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  #1  
Old 02-28-2014, 05:59 AM
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Default New New York Regulations- What Are You All Doing ?

Hi-
I have been a provider in upstate NY for 15 years. I am very split on becoming legally exempt or staying Registered as a Family Provider.
After reading the other threads, reading the new regs, calling VOICE to voice my concerns, talking to my registrar, talking to NannyD, etc... I am STILL at a loss as to what I want to do!
I am a rule follower- I don't want to follow "some" regs and not others- I don want to have to be sneaky in my own home!
Obviously the biggest factor in my choice is $$. I currently can have 6 ft- that would go down to 2! CAN I do it financially- yes... Do I want to?? NO!
My biggest issues:
I can be inspected legally M-F 7am-5:30pm whether I am operating or not!!! If I close for a day and they show up I HAVE to let them in!!
They can now inspect/search my ENTIRE home- not just the parts pertaining to dc!
Four inspections per year- 2 unannounced. That's HUGE jump from 1 announced per year- they are stressful!
Screen time limits for me during nap!!! Yep- I do play candy crush and go on fb! And seeing as it has nothing to do with the health and safety of my kiddos it shouldn't matter! They are NAPPING!!!
There are others but these are the ones that make me want to close my regulated doors...
My husband supports what ever I decide.

What do you all think?? Also- I am either going to stay open and hirer a helper or close and go unregulated... Just FYI-
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Old 02-28-2014, 06:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Familycare71 View Post
Hi-
I have been a provider in upstate NY for 15 years. I am very split on becoming legally exempt or staying Registered as a Family Provider.
After reading the other threads, reading the new regs, calling VOICE to voice my concerns, talking to my registrar, talking to NannyD, etc... I am STILL at a loss as to what I want to do!
I am a rule follower- I don't want to follow "some" regs and not others- I don want to have to be sneaky in my own home!
Obviously the biggest factor in my choice is $$. I currently can have 6 ft- that would go down to 2! CAN I do it financially- yes... Do I want to?? NO!
My biggest issues:
I can be inspected legally M-F 7am-5:30pm whether I am operating or not!!! If I close for a day and they show up I HAVE to let them in!!
They can now inspect/search my ENTIRE home- not just the parts pertaining to dc!

Four inspections per year- 2 unannounced. That's HUGE jump from 1 announced per year- they are stressful!
Screen time limits for me during nap!!! Yep- I do play candy crush and go on fb! And seeing as it has nothing to do with the health and safety of my kiddos it shouldn't matter! They are NAPPING!!!
There are others but these are the ones that make me want to close my regulated doors...
My husband supports what ever I decide.

What do you all think?? Also- I am either going to stay open and hirer a helper or close and go unregulated... Just FYI-
Where did you read this?
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Old 02-28-2014, 06:29 AM
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That sounds nuts! the 4 inspections per year of your WHOLE house is crazy! I hope that doesn't come my way in MA
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Old 02-28-2014, 06:29 AM
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417.15 10 i.
Must admit inspectors and other reps of office onto grounds and premises at anytime during the hours of operation GIVEN TO OFFICE ON APPLICATION OF FAMILY DAYCARE. Given FREE ACCESS TO BUILDING, care givers, employers, volunteers, the children and any records.

The key is it is now based on when you have told them you may operate NOT when you are operating. I have verified this with VOICE and my registrar. I asked my registrar if I email him to tell him I'm closed will they show up. His response was: well- they probably wouldn't because they want to see kids in care. But if they don't check the computer first they may. But- those are the fastest inspections because you don't have to manage kids just show them every thing. If you aren't home that's ok - they will just leave a sorry to miss you note.

And before anyone says- just don't answer the door... On my days off I don't know if I'm willing to hide in my own house!!! And what if I'm outside!?! Clearly they can come around back, etc...
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Old 02-28-2014, 06:30 AM
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I also couldn't get a clear answer on if I have to be within regs when I am closed and clearly have no children here...
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Old 02-28-2014, 06:54 AM
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Free access to grounds/building I was told was to inspect furnace area, smoke detectors, a basic health and safety inspection. Your whole home was never inspected before?

I have been several times and each time they were very respectful, went just to where I directed them smoke detectors and co, extinguishers were and left.

I have a locked door in my basement, it's not a sleeping area and is private. They never even asked.
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Old 02-28-2014, 07:00 AM
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My issue is this: by being registered I have agreed to them inspecting my entire home if asked.
HOPEFULLY- they would just do daycare pertinent areas... BUT they CAN do the entire house! I have had some great inspectors and nasty ones- I don't want to bank on the fact I will get a nice one...
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Old 02-28-2014, 07:03 AM
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Honestly if that is the case it's a HUGE violation of our rights.

The locked room is for my husband/religious reasons. Nobody is allowed in there, but him.
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Old 02-28-2014, 07:06 AM
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also, do these areas have to up to child care code/regs??? Mine are certainly not. no outlet covers in my kids rooms, that sort of thing.
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Old 02-28-2014, 07:14 AM
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Honestly if that is the case it's a HUGE violation of our rights.

The locked room is for my husband/religious reasons. Nobody is allowed in there, but him.
Yes it is!!! Understand tho- at the beginning of the regulations it states that if you CHOOSE to be registered you AGREE to the regulations. So- it is essentially our choice

I feel like I'm the only NY provider who is FREAKING OUT!
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Old 02-28-2014, 07:31 AM
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Nope, you aren't alone. I did not see/hear this anywhere. I went to a meeting about it. I watched the entire video series they posted about it. This was not included.

SNEAKY.

I also haven't received a new regulation/handbook. Wonder WHY!?

If they ask to enter that room, I will have to say no. That's insane.

This means----they can open drawers/closets/cabinets. Do they really need to see my sex toys?
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Old 02-28-2014, 07:55 AM
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This means----they can open drawers/closets/cabinets. Do they really need to see my sex toys?
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Old 02-28-2014, 07:58 AM
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Yes it is!!! Understand tho- at the beginning of the regulations it states that if you CHOOSE to be registered you AGREE to the regulations. So- it is essentially our choice

I feel like I'm the only NY provider who is FREAKING OUT!
You aren't. I'm getting rich off of NYS consults. Spread the word
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Old 02-28-2014, 08:09 AM
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You aren't. I'm getting rich off of NYS consults. Spread the word
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  #15  
Old 02-28-2014, 08:09 AM
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I. Just. Want. To. Do. My. Job.

Please can I do it without feeling the need to call the ACLU???? Apparently not.

I am at a loss about how to protest these changes in a professional manner. If you say anything against the regs you are portrayed as someone who doesn't care about the health and safety of children.
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Old 02-28-2014, 08:25 AM
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I. Just. Want. To. Do. My. Job.

Please can I do it without feeling the need to call the ACLU???? Apparently not.

I am at a loss about how to protest these changes in a professional manner. If you say anything against the regs you are portrayed as someone who doesn't care about the health and safety of children.
You have to fight what you don't like as a group. Power in numbers. We did years ago in Florida. When I get on my regular computer I'll post a link for you. This tablet is a pain.

Some of your new regs are done here and are no biggie. Will explain later.
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Old 02-28-2014, 08:29 AM
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Yes!!! I was talking to my husband and said- so we both have the day off, kids are in school and we decided to have relations... They knock on the door- I am supposed to stop and answer it!?! Really!?!
NannyD- you know I have!!

I can't get any providers I speak to to DO anything!!! They complain and agree with my concerns but no one wants to act! I can't afford to fight on my own-
So I am stuck deciding if I want to quit doing what I love or suck it up

Also - I called VOICE and talked to a dc rep... He didn't understand/know about the regs stating that providers can't have personal screen time and the reg about inspecting when we aren't operating. He argued with me on both! So he looked up the regs and re read them. On the change of when they can inspect he told me "it was just a wording change". Once he compared the two regs (old and new) he saw what I was talking about! I also asked him: is OCFS job to protect the basic health and safety of children? He answered yes. I said so according to them it is a basic health and safety issue if they are watching non educational screen time? I said IF it is a basic health and sacred concern WHY aren't families held to the same standard!?! He stated he has never thought of it like that. (Thank you nanny!!)
The VOICE board will apparently be bringing up/ reviewing my concerns at their next meeting. We shall see if anything happens!!
Scary fact is the VOICE board sat down with OCFS and negotiated the new regs with them!!! Not sure that is the representation I was told I'd get!! Also they basically heard from OCFS: we will not over step (we are not a wolf we are a sheep!) and VOICE agreed to the fact that they CAN over step but trust they won't!! I am pretty sure the sheep (providers) are going to get eaten by the wolf and by the mere fact that we CHOOSE to remain registered and licensed we have AGREED to it!
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Old 02-28-2014, 08:58 AM
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Yes!!! I was talking to my husband and said- so we both have the day off, kids are in school and we decided to have relations... They knock on the door- I am supposed to stop and answer it!?! Really!?!
NannyD- you know I have!!

I can't get any providers I speak to to DO anything!!! They complain and agree with my concerns but no one wants to act! I can't afford to fight on my own-
So I am stuck deciding if I want to quit doing what I love or suck it up

Also - I called VOICE and talked to a dc rep... He didn't understand/know about the regs stating that providers can't have personal screen time and the reg about inspecting when we aren't operating. He argued with me on both! So he looked up the regs and re read them. On the change of when they can inspect he told me "it was just a wording change". Once he compared the two regs (old and new) he saw what I was talking about! I also asked him: is OCFS job to protect the basic health and safety of children? He answered yes. I said so according to them it is a basic health and safety issue if they are watching non educational screen time? I said IF it is a basic health and sacred concern WHY aren't families held to the same standard!?! He stated he has never thought of it like that. (Thank you nanny!!)
The VOICE board will apparently be bringing up/ reviewing my concerns at their next meeting. We shall see if anything happens!!
Scary fact is the VOICE board sat down with OCFS and negotiated the new regs with them!!! Not sure that is the representation I was told I'd get!! Also they basically heard from OCFS: we will not over step (we are not a wolf we are a sheep!) and VOICE agreed to the fact that they CAN over step but trust they won't!! I am pretty sure the sheep (providers) are going to get eaten by the wolf and by the mere fact that we CHOOSE to remain registered and licensed we have AGREED to it!
PLEASE let me know what I can do!!!! (I can't even find a phone number for my VOICE rep.) I truly, truly love my job. I am willing to bend over backwards to protect the health and safety of the children I am entrusted to care for but I really feel like the state is trying to bend us too far (and not necessarily for health and safety!)
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Old 02-28-2014, 09:31 AM
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PLEASE let me know what I can do!!!! (I can't even find a phone number for my VOICE rep.) I truly, truly love my job. I am willing to bend over backwards to protect the health and safety of the children I am entrusted to care for but I really feel like the state is trying to bend us too far (and not necessarily for health and safety!)
I am in total agreement. I will sign any petitions, I will make phone calls. My voice WILL be heard (more so than it has already).


These regulations have NOTHING to do with the health and safety of the children. It's invasive, it's stressing out providers that are already in a high stress position, and is counter productive, since we now feel 'on guard' from the people who SHOULD be helping us do our job! (OCFS)
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Old 02-28-2014, 09:40 AM
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I'm curious how many NYS providers commented on the regs during the public comment period before they were passed. I did, and then I read the summary report afterward, where OCFS listed all the comments and basically told why they were going to ignore each one. Minor changes in wording only. It didn't seem that there were all that many comments made during that time period when it was open for our input. I read the objections by VOICE too. (And now I can't find that summary report any more.)
I wonder if any changes could/would be made at this point now that they're set to go into effect in May.
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Old 02-28-2014, 09:42 AM
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This is the VOICE # 1 (877) 483-2732
When I called I told the receptionist that I need to speak to someone about fighting the new regulations.
Maybe if we all call they will do something!

Does anyone know how to start an online petition? It's worth a try
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Old 02-28-2014, 09:48 AM
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I'm curious how many NYS providers commented on the regs during the public comment period before they were passed. I did, and then I read the summary report afterward, where OCFS listed all the comments and basically told why they were going to ignore each one. Minor changes in wording only. It didn't seem that there were all that many comments made during that time period when it was open for our input. I read the objections by VOICE too. (And now I can't find that summary report any more.)
I wonder if any changes could/would be made at this point now that they're set to go into effect in May.
Yes- I did see the provider count and no changes but not the VOICE section.
I honestly do not know what the chances are.
NannyD basically said our best bet is to have someone vollentarily get violated on the regs we don't like and fight it through court.
Also to reach media outlets... BUT how do you say: I want my cell phone and to not be inspected and come off sounding good???
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Old 02-28-2014, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by emmajo View Post
I'm curious how many NYS providers commented on the regs during the public comment period before they were passed. I did, and then I read the summary report afterward, where OCFS listed all the comments and basically told why they were going to ignore each one. Minor changes in wording only. It didn't seem that there were all that many comments made during that time period when it was open for our input. I read the objections by VOICE too. (And now I can't find that summary report any more.)
I wonder if any changes could/would be made at this point now that they're set to go into effect in May.
I responded with a resounding NO and so did a handful of other providers in my area, that I know of.
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Old 02-28-2014, 09:52 AM
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Hubby and I were talking last night about moving to new york and I was considering opening a daycare there. Now I am kinda thinking no after reading this.

I hope you ladies fight this.
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Old 02-28-2014, 09:53 AM
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That sounds nuts! the 4 inspections per year of your WHOLE house is crazy! I hope that doesn't come my way in MA
That is what I have had for years.

Where do you think my bad attitude comes from.... Wait until you get mandatory supply lists, mandatory curriculum Standards and QRIS.

Yes, I have had them open my bedroom closet door, go into my sheds, barn and trunk of my car before.

I assume it is because someone, somewhere, at some time, did something stupid. It is just the norm....

I used to feel violated, now I ask for decorating advice. I can't make enough money with only 2 kids. The State is covered in illegal daycare providers they can't afford to investigate now, but I would get busted in a nano-second because they already have my info.
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Old 02-28-2014, 09:53 AM
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Maybe start a petition here:

http://www.change.org
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Old 02-28-2014, 09:56 AM
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I responded with a resounding NO and so did a handful of other providers in my area, that I know of.
Me too!!!!
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Old 02-28-2014, 10:02 AM
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That is what I have had for years.

Where do you think my bad attitude comes from....

Yes, I have had them open my bedroom closet door, go into my sheds, barn and trunk of my car before.

I assume it is because someone, somewhere, at some time, did something stupid. It is just the norm....

I used to feel violated, now I ask for decorating advice.
We have 6 unannounced plus 1 announced visit from licensing per year. They only check the areas children use inside and outside. We also have 2 visits from heath/environment, 1 visit from fire marshall and 4 visits from food program per year. The rules are becoming more stringent everywhere. It is a trend I am not sure can be stopped. I am not sure someone did something stupid somewhere....I think powers that be, for some reason, feel they need to dictate what/how/when/where/ child care, particularly family child care, operates.
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Old 02-28-2014, 10:19 AM
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....I think powers that be, for some reason, feel they need to dictate what/how/when/where/ child care, particularly family child care, operates.
Maybe they were just "creating jobs" for inspectors???
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Old 02-28-2014, 10:30 AM
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That sounds nuts! the 4 inspections per year of your WHOLE house is crazy! I hope that doesn't come my way in MA
I say inspect me as much as you want - BUT be reasonable!!! Inspect all areas of my home that are used for daycare. Have high standards. Be by the book. I welcome and encourage it. HOWEVER, opening the drawer on a nightstand or opening a closet in a room that children have no access to is just plain ridiculous. Inspecting the trunk of a car? Come on!
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Old 02-28-2014, 10:36 AM
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I say inspect me as much as you want - BUT be reasonable!!! Inspect all areas of my home that are used for daycare. Have high standards. Be by the book. I welcome and encourage it. HOWEVER, opening the drawer on a nightstand or opening a closet in a room that children have no access to is just plain ridiculous. Inspecting the trunk of a car? Come on!
YES!!! . This is my point exactly! When I have children in my home I understand being inspected and having to follow regulations (tho I honestly wish it wasn't 4xs a year... I get stressed even tho I know I'm good). But in my private space and my private time?!? I'm not ok with!

I think I may put a sign on my door: closed for business! When I am... And locks on private rooms- lock them when I am working and refuse to open them.
If it comes down to it they can pull my license and ill fight it-

I'm also changing my personal phone to my hubbies name so they cannot access records based on me and daycare.

Any other ideas how we can "skirt the system" without breaking the rules??
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Old 02-28-2014, 10:42 AM
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my private time?!? I'm not ok with!

I think I may put a sign on my door: closed for business!
Any other ideas how we can "skirt the system" without breaking the rules??
If you give them your annual calendar of closings they will honor it.

Mine also is awesome to reply to emails. A quick note of any changes is quickly met with confirmation.
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Old 02-28-2014, 10:50 AM
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YES!!! . This is my point exactly! When I have children in my home I understand being inspected and having to follow regulations (tho I honestly wish it wasn't 4xs a year... I get stressed even tho I know I'm good). But in my private space and my private time?!? I'm not ok with!

I think I may put a sign on my door: closed for business! When I am... And locks on private rooms- lock them when I am working and refuse to open them.
If it comes down to it they can pull my license and ill fight it-

I'm also changing my personal phone to my hubbies name so they cannot access records based on me and daycare.

Any other ideas how we can "skirt the system" without breaking the rules??
OK....I know I totally whined about the hot chocolate in the other thread...LOL but now you have my blood boiling. LOL

You DO NOT have to let them in when you are closed. I dont know who told you that or who they think they are....LOL But if they pulled that at my house, they better have a sheriff and a court order with them.

My bedroom doors are locked during care. If they find in necessary to peek their head in to make sure I'm not harboring extra kids or criminals, fine. But they will NOT go through my dresser drawers without a search warrant.

I have ALWAYS had 4 inspections a year....plus my registrar is my food program specialist...so she is actually here 8 times a year. I have NO problem with HER. She is pretty wonderful actually.

Not all licensors and registrars know what they are talking about either, so be sure to do your homework. My friend is group so she has a different lady than I do. She is telling her all sorts of stuff that is WRONG, and quite frankly, doesn't know what she's even talking about. My friend had to get Albany involved to straighten her out.
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Old 02-28-2014, 11:43 AM
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For what it's worth, I freaked out as well, and turned my registration in in December. I am no longer providing registered care. A huge weight was lifted once my daycare was officially listed as closed on the OCFS website! Can I afford it? No, so I will probably have to find a second (actually, third because I do bookkeeping for my church) job and, to be honest, I was on the fence about closing since last June, so I can't say my decision was solely because of the new regs. They just solidified my decision. I am so much more relaxed though, knowing the state isn't going to randomly show up for an inspection! I was getting a lot of surprise inspections and was getting stressed. I do agree also that not all licensors interpret the regs the same way, so you have to be careful. For my initial inspection, prior to opening, my registrar told me I needed to add a second hand rail to my front stairs (my alternate egress door) because the regulation stated all stairways needed railings, and because that word was plural, I needed 2 railings (I had a railing on one side and it is only 4 stairs to the ground). That is my other big complaint...your licensor can interpret a reg one way and someone else could be told something entirely different.
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Old 02-28-2014, 11:51 AM
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Not all licensors and registrars know what they are talking about either, so be sure to do your homework. My friend is group so she has a different lady than I do. She is telling her all sorts of stuff that is WRONG, and quite frankly, doesn't know what she's even talking about. My friend had to get Albany involved to straighten her out.
Always ask for "where the rule is in the licensing book"....they will either show you or SHUTUP!
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Old 02-28-2014, 12:29 PM
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OK....I know I totally whined about the hot chocolate in the other thread...LOL but now you have my blood boiling. LOL

You DO NOT have to let them in when you are closed. I dont know who told you that or who they think they are....LOL But if they pulled that at my house, they better have a sheriff and a court order with them.

My bedroom doors are locked during care. If they find in necessary to peek their head in to make sure I'm not harboring extra kids or criminals, fine. But they will NOT go through my dresser drawers without a search warrant.

I have ALWAYS had 4 inspections a year....plus my registrar is my food program specialist...so she is actually here 8 times a year. I have NO problem with HER. She is pretty wonderful actually.

Not all licensors and registrars know what they are talking about either, so be sure to do your homework. My friend is group so she has a different lady than I do. She is telling her all sorts of stuff that is WRONG, and quite frankly, doesn't know what she's even talking about. My friend had to get Albany involved to straighten her out.
I read the hot chocolate thread . I feel the same way about no kiddie pools! lol
Yes- legally they can violate you if you do not let them in based off of your application hours. It is in the regs. I have confirmed it from numerous places.
Yes you can choose to fight it of it happens but bottom line is you agreed by being registered.
I have fought "personal opinion" violations so I am certainly not a yes sir kind of girl . I need to see it in the regs. Unfortunately this is there.
In my area registrar and inspectors are two diff people. There is no assurance that you will be inspected by the same person and not ever by your registrar. The turn over is really high so that adds to the change.
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Old 02-28-2014, 12:31 PM
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For what it's worth, I freaked out as well, and turned my registration in in December. I am no longer providing registered care. A huge weight was lifted once my daycare was officially listed as closed on the OCFS website! Can I afford it? No, so I will probably have to find a second (actually, third because I do bookkeeping for my church) job and, to be honest, I was on the fence about closing since last June, so I can't say my decision was solely because of the new regs. They just solidified my decision. I am so much more relaxed though, knowing the state isn't going to randomly show up for an inspection! I was getting a lot of surprise inspections and was getting stressed. I do agree also that not all licensors interpret the regs the same way, so you have to be careful. For my initial inspection, prior to opening, my registrar told me I needed to add a second hand rail to my front stairs (my alternate egress door) because the regulation stated all stairways needed railings, and because that word was plural, I needed 2 railings (I had a railing on one side and it is only 4 stairs to the ground). That is my other big complaint...your licensor can interpret a reg one way and someone else could be told something entirely different.
Yes - Nys definitely didn't do away with the vague regs... They frustrate me!
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Old 02-28-2014, 12:36 PM
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If you give them your annual calendar of closings they will honor it.

Mine also is awesome to reply to emails. A quick note of any changes is quickly met with confirmation.
That is a good idea. But I was told they may Honor any closing notification. BUT it is ok to not be home- yay me- I don't have to sit in my house on my days off!
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Old 02-28-2014, 12:56 PM
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For what it's worth, I freaked out as well, and turned my registration in in December. I am no longer providing registered care. A huge weight was lifted once my daycare was officially listed as closed on the OCFS website! Can I afford it? No, so I will probably have to find a second (actually, third because I do bookkeeping for my church) job and, to be honest, I was on the fence about closing since last June, so I can't say my decision was solely because of the new regs. They just solidified my decision. I am so much more relaxed though, knowing the state isn't going to randomly show up for an inspection! I was getting a lot of surprise inspections and was getting stressed. I do agree also that not all licensors interpret the regs the same way, so you have to be careful. For my initial inspection, prior to opening, my registrar told me I needed to add a second hand rail to my front stairs (my alternate egress door) because the regulation stated all stairways needed railings, and because that word was plural, I needed 2 railings (I had a railing on one side and it is only 4 stairs to the ground). That is my other big complaint...your licensor can interpret a reg one way and someone else could be told something entirely different.


It's worth a ton!!! I feel like no one else is on the same level. My problem is that I don't want to do anything else...
The thought of a typical 9-5 job almost freaks me out as much... .
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Old 02-28-2014, 01:24 PM
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Maybe start a petition here:

http://www.change.org
This is what did to get change in Iowa, that and I reached out here and didn't shut up! When you do the petition make it link to anybody and everybody that has anything to do with making regs in NY, they will get an email every time someone signs it and that gets annoying I'm sure. If my state went to 4 visits a year on top of food program visits (right now we have 1 unannounced and 4 from the food program) I would quit but really I think that's what they want. They don't want home providers and think children would be better off in centers. The problem is that a lot if parents can't afford centers, there's not enough center space and a lot if people will just go unregistered to avoid the regs but take more children than allowed. The result would be more unregulated daycare. We just started getting unannounced yearly inspections in my area and a lot if providers have went unregistered to avoid them (which is legal here) except a lot of them have a lot more children enrolled than what is legal. The result has been registered providers having a hard time filling their slots, they have to keep canceling trainings because there are not enough registered providers signing up to pay the instructors, and the food program has a lot less people enrolled. Here, our local Child Care Resource and Referell gives out unregistered providers numbers (all they have to do is ask to be put on the list) along with registered providers so when someone calls looking for daycare all it takes is one unregistered provider above me on the phone list who charges less and either has a high turnover or doesn't care how many kids she takes to make it so I never get a call. They've given my number out over 200 times in the last month and I've had 1 call. I have a nice daycare, charge average, have had very few clients that have left on bad terms and tons of clients who've been with me for years but I get no calls.
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Old 02-28-2014, 01:28 PM
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This is what did to get change in Iowa, that and I reached out here and didn't shut up! When you do the petition make it link to anybody and everybody that has anything to do with making regs in NY, they will get an email every time someone signs it and that gets annoying I'm sure. If my state went to 4 visits a year on top of food program visits (right now we have 1 unannounced and 4 from the food program) I would quit but really I think that's what they want. They don't want home providers and think children would be better off in centers. The problem is that a lot if parents can't afford centers, there's not enough center space and a lot if people will just go unregistered to avoid the regs but take more children than allowed. The result would be more unregulated daycare. We just started getting unannounced yearly inspections in my area and a lot if providers have went unregistered to avoid them (which is legal here) except a lot of them have a lot more children enrolled than what is legal. The result has been registered providers having a hard time filling their slots, they have to keep canceling trainings because there are not enough registered providers signing up to pay the instructors, and the food program has a lot less people enrolled. Here, our local Child Care Resource and Referell gives out unregistered providers numbers (all they have to do is ask to be put on the list) along with registered providers so when someone calls looking for daycare all it takes is one unregistered provider above me on the phone list who charges less and either has a high turnover or doesn't care how many kids she takes to make it so I never get a call. They've given my number out over 200 times in the last month and I've had 1 call. I have a nice daycare, charge average, have had very few clients that have left on bad terms and tons of clients who've been with me for years but I get no calls.
You sure did sistah. YOU made a difference. YOU changed things. One person can because YOU did.
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Old 02-28-2014, 02:09 PM
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You sure did sistah. YOU made a difference. YOU changed things. One person can because YOU did.
And YOU helped! I'm pretty sure that between my big mouth, your voice of reason and Terry's connections Iowa will have a hard time implementing regs that do not benefit the health and safety of children. Now if I could only get them to do mandatory registration constant with investigation and consequences for those who operate unregistered. I know the state is trying but I wish they would try harder. You may not agree with this one, I don't know, but I've seen huge new problems around here because of people just wanting to "watch a few kids" and be unregistered.
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Old 02-28-2014, 02:54 PM
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I read the hot chocolate thread . I feel the same way about no kiddie pools! lol
Yes- legally they can violate you if you do not let them in based off of your application hours. It is in the regs. I have confirmed it from numerous places.
Yes you can choose to fight it of it happens but bottom line is you agreed by being registered.
I have fought "personal opinion" violations so I am certainly not a yes sir kind of girl . I need to see it in the regs. Unfortunately this is there.
In my area registrar and inspectors are two diff people. There is no assurance that you will be inspected by the same person and not ever by your registrar. The turn over is really high so that adds to the change.
You know what. I'll be making some phone calls Monday now. Not that I don't believe you, just for my own satisfaction and to simply annoy someone sitting behind a desk playing candy crush.
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Old 02-28-2014, 03:55 PM
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You know what. I'll be making some phone calls Monday now. Not that I don't believe you, just for my own satisfaction and to simply annoy someone sitting behind a desk playing candy crush.
Wish you could tag people! Yes- make calls and see what you hear- please tho... Look up the reg and make sure they understand that it added "based on daycare application". That is the part that needs defining!
I would someone to tell me I'm wrong! But- VOICE and my registrar confirmed I wasn't
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Old 02-28-2014, 04:19 PM
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I think this has been the intent all along and now they're spelling it out. I remember a while back, going to a videoconference training and one of the "Get it Right" segments about regs had the situation where the provider had listed open hours available for Saturdays. One Saturday a furnace repair man was there - and she was supposed to have him sign in the visitor's log - even though no kids were present.
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Old 02-28-2014, 04:39 PM
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I think this has been the intent all along and now they're spelling it out. I remember a while back, going to a videoconference training and one of the "Get it Right" segments about regs had the situation where the provider had listed open hours available for Saturdays. One Saturday a furnace repair man was there - and she was supposed to have him sign in the visitor's log - even though no kids were present.
The old regs say while operating. So if you don't have kids there you aren't operating.
New regs say based on application hours.

To me that's a HUGE difference that they are trying to sneak by.

My guess- until providers start getting nailed on these changes no one will be really willing to do anything major. Maybe me included
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Old 02-28-2014, 05:14 PM
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Welp, I may as well chime in here myself. First off I am not yet familiar with ALL the new regulations, mostly just the ones I read on here.

Personally, They may not like this, but I am going to have parents sign off on what hours they need me. If for example my last kid leaves at 4:30, and that's the time that his mom has agreed to pick him up by, then as her car leaves the driveway.. my tv gets turned on, the outlet protectors get removed, computers plugged in and a pile of knives will be scattered throughout the kitchen as I prepare dinner... because as I see it, when my last kid leaves I am closed for the day. On the same idea as if a parent calls because they cant pick up til like 8pm or something (maybe their car blew up or something).. I am not depriving my own kids of a bit of tv because there is a day care kid still here.

As far as extra inspections, I am not worried about it. I look at the inspections differently than most. A lot of providers worry about being cited. I don't. If I am cited for something, I look at it as a possible safety issue I missed, and am actually happy that the licenser found it before a kid was hurt.

I also don't worry about them going into rooms that are not used for daycare. If this is true that they can, I will fill these areas with stuff that will embarrass them as much as it would myself. "Oh.. I know that's an awful lot of adult diapers and prophylactics, but there was a sale and I had a coupon"

So for now I am just chillin to see how everything plays out between now and when the rules actually kick in. In the meantime however, I have been invited to a meeting on March 25th at my local Family Enrichment office, where there will be OCFS licensors on hand to answer any and all questions that I may have. So by all means, if any of you have no such opportunity in your area to do this, send over some questions and I can ask on your behalf..
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Old 02-28-2014, 05:40 PM
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Welp, I may as well chime in here myself. First off I am not yet familiar with ALL the new regulations, mostly just the ones I read on here.

Personally, They may not like this, but I am going to have parents sign off on what hours they need me. If for example my last kid leaves at 4:30, and that's the time that his mom has agreed to pick him up by, then as her car leaves the driveway.. my tv gets turned on, the outlet protectors get removed, computers plugged in and a pile of knives will be scattered throughout the kitchen as I prepare dinner... because as I see it, when my last kid leaves I am closed for the day. On the same idea as if a parent calls because they cant pick up til like 8pm or something (maybe their car blew up or something).. I am not depriving my own kids of a bit of tv because there is a day care kid still here.

As far as extra inspections, I am not worried about it. I look at the inspections differently than most. A lot of providers worry about being cited. I don't. If I am cited for something, I look at it as a possible safety issue I missed, and am actually happy that the licenser found it before a kid was hurt.

I also don't worry about them going into rooms that are not used for daycare. If this is true that they can, I will fill these areas with stuff that will embarrass them as much as it would myself. "Oh.. I know that's an awful lot of adult diapers and prophylactics, but there was a sale and I had a coupon"

So for now I am just chillin to see how everything plays out between now and when the rules actually kick in. In the meantime however, I have been invited to a meeting on March 25th at my local Family Enrichment office, where there will be OCFS licensors on hand to answer any and all questions that I may have. So by all means, if any of you have no such opportunity in your area to do this, send over some questions and I can ask on your behalf..
I hear you-
I am going to the same meeting march 17th (I think it is) must be they are making rounds.
My understand of what your saying about the hours is: screw it. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Violations do matter- they matter to the parents who look you up on OCFS website and see a big RED YES! By your name. I have been at this for 15 years- it will effect you sooner or later. I have had violations- small over sites. I know how to keep kids safe... I understand not all do but that is why there should be BASIC health and safety regs... Beyond that is over stepping IMO. Beyond that feel free to say: if I were you I would... I will decide if its a good idea and makes sense and then choose to implement it or not- like the business owner I am
I may actually join in the embarrassing stuff in the room act tho!

I just don't think most people are as hung up on the: if I sign I agree part of the business. Which is absolutely their right
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Old 02-28-2014, 07:30 PM
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I do agree with the fact that violations do matter, its just that (and I apologize if I am offending anyone by saying this) I don't see that its too hard to comply. Now I am just starting out but the list of things that I had to do to get licensed didn't seem to be that difficult, and this is basically the same list I am going by to pass inspections. As long as my chemicals are out of reach, sharp objects are taken care of, floors clean, heat on in winter, snow cleared off steps, outlets covered, cots/blankets stored properly, paperwork up to date.. etc.. The way I see it they can come visit me every week if they want to. I would enjoy the company for a few minutes and after they don't find anything I would bid them a safe journey home and "see ya next week"

I agree that its a rather long list of things that need to be done their way.. but its definitely not impossible to do. If I can be in compliance the first time they visit, I shouldn't have any problem passing the next 20 times they are here too.

Of course as I mentioned above, if they show up at a time I don't have any kids here.. well.. I may fail miserably. If I am closed, then no kids are showing up, and if my last kid left for the day and its only 3pm.. well there is about a zero chance that anyone is dropping off that late, so I very well may have a few violations when my inspection is at 4:20.
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Old 02-28-2014, 08:15 PM
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I do agree with the fact that violations do matter, its just that (and I apologize if I am offending anyone by saying this) I don't see that its too hard to comply. Now I am just starting out but the list of things that I had to do to get licensed didn't seem to be that difficult, and this is basically the same list I am going by to pass inspections. As long as my chemicals are out of reach, sharp objects are taken care of, floors clean, heat on in winter, snow cleared off steps, outlets covered, cots/blankets stored properly, paperwork up to date.. etc.. The way I see it they can come visit me every week if they want to. I would enjoy the company for a few minutes and after they don't find anything I would bid them a safe journey home and "see ya next week"

I agree that its a rather long list of things that need to be done their way.. but its definitely not impossible to do. If I can be in compliance the first time they visit, I shouldn't have any problem passing the next 20 times they are here too.

Of course as I mentioned above, if they show up at a time I don't have any kids here.. well.. I may fail miserably. If I am closed, then no kids are showing up, and if my last kid left for the day and its only 3pm.. well there is about a zero chance that anyone is dropping off that late, so I very well may have a few violations when my inspection is at 4:20.
I apologize in advance if this sounds snarky, I really don't mean it to. I had a bad non-daycare related experience about an hour ago so I'm a tad miffed and I'm afraid it may come through while I'm typing this but please know it's unintentional.
What if you have a child who's physical expires and you know they have an appointment the next week so you let them come but that's when you get inspected? Ding! Violation. Of course you could refuse to take them but the truth is most insurance companies won't pay for another physical until it's been 12 months since the last one and a lot of doctors are booked months out. Ding! Health violation. What if they come at a time you are cooking and you have a knife on the counter (that you are using)? Ding! Safety Violation. What if your husband was working on a project and left tools sitting out in the yard but you didn't know because you hadn't went outside yet that day? What if you just finished painting and you took your smoke detector off of the wall to let the paint dry (and set it a few feet away on a shelf), the fact that the woodwork is taped off and the screw that holds the smoke detector in place isn't going to prevent them from giving you another safety violation. These are all real things that have happened to me or others that I know. A lot of states post these findings online and a lot of them don't give an explanation so all parents see are "health violation", "safety violation" etc. I had a friend who's daughter takes medication. She left an empty pill bottle on her counter upstairs by the phone (she uses her basement for daycare) so she would remember to call in the prescription and she was dinged. I've heard some inspectors say something is fine and others who interpret the reg differently. It is easy to do most of what the majority of states ask but keeping up with some of it is a task especially when you do childcare in your home and you have your own children and a husband that can inadvertently cause you to break a regulation. I got 100% on my last unannounced inspection but I know that all it takes is one little bitty thing to screw things up.
Thankfully I'm in Iowa and they haven't started posting providers inspection reports online yet but they plan to and if they do it like other states I will be out of this field quicker than I planned.
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Old 02-28-2014, 08:25 PM
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I do agree with the fact that violations do matter, its just that (and I apologize if I am offending anyone by saying this) I don't see that its too hard to comply. Now I am just starting out but the list of things that I had to do to get licensed didn't seem to be that difficult, and this is basically the same list I am going by to pass inspections. As long as my chemicals are out of reach, sharp objects are taken care of, floors clean, heat on in winter, snow cleared off steps, outlets covered, cots/blankets stored properly, paperwork up to date.. etc.. The way I see it they can come visit me every week if they want to. I would enjoy the company for a few minutes and after they don't find anything I would bid them a safe journey home and "see ya next week"

I agree that its a rather long list of things that need to be done their way.. but its definitely not impossible to do. If I can be in compliance the first time they visit, I shouldn't have any problem passing the next 20 times they are here too.

Of course as I mentioned above, if they show up at a time I don't have any kids here.. well.. I may fail miserably. If I am closed, then no kids are showing up, and if my last kid left for the day and its only 3pm.. well there is about a zero chance that anyone is dropping off that late, so I very well may have a few violations when my inspection is at 4:20.
I still apreciate where you are coming from . I am not offended . My life may be different than yours- the four other people living in my home may be diff than the number and personalities of those living with you. Maybe you have a self contained space in your home for daycare. Maybe you get a kick out of double checking medical records each week, maybe your more stringent than I am... I have no idea
All I know is I don't like agreeing to thing I don't agree with. I think the state over steps for me and has taken some giant steps with the new regs. I don't want people coming in my house on average every three months... I don't like them telling me I can be violated when I'm closed. I don't like them dictating my screen time, I don't like them saying what beverages I can serve...
I have also been at this quite a long time. I do what I do and I know I do it well. Some may see me as closed minded or less progressive- I see it as knowing that I know how to do my job better, for me, than some guy behind a desk. I want to be a self employed business owner- I am successful- people like what I offer and I have kept numerous kids safe since I was 12. That's my beef-
But I'm glad it works for you . I am going to have to make it work for me too because I have decided NYS won't get me out quite so easily.
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Old 02-28-2014, 08:31 PM
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I apologize in advance if this sounds snarky, I really don't mean it to. I had a bad non-daycare related experience about an hour ago so I'm a tad miffed and I'm afraid it may come through while I'm typing this but please know it's unintentional.
What if you have a child who's physical expires and you know they have an appointment the next week so you let them come but that's when you get inspected? Ding! Violation. Of course you could refuse to take them but the truth is most insurance companies won't pay for another physical until it's been 12 months since the last one and a lot of doctors are booked months out. Ding! Health violation. What if they come at a time you are cooking and you have a knife on the counter (that you are using)? Ding! Safety Violation. What if your husband was working on a project and left tools sitting out in the yard but you didn't know because you hadn't went outside yet that day? What if you just finished painting and you took your smoke detector off of the wall to let the paint dry (and set it a few feet away on a shelf), the fact that the woodwork is taped off and the screw that holds the smoke detector in place isn't going to prevent them from giving you another safety violation. These are all real things that have happened to me or others that I know. A lot of states post these findings online and a lot of them don't give an explanation so all parents see are "health violation", "safety violation" etc. I had a friend who's daughter takes medication. She left an empty pill bottle on her counter upstairs by the phone (she uses her basement for daycare) so she would remember to call in the prescription and she was dinged. I've heard some inspectors say something is fine and others who interpret the reg differently. It is easy to do most of what the majority of states ask but keeping up with some of it is a task especially when you do childcare in your home and you have your own children and a husband that can inadvertently cause you to break a regulation. I got 100% on my last unannounced inspection but I know that all it takes is one little bitty thing to screw things up.
Thankfully I'm in Iowa and they haven't started posting providers inspection reports online yet but they plan to and if they do it like other states I will be out of this field quicker than I planned.
Exactly!! I have had a posted safety violation because my husband left cough syrup out on a bathroom counter that the children would not be using. It was before I learned (read it was the lesson that taught me) to be very specific about where I wanted "approved areas" to be. I just didn't realize me saying: we don't go down there wasn't enough.
Or the fact that I didn't make a parent miss work just because their dr was being a pain about filling out updated imm.
Some things are learned with nothing but time .
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Old 02-28-2014, 08:56 PM
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I got dinged for leaves on my porch.

I live were there is a lot of trees. It wasnít a pile of leaves. There were maybe 2 dozen in the corners.

Me: You want me to sweep leaves all day or actually watch the kids?

Her: Itís a safety hazard.

Me: I hear you. Theyíre not covering the doorway or path. There are trees; the wind blows during the day.

Her: I know. You understand?

Me: No. I donít have any interest in debating leaves. My focus is the kids. Go for it.

Itís not the inspections that have some providers on edge. Itís some of the ridiculous expectations, various interpretations or inspecting personnel who feel they HAVE to ding you on something.

Usually when I tell other providers my guidelines for operating they say, ďNo thank you.Ē

I have monthly inspections. Then I have a yearly inspection where 4 to 5 entities come in to inspect. For the 1st time a stateís (New York) regulations seem to me. No way I would be comfortable with someone inspecting my entire home after an initial opening. I think my familyís private spaces such as bedrooms should be off limits. If I am closed for the day, I am not allowing anyone in.
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Old 02-28-2014, 09:14 PM
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I got dinged for leaves on my porch.

I live were there is a lot of trees. It wasnít a pile of leaves. There were maybe 2 dozen in the corners.

Me: You want me to sweep leaves all day or actually watch the kids?

Her: Itís a safety hazard.

Me: I hear you. Theyíre not covering the doorway or path. There are trees; the wind blows during the day.

Her: I know. You understand?

Me: No. I donít have any interest in debating leaves. My focus is the kids. Go for it.

Itís not the inspections that have some providers on edge. Itís some of the ridiculous expectations, various interpretations or inspecting personnel who feel they HAVE to ding you on something.

Usually when I tell other providers my guidelines for operating they say, ďNo thank you.Ē

I have monthly inspections. Then I have a yearly inspection where 4 to 5 entities come in to inspect. For the 1st time a stateís (New York) regulations seem to me. No way I would be comfortable with someone inspecting my entire home after an initial opening. I think my familyís private spaces such as bedrooms should be off limits. If I am closed for the day, I am not allowing anyone in.
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Old 03-01-2014, 03:57 AM
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I can't believe I'm saying this because I hate it that our inspectors can look in any room in our house but we have had providers here that have hidden children. It happens. So they made the rule for that reason. Mine does peek in every room but she doesn't go in and open closets or drawers or anything.

We have inspections every 3 months but we know what month. It is unannounced though. Someone said they would quit if they had that many inspections. It is a pain but not that bad but then we have a reasonable person doing the inspection. We also have to get relicensed once a year but that inspection is just like the other ones except for a little extra paperwork. We also have our inspections posted on the county licensing website. It is public record.

I agree with what someone else said. Anytime you are told you are breaking a rule ask them to show you on the actual ordinance which rule you are breaking. If you disagree be polite but ask them to put their reasoning in writing. I've never had to do that but a seasoned provider told us that it sometimes make them back down from an unreasonable stance like the situation with the leaves above. I would also take a picture of the porch with the leaves so there would be no questions as to how many leaves we were talking about. Some providers here haven't liked a decsion by their inspector so had to go above their heads to the supervisor and they won. So their word isn't always law. I'd be nice and polite but just get it documented to your satisfaction in case you need to go over their head.

Laurel
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Old 03-01-2014, 04:15 AM
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And see...I think I'm finding all of this so hard to digest BECAUSE my licensor is so good. She wouldn't come if I've told her I'm closed. She's never looked in my bedrooms as long as the door is locked. She would never write me up for a knife on the counter while I am there using it for meal prep. Leaves on the porch?! She wouldn't look twice.

I guess I should just count my blessings that she is a pretty cool lady.
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Old 03-01-2014, 04:55 AM
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I can't believe I'm saying this because I hate it that our inspectors can look in any room in our house but we have had providers here that have hidden children. It happens. So they made the rule for that reason. Mine does peek in every room but she doesn't go in and open closets or drawers or anything.

We have inspections every 3 months but we know what month. It is unannounced though. Someone said they would quit if they had that many inspections. It is a pain but not that bad but then we have a reasonable person doing the inspection. We also have to get relicensed once a year but that inspection is just like the other ones except for a little extra paperwork. We also have our inspections posted on the county licensing website. It is public record.

I agree with what someone else said. Anytime you are told you are breaking a rule ask them to show you on the actual ordinance which rule you are breaking. If you disagree be polite but ask them to put their reasoning in writing. I've never had to do that but a seasoned provider told us that it sometimes make them back down from an unreasonable stance like the situation with the leaves above. I would also take a picture of the porch with the leaves so there would be no questions as to how many leaves we were talking about. Some providers here haven't liked a decsion by their inspector so had to go above their heads to the supervisor and they won. So their word isn't always law. I'd be nice and polite but just get it documented to your satisfaction in case you need to go over their head.

Laurel
I’ve documented and have met with higher ups. It has been a retaliatory situation in my case. I have close to approximately 50+ documentation pages. Now what I’ve been complaining about & stating for over a year, others are seeing. Recently some inspections have been removed from my file because I wouldn’t sit back and just take it. Once this particular individual visited my home 15 times in one month.

Recently interim management suggested I go through the state to receive my license. Then I could eliminate dealing with the ridiculous.

I should add I am not in New York. I just understand why many providers have some concerns. I get inspections are important in an attempt to KEEP CHILDREN SAFE & weed out unsatisfactory providers. I just believe some personnel do not comprehend the regulations or abuse their positions.
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Old 03-01-2014, 04:56 AM
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OK.....this is what I was told.

This is the new reg:

2) Child day care providers must admit inspectors and other representatives of the Office onto the grounds and premises at any time during their hours of operation or while children are in care for the purpose of conducting inspections. Such inspectors and representatives must be given free access to the building or buildings used by the provider, staff and children, and to any records of the provider.

If I call her and tell her I am closed, then I am NOT operating during those hours.

I mean no disrespect to YOUR registrar, but this is the BS I don't like about them being allowed to interpret the regs any way they see fit.

She also said access to the building means YES, looking in the room, but not going through personal belongings such as underwear drawers.
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Old 03-01-2014, 05:43 AM
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I do agree with the fact that violations do matter, its just that (and I apologize if I am offending anyone by saying this) I don't see that its too hard to comply. Now I am just starting out but the list of things that I had to do to get licensed didn't seem to be that difficult, and this is basically the same list I am going by to pass inspections. As long as my chemicals are out of reach, sharp objects are taken care of, floors clean, heat on in winter, snow cleared off steps, outlets covered, cots/blankets stored properly, paperwork up to date.. etc.. The way I see it they can come visit me every week if they want to. I would enjoy the company for a few minutes and after they don't find anything I would bid them a safe journey home and "see ya next week"

I agree that its a rather long list of things that need to be done their way.. but its definitely not impossible to do. If I can be in compliance the first time they visit, I shouldn't have any problem passing the next 20 times they are here too.

Of course as I mentioned above, if they show up at a time I don't have any kids here.. well.. I may fail miserably. If I am closed, then no kids are showing up, and if my last kid left for the day and its only 3pm.. well there is about a zero chance that anyone is dropping off that late, so I very well may have a few violations when my inspection is at 4:20.

I bust my butt keeping things clean, safe, and within regulations here. Even so, life is not perfect and it doesn't take much to get cited.

Here are a few examples where, despite all of the prep. in the world, I still got cited.

#1: House is clean & safe. DCK's are here & we are doing our thing. Lic. shows up (let me interject that I really respect & like my lic. rep. She is very by the book and isn't afraid to say, "Let me check with my supervisor" if she isn't 100% sure about something.) and does an inspection. Well, my two boys had been repairing their skateboards in the backyard and left a can of WD-40 out. Even though I clearly would have seen it and picked it up when we got outside I got cited for it.

#2: All trash cans indoors and out must have lids on them. The lid blew off my outdoor trash can & I didn't know. Cited.

#3: DCB has a medical condition and I had to call an ambulance for him. The EMT wanted his information for the doctor at the hospital and I gave him DCB's info from file. You have to inform lic. if you have to call an ambulance for a child and they come do an inspection. I got cited for not having DCB's paperwork even though it was less than 24 hrs. since he got sick, he wasn't in attendance that day, and I explained why I didn't have his info. (This was when we were first learning about DCB's condition. Now I keep copies in case i have to call 911 and they need info to take with them.)

#4 All children must have current physicals on record. There is no grace period giving parents time to get the physical done - if the physical expires on March 1, you have to have a physical in their file on or before March 1st. However, as someone else already pointed out, insurance companies will not pay for a physical until it is one year and a day after their last one. Then the doctor may not have an opening or, even if you are lucky enough to snag an appointment this day, the doctor often has to reschedule. So do you tell a parent that their perfectly healthy child has to be excluded from care until they are able to get a physical (which they might have to wait up to two weeks for an opening)? Ding.

Again, i don't think anyone is saying that they are against the inspections themselves. It is how they are done. It is the unrealistic expectations. It is the regulations that are unenforceable unless our privacy is seriously, seriously invaded.
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Old 03-01-2014, 05:57 AM
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Again, i don't think anyone is saying that they are against the inspections themselves. It is how they are done. It is the unrealistic expectations. It is the regulations that are unenforceable unless our privacy is seriously, seriously invaded.
DING! DING! DING!
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Old 03-01-2014, 06:05 AM
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I bust my butt keeping things clean, safe, and within regulations here. Even so, life is not perfect and it doesn't take much to get cited.

Here are a few examples where, despite all of the prep. in the world, I still got cited.

#1: House is clean & safe. DCK's are here & we are doing our thing. Lic. shows up (let me interject that I really respect & like my lic. rep. She is very by the book and isn't afraid to say, "Let me check with my supervisor" if she isn't 100% sure about something.) and does an inspection. Well, my two boys had been repairing their skateboards in the backyard and left a can of WD-40 out. Even though I clearly would have seen it and picked it up when we got outside I got cited for it.

#2: All trash cans indoors and out must have lids on them. The lid blew off my outdoor trash can & I didn't know. Cited.

#3: DCB has a medical condition and I had to call an ambulance for him. The EMT wanted his information for the doctor at the hospital and I gave him DCB's info from file. You have to inform lic. if you have to call an ambulance for a child and they come do an inspection. I got cited for not having DCB's paperwork even though it was less than 24 hrs. since he got sick, he wasn't in attendance that day, and I explained why I didn't have his info. (This was when we were first learning about DCB's condition. Now I keep copies in case i have to call 911 and they need info to take with them.)

#4 All children must have current physicals on record. There is no grace period giving parents time to get the physical done - if the physical expires on March 1, you have to have a physical in their file on or before March 1st. However, as someone else already pointed out, insurance companies will not pay for a physical until it is one year and a day after their last one. Then the doctor may not have an opening or, even if you are lucky enough to snag an appointment this day, the doctor often has to reschedule. So do you tell a parent that their perfectly healthy child has to be excluded from care until they are able to get a physical (which they might have to wait up to two weeks for an opening)? Ding.
Again, i don't think anyone is saying that they are against the inspections themselves. It is how they are done. It is the unrealistic expectations. It is the regulations that are unenforceable unless our privacy is seriously, seriously invaded.
OK....I am not trying to argue with any of you...I hope you all realize that. My frustration is with how each registrar interprets the regs differently.

The reg is:

(1) Other than children who are enrolled in kindergarten or a higher grade, no child may be accepted for care in a child care program unless the program has been furnished with a written statement signed by a health care provider verifying that the child is able to participate in child day care and currently appears to be free from contagious or communicable diseases. A child’s medical statement must have been completed within the 12 months preceding the date of enrollment.

You DO NOT need a new physical every year. You only need ONE physical upon enrollment, and can not be more than a year old at that time. No where does it say the PHYSICAL has to be updated yearly.

Immunizations need to be up to date, yes, but that does not require a full physical every year. I have my parents give me a new copy of the immunization record every time they go get a new one.
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Old 03-01-2014, 06:55 AM
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Iíve documented and have met with higher ups. It has been a retaliatory situation in my case. I have close to approximately 50+ documentation pages. Now what Iíve been complaining about & stating for over a year, others are seeing. Recently some inspections have been removed from my file because I wouldnít sit back and just take it. Once this particular individual visited my home 15 times in one month.

Recently interim management suggested I go through the state to receive my license. Then I could eliminate dealing with the ridiculous.

I should add I am not in New York. I just understand why many providers have some concerns. I get inspections are important in an attempt to KEEP CHILDREN SAFE & weed out unsatisfactory providers. I just believe some personnel do not comprehend the regulations or abuse their positions.
Oh I agree that some abuse their positions. That is a rough situation to be in. Luckily I've never had that experience.

In our case, we have a network of providers who formed an association and we 'fight' things as a group. Once we went to a city council meeting and very professionally stated our case and stuck up for some other providers.

Laurel
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Old 03-01-2014, 07:06 AM
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OK.....this is what I was told.

This is the new reg:

2) Child day care providers must admit inspectors and other representatives of the Office onto the grounds and premises at any time during their hours of operation or while children are in care for the purpose of conducting inspections. Such inspectors and representatives must be given free access to the building or buildings used by the provider, staff and children, and to any records of the provider.

If I call her and tell her I am closed, then I am NOT operating during those hours.

I mean no disrespect to YOUR registrar, but this is the BS I don't like about them being allowed to interpret the regs any way they see fit.

She also said access to the building means YES, looking in the room, but not going through personal belongings such as underwear drawers.
That is the way it is here. If I am going to be closed a day during my inspection month I call so she doesn't make a trip to my house. I figure that would tick her off and who wants to tick her off.

Back in the day, I used to call my provider friend and whine about the unfair things. She set me straight. She said just pay attention to what the particular monitor (what they are called here) seems to care about and make sure that is done whether you like it or not. So mine cares about the sign in sheet, the mat on the diaper changing table to see that is has no little tears in it, etc. She could care less if there are toys all over the floor (the other one cared about that), etc. So that saved me a lot of needless stress. I actually keep a brand new diaper changing pad behind the chest I use to change the children so I KNOW there are no teeney tears in it. I roll the one up I really use and put it in a drawer of the changing table. I put the new one out when I hear a knock at the door. Things like that....

Personally on the hot chocolate thing I would tell the parents about the regulation and when we all agreed it was ridiculous, I'd ask them to each chip in a few cents to buy a box of the packets. Then I'd write each child's name on a packet so I could honestly say the parent supplied it. Problem solved.

Laurel
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Old 03-01-2014, 07:12 AM
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I bust my butt keeping things clean, safe, and within regulations here. Even so, life is not perfect and it doesn't take much to get cited.

Here are a few examples where, despite all of the prep. in the world, I still got cited.

#1: House is clean & safe. DCK's are here & we are doing our thing. Lic. shows up (let me interject that I really respect & like my lic. rep. She is very by the book and isn't afraid to say, "Let me check with my supervisor" if she isn't 100% sure about something.) and does an inspection. Well, my two boys had been repairing their skateboards in the backyard and left a can of WD-40 out. Even though I clearly would have seen it and picked it up when we got outside I got cited for it.

#2: All trash cans indoors and out must have lids on them. The lid blew off my outdoor trash can & I didn't know. Cited.

#3: DCB has a medical condition and I had to call an ambulance for him. The EMT wanted his information for the doctor at the hospital and I gave him DCB's info from file. You have to inform lic. if you have to call an ambulance for a child and they come do an inspection. I got cited for not having DCB's paperwork even though it was less than 24 hrs. since he got sick, he wasn't in attendance that day, and I explained why I didn't have his info. (This was when we were first learning about DCB's condition. Now I keep copies in case i have to call 911 and they need info to take with them.)

#4 All children must have current physicals on record. There is no grace period giving parents time to get the physical done - if the physical expires on March 1, you have to have a physical in their file on or before March 1st. However, as someone else already pointed out, insurance companies will not pay for a physical until it is one year and a day after their last one. Then the doctor may not have an opening or, even if you are lucky enough to snag an appointment this day, the doctor often has to reschedule. So do you tell a parent that their perfectly healthy child has to be excluded from care until they are able to get a physical (which they might have to wait up to two weeks for an opening)? Ding.

Again, i don't think anyone is saying that they are against the inspections themselves. It is how they are done. It is the unrealistic expectations. It is the regulations that are unenforceable unless our privacy is seriously, seriously invaded.
Now hopefully no one here thinks I am trying to be argumentative or difficult. I was just licensed this past January and am more interested in being clear on these things before they become an issue for me. I do also feel that is depends on your individual licensor as to how strict they are. I sincerely do apologize if I seem to be arguing with anyone as I truly am not.

Now with this being said, number 1 above wouldn't happen here. I have 3 of my own kids (11, 6 and 4) and a wife who leaves for work early in the am. (leaves hair dryer and curling iron out sometimes) When I get up every morning, I pour myself a good sized mug of coffee, and spend 10 minutes walking around the house (and outside if its nice out).. picking up and taking care of things that may be in violation and locking doors to non daycare areas. I consider this part of my job and it rarely takes too much effort. The lid on the outdoor trash can might happen here if it blew off during the day as I would have replaced it during my morning inspection.. but if I were cited for it on a day that's obviously windy enough to blow it off.. welp, I would definitely fight that one.

Number 3 above.. The way I understand the regulation, and the way my licensor (and the class I took for heath/safety covered this too) explained it to me is that every child in my care is to have 2 blue cards. One to be filed on the premises and the other to be with the child. If we for example go to the park, I would take with us my first aid kit and in this kit is a copy of every child's blue card. So with that same idea in mind, if a child goes by ambulance to the hospital, I also send the blue card from my first aid kit with them. I still however have another one here on file so if I were inspected the next day its here.

Number 4 above.... Physicals.. I completely understand that doctors can quite often be booked up. I also have dealt with insurance companies before too in regard to the one year + 1 day since the last physical. I checked the regulation and all I could find was 417.11(e) that a physical must be done before accepting them into care. This being the case, they get it before they are registered here and attend their first day, or they don't start until its done. (immunizations are different as if the appointment is made to have it done they can start 417.11(e)(1))

You mentioned above that "if it expires on March 1st".. and I am honestly not clear by reading the regulation how often a new physical needs to be done to keep them in care. I am assuming its no more often than once a year. Now that being said.. If a child is enrolled here, and their physical expires on March 1st.. Why cant the parent call and make the appointment to have it done 2 or 3 months earlier? If its because of an insurance thing, then make the appointment 366 days after the last one.. but don't wait until March 28th and complain that the "doctor is booked through April and cant get my child in"

I did also find in the regulations that its the day care providers responsibility to keep track of immunizations and when they are due, and to remind the parents a minimum of 30 days prior to this. I know we discussing physicals and not immunizations but I figure close enough. I personally have no problem telling a parent a couple months in advance that if their child isn't up to date on these things in 60-90 days from now that they will be excluded. If the parent doesn't follow through and make the appt. in time, then its not my problem if the child cant be here.
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Old 03-01-2014, 07:17 AM
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OK.....this is what I was told.

This is the new reg:

2) Child day care providers must admit inspectors and other representatives of the Office onto the grounds and premises at any time during their hours of operation or while children are in care for the purpose of conducting inspections. Such inspectors and representatives must be given free access to the building or buildings used by the provider, staff and children, and to any records of the provider.

If I call her and tell her I am closed, then I am NOT operating during those hours.

I mean no disrespect to YOUR registrar, but this is the BS I don't like about them being allowed to interpret the regs any way they see fit.

She also said access to the building means YES, looking in the room, but not going through personal belongings such as underwear drawers.
PLEASE- READ the new regulation. That is NOT what it says. And maybe who you spoke to is the same person who does your inspections. For me that is not the case.
The new inspections are based, as stated, on application hours.
What happens when you have a new person and they decide to go by what is stated???
If your fine with that GREAT! But don't for one second think because one person told you what is in the new regs isn't accurate that it can't be done or won't be done-
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Old 03-01-2014, 07:25 AM
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PLEASE- READ the new regulation. That is NOT what it says. And maybe who you spoke to is the same person who does your inspections. For me that is not the case.
The new inspections are based, as stated, on application hours.
What happens when you have a new person and they decide to go by what is stated???
If your fine with that GREAT! But don't for one second think because one person told you what is in the new regs isn't accurate that it can't be done or won't be done-
Can you show me the new reg then and what it does say? Because that is what it says in my set of new regs I was given.
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Old 03-01-2014, 07:25 AM
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PLEASE- READ the new regulation. That is NOT what it says. And maybe who you spoke to is the same person who does your inspections. For me that is not the case.
The new inspections are based, as stated, on application hours.
What happens when you have a new person and they decide to go by what is stated???
If your fine with that GREAT! But don't for one second think because one person told you what is in the new regs isn't accurate that it can't be done or won't be done-
How often are you re-licensed?

If it is yearly, couldn't you just submit your hours of operation for THAT year to licensing so that you will have designated closed days where you know that licensing isn't going to come for an inspection?

Also, if one person told Melskids something what makes that person's word any more the truth than what your one person told you? kwim?

Sounds like you all need ONE agency or entity to interpret the rules because if they are all being read and understood differently, there is no way ANY of you will ever meet the requirements then. Especially those that have different inspectors every time you have an inspection.

I think that is where everyone needs to start. The new regulations may or may not be an issue, it is the interpretation that seems to be the problem.

WHO in New York is in the position to have the ultimate authority over regulation clarification/interpretation?

On a side note, I am so sorry you are all having to deal with this. ((hugs))
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Old 03-01-2014, 07:35 AM
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Now hopefully no one here thinks I am trying to be argumentative or difficult. I was just licensed this past January and am more interested in being clear on these things before they become an issue for me. I do also feel that is depends on your individual licensor as to how strict they are. I sincerely do apologize if I seem to be arguing with anyone as I truly am not.

Now with this being said, number 1 above wouldn't happen here. I have 3 of my own kids (11, 6 and 4) and a wife who leaves for work early in the am. (leaves hair dryer and curling iron out sometimes) When I get up every morning, I pour myself a good sized mug of coffee, and spend 10 minutes walking around the house (and outside if its nice out).. picking up and taking care of things that may be in violation and locking doors to non daycare areas. I consider this part of my job and it rarely takes too much effort. The lid on the outdoor trash can might happen here if it blew off during the day as I would have replaced it during my morning inspection.. but if I were cited for it on a day that's obviously windy enough to blow it off.. welp, I would definitely fight that one.

Number 3 above.. The way I understand the regulation, and the way my licensor (and the class I took for heath/safety covered this too) explained it to me is that every child in my care is to have 2 blue cards. One to be filed on the premises and the other to be with the child. If we for example go to the park, I would take with us my first aid kit and in this kit is a copy of every child's blue card. So with that same idea in mind, if a child goes by ambulance to the hospital, I also send the blue card from my first aid kit with them. I still however have another one here on file so if I were inspected the next day its here.

Number 4 above.... Physicals.. I completely understand that doctors can quite often be booked up. I also have dealt with insurance companies before too in regard to the one year + 1 day since the last physical. I checked the regulation and all I could find was 417.11(e) that a physical must be done before accepting them into care. This being the case, they get it before they are registered here and attend their first day, or they don't start until its done. (immunizations are different as if the appointment is made to have it done they can start 417.11(e)(1))

You mentioned above that "if it expires on March 1st".. and I am honestly not clear by reading the regulation how often a new physical needs to be done to keep them in care. I am assuming its no more often than once a year. Now that being said.. If a child is enrolled here, and their physical expires on March 1st.. Why cant the parent call and make the appointment to have it done 2 or 3 months earlier? If its because of an insurance thing, then make the appointment 366 days after the last one.. but don't wait until March 28th and complain that the "doctor is booked through April and cant get my child in"

I did also find in the regulations that its the day care providers responsibility to keep track of immunizations and when they are due, and to remind the parents a minimum of 30 days prior to this. I know we discussing physicals and not immunizations but I figure close enough. I personally have no problem telling a parent a couple months in advance that if their child isn't up to date on these things in 60-90 days from now that they will be excluded. If the parent doesn't follow through and make the appt. in time, then its not my problem if the child cant be here.
We were never told to have two copies but that is a good idea. I have a copy of the Emergency Medical Authorization in my stroller. Once I did have to call 911 and have child taken by ambulance and gave them the original. I thought then that I should have a copy so then I got some. Luckily, no inspection that day.

I put stickers on my calendar before something is due so then when I turn to a new month I can see ahead and remind parents ahead of time what they need.

Laurel
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Old 03-01-2014, 07:41 AM
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How often are you re-licensed?

If it is yearly, couldn't you just submit your hours of operation for THAT year to licensing so that you will have designated closed days where you know that licensing isn't going to come for an inspection?

Also, if one person told Melskids something what makes that person's word any more the truth than what your one person told you? kwim?

Sounds like you all need ONE agency or entity to interpret the rules because if they are all being read and understood differently, there is no way ANY of you will ever meet the requirements then. Especially those that have different inspectors every time you have an inspection.


I think that is where everyone needs to start. The new regulations may or may not be an issue, it is the interpretation that seems to be the problem.

WHO in New York is in the position to have the ultimate authority over regulation clarification/interpretation?

On a side note, I am so sorry you are all having to deal with this. ((hugs))
My whole point.

My information came straight from someone in Albany. So someone's got their wires crossed somewhere. LOL

My whole point is...none of us should take this sitting down.

Question every thing.
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Old 03-01-2014, 07:50 AM
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Sorry double post.
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Old 03-01-2014, 07:53 AM
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PLEASE- READ the new regulation. That is NOT what it says. And maybe who you spoke to is the same person who does your inspections. For me that is not the case.
The new inspections are based, as stated, on application hours.
What happens when you have a new person and they decide to go by what is stated???
If your fine with that GREAT! But don't for one second think because one person told you what is in the new regs isn't accurate that it can't be done or won't be done-


This is right from the OCFS website:

417.15 (10) A family day care home must admit inspectors and other representatives of the Office onto the grounds and premises at any time during the hours of operation of the home. Such inspectors and representatives must be given free access to the building, the caregivers, the children and any records of the home. A family day care home must cooperate with inspectors and other representatives of the Office in regard to any inspections or investigations that are conducted by the Office or its representatives. A family day care home also must cooperate with local Child Protective Services' Staff conducting any investigation of alleged child abuse or maltreatment;


It clearly states "during the hours of operation"



When I am on vacation or closed there ARE NO hours of operation.

NO WHERE does it state "application hours".

Familycare71, I'm not trying to argue with you, or prove YOU wrong. Please don't take it that way.
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Old 03-01-2014, 08:02 AM
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This is right from the OCFS website:

417.15 (10) A family day care home must admit inspectors and other representatives of the Office onto the grounds and premises at any time during the hours of operation of the home. Such inspectors and representatives must be given free access to the building, the caregivers, the children and any records of the home. A family day care home must cooperate with inspectors and other representatives of the Office in regard to any inspections or investigations that are conducted by the Office or its representatives. A family day care home also must cooperate with local Child Protective Services' Staff conducting any investigation of alleged child abuse or maltreatment;


It clearly states "during the hours of operation"



When I am on vacation or closed there ARE NO hours of operation.


NO WHERE does it state "application hours".

Familycare71, I'm not trying to argue with you, or prove YOU wrong. Please don't take it that way.
...right after the rule you posted it says

417.15 (12) The family day care home must report to the Office: any change affecting, or which reasonably might be expected to affect, those portions of the building in which the program is located or which are used for the children's egress in the case of emergency; any change in family composition; and any other change that would place the home out of compliance with applicable regulations;

which I read as simply informing the licensing agency as to vacations and closed days ect that maybe weren't planed as non-operating days/hours so that licensing reps and/or inspectors don't show up on those days.

I also haven't found any wording that says that the inspectors will check/search any part of the home that is not used for child care. Other than the peeking in a room like Mel said her inspector does, I can't see how any inspector would take that rules as needing to search through lingerie drawers etc.
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Old 03-01-2014, 08:10 AM
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...right after the rule you posted it says

417.15 (12) The family day care home must report to the Office: any change affecting, or which reasonably might be expected to affect, those portions of the building in which the program is located or which are used for the children's egress in the case of emergency; any change in family composition; and any other change that would place the home out of compliance with applicable regulations;

which I read as simply informing the licensing agency as to vacations and closed days ect that maybe weren't planed as non-operating days/hours so that licensing reps and/or inspectors don't show up on those days.

I also haven't found any wording that says that the inspectors will check/search any part of the home that is not used for child care. Other than the peeking in a room like Mel said her inspector does, I can't see how any inspector would take that rules as needing to search through lingerie drawers etc.
Exactly. All I have to do is either email them my days off in advance, or call her first thing in the morning if I close due to illness.

I'm not arguing with anyone....please don't take it that way. My whole point is no one has to take this crud sitting down. Registrars are only human, and can very easily interpret rules wrong, or to their own benefit. I wouldnt tolerate that for a second.
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Old 03-01-2014, 08:11 AM
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This is right from the OCFS website:

417.15 (10) A family day care home must admit inspectors and other representatives of the Office onto the grounds and premises at any time during the hours of operation of the home. Such inspectors and representatives must be given free access to the building, the caregivers, the children and any records of the home. A family day care home must cooperate with inspectors and other representatives of the Office in regard to any inspections or investigations that are conducted by the Office or its representatives. A family day care home also must cooperate with local Child Protective Services' Staff conducting any investigation of alleged child abuse or maltreatment;


It clearly states "during the hours of operation"



When I am on vacation or closed there ARE NO hours of operation.

NO WHERE does it state "application hours".

Familycare71, I'm not trying to argue with you, or prove YOU wrong. Please don't take it that way.
I WANT to be wrong . I do not take it that way at all! This is why I posted the thread- for discussion and views.
I found the following on the OCFS website under the new regs that go into effect May 1st. I think you are looking at the old regulations that are in effect until May 1st.

(10) (i) A family day care home must admit inspectors and other representatives of the Office onto the grounds and premises at any time during the hours of operation as documented with the Office on the application for family day care. Such inspectors and representatives must be given free access to the building, the caregivers, employees and volunteers, the children and any program records.
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Old 03-01-2014, 08:17 AM
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417.15 10 i.
Must admit inspectors and other reps of office onto grounds and premises at anytime during the hours of operation GIVEN TO OFFICE ON APPLICATION OF FAMILY DAYCARE.
Given FREE ACCESS TO BUILDING, care givers, employers, volunteers, the children and any records.

The key is it is now based on when you have told them you may operate NOT when you are operating. I have verified this with VOICE and my registrar. I asked my registrar if I email him to tell him I'm closed will they show up. His response was: well- they probably wouldn't because they want to see kids in care. But if they don't check the computer first they may. But- those are the fastest inspections because you don't have to manage kids just show them every thing. If you aren't home that's ok - they will just leave a sorry to miss you note.

And before anyone says- just don't answer the door... On my days off I don't know if I'm willing to hide in my own house!!! And what if I'm outside!?! Clearly they can come around back, etc...
Not to beat a dead horse, but 417.15 10 i isn't even a regulation. Where did you get that number from?
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Old 03-01-2014, 08:18 AM
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Here is the link for the regs that are suppose to go into effect in May 2014 that Familycare71 is referring to.

http://ocfs.ny.gov/main/legal/Regulatory/final/

Although they have added the wording about hours of operation according to the application, the rule following about notifying the office about any changes remains the same.

THAT would be how to work around or within the guidelines.

Just notify the office of any operating hours changes.
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Old 03-01-2014, 08:18 AM
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All due respect as I don't want to be argumentative or right .
Above you will see building- that is my entire home. MAYBE they will peek in rooms- they CAN search my underwear drawer. That's my only point.
I used to be able to contact my inspector because that person was also my registrar- so I understand some of you can do that. I cannot. My inspector varies. They are from a diff office than my registrar. So yes- I can call my registrar or e-mail and say I'm closed but it doesn't assure I won't be inspected based on the hours on my app.
I can adjust my hours on my app as start and close times vary but that doesn't account for early pick ups, late drop offs, days I close, etc...

I truly appreciate everyone's perspective and thoughts- no worries ill take it the wrong way because I am seeking that very thing
That's why I love this group! Diff ways of seeing and dealing and hopefully I will learn some things - which I have already on this post
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Old 03-01-2014, 08:20 AM
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Here is the link for the regs that are suppose to go into effect in May 2014 that Familycare71 is referring to.

http://ocfs.ny.gov/main/legal/Regulatory/final/

Although they have added the wording about hours of operation according to the application, the rule following about notifying the office about any changes remains the same.

THAT would be how to work around or within the guidelines.

Just notify the office of any operating hours changes.
Thank you!!! I didn't link
For me the notification won't always work- but you can bet they will know every time I close even 5 min early so when I say- sorry I'm closed come back I can add: I notified my registrar
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Old 03-01-2014, 08:21 AM
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Not to beat a dead horse, but 417.15 10 i isn't even a regulation. Where did you get that number from?
It is actually 417.15(b)(10)(i)
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Old 03-01-2014, 08:23 AM
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Now hopefully no one here thinks I am trying to be argumentative or difficult. I was just licensed this past January and am more interested in being clear on these things before they become an issue for me. I do also feel that is depends on your individual licensor as to how strict they are. I sincerely do apologize if I seem to be arguing with anyone as I truly am not.

Now with this being said, number 1 above wouldn't happen here. I have 3 of my own kids (11, 6 and 4) and a wife who leaves for work early in the am. (leaves hair dryer and curling iron out sometimes) When I get up every morning, I pour myself a good sized mug of coffee, and spend 10 minutes walking around the house (and outside if its nice out).. picking up and taking care of things that may be in violation and locking doors to non daycare areas. I consider this part of my job and it rarely takes too much effort. The lid on the outdoor trash can might happen here if it blew off during the day as I would have replaced it during my morning inspection.. but if I were cited for it on a day that's obviously windy enough to blow it off.. welp, I would definitely fight that one.

Number 3 above.. The way I understand the regulation, and the way my licensor (and the class I took for heath/safety covered this too) explained it to me is that every child in my care is to have 2 blue cards. One to be filed on the premises and the other to be with the child. If we for example go to the park, I would take with us my first aid kit and in this kit is a copy of every child's blue card. So with that same idea in mind, if a child goes by ambulance to the hospital, I also send the blue card from my first aid kit with them. I still however have another one here on file so if I were inspected the next day its here.

Number 4 above.... Physicals.. I completely understand that doctors can quite often be booked up. I also have dealt with insurance companies before too in regard to the one year + 1 day since the last physical. I checked the regulation and all I could find was 417.11(e) that a physical must be done before accepting them into care. This being the case, they get it before they are registered here and attend their first day, or they don't start until its done. (immunizations are different as if the appointment is made to have it done they can start 417.11(e)(1))

You mentioned above that "if it expires on March 1st".. and I am honestly not clear by reading the regulation how often a new physical needs to be done to keep them in care. I am assuming its no more often than once a year. Now that being said.. If a child is enrolled here, and their physical expires on March 1st.. Why cant the parent call and make the appointment to have it done 2 or 3 months earlier? If its because of an insurance thing, then make the appointment 366 days after the last one.. but don't wait until March 28th and complain that the "doctor is booked through April and cant get my child in"

I did also find in the regulations that its the day care providers responsibility to keep track of immunizations and when they are due, and to remind the parents a minimum of 30 days prior to this. I know we discussing physicals and not immunizations but I figure close enough. I personally have no problem telling a parent a couple months in advance that if their child isn't up to date on these things in 60-90 days from now that they will be excluded. If the parent doesn't follow through and make the appt. in time, then its not my problem if the child cant be here.
I too check around inside and out everyday before kids arrive...what happens on those bright sunny days when your oldest kiddo might be out in the yard after you have done your walk through but before you brought the DCK's out? Maybe he/she needed a little WD-40 for that squeaky wheel (or some scissors to cut a flower, or a glass jar to put the cool bug in, etc.) and didn't want to bother you so they were careful and went ahead & did it and they totally meant to put it away but, Oh, wait, is that Corey heading over? And Adrian too? Yes, lets go in and play Legos! ...and there lies the forgotten, forbidden whatever.

To clarify, the ambulance took his whole file (they wanted his medical info. as well as medical authorization and contact info). I now make copies of the entire file, not just the blue card.

And yes, I check my outdoor trash cans daily when I do my walk around. The wind blew it off while I was working. When she told me she was citing me for it I told my registrar that I had a lid and it must have blown off. She said, "Well, it isn't on the trash can now."

I am not trying to argue either, really truly. I just want to point out that life is messy. We all strive for 100% perfect inspections because no one wants to think they are doing something unsafe/unhealthy for kids, but **** happens ...and enough **** happens when we are doing our very very best that we don't need to be held to unattainable standards and unrealistic expectations. For the third time, inspect me as often as you want. Give me stringent regulations. BUT respect me, respect my home.
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Old 03-01-2014, 08:30 AM
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ok...you know what....now I have some ruckus to cause...because those are NOT the regs I was given.

However, now that I see what the heck we're all arguing over....LOL.....it still states "hours of operation given to the office on application"

So if I put on my application I operate from 6 to 6, they can show up anytime during those hours.

But if I am closed I AM NOT OPERATING and I would fight that until the end. I called and spoke with someone yesterday, and that is what they told me, regardless if "I" was reading the wrong regs or not. You'd think they'd know what they're talking about in the regional office.

Meanwhile, I am beyond pissed for accepting the paper regs they handed me and taken that as their word. I better get to reading these new ones.

<walking away now with my tail between my legs>
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Old 03-01-2014, 08:34 AM
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ok...you know what....now I have some ruckus to cause...because those are NOT the regs I was given.

However, now that I see what the heck we're all arguing over....LOL.....it still states "hours of operation given to the office on application"

So if I put on my application I operate from 6 to 6, they can show up anytime during those hours.

But if I am closed I AM NOT OPERATING and I would fight that until the end. I called and spoke with someone yesterday, and that is what they told me, regardless if "I" was reading the wrong regs or not. You'd think they'd know what they're talking about in the regional office.

Meanwhile, I am beyond pissed for accepting the paper regs they handed me and taken that as their word. I better get to reading these new ones.

<walking away now with my tail between my legs>
NO! You wag that tail Melskids! This is the kind of bull that I am so angry about. No one I know has been given a proper copy of the new regs. When I told my lic. rep that I had questions about the new regs she said, "We have been instructed not to answer questions about the new regulations." WHAT???? Why can't we get honest answers to our questions??? We ALL want to do the right thing...UGH !
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Old 03-01-2014, 08:36 AM
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I too check around inside and out everyday before kids arrive...what happens on those bright sunny days when your oldest kiddo might be out in the yard after you have done your walk through but before you brought the DCK's out? Maybe he/she needed a little WD-40 for that squeaky wheel (or some scissors to cut a flower, or a glass jar to put the cool bug in, etc.) and didn't want to bother you so they were careful and went ahead & did it and they totally meant to put it away but, Oh, wait, is that Corey heading over? And Adrian too? Yes, lets go in and play Legos! ...and there lies the forgotten, forbidden whatever.

To clarify, the ambulance took his whole file (they wanted his medical info. as well as medical authorization and contact info). I now make copies of the entire file, not just the blue card.

And yes, I check my outdoor trash cans daily when I do my walk around. The wind blew it off while I was working. When she told me she was citing me for it I told my registrar that I had a lid and it must have blown off. She said, "Well, it isn't on the trash can now."

I am not trying to argue either, really truly. I just want to point out that life is messy. We all strive for 100% perfect inspections because no one wants to think they are doing something unsafe/unhealthy for kids, but **** happens ...and enough **** happens when we are doing our very very best that we don't need to be held to unattainable standards and unrealistic expectations. For the third time, inspect me as often as you want. Give me stringent regulations. BUT respect me, respect my home.
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And as the kids get older they get messier . Trust me!!!
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Old 03-01-2014, 08:37 AM
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Well, I can tell you this much.

We have a meeting this Thursday night with our local registrars, state licensors, the fire safety rep, someone from the regional office, and the union rep.

I wasn't going to go.

Now, you can bet your sweet tooshie I will be bringing a copy of the new regs, a list of questions, and sitting my big ol behind right in the front row.

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Old 03-01-2014, 08:39 AM
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ok...you know what....now I have some ruckus to cause...because those are NOT the regs I was given.

However, now that I see what the heck we're all arguing over....LOL.....it still states "hours of operation given to the office on application"

So if I put on my application I operate from 6 to 6, they can show up anytime during those hours.

But if I am closed I AM NOT OPERATING and I would fight that until the end. I called and spoke with someone yesterday, and that is what they told me, regardless if "I" was reading the wrong regs or not. You'd think they'd know what they're talking about in the regional office.

Meanwhile, I am beyond pissed for accepting the paper regs they handed me and taken that as their word. I better get to reading these new ones.

<walking away now with my tail between my legs>
That is why I started the thread- to hear ideas, what others were told and to help ensure everyone is understanding what we, as NY providers, are agreeing to
I think they are being sketchy... And I think the inspectors and registrors don't know either. For me that is concerning!! But welcome to NY I guess
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Old 03-01-2014, 08:40 AM
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NO! You wag that tail Melskids! This is the kind of bull that I am so angry about. No one I know has been given a proper copy of the new regs. When I told my lic. rep that I had questions about the new regs she said, "We have been instructed not to answer questions about the new regulations." WHAT???? Why can't we get honest answers to our questions??? We ALL want to do the right thing...UGH !

We ALL need to wag our tails!
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Old 03-01-2014, 08:42 AM
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Well, I can tell you this much.

We have a meeting this Thursday night with our local registrars, state licensors, the fire safety rep, someone from the regional office, and the union rep.

I wasn't going to go.

Now, you can bet your sweet tooshie I will be bringing a copy of the new regs, a list of questions, and sitting my big ol behind right in the front row.

I have one the 17th... I'm afraid to go- when I get going sometimes there is no stoping me
I'll prob end up having inspections weekly for the rest of my days!
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Old 03-01-2014, 08:48 AM
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Ok...we have one of those meetings coming up too. I am assuming a VOICE rep will be there, but I am going to call and invite one to come anyway. Any other suggestions? Maybe call the providers I know and encourage them to go with questions too.
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Old 03-01-2014, 09:01 AM
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I have one the 17th... I'm afraid to go- when I get going sometimes there is no stoping me
I'll prob end up having inspections weekly for the rest of my days!
I hear that.

I'm curious who your VOICE rep is. Would you mind telling me? If not, I totally understand. I'm just curious if we have the same one and if you find them helpful or not.
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Old 03-01-2014, 09:24 AM
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I hear that.

I'm curious who your VOICE rep is. Would you mind telling me? If not, I totally understand. I'm just curious if we have the same one and if you find them helpful or not.
I don't know :/.
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Old 03-01-2014, 09:53 AM
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Ok...we have one of those meetings coming up too. I am assuming a VOICE rep will be there, but I am going to call and invite one to come anyway. Any other suggestions? Maybe call the providers I know and encourage them to go with questions too.
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Old 03-01-2014, 10:20 AM
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And YOU helped! I'm pretty sure that between my big mouth, your voice of reason and Terry's connections Iowa will have a hard time implementing regs that do not benefit the health and safety of children. Now if I could only get them to do mandatory registration constant with investigation and consequences for those who operate unregistered. I know the state is trying but I wish they would try harder. You may not agree with this one, I don't know, but I've seen huge new problems around here because of people just wanting to "watch a few kids" and be unregistered.
They won't stop unregistered. They passed a bill in 2008 and had the law behind them but the DHS put a stop to it. They passed yearly inspections, a fee for registration, required fingerprinting, and mandatory registration to go in effect July 1, 2013. The dhs only did the yearly inspections and fingerprinting.

They tried again this year and it got thrown out. Even if they do pass it there has to be enough money to register and do the yearly inspections. There isn't enough money. Even if they pass it it will take five years to make it happen and they could still do what they did and just not do it.
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Old 03-01-2014, 10:43 AM
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For my initial inspection, prior to opening, my registrar told me I needed to add a second hand rail to my front stairs (my alternate egress door) because the regulation stated all stairways needed railings, and because that word was plural, I needed 2 railings (I had a railing on one side and it is only 4 stairs to the ground). That is my other big complaint...your licensor can interpret a reg one way and someone else could be told something entirely different.
This is what bugs me about being licensed as well... one person reads things one way, another reads them another way and YOU are stuck in the middle. I had the same issue here, my pre-licensing inspector said they may want me to put a rail in the middle of my deck that has ONE step down. ONE STEP! I kinda and hoped the actual licensing agent wouldn't and he didn't even suggest anything of the sort. He was more worried about the cement not being 100% level in some areas. My back yard has 6 trimmed cement squares because we live on adobe that moves with weather. Sometimes it's perfectly straight, sometimes it not. That's the beauty of having 6 squares and not 1 large slab or it would be broken to bits by now. Now we've had some rain and they're level again! The other big issue was knives in a block. My friend said her initial licensor told her she had to keep them up above the fridge to keep them out of reach of children. When she was inspected a year later the inspector told her to keep them in the corner of her counter the further from the edge and that was safer than above the fridge. What if there was an earthquake and they fell down? So 2 people, from the same office, with 100% different ideas as to what the regs would mean. So mine is in the corner, it passed my initial inspection that way and that's where it stays. One of my SA DCBs could reach it on the counter OR the fridge if he wanted to. But that's what MY supervision is for.


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Iíve documented and have met with higher ups. It has been a retaliatory situation in my case. I have close to approximately 50+ documentation pages. Now what Iíve been complaining about & stating for over a year, others are seeing. Recently some inspections have been removed from my file because I wouldnít sit back and just take it. Once this particular individual visited my home 15 times in one month.

I should add I am not in New York. I just understand why many providers have some concerns. I get inspections are important in an attempt to KEEP CHILDREN SAFE & weed out unsatisfactory providers. I just believe some personnel do not comprehend the regulations or abuse their positions.
That's CRAZY!!! I'm in shock!

I'm in CA and I've been operating in my home for 2yrs, licensed just over 1, but aside from my initial inspection I've yet to have an unannounced visit aside from the Food Prog. Rep and even they're off schedule now and haven't been here since August I think? I know providers who haven't been inspected since 2009. Our particular city doesn't have a designated inspector who just goes around inspecting daycares in our city, they only go based on complaints or their lottery system. If you don't get drawn in their lottery, you don't get inspected. Unfortunately I think this has set the wrong precedence in that people get sloppy. They're used to not being inspected and don't stay as strict. I guess being somewhat new I'm paranoid and I don't ever want to be cited, especially for something silly. I mean, if they see a safety violation by all means correct me and cite me if needed. But if it's something as silly as "leaves on my front walkway" or "one, not TWO, railsssss" then that's going to make me mad. I've shared my story a few times but my children were neglected by their past provider who was an alcoholic and severely intoxicated (to the point of vomiting and passing out) and no one EVER inspected her during that time and could have possibly caught her in the act sooner. I get why these rules are in place, I really do, but it's the execution of the rules that worry me. And hearing more and more about QRIS in CA scares me.
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