So today one of my dck's says he is going to see his new daycare after he gets picked up tonight.....

Would you ask parents about it? I really want to text them and let them know I know this information (true or not).

Also, I figure if they are giving notice, that I will get it Monday. I have the week of T-giving off for my unpaid vacation. My contract says when someone gives two weeks notice, they are required to submit it with payment even if the parents are not bringing the child.
So, I think, legally I could get that second week paid.

Should I let them know today that I would like to know asap if they are leaving so i can fill the spot? Should I also remind them to submit two week notice in writing along with a check for those two full weeks (even if I am on vaca???)....thoughts, opinions???
Thanks all.

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Ugh that is the worst feeling ever!

I would say something to them at pick up so that you can be sure they don't just blow you off completely. But, that's just me since I was just burned by a DCF!

Good luck!

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sounds like they are going to ditch out on your vacation time. I think you should expect the one week's paid only but in the future, change your contract to include PAID vacation or require that no term notice be giving within a certain amount of your unpaid vacation

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Thanks gals. Blackcat I e-mailed you.

I so want to send home an addendum to my contract tonight that reads a change in two week notice!!! Should I? That two week notice should be submitted in writing and cannot be given during my vacations and must be in cash???? Or would that be evil....

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I would. You are already in the process of updating contract info so it wouldn't be weird or seem out of place.

I will check my e-mail and get back to you right after my monsters,....hmmm I mean kids, eat lunch.

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It might be a little bit late for that, now. By giving you two weeks notice, they are planning on getting out of paying for your vacation week.

I would ask the parents tonight what is going on. You need to plan accordingly.

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EXactly- I had to change my contract after watching a child with seperation anxiety for an entire yr. and I gave all my families 2 months notice, that I would be taking a week off.
Come to find out one family gave me a 2 week notice, 2 weeks before my paid week vacation.
Now, I have in my contract- if you leave for any reason, my paid vacation is still owed to me.

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I wouldn't panic just yet....it could be for weekend care or for evening care as well. Plus, kids say all sorts of things. I only believe half of what they tell me.

If you are close with this family and it is really bugging you then maybe you could say "Hey, Sally mentioned to day that she is going to see her new daycare tonight. Are you guys planning on switching care or unhappy about something here?"
I personally wouldn't say anything but those kinds of things don't bother me. But if they did, I wouldn't be able to stand the not knowing and would have to say something.....

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It could be that the child is going to go to a daycare while you are out on your vacation.

When I go out on vacation, some of the parents have back-up DCP that they send their kids to.

They tell me the same thing. I asked and the parents told me..

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You may be right.

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I would just say, hey Barb, Dustin mentioned meeting his new daycare tonight, is there something we need to discuss? If something is changing I would reall like to know

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Maybe they are trying to find daycare for when you are on vacation.

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I was a conference where Tom Copeland was a presenter and he made a wonderful suggestion that I am going to try to implement. That their two weeks final payment up front. Some parents would freak out and way they can't afford it but he actually suggested that you can just add an amount on each week so it isn't as "painful" for them. Then if they don't give you a full two weeks notice or just walk out on you, its already paid. For those that actually give you the two weeks notice, they feel like they are getting two weeks free.

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I think it's a better idea to take the two weeks deposit and require a calander month notice. That way you have two weeks in the bank and get two more paydays before the child leaves care. Require notice to be given ONLY on a working Friday and in writing. That way you will know each Friday that if you haven't received notice you have at least one month before a child will depart care.

Two weeks notice is rediculous in this economy. I don't know who invented the idea that two weeks was reasonable but it isn't. If you take your time and properly interview families to get the "right fit" you need a few weeks to complete the process.

Can you imagine how the housing rental businesses would do with only two weeks notice? There's always the complaint that child care costs as much as housing but there's no connection to the idea that because it IS such an important service that the owner/providers need TIME to "fill the space". There's a reason why landlords want a months notice given on the first of the month. We deserve that kind of notice too.

The incoming families will appreciate your efforts in taking time to interview them and the outgoing family will need to be organized, upfront, and careful to be respectful during that time. Use the two week deposit for the LAST two weeks of care or vacation/holiday pay that is owed.

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This family always goes to one of the relatives....always. Never has been any different in 3 years....

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So if I do send home an addendum tonight, do I need signatures on it or will it stand up legally without them? Anyone know? I figured it's worth a shot since I haven't received any official notice yet?

My contract reads as follows:

Either the parent(s) or the provider may terminate this contract at any time by giving two weeks notice in advance of the ending date. Payment by the parent(s) is due for the notice period, whether or not the child is brought to the provider for care. blah blah blah.

I took it to mean that they will owe two full weeks no matter what when notice is given (whether or not I am on vacation or they simply choose to not bring the child). I really don't want to give up a weeks pay. The other thing I thought of....I do get holiday pay for Thanksgiving. They could give notice by tomorrow night and not have to pay anything beyond next week if they wanted to do so. Why do I feel like I am about to get screwed?

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I have in my handbook that I only accept 2 weeks notice on Friday's and no notice is to be given on holiday's(any that fall on Friday) or providers vacation. This way if you were to be given a 2 weeks notice, you can start advertising on Saturday and you will have 16 days to find replacement. When my new handbooks come out in May, i am going to require a 3 week notice. Also I can terminate at anytime. I have only had 1 parent to give me notice and she gave me a 3 week notice. But she is back with me after taking some NEEDED time off school.

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how did your write your revisions policy?

I have it worded that all changes made to the PHB will be given to parents to review and return signed within 14 days, unless it is a new LIC or State regulation, then it would go into effect immediately without the requirement of a signature.

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No, I think you should just start looking to fill the spot.

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Totally agree! I wouldn't say anything. I don't accept termination papers during vacations or on weekends. I have taken quite a few to a collection agency AND have been paid.
On a side note: Take a paid vacation! I take 10 days throughout the year. They are days most of my dc parents have off anyways. You deserve a paid vacay!

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I can go a year in between calling a parent at work.. but this one would do it.

I would call her and ask tell her that little Johnny said he will be going to a new child care tonight and ask her if that is going to be a daytime child care.

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try asking the child. If he was able to tell you that much maybe he knows more.

It sounds like back up care but it wouldn't hurt to ask nicely at pick up.

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Who is caring for them during your vacation? Do you think that its possible that they are simply going to go visit the daycare that is providing back up for your vacation?

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nah, they have always and forever gone to family members. There are plenty. I will let you all know as soon as I know anything. Thanks for the support!

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Any news yet? I'm stressed for you, just knowing how you must be feeling. We just lost 4 full time children within 1 week of each other. sibling pairs: one mom lost job, another decided we were too far for her (they'd only been here about a month, but filling two spots with that family was MUCH needed). Now we have to fill 4 spots...and around here, filling spots is nearly impossible. It took several months to fill the last two spots. Plus we get a little attached to the children, so it's always hard to see them go
I hope your's is just a misunderstanding on the child's part. Did he seem happy about it, or even a little sad to be leaving you? That's what would bother me most, although it probably shouldn't. That and the fact that the parents weren't completely open with me...

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Thank you for sharing my stress! I'll be all better after drop off today so will be back on after the kids get on the bus this a.m.!

that is awful that you had 4 to fill. And yes, we do get attached to the kids. They become like our own family despite the parents attitudes and actions. Let's all try to have an awesome day!

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so not a word from mom at drop off. sorry..typing one-handed.... but this a.m. boy tells me he loves his new daycare because it has more boys to play with and different games. he told me he is starting there after christmas so he still gets his gift from me
i handed out term clause revision so will see what happens.

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You're kidding right?! I wonder if that is intentional or not...I mean why would they wait until THEN to start... So....are you going to term them? Or keep them and pretend like you know nothing? I would have a hard time keeping them and pretending like nothing is wrong, and I sure wouldn't be buying a christmas present..especially if that is all they are hanging around for kwim?

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Yah, that's crazy.... I would make sure if I gave something it would be a $1 store something..what in the world?

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I am wondering why this bothers you so much. I get that it sucks hearing it from the kid, but the parent really hasn't done anything wrong here. They haven't bailed on you without payment. They have simply interviewed at a new daycare. Why would you term someone when they haven't given you a legitimite reason to do so? They still have AMPLE time to give you that two week notice IF they are really planning to leave. You are listening to a child who could misinterpret anything. Also, why should a family NOT interview other providers to see if there is a better fit for thier family....why should they be expected to stay with one provider for the long haul if that provider is not meeting their needs?

THIS type of situation and the preemptive attitude and "to term or not" is one of the reasons why parents do not respect child care providers - and it is getting quite tiresome.

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I agree with this. I know it sucks, and it's hard to look them in the face and know that they are doing something like this, but they are not doing anything wrong.

You know they are leaving, so try find a family to have lined up for January. I don't see anything wrong with them finishing the year with you, and switching come the new year, it's better than them switching at the end of the year in the holiday season.

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Rather than create all this drama for yourself, why don't you just ask the parents what is going on?

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While I do understand that parents have the freedom to "go look elsewhere" at any time, with me, it is a bond that is formed with a family. On the flip side of it, what if providers termed a family everytime they had a "better opportunity come up" for a different family? I have passed up over and over again a full time child because a part time child was taking a spot and I didn't have room. I have never termed a family to bring in "a better family" whether it be due to hours/days/etc.

I know for me, I bring in a family with the goal to have the child till they go to school.

Because I have been burned recently by a family leaving with no notice after having their 2 children 7 years and 5 years, I am reconsidering how I do things, as I am learning that people only do what is in their best interest with no concern about the provider and the effects on them. Translation.....I need to start doing what is best for my business/income, and not worry about terming someone who is part time when the opportunity for a better prospect calls.....unfortunately I have more respect for my business and myself, and find that kind of bussiness move not to my best interest.

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...because I am human and have feelings and love the kid to pieces. I have spent more time with this little guy in the past 3 years than either of his parents put together. Because I have bent over backwards for these parents and put up with all of their shenanigans, lateness, craziness, entitlement, lack of parenting, for 3 plus years. Because I needed to vent on this board and get the advice of all of you. I know I am NOT alone in the way I feel.

And yes, they can go interview somewhere else...but for crying out loud, be honest about it and don't let me find it out from a child and then still ask me for more concessions in the way I run my business. I do meet their needs, they want SPECIAL (as NannyDe puts it) and they get as much special as I can muster but I know deep down why they are leaving....they are leaving because I finally got a backbone and had a rate increase. They are leaving because I will not let them cause drama in my daycare home any longer. They are leaving because they want drama and they can get it for a little while until the new provider puts his/her foot down and sends them on their way. This set of parents thrives on drama.

You struck a nerve here. I am not holding these people hostage. I just know how the parents operate and I know I am going to get screwed somehow. Just frustrates me.

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Honey...I really do feel for you...this is def. a situation that is pulls at my heart strings. It's terrible to feel the way you do. But your prolonging it bc you won't just address the issue right away. Here is the first mistake you made...after dcb told you about new daycare and the family came to pick up...you never once ask point blank about the rumor of a new daycare. Your stressing your self out bc you didn't take the time to investigate truly what is going on. You don't know for sure what is happening. Not until you find out from speaking to the parents. You should of addressed it right away and then TOLD them what you where going to do about it. Yes, they could switch him after the holidays which is ashually a good thing. That would allow you time to get another child in to take over that slot. But it's really up to you at this point to take charge with what you know. If the parents haven't talked to you about it it might bc they don't know how to approach you with it. Yes, they deff. should of done it first but be the bigger person and bring it up since they haven't. Set the terms,..you already started that with the new revised policies. I am willing to bet that they know whats going on here with the revised policies and are stumped at what to do about it...lol..now, at pick up bring it up and take charge. You CAN DO IT!!!

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BTW...wheres the like button...this is a great post!!

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I wish there was a like button too...lol!! But thanks girlie!!

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I DO understand why this upsets you. I'd be both angry and hurt. It has created a hostile work enviroment, and i'd try to replace him ASAP.

But, in reality, Crystal is right. We already know parents will do what is best for them and their kids.... even if it causes us harm. I hope we would all do the same for ourselves or our family.

Try to put this all in perspective. It's a business relationship, and it's going to happen. So, while I know how hard it is, try not to take it too personally... and tell little Johnny to stop talking about it because it hurts your feelings.

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I know how this feels. and its so hard to separate our emotions when we have loved the children so much..


I just got rid of a family like this. It's our fault. If we said no from day one, we would have never had to deal with these type of people. They either would have never made it through the 2 week trail or they would have conformed to the rules.

We all make mistakes and I have had to learn this the hard way just like you too.

No matter what anyone says it hurts, we cant help it.......I am so sorry you are going through this...big hugs..

p.s. A lot of adults are no different than children. When you don't give them their way, they are going to throw a tantrum. SO don't leave any room to negotiate. From Day one it's NO, this way you don't have to take anything away.

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I get what you are saying and I think there is a lot of old school wisdom in this way of thinking........ I really do.

But... I wonder how you would feel about providers terming kids because they found a better fit.. specifically someone who paid... let's say... ten dollars more a week? How do you feel about that as far as professionalism and from the perspective of the kid?

How would you feel about the provider telling the child that the kid that was visiting was going to take their place in child care and didn't say a word to the parents... just let the kid tell them.

NOT being contentious... I'm really interested in your opinion of the same perspective inverted.

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...ok. I sent both a message a little while ago. No response. Speaks volumes.

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You really should start trying to fill his spot. Just because the child SAID after Christmas, they might be planning to pull him sooner. There's no reason to hold his spot for those few weeks, especially if you find the perfect fit right now.

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What kind of message? Perhaps they were taken a little off guard, hence the reason for no response. I am shocked that you chose to bring it up in a way that was NOT face to face......Speaks Volumes

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The parents are not held to a level of professionalism as we are. They just want pro's. My feelings on this are that the provider should address this open to the parent, as soon as you found out that PM at pick up, face to face. If they are leaving ask why. If you want to keep the child ask if there is anything you can do on your part to have the family stay with you. If they are set on leaving, wish them well and explain to them they have two weeks, and you will keep them till January as long as the spot does not become filled. You need to do what you have to do to replace them- try to be fair. Don't treat the child different, he is just a child. Learn from it and move on.

Nan I think I see where you are coming from on this.....if you want to be treated as professional and respected for your line of work, you need to behave as a professional, even when it is not always fair

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I'm not asking from the parents point of view. I hadn't considered whether the parents would think it was appropriate or proffessional.

I'm asking specifically if we should JUST be concerned that advising them of our replacing them could be done through their child as long as WE give them the notice WE have agreed to give (when it is right for us timing wise) and that our primary consideration should always be what is the best fit for us even when it means letting the family go when they haven't done anything to warrant it... it's just best for us (which would almost always be the money is better and the time is better)

If that isn't appropriate then why? As long as we give the notice we agreed to should it matter WHY and should we be able to advise them of this thru the child.

I'm thinking specifically if we would interview a new child and decide the money or time was better for us... and then say to the existing child... "this is Johnny... he is going to take your place in the day care. You get to go to a NEW day care little buddy or maybe your Mommy will stay home with you..... isn't that exciting? Johnny is going to love coming here and you will love your new day care". And then... wait until it is time to give the notice and not discuss with parents should their child bring up their new day care and their meeting little Johnny.

Should it make ANY difference if the parent tells the child they are going to a new day care or WE tell them when WE have found a better fit?

In the end... does it really matter who tells the kid and who decides? If it's no big deal it should be no big deal either way... as long as everyone gives notice and provides payment and good care in the meantime... shouldn't it be as relaxed as all that? The parent isn't obligated to be open about it with the provider. Should the provider feel obligated to be open about it with the parent? Should the provider feel free to tell the child and not appraise the parent of it until the provider is ready to give the notice?

In the end... it's not really that big of a deal as long as everyone gives notice as they agreed. It shouldn't matter if the kid finds out before the provider or the kid finds out before the parent. As long as the decision is made on what's the best fit for either side... and notice is given... What difference does it really make? We should ALL do what is best fit for US?

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How old is this child? What if the parents are just doing all this, playing the child along, knowing he will say something to seee if the provider will change her policies. What if they aren't really planning on leaving but seeing if the op will say anything to them and then they can start the discusion of getting there way.

For a child to say that he isn't leaving till after Christmas seems odd because for a child even the next month 1/2 will seem like an eternity. It seems like they would make it much closer so that it seems more real! Something isn't adding up.

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About 7 years ago I had a family who I had had for 5 years. Mom comes to me, they are leaving. The center down the street charges 1$ per week less per child. $3 per week. 12$ per month.

I lost them for 12$ per month. When they called 3 weeks later asking to come back. ( 2 er visits from injury @ center, 2 days of mom having to come pick the oldest up FROM ME because he escaped and ran away home to me) and when I told her no I didn't have room, I WAS CALLED COLD UNCARING AND UNFEELING!!

Now did I Deserve that oh no I did not. She sold out for 12$

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Lets put it this way, and this is how I would feel about it.

DCM went behind the provider's back and found a new daycare for DCB.

Provider is now feeling, what did I do wrong? and she is now second guessing herself as a good DC provider and a good person in general.

DC provider's feelings are HURT.

DCM had no intention of telling DC provider what her plans were.

DC provider is now feeling angry, resentful, hurt, and is wondering WTH do I do now?

DC provider needs to tell this DCM you are done as of this day, you still need to pay me my 2 week fee, if not see you in court.

Good bye DCB, you will be missed and good luck in your new dayhome.

End of story.

Im sorry but I cant stand all of the, Well maybe you should do this, maybe you should do that, blah blah,blah.

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Amen! Enough said.

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That happened to me, too. I knew the kid was leaving in sept because i told the parents i couldnt hold a full day spot just for their kid in half day kindy and when there was no school. In June the kid said something about the new daycare, ok in sept. then the mom asked me if she could change hours and I said yes but couldnt give her a big discount because the kid would still take up a full time slot. she said that she would see what else she could do. then she said the kid was going on vaca for a week. I said at the end of that week to bring bathing suit when she comes back and was told she was going to spend the rest of the summer at her uncles house! thanks to facebook I knew that wasnt true. she owed for the vaca week and 2 weeks notice and I never heard from them again!

Dont take any of it personal because they go where the money is best! I couldnt give her a deal, so she left! and this is a lady who would make special trips to pay me and had my daughter over for sleep overs, and even did a lice treatment on my daughter when I found one bug in her hair. Friendship only lasts when it works when it works for them!

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I would start advertising. What parents don't get is, is that we don't have people knocking on our door looking for spots. This is why we ask for notice. Its rare that any of us are doing it "because we need something to do" many of us need the income, so we need to have always have a back up plan or family. I suggest that you don't get in the middle of their custody battle, sounds like its going to get ugly.

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I am glad that you finally know what is going on. It should relieve part of the stress and drama.

I would stay out of their custody battle. I did that once in my late teens and it quickly got turned back on me when the judge asked why I didn't report things to CPS. I didn't even know CPS existed. Never again.

Yes, I would start advertising.

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