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  #1  
Old 06-02-2011, 06:10 AM
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Default Mom Cried When I Told Her 2 Year Old Cannot Have Bottle

If you have been following my previous posts on this kid, you know that my food program lady said I cannot give this 2 year old a bottle. If he wants rice cereal, it must be from a bowl with a spoon. Milk must be from a sippy cup.

I told his mother last night at pick up that the food program lady said that. Her response was "What?! Not even if I bring it?!" I said "No, I'm sorry. That is their rules and I don't want to get in trouble with them." With tears in her eyes, she said that they've been wanting to get him to drink from a regular cup but the bottle is "so much easier." How is a bottle easier than a cup?! You put liquid in both of them and hand em over.

I said that he doesn't even drink from them at my house, just chews on them and that is bad on his teeth. She said "okay" and walked out. She had tears in her eyes and her voice was shaky.
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Old 06-02-2011, 06:43 AM
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What difference does it make whether or not he can have it at your house if he doesn't drink it?

I have a big suspicion that she is putting some sweet in the bottle with his bottles at home.

Can you tell me the hours the child is there and if he eats or drinks anything during that time?

How is his weight and how sickly is he?
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Old 06-02-2011, 06:48 AM
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Its easier because she can treat him like a baby for longer and he isn't required to learn anything new. You did the right thing though and its whats best for this little guy.
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Old 06-02-2011, 07:08 AM
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In the previous thread she said four days a week. Tues thru Fri. 10-4:30.
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Old 06-02-2011, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by nannyde View Post
What difference does it make whether or not he can have it at your house if he doesn't drink it?

I have a big suspicion that she is putting some sweet in the bottle with his bottles at home.

Can you tell me the hours the child is there and if he eats or drinks anything during that time?

How is his weight and how sickly is he?
Hes in my home T-F 10-4:30. He has never eaten a bite of food in my care. Mom says that he eats at home. He has 3-4 poopy diapers DAILY in my care, which is NOT telling me he is fed solid food at home. It's not normal poop for a solid food eater. Sorry if TMI but it's really runny. He will sometimes drink milk for me (from a cup) but maybe once a week.

I have smelled the milk in the bottles. They usually smell like regular milk with rice cereal. The cereal is obvious because it is grainy in the nipple.

Not sure his weight, but he doesn't weigh much more than my 16 month old. As previously mentioned, he does not talk or try to communicate, doesn't play with toys or other kids, screams when anyone gets close to him, screams when he gets here and when his parents come to pick him up. Constantly drooly (and not teething, he has all of his teeth that he should have) doesn't make eye contact, doesn't listen to simple commands, ignores me when I say his name.
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Old 06-02-2011, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by littlemommy View Post
Hes in my home T-F 10-4:30. He has never eaten a bite of food in my care. Mom says that he eats at home. He has 3-4 poopy diapers DAILY in my care, which is NOT telling me he is fed solid food at home. It's not normal poop for a solid food eater. Sorry if TMI but it's really runny. He will sometimes drink milk for me (from a cup) but maybe once a week.

I have smelled the milk in the bottles. They usually smell like regular milk with rice cereal. The cereal is obvious because it is grainy in the nipple.

Not sure his weight, but he doesn't weigh much more than my 16 month old. As previously mentioned, he does not talk or try to communicate, doesn't play with toys or other kids, screams when anyone gets close to him, screams when he gets here and when his parents come to pick him up. Constantly drooly (and not teething, he has all of his teeth that he should have) doesn't make eye contact, doesn't listen to simple commands, ignores me when I say his name.
My goodness... this child needs an evaluation by a professional, ASAP. Feeding issues aside, he has some serious delays, whether he's several autistic or there's something else cognitive going on. I wonder if you could insist that the parents get him evaluated and if they don't, report them for medical neglect? Are you licensed, can you call your liscensor or someone and ask about what you can do about an obviously delayed child whose parents are shoving their heads in the sand?
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Old 06-02-2011, 07:53 AM
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I feel sad for this child. Something seems to be going on. Have they had him evaluated? I apologize for not reading previous threads if this has been answered. This must be hard on the parents considering the things you have described.
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Old 06-02-2011, 08:22 AM
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after all those other details, it sounds like something is seriously wrong. I am kinda shocked that you are putting up with all of this too. All that crying, digestive issues and social issues sounds like too much for me.
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Old 06-02-2011, 08:26 AM
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I added something like this to my contract a couple of yrs. ago.
At age 1- I will supply all food, snacks, milk, and sippee cup(you can bring your own sippee cup if you prefer to)
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Old 06-02-2011, 08:32 AM
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I feel sad for this child. Something seems to be going on. Have they had him evaluated? I apologize for not reading previous threads if this has been answered. This must be hard on the parents considering the things you have described.
My licensing lady said that if I think he is neglected I should call in to the hotline. She also said to maybe wait a while after he is not having the bottle and see if his eating habits straighten out.

I'm a little hesitant about asking the parents about autism or having him evaluated. They have kinda weird parenting styles and are just weird people themselves. I think they would be the type to be highly offended and just leave if I say anything. They act like he interacts with them a lot at home. His dad always says how excited he is to play at home and how happy he is. Maybe it's just here that he isn't happy? You would think at 2 years old he would show SOME interest in SOMETHING?!
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Old 06-02-2011, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by momma2girls View Post
I added something like this to my contract a couple of yrs. ago.
At age 1- I will supply all food, snacks, milk, and sippee cup(you can bring your own sippee cup if you prefer to)
I revised mine and added something similar, except that I'd prefer they don't bring them. It is a lot to keep track of if every kid brings a cup..and causes jealousy issues.
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Old 06-02-2011, 08:34 AM
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could they be giving him mixed grain cereal instead of rice?
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Old 06-02-2011, 08:38 AM
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I have a 15 month old and mom said she doesn't care how long he's on the bottle. She even warms the milk for him at night! I'm done trying cause its a waste of my time if all he gets at home is a bottle. He's refusing the sippy altogether now. He just had his one year check up and the Dr. said to be off the bottle by the end of the month. So she said, i don't care he can stay on it as long as he wants... Umm who's the parent??? Obviously its the baby!
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Old 06-02-2011, 08:45 AM
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I'm done trying cause its a waste of my time if all he gets at home is a bottle!
So the doc said be done with the bottle by the end of the month and BOTH YOU AND THE MOM are still giving the bottle? Hmmm?

IMO You should be doing what is best for the child no matter what the lazy mom does at home.

BTDT.
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Old 06-02-2011, 08:51 AM
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. Feeding issues aside, he has some serious delays
Good post Silver

The thing is that you can't look at it with the feeding issues aside because if they don't eat and digest what they are eating you can get a TON of delays physically, behaviorally, developmentally.

It's like what comes first... the chicken or the egg kind of thinking.

I wish he could come to me
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Old 06-02-2011, 08:52 AM
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could they be giving him mixed grain cereal instead of rice?
Not sure what exactly it is. She always said "Here's his bottle of rice cereal." Sometimes it would be warm, sometimes cold. Either way, not nutritionally enough for a developing brain and body.

Another reason I'm hesitant about asking them to get him evaluated is because she has mentioned before that they do not have health insurance. I know they take him in for his regular appointments, because she gave me an updated shot record. I'm sure their pedi would say something to them if he noticed at his regular appointments. Our town is known to have horrible pedi's..which reminds me I should ask who they go to!
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Old 06-02-2011, 08:57 AM
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I have a 15 month old and mom said she doesn't care how long he's on the bottle. She even warms the milk for him at night! I'm done trying cause its a waste of my time if all he gets at home is a bottle. He's refusing the sippy altogether now. He just had his one year check up and the Dr. said to be off the bottle by the end of the month. So she said, i don't care he can stay on it as long as he wants... Umm who's the parent??? Obviously its the baby!
I just went through something similar with a preemie who had a bit of slow development. Also 15 months.

Have you tried warming the milk and serving it in the sippy cup for a few weeks?? It worked like a charm for me.

Now I just let it sit for about 5 minutes before serving to knock the chill off. I have since noticed they all seem to drink it better that way. Much less painting the table with it....
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Old 06-02-2011, 08:59 AM
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Blue cloud,
Warm the sippy cup milk.
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Old 06-02-2011, 09:01 AM
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Not sure what exactly it is. She always said "Here's his bottle of rice cereal." Sometimes it would be warm, sometimes cold. Either way, not nutritionally enough for a developing brain and body.

Another reason I'm hesitant about asking them to get him evaluated is because she has mentioned before that they do not have health insurance. I know they take him in for his regular appointments, because she gave me an updated shot record. I'm sure their pedi would say something to them if he noticed at his regular appointments. Our town is known to have horrible pedi's..which reminds me I should ask who they go to!
The mixed grain cereal would explain the loose stools. Do you see any dark flecks in the cereal or is it ALL white. The rice should look like cloudy shaped.

Some mixed cereal has oatmeal and rye in them. That would explain the not digesting it.

Has she told you exactly what he is eating at home?

I've done a food journal with these kind of kids to put in writing what I TRIED to give them and have the parents document what they say they are having.

Usually what it comes down to from home is baby fruit in stage two... yougurt (commercial yougurt is REALLY high in sugar)... and sugar or fatty bread products. The kids will have a HOST of grain products they eat BUT they are usually very sweet (sugar cereals) or very fatty and salty like goldfish.

They also may be giving him baby fruit desert combo food... not REAL baby fruit. The parents believe the desert (which is really candy treat food) like Hawain Delight... Blueberry Buckle... etc. are REAL fruit. If you look at the contents they are really just blended deserts/treats.

They may also be giving him the combo dinner stage two foods. They are usually high salt, high fat, and have VERY VERY little protein. It's more like a bread than a veggie and meat combo meal.
If he is living off of milk, crackers, and baby fruit he will not have normal stools.

Last edited by nannyde; 06-02-2011 at 09:07 AM.
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Old 06-02-2011, 09:02 AM
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Blue cloud,
Warm the sippy cup milk.

I just wish this boy I have would eat anything. anything at all. I feel bad that all he ever wants/gets is milk or rice cereal.
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Old 06-02-2011, 11:18 AM
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I forgot to mention in my earlier post that often children with delays can suffer texture/oral aversion issues. Likely if he has something else going on and WILL NOT eat anything but liquid milk with some rice or fruit in it he hasn't developed his palate, tounge, jaw etc to eat appropriately. I had one child with this that had to learn how to eat certain things b/c the textures of many foods would get "lost" in his mouth and he would throw up. Not the kind of kids who dont WANT to eat something so the intentionally puke, this is a real medical DX and can be treated with chewy sticks, oral therapy devices and slow integration of specific textures. Basically these muscles, joints etc have not been used for so long they don't even know how to function anymore. In our area we even have a therapy place that offers classes for kids and parents with just this issue. I would talk to mom about getting a formal eval.
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Old 06-02-2011, 11:23 AM
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when are you giving him this milk. I think its time for a food schedual change too. I would sit him down with everyone, offer him a tablespoon of food, and only a little bit of milk in a cup. At snack time offer him water and sit him down to eat, for lunch the same thing. Don't give him a full sippy cup of milk and always offer it after he has eaten something. Its going to take you a bit, but it sounds like this childs eating schedual is off. I've had lots of kids like this, all they do is drink milk all day and eat nothing but junk food.
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Old 06-02-2011, 12:29 PM
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I would have not told her no about the bottle but rather: The only way he can have it here is if he has a doctors note for it. Just contact your doctor and have him write me a note saying the child can have it.

That way it's not YOU saying no to her.

It will be difficult to get a doc to write that note BUT if she feels that strongly about it then she can fight the fight with the doctor. At least it will force her to bring it up to a person with a medical degree. That's a good thing.

She will most likely say they won't do it over the phone and she has to take him in. Tell her that the food program lady MUST be right and this must be a big issue for them to require an office visit for it.



This is just one of those "the parents can't give you permission to do the wrong thing". Having a cereal bottle for a two year old only works when the PARENT is doing it. She can't give permission for someone else to do it.

The easiest thing for her to do is to leave your day care. That way she can either have grandma do it or whoever she hires agree to it without a doc note upon hiring them. Just be prepared for her to scoot on down the road.

When parents do these kind of things it is VERY valuable to them. If she is crying over it it most likely means that this is something that brings her a lot of easy and switching child care is WAY easier than saying no to a two year old.
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Old 06-02-2011, 12:43 PM
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hmmmmm......

I would not talk to Mom about it anymore. I would offer the child a sippy cup and small bits of healthy finger foods at each regularly scheduled meal and snack time. I would not offer the bottle with cereal AT ALL. It is filling him up and that is why he refuses to try anything else. If you keep offering him the regular foods and not the bottle, in time he will realize it's this or nothing. I have never known or heard of a child who will literally starve rather than trying the new foods. You may haver to put the bits of food in his mouth at first for awhile, just so he gets the idea, but he will eventually eat.

Mom doesn't want to hear what you have to say. She has made that clear. Telling her to do anything is not going to work. Seems that she wants her "baby" to be just that, a "baby" still.

I'd do what is right for the child on my watch, and when he actually starts trying and enjoying new foods, I'd take some photos, journal what he's been eating and give it to Mom.

Another thing, your food program specialist cannot tell you or the Mom that the child cannot have a bottle. Mom can give the kid a bottle til' he's a teenager if she wants to. You can give him a bottle as well. The only thing the food program specialist can say or do is recommend not giving a bottle, requiring that you provide the foods that meet food pattern guidelines, but she cannot say that you cannot serve his drink in a bottle. Not that it really matters, as I wouldn't give him a bottle anyway, but FP has no authority to say you cannot give a bottle.

Also, you can certainly contact children's protective services and get their opinion without actually reporting first. They'll tell you if you should report it.
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Old 06-02-2011, 01:26 PM
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hmmmmm......

I would not talk to Mom about it anymore. I would offer the child a sippy cup and small bits of healthy finger foods at each regularly scheduled meal and snack time. I would not offer the bottle with cereal AT ALL. It is filling him up and that is why he refuses to try anything else. If you keep offering him the regular foods and not the bottle, in time he will realize it's this or nothing. I have never known or heard of a child who will literally starve rather than trying the new foods. You may haver to put the bits of food in his mouth at first for awhile, just so he gets the idea, but he will eventually eat.

Mom doesn't want to hear what you have to say. She has made that clear. Telling her to do anything is not going to work. Seems that she wants her "baby" to be just that, a "baby" still.

I'd do what is right for the child on my watch, and when he actually starts trying and enjoying new foods, I'd take some photos, journal what he's been eating and give it to Mom.

Another thing, your food program specialist cannot tell you or the Mom that the child cannot have a bottle. Mom can give the kid a bottle til' he's a teenager if she wants to. You can give him a bottle as well. The only thing the food program specialist can say or do is recommend not giving a bottle, requiring that you provide the foods that meet food pattern guidelines, but she cannot say that you cannot serve his drink in a bottle. Not that it really matters, as I wouldn't give him a bottle anyway, but FP has no authority to say you cannot give a bottle.

Also, you can certainly contact children's protective services and get their opinion without actually reporting first. They'll tell you if you should report it.
My food program lady said that is one of their "rules." That at 2 years of age he needs to be drinking from a cup. If I don't follow their rules, I will get booted from their program, which means I'll have to charge all parents more because I can't afford all of that food! She said the food program is not just about eating, it's about forming good eating habits, good mouth muscle tone (which Nannyde covered) and proper eating skills for their age. It teaches a lot of hand-eye coordination as well.

Nannyde- The bottles with "cereal" were thick and white, like it was just milk and rice. No brown flecks. I still think that if that is ALL he gets at home it could cause the loose stools.

Today at drop-off, she said that he didn't bring a bottle. I said I'm sure he'll do fine since he only chewed on it anyways. I told her that for the past couple weeks I was putting milk in a cup for him. He barely drank any, but at least he didn't just chew on it. She said it's probably going to be harder on her than on him.

At lunch time, I told the kids to come sit down to eat. Everyone ran in and was so excited. He stood there and cried. After he sat down, I gave him a bowl with some cut up lasagna. He hit it away instantly. Then he pushes everyone else's bowls away. Everyone ate, and I put his bowl on the counter so it wouldn't end up on the floor. I later got him to take one bite. He acted like he didn't know how to chew!! He just let it sit there, then started screaming, then puked.

Wow. I don't even know what to do anymore. I offer every day, and everyday he throws this huge fit. Do I ask mom to pack a lunch for a day to see if that makes him eat? I'd be curious to see what she would pack. If it's all junk then how do I tell her that I'll start offering my food again?
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Old 06-02-2011, 01:35 PM
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This is an amazing article.

http://main.zerotothree.org/site/Doc...pdf?docID=7961
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Old 06-02-2011, 01:37 PM
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I would not have her provide food because it will be all baby food and gummy worms.

Keep doing what you are doing but just put a bite at a time in front of him.

Maybe start with nice sweet carrots or even peaches. See if you can get him used to eating SOMETHING healthy at your house.

I think for the time being it is ok to feed him like you would a much younger child until he gets the hang of feeding himself.

Stick it out for a couple more weeks. Let's see how things improve. I know you can help this lil guy out.

NO PUREES AND NO BOTTLES THOUGH!

Good luck.
Poor lil guy.
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Old 06-02-2011, 02:07 PM
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My food program lady said that is one of their "rules." That at 2 years of age he needs to be drinking from a cup. If I don't follow their rules, I will get booted from their program, which means I'll have to charge all parents more because I can't afford all of that food! She said the food program is not just about eating, it's about forming good eating habits, good mouth muscle tone (which Nannyde covered) and proper eating skills for their age. It teaches a lot of hand-eye coordination as well.


First, let me say, I hope you don't think I am being offensive....it is not my intent.

I understand this isn't really the topic at hand, but I don't believe your FP specialist. I agree part of the point is to teach proper eating and forming good habits, but they CANNOT tell you that a two year old CANNOT have a bottle. I'd ask her to show me in writing the rule she is referrinf too. If I was Mom and I wanted my child to have a bottle, I'd insist on seeing it. I just looked at the CACFP website and cannot find anything in the regs that state this.

I agree he should not have a bottle, children do not get a bottle from me here after their first birthday. But it really isn't anybody else's business if Mom wants to give her child a bottle.
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Old 06-02-2011, 03:01 PM
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I'm mean, I wouldn't have fed him, thats fine that he didn't want to eat, but a) he would not be allowed to touch other peoples food and b) he would have to sit there and watch the others eat. I don't believe in letting the child go and play while everyone eats, not my problem that he wants to be stubborn but I don't allow a child tell me what he can and cannot do. Also, if he didn't want to eat, then give him some water in a sippy cup, I would not allow milk, he's playing a game now, he knows if he screams and pukes that you'll feel sorry for him and give him milk, I don't play games like this.
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Old 06-02-2011, 03:29 PM
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I'm mean, I wouldn't have fed him, thats fine that he didn't want to eat, but a) he would not be allowed to touch other peoples food and b) he would have to sit there and watch the others eat. I don't believe in letting the child go and play while everyone eats, not my problem that he wants to be stubborn but I don't allow a child tell me what he can and cannot do. Also, if he didn't want to eat, then give him some water in a sippy cup, I would not allow milk, he's playing a game now, he knows if he screams and pukes that you'll feel sorry for him and give him milk, I don't play games like this.
I don't agree with this at all.

I think this kid has a serious eating disorder. I think he needs to be managed by highly experienced people who have the knowledge to work with him gradually to accept food. It's a long long long road and it takes a lot of time and money.

If he pukes at the sight of food he has something seriously wrong with him. It's not a manipulation.
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Old 06-02-2011, 03:52 PM
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I don't agree with this at all.

I think this kid has a serious eating disorder. I think he needs to be managed by highly experienced people who have the knowledge to work with him gradually to accept food. It's a long long long road and it takes a lot of time and money.

If he pukes at the sight of food he has something seriously wrong with him. It's not a manipulation.
OP said in an earlier post that he does eat and play at home. I'm thinking maybe he has something like celiacs or crohns disease. Both of these can cause the really runny diapers and I had a child in care that had celiacs and it caused delays in her development. It took a nutrionalist to diagnose it not a pediatrician. If hes eating and playing at home maybe hes just not happy at daycare (wouldn't be anyones fault) and hes not the first child not to do well in childcare.
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Old 06-02-2011, 04:01 PM
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Does the OP know for sure that he eats and plays happily at home or is this info from the parent? I have a special needs child here and her mom lied (I guess unintentionally?) about tons of stuff before finally getting this little girl evaluated and admitting that things were not as she portrayed.
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Old 06-02-2011, 04:12 PM
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OP said in an earlier post that he does eat and play at home. I'm thinking maybe he has something like celiacs or crohns disease. Both of these can cause the really runny diapers and I had a child in care that had celiacs and it caused delays in her development. It took a nutrionalist to diagnose it not a pediatrician. If hes eating and playing at home maybe hes just not happy at daycare (wouldn't be anyones fault) and hes not the first child not to do well in childcare.
The mom says he eats and plays at home. It doesn't mean he does either. There is a reason he is on cereal bottles at home. It's not because he eats well there.

His "play" could be an adult holding, walking, rocking, one to oneing him while he plays.

He definitely needs medical care and an assessment. I think it's way past behavioral. I wouldn't discipline him in any way and I wouldn't associate his behavior with any willfullness or intent. I think he's a sick little guy.
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Old 06-02-2011, 05:16 PM
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how sad. In this situation it does appear as though something else is going on, with all the delays listed. I would NOT mention any specific potential diagnosis (ie. autism) even if you choose to encourage the parents to seek some intervention regarding the delays (leave that to the DR. imo.)

If there were no delays I would put the child at the table and give him the same food and drink as other two year olds and if he doesn't eat, fine. Obviously this case sounds different. I will not give a bottle after a year, even if the parent asks. (Will help to wean off of it of course.) If there are random circumstances or Dr. says to do it for whatever reason that is different.

Please keep us posted!
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Old 06-02-2011, 06:59 PM
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My food program lady said that is one of their "rules." That at 2 years of age he needs to be drinking from a cup. If I don't follow their rules, I will get booted from their program, which means I'll have to charge all parents more because I can't afford all of that food! She said the food program is not just about eating, it's about forming good eating habits, good mouth muscle tone (which Nannyde covered) and proper eating skills for their age. It teaches a lot of hand-eye coordination as well.


First, let me say, I hope you don't think I am being offensive....it is not my intent.

I understand this isn't really the topic at hand, but I don't believe your FP specialist. I agree part of the point is to teach proper eating and forming good habits, but they CANNOT tell you that a two year old CANNOT have a bottle. I'd ask her to show me in writing the rule she is referrinf too. If I was Mom and I wanted my child to have a bottle, I'd insist on seeing it. I just looked at the CACFP website and cannot find anything in the regs that state this.

I agree he should not have a bottle, children do not get a bottle from me here after their first birthday. But it really isn't anybody else's business if Mom wants to give her child a bottle.
Just talked to my FP lady about other not related things today she clearly explained that the USDA has specific rules and each food program provider (company that provides the food program to you, like Providers Choice or CCRR in our area) INTERPRETS THOSE RULES AS THEY SEE FIT. The OP's food program can very well say that THEIR rule is 2 yr olds are fed from a cup NOT A BOTTLE, as long as they are meeting the MINIMUM requirements from the USDA they can add in any additional requirements they want. You can choose the specific food program PROVIDER which is where the rules vary- so long as they are in accordance with the USDA.

I think its a mute point about whether the FP allows bottles. No educated professional would actually allow a two year old (without a med dx) to eat from a bottle simply b/c they refused to do it any other way.
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Old 06-02-2011, 08:30 PM
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Partner up with Momma here, and let her know that you are going to work with her and her kiddo. Don't fall back on the food program rules...have a real heart to heart talk about the fact that he is not eating anything with you and you just don't feel good about his developmental stages on any of the other levels - if he is really unhappy with your place or crowd - you understand if they'd like to try a few places out, but you don't think that is it (unless you do). That takes the pressure off both of you.

Then, do a food journal and food introduction plan - agree with mom to introduce the same new foods at home and in care, document together (send the notebook back and forth with him) and look for patterns and room for improvement. Try to keep it a group effort so the newness isn't just in your zone.

Confer again after a few weeks and decide together to look for assessment options that might be free, and consider recommending a ped you trust.

Above all, be really warm and friendly with him and with mom in front of him. Make sure she is comfortable and showing him that she is. He needs to know you guys are friends who care about him together.
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Old 06-02-2011, 09:28 PM
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My food program lady said that is one of their "rules." That at 2 years of age he needs to be drinking from a cup. If I don't follow their rules, I will get booted from their program, which means I'll have to charge all parents more because I can't afford all of that food! She said the food program is not just about eating, it's about forming good eating habits, good mouth muscle tone (which Nannyde covered) and proper eating skills for their age. It teaches a lot of hand-eye coordination as well.


First, let me say, I hope you don't think I am being offensive....it is not my intent.

I understand this isn't really the topic at hand, but I don't believe your FP specialist. I agree part of the point is to teach proper eating and forming good habits, but they CANNOT tell you that a two year old CANNOT have a bottle. I'd ask her to show me in writing the rule she is referrinf too. If I was Mom and I wanted my child to have a bottle, I'd insist on seeing it. I just looked at the CACFP website and cannot find anything in the regs that state this.

I agree he should not have a bottle, children do not get a bottle from me here after their first birthday. But it really isn't anybody else's business if Mom wants to give her child a bottle.
maybe the food program specialist isn't saying that the child CAN'T have a bottle, but that if he does have a bottle he has to be held and fed. i'm only guessing. if that's the case, to ME that would mean he can't have a bottle. i would never hold a 2 year old and feed them a bottle. it's ridiculous.

either way - food program rules or not - this child shouldn't be on a bottle. so, if the "food program won't allow it" line works on the mom - all the better.
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Old 06-03-2011, 05:58 AM
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My food program lady said that is one of their "rules." That at 2 years of age he needs to be drinking from a cup. If I don't follow their rules, I will get booted from their program, which means I'll have to charge all parents more because I can't afford all of that food! She said the food program is not just about eating, it's about forming good eating habits, good mouth muscle tone (which Nannyde covered) and proper eating skills for their age. It teaches a lot of hand-eye coordination as well.


First, let me say, I hope you don't think I am being offensive....it is not my intent.

I understand this isn't really the topic at hand, but I don't believe your FP specialist. I agree part of the point is to teach proper eating and forming good habits, but they CANNOT tell you that a two year old CANNOT have a bottle. I'd ask her to show me in writing the rule she is referrinf too. If I was Mom and I wanted my child to have a bottle, I'd insist on seeing it. I just looked at the CACFP website and cannot find anything in the regs that state this.

I agree he should not have a bottle, children do not get a bottle from me here after their first birthday. But it really isn't anybody else's business if Mom wants to give her child a bottle.
So...it's not anybody else's business if Mom wants to giver her child a bottle, but yet YOU don't allow it at your home? That would make it your business.
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Old 06-03-2011, 06:03 AM
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maybe the food program specialist isn't saying that the child CAN'T have a bottle, but that if he does have a bottle he has to be held and fed. i'm only guessing. if that's the case, to ME that would mean he can't have a bottle. i would never hold a 2 year old and feed them a bottle. it's ridiculous.

either way - food program rules or not - this child shouldn't be on a bottle. so, if the "food program won't allow it" line works on the mom - all the better.
That's what I thought. I'm not going to hold and feed him with a bottle. His dad told me yesterday that he has been trying to get him off of it for over a year, but his mom wants to keep babying him. He said that he's glad the food program lady said that because unless his GF hears it from someone else she would have him take a bottle to school.

His dad and I had a good talk about his eating habits. He said that he eats well with a fork and spoon at home. He told me some of his favorite things, and that he doesn't like tomatoes. That may be part of the problem...I cook with tomatoes quite often. I asked if there was a reason they give him cereal in a bottle. He said it helps him sleep longer at night, and that they will continue feeding it at night but I do not need to do it here. Hopefully that will mean he won't come filled up on that and will want to start eating.

I'm glad him and I had that talk. Now I'm confident that the boy is eating at home. Now we just need to work on his communication and social skills.
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Old 06-03-2011, 06:08 AM
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Just talked to my FP lady about other not related things today she clearly explained that the USDA has specific rules and each food program provider (company that provides the food program to you, like Providers Choice or CCRR in our area) INTERPRETS THOSE RULES AS THEY SEE FIT. The OP's food program can very well say that THEIR rule is 2 yr olds are fed from a cup NOT A BOTTLE, as long as they are meeting the MINIMUM requirements from the USDA they can add in any additional requirements they want. You can choose the specific food program PROVIDER which is where the rules vary- so long as they are in accordance with the USDA.

I think its a mute point about whether the FP allows bottles. No educated professional would actually allow a two year old (without a med dx) to eat from a bottle simply b/c they refused to do it any other way.
Thank you for this information!! I didn't want to argue with my food program lady about whether or not it is a legal "rule." It's not age appropriate, and I didn't feel comfortable with it. Not only is it bad for his teeth and eating habits, but it disrupted the other kids at lunch time. They would sit and stare at him chewing on the nipple and then they wouldn't eat. I'm so glad this is over and NO MORE BOTTLE will be brought with him. His dad agrees that he should not have it, so I have his support as well.
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Old 06-03-2011, 06:31 AM
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I am glad that you and the daddy had a heart to heart.

Just curious..... what does he like to eat at home?
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Old 06-03-2011, 06:33 AM
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If the parents don't have insurance, contact the local school district and see what opportunities they have for diagnosing and helping this child with his developmental delays.
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Old 06-03-2011, 06:56 AM
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Just talked to my FP lady about other not related things today she clearly explained that the USDA has specific rules and each food program provider (company that provides the food program to you, like Providers Choice or CCRR in our area) INTERPRETS THOSE RULES AS THEY SEE FIT. The OP's food program can very well say that THEIR rule is 2 yr olds are fed from a cup NOT A BOTTLE, as long as they are meeting the MINIMUM requirements from the USDA they can add in any additional requirements they want. You can choose the specific food program PROVIDER which is where the rules vary- so long as they are in accordance with the USDA.

I think its a mute point about whether the FP allows bottles. No educated professional would actually allow a two year old (without a med dx) to eat from a bottle simply b/c they refused to do it any other way.
They can interpret it as they see fit, but if they want to terminate contract with you they have to prove that the "way they see fit" actually is in line with the federal guidelines.

I agree that the child shouldn't have a bottle, especially as his main source of nutrition. My whole point is that I wouldn't have told Mom FP said this, because then Mom COULD challenge it if she wanted too.
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Old 06-03-2011, 07:01 AM
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So...it's not anybody else's business if Mom wants to giver her child a bottle, but yet YOU don't allow it at your home? That would make it your business.
Yep. At my house it is my business. So, I would either quit talking to Mom about it, as I said earlier, and do things my way at my house OR I would simply tell Mom that I will no longer allow bottles at my house, she is welcome to continue her way at home and if she disagrees with me about it she could find alternate care. I simply wouldn't use the FP as an excuse for not doing things her way, I'd tell her straight up how I felt about it. I'd tell her straight up that she is creating life-long health issues for this child if she doesn't change her ways. I'd tell her he needs to be evaluated by a health professional and to see a nutritionist. Then, she could do with that info as she sees fit.

BTW....other than saying you cannot give this child a bottle or you'll get booted from the FP, did this FP specialist give you any REAL advice on how to help this child? THAT is her job, really.
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Old 06-03-2011, 07:05 AM
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Thank you for this information!! I didn't want to argue with my food program lady about whether or not it is a legal "rule." It's not age appropriate, and I didn't feel comfortable with it. Not only is it bad for his teeth and eating habits, but it disrupted the other kids at lunch time. They would sit and stare at him chewing on the nipple and then they wouldn't eat. I'm so glad this is over and NO MORE BOTTLE will be brought with him. His dad agrees that he should not have it, so I have his support as well.
Cool. That's great. Now, what are you going to do when the child doesn't eat or drink at all? That is dangerous. Is there a plan of action with the parents, or is everyone just taking the bottle away?

This cannot just be done "cold turkey" - he is attached to his bottle and it is his largest source of nutrition. What if he doesn't eat or drink? Hopefully he will, but from the issues you have described, it's not likely. I wouldn't want to be responsible for caring for a child who refuses to eat or drink anything.....bad things can happen.
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Old 06-03-2011, 07:13 AM
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Cool. That's great. Now, what are you going to do when the child doesn't eat or drink at all? That is dangerous. Is there a plan of action with the parents, or is everyone just taking the bottle away?

This cannot just be done "cold turkey" - he is attached to his bottle and it is his largest source of nutrition. What if he doesn't eat or drink? Hopefully he will, but from the issues you have described, it's not likely. I wouldn't want to be responsible for caring for a child who refuses to eat or drink anything.....bad things can happen.
When he did bring his bottle, he never drank from it, so that won't be any different. I can't force him to eat or drink in my care. I figure if he is hungry or thirsty, he will eat and drink. He wasn't THAT attached to his bottle, it was more of a matter of his mother pushing it on him. His dad told me yesterday that he can drink from a normal cup or a sippy cup, and that he does very well with those at home. He has been trying to get her to lose the bottle for over a year.

And yes, my food program specialist did give me other advice. She told me that if i suspect he is being neglected and not fed at home, that I need to report it. After talking to his father, I'm confident that he IS eating at home. I'm going to keep offering new foods every day, and hopefully he will start to feel comfortable enough to eat.

I think a major part of it is his lack of socialization. The only people he's EVER been with are his parents and grandmother. He has never been around other kids his age, or other kids in general! He's definitely taking a long time to adjust to daycare, but I think that is normal for a 2 year old that has never been put in situations to meet other people.

I talked to his mom yesterday again about the dangers of the bottle at his age. She said that she's been wanting to get him off of it but it's just "easier." She knows that it can cause damage to his teeth, and said that it will be much more of an adjustment for HER than for HIM. I'm really NOT worried about it being a problem here. He never drank from it anyways because after seeing that he didn't even drink from it, I would give him a cup.
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Old 06-03-2011, 07:18 AM
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I am glad that you and the daddy had a heart to heart.

Just curious..... what does he like to eat at home?
He said mac n cheese, chicken nuggets, sandwiches, bread, and hamburger helper. One day he came in with a sucker, so I know they give him sugar, too. I don't cook packaged meals at my house, so mac n cheese and hamburger helper are all from scratch. I kind of wonder if he doesn't want to eat because he doesn't like to sit at the table with the other kids. He'll sit down, and as soon as I bring him a bowl of food he pushes it away. Doesn't even take a chance to look at it, let alone touch it. I'm going to keep trying. At least I know I'm trying by offering!
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Old 06-03-2011, 07:29 AM
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Is he in a high chair?
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Old 06-03-2011, 07:30 AM
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He said mac n cheese, chicken nuggets, sandwiches, bread, and hamburger helper. One day he came in with a sucker, so I know they give him sugar, too. I don't cook packaged meals at my house, so mac n cheese and hamburger helper are all from scratch. I kind of wonder if he doesn't want to eat because he doesn't like to sit at the table with the other kids. He'll sit down, and as soon as I bring him a bowl of food he pushes it away. Doesn't even take a chance to look at it, let alone touch it. I'm going to keep trying. At least I know I'm trying by offering!
that explains alot....he wants the salty, chock-full of preservatives, packaged foods. yuck.

if it is a social issue and he's not comfy sitting with the other kids, is it possible to sit him at a small table off to the side by himself, where maybe you can sit one on one with him for awhile? That might help.
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Old 06-03-2011, 08:00 AM
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that explains alot....he wants the salty, chock-full of preservatives, packaged foods. yuck.

if it is a social issue and he's not comfy sitting with the other kids, is it possible to sit him at a small table off to the side by himself, where maybe you can sit one on one with him for awhile? That might help.
I just gave my food program lady an update. She suggested this too. I have a small card table and chairs that the kids sit at while they are eating. His dad told me that he sits at the table at home, so I don't think I'm going to try a high chair.
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Old 06-03-2011, 08:06 AM
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I really hope that the father is being honest with you.
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Old 06-03-2011, 08:22 AM
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He said mac n cheese, chicken nuggets, sandwiches, bread, and hamburger helper. One day he came in with a sucker, so I know they give him sugar, too. I don't cook packaged meals at my house, so mac n cheese and hamburger helper are all from scratch. I kind of wonder if he doesn't want to eat because he doesn't like to sit at the table with the other kids. He'll sit down, and as soon as I bring him a bowl of food he pushes it away. Doesn't even take a chance to look at it, let alone touch it. I'm going to keep trying. At least I know I'm trying by offering!
Glad you didn't ask to have them provide food.
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Old 06-09-2011, 10:05 AM
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How are things going with this now?
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Old 06-09-2011, 11:33 AM
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How are things going with this now?
Making (very slow!) progress! At lunchtime, he doesn't hit his bowl away before looking at it. Two days in a row now, he has actually taken a bite of food (with my assistance.) When he takes that first bite, he lets it sit in his mouth. Yesterday he sat there, with his mouth open, for an hour. Today, he took a bite and did the same thing, but spit it out all over the table.

I didn't let him spit it out yesterday because I don't want him to get into that bad habit. On yesterday's menu, we had pork roast, stewed onions and asparagus, and macaroni salad. Today was spaghetti, sweet potatoes, and apples.

He's drinking fine from a sippy cup.
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Old 06-09-2011, 11:35 AM
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My food program lady said that is one of their "rules."
I'd call the main office and let them know what your food program lady told you. Crystal is correct...it is a FEDERAL food program and you can only be kicked off for not feeding what you are supposed to feed or for recording issues or of course, sanitation. More likely, it bugs her that the kid is drinking from a bottle and she's playing fast and lose with the rules.

That said, I also agree with Crystal about how you should handle this situation. No bottle, finger food and cups only. He'll eat.
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Old 06-09-2011, 03:51 PM
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He's still a relatively new kid to you so I would keep pushing for progress as you have been. If his other skills don't improve within another couple weeks, I suggest contacting your school district and having him evaluated to be on the safe side. In the mean time, I'd print off a check list of skills he should be doing and have dad fill it out so you know the skills he displays at home. I'm guessing that a lot of his behaviors stem from being new to daycare and he just needs extra time to warm up to the other kids. Also being nearly two he's probably developing independence at home and hasn't figured out how to deal with the separation. At home he's pushing for more independence and then he's sent off to daycare away from everyone he's know thus far and might be viewing it as punishment for trying to be independent. He doesn't know what's going on, he just knows he doesn't like it. I think a lot of it stems from separation anxiety. Give him as much love as possible and he'll come out eventually.
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Old 06-09-2011, 06:35 PM
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Making (very slow!) progress! At lunchtime, he doesn't hit his bowl away before looking at it. Two days in a row now, he has actually taken a bite of food (with my assistance.) When he takes that first bite, he lets it sit in his mouth. Yesterday he sat there, with his mouth open, for an hour. Today, he took a bite and did the same thing, but spit it out all over the table.

I didn't let him spit it out yesterday because I don't want him to get into that bad habit. On yesterday's menu, we had pork roast, stewed onions and asparagus, and macaroni salad. Today was spaghetti, sweet potatoes, and apples.

He's drinking fine from a sippy cup.
Your menu sounds delicious, but it may be part of the problem for him. I would start him with some very basic foods. I'd treat him like a younger child, since he is developmentally at a younger stage, and offer him foods that are a little more bland. More of a "just starting to eat finger foods" stage. Then, let him progress from there.

He may also have sensory issues. He really needs an evaluation.
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Old 06-09-2011, 06:39 PM
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One more thought.....If at all possible, I would try to give him more opportunities to try foods. I know it's difficult to meet special needs, especially with food, but I think if he gets more "practice" with putting food in his mouth, he will get better at eating. You could actually make food part of your curriculum and try out a new food each day for a couple of weeks. Make a BIG deal about it and how great it is. See how he responds.
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Old 06-09-2011, 08:25 PM
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Making (very slow!) progress! At lunchtime, he doesn't hit his bowl away before looking at it. Two days in a row now, he has actually taken a bite of food (with my assistance.) When he takes that first bite, he lets it sit in his mouth. Yesterday he sat there, with his mouth open, for an hour. Today, he took a bite and did the same thing, but spit it out all over the table.

I didn't let him spit it out yesterday because I don't want him to get into that bad habit. On yesterday's menu, we had pork roast, stewed onions and asparagus, and macaroni salad. Today was spaghetti, sweet potatoes, and apples.

He's drinking fine from a sippy cup.
Didn't you say he didn't like tomatoes? Maybe that is the reason he spit his food out today-didn't like the tomatoe sauce.
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Old 06-09-2011, 08:33 PM
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Candyland Candyland is offline
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"Littlemommy" - I think you've done tremendously with this little guy. I, too, happen to think he's got problems. poor kid.
Keep working with him.
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Old 06-10-2011, 06:07 AM
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littlemommy littlemommy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Country Kids View Post
Didn't you say he didn't like tomatoes? Maybe that is the reason he spit his food out today-didn't like the tomatoe sauce.
I thought of that after he spit it out. It's going to be tough to make special foods for him. At least he tried it, though!
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Old 06-10-2011, 06:10 AM
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littlemommy littlemommy is offline
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Originally Posted by Candyland View Post
"Littlemommy" - I think you've done tremendously with this little guy. I, too, happen to think he's got problems. poor kid.
Keep working with him.
Thanks. I'm willing to keep working with him since I've seen progress so far! He's even playing with other kids more. Well, not really playing, but at least babbling to them and pointing. He doesn't want any toys around him. If anyone shares with him, he takes it straight to the toy box. He likes looking at books and watching birds on the bird feeder. I think he'll slowly come out of his shyness. It's slowly happening, and I hope to see more and more improvement every week!
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bottle to cup, food program, sensory food aversion, special needs

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