raising a child while having decompression time is not a catch 22 that you throw money at. It won't end well. Tell them you have a couple of suggestions that will benefit the child, and may require sacrifice other than financial on their part. That may get through to them.

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I'm so sorry that this family is doing this to you. I know so many parents that do this to their provider or center, it blows my mind. I would give anything to be able to afford to be a stay at home mom or just to have more time. I've rearranged my personal chore schedule (laundry, grocery shopping, cleaning) to best accomodate spending more the most time with my child. Your story breaks my heart. As a customer, I drop my kid at the latest time and get him at the earliest I can - I never keep him at daycare when I'm home. Every day I have off work or get off early, I have him. I really think there should be more of a nation wide effort to educating parents about the importance of spending more time with their kids. Sorry, but most young kids aren't up as late as parents are. I have plenty of me time after my kid goes to sleep at night. I actually plan regular special events all the time for us as a family and events just for him and his dad, etc. I hate hearing about parents that don't want to spend time with their kids.

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I would put it past them that they have gotten wind of this thread. How else would his email respond to your EXACT concerns regarding the financial part of this?

Just let them know that you appreciate the offer but you don't want more pay - you want dcb picked up by X time. Period. I agree with pp that the new pickup time should be the same time that the last other daycare kid is picked up.

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My mouth dropped when the mom said those where her new hours. Charge them for the extra time. That is a long day. Write up a letter and present it to them. Thats just not right. If she was paying you for that time, that would be one thing but you got dooped! Let us know what happens!

Debbie

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Debbie,

You should register. That way you can post freely without having to be moderated.

https://www.daycare.com/forum/register.php

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My maximum time is 9 hrs. a day- this is 45 hrs. a week. I used to do 11 1/2 hrs. a day- UGHH!!!

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I agree 100%. This past week I was Very sick and closed one day and opened the rest of the week even through I was still very sick. All my kids and dc kids were sick too and sill attending. One day the DCM drops off sick child to me in her pjs and says she is taking the next couple of days off because she is sick. Hello I am sick too, my kids are sick and so is YOUR child. I was too sick to confront her but pissed that she kept him here for the 10 hours while SHE rested. Like I don't rest...or him.

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she was sick enough to call off of work. maybe she figured if you were too sick to work, you wouldn't be working either. sorry, but if you were so sick and all the kids were sick as well - it's on you for staying open.

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She didn't just drop off her kid, she dropped off her SICK kid.

I will agree with you on this...there are people aren't going to do the "right" thing by their provider or by their children unless they are FORCED to. If the kid was sick, send them packing. No doubt, you'll end up losing the client, but those are the clients its OK to lose.

Its just freakin' sad and depressing how many parents care primarily for themselves at the expense of everyone else, including their kids. In order to be OK with daycare we need to resolve ourselves to that fact and decide in advance what we can and cannot deal with, and then stick to it.

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right, her sick kid - but not too sick for daycare apparently even by the provider's standards. from the sound of it, she was sick and allowed a house full of sick children. it's true - parents will do what they can get away with - at the same time, "sick" can mean a runny nose and a cough whereas the parent may have been vomiting and/or unable to function - so of course she'd use daycare if it's ALLOWED.

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