there seems to be a lot of confusion about what CIO really is. Here is a good resource.


http://www.babycenter.com/0_the-ferb...tified_7755.bc

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Good article. This is pretty much the way I do things.

I had 4 children. The first one was almost the last!

My son was a fussy baby...but night time was DREADFUL. He would want to be rocked to sleep and then I would spend a LOOOOONG time gradually lowering him into the crib so as not to wake him...because the screaming would start all over again. He would sleep for an hour or so and then scream and we would do it all over again. Even when he WAS asleep, I would lie in bed and be scared to go to the bathroom because the tiniest noise would wake him.

When he was a year old, we decided we couldn't go on like this. I looked like I had cancer because I was pale and had huge black rings under my eyes from a year of just sleeping now and then. I was getting sick more often because my system was just shutting down.

Our doctor told me to put the baby in bed, say goodnight and walk out. Check on him after a while, but don't get him up.

The first night my husband had to literally hold me in the bed and I cried hard too.

It took about 4 nights...but the magic happened and our son was sleeping through the night for the first time in his life.

With the three babies after that...life was a dream. Bath, eat, snuggle and then put into bed wide awake. Usually no more than a few minutes crying and most often NO crying. They knew bedtime was bedtime. And we could talk, walk around the house, watch TV....nothing woke them up.

If I had not tried letting my first baby self-sooth at a year old, I would never have had any more children. I could see no end in sight with the night time struggle. I think my own health...both physically and mentally, would have given out.

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Meeko60 that was my experience as well. My daughter just wasn't a sleeper and having to wake up 8 times a night was brutal on my emotional and physical health. I started seeing things during the day and then I knew it was time for something to change. I am an attachment parent. I breastfed, carried my child and held her all the time, but then I lost myself. I began to realize that my own mental and physical health mattered too. We did the "Sleep Easy Solution" which is a loose version of Farber's method. She began sleeping well and I would wakeup to nurse her once a night. I began to live life again and I was physically able and mentally able to be a GOOD mom.

If there are people who wake up 8 times a night and are able to be "present" for their child the next day then kudos to you. But don't judge me until you've walked in my shoes. The guilt I felt over the whole "attachment parenting" malarky was clouding my judgment. My child and I both needed sleep. A funny thing happened when my child learned to self soothe. She began hitting her milestones and our relationship improved.

I also tried the "no cry sleep solution" first because people swore by it. I tried it and it made my child cry even worse. I felt like I was torturing her. You see my child wanted to fuss herself to sleep and the constant going in her room was disrupting that. I see it now because she's 2.5 and loves to sing and talk to herself in her bed alone before she falls asleep. I think she was doing this when she was a baby and I misread her cues thinking she needed me.

Bottom line is that every child is different.

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Sorry but I think all articles about CIO are not good articles.

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I'm interested in knowing why you feel this way. Would you please tell us why?

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Can open. Worms everywhere

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This the thinking I've always equated with "crying it out," not the "leave them alone to cry hysterically until they are literally vomiting" scenario.

I do think the very term "cry it out" carries a negative connotation for most people. I will go out on a limb and say that I don't believe there are many parents or providers who would really leave an infant alone in a room to scream themselves into hysterics. This just my opinion, however, as I do not have any empirical evidence to back it up.

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OK-not attacking....!!!!

can of worms, I know. My fault! But I love intelligent debate...

Your answer was a little vague. Did you read the article? If so, could you please elaborate exactly what troubles you. Again, not attacking. Just looking for insight!

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my fault!

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Don't worry about it. I think it's something we should talk about! Obviously we have VERY different opinions on here and the MAIN reason I come onto this forum is to gain knowledge and insight from others. So don't feel bad!

Personally, I used the CIO method with my son. Our pediatrician advised us to do it because at 10 months he hadn't EVER slept through the night. She said that for our mental health, it needed to be done. It just about killed me that first night, but the next night, he slept! For 8 hours!

He's 4 now and no scarring, no sleep issues. I personally do not see the harm in helping them learn to self sooth and I would like to hear from someone why they do not do it. And also, what do they do to help the child go to sleep while taking care of others. Not angry replies about how I'm abusing my baby, but calm and rational reasons for what they DO.

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I don't know why it has to be "a can of worms" Why can it not just be an adult discussion? Comments like this do not generate adult discussion, just animosity and arguing.

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My thoughts exactly!

I also agree with Zoe. Good educated discussions are the point of this forum. We need to talk about issues that are controversial. If we just duck and run every time a "difficult" subject comes up, then what do we or anyone else learn from it?

I have been doing childcare for almost 2 decades. I have worked in the field for 2/3 of my adult life. I have recently went back and completed school on the subject of early childhood and I still learn something new every single day. I have leared a lot just reading and sharing on this forum. I have learned from experiences I have never been in before.

I am open to learning and viewing every single perspective out there. I am an information gatherer. If I cannot have all the information possible, then how am I suppose to make educated choices in my life and business?

I say, let's open every can of worms we have! I say, let's rise above the pettiness of disagreeing and disrespectfulness and let us share like adults. Let's learn and talk and discuss and debate and GROW!!!

Let's stop expecting everyone to simply say "Oh yes, I agree!" and let's start getting into all those little nooks and crannys people are afraid to look in and let's learn!

When we know the right thing to do, this job is easy...when we know WHY it is the right thing to do, it makes us great providers!!

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One thing that sometime dissapoints me about formal education (finishing my degree too), is that there is a lot of theory, but not always a lot of practical information.

One reason I come here is because we can help each other with "this is what has worked for me". Practical solutions. Sometimes, they work for others, and sometimes, simply because of personalities or dyamics with each provider and their children, they dont.

My other reason is social. I need to visit with adults, especially other adults who understand how isolating this job can be, and how trying some days are. You all walk in similar shoes, and can empathize. It's a healthy way to vent, too. Keeps my kiddos from witnessing my ugly side!

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I knew nothing about cio when I had children. Well with the 3 and 4th we did the 10 min cry, check, cry, check but they would never fall asleep. What was very hard for us though was they shared rooms with siblings and kept the sibling up and scared that we were hurting the baby.

With number 4 we pretty much coslept because my body was simply exhausted from working and trying to function and not sleep at night. I actually was having issues with my mentality due to lack of sleep.

My first child it was brutal. Baby would nurse for 40 min than take a bottle 2 to 4 oz., then need changed and try to put back to bed. Baby would only sleep 1 hour or so and then the whole thing again. I was barely surviving. Doctor finally said no more bf, bottle only!!!! Well then I was shunned from the breastfeeding support group because of this, no one would help me figure out how to put her on a schedule because the all nursed on demand.

Experience of babies and sleeping for me isn't a good one. If I could go back and do it all over again you bet I would. I would soooooooooooo listen to the women who said "let the baby cry, its ok!"

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Well said. Who can argue with this? It's the reason I continue to view and read and occasionally even post on this forum. We are never too old, or too knowledgeable to learn something new. And I, for one, appreciate a good discussion.

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I wish that my youngest daughter believed in letting her babies cio. She is so sleep deprived after 6 years that it has taken a severe toll on her mentally and physically. She is in a constant state of exhaustion. She's been in several accidents due to her mental state. Her kids are 3 1/2 and 6, neither one sleeps through the night on a regular basis. Yet when they spend the night here, both sleep through the night.

Crying it out is not the same as letting an infant cry and scream until they vomit. You have to find a happy medium that works for you.

As a person who gets physically ill from hearing a baby cry, it's difficult, but it has to be done.

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It was a joke. Hence the face


Moving along now......

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At what age do you guys think its ok to let a baby stary to cio? I think newborns need to be coddled but after a few months then they can start to learn to self soothe or am i wrong?

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Ok, as long as I'm stepping on the worms...

I just wanted to say, I did CIO with my oldest, and he is now a perfectly healthy, normal, happy school ager. We have a very loving relationship and he's still a fantastic sleeper. As a matter of fact, one of his first sentences was "want to go night-night". I think that teaching a child to self soothe and to sleep on their own is better for them in the long run.

Whenever people say "I think that CIO has negative long term effects", I always wonder what kind of effects they mean.

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The Sleep Easy Solution says as long as the baby is 4 months AND 14 lbs they no longer need to eat during the night and can learn to self soothe.

I personally didn't feel comfortable until 8 months....that's kinda when I hit my wall.

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Like a PP mentioned, they need to be of an age and certain weight where they SHOULD be sleeping through the night. I'm sure that would apply for naps too. At least 4 months, but the youngest I've done is a 6 month old. And I didn't let them get so upset that they screamed or vomited. I checked on them every 5 minutes, then lengthened the time gradually.

I would still check on the child without them knowing just to make sure they were ok.

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I'm not a fan of any version of sleep training or CIO. I love Dr. Sears take on the matter. With my 4 (soon to be 5) kids we've never sleep trained. We co-slept and nursed on demand and they all learned to self soothe and go to sleep on there own somewhere between 12-24 months.

I don't cease being a nurturing and attentive parent just because the sun is down. I couldn't imagine ignoring my child for any length of time just to get them to sleep better.

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I'm glad it worked for you. But those of us who don't co-sleep etc don't "cease to be nurturing and attentive parents when the sun goes down". That's a pretty harsh statement.

I was getting seriously ill because I wasn't getting good sleep. I looked like I'd been punched in the face due to dark circles around my eyes. Twelve months of an hour here and there just isn't enough to stay healthy. My hair started falling out...I looked like I had cancer.
We didn't just ignore our son. We checked on him, talked to him etc.....but kept him in his crib. (He was 12 months old) Within a few days he was sleeping right through the night and was MUCH happier during the day too. And I was a better mother and wife because I wasn't worn out. For some of the time my husband was deployed (Air Force) and I was alone, which didn't help either.

I guess what I am trying say is that different strokes for different folks. You are not wrong at all to parent your children the way you do.

Nor was I. It's been 30 years now, but I still know I did what was right for my son and me. I wasn't being a good mother by being at his side 24/7. A few months longer and I would have snapped either physically or mentally or both.

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Not everyone is comfortable with CIO. But for those that are..me included. I believe it works. And I def. don't by in that it mentally and physically hurts a child by using it. And I don't at all feel that I'm a bad provider for using the CIO method. It works...I have used it with my children and with my first DCB and he's one that loves nap time...well ashually all but one love nap time. That particular boy that doesn't like to sleep is my part timer and has a dif. routine at home which allows him to sleep if he wants to and if not mom keeps him up so he'll go to bed at a good time. Normally bedtime is 11pm. Mom doesn't understand how I am able to get him to nap but he feels comfortable here sleeping its just the first 2 min that he whines for mom. Soft music and me checking in every 7min...he's out.

I now use it for my newest dcg..she's 5 mos and she sleeps through the night for mom is up most the day for me. If she is here early in the morning there are 2 naps if she is later in the day just 1. I won't force her to sleep I can read the signs pretty well. But I will let them cry it out for up to 7min and then go in to sooth and then walk right back out to repeat the process. It took almost 2 wks to get a routine and now she is great. She wakes up and is all smiles. As soon as I hear her wake up I am opening the door already talking to her and then when I get to her I cuddle and kiss and out of the room we go. Its been a great experience for me using it and I'll tell you what...I wouldn't use it if it wasn't successful. Who said anyway that you had to do it exactly from the book. I make it work for me by adjusting to my comfort zone.

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Thank you.

I cosleep with my babies for the first 6 months and then we gradually transition to a crib in my room. My own 15mo is still sleeping in a crib in my room. I extended breastfeed...nursing my toddler still and my 3yo weaned just a few short months ago. I wear my babies and try to be AP.

One thing I do believe in is teaching my children to sleep well. At about 9-12mo is when we 'sleep train' here with a modified CIO approach like Ferberizing. I am a firm believer that my children's quality of life improved drastically once they started sleeping better at night and nap.

Sleep is as crucial to development as nutrition but is given much less emphasis. Yes, a newborn and young baby needs to wake often to keep them safe, but I don't believe that to be so for toddlers+.

I also love the works of Dr Marc Weissbluth. I definitely take the advice of pediatric sleep experts over that of Dr Sears (as much as I love Dr Sears) because this is their specialty. Dr Weissbluth and Dr Ferber both have extensive histories heading up Pediatric Sleep Centers out of major hospitals and have both done mucho more research on the effects of infant sleep than Dr Sears. I trust their expert opinion and have seen the benefits work in my own home.

ETA: I have four children of my own and this is what works for us.

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One thing the article makes clear is that Dr. Ferber does not use the term "Cry it out".

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Update on my situation with new child who is 7 months today, been at a daycare before and the provider had 2 children. She held each of them the WHOLE time that they slept. Rocked and held. Mom and Dad have been letting him "cry it out" or as we call it self soothe, at home.
I am on day 5 of him being here. First day was a loud screaming crying, day two was crying and whimpering. Day 3 was a little whimpering. Day 4 he fussed, no tears. Today he laid down and fell asleep within minutes. No crying, whimpering, etc.

Did i let him cry it out? Maybe, but i call it "self soothe" and getting into my routine. Gotta be hard on little guy to be held all day at other daycare then at night parents let him self soothe, now new daycare he is here 9 hours a day 5 days a week, and have to self soothe here. I do know that last night and night before have been the easiest on mom and dad at home to get him to bed. Could it be because we are approaching this the same way and he IS self soothing just fine. ??

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I think thats wonderful for you!! If you felt rested and alert the next day then great!!

Would you have done the same thing if you were suffering from sleep deprivation which is a very serious affliction? What if you didn't feel safe to drive a car? What if you were zoning out during the day while your child was with you? What if you started seeing things that weren't there? How would you have handled it?

Everyone's body is different. You might take a sleeping pill and it knocks you out, I might take one and it does nothing. Your body might thrive on 4 hours of sleep and my body might not. Does this make me a bad parent because I chose my own health for the betterment of both myself and my daughters well being? Do you think that any parent likes to hear their child cry (for the record my DD hardly cried! the longest she fussed was 12 minutes!!)

This close mindedness is not the way a "nurturing" person conducts themselves in the reality of the world. If you truly are nurturing, isn't compassion in order. Perhaps understanding where your fellow moms are coming from and what lead to their choices? Hopefully you will model that for your child instead of preaching what you see as "right" vs. "wrong".

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Thanks Ariana. Very well put.

I was actually quite hurt by the "I don't cease being a nurturing and attentive parent just because the sun is down" comment.

The implication that you and I and any other exhausted mother is a non-nurturing and in-attentive one is offensive. And no...I am not "taking it the wrong way". It was a snide remark and was meant to be as self-righteous as it sounds.

A baby isn't going to die because it's allowed to cry for 15 minutes. But very sadly...babies DO die when their parents reach exhaustion point. Being terribly tired is like being drunk. Judgement is not good. I could feel myself falling apart more and more as the months went by. My husband was deployed. My family were on the other side of the world and I had nobody to call at 3AM in the morning as I sobbed my eyes out and literally begged my son to go to sleep. I drove around in that state with my son in the car! It makes me shudder now.

I wasn't being a nurturing and attentive parent simply because I was with him 24/7!!!! My tiredness actually put both his life and mine in danger!

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For a newbie you are kind of judgemental. To be a better parent you have to sleep. To be a safe parent, safe driver, etc, you NEED sleep. I had a ds who slept NO MORE than 3 hours a night for almost 2 years. I have never recovered, and he is 10. I feel like I lost sooooooooo many brain cells from that time. It isn't always selfish. Sometimes it is merely so you can function so that you may care for your other children. I didn't cease to be nurturing of attentive just because the sun was down, I did my children a favor and TAUGHT them how to self sooth. It isn't ignoring. I cried at the door along with him. He refused to cosleep. I tried EVERYTHING. So don't judge.

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That comment wasn't directed at anyone. I didn't mean for it to come off as mean or judgmental. I was talking more about the way I parent during the day (attachment style) continues into the night. My parenting doesn't go from nurture, hold, babywear, respond immediately to suns down and your on your own, I'll come in every 15 minutes and pat you but thats it. To me the two don't go together.

I had severe PPD after my daughter was born, and my husband was deployed. I think the fact that I never just let her cry is what saved our relationship. It would have been very easy for me to just put her down and walk away, because thats what I wanted to do. I couldn't though. After 6 months I woke up and we are incredibly bonded to this day. I really think had I not attended her night and day it would have affected us.

I have a connective tissue disorder that makes it more difficult to move if I don't get sleep, but I still am not a fan of CIO. I just can't wrap my head around it. I'm sorry if I offended anyone, I used a poor choice of words but it wasn't my intention to direct them at you. It was directed at me, and my style of parenting.

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When a mother isn't sleeping, is getting ill, and possibly seeing things that aren't there, the risks to the child is far greater. Mom could be depressed, slow reactions, or pushed right over the edge. Lets face it, not every husband is there to help with crying kids, poopy diapers, vomiting, feedings, etc. I know mine wasn't. I went through depression because of lack of sleep, I couldn't eat properly because I was so exhausted I didn't even have the energy to cook.
And it was affecting my older children as well. Mommy was too tired to play with them, too sick to take them outside or to the park.

CIO isn't for everyone. But when you have a child who has never self soothed themselves because mommy goes running everytime they make a whimper, that child is in for a rude awakening when they go to daycare, preschool or school.

When I knew my babies were old enough to make it through the night without a feeding, I would go in quietly, make sure nothing was wrong without them knowing, and then i'd let them cry. 2 days and they slept through the night. Then when they did cry, I KNEW something was wrong.

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I have to wonder if the ignoring kids while crying is what causes adults to have issues with displaying emotions? I've seen studies that have suggested as much, and it makes sense. To tell a baby that their crying isn't important enough to be dealt with is setting that person up to believe that their emotions are not valued.

All my AP friends have very independent children. Studies have also shown that kids are MORE independent when the AP style is used and crying is attended to night and day. Security fosters independence. Sure, my 18 month old might still be crying at night and waking while yours sleep, but by 4 our kids are both sleeping through the night and doing it on their own. It took mine longer to get there but they DID get there when THEY were ready.

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What I find funny is the amount of problems children have now compared to when I was growing up. Children born from the 90's on seem to have soooooo many struggles. This seems to be about the time all parenting styles changed-no spankings, let the children be the parent, little Johnny has feelings don't let him cry, parents should be friends not parents, etc.

When is this maddness going to stop and we become parents again! If a child needs to cry for a little bit because mom needs a break or the child just needs to go to sleep its fine. I'm not talking full blown screaming for hours but if its just a mad cry and everything is fine the child needs to learn that its time for sleep and move on.

I fear for when I'm older and this generation of children are running the world. Everyone will have something wrong with them, there will be noooo boundaries, if things don't go their way what are they going to do, imagine the crime rate!

I know we all parent different which is fine. Our goal is to raise healthy, well behaved children, that can grow up into well adjusted functioning adults. Arguing over the forum doesn't solve anything, being insinctint that one way is the only way reminds me of a bitty old woman that is very grouchy and no one likes to be around. Please throw ideas out there but lets not judge each other and tell others that they feel is totally wrong.

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