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  #1  
Old 03-16-2012, 08:15 AM
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Default What Is Wrong With Kids These Days?

Honestly, in reading other posts here and other places, I dont' have all the bad kids, lol. So, why so many behavioral issues, attention issues, etc? Is it all the technology overload? Insufficient nutrients in food? Too many immunizations? Parenting problems? Man, one day there will not be a person physically or emotionally able to care for more than 1 or 2 kids at a time if it progresses! It is amazing how simple the rules can be, yet, they misbehave and choose not to listen and get into trouble over and over an over. It is tiring! TGIF!
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Old 03-16-2012, 09:01 AM
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What a great post....What is wrong? Discipline has totally been taken away from children. Everyone is so worried about hurting their feelings, telling them no, don't want to give them boundries, so many have construde discipline in to thinking it is child abuse, which in itself is asinine. The behaviors of todays kids are a direct result of poor parenting, and poor discipline. Not disciplining a child is just as bad a child abuse. When they took discipline out of the schools, then don't allow a daycare provider to discipline a child that is in their care for 10 hours 5 days a week. Seriously, what does society expect. And no, putting a child in time out for the minutes they are old is not discipline, it is laughable though. And redirecting, another laughable moment in my day.

Everything is given a crazy label. A child misbehaves, he is labeled so then he has an excuse for the bad behavior, instead of the parent stepping up and being a parent. It has been a rough day so far. I hear ya on misbehaved kids. ***. Is is 5 0'clock yet? Each year that passes, the situation gets worse.
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Old 03-16-2012, 09:02 AM
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yes it is tiring! But most of us have normal kids with normal parents in our care, we just dont post or vent about them

I think the biggest thing is that there is no prep work done by most parents when they beginning parenting journeys. They just do what is easiest now, fly by the seat of their pants, dont think about the consequences for their parenting style. As the Baby Whisperer puts it....."accidental parenting"
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Old 03-16-2012, 09:07 AM
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I think the biggest thing is that there is no prep work done by most parents when they beginning parenting journeys. They just do what is easiest now, fly by the seat of their pants, dont think about the consequences for their parenting style. As the Baby Whisperer puts it....."accidental parenting"
Yes, I agree that a lot of parents just do whatever is easiest since the majority of a child's awake time is spent with someone else.

First daycare, then school, then workplace and eventually spouse. Those places are the ones who are having to address the fallout from these "quick fixes" that parents have become reliant upon to make it through the day.

So basically my answer to this issue is lack of face-time with their parent.

If the parent (and NOT the daycare, school, workplace and spouse) had to suffer the consequences of these short term fixes for long term problems, there would a whole lot less issues with kids.
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Old 03-16-2012, 09:20 AM
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It seems like most of my parents waited until they were older to have kids. They all seem to still be stuck in the "all about me" phase, like when they didn't have kids.

Now, they are not making the time for their kids. One of my dcM says all the time, UGH I hate that they put my show on at 9pm, same time DCK goes to bed. SO now DCK stays up and watches it with me and I just let him fall asleep on the couch.... HUH I asked her is the tv show really that much more important? SHe rolled her eyes and said it's what I wait for all day. I told her to get tivo...lol

UGH......
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Old 03-16-2012, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by mac60 View Post
What a great post....What is wrong? Discipline has totally been taken away from children. Everyone is so worried about hurting their feelings, telling them no, don't want to give them boundries, so many have construde discipline in to thinking it is child abuse, which in itself is asinine. The behaviors of todays kids are a direct result of poor parenting, and poor discipline. Not disciplining a child is just as bad a child abuse. When they took discipline out of the schools, then don't allow a daycare provider to discipline a child that is in their care for 10 hours 5 days a week. Seriously, what does society expect. And no, putting a child in time out for the minutes they are old is not discipline, it is laughable though. And redirecting, another laughable moment in my day.

Everything is given a crazy label. A child misbehaves, he is labeled so then he has an excuse for the bad behavior, instead of the parent stepping up and being a parent. It has been a rough day so far. I hear ya on misbehaved kids. ***. Is is 5 0'clock yet? Each year that passes, the situation gets worse.
Sooo....you feel that spanking is the only acceptable course of action for every single infraction a child can possibly commit? May I ask how you ever teach a child how they are supposed to behave? You do know that children aren't born perfect, right?

Redirection has its place. Time out has its place. Sure, they have to be used correctly and many people don't...apparently YOU don't. But if you took the time to open your mind and LEARN how to implement these techniques correctly, to learn to, perhaps, respect children, and understand children, and understand that children need to be TAUGHT not punished, maybe you would have better luck.

SOME of us never spank and have perfectly wonderfully behaved children. SOME of us happily find the labels that explain the misbehavior...and then work to get around the behavior within the context of the larger challenge.
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Old 03-16-2012, 09:40 AM
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so agreed!! 3yrs ago I was gona start my own home daycare well this very thing is why i changed my mind! I was like kids are just so bad these days and you cant discipline them and obviously the parents dont do it! but i decided 2 weeks ago Child Care is my calling and I am just gona have to come up with a discipline plan for the children and if i have to much trouble with a child then I will have to let the parent know their child is no longer welcome back and why
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Old 03-16-2012, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by SilverSabre25 View Post
Sooo....you feel that spanking is the only acceptable course of action for every single infraction a child can possibly commit? May I ask how you ever teach a child how they are supposed to behave? You do know that children aren't born perfect, right?

Redirection has its place. Time out has its place. Sure, they have to be used correctly and many people don't...apparently YOU don't. But if you took the time to open your mind and LEARN how to implement these techniques correctly, to learn to, perhaps, respect children, and understand children, and understand that children need to be TAUGHT not punished, maybe you would have better luck.

SOME of us never spank and have perfectly wonderfully behaved children. SOME of us happily find the labels that explain the misbehavior...and then work to get around the behavior within the context of the larger challenge.
Mac 60 didnt mention anything about spanking. I think you are jumping to conclusions a bit. She said children are lacking discipline. Discipline is not spanking, its concequences for your actions, and learning respect. In the dictionary it is described as "punishment, instruction, traingin that corrects, molds or perfects the mental faculties or moral character, control gained by enforcing obedience or order".
There are many forms of discipline that do not involve spanking, or time outs, or re-direction.
I completely agree with her post. Children today lack discipline, respect and consequences. They know they can get away with whatever they want, because they know nothing will happen to them.

In my home if a child hits, then he is removed from the other children and not allowed to participate in the fun we are having. My child misbehaved at school, and he had to write an apology to his teacher, then lost all his tv/video game/ outside playtime for the weeked. If a child isnt sharing toys, then the toy he isnt sharing is removed and he no longer has that toy to play with. If a child refuses to put on his shoes (6 years old), then he gets to walk to the bus stop without shoes, and his feet get cold. If a child throws a fit because he got a blue lollipop, and he wanted a red one, then he doesnt get a lollipop at all, and gets to watch his friends eat them while he has none.

Its about consequences, and learning what happens when you misbehave. Just last night I saw a child, about 3 throwing a huge knock down drag out hissy fit in Mcdonalds because he didnt like the toy he got in his happy meal. He was yelling, screaming and throwing himself on the floor. Guess what mom did, went up to the counter and asked for a different toy. Guess what that taught that boy. That if he acts like that, he gets what he wants.

Parents are so afraid to say no, to deprive their kids, or just too tired to deal with it. They need to be firm, and consistant.
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Old 03-16-2012, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meganlavonnesmommy View Post
Mac 60 didnt mention anything about spanking. I think you are jumping to conclusions a bit. She said children are lacking discipline. Discipline is not spanking, its concequences for your actions, and learning respect. In the dictionary it is described as "punishment, instruction, traingin that corrects, molds or perfects the mental faculties or moral character, control gained by enforcing obedience or order".
There are many forms of discipline that do not involve spanking, or time outs, or re-direction.
I completely agree with her post. Children today lack discipline, respect and consequences. They know they can get away with whatever they want, because they know nothing will happen to them.

In my home if a child hits, then he is removed from the other children and not allowed to participate in the fun we are having. My child misbehaved at school, and he had to write an apology to his teacher, then lost all his tv/video game/ outside playtime for the weeked. If a child isnt sharing toys, then the toy he isnt sharing is removed and he no longer has that toy to play with. If a child refuses to put on his shoes (6 years old), then he gets to walk to the bus stop without shoes, and his feet get cold. If a child throws a fit because he got a blue lollipop, and he wanted a red one, then he doesnt get a lollipop at all, and gets to watch his friends eat them while he has none.

Its about consequences, and learning what happens when you misbehave. Just last night I saw a child, about 3 throwing a huge knock down drag out hissy fit in Mcdonalds because he didnt like the toy he got in his happy meal. He was yelling, screaming and throwing himself on the floor. Guess what mom did, went up to the counter and asked for a different toy. Guess what that taught that boy. That if he acts like that, he gets what he wants.

Parents are so afraid to say no, to deprive their kids, or just too tired to deal with it. They need to be firm, and consistant.
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Old 03-16-2012, 10:03 AM
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I really do honestly think it is something else in addition to parenting though. There are so many kids with attention issues and etc. So many with delays. Why? I know our foods are so depleted. The number of immunizations given to kids is going up all the time. Kids don't know how to just "play" without something electronic telling them what to do or HOW to play. Sad. I am slowly getting rid of battery operated toys. I can't stand it. Parents are always saying "He/she is fussy/tired, might be a good movie/cartoon day." We hardly EVER watch tv. Not that it is all bad, I love to watch some tv, as sometimes I need some time to shut off my brain. But there is SOOOOOO much technology. Too much. What ever happened to hours of riding bikes, playing ball, hide and seek? Ugh. Guess I am just tired of the "I'm bored" "We have nothing to do" attitude.
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Old 03-16-2012, 10:05 AM
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too much screen time and entertaining toys is definitely part of the issue!
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Old 03-16-2012, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meganlavonnesmommy View Post
Mac 60 didnt mention anything about spanking. I think you are jumping to conclusions a bit. She said children are lacking discipline. Discipline is not spanking, its concequences for your actions, and learning respect. In the dictionary it is described as "punishment, instruction, traingin that corrects, molds or perfects the mental faculties or moral character, control gained by enforcing obedience or order".
There are many forms of discipline that do not involve spanking, or time outs, or re-direction.
I completely agree with her post. Children today lack discipline, respect and consequences. They know they can get away with whatever they want, because they know nothing will happen to them.

In my home if a child hits, then he is removed from the other children and not allowed to participate in the fun we are having. My child misbehaved at school, and he had to write an apology to his teacher, then lost all his tv/video game/ outside playtime for the weeked. If a child isnt sharing toys, then the toy he isnt sharing is removed and he no longer has that toy to play with. If a child refuses to put on his shoes (6 years old), then he gets to walk to the bus stop without shoes, and his feet get cold. If a child throws a fit because he got a blue lollipop, and he wanted a red one, then he doesnt get a lollipop at all, and gets to watch his friends eat them while he has none.

Its about consequences, and learning what happens when you misbehave. Just last night I saw a child, about 3 throwing a huge knock down drag out hissy fit in Mcdonalds because he didnt like the toy he got in his happy meal. He was yelling, screaming and throwing himself on the floor. Guess what mom did, went up to the counter and asked for a different toy. Guess what that taught that boy. That if he acts like that, he gets what he wants.

Parents are so afraid to say no, to deprive their kids, or just too tired to deal with it. They need to be firm, and consistant.
I agree mac 60 didn't say anything about spanking.

I also agree that many of my parents are all about "me" time as well. They take days, sometimes weeks, off of work to stay at home and have time to themselves and never spend an extra minute with their children.
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Old 03-16-2012, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meganlavonnesmommy View Post
Mac 60 didnt mention anything about spanking. I think you are jumping to conclusions a bit. She said children are lacking discipline. Discipline is not spanking, its concequences for your actions, and learning respect. In the dictionary it is described as "punishment, instruction, traingin that corrects, molds or perfects the mental faculties or moral character, control gained by enforcing obedience or order".
There are many forms of discipline that do not involve spanking, or time outs, or re-direction.
I completely agree with her post. Children today lack discipline, respect and consequences. They know they can get away with whatever they want, because they know nothing will happen to them.

In my home if a child hits, then he is removed from the other children and not allowed to participate in the fun we are having. My child misbehaved at school, and he had to write an apology to his teacher, then lost all his tv/video game/ outside playtime for the weeked. If a child isnt sharing toys, then the toy he isnt sharing is removed and he no longer has that toy to play with. If a child refuses to put on his shoes (6 years old), then he gets to walk to the bus stop without shoes, and his feet get cold. If a child throws a fit because he got a blue lollipop, and he wanted a red one, then he doesnt get a lollipop at all, and gets to watch his friends eat them while he has none.

Its about consequences, and learning what happens when you misbehave. Just last night I saw a child, about 3 throwing a huge knock down drag out hissy fit in Mcdonalds because he didnt like the toy he got in his happy meal. He was yelling, screaming and throwing himself on the floor. Guess what mom did, went up to the counter and asked for a different toy. Guess what that taught that boy. That if he acts like that, he gets what he wants.

Parents are so afraid to say no, to deprive their kids, or just too tired to deal with it. They need to be firm, and consistant.
Another vote

Discussions like this are already hot button issues - we should think twice about jumping to conclusions (not to mention on our soapboxes ) about another poster's intent.
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Old 03-16-2012, 11:06 AM
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In defense of Silver......mac60's post implied spanking, and based on her previous posts as a member here, it is known that she does think spanking is appropriate and neccessary discipline.

I personally never used spanking as a tool for managing behavior, but do not judge those who do......it's a personal choice for parents. So long as it doesn't cross the line into abuse, then it's up to the parent. However, I would never recommend it or do it myself and I think as a provider recommending spanking, well, it would make me wonder, as a parent, if I want my child in the care of a person who believes spanking is the form of discipline that is most effective.
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Old 03-16-2012, 11:07 AM
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I really do honestly think it is something else in addition to parenting though. There are so many kids with attention issues and etc. So many with delays. Why? I know our foods are so depleted. The number of immunizations given to kids is going up all the time. Kids don't know how to just "play" without something electronic telling them what to do or HOW to play. Sad. I am slowly getting rid of battery operated toys. I can't stand it. Parents are always saying "He/she is fussy/tired, might be a good movie/cartoon day." We hardly EVER watch tv. Not that it is all bad, I love to watch some tv, as sometimes I need some time to shut off my brain. But there is SOOOOOO much technology. Too much. What ever happened to hours of riding bikes, playing ball, hide and seek? Ugh. Guess I am just tired of the "I'm bored" "We have nothing to do" attitude.
I have a kid here (almost 4y) and I can't have anything with electronics because he will just sit there and press the button over and over and over, etc. It's like he needs the noise. I just took away my leapfrog letter magnets and a toaster that dinged when the toast was done because he didn't 'play' with it just pressed the button. My cash register the kids had same thing. I do have a play mixer that I did leave because the other kids love to play baking but when ever he has it I just remind him if he's not baking put it down. (he'll just turn it on and listen to it) I know he and his sibling watch tons of tv.

I feel that the biggest thing that needs to change is kids/adults need to learn that they don't always get their way. I think that's why there is so much crime. I want it so I'll do what ever I can to get it.
If every child comes out of my childcare knowing just that I will be happy. (sadly I try with a few but every Monday I have to start all over)
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Old 03-16-2012, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by SilverSabre25 View Post
Sooo....you feel that spanking is the only acceptable course of action for every single infraction a child can possibly commit? May I ask how you ever teach a child how they are supposed to behave? You do know that children aren't born perfect, right?

Redirection has its place. Time out has its place. Sure, they have to be used correctly and many people don't...apparently YOU don't. But if you took the time to open your mind and LEARN how to implement these techniques correctly, to learn to, perhaps, respect children, and understand children, and understand that children need to be TAUGHT not punished, maybe you would have better luck.

SOME of us never spank and have perfectly wonderfully behaved children. SOME of us happily find the labels that explain the misbehavior...and then work to get around the behavior within the context of the larger challenge.
ITA.
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Old 03-16-2012, 11:23 AM
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Honestly, in reading other posts here and other places, I dont' have all the bad kids, lol. So, why so many behavioral issues, attention issues, etc? Is it all the technology overload? Insufficient nutrients in food? Too many immunizations? Parenting problems? Man, one day there will not be a person physically or emotionally able to care for more than 1 or 2 kids at a time if it progresses! It is amazing how simple the rules can be, yet, they misbehave and choose not to listen and get into trouble over and over an over. It is tiring! TGIF!
d). All of the above

Kids these days dont have enough parental influence. Both parents are forced to work long hours, and then when they get home they have to (especially the moms) cook, clean, care for the kids, pay the bills, etc etc. People are overwhelmed, and they are just too tired to make the effort to discipline their kids. I know personally, there are some days where I tell DH at the end of the day that I am done parenting for the day, and that he has to take over. (This means that he does the bedtime routine and I get to shower in peace- a rare luxury)! I am lucky that (although he doesn't do it the way I would want it done), he is willing to help. A lot of moms aren't so lucky. It takes a village to raise a child.... these days, we providers are managing villages of kids!
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Old 03-16-2012, 11:47 AM
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I am CONVINCED that some of it at least is food related. I buy probably 85 to 90% organic. I made home made organic baked fries today with sea salt. They were amazing! Soooooooo good! The kids wouldn't eat them. One of the boys said, "What are these?" I said, french fries. He said, "They don't look like McDonald's fries."
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Old 03-16-2012, 11:53 AM
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It takes a village to raise a child.... these days, we providers are managing villages of kids!
OMGoodness. That is the funniest thing I have heard all week!
Well said!
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Old 03-16-2012, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mac60 View Post
What a great post....What is wrong? Discipline has totally been taken away from children. Everyone is so worried about hurting their feelings, telling them no, don't want to give them boundries, so many have construde discipline in to thinking it is child abuse, which in itself is asinine. The behaviors of todays kids are a direct result of poor parenting, and poor discipline. Not disciplining a child is just as bad a child abuse. When they took discipline out of the schools, then don't allow a daycare provider to discipline a child that is in their care for 10 hours 5 days a week. Seriously, what does society expect. And no, putting a child in time out for the minutes they are old is not discipline, it is laughable though. And redirecting, another laughable moment in my day.

Everything is given a crazy label. A child misbehaves, he is labeled so then he has an excuse for the bad behavior, instead of the parent stepping up and being a parent. It has been a rough day so far. I hear ya on misbehaved kids. ***. Is is 5 0'clock yet? Each year that passes, the situation gets worse.
You read my mind!
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Old 03-16-2012, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meganlavonnesmommy View Post
Mac 60 didnt mention anything about spanking. I think you are jumping to conclusions a bit. She said children are lacking discipline. Discipline is not spanking, its concequences for your actions, and learning respect. In the dictionary it is described as "punishment, instruction, traingin that corrects, molds or perfects the mental faculties or moral character, control gained by enforcing obedience or order".
There are many forms of discipline that do not involve spanking, or time outs, or re-direction.
I completely agree with her post. Children today lack discipline, respect and consequences. They know they can get away with whatever they want, because they know nothing will happen to them.

In my home if a child hits, then he is removed from the other children and not allowed to participate in the fun we are having. My child misbehaved at school, and he had to write an apology to his teacher, then lost all his tv/video game/ outside playtime for the weeked. If a child isnt sharing toys, then the toy he isnt sharing is removed and he no longer has that toy to play with. If a child refuses to put on his shoes (6 years old), then he gets to walk to the bus stop without shoes, and his feet get cold. If a child throws a fit because he got a blue lollipop, and he wanted a red one, then he doesnt get a lollipop at all, and gets to watch his friends eat them while he has none.

Its about consequences, and learning what happens when you misbehave. Just last night I saw a child, about 3 throwing a huge knock down drag out hissy fit in Mcdonalds because he didnt like the toy he got in his happy meal. He was yelling, screaming and throwing himself on the floor. Guess what mom did, went up to the counter and asked for a different toy. Guess what that taught that boy. That if he acts like that, he gets what he wants.

Parents are so afraid to say no, to deprive their kids, or just too tired to deal with it. They need to be firm, and consistant.
This! The child at McDonalds should have had his meal thrown in the garbage and taken straight home. Parents have been brow beaten into thinking they must make the child happy under any circumstances.
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Old 03-16-2012, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crystal View Post
In defense of Silver......mac60's post implied spanking, and based on her previous posts as a member here, it is known that she does think spanking is appropriate and neccessary discipline.

I personally never used spanking as a tool for managing behavior, but do not judge those who do......it's a personal choice for parents. So long as it doesn't cross the line into abuse, then it's up to the parent. However, I would never recommend it or do it myself and I think as a provider recommending spanking, well, it would make me wonder, as a parent, if I want my child in the care of a person who believes spanking is the form of discipline that is most effective.
Amazing how someone who has never met me and lives on the other side of the country can state things about people. What I say, post, etc, doesn't mean I do it, I really wish you wouldn't try to "elaborate" on what I do considering you don't know me nor have ever met me.
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Old 03-16-2012, 12:12 PM
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Time out is a joke.

Three minutes in time out for a 3 year old hitting another child? To them it's WORTH it! Three minutes is nothing!

Then again....maybe I could use that same thinking because I don't like my next door neighbor...her cats are always in my yard.

I could slap her hard and only get 52 minutes time out!!!!! Sooooo worth it!!!!!
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Old 03-16-2012, 12:18 PM
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This is not just in the daycare world. Check out all the "Brat Ban" stories across the web. MILLIONS of people are tired of it. This is just the tip of the ice burg, it seems.
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  #25  
Old 03-16-2012, 12:19 PM
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Am I missing something? Did Mac60 not say... "When they took discipline out of the schools, then don't allow a daycare provider to discipline a child"?

The only type of disciplining I am not allowed to do as a provider is physical punishment. The only type of disciplining that is not allowed in the schools is physical punishment. So I can easily see how it could be inferred that her opinion on kids bad behavior is a direct result of not being allowed to be physically punished at schools and at daycare, or by parents for fear of being charged with child abuse.
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Old 03-16-2012, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by mac60 View Post
Amazing how someone who has never met me and lives on the other side of the country can state things about people. What I say, post, etc, doesn't mean I do it, I really wish you wouldn't try to "elaborate" on what I do considering you don't know me nor have ever met me.
I wasn't saying you spank the DCK if that is what you mean???

Honestly Mac, I don't need to "know" you. 7 years of reading your posts has told me alot about you. While I think some of the things you say and do are right on, I disagree with other things.....no different than anybody else.

But, no problem, I won't "elaborate" on what you say/do.....just know that, in this instance, I was defending Silver, not singling you out.
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Old 03-16-2012, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Meeko View Post
Time out is a joke.

Three minutes in time out for a 3 year old hitting another child? To them it's WORTH it! Three minutes is nothing!

Then again....maybe I could use that same thinking because I don't like my next door neighbor...her cats are always in my yard.

I could slap her hard and only get 52 minutes time out!!!!! Sooooo worth it!!!!!
LOL!!!!

I do agree that time out is worthless. That is why I don't use it here....it simply is not effective.

I do believe that redirection, limited choice, acknowledgement, etc. are effective if used appropriately. It works for me.

It also helps to have parents who consistently follow through with whatever form of discipline they use....I think THAT is a big reason we see so many issues.....if parents threaten continuously and then fail to follow through, the children KNOW they can run the show.
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Old 03-16-2012, 12:24 PM
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Am I missing something? Did Mac60 not say... "When they took discipline out of the schools, then don't allow a daycare provider to discipline a child"?

The only type of disciplining I am not allowed to do as a provider is physical punishment. The only type of disciplining that is not allowed in the schools is physical punishment. So I can easily see how it could be inferred that her opinion on kids bad behavior is a direct result of not being allowed to be physically punished at schools and at daycare, or by parents for fear of being charged with child abuse.
THANK YOU!!!!!! Exactly why I said it was "implied"
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Old 03-16-2012, 12:31 PM
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I am a firm believer in consequences. My kids all know how much I love them. But they also know that I stand NO nonsense.

I rarely use time out because I find 99% of the time it's useless.

Had one child who hit a buddy who then snitched on him. He did his 3 minutes in time out......then went back in the playroom and hit the victim twice as hard for snitching. Three more minutes. He wasn't bothered in the slightest and it taught him absolutely NOTHING.

But make him lose his art project that afternoon? THAT got his attention.

I'm with Mac60 100% on this one.

Nobody (including Mac!) says you have to beat a child to a pulp to discipline them! But kids today are waaaaaay under-disciplined. Of course you have the odd few who respond to time out and are little angels...but step back and look at kids as a whole and it's OBVIOUS that that approach doesn't work most of the time.

Each generation gets worse as each generation of parents are told that looking wrong at Princess will hurt her feelings......
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Old 03-16-2012, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by sahm2three View Post
Honestly, in reading other posts here and other places, I dont' have all the bad kids, lol. So, why so many behavioral issues, attention issues, etc? Is it all the technology overload? Insufficient nutrients in food? Too many immunizations? Parenting problems? Man, one day there will not be a person physically or emotionally able to care for more than 1 or 2 kids at a time if it progresses! It is amazing how simple the rules can be, yet, they misbehave and choose not to listen and get into trouble over and over an over. It is tiring! TGIF!
I might hit a hot button issue here, but I think it goes back to the women's movement. We've swung a bit too far and put women's careers ahead of our children. Children need their parents - quantity time, especially babies.

I'm not disagreeing that other things aren't playing into children's behavior these days, I agree that the electronics are out of control, and that being our child's best friend, is not in their best interests. Nutrition is another huge factor, and over medicating for ADD, ADHD can be a problem, too.

If women weren't so busy working, getting their kids to daycare, and all the extracurriculars that are required now, they could spend more time on nutrition, spending time with their children, and discipline (it is time consuming to be consistent.)
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Old 03-16-2012, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Meeko View Post
I am a firm believer in consequences. My kids all know how much I love them. But they also know that I stand NO nonsense.

I rarely use time out because I find 99% of the time it's useless.

Had one child who hit a buddy who then snitched on him. He did his 3 minutes in time out......then went back in the playroom and hit the victim twice as hard for snitching. Three more minutes. He wasn't bothered in the slightest and it taught him absolutely NOTHING.

But make him lose his art project that afternoon? THAT got his attention.

I'm with Mac60 100% on this one.

Nobody (including Mac!) says you have to beat a child to a pulp to discipline them! But kids today are waaaaaay under-disciplined. Of course you have the odd few who respond to time out and are little angels...but step back and look at kids as a whole and it's OBVIOUS that that approach doesn't work most of the time.

Each generation gets worse as each generation of parents are told that looking wrong at Princess will hurt her feelings......
I'm with Mac60 on the lack of discipline being a HUGE part of the issue too!

I will even go as far to tell you that I have on a few occasions spanked my own kids. Mostly because I told them that is what their punishment was going to be and I had to follow thru!

I am just wanting to point out that the cause of lack of discipline doesnt have anything to do with physical punishments being allowed in schools or by daycare providers. Which is what she inferred.
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Old 03-16-2012, 12:47 PM
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LOL!!!!



It also helps to have parents who consistently follow through with whatever form of discipline they use....I think THAT is a big reason we see so many issues.....if parents threaten continuously and then fail to follow through, the children KNOW they can run the show.
Amen to this! I used to tend children who lived down the road from me. Their mother would scream things like "I'm gonna put you in a (insert expletive here) body bag if you don't get outta the road!" Her kids would laugh at her and never listen because of silly threats they knew would never happen.
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  #33  
Old 03-16-2012, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Crystal View Post
In defense of Silver......mac60's post implied spanking, and based on her previous posts as a member here, it is known that she does think spanking is appropriate and neccessary discipline.

I personally never used spanking as a tool for managing behavior, but do not judge those who do......it's a personal choice for parents. So long as it doesn't cross the line into abuse, then it's up to the parent. However, I would never recommend it or do it myself and I think as a provider recommending spanking, well, it would make me wonder, as a parent, if I want my child in the care of a person who believes spanking is the form of discipline that is most effective.
Thank you, Crystal. That's exactly what I was thinking when I wrote the post--I may have only been here for 18ish months but I've seen plenty of mac's posts in defense of spanking, and several proclaiming spanking to be superior in most ways. I have seen mac write post after post about "all of today's children' and "all of today's parents" and many saying that the only thing wrong with the world is that parents don't discipline...and I want to know what she DOES consider appropriate if time outs and redirection are so "laughable".

In the meantime, Imac, am really, truly wanting answers to the questions I asked you, mac--your stance on discipline absolutely boggles my mind because it is counter to everything I personally have experienced in my life. I was RAISED in a family that abhors spanking and was RAISED with the idea that there are many better techniques. I went to a preschool that used gentle methods and has for over 30 years. I learned the gentler stuff in college and saw it work brilliantly in OSU's lab school. I watched my sisters raise their children with the SAME parenting styles we were raised with, and now I am raising my own children and daycare children with those same philosophies and I have wonderful children and daycare children who ONLY misbehave for their parents...who mostly use those "other" methods, and use them incorrectly (time outs being overused) AND they spank.

Which is why I asked you what I did. It is TOTALLY counter to my ENTIRE life. I want to understand...even if I don't agree.
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Old 03-16-2012, 12:52 PM
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I might hit a hot button issue here, but I think it goes back to the women's movement. We've swung a bit too far and put women's careers ahead of our children. Children need their parents - quantity time, especially babies.

I'm not disagreeing that other things aren't playing into children's behavior these days, I agree that the electronics are out of control, and that being our child's best friend, is not in their best interests. Nutrition is another huge factor, and over medicating for ADD, ADHD can be a problem, too.
How about one year of maternity leave, paid, with job security at the end of the year? Many other countries do that, and it would give mothers a chance to bond during that precious first year. Let's be honest, does a 6 week old newborn baby really belong with anyone else but the mother? Society has made it so that new mothers HAVE to work. The women's movement was about choice, and now most of us women don't have a choice. We have to work.

Many of us have chosen to work at home. No, it's not the same, but it's better (at least in my experience) for me to be with my children and be the one to influence them. It is a huge financial sacrafice, but at least, as working mom/daycare providers, we can be there for them.

Nutrition and over-medication are HUGE problems too. How do you expect a child to behave without adequate sleep and pumped up on chocolate milk and Burger Kind cini-minis for breakfast? (Pop a pill- that's how). These pills are restructuring their brain wiring and their brains never develop properly.
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Old 03-16-2012, 12:56 PM
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How about one year of maternity leave, paid, with job security at the end of the year? Many other countries do that, and it would give mothers a chance to bond during that precious first year. Let's be honest, does a 6 week old newborn baby really belong with anyone else but the mother? Society has made it so that new mothers HAVE to work. The women's movement was about choice, and now most of us women don't have a choice. We have to work.

Many of us have chosen to work at home. No, it's not the same, but it's better (at least in my experience) for me to be with my children and be the one to influence them. It is a huge financial sacrafice, but at least, as working mom/daycare providers, we can be there for them.

Nutrition and over-medication are HUGE problems too. How do you expect a child to behave without adequate sleep and pumped up on chocolate milk and Burger Kind cini-minis for breakfast? (Pop a pill- that's how). These pills are restructuring their brain wiring and their brains never develop properly.
I really think that it is less about society and more about people thinking they have to keep up with the joneses.....we have become a very materialistic country......women with working husbands (or vice versa) don't really HAVE to work.....they HAVE to work because of the choices they make....having to have a new car every few years, having to have the latest iphone or ipad, having to have, HAVE, HAVE......

It comes down to setting priorities........is HAVING more, more important than raising yuor family?
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Old 03-16-2012, 01:11 PM
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I really think that it is less about society and more about people thinking they have to keep up with the joneses.....we have become a very materialistic country......women with working husbands (or vice versa) don't really HAVE to work.....they HAVE to work because of the choices they make....having to have a new car every few years, having to have the latest iphone or ipad, having to have, HAVE, HAVE......

It comes down to setting priorities........is HAVING more, more important than raising yuor family?


yes! There is a monumental difference between having to work and wanting to work.
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  #37  
Old 03-16-2012, 01:16 PM
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From my experience, many parents will go to ANY length NOT to upset their child.

You don't want to wear your jacket in the snow? Okay.

You don't want to eat your veggies? Okay.

You don't want to go to sleep? Okay.

You don't want to share with your friends? Okay.

You don't want to take a bath? Okay.

I see parents cow-towing to their children almost every day. One parent (recently) was going to take off her child's jacekt and she sat there and waited because she said he responds better if she gives him time before taking it off. REALLY??? In my day, I took off my children's coats. Simple as that.

I've seen a child throw a FIT because the child wanted mommy to take her out of her car seat and not daddy. Then daddy is practically begging his little girl to forgive him for upsetting her.

The fact is, CHILDREN are in charge and that is why they don't respond well at day care. They are used to running the show at home and they will throw MASSIVE fits if not allowed to be the kings and queens that they've been told they are.
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  #38  
Old 03-16-2012, 01:30 PM
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Kids are sad and unfulfilled these days and it shows up in beahavior issues. You can discipline all you want but if you are unloading your kids into daycare 40-50 hours a week since birth its a recipe for an unhappy child. Mix in too much tech, poor diet, uneven rules...there you go. Quality family time is low on the priority list. As a PP said its "hot button", but mom needs to say home in the early years or at least keep it part time. I'll never regret the sacrifices we made for me to stay home. I know there are special circumstances, single moms, etc. but there are some families who just want things and "me time" at the cost of their kids development.
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Old 03-16-2012, 01:34 PM
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Although I think over-medicating and over-diagnosing of certain things can be part of the issue. Please be mindful when using these blanket statements about medication and ADHD.

My son has ADHD and PDD-NOS and is medicated. ONLY because we tried 500 million billion things. Medication along with specific behavior techiniques, a balanced diet, a life skills coach and amazing parents is what has made him an amazing, smart, loving young man today. (He's 10) He still has along way to go, but we are making progress, which is more than I can say when he was unmedicated.

The only reason I bring this up is because over the years, I have been ridiculed about medicating my son, or that he isnt really ADHD just need proper discipline. There is a big stigma in regards to ADHD/ADD and medication. Every parent who I have ever met with a child who has ADHD/ADD and chose medication has at one time or another felt like they needed to defend themselves against judgements.

My point just proven... I just totally defended and explained myself. I give up!
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Old 03-16-2012, 01:50 PM
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Kids are misbehaved because there is no discipline! even the parents get mad if i put their kid in a time out for 2 minutes .. ugh sorry no your kid isn't going to hit whoever and do whatever they want!!!! there are rules!!! and the parents say" oh little suzy never hits, i wonder where she got that from!" TGIF
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Old 03-16-2012, 01:51 PM
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theres nothing wrong with the children these days.
Its that everything is wrong with their parents
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  #42  
Old 03-16-2012, 02:00 PM
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theres nothing wrong with the children these days.
Its that everything is wrong with their parents
I can't like this enough.
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  #43  
Old 03-16-2012, 02:32 PM
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theres nothing wrong with the children these days.
Its that everything is wrong with their parents
Indeed! x 100,000,000!
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Old 03-16-2012, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by sahm2three View Post
Honestly, in reading other posts here and other places, I dont' have all the bad kids, lol. So, why so many behavioral issues, attention issues, etc? Is it all the technology overload? Insufficient nutrients in food? Too many immunizations? Parenting problems? Man, one day there will not be a person physically or emotionally able to care for more than 1 or 2 kids at a time if it progresses! It is amazing how simple the rules can be, yet, they misbehave and choose not to listen and get into trouble over and over an over. It is tiring! TGIF!
You said a mouthful hon!

No doesn't seem to be used enough or enforced.

It's very simple indeed. No means No.

Time to kick back and enjoy your own. Have a great weekend all!
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Old 03-16-2012, 02:45 PM
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I really think that it is less about society and more about people thinking they have to keep up with the joneses.....we have become a very materialistic country......women with working husbands (or vice versa) don't really HAVE to work.....they HAVE to work because of the choices they make....having to have a new car every few years, having to have the latest iphone or ipad, having to have, HAVE, HAVE......

It comes down to setting priorities........is HAVING more, more important than raising yuor family?
Spot On Crystal!!!!
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  #46  
Old 03-16-2012, 02:48 PM
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I haven't read all of mac60's posts so I dont know her stance on spanking. But what I did read in her post is that they took discipline out of schools and daycare settings. Yes its true, they did take physical punishment away as an option.

And they have gradually taken everything else away too.

I have so few "okay" options available to me as far as discipline. Redirection and explanation, that's about it. Timeout is considered abusive, its isolation. Loss of privileges hurts their.self esteem. Natural consequences teach them to be fearful. "No", "no-nonsense" faces or voices all intimidate them.

This, in combination with lax parenting and overstimulation as others have said, results in these behaviors we see day in and day out.

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Old 03-16-2012, 03:58 PM
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Am I missing something? Did Mac60 not say... "When they took discipline out of the schools, then don't allow a daycare provider to discipline a child"?

The only type of disciplining I am not allowed to do as a provider is physical punishment. The only type of disciplining that is not allowed in the schools is physical punishment. So I can easily see how it could be inferred that her opinion on kids bad behavior is a direct result of not being allowed to be physically punished at schools and at daycare, or by parents for fear of being charged with child abuse.
Actually, that isn't true. Educators are not allowed to "call out" a student for bad behavior as they are "shaming" the child. We are not to call attention to a child's poor behavior and I have seen children literally push an administrator and simply get sent to the "reflection" room...after all, he didn't really hit anyone.

Now, don't get me wrong. NO ONE had better lay a hand on my child; but the truth is, educators are pretty limited in what they can do by way of discipline. Teachers need to rely on parents. I had a student last week who told a teacher she was a "stupid sl*t." She then refulsed to go to the in school suspension room; administration contacted her parent. The parent told the kid to go sit in detention and she'd get $50 when she got home...

Just sayin...
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Old 03-16-2012, 04:24 PM
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Actually, that isn't true. Educators are not allowed to "call out" a student for bad behavior as they are "shaming" the child. We are not to call attention to a child's poor behavior and I have seen children literally push an administrator and simply get sent to the "reflection" room...after all, he didn't really hit anyone.

Now, don't get me wrong. NO ONE had better lay a hand on my child; but the truth is, educators are pretty limited in what they can do by way of discipline. Teachers need to rely on parents. I had a student last week who told a teacher she was a "stupid sl*t." She then refulsed to go to the in school suspension room; administration contacted her parent. The parent told the kid to go sit in detention and she'd get $50 when she got home...

Just sayin...
You just summed up parenting today, Jen....and sadly this kind of thing goes on EVERYWHERE and in HUGE numbers.
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Old 03-16-2012, 04:37 PM
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I really think that it is less about society and more about people thinking they have to keep up with the joneses.....we have become a very materialistic country......women with working husbands (or vice versa) don't really HAVE to work.....they HAVE to work because of the choices they make....having to have a new car every few years, having to have the latest iphone or ipad, having to have, HAVE, HAVE......

It comes down to setting priorities........is HAVING more, more important than raising yuor family?
I think this is true in many cases, but what about the working poor in our country? Someone making minimum wage in my state, working full-time, makes less than $18,000 per year. I don't think it's a choice for a family in that position. Both parents must work.

That doesn't excuse poor parenting, however.
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Old 03-16-2012, 04:44 PM
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I'm going to post pretty quick because I've been pretty sick this week and not alot of energy to be up but......

for those born before the 1980's really think back. Do anyone of you guys remember your friends or people in school having ADD, ADHD, Learning Disabilities, Autism, Anger Management, Problems with Authority, Sensory Issues, etc? I really, really don't remember these being issues when I was in school.

Also, immunizations were still pretty new in the 50-60's I believe and none of us seem as effected as kids today. Don't you think medicine would advance and not cause problem but have caused the problems when everything first came out?

I think its a combination of many, many things. Lack of discipline (lets be friends, not families), moms working outside the home, TECHNOLOGY, people scared to let kids be kids, diet, etc.

Heard a local story where the shop teacher was almost sued by some parents. Why, because he touched their son-what happened. The son was beating up the girlfriend at school, shop teacher tried to break it up by stopping the son. Kid was under 18 so of course they were going for the adult versus minor thing! In my day, that would have never, ever have happened. I remember when school bus drivers kicked kids off and didn't flinch because they were able. Now, school busses in my eyes are very dangerous because of the unruly kids on them.

Just my two cents, but really think about how your classmates where and when things started changing.
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Old 03-16-2012, 05:02 PM
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theres nothing wrong with the children these days.
Its that everything is wrong with their parents
You said it all!
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  #52  
Old 03-16-2012, 05:13 PM
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Natural born sinners..... who need all the guidance, love, grace, and forgiveness we can offer as natural born sinners ourselves
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Old 03-16-2012, 05:42 PM
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And this is why I don't come around here much, it is because of this type of bullying on this forum that is allowed. Then I have people saying they have been reading my post for 7 years. Really????? Seriously, people should not make assumptions, accusations, comments, etc, about people they know nothing about. If you want to disagree with what someone wrote, so be it, but do you really have to continue to bring my name up, I wasn't the only one that felt that way. In my book that is called bullying.
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  #54  
Old 03-16-2012, 06:43 PM
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Mac, you're not being bullied, but I do honestly want to know what YOU think is the appropriate way to teach children the proper way to behave. You post some very strong views on the subject but don't elaborate...I want to know.

it's not bullying to ask for clarification of someone's position.

Crystal didn't bully you either.

I'm not asking other people because YOU are the one I've been wondering about for awhile.

It's called "discussion".
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Old 03-16-2012, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by SilverSabre25 View Post
Sooo....you feel that spanking is the only acceptable course of action for every single infraction a child can possibly commit? May I ask how you ever teach a child how they are supposed to behave? You do know that children aren't born perfect, right?

Redirection has its place. Time out has its place. Sure, they have to be used correctly and many people don't...apparently YOU don't. But if you took the time to open your mind and LEARN how to implement these techniques correctly, to learn to, perhaps, respect children, and understand children, and understand that children need to be TAUGHT not punished, maybe you would have better luck.

SOME of us never spank and have perfectly wonderfully behaved children. SOME of us happily find the labels that explain the misbehavior...and then work to get around the behavior within the context of the larger challenge.
I don't normally post in these type of threads, but I've got to say - the above post does not come across as a request for a "discussion." It comes across as a patronizing put down. I can see why Mac60 would feel the way she does.

I hope I'm wrong, but that's the way it reads to me.
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Old 03-16-2012, 07:03 PM
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Mac, you're not being bullied, but I do honestly want to know what YOU think is the appropriate way to teach children the proper way to behave. You post some very strong views on the subject but don't elaborate...I want to know.

it's not bullying to ask for clarification of someone's position.

Crystal didn't bully you either.

I'm not asking other people because YOU are the one I've been wondering about for awhile.

It's called "discussion".
Of coarse you are going to say I am not being bullied, you are one of them that seems to be doing it. Fine, whatever. Seriously, I am the one you have been wondering about for a while? Again, whatever, that is just ridiculous.
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Old 03-16-2012, 07:58 PM
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Of coarse you are going to say I am not being bullied, you are one of them that seems to be doing it. Fine, whatever. Seriously, I am the one you have been wondering about for a while? Again, whatever, that is just ridiculous.
All right, I'm sorry, I withdraw the question.

I don't usually post things that make people mad but this sure does seem to be my day for making major mistakes and making people mad.

I don't recall ever having said much at all to you in the past and if one strongly phrased comment is enough to get me branded as a bully then I'm just going to slink away and hide in shame for awhile

I'm sorry.
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Old 03-17-2012, 05:39 AM
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You really seemed to have hit upon a popular topic! Two pages already!

I didn't have time to read them all, but I wanted to post on this one as well. I am almost 60 and have come through from the 50's to present. I have seen a LOT change!

When I was a kid we drove on two lane roads. We shopped for EVERYTHING at the local stores - a grocery store, a hardware store, a five and dime. Once a year we made a trip before Christmas to the "big" city (Green Bay which, believe me was not that big at that time) to be able to visit stores like JC Penny and Sears, etc.

I saw the first McyD's in our state (was 12 miles from my home), saw malls come into existence, 747's, air travel become a daily event and cars now get about the same gas mileage as back then! HAHAHAHAHA I remember when I started to drive gas would go down to 23cents a gal or lower during "gas wars" and I remember penny candies and 5cent candy bars.

In all honesty, I think what has happened to our kids - and it HAS happened, (kid's aren't the same, well, kids are but raising them is not and problems kids and adults have due to that is not) - is a general malaise about TRAINING our children. Teaching them how to behave, why to behave that way and teaching them a sense of BELONGING. Belonging to family, to community, to our country and even the world. And if it IS taught we often skip the first two or three and go straight to the country or the world. What ever happened to "it takes a community to raise a child"????

I have some wonderful kids, and wonderful families that I work with. I feel soooo blessed! Yet I see the same recurring problems with them and even with my own grandson. Basically, lack of empathy, lack of a sense of being a part of something bigger than yourself, and lack of training in how to behave.

Most of what I see comes down to that, IMO.

I took a lot of space to write a small answer, but I felt some background was in order.

WHY are we where we are? I don't think there's a single cause. This is the "ME" generation. Even my 20yo and 30yo daughters will admit that their entire generation is very "me" centered. Those of us of my generation and the previous generation have made them so. The blame can be placed squarely on our shoulders. Yet I can't put a finger(s) on the cause. Too much abundance and luxury?? I don't know. Whatever the cause, the last few generations took it and ran with it.

Honestly, I've come down to the belief that the WHY isn't as important as what we do about it. I talk to my dcm's constantly about working together to teach discipline, empathy, etc. I talk to other dcw about how behavioral characteristics are what are mostly missing from our "requirements" our "assessments" and our curriculums. And I am working hard to come up with a way to re-invent the wheel: to teach my dck about these things as a part of their dc experience - the MAIN part, not a book or unit on being "cooperative" or "truthful", but an experience that is every day, all day and that they will carry out of here as a basic part of their personality for all of their lives.

I know, it sounds too good to be true, and maybe it is. After all, I'm not the mom, only the "babysitter". But I have them more waking hours every weekday than mom does. I think I can have a lot of influence on them - hopefully for the good!

Last edited by Countrygal; 03-17-2012 at 05:42 AM. Reason: clarification
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Old 03-17-2012, 05:49 AM
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I wanted to post my opinion on discipline as well. Since I have raised one family and am starting on the second, have over 35 years experience leading church youth groups, scouting groups and 4-H groups, I feel I do have some experience!

I believe the solution is not in which discipline you use, but in how it is applied. The most importantly is IMMEDIATE and CONSISTENT, IMO.

When my kids were growing up I trained them to not respond to my requests until I yelled. I would ask nicely, lecture, count to 3, ask them to stop and think, ask again, then my voice would start to escalate. By the time it reached a certain volume, the kids knew they had to obey now or get a swat. I guess it was a form of training, but certainly not very effective, and my kids have suffered the consequences of it.

I shared that story with my dcm's yesterday. It is very true. Consequences must be IMMEDIATE. And if we don't do that and do it every time, we are training our children to not listen the first time, or second time or until some point at which we administer the consequences.

Spanking or not spanking is not the point. Time outs or not is not the point. How they are used IS the point, IMO

I'm sorry if this seems inflammatory to some, but I again state that it is only IMO. I have very strong opinions, but they are just my opinions.
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Old 03-17-2012, 11:18 AM
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I really think that it is less about society and more about people thinking they have to keep up with the joneses.....we have become a very materialistic country......women with working husbands (or vice versa) don't really HAVE to work.....they HAVE to work because of the choices they make....having to have a new car every few years, having to have the latest iphone or ipad, having to have, HAVE, HAVE......

It comes down to setting priorities........is HAVING more, more important than raising yuor family?
I so agree with you!! Well said!! People cant be thankful for what they DO have and want to focus on being unhappy on what they DONT have i used to be a person like that myself but have had a huge reality check and realize what is really important in life
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Old 03-18-2012, 07:15 AM
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I am a registered user but logged out. I am a 26 year old woman and I see the results of lack of discipline in the generation of adults I am in let alone the children that I rear.

My own dh is totally spoiled and he knows it and he SURE KNOWS that I know it. He was raised in a wealthy family, both parents worked 12 hours or more a day running a business, so there was a lack of parental involvement. When he was disciplined as a child he was yelled at and put down, I’m assuming this would have been in connection with both parents being worn out from working so much. This has caused a lot of self esteem issues for him. In an attempt to make up for not being around enough the parents (especially his mother) would ‘buy his love’ so to speak. He said he never remembers his dad ever hugging him or telling him he loved him. This has made it much harder for dh to show his love freely for others. He was never taught the value of a dollar, lived at home until he was 26 years old and still to this day doesn’t understand the concept of priorities when it comes to finances. His parent’s paid for his entire college educated, paid off any credit card debt he made along the way (which was a lot) and bought him a $20,000.00 truck when he graduated. In defense of the lack of parental involvement that his parents have they will say, “well at least we were able to give our children a good financial start at life, not a lot of others can say that.” Yes, except now I am left with a dh that needs to be taught how to survive in the real world, has major self esteem issues and took almost a year before he admittedly said he loved me. His mother ‘babied’ him, on top of paying for every single thing he has needed or simply wanted his entire life she made sure everything was done for him. Dh didn’t even know how to run a dryer when I met him, let alone mash a pot of potatoes.

Dh also has at least 20 male friends that were all raised along somewhat of the same line and all have the same adult problems now as he does.

I am also seeing this so, so much in the generation of parent’s now a days.

My own best friend has an almost 2 year old daughter that she does literally everything for. To be honest I don’t think her child spends anytime outside of mommy’s arms when mommy is around. Her daughter is still rocked to sleep at night with a bottle, walks around with a pacifier in her mouth, doesn’t know how to walk through the snow in winter boots and if she cries because she wants something whatever she wants is given to her immediately.

Although I agree that technology, insufficient nutrients from food and too many immunizations have something to do with what is wrong with children now a days. I think the bulk of it comes down to the mothers working outside the home and children not taught what it is like to be a part of a real family.

Children need a consistent reminder (consistent discipline procedures) to be taught what is right and wrong, what is acceptable and what is not acceptable. When you have 2 (or more) separate families raising one child (Mom & Dad and Provider) the consistency is much harder to keep up with as both parties most likely are not on the same page. Even if a provider was able to successfully show a child what is right and wrong, acceptable or not acceptable if the child is going home to a set of parents who are not consistently keeping up with that teaching then a child is being taught that SOMETIMES such and such is wrong and unacceptable and SOMETIMES that same thing is OK. It also makes it very confusing for a child to know which adult figure is guiding them properly and most times a child will lean towards the adult figure that lets them get away with the unacceptable action.

Parent’s now a days are selfish. They choose the luxuries over building a stable and successful family. It is not “what is wrong with kids these days,” it is, “WHAT IS WRONG WITH PARENT’S THESE DAYS!?”

Also, what ever happened to teaching children responsibilities (chores)??
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Old 03-18-2012, 07:55 AM
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I am a registered user but logged out. I am a 26 year old woman and I see the results of lack of discipline in the generation of adults I am in let alone the children that I rear.

My own dh is totally spoiled and he knows it and he SURE KNOWS that I know it. He was raised in a wealthy family, both parents worked 12 hours or more a day running a business, so there was a lack of parental involvement. When he was disciplined as a child he was yelled at and put down, I’m assuming this would have been in connection with both parents being worn out from working so much. This has caused a lot of self esteem issues for him. In an attempt to make up for not being around enough the parents (especially his mother) would ‘buy his love’ so to speak. He said he never remembers his dad ever hugging him or telling him he loved him. This has made it much harder for dh to show his love freely for others. He was never taught the value of a dollar, lived at home until he was 26 years old and still to this day doesn’t understand the concept of priorities when it comes to finances. His parent’s paid for his entire college educated, paid off any credit card debt he made along the way (which was a lot) and bought him a $20,000.00 truck when he graduated. In defense of the lack of parental involvement that his parents have they will say, “well at least we were able to give our children a good financial start at life, not a lot of others can say that.” Yes, except now I am left with a dh that needs to be taught how to survive in the real world, has major self esteem issues and took almost a year before he admittedly said he loved me. His mother ‘babied’ him, on top of paying for every single thing he has needed or simply wanted his entire life she made sure everything was done for him. Dh didn’t even know how to run a dryer when I met him, let alone mash a pot of potatoes.

Dh also has at least 20 male friends that were all raised along somewhat of the same line and all have the same adult problems now as he does.

I am also seeing this so, so much in the generation of parent’s now a days.

My own best friend has an almost 2 year old daughter that she does literally everything for. To be honest I don’t think her child spends anytime outside of mommy’s arms when mommy is around. Her daughter is still rocked to sleep at night with a bottle, walks around with a pacifier in her mouth, doesn’t know how to walk through the snow in winter boots and if she cries because she wants something whatever she wants is given to her immediately.

Although I agree that technology, insufficient nutrients from food and too many immunizations have something to do with what is wrong with children now a days. I think the bulk of it comes down to the mothers working outside the home and children not taught what it is like to be a part of a real family.

Children need a consistent reminder (consistent discipline procedures) to be taught what is right and wrong, what is acceptable and what is not acceptable. When you have 2 (or more) separate families raising one child (Mom & Dad and Provider) the consistency is much harder to keep up with as both parties most likely are not on the same page. Even if a provider was able to successfully show a child what is right and wrong, acceptable or not acceptable if the child is going home to a set of parents who are not consistently keeping up with that teaching then a child is being taught that SOMETIMES such and such is wrong and unacceptable and SOMETIMES that same thing is OK. It also makes it very confusing for a child to know which adult figure is guiding them properly and most times a child will lean towards the adult figure that lets them get away with the unacceptable action.

Parent’s now a days are selfish. They choose the luxuries over building a stable and successful family. It is not “what is wrong with kids these days,” it is, “WHAT IS WRONG WITH PARENT’S THESE DAYS!?”

Also, what ever happened to teaching children responsibilities (chores)??
Very well said.
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Old 03-19-2012, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Countrygal View Post
I wanted to post my opinion on discipline as well. Since I have raised one family and am starting on the second, have over 35 years experience leading church youth groups, scouting groups and 4-H groups, I feel I do have some experience!

I believe the solution is not in which discipline you use, but in how it is applied. The most importantly is IMMEDIATE and CONSISTENT, IMO.

When my kids were growing up I trained them to not respond to my requests until I yelled. I would ask nicely, lecture, count to 3, ask them to stop and think, ask again, then my voice would start to escalate. By the time it reached a certain volume, the kids knew they had to obey now or get a swat. I guess it was a form of training, but certainly not very effective, and my kids have suffered the consequences of it.

I shared that story with my dcm's yesterday. It is very true. Consequences must be IMMEDIATE. And if we don't do that and do it every time, we are training our children to not listen the first time, or second time or until some point at which we administer the consequences.

Spanking or not spanking is not the point. Time outs or not is not the point. How they are used IS the point, IMO

I'm sorry if this seems inflammatory to some, but I again state that it is only IMO. I have very strong opinions, but they are just my opinions.
How so? curious- not swaying one way or the other here...I have my opinions but until I am the expert then I still learn everyday. I don't see myself being the expert anytime any day soon
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Old 03-19-2012, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Countrygal View Post
I wanted to post my opinion on discipline as well. Since I have raised one family and am starting on the second, have over 35 years experience leading church youth groups, scouting groups and 4-H groups, I feel I do have some experience!

I believe the solution is not in which discipline you use, but in how it is applied. The most importantly is IMMEDIATE and CONSISTENT, IMO.

When my kids were growing up I trained them to not respond to my requests until I yelled. I would ask nicely, lecture, count to 3, ask them to stop and think, ask again, then my voice would start to escalate. By the time it reached a certain volume, the kids knew they had to obey now or get a swat. I guess it was a form of training, but certainly not very effective, and my kids have suffered the consequences of it.

I shared that story with my dcm's yesterday. It is very true. Consequences must be IMMEDIATE. And if we don't do that and do it every time, we are training our children to not listen the first time, or second time or until some point at which we administer the consequences.

Spanking or not spanking is not the point. Time outs or not is not the point. How they are used IS the point, IMO

I'm sorry if this seems inflammatory to some, but I again state that it is only IMO. I have very strong opinions, but they are just my opinions.
This is very true. Studies on children's behavior show that discipline must be effected immediately and consistently, in an environment where the children feel safe, to be effective. A delayed or inconsistent regime (spanking or not) will both prove ineffective.
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Old 03-19-2012, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
I am a registered user but logged out. I am a 26 year old woman and I see the results of lack of discipline in the generation of adults I am in let alone the children that I rear.

My own dh is totally spoiled and he knows it and he SURE KNOWS that I know it. He was raised in a wealthy family, both parents worked 12 hours or more a day running a business, so there was a lack of parental involvement. When he was disciplined as a child he was yelled at and put down, I’m assuming this would have been in connection with both parents being worn out from working so much. This has caused a lot of self esteem issues for him. In an attempt to make up for not being around enough the parents (especially his mother) would ‘buy his love’ so to speak. He said he never remembers his dad ever hugging him or telling him he loved him. This has made it much harder for dh to show his love freely for others. He was never taught the value of a dollar, lived at home until he was 26 years old and still to this day doesn’t understand the concept of priorities when it comes to finances. His parent’s paid for his entire college educated, paid off any credit card debt he made along the way (which was a lot) and bought him a $20,000.00 truck when he graduated. In defense of the lack of parental involvement that his parents have they will say, “well at least we were able to give our children a good financial start at life, not a lot of others can say that.” Yes, except now I am left with a dh that needs to be taught how to survive in the real world, has major self esteem issues and took almost a year before he admittedly said he loved me. His mother ‘babied’ him, on top of paying for every single thing he has needed or simply wanted his entire life she made sure everything was done for him. Dh didn’t even know how to run a dryer when I met him, let alone mash a pot of potatoes.

Dh also has at least 20 male friends that were all raised along somewhat of the same line and all have the same adult problems now as he does.

I am also seeing this so, so much in the generation of parent’s now a days.

My own best friend has an almost 2 year old daughter that she does literally everything for. To be honest I don’t think her child spends anytime outside of mommy’s arms when mommy is around. Her daughter is still rocked to sleep at night with a bottle, walks around with a pacifier in her mouth, doesn’t know how to walk through the snow in winter boots and if she cries because she wants something whatever she wants is given to her immediately.

Although I agree that technology, insufficient nutrients from food and too many immunizations have something to do with what is wrong with children now a days. I think the bulk of it comes down to the mothers working outside the home and children not taught what it is like to be a part of a real family.

Children need a consistent reminder (consistent discipline procedures) to be taught what is right and wrong, what is acceptable and what is not acceptable. When you have 2 (or more) separate families raising one child (Mom & Dad and Provider) the consistency is much harder to keep up with as both parties most likely are not on the same page. Even if a provider was able to successfully show a child what is right and wrong, acceptable or not acceptable if the child is going home to a set of parents who are not consistently keeping up with that teaching then a child is being taught that SOMETIMES such and such is wrong and unacceptable and SOMETIMES that same thing is OK. It also makes it very confusing for a child to know which adult figure is guiding them properly and most times a child will lean towards the adult figure that lets them get away with the unacceptable action.

Parent’s now a days are selfish. They choose the luxuries over building a stable and successful family. It is not “what is wrong with kids these days,” it is, “WHAT IS WRONG WITH PARENT’S THESE DAYS!?”

Also, what ever happened to teaching children responsibilities (chores)??
lazy world we live in. It's quicker for the parents to just do it or pay someone to do it, or to not do it and live in filth. Can't get kids to do anything else you ask them, chores- no gratification from doing chores....I could go on and on.....
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Old 03-20-2012, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
I am a registered user but logged out. I am a 26 year old woman and I see the results of lack of discipline in the generation of adults I am in let alone the children that I rear.

My own dh is totally spoiled and he knows it and he SURE KNOWS that I know it. He was raised in a wealthy family, both parents worked 12 hours or more a day running a business, so there was a lack of parental involvement. When he was disciplined as a child he was yelled at and put down, I’m assuming this would have been in connection with both parents being worn out from working so much. This has caused a lot of self esteem issues for him. In an attempt to make up for not being around enough the parents (especially his mother) would ‘buy his love’ so to speak. He said he never remembers his dad ever hugging him or telling him he loved him. This has made it much harder for dh to show his love freely for others. He was never taught the value of a dollar, lived at home until he was 26 years old and still to this day doesn’t understand the concept of priorities when it comes to finances. His parent’s paid for his entire college educated, paid off any credit card debt he made along the way (which was a lot) and bought him a $20,000.00 truck when he graduated. In defense of the lack of parental involvement that his parents have they will say, “well at least we were able to give our children a good financial start at life, not a lot of others can say that.” Yes, except now I am left with a dh that needs to be taught how to survive in the real world, has major self esteem issues and took almost a year before he admittedly said he loved me. His mother ‘babied’ him, on top of paying for every single thing he has needed or simply wanted his entire life she made sure everything was done for him. Dh didn’t even know how to run a dryer when I met him, let alone mash a pot of potatoes.

Dh also has at least 20 male friends that were all raised along somewhat of the same line and all have the same adult problems now as he does.

I am also seeing this so, so much in the generation of parent’s now a days.

My own best friend has an almost 2 year old daughter that she does literally everything for. To be honest I don’t think her child spends anytime outside of mommy’s arms when mommy is around. Her daughter is still rocked to sleep at night with a bottle, walks around with a pacifier in her mouth, doesn’t know how to walk through the snow in winter boots and if she cries because she wants something whatever she wants is given to her immediately.

Although I agree that technology, insufficient nutrients from food and too many immunizations have something to do with what is wrong with children now a days. I think the bulk of it comes down to the mothers working outside the home and children not taught what it is like to be a part of a real family.

Children need a consistent reminder (consistent discipline procedures) to be taught what is right and wrong, what is acceptable and what is not acceptable. When you have 2 (or more) separate families raising one child (Mom & Dad and Provider) the consistency is much harder to keep up with as both parties most likely are not on the same page. Even if a provider was able to successfully show a child what is right and wrong, acceptable or not acceptable if the child is going home to a set of parents who are not consistently keeping up with that teaching then a child is being taught that SOMETIMES such and such is wrong and unacceptable and SOMETIMES that same thing is OK. It also makes it very confusing for a child to know which adult figure is guiding them properly and most times a child will lean towards the adult figure that lets them get away with the unacceptable action.

Parent’s now a days are selfish. They choose the luxuries over building a stable and successful family. It is not “what is wrong with kids these days,” it is, “WHAT IS WRONG WITH PARENT’S THESE DAYS!?”

Also, what ever happened to teaching children responsibilities (chores)??
I agree completley. I have been a child care provider for 7 years, I am 27 and have no children of my own. I have plans to start a family of my own in the next three years. I will admit that I am terrified. I see my daycare children and really wonder if I would want any of them 24/7.

I feel a little better when I am reminded (thanks to your post) that children are a direct result of their parents. I feel fully confident in the 'parenting' skills I have developed in my years of childcare, and that many of my DCK's issues are a result of the choices their parents have made.

Thankfully my boyfriend and I talk a lot about our parenting goals and are always on the same page. He and I were also raised in a very similar way and I feel great about both of our values and goals.
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Old 03-20-2012, 10:43 AM
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I agree completley. I have been a child care provider for 7 years, I am 27 and have no children of my own. I have plans to start a family of my own in the next three years. I will admit that I am terrified. I see my daycare children and really wonder if I would want any of them 24/7.

I feel a little better when I am reminded (thanks to your post) that children are a direct result of their parents. I feel fully confident in the 'parenting' skills I have developed in my years of childcare, and that many of my DCK's issues are a result of the choices their parents have made.

Thankfully my boyfriend and I talk a lot about our parenting goals and are always on the same page. He and I were also raised in a very similar way and I feel great about both of our values and goals.
Having your own children is different from daycare kiddo's. It just is. You will find this out. I am trying to come up with words to explain but just can't seem to get them out.... I was going with when you have kept this baby inside of you for nine months........but also when you just love and bond with your child that is consumed by you and you by them.....completely dependent upon you......you want to all the time to be the best parent you can be, its not a job, its a love, but............... then they grow up and get sassy mouthed and ........sort of kidding. Even when they grow up and they become whatever......its a love like no other. Don't compare your daycare kiddo's to your own children- its just different. You love your daycare kiddo's but it is just different. Maybe someone else can say this in words better.

I started from scratch but some people have not started from scratch and that love is just as strong as if they did. I have done both- I know. I guess that is why I am having a hard time to word. Joy, simple joy

then again....maybe it's the zen sleep music I have going on here that is making me all mush mush...
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Old 03-20-2012, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
I am a registered user but logged out. I am a 26 year old woman and I see the results of lack of discipline in the generation of adults I am in let alone the children that I rear.

My own dh is totally spoiled and he knows it and he SURE KNOWS that I know it. He was raised in a wealthy family, both parents worked 12 hours or more a day running a business, so there was a lack of parental involvement. When he was disciplined as a child he was yelled at and put down, I’m assuming this would have been in connection with both parents being worn out from working so much. This has caused a lot of self esteem issues for him. In an attempt to make up for not being around enough the parents (especially his mother) would ‘buy his love’ so to speak. He said he never remembers his dad ever hugging him or telling him he loved him. This has made it much harder for dh to show his love freely for others. He was never taught the value of a dollar, lived at home until he was 26 years old and still to this day doesn’t understand the concept of priorities when it comes to finances. His parent’s paid for his entire college educated, paid off any credit card debt he made along the way (which was a lot) and bought him a $20,000.00 truck when he graduated. In defense of the lack of parental involvement that his parents have they will say, “well at least we were able to give our children a good financial start at life, not a lot of others can say that.” Yes, except now I am left with a dh that needs to be taught how to survive in the real world, has major self esteem issues and took almost a year before he admittedly said he loved me. His mother ‘babied’ him, on top of paying for every single thing he has needed or simply wanted his entire life she made sure everything was done for him. Dh didn’t even know how to run a dryer when I met him, let alone mash a pot of potatoes.

Dh also has at least 20 male friends that were all raised along somewhat of the same line and all have the same adult problems now as he does.

I am also seeing this so, so much in the generation of parent’s now a days.

My own best friend has an almost 2 year old daughter that she does literally everything for. To be honest I don’t think her child spends anytime outside of mommy’s arms when mommy is around. Her daughter is still rocked to sleep at night with a bottle, walks around with a pacifier in her mouth, doesn’t know how to walk through the snow in winter boots and if she cries because she wants something whatever she wants is given to her immediately.

Although I agree that technology, insufficient nutrients from food and too many immunizations have something to do with what is wrong with children now a days. I think the bulk of it comes down to the mothers working outside the home and children not taught what it is like to be a part of a real family.

Children need a consistent reminder (consistent discipline procedures) to be taught what is right and wrong, what is acceptable and what is not acceptable. When you have 2 (or more) separate families raising one child (Mom & Dad and Provider) the consistency is much harder to keep up with as both parties most likely are not on the same page. Even if a provider was able to successfully show a child what is right and wrong, acceptable or not acceptable if the child is going home to a set of parents who are not consistently keeping up with that teaching then a child is being taught that SOMETIMES such and such is wrong and unacceptable and SOMETIMES that same thing is OK. It also makes it very confusing for a child to know which adult figure is guiding them properly and most times a child will lean towards the adult figure that lets them get away with the unacceptable action.

Parent’s now a days are selfish. They choose the luxuries over building a stable and successful family. It is not “what is wrong with kids these days,” it is, “WHAT IS WRONG WITH PARENT’S THESE DAYS!?”

Also, what ever happened to teaching children responsibilities (chores)??
Very well said!
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Old 03-20-2012, 11:12 AM
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I am a mother that chose to spank my kids when they were younger when I felt it was needed.

I am also a provider that will never spank my DCK's because they are not my children. That is obviously where I draw the line.

So I dont think people need to think twice about having someone watch your children that spank their own children.

Kids nowadays need a good kick in their arse once in a while because their behavior sucks.

And the parents who let their children act this way need two good kicks.

My opinion is , is that if we use spanking as a punishment then the kids go running to CPS and cry wolf so to speak.

My stepson did this 7 times, did it work? Not a chance in HEdoublehockeysticks.

Just my honest opinion and two cents.
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Old 03-20-2012, 11:13 AM
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Another thought...it's not really about discipline so much as it is setting boundaries and meaning what you say. Haven't we all seen that mom screeching at unruly kids, threatening to not take them to McDonald's if they keep it, but mom has no intention of not taking them and they know it! We say no and we mean no and I never go back on a word with my 2 year old which has resulted in some pretty hefty tantrums at first, but he is learning and it works. My mom was stubborn and as kids we knew her word was good. I'll never forget losing privileges to watch Wizard of Oz on TV when I was 5 ( this would be 1982 folks, before vcr's & netflix). I was devestated, but what a lesson to mind mom's word. You don't need to spank or be a tyrant, just don't be a lame parent with lazy rules.
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Old 03-20-2012, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
I am a registered user but logged out. I am a 26 year old woman and I see the results of lack of discipline in the generation of adults I am in let alone the children that I rear.

My own dh is totally spoiled and he knows it and he SURE KNOWS that I know it. He was raised in a wealthy family, both parents worked 12 hours or more a day running a business, so there was a lack of parental involvement. When he was disciplined as a child he was yelled at and put down, I’m assuming this would have been in connection with both parents being worn out from working so much. This has caused a lot of self esteem issues for him. In an attempt to make up for not being around enough the parents (especially his mother) would ‘buy his love’ so to speak. He said he never remembers his dad ever hugging him or telling him he loved him. This has made it much harder for dh to show his love freely for others. He was never taught the value of a dollar, lived at home until he was 26 years old and still to this day doesn’t understand the concept of priorities when it comes to finances. His parent’s paid for his entire college educated, paid off any credit card debt he made along the way (which was a lot) and bought him a $20,000.00 truck when he graduated. In defense of the lack of parental involvement that his parents have they will say, “well at least we were able to give our children a good financial start at life, not a lot of others can say that.” Yes, except now I am left with a dh that needs to be taught how to survive in the real world, has major self esteem issues and took almost a year before he admittedly said he loved me. His mother ‘babied’ him, on top of paying for every single thing he has needed or simply wanted his entire life she made sure everything was done for him. Dh didn’t even know how to run a dryer when I met him, let alone mash a pot of potatoes.

Dh also has at least 20 male friends that were all raised along somewhat of the same line and all have the same adult problems now as he does.

I am also seeing this so, so much in the generation of parent’s now a days.

My own best friend has an almost 2 year old daughter that she does literally everything for. To be honest I don’t think her child spends anytime outside of mommy’s arms when mommy is around. Her daughter is still rocked to sleep at night with a bottle, walks around with a pacifier in her mouth, doesn’t know how to walk through the snow in winter boots and if she cries because she wants something whatever she wants is given to her immediately.

Although I agree that technology, insufficient nutrients from food and too many immunizations have something to do with what is wrong with children now a days. I think the bulk of it comes down to the mothers working outside the home and children not taught what it is like to be a part of a real family.

Children need a consistent reminder (consistent discipline procedures) to be taught what is right and wrong, what is acceptable and what is not acceptable. When you have 2 (or more) separate families raising one child (Mom & Dad and Provider) the consistency is much harder to keep up with as both parties most likely are not on the same page. Even if a provider was able to successfully show a child what is right and wrong, acceptable or not acceptable if the child is going home to a set of parents who are not consistently keeping up with that teaching then a child is being taught that SOMETIMES such and such is wrong and unacceptable and SOMETIMES that same thing is OK. It also makes it very confusing for a child to know which adult figure is guiding them properly and most times a child will lean towards the adult figure that lets them get away with the unacceptable action.

Parent’s now a days are selfish. They choose the luxuries over building a stable and successful family. It is not “what is wrong with kids these days,” it is, “WHAT IS WRONG WITH PARENT’S THESE DAYS!?”

Also, what ever happened to teaching children responsibilities (chores)??
Are you sure we dont have the same husband? LOL

My husband is exactly the same way and was raised the same way. AND to be Frank, its very hard for me to be married to someone I feel like is a manchild. HIs parents still everything for him (of course behind my back)

I agree with what you wrote 100%. I am having to teach my husband how to parent so that our child does not turn out like him. My husband listens to me with that part, so I am lucky. I just hope that my husband one day wakes up and realize that I am NOT ever going to replace his mother.
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Old 03-20-2012, 11:27 AM
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I got a good example,

today my lazy sister brings her 4 yr old dd (the dck's hate her) dcb is playing with a water gun and refuses to give it to her, because he's playing with it, so what does she do, decides to tackle him and pry it out of his hands. I step in and take the gun away from both. Dcb happily goes and plays with something else (oh he's 4 too) and what does bratty neice do, goes crying to her mother who then proceeds to pack up and leave without even saying good bye. If that doesn't scream stupid parenting then I have no idea what does.

my sister also lives in the "me" generation, she has a 17 yr old dd who lives with my parents and dumps her 4 yr old at my parents house all the time, because you know "I can't get anything done" I'm finding that most parents are spoiled brats who need a good kick in the butt! Luckily I have great families and their children are great also, I can bring my dck's anywhere and they are so well behaved. Unlike my sister who lets her 4 yr old dictate what she wants to do.
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