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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Need Some Thoughts On This, Redirecton
daycare 07:30 AM 05-14-2012
I am all about redirection and positive reinforcement.
I have a child that is 3.5 and full of energy. One of the major issues that I deal with daily is that the child does not listen..Ok normal and typical for a child this age. I always try redirection first. But it always results in the child having to go to a thinking mat.
Example: The kid is being destructive with the books.... I tell them hey johnny, books are for reading, why don't you show me how well you can read? Then the books get ripped up. NOw that I know this, this child cannot use books without my direct supervision.
So It go to the point where I needed to talk to mom and dad about it. The DCM said that she does not believe in timeout and that the only method the childs mom uses is redirection. Our conversation was brief.
I have not had a chance to talk to the mom in full detail and am not really too sure what I should say.
At what age or what point do you think that a child does not only need redirection, but also needs to learn that there will be consequences for their actions, should they not listen?
Thank you for your thoughts on this in advance..
I have a child that is 3.5 and full of energy. One of the major issues that I deal with daily is that the child does not listen..Ok normal and typical for a child this age. I always try redirection first. But it always results in the child having to go to a thinking mat.
Example: The kid is being destructive with the books.... I tell them hey johnny, books are for reading, why don't you show me how well you can read? Then the books get ripped up. NOw that I know this, this child cannot use books without my direct supervision.
So It go to the point where I needed to talk to mom and dad about it. The DCM said that she does not believe in timeout and that the only method the childs mom uses is redirection. Our conversation was brief.
I have not had a chance to talk to the mom in full detail and am not really too sure what I should say.
At what age or what point do you think that a child does not only need redirection, but also needs to learn that there will be consequences for their actions, should they not listen?
Thank you for your thoughts on this in advance..
Christian Mother 09:37 AM 05-14-2012
I think it's about finding out how the parents deal with his behavior at home. What works for them.
I like that you have the "Thinking Mat" established!! I think time out and sitting out or "Thinking Mat" basically are the same thing. Just diff. names..kwim..?
Have you talked about having the parents reimburse you for the books their son tore up? Do you have something in your phb that states parents are responsible for broken toys etc.? I'd put them in a zip lock bag and show them at pick up and let them know they will need to reimburse you for them.
Just some ideals...
I like that you have the "Thinking Mat" established!! I think time out and sitting out or "Thinking Mat" basically are the same thing. Just diff. names..kwim..?
Have you talked about having the parents reimburse you for the books their son tore up? Do you have something in your phb that states parents are responsible for broken toys etc.? I'd put them in a zip lock bag and show them at pick up and let them know they will need to reimburse you for them.
Just some ideals...
christinaskids 09:46 AM 05-14-2012
3.5 is old enough to start learning to take care of stuff imo. I would not let him play with toys or books if he did that at my house. "Its incredibly disappointing to not be able to play with the books but you are runing them and we wont have anymore left so i cant allow you to play with my books for a while, sorry." He is way to old to just be redirected, there really is no consequence for his behavior.
cheerfuldom 10:03 AM 05-14-2012
you already know that the parents don't adequately address the behavior. redirection is not appropriate for a 3.5 year old that is destructive and constantly doing the same bad behavior over and over. To me, redirecting only with no consequence is for babies or very young toddlers. At this point, they are not using redirection as a consequence, they are just using it as a momentary distraction for him and excuse for them not to have to do the hard work of disciplining/teaching/training. I have a guidance policy that is handed out with my contract. After that, I do not consult with parents about how to deal with bad behavior. They know how I do it here and opening up the discussion usually tells them that 1. you don't know how to do your job and 2. you will be open to suggestion or demands on how THEY want it done at your daycare. If I really couldnt handle an older childs behavior or they were consistently disruptive and destructive, I would just let them go with the assumption that my program was not the right fit for them.
The important thing to think about is.....do you REALLY think that a discussion at this point would be productive? Are they open to the back and forth of coming up with a solution? OR will it just become a source of confrontation and hard feelings if they take the discussion as a complaint against their parenting or their child?
My main point being that I only discuss issues with parents if the parents are willing or able to come up with a reasonable solution. Many times, they are not and it is up to me to decide if I can deal with this on my own or if I should just go ahead and replace the wild child. On a side note, I have never replaced a wild child because we get is solved here.
The important thing to think about is.....do you REALLY think that a discussion at this point would be productive? Are they open to the back and forth of coming up with a solution? OR will it just become a source of confrontation and hard feelings if they take the discussion as a complaint against their parenting or their child?
My main point being that I only discuss issues with parents if the parents are willing or able to come up with a reasonable solution. Many times, they are not and it is up to me to decide if I can deal with this on my own or if I should just go ahead and replace the wild child. On a side note, I have never replaced a wild child because we get is solved here.
daycare 10:22 AM 05-14-2012
Originally Posted by cheerfuldom:
you already know that the parents don't adequately address the behavior. redirection is not appropriate for a 3.5 year old that is destructive and constantly doing the same bad behavior over and over. To me, redirecting only with no consequence is for babies or very young toddlers. At this point, they are not using redirection as a consequence, they are just using it as a momentary distraction for him and excuse for them not to have to do the hard work of disciplining/teaching/training. I have a guidance policy that is handed out with my contract. After that, I do not consult with parents about how to deal with bad behavior. They know how I do it here and opening up the discussion usually tells them that 1. you don't know how to do your job and 2. you will be open to suggestion or demands on how THEY want it done at your daycare. If I really couldnt handle an older childs behavior or they were consistently disruptive and destructive, I would just let them go with the assumption that my program was not the right fit for them.
The important thing to think about is.....do you REALLY think that a discussion at this point would be productive? Are they open to the back and forth of coming up with a solution? OR will it just become a source of confrontation and hard feelings if they take the discussion as a complaint against their parenting or their child?
My main point being that I only discuss issues with parents if the parents are willing or able to come up with a reasonable solution. Many times, they are not and it is up to me to decide if I can deal with this on my own or if I should just go ahead and replace the wild child. On a side note, I have never replaced a wild child because we get is solved here.
THis is exactly it....I feel that redirection is not appropriate for a 3.5 year old and need to tell the DCM this. The family has the best of intentions and is always open to what I have to say. We have met in the past on other subjects and we were able to resolve the matters by working together.you already know that the parents don't adequately address the behavior. redirection is not appropriate for a 3.5 year old that is destructive and constantly doing the same bad behavior over and over. To me, redirecting only with no consequence is for babies or very young toddlers. At this point, they are not using redirection as a consequence, they are just using it as a momentary distraction for him and excuse for them not to have to do the hard work of disciplining/teaching/training. I have a guidance policy that is handed out with my contract. After that, I do not consult with parents about how to deal with bad behavior. They know how I do it here and opening up the discussion usually tells them that 1. you don't know how to do your job and 2. you will be open to suggestion or demands on how THEY want it done at your daycare. If I really couldnt handle an older childs behavior or they were consistently disruptive and destructive, I would just let them go with the assumption that my program was not the right fit for them.
The important thing to think about is.....do you REALLY think that a discussion at this point would be productive? Are they open to the back and forth of coming up with a solution? OR will it just become a source of confrontation and hard feelings if they take the discussion as a complaint against their parenting or their child?
My main point being that I only discuss issues with parents if the parents are willing or able to come up with a reasonable solution. Many times, they are not and it is up to me to decide if I can deal with this on my own or if I should just go ahead and replace the wild child. On a side note, I have never replaced a wild child because we get is solved here.
I am glad that I am not the only one who thinks that it is not appropriate for a 3.5 year old to only have redirection. He needs to learn that there are consequences for his actions.
The child is very sweet and loving, but because there is no consequences at home to his actions, he does not understand when I do implement them here. Does that make sense?
Heidi 10:40 AM 05-14-2012
Originally Posted by daycare:
THis is exactly it....I feel that redirection is not appropriate for a 3.5 year old and need to tell the DCM this. The family has the best of intentions and is always open to what I have to say. We have met in the past on other subjects and we were able to resolve the matters by working together.
I am glad that I am not the only one who thinks that it is not appropriate for a 3.5 year old to only have redirection. He needs to learn that there are consequences for his actions.
The child is very sweet and loving, but because there is no consequences at home to his actions, he does not understand when I do implement them here. Does that make sense?
exactly!THis is exactly it....I feel that redirection is not appropriate for a 3.5 year old and need to tell the DCM this. The family has the best of intentions and is always open to what I have to say. We have met in the past on other subjects and we were able to resolve the matters by working together.
I am glad that I am not the only one who thinks that it is not appropriate for a 3.5 year old to only have redirection. He needs to learn that there are consequences for his actions.
The child is very sweet and loving, but because there is no consequences at home to his actions, he does not understand when I do implement them here. Does that make sense?
You are also helping him get socially ready for school. At school, poor behavior does have (often punitive) consequences.
One of my dc families also uses primarily redirection (which I like to call "smoke and mirrors"), for their 3.5 and 5 year old. Guess what, it doesn't work. The attention span of a toddler makes redirection work because they don't remember 5 minutes later what they were doing. A 3+ year old, however, can tell you what they did yesterday (not always accurately). So, "redirection" really doesn't work. A few minutes to sit down and think about it reinforces what you said. It doesn't have to be a huge ordeal, just a break from the action.
daycare 10:42 AM 05-14-2012
Originally Posted by Heidi:
exactly!
You are also helping him get socially ready for school. At school, poor behavior does have (often punitive) consequences.
One of my dc families also uses primarily redirection (which I like to call "smoke and mirrors"), for their 3.5 and 5 year old. Guess what, it doesn't work. The attention span of a toddler makes redirection work because they don't remember 5 minutes later what they were doing. A 3+ year old, however, can tell you what they did yesterday (not always accurately). So, "redirection" really doesn't work. A few minutes to sit down and think about it reinforces what you said. It doesn't have to be a huge ordeal, just a break from the action.
what do you mean by smoke and mirrors? that sounds interesting.... do you mind explaining that for me?? I'm slow....lolexactly!
You are also helping him get socially ready for school. At school, poor behavior does have (often punitive) consequences.
One of my dc families also uses primarily redirection (which I like to call "smoke and mirrors"), for their 3.5 and 5 year old. Guess what, it doesn't work. The attention span of a toddler makes redirection work because they don't remember 5 minutes later what they were doing. A 3+ year old, however, can tell you what they did yesterday (not always accurately). So, "redirection" really doesn't work. A few minutes to sit down and think about it reinforces what you said. It doesn't have to be a huge ordeal, just a break from the action.
Heidi 10:49 AM 05-14-2012
Originally Posted by daycare:
what do you mean by smoke and mirrors? that sounds interesting.... do you mind explaining that for me?? I'm slow....lol
smoke and mirrors is like an old magic show. There's no real magic, they just use "smoke and mirrors" to make it SEEM magical. what do you mean by smoke and mirrors? that sounds interesting.... do you mind explaining that for me?? I'm slow....lol
Redirection is a little like that. Kiddo plays with tv remote, adult says "hey..look over here at this neat truck..." smoke and mirrors....it's not really that simple...but it strikes me as similar
daycare 10:57 AM 05-14-2012
Originally Posted by Heidi:
smoke and mirrors is like an old magic show. There's no real magic, they just use "smoke and mirrors" to make it SEEM magical.
Redirection is a little like that. Kiddo plays with tv remote, adult says "hey..look over here at this neat truck..." smoke and mirrors....it's not really that simple...but it strikes me as similar
aweee got it!! lol thank you so much for explaining that to me.smoke and mirrors is like an old magic show. There's no real magic, they just use "smoke and mirrors" to make it SEEM magical.
Redirection is a little like that. Kiddo plays with tv remote, adult says "hey..look over here at this neat truck..." smoke and mirrors....it's not really that simple...but it strikes me as similar
makes a ton of sense.............
MarinaVanessa 11:01 AM 05-14-2012
Originally Posted by daycare:
The child is very sweet and loving, but because there is no consequences at home to his actions, he does not understand when I do implement them here. Does that make sense?
I think that you're doing a great job at trying to work with him and you're absolutely right that the child needs to learn that there are consequesnses to his actions. I know that you already said that he needs supervision when he uses the books and I think that you're on the right track already. That's a consequence right there and I do believe that kids figure out that different rules apply here than they do at daycare, they're kids though so they'll need to be reminded about following the rules and using supplies properly on a regular basis.The child is very sweet and loving, but because there is no consequences at home to his actions, he does not understand when I do implement them here. Does that make sense?
I use when/then statements followed by if/when statements. It helps with my DD (ADHD) but it really helps me with the rest of the kids too. And like everything else you have to be consistent. Maybe you can go over your rules again with all of the kids and re-teach them about how to use the toys/books properly. Be clear with them that if they misuse things that they cannot play with them.
"Little Johnny, when you are rough with the books they rip. If you rip a book then you will not be able to read books by yourself", then just stick with it.
Don't let him read the books on his own for a week and try again the following week and see how it goes. The longer he can use the books without mistreating them the shorter the "wait list" to use them again is. Good luck with this
itlw8 11:12 AM 05-14-2012
I do not think redirection done correctly is bait and switch.
It is teaching a child what they should do instead. Punishment is not needed to think about it.
Tell the child to stop and explain what they are doing wrong.
help the child come up with a better solution if the child can not help the child come up with the solution....
You may not rip the books, you look angry. What can you do instead.................................................. make sure you wait wait wait.
may I give you a suggestion? The box of silk scarves feels good or maybe the playdough would those help calm down.
Redirection is supposed to be helping the child find a better solution not giving them a treat to stop a bad behavior.
and yes I use time outs I just keep them as the ultimate solution.
It is teaching a child what they should do instead. Punishment is not needed to think about it.
Tell the child to stop and explain what they are doing wrong.
help the child come up with a better solution if the child can not help the child come up with the solution....
You may not rip the books, you look angry. What can you do instead.................................................. make sure you wait wait wait.
may I give you a suggestion? The box of silk scarves feels good or maybe the playdough would those help calm down.
Redirection is supposed to be helping the child find a better solution not giving them a treat to stop a bad behavior.
and yes I use time outs I just keep them as the ultimate solution.
daycare 11:26 AM 05-14-2012
Originally Posted by itlw8:
I do not redirection done correctly is bait and switch.
It is teaching a child what they should do instead. Punishment is not needed to think about it.
Tell the child to stop and explain what they are doing wrong.
help the child come up with a better solution if the child can not help the child come up with the solution....
You may not rip the books, you look angry. What can you do instead.................................................. make sure you wait wait wait.
may I give you a suggestion? The box of silk scarves feels good or maybe the playdough would those help calm down.
Redirection is supposed to be helping the child find a better solution not giving them a treat to stop a bad behavior.
and yes I use time outs I just keep them as the ultimate solution.
Sorry I had a hard time understanding what you mean...????I do not redirection done correctly is bait and switch.
It is teaching a child what they should do instead. Punishment is not needed to think about it.
Tell the child to stop and explain what they are doing wrong.
help the child come up with a better solution if the child can not help the child come up with the solution....
You may not rip the books, you look angry. What can you do instead.................................................. make sure you wait wait wait.
may I give you a suggestion? The box of silk scarves feels good or maybe the playdough would those help calm down.
Redirection is supposed to be helping the child find a better solution not giving them a treat to stop a bad behavior.
and yes I use time outs I just keep them as the ultimate solution.
EntropyControlSpecialist 11:42 AM 05-14-2012
The topic of redirection makes me twitchy. Not that redirection done CORRECTLY makes me twitchy, but redirection for EVERY child (no matter what age they are) does.
Our society has become big fans of redirection. Has anybody else noticed this?
You are handling it great. Don't know that I'd want to discuss it more with Mom since she's already said she isn't a fan of time out ...
Our society has become big fans of redirection. Has anybody else noticed this?
You are handling it great. Don't know that I'd want to discuss it more with Mom since she's already said she isn't a fan of time out ...
cheerfuldom 12:19 PM 05-14-2012
Originally Posted by daycare:
THis is exactly it....I feel that redirection is not appropriate for a 3.5 year old and need to tell the DCM this. The family has the best of intentions and is always open to what I have to say. We have met in the past on other subjects and we were able to resolve the matters by working together.
I am glad that I am not the only one who thinks that it is not appropriate for a 3.5 year old to only have redirection. He needs to learn that there are consequences for his actions.
The child is very sweet and loving, but because there is no consequences at home to his actions, he does not understand when I do implement them here. Does that make sense?
I think 3.5 years old is more than old enough to understand the rules at daycare, even if they are different than at home. If he is not learning the lesson that you are trying to teach, than perhaps a more significant consequence is needed or a different approach. Saying that he doesn't understand at this age is probably not true unless there is some sort of delay or special needs that you are working with. At his age, "do not rip books" is not outside of his understanding capabilities.THis is exactly it....I feel that redirection is not appropriate for a 3.5 year old and need to tell the DCM this. The family has the best of intentions and is always open to what I have to say. We have met in the past on other subjects and we were able to resolve the matters by working together.
I am glad that I am not the only one who thinks that it is not appropriate for a 3.5 year old to only have redirection. He needs to learn that there are consequences for his actions.
The child is very sweet and loving, but because there is no consequences at home to his actions, he does not understand when I do implement them here. Does that make sense?
cheerfuldom 12:20 PM 05-14-2012
Originally Posted by itlw8:
I do not redirection done correctly is bait and switch.
It is teaching a child what they should do instead. Punishment is not needed to think about it.
Tell the child to stop and explain what they are doing wrong.
help the child come up with a better solution if the child can not help the child come up with the solution....
You may not rip the books, you look angry. What can you do instead.................................................. make sure you wait wait wait.
may I give you a suggestion? The box of silk scarves feels good or maybe the playdough would those help calm down.
Redirection is supposed to be helping the child find a better solution not giving them a treat to stop a bad behavior.
and yes I use time outs I just keep them as the ultimate solution.
I think that what the poster is trying to say is that redirection ALONE will not solve the problem.I do not redirection done correctly is bait and switch.
It is teaching a child what they should do instead. Punishment is not needed to think about it.
Tell the child to stop and explain what they are doing wrong.
help the child come up with a better solution if the child can not help the child come up with the solution....
You may not rip the books, you look angry. What can you do instead.................................................. make sure you wait wait wait.
may I give you a suggestion? The box of silk scarves feels good or maybe the playdough would those help calm down.
Redirection is supposed to be helping the child find a better solution not giving them a treat to stop a bad behavior.
and yes I use time outs I just keep them as the ultimate solution.
daycare 12:50 PM 05-14-2012
thanks for making that clear.....
I am not too sure that this child is going to work out here. They have been here for over 6 months and this has been the issue since day one. There is no consistency in the childs life at home, so I know that this adds to the problem.
My DC has morning preschool and with a child that is constantly causing me to have to stop every 2 seconds, makes it almost impossble for me to teach. I really do feel that I can't help this child.
I don't think that there are any delays with this child, I just think that the child is really clueless and that is because of the home life.......
Stinks, but I just don't know what else to do???
I am not too sure that this child is going to work out here. They have been here for over 6 months and this has been the issue since day one. There is no consistency in the childs life at home, so I know that this adds to the problem.
My DC has morning preschool and with a child that is constantly causing me to have to stop every 2 seconds, makes it almost impossble for me to teach. I really do feel that I can't help this child.
I don't think that there are any delays with this child, I just think that the child is really clueless and that is because of the home life.......
Stinks, but I just don't know what else to do???
itlw8 01:15 PM 05-14-2012
sorry I will try again.
redirection done correctly is a good technique ... combined with other disipline techniques.
If parents thinks it is give a child a treat to stop the bad behavior they are wrong.
It is teaching the child to make the better choices themselves. Going to a thinking spot to calm yourself down can be part of the whole picture.
You bait and switch an infant but by 3.5 you have moved far past that into self control
redirection done correctly is a good technique ... combined with other disipline techniques.
If parents thinks it is give a child a treat to stop the bad behavior they are wrong.
It is teaching the child to make the better choices themselves. Going to a thinking spot to calm yourself down can be part of the whole picture.
You bait and switch an infant but by 3.5 you have moved far past that into self control
Creek 02:08 PM 05-14-2012
A 3 1/2 year old should not be ripping books. I definately agree and practice redirection but I would not be redirecting a 3 1/2 year old who was ripping books. That is a direct action to harm our environment which results in sitting out. There are 3 circumstances where I have a child sit out when they are of age and we are past the re-direction stage.
- Hurting others
- Hurting themselves
- Hurting the environment
That's too bad that the dcm is giving you a hard time, but these are your books, you can't have a child ripping them. How does he do with board books? I may not allow him to look at books until you are right there for the time being and let him know the reason why.
Otherwise though, if this parent doesn't recognize the importance of your items, then she is not respecting you or your daycare - seems like a bigger issue may be at hand.
- Hurting others
- Hurting themselves
- Hurting the environment
That's too bad that the dcm is giving you a hard time, but these are your books, you can't have a child ripping them. How does he do with board books? I may not allow him to look at books until you are right there for the time being and let him know the reason why.
Otherwise though, if this parent doesn't recognize the importance of your items, then she is not respecting you or your daycare - seems like a bigger issue may be at hand.
cheerfuldom 09:46 AM 05-15-2012
Originally Posted by daycare:
thanks for making that clear.....
I am not too sure that this child is going to work out here. They have been here for over 6 months and this has been the issue since day one. There is no consistency in the childs life at home, so I know that this adds to the problem.
My DC has morning preschool and with a child that is constantly causing me to have to stop every 2 seconds, makes it almost impossble for me to teach. I really do feel that I can't help this child.
I don't think that there are any delays with this child, I just think that the child is really clueless and that is because of the home life.......
Stinks, but I just don't know what else to do???
Perhaps it is time to give notice because the little one is not the right fit for the program. It could just be that the structure is too much for him and needs to start somewhere where they can begin with basic social skills and other things that your group comes in already knowing to do. When it a kid is 3 and has that many years of consistently not listening or following basic instructions, it is hard to break so many bad habits.thanks for making that clear.....
I am not too sure that this child is going to work out here. They have been here for over 6 months and this has been the issue since day one. There is no consistency in the childs life at home, so I know that this adds to the problem.
My DC has morning preschool and with a child that is constantly causing me to have to stop every 2 seconds, makes it almost impossble for me to teach. I really do feel that I can't help this child.
I don't think that there are any delays with this child, I just think that the child is really clueless and that is because of the home life.......
Stinks, but I just don't know what else to do???
Ariana 10:21 AM 05-15-2012
Redirection as a sole form of discipline in a 3.5 yr old is not age appropriate. An 18 month old? maybe.