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Old 06-20-2011, 07:29 PM
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Question Parents Treating Children Poorly

I have been visting with a friend and everytime I go there I know I will see the neighbor treat her children poorly. Usually it's just shocking behavior that will teach them bad habits such as the parent play tug o war and saying "give me that toy" or taking things away and saying "MINE" to get a rise out of the child. Another is calling them "punk" or "brat" etc when addressing them. Even worse is allowing a 22 month old to run down the sidewalk and just yelling his name and saying "he knows better he better stop" then when he doesnt and runs into the street the Mother gets up and picks him and cracks his butt for not listening.

Today I actually had to leave because I can't keep my mouth shut much longer and the Mom doesnt care for my opinion as she already stated in the past when I made suggestions. Today she was taking her fist and acting like she was punching a 9 month old in the forhead! She would show him her fistand say "U see this?" then set it on his forhead and push his head back saying "POW". She did this many times 6-8 maybe. I spoke up again and was loud about it this time. Her reply was "shut up he likes it watch" and she continues doing it. I didnt see him liking it, he was just sitting there. He wasn't crying but still!! Then she slaps the sides of his face, little cheek pats repeatedly and that does make him laugh but what is this teaching him???!!!

Again the 22 month old gets up and takes off. Shes yelling as he gets to the curb and stays seated texting. I had enough and went after him myself. I get him back to his still seated Mother who then makes a fist and puts it in his face asking "DO U WANT THIS?" He shakes his head no and she says "Then Fn listen or I'll knock your teeth out" It was then i had to leave!

No matter what I have to say, kindly and gently or sternly and loudly she doesn't give a damn. What can be done? I have never seen her beat him just that crack to his rear when he ran into the street. It is her fault!!! He's playing chase me! But this other verbal abuse and the fists... What can be done here if anything.
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Old 06-20-2011, 07:55 PM
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Verbal abuse is still abuse
I would report Her tomorrow asap
That's no way To treat anyone let alone a child!
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Old 06-20-2011, 08:51 PM
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Verbal abuse is still abuse
I would report Her tomorrow asap
That's no way To treat anyone let alone a child!
The last time I reported someone for verbal abuse (over a yr ago) nothing came of it. I was asked if I saw the child beaten, bruises, do they have clothing are they fed etc. When I told them yes but... I was told they would check into it and the parent still verbally bashes her child on a daily basis. Bosses him around like cinderella and always f this f that, u do it or else...

I think our system is severely flawed and in need of a huge change. I have even requested that a case worker just sit in a parked car for 30 mins on a certain street and watch. They would have enough to prove a case. I was told "We don't have the resources for that"

I am reporting this tom tho see where this 1 goes. Thanks for the reply daycare!
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Old 06-20-2011, 09:43 PM
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I know what you mean. Btdt
Years ago I reported one of my own friends for verbal abuse. CPS came out and inspected but nothing came of it.
However, the CPS worker told me that if complaints continued eventually something would happen.
It did scare the daylights out of my friend and she changed her tune a little. I stopped being friends with her shortly after.

Good luck. Let me know what happens
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Old 06-21-2011, 02:46 AM
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She is a horrible mother!! OMG I'm just....OMG!!! I wouldn't have been able to stay either and watch that.

I think you have some basis for reporting between the threats, playing at violence, bum smacking and lack of safety with the child running into the road. If she acts that way in front of people she doesn't know well HOW does she act when noone is there?
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Old 06-21-2011, 03:24 AM
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Why would "bum smacking" be a reportable abuse when a child heads for the road, and disregards any warning given, even if 22 mo old. This is exactly why we have the "kind" of kids in our society that we do, out of control, disrespectful, spoiled, etc. Everyone is afraid to discipline their child, and when they do, you have someone watching you ready to turn you in. Seriously, sounds like their idea of "play" and "goofing around" is much different than what you feel is appropriate. Doesn't mean she is hurting her child in any way. While it may be a little out there, it is far from abuse in my opinion. 99 % of my parents just stand and yell at their young child to not go towards the street, they will catch them in time and pop them on the butt. While telling a 22 mo old that he better listen or I'll knock your fn teeth out is definately wrong and a very bad way to handle it, it is her way, and no ones business. I think this is a situation where a good friend or family member should step in and speak to the mom, not some one visiting the neighbors witnessing it.
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Old 06-21-2011, 04:04 AM
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It's called LAZY parenting,and ignorance.It is abuse but you would not believe the way some people treat,speak and raise their children. Unfortunately she was probably treated the same way growing up.She sounds very trashy,and will always be with that attitude.Wow!
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Old 06-21-2011, 04:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mac60 View Post
Why would "bum smacking" be a reportable abuse when a child heads for the road, and disregards any warning given, even if 22 mo old. This is exactly why we have the "kind" of kids in our society that we do, out of control, disrespectful, spoiled, etc. Everyone is afraid to discipline their child, and when they do, you have someone watching you ready to turn you in. Seriously, sounds like their idea of "play" and "goofing around" is much different than what you feel is appropriate. Doesn't mean she is hurting her child in any way. While it may be a little out there, it is far from abuse in my opinion. 99 % of my parents just stand and yell at their young child to not go towards the street, they will catch them in time and pop them on the butt. While telling a 22 mo old that he better listen or I'll knock your fn teeth out is definately wrong and a very bad way to handle it, it is her way, and no ones business. I think this is a situation where a good friend or family member should step in and speak to the mom, not some one visiting the neighbors witnessing it.
I think that mac60 is right. It's sad but I see this type of lazy, don't want to discipline, parenting everyday, at the store, school or anywhere in public. Even though I don't agree with it, I wouldn't report it.
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Old 06-21-2011, 04:49 AM
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I don't agree with it either. But I don't feel it is reportable. Sad, but true. Everyone has their version of parenting, some better, some obviously much worse.
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Old 06-21-2011, 05:16 AM
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I don't agree with it either. But I don't feel it is reportable. Sad, but true. Everyone has their version of parenting, some better, some obviously much worse.
Ditto on what Mac said. At least she's interacting with her child. I'd say that's better than a lot I see.
She doesn't sound like the classiest person in the world though.

I don't understand her letting a 2 year old (not even) wander near a busy road though. Even if it's not a busy road. I hope this child doesn't end up being a statistic. It's amazing how hard Guardian Angels work though.

We had a neighbor that never watched her youngest. I guess she told her older daughters to watch him but he was always in the road (at the age of 2) and I guess the girls were inside on the computer. I was constantly shoeing him back into his fenced in yard. Then one day, after doing it, I turned around to go back home and he winged a wiffle ball bat at me. I stormed up to the house, banged on the door and nobody answered. I then went in the house and called, nobody answered. At that point I decided that it was no longer my job to protect him and just looked the other way. He survived.

A few years later the neighbor did contact his parents when we looked up and saw he was atop a ladder and swinging the power lines back and forth just for fun. Again, he survived. I chalked it up to very strong Guardian Angels.
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Old 06-21-2011, 05:21 AM
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I don't think there is ever an excuse to strike a child especially a BABY who is not being watched properly. Who in their right mind lets a 22 month old get that far away from them on a road? THEN blames the BABY for not listening..... My 2 year olds are good listeners and never go near the road but if one wandered too far it's on ME as their caregiver (or parent) to make sure I'm close enough to keep them safe.
I also find calling your child a brat as a name in poor taste. Punk I can accept as a nickname in the right family. I call my kids hooligans or trouble 1, 2 and 3 but NEVER when I'm angry so they don't get confused. I won't even touch on the face grabbling and the F work thrown in there.

and FTR I have a potty mouth and we do use humor with our kids in a slightly inappropriate fashion so I'm not an uptight child advocate who can't take a joke. She's a mean mother.
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Old 06-21-2011, 07:28 AM
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I'd report it immediately. Even if nothing comes of it at least you did something.
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Old 06-21-2011, 07:47 AM
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I don't think there is ever an excuse to strike a child especially a BABY who is not being watched properly. Who in their right mind lets a 22 month old get that far away from them on a road? THEN blames the BABY for not listening..... My 2 year olds are good listeners and never go near the road but if one wandered too far it's on ME as their caregiver (or parent) to make sure I'm close enough to keep them safe.
I also find calling your child a brat as a name in poor taste. Punk I can accept as a nickname in the right family. I call my kids hooligans or trouble 1, 2 and 3 but NEVER when I'm angry so they don't get confused. I won't even touch on the face grabbling and the F work thrown in there.

and FTR I have a potty mouth and we do use humor with our kids in a slightly inappropriate fashion so I'm not an uptight child advocate who can't take a joke. She's a mean mother.
It may be in poor taste, but it isn't reportable. Neither is a spanking...the government can't regulate good parenting. Unless there is actual ABUSE there isn't anything to report.
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Old 06-21-2011, 07:58 AM
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I don't think a pop on the butt is so bad. I don't hit my own child in any way but that's just me. What I do find awful is the violence she is raising the kids in. Fists in faces and acting like she is punching a BABY in the head. 1 of my fears is these kids will go to preschool or even a daycare like ours and do the same to children. We talk about kids doing these kinds of things and here I see where it's starting from. I just feel the need to help the kids. Maybe I am just too mushy but at that age my child was being loved and adored and played with in a loving manner with smiles galore. NEVER taught to hit before they could even speak. Never taught "MINE" as a 1st word and certainly not cursed at or threatened.

I know I should mind my own business and I do tend to step in and attempt to be a voice for children but if I don't then who will? These kids can't even talk yet. I just can't stand to watch a couple beautiful children being treated this way and raised to be the same. Every child deserves to be loved and I just don't see love here. Maybe they do love the kids behind closed doors but I worry if they do this much in the publics eye what worse things are going on behind closed doors? I wish I were wealthy so that I could take these kids in for free and show them the love and kindness they deserve.
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Old 06-21-2011, 08:19 AM
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I know what you mean. Btdt
Years ago I reported one of my own friends for verbal abuse. CPS came out and inspected but nothing came of it.
However, the CPS worker told me that if complaints continued eventually something would happen.
It did scare the daylights out of my friend and she changed her tune a little. I stopped being friends with her shortly after.

Good luck. Let me know what happens
That is all I would like to see in this case. I don't want to see any child taken away and put in a home or worse but I would like for the parents to have the poo scared out of them just once and make an effort to better that childs life. I am a firm believer in we learn what we live and today there seem to be too many people having kids and not having the love to go with it.

There are lots of women who can't have children and pray for a child then I see other people having babies left and right and neglecting or abusing them or just letting them grow without the love and support and structure they need.

I don't make reports often. Actually have only made 3 reports in my life. 1 was unfounded because there was no physical abuse. Another the people oddly moved away in a hurry after being investigated. And the 3rd long ago (before I became a provider) was a mother that had her children out in November with no shoes or coats waiting on a bus. They only had sweat suits on. There wasn't any snow but it was cold out! The children were about 3 and 5 maybe. They were about to cry complaining they were so cold. She was in high heeled boots and a fur like coat. She yelled at them that she doesnt have time to wait for them to put their shoes on or they will miss the bus. I reported her and 2 weeks later CPS went in and found drugs and guns in the home. I heard that other people had reported her as well so maybe it takes a few complaints before anything is actually done.
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Old 06-21-2011, 08:29 AM
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i didn't read all the posts, but I am 50/50 on what mac said.

the bum smack isn't the reportable issue. But the lack of supervision, the "fake" punching etc is. And the way she speaks to her child.

HOWEVER, based on what you stated regarding the fist and the "do you want this" and him saying no, tells me the child knows what "this" is. That if he misbehaves he will get the fist, and that's her threat.

As someone else stated as well, if she's on good behavior in front of strangers and she behaves that poorly, just imagine behind closed doors. One of these days that child is going to step on the road, and it's going to be too late. And that mom is going to be the victim. If there is enough reports on her to have a decent file saying she is neglecting the child, or not supervising, should the day come, she can't cry innocent.

i dont' agree with reporting for any little thing. and I have never reported. I had a mom give her daughter a smack on the bum once, but she was being really bad, and had been warned many many times. but this little girl is a perfect little angel. And I don't feel it's up to me to tell them how to discipline their child. If it was a hard smack ok maybe i'd say please don't do that here. but there are some things i couldn't walk away from without a guilty conscience. And that would be one of them.

Last edited by dEHmom; 06-21-2011 at 08:38 AM.
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Old 06-21-2011, 08:35 AM
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I would report. I would, every time I visited my frend, document every harsh interaction I observed. I would report every single time until something was done about it. CPS would get so sick of hearing from me they'd investigate just to get rid of me. At the very least this is emotional abuse, which has been proven to be as bad or worse than actual physical abuse in many cases.


And, I would have a very hard time not telling Mom to come on over and pick on someone her own size.
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Old 06-21-2011, 08:40 AM
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I would report. I would, every time I visited my frend, document every harsh interaction I observed. I would report every single time until something was done about it. CPS would get so sick of hearing from me they'd investigate just to get rid of me. At the very least this is emotional abuse, which has been proven to be as bad or worse than actual physical abuse in many cases.


And, I would have a very hard time not telling Mom to come on over and pick on someone her own size.
i agree. I think the issue with lack of support when reports are made, is lack of proof. if a kid is being physically abused, there will be clear signs of this. Bad parenting, they can put on an act in front of the people while they are investigating. Just imagine it reversed though, if this woman complained about YOU and they come and take your kids away while they find out what's really going on. I mean it sucks, but that's the way it is, because there's too many people who would abuse it.
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Old 06-21-2011, 08:44 AM
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I would report. I would, every time I visited my frend, document every harsh interaction I observed. I would report every single time until something was done about it. CPS would get so sick of hearing from me they'd investigate just to get rid of me. At the very least this is emotional abuse, which has been proven to be as bad or worse than actual physical abuse in many cases.


And, I would have a very hard time not telling Mom to come on over and pick on someone her own size.
And while you are making constant complaints over what is certainly poor parenting, children who are being starved, sexually abused and beaten won't be getting the help that they need because overworked social workers are busy chasing after "harsh interactions."

None of the issues stated would ever result in a child being removed from a home...they'll check on the kids, determine that they are healthy, well fed and don't show signs of physical abuse and then they will move on.
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Old 06-21-2011, 08:45 AM
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i agree. I think the issue with lack of support when reports are made, is lack of proof. if a kid is being physically abused, there will be clear signs of this. Bad parenting, they can put on an act in front of the people while they are investigating. Just imagine it reversed though, if this woman complained about YOU and they come and take your kids away while they find out what's really going on. I mean it sucks, but that's the way it is, because there's too many people who would abuse it.
I think if someone reported them, they would just be made to take parenting classes.(which they need badly) and hopefully would be too scared to treat their kids this way again... or just not in public

Do you worry about retaliation?
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Old 06-21-2011, 08:52 AM
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Pitterpatter, you are a good soul. On the one hand, a lot of what you described I would put in the MYOB category, just like you said...but, if you really want to get CPS attention, you can just report her for letting her child run into the middle of the road. That is a physical danger. If I saw a toddler running into the road with no supervision, I would call 911 immediately and go get the kid.

Sounds like she's just parenting based on what she's familiar with, like most of us do. Sad, but someone needs to teach her to break the cycle.
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Old 06-21-2011, 08:55 AM
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And while you are making constant complaints over what is certainly poor parenting, children who are being starved, sexually abused and beaten won't be getting the help that they need because overworked social workers are busy chasing after "harsh interactions."
I get what you are saying, but THIS child and any siblings are at risk. I cannot believe that anyone would think otherwise.

I have a DCM who works for CPS.....she said this should be reported. I just talked to her at drop off. She said that THESE types of cases are often not reported and those are the children that tend to become statistics. Mom is one bad decision away from seriously injuring or killing her child.
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Old 06-21-2011, 09:02 AM
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I think if someone reported them, they would just be made to take parenting classes.(which they need badly) and hopefully would be too scared to treat their kids this way again... or just not in public

Do you worry about retaliation?
http://www.co.dakota.mn.us/LawJustic...porterInfo.htm
You are required by law while working in certain fields to report incidences of abuse and or neglect...regardless of your fear of retailiation. YOU can be prosecuted for not reporting.

In this situation, however, I too think it is poor parenting and possibly offering support or some friendly education to this mom may be a better way to approach the subject. This mom may not know how to prent and may not see the error in her ways. Who knows how she grew up or was treated by her parents. I would try niceness before "telling" someone else how to parent when there is no way as an observer we could possibly know all the details. I used to tell my daughter when she was young (like under 5), "Do you want me to beat you again?" Of course, she was never even spanked and it was kind of a running joke with between us and a cue for her to behave etc. So I am just saying it is impossible to know all the details in regards to this mom and her parenting abilities.
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Old 06-21-2011, 09:05 AM
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Thanks for the advise everyone! My daycare monitor is stopping by tomorrow to bring me a book. I will mention it to him when he comes and see what he says. I hate being put in a position like this! Maybe I need to just stay home and not go anywhere so as to avoid witnessing such things.
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Old 06-21-2011, 09:05 AM
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I get what you are saying, but THIS child and any siblings are at risk. I cannot believe that anyone would think otherwise.

I have a DCM who works for CPS.....she said this should be reported. I just talked to her at drop off. She said that THESE types of cases are often not reported and those are the children that tend to become statistics. Mom is one bad decision away from seriously injuring or killing her child.
They certainly may be at risk...and I don't know about California but I do know about Minnesota...and here NOTHING would happen. In fact, in talking with a Family therapist with a Master's in social work, I learned that without any actual broken bones the State probably won't be able to do anything.

Keep in mind one thing...most of the time crack heads get there kids back even after they have starved and abused their kids. The State is severely limited in what they can do. Of course your friend is going to tell you to report, to suggest anything else from her position could be considered unethical and if something did happen and she told you it wasn't reportable, it would be on her. ALL social service employees will tell you to report.

That doesn't change the reality of the situation. Nothing will come of it, and the kids may end up being put in more danger due to a report that doesn't lead anywhere. Mom and Dad's stress level may increase and abuse may escalate, but now they will be more careful about when and where they are doing it.

All I'm saying is to use caution or you may do more harm than good. From a social services perspective, reporting is the right thing to do; but if we are talking about being realistic, maybe not.
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Old 06-21-2011, 09:08 AM
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On another note...all kids are one bad decision away from being seriously injured or killed. Kids allowed to ride without helmets, who bathe or swim unattended, who eat grapes without being cut up, not in proper car seats, etc...

The State can only regulate poor parenting to a certain point...
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Old 06-21-2011, 09:16 AM
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Did you ever thing that maybe this mom is just trying to get your goat as she knows you are watching her and your past history with her???

I do not at all think any of this is reportable and if you do, most likely nothing will become of it other than possibly putting the children at a real risk. I hope she doesn't know who you are or that you run a childcare. I would be worried about backlash from her and we all know that reports against providers are taken much more seriously.
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Old 06-21-2011, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
http://www.co.dakota.mn.us/LawJustic...porterInfo.htm
You are required by law while working in certain fields to report incidences of abuse and or neglect...regardless of your fear of retailiation. YOU can be prosecuted for not reporting.

In this situation, however, I too think it is poor parenting and possibly offering support or some friendly education to this mom may be a better way to approach the subject. This mom may not know how to parent and may not see the error in her ways. Who knows how she grew up or was treated by her parents. I would try niceness before "telling" someone else how to parent when there is no way as an observer we could possibly know all the details. I used to tell my daughter when she was young (like under 5), "Do you want me to beat you again?" Of course, she was never even spanked and it was kind of a running joke with between us and a cue for her to behave etc. So I am just saying it is impossible to know all the details in regards to this mom and her parenting abilities.
I tried that 2 weeks ago. I started by talking to the child myself and redirecting him when he would venture out to the sidewalk and down the street so the Mom could see an example of how it can be handled differently. He would come back with me and I gave him a distraction (collecting fallen flower petals and lining them up in a row which worked to keep him busy for a while!) Next day he ran off again and Mom just sat there yelling down the street as he ran away. So when the example didn't work after a few times I tried talking to the Mom. I sat down with her and told her I know how frustrating parenting can be.... blah blah... She doesn't care. She said "well its my way or the highway" She's too busy sitting on her butt texting or doing her nails etc to get up and make a correction. So I backed off for a week until yesterday. I did get firm with her and was told to shut up so I am done discussing it with her in any way.
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Old 06-21-2011, 09:22 AM
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I tried that 2 weeks ago. I started by talking to the child myself and redirecting him when he would venture out to the sidewalk and down the street so the Mom could see an example of how it can be handled differently. He would come back with me and I gave him a distraction (collecting fallen flower petals and lining them up in a row which worked to keep him busy for a while!) Next day he ran off again and Mom just sat there yelling down the street as he ran away. So when the example didn't work after a few times I tried talking to the Mom. I sat down with her and told her I know how frustrating parenting can be.... blah blah... She doesn't care. She said "well its my way or the highway" She's too busy sitting on her butt texting or doing her nails etc to get up and make a correction. So I backed off for a week until yesterday. I did get firm with her and was told to shut up so I am done discussing it with her in any way.
Well, you tried. . It is a sad situation and it is even sadder that there are parents out there who treat their child like you described. I wish I could offer some cure all advice that would be beneficial to every child and every parent out there so they wouldn't have to live in that manner, but then I guess I would have found something equivalent to the fountain of youth then huh?
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Old 06-21-2011, 09:28 AM
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Well, you tried. . It is a sad situation and it is even sadder that there are parents out there who treat their child like you described. I wish I could offer some cure all advice that would be beneficial to every child and every parent out there so they wouldn't have to live in that manner, but then I guess I would have found something equivalent to the fountain of youth then huh?
Yeah then we wouldn't need this forum either for all the help, support and guidance! We would have perfect angels and perfect clients...

Thanks Blackcat!
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Old 06-21-2011, 10:39 AM
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Even though the neighbor mom could definitely be doing better, it seems like reporting her for might end up being pointless because for every parent who yells at their children, I'll bet that there are more that are doing much worse to their children than that. There's not nearly enough money in budgets as it is for social workers and they are already stretched so thin. I'm not saying that yelling at her kid is right, I just think that there are too many cases out there of abuse that are much more extreme.

As far as her punching and slapping, are you sure that it's not just how they play? It wouldn't be the first time that I've heard of that. With her calling him a "punk" and things like that, I'm as guilty of that as she is because I have always played around with my daughter that way. It's always been that way. I used to say things like "Wanna fight, punk?" and then wrestle around with her. If you are going to report her for physical abuse, I would pay close attention to the context.
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Old 06-21-2011, 12:08 PM
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For everyone saying that there are worst cases out there let me say this...

MAYBE SO! but that doesn't make it right. the kids who are silent, the kids are are verbally abused daily, the kids who are secretly beaten, punched, slapped, screamed at, there's no where for them to go? the ones who are too small to stand up for themselves have to just take it until one day mom/dad beats them in public and someone sees? Is it ONLY then that someone will step in and help these children? Is it only after they are dead that someone will care?

Yes there aren't as many resources as there needs to be. But it doesn't matter. There are people in jail cells because they robbed a store to feed their children, people who don't pay their taxes, people who tagged along or were involved in some way for a ridiculous crime, people who steal cars, all using up the system, wasting space. They deserve to be punished, but then there is no one to defend, no one to stand up for these little kids who are treated so badly and can't stand up for themselves, they put up with it, and may be part of a suicidal statistic one day, because their parents put on a happy face when a report was looked into or brushed over because they are fed, clothed and sheltered?????
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Old 06-21-2011, 12:36 PM
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for everyone saying that there are worst cases out there let me say this...

Maybe so! But that doesn't make it right. The kids who are silent, the kids are are verbally abused daily, the kids who are secretly beaten, punched, slapped, screamed at, there's no where for them to go? The ones who are too small to stand up for themselves have to just take it until one day mom/dad beats them in public and someone sees? Is it only then that someone will step in and help these children? Is it only after they are dead that someone will care?

Yes there aren't as many resources as there needs to be. But it doesn't matter. There are people in jail cells because they robbed a store to feed their children, people who don't pay their taxes, people who tagged along or were involved in some way for a ridiculous crime, people who steal cars, all using up the system, wasting space. They deserve to be punished, but then there is no one to defend, no one to stand up for these little kids who are treated so badly and can't stand up for themselves, they put up with it, and may be part of a suicidal statistic one day, because their parents put on a happy face when a report was looked into or brushed over because they are fed, clothed and sheltered?????
thank you!
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Old 06-21-2011, 01:04 PM
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[quote=PitterPatter;121419]The last time I reported someone for verbal abuse (over a yr ago) nothing came of it. I was asked if I saw the child beaten, bruises, do they have clothing are they fed etc. When I told them yes but... I was told they would check into it and the parent still verbally bashes her child on a daily basis. Bosses him around like cinderella and always f this f that, u do it or else...

I think our system is severely flawed and in need of a huge change. I have even requested that a case worker just sit in a parked car for 30 mins on a certain street and watch. They would have enough to prove a case. I was told "We don't have the resources for that"

I am reporting this tom tho see where this 1 goes. Thanks for the reply daycare![/QUOTe


I took classes in college on this and what I was told was that they keep record of every report. their hands are tied, but the more reports,. the better chance they will be able to investigate and do something about it. I think mom needs some better parentiong skills for certain. sad to say, it's possibly how she was raised sad, very sad.
i would def. report that. that little one may end up getting badly injured.
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Old 06-21-2011, 01:05 PM
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I wish that we could recognize overspoiling, never telling your child "no", and letting your child run your household as abuse, but this is the way people want their kids these days.

I live in a part of the US where lots of people are kind of like this mom, it is ignorant, we are southern bred and it is a different culture, just that way. It may be abusive, but even the most well meaning parents fail in some way or another.
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Old 06-21-2011, 01:11 PM
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For everyone saying that there are worst cases out there let me say this...

MAYBE SO! but that doesn't make it right. the kids who are silent, the kids are are verbally abused daily, the kids who are secretly beaten, punched, slapped, screamed at, there's no where for them to go? the ones who are too small to stand up for themselves have to just take it until one day mom/dad beats them in public and someone sees? Is it ONLY then that someone will step in and help these children? Is it only after they are dead that someone will care?

Yes there aren't as many resources as there needs to be. But it doesn't matter. There are people in jail cells because they robbed a store to feed their children, people who don't pay their taxes, people who tagged along or were involved in some way for a ridiculous crime, people who steal cars, all using up the system, wasting space. They deserve to be punished, but then there is no one to defend, no one to stand up for these little kids who are treated so badly and can't stand up for themselves, they put up with it, and may be part of a suicidal statistic one day, because their parents put on a happy face when a report was looked into or brushed over because they are fed, clothed and sheltered?????
Just so you know, it isn't that I agree that it should be this way...it just is what it is. Do I think that each and every one of us should stand up when we see a child mistreated...absolutely. I have made more than one phone call to CPS. One for a child whose Dad was drunk off his butt, on a boat with two of my daycare kids. The police met him at the dock, he blew a .17 and guess what...he didn't even get a BUI. This same Dad was in court another time for throwing his child up against a wall at the Target Center. Mom has had him in and out of court several times. Nothing. Zip. Zero.

Another time I had a daycare parent tell me that she lost her temper with her dd and threw the remote at her. It left a mark, the child was 2.5, I called CPS...guess what...nada...

Another time I saw a man pushing his child in to the car, screaming at him that the child was stupid, reaching in and smacking the kid around. I pulled up behind him in the parking lot and called 911. The police called me back later and said that there was no evidence of physical injury and...you got it...thank you for my time, but nothing can be done.

I am not unsympathetic, but I think it is important to understand the difference between abuse and poor parenting. It is also very important to realize the limited role the CPS actually plays in the welfare of children outside of the extreme cases.

Do I wish it were different? Absolutely. Does it infuriate me? Yes. I'm just giving the reality of the situation from my personal experience.
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Old 06-21-2011, 02:08 PM
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Jen, I totally understand where you are coming from, but I feel that we cannot allow it to make us cynical. We should still report, even if we believe nothing will be done about it. Because WHAT IF our instinct is right and CPS checks into it and finds it to be even worse than we ever imagined? And, if they don't, at least we did our best to make a difference, to attempt to ensure a child's safety.

I know I never want to be faced with the "what if" when a child is found dead because I didn't call due to thinking that CPS wouldn't listen or act when I believed that there was a possibility that a child was being abused.
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Old 06-21-2011, 08:41 PM
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I have been visting with a friend and everytime I go there I know I will see the neighbor treat her children poorly. Usually it's just shocking behavior that will teach them bad habits such as the parent play tug o war and saying "give me that toy" or taking things away and saying "MINE" to get a rise out of the child. Another is calling them "punk" or "brat" etc when addressing them. Even worse is allowing a 22 month old to run down the sidewalk and just yelling his name and saying "he knows better he better stop" then when he doesnt and runs into the street the Mother gets up and picks him and cracks his butt for not listening.

Today I actually had to leave because I can't keep my mouth shut much longer and the Mom doesnt care for my opinion as she already stated in the past when I made suggestions. Today she was taking her fist and acting like she was punching a 9 month old in the forhead! She would show him her fistand say "U see this?" then set it on his forhead and push his head back saying "POW". She did this many times 6-8 maybe. I spoke up again and was loud about it this time. Her reply was "shut up he likes it watch" and she continues doing it. I didnt see him liking it, he was just sitting there. He wasn't crying but still!! Then she slaps the sides of his face, little cheek pats repeatedly and that does make him laugh but what is this teaching him???!!!

Again the 22 month old gets up and takes off. Shes yelling as he gets to the curb and stays seated texting. I had enough and went after him myself. I get him back to his still seated Mother who then makes a fist and puts it in his face asking "DO U WANT THIS?" He shakes his head no and she says "Then Fn listen or I'll knock your teeth out" It was then i had to leave!

No matter what I have to say, kindly and gently or sternly and loudly she doesn't give a damn. What can be done? I have never seen her beat him just that crack to his rear when he ran into the street. It is her fault!!! He's playing chase me! But this other verbal abuse and the fists... What can be done here if anything.
Pitterpatter, you seem to WANT to report this issue, because seriously, something DOES need to be done and arguing over what social services can and cannot do shouldn't even be a factor in whether or not to make a legitimate call to them because what they may or may not do is completely out of our control.

I suppose I don't quite understand why a 2 year old running alone in the streets, even for a minute, doesn't qualify as life-threatening enough to make the call. It only takes a second or two for a car to run over a baby and kill it. Is he, actually, running alone in the streets?

If it were me, I may have overlooked the abusive speech and threats of beatings and chalked it up to bad parenting. I would not and could not overlook a 2 year old running alone in the street, even if it's not a busy one.

Why the hesitation to make the call?
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Old 06-22-2011, 12:31 AM
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I hesitated because I had no proof and that is always 1 of the 1st questions they ask for along with the feeding, shelter, clothing and did I witness bruises or beatings etc. As I said I reported before on a family and nothing came of that report and I was left looking/feeling like an idiot and another time the children were removed but because they found serious issues in the home. It could open a can of worms and end up being worse on me when I am found out as the reporter and the children still have the same life. I would take the possible repercussions if it meant the Mom would treat the kids better but in all reality I dont see that happening. I tried a few approaches myself and she is too stubborn.

To clarify, He isn't running in the streets all day. He has ran to the street, off of the curb, onto the street where cars park but he's not running up and down the middle of the street playing in the street or anything. He just wants her to chase him.

Another reason I didn't know if I should report it is I don't know what really is considered abuse these days that's another reason I posted asking for the advise. Just look at the replies here. Everyone has a dif opinion on what abuse is. It seems to me families are more verbally abusive than ever so it seems to be becoming accepted. I just feel it is wrong and I would never treat my child or any child that way. I guess I was born at the wrong time. I should have been Beaver Cleavers neighbor.

Then I have this "mandated reporter" thing hovering over my head everytime I see parents mistreating thier children and it's such a fine line I don't know what I should do most of the time. I feel put on the spot so to speak. This instance just had me too worked up because I have sat there and watched it more than once. I decided I can't go to my friends anymore because I don't want to see these kids treated this way. She will have to visit me from now on or we will stay inside.

Oh and the street isn't constantly busy but it does have many cars through the day. There was just a lot of questions going through my mind so I wasn't sure what to do. I put it in the hands of the monitor when he came. He asked the same questions I knew he would ask. When I replied yes they are fed, yes they are clean... etc I just felt stupid going on with it. He said he will check into it. Whatever that means.
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Old 06-22-2011, 05:15 AM
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I'm pretty floored at the number of you who think that although it's bad parenting it shouldn't be reported. Our job as responsible adults is to protect the innocent. Children that are suffering verbal abuse are at risk for long term psychological damage. That breaks my heart. They can go on to be abusive themselves, have horrible relationships and overall are unable to be good parents themselves because of their poor role models. This woman is raising statistics to me and it's awful. On top of that she's neglectful IMO.

I would never hestitate to defend any child I thought was being treated poorly. Who knows?? Maybe that one second in the spotlight for the parent will make them uncomfortable enough to think twice the next time they feel like telling their baby to "effing listen" or to get up when their child is running into the street instead of screaming.
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Old 06-22-2011, 05:24 AM
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Wouldn't this fall under maltreatment of a child? Maybe you need to report it that way.
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Old 06-22-2011, 07:22 AM
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Usually it's just shocking behavior that will teach them bad habits such as the parent play tug o war and saying "give me that toy" or taking things away and saying "MINE" to get a rise out of the child.

This might be considered poor parenting...some might consider it playing. It's a judgement call, not abuse or neglect.

Another is calling them "punk" or "brat" etc when addressing them.

Again, not abuse or neglect. Poor parenting, not reportable.

Even worse is allowing a 22 month old to run down the sidewalk and just yelling his name and saying "he knows better he better stop" then when he doesnt and runs into the street the Mother gets up and picks him and cracks his butt for not listening.

This is quite possibly the least effective way to teach a child not to cross the street, especially at this age but it is NOT abuse.

Today she was taking her fist and acting like she was punching a 9 month old in the forhead! She would show him her fistand say "U see this?" then set it on his forhead and push his head back saying "POW". She did this many times 6-8 maybe. I spoke up again and was loud about it this time. Her reply was "shut up he likes it watch" and she continues doing it. I didnt see him liking it, he was just sitting there. He wasn't crying but still!! Then she slaps the sides of his face, little cheek pats repeatedly and that does make him laugh but what is this teaching him???!!!

Again, this isn't abuse. What she's "teaching him" isn't reportable. The kid was laughing. I personally wouldn't pretend to punch a baby in the head because it is pretty trashy behavior, but that doesn't make it abuse.

Again the 22 month old gets up and takes off. Shes yelling as he gets to the curb and stays seated texting. I had enough and went after him myself. I get him back to his still seated Mother who then makes a fist and puts it in his face asking "DO U WANT THIS?" He shakes his head no and she says "Then Fn listen or I'll knock your teeth out" It was then i had to leave!

Shockingly bad behavior...and perhaps the only reportable thing here. And to be honest, I have to wonder if she isn't doing some of this stuff just to get you riled up.

No matter what I have to say, kindly and gently or sternly and loudly she doesn't give a damn. What can be done? I have never seen her beat him just that crack to his rear when he ran into the street. It is her fault!!! He's playing chase me! But this other verbal abuse and the fists... What can be done here if anything.

In the end, we weren't there. You are the only one who can judge whether or not you believe this kid is actually in danger or if his Mom is simply an idiot. Well, not the only one. What does your friend think?
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Old 06-22-2011, 07:41 AM
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I'm also very astounded by everyones responses. Why, you may ask? I know for a fact that if a provider was doing this to a child, oh my gosh, holy **** would be raised but since its a parent doing this its fine! If a provider was doing this she would lose her liscense and probably never be able to do the profession again. The things we have to do to be able to do this job is incredibly ridiculous at times but parents can put their childs life at risk everyday and no big deal.

I was talking to a friend that is a nurse and asked if she would like working on the Labor/Delivery floor. Sadly, she said no as it is a rarety for her to see parents excited about having a baby! That broke my heart as it seriously was not the first time I have heard this. When my last child was born the nurse said it was so nice to see a couple that wanted their baby and was excited to be taking it home and be parents.

To say that maybe they live in the part of America where treating your child like that is the norm and excepted. I think that is very sad! No wonder certain parts of our country are looked down and we don't expect much from the people that come from there.

Please, please let this lady know that this is unacceptable and you will be sticking up for this little boy. Will your friend back up your claims or do you have a husband or boyfriend that can go with you, witness it and then also call in a report. You are this little boys voice and because we have let people do this for so long and looked the other way that is why the states have such a hard time keeping up with the case loads.
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Old 06-22-2011, 07:53 AM
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But what gives other individuals the right to suggest, decide, or judge how someone else should treat and or discipline their child. No one. Yes, as a member of society, if we blatently see someone abusing a child, it most definately is our duty to intervene, but, if the authorities got a phone call for everytime someone "didn't like what they saw in how a parent was treating/disciplining their child, it would be total overload, a little like the boy who cried wolf. Some people don't believe in spanking, some do, etc. This is only a very small example of the wide range of bringing up/disciplining someone's child and the wide range of variety in our society. While some may not believe in spanking, some may think that a time out or redirection is a joke. Everyone has the right to believe in their own way.
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Old 06-22-2011, 07:55 AM
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I'm also very astounded by everyones responses. Why, you may ask? I know for a fact that if a provider was doing this to a child, oh my gosh, holy **** would be raised but since its a parent doing this its fine! If a provider was doing this she would lose her liscense and probably never be able to do the profession again. The things we have to do to be able to do this job is incredibly ridiculous at times but parents can put their childs life at risk everyday and no big deal.
I certainly don't think its fine, but since we don't require parents to get a license to practice, they aren't held to the same kinds of standards that we are.

That line of thought goes along the same lines as a person who is making the family dinner being held to the same standards as a commericial kitchen in a restaurant!
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Old 06-22-2011, 08:00 AM
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Double post....removed.
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Old 06-22-2011, 12:09 PM
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I reported a verbally abusive father once and was asked if the mother had custody at all. When I said yes the response was "Well the children have an escape from the verbal abuse so there is nothing we can do." And so the children continued to have visits with their dad every weekend until the dad became physically abusive toward the mother and she refused to give him the kids unless the exchanged happened at the police station. Soon after the father physically attacked the mom the 8 year old began to physically attack mom too. Unfortunately she physically retaliated one night and I had to report her too. Oddly enough they responded to that call rather than having responded 6 months earlier to the verbal abusive dad. The system is quite messed up but thankfully the kids are still with mom and the dad is not in the picture any more. And mom is taking classes and therapy to be a better mom and the older kid is in therapy to deal with all that his dad put him through.
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Old 06-22-2011, 10:00 PM
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I hesitated because I had no proof and that is always 1 of the 1st questions they ask for along with the feeding, shelter, clothing and did I witness bruises or beatings etc. As I said I reported before on a family and nothing came of that report and I was left looking/feeling like an idiot and another time the children were removed but because they found serious issues in the home. It could open a can of worms and end up being worse on me when I am found out as the reporter and the children still have the same life. I would take the possible repercussions if it meant the Mom would treat the kids better but in all reality I dont see that happening. I tried a few approaches myself and she is too stubborn.

To clarify, He isn't running in the streets all day. He has ran to the street, off of the curb, onto the street where cars park but he's not running up and down the middle of the street playing in the street or anything. He just wants her to chase him.

Another reason I didn't know if I should report it is I don't know what really is considered abuse these days that's another reason I posted asking for the advise. Just look at the replies here. Everyone has a dif opinion on what abuse is. It seems to me families are more verbally abusive than ever so it seems to be becoming accepted. I just feel it is wrong and I would never treat my child or any child that way. I guess I was born at the wrong time. I should have been Beaver Cleavers neighbor.

Then I have this "mandated reporter" thing hovering over my head everytime I see parents mistreating thier children and it's such a fine line I don't know what I should do most of the time. I feel put on the spot so to speak. This instance just had me too worked up because I have sat there and watched it more than once. I decided I can't go to my friends anymore because I don't want to see these kids treated this way. She will have to visit me from now on or we will stay inside.

Oh and the street isn't constantly busy but it does have many cars through the day. There was just a lot of questions going through my mind so I wasn't sure what to do. I put it in the hands of the monitor when he came. He asked the same questions I knew he would ask. When I replied yes they are fed, yes they are clean... etc I just felt stupid going on with it. He said he will check into it. Whatever that means.
I know it's hard sometimes to figure out when to intervene and when not to intervene. The verbal abuse thing? It's tremendously damaging, yes, to both the victim and society at large, but as has been pointed out, there are so many different parenting styles, it's laughable what some people consider abuse. Many of us here on this board can't understand why parents just don't say "NO" to their kids, for crying out loud, but some people actually consider that abusive. That's why I wouldn't be so quick to report someone for verbal abuse. Sticks and stones and whatnot.....but physical abuse or physical danger is a different thing. Anytime I have ever seen a child running through a store, or a mall, or at a fair, or in a parking lot--anywhere--and there isn't an adult immediately behind them, I stop and watch until I see that they are accompanied and safe. If not, I'm quite willing to watch over the child until I can deliver them to the police. If I have to, I will call the police.

I think that in this situation (as Jen pointed out), the child was put in enough physical danger to consider it a reportable offense. Don't second guess yourself. I think your instincts are telling you to call, but our rather messed up system which can only cater to the worst of the worst of situations is making you feel as if you are wasting someone's time. Don't. Who cares what anyone else thinks? What if this kid does eventually get run over while his mom is watching from the front porch? Would you still feel silly for calling in a report at that point in time?

I saw something on TV the other day that was actually really great. A woman was counseling someone who had absolutely trashed every rare opportunity that had come her way and as a result, messed up her life, and it was the most brilliant way I've ever heard someone express the idea that what other people think doesn't matter. She said, "You know your what your problem is? You wanna know the answer to things. You don't have enough faith that it is just how it's supposed to be; you want to KNOW the answer. The greatest thing that's happened in my life is I don't care anymore."

Pitterpatter, if YOU think this kid is in danger, go with your gut and report it. Then, you've done your job and it's in the hands of a higher power, at which time you have to trust that higher power to keep that kid safe.
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Old 06-22-2011, 10:54 PM
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you may not like or approve of cursing, but cursing is not verbal abuse. would i say "i'm gonna knock your f'n teeth out?" noo, i wouldn't. but it sounds like that's the way this family talks to each other. what you need to consider is do you think she would really knock his teeth out or even hurt him at all? if she had just said "i'm gonna knock your teeth out" in a joking manner, it wouldn't be AS big of a deal, but add that "F" word and people freak out. it's just a word and maybe a poor choice of a word and a word that other people wouldn't use, but it doesn't change her intent or mean that the intent is actually there.

i cuss like a sailor and i make no apologies for it. i've said to my kids, "i'm gonna kick you" and they laugh bc they know i'm joking. the fact i've never and wouldn't ever do that and they know it probably has something to do with it so i'd be highly pissed if i got reported bc a nosey neighbor overheard. we say all kinds of things that other people would consider "inappropriate" but i don't care because it's appropriate in our family dynamic. my husband and i call each other names like we're giving compliments. it's just our sense of humor. i'm guilty of saying "punk" to my kids as well.

basically, you'd be reporting her for cursing and thank goodness for my sake -cursing isn't a crime...yet.
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Old 06-23-2011, 03:49 AM
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It sounds to me that she is:

A) Immature
B) Attention seeking
C) A clown

Sadly, this will affect her children. I would write an anonymous letter (yes, I'm a chicken) and put it on her doorstep. I would threaten to contact CPS if she doesn't straighten up ASAP. Maybe that will scare her into growing up a bit. If not, call CPS and let them deal with her.
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Old 06-23-2011, 07:09 AM
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Here is a question that for everyone that talks to their children this way minus the cussing and says they are joking. Do your own children say these things to other children and then you or them have to explain that you are just joking? Are these things said around your daycare children and then you are having to tell the parents that you or your children are just joking? My own children have tried to talk to me that way and then just say "I'm joking". I just tell them we do not speak that way to anyone joking or not. I know alot of their friends get away with it but I feel it is so disrespectful. I personally don't want to be explaining to parents either of it just the way we talk and joking around.
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Old 06-23-2011, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Country Kids View Post
Here is a question that for everyone that talks to their children this way minus the cussing and says they are joking. Do your own children say these things to other children and then you or them have to explain that you are just joking? Are these things said around your daycare children and then you are having to tell the parents that you or your children are just joking? My own children have tried to talk to me that way and then just say "I'm joking". I just tell them we do not speak that way to anyone joking or not. I know alot of their friends get away with it but I feel it is so disrespectful. I personally don't want to be explaining to parents either of it just the way we talk and joking around.
I did not cuss at my children but I did say "Do you want me to beat you?" or I said I was going to kick their arses and similar things. I even told my 8 year old DD that I would knock her teeth in after she said something really snotty. Are they bad people now? Nope! My kids are now 22 and 19 and are the most respectable, well behaved young adults that you will ever meet. Both have held jobs since they were 15 and both have had current jobs for 7 and 4years respectively. Neither child has ever had a run in with the law or had issues with drugs or alcohol. Both are full time college students and own new cars and pay their own bills.

So in response to your question; no, my children do not act that way to others because they were taught the difference between what was said to them and what is said by them. But yes, as a stressed young mom I did say some terribly inappropriate things to them that by the standards of some on this forum would be considered verbally abusive.

I also told my own brothers and sister as well as friends while growing up that I was gonna kill them every time I was mad but I didn't. Some times words are words and the intentions behind them are what counts. Too many times we see snipets of other people lives and feel the need to judge and I do not think that is right.

I saw a posts on here awhile back where someone complains about seeing a parent in a store discipline or not discipline their child and think poorly of the parent and then another thread by same poster said that someone said something rude to them about how they disciplined their kid and they said it was a 10 minute snipet into their life and the observer had no right assuming anything.

I take being a mandated reporter seriously but I keep it limited to the children in my care where I do know the details and backgrounds. I can actually offer more than "I think..." when I make a report. If I see someone or hear someone saying something to their child in public, if it isn't outright physical abuse, I mind my own.
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Old 06-23-2011, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by QualiTcare View Post
basically, you'd be reporting her for cursing and thank goodness for my sake -cursing isn't a crime...yet.
In some places it is! Here are a couple of "funny" stories about that!

http://www.mizozo.com/weird/12/2010/...-on-a-bus.html

http://www.firstamendmentcenter.com/news.aspx?id=7244
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Old 06-23-2011, 08:05 AM
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All of us who are mandated reporters should take the time to learn what constitutes abuse in our state, and report accordingly.

If, every time we see a parent behaving in a way that we don't condone, we reported it, it would stretch an already overburdened system to the breaking point. I would not like to think that reports that were made that were unfounded were responsible for true reports of abuse going unnoticed or investigated poorly.
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Old 06-23-2011, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
I did not cuss at my children but I did say "Do you want me to beat you?" or I said I was going to kick their arses and similar things. I even told my 8 year old DD that I would knock her teeth in after she said something really snotty. Are they bad people now? Nope! My kids are now 22 and 19 and are the most respectable, well behaved young adults that you will ever meet. Both have held jobs since they were 15 and both have had current jobs for 7 and 4years respectively. Neither child has ever had a run in with the law or had issues with drugs or alcohol. Both are full time college students and own new cars and pay their own bills.

So in response to your question; no, my children do not act that way to others because they were taught the difference between what was said to them and what is said by them. But yes, as a stressed young mom I did say some terribly inappropriate things to them that by the standards of some on this forum would be considered verbally abusive.

I also told my own brothers and sister as well as friends while growing up that I was gonna kill them every time I was mad but I didn't. Some times words are words and the intentions behind them are what counts. Too many times we see snipets of other people lives and feel the need to judge and I do not think that is right.

I saw a posts on here awhile back where someone complains about seeing a parent in a store discipline or not discipline their child and think poorly of the parent and then another thread by same poster said that someone said something rude to them about how they disciplined their kid and they said it was a 10 minute snipet into their life and the observer had no right assuming anything.

I take being a mandated reporter seriously but I keep it limited to the children in my care where I do know the details and backgrounds. I can actually offer more than "I think..." when I make a report. If I see someone or hear someone saying something to their child in public, if it isn't outright physical abuse, I mind my own.
This! This right here!
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Old 06-23-2011, 09:35 AM
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i call my kids brats, monkeys, and lots of stuff, we joke about I'll kick your butt, or "i'm gonna beat you up" but we all know how to do it in good fun, and it's VERY obvious if you are listening or accidentally overheard it passing by that it's all in fun. There is no way that a child laughing hysterically and the tone of our voices come across as bad. And my kids completely understand that's only something we do for fun in the house with each other, and no one else.
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Old 06-27-2011, 11:09 AM
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Sadly, nothing will probably be done in this case even if you call and report it. I witnessed a now "ex friend" of mine physically and verbally her child regularly when we'd be on outings or visits. I asked a social worker's advice and was told that nothing would be done about it because the system is so overwhelmed and understaffed. It broke my heart so bad that I had to cut off the friendship. Still today, many years later, I still wonder what ever came of that kid.
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