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  #1  
Old 03-21-2012, 09:10 PM
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Default Destructive 3 yr old and Ignorant DCM

Just need some ideas please. I have a 3 yr old DCB who is sometimes destructive. Sometimes by accident and others on purpose. I use time out as a way to get him away from the toy he broke. He has broken a few things around the home as well. Purposly ripped off a windsock outside. Purposley threw a ceramic bird off of the porch shattering it.... Just a couple examples over the past yr.

I was so proud of the new felt board I made yesterday. It is double sided hinged, (forms a triangle when open to play) inside the backs are fabric slotted compartments to keep all the felt pieces right with the board. I introduced it and the new felt pieces I made. It was a big hit!! Until clean up. DCB was pulling on it to get it away from another child. Before I could get his hands off of it he had grabbed the back pocket and yanked ripping the new fabric which was not cheap! (I had it tacked down under the seams by a staple gun and that allowed it to tear easier I guess) I scolded him and asked why he ripped that. He shrugged his shoulders like always. He had no problem sitting in time out didnt phase him as it was clean up time anyway.

DCM comes and I talked to her about it. I told her we had to come up with something to stop his destruction. She just looks at me. I told her the effort put into that board (made on real wood BTW not cardboard like my last) She just looked around at the kids playing. Then said "boooobbbyyy" in a whining i dont want to correct my kid tone like she ALWAYS says and thats ALL she ever says is a dragged out name like they know better RIGHT! I told Bobby to come out of the yard and talk to us. He was told 4 times by me and 3 times by her. He looked up the first 2 times then went on ignoring us swinging and then running around. I had another child in the house to potty (SA) so I couldnt leave in case they got into something otherwise I would have went down and retrieved him. I don't think it was too much to expect the DCM to make her child come discuss it so we could correct him together. She just laughed it off and said he's too busy playing.

I went on with my complaint... I told her time away from the toys isnt working so what does she suggest. She just went on to tell me "thats ok he did this... and that... at home" It's not ok, so how do we fix it? She says she doesnt know and says "come one sweetie lets go" Sweetie? After he just ignored us and broke a new project? She goes gets him from the yard and I tell her we should talk to bobby together before she leaves. She looked down at him and said "stop breaking stuff" he said "k" and they left.

He doesnt cause damage every day but I'm just tired of him thinking he can do what he wants and DCM thinking it's ok! She should have at least made him come out of the yard and talk with us!

I am so fed up with the no where talks with DCM no matter the issues she just drags out the name like they know better and says don't... again. It doesn't stop! Anyone have any ideas? I didn't buy the felt but I did buy the materials and take over an hour making all of it. I wanted to tell her she has to replace the material but she will say they don't have the money. I fight to get paid pennies a day!

I welcome any thoughts to change this situation. TIA!
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Old 03-22-2012, 03:00 AM
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Won't comment too much here, but he would be having a week of his own "private" play spot, on a small blanket folded about 3' x 4', with very limited toys, unbreakable ones, and that is where he would be while in care. And while he was outside, he would have a "private" play spot outside too. You can call it his "Thinking SPot". It doesn't matter if the board would have came from trash pickup, the issue is his destructive behavior and mom not wanting to address it.
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Old 03-22-2012, 04:50 AM
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I had a little guy like this once before. His parents didn't care, so I just implemented my own consequences. He went on a plan where he had to earn toy priveleges back. Before the program, he destroyed everything - books, the roof of my swingset, my son's heavy tonka truck in the sandbox.

He started out using just board books and stuffed animals. If he went a day without ruining anything, I gave him one more option to choose from. One infraction - even one - and we went back to square one and he started all over again.

He never earned back sandbox or swingset priveleges, and I did not feel bad about it in the least.

He was a tough child, and his family was just clueless. Sometimes you have to only concern yourself with your own environment. If his parents aren't on board, you really can't change that. You can change his behavior in your environment.
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Old 03-22-2012, 06:12 AM
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both suggestions are really good. Kids have to learn that they can't go thru life breaking things because they feel like it.
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Old 03-22-2012, 06:16 AM
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Originally Posted by mac60 View Post
Won't comment too much here, but he would be having a week of his own "private" play spot, on a small blanket folded about 3' x 4', with very limited toys, unbreakable ones, and that is where he would be while in care. And while he was outside, he would have a "private" play spot outside too. You can call it his "Thinking SPot". It doesn't matter if the board would have came from trash pickup, the issue is his destructive behavior and mom not wanting to address it.


I recently went through a period of my bigger kids being somewhat destructive. I discussed, addressed, and punished for it. Finally stopped the minute I started billing the parents for their child's destructive tendancies.

Like I said, these were my 3-4 yr olds. Old enough to know better!!
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Old 03-22-2012, 09:23 AM
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I would discuss this with mom at a point other than pickup. Too much going on for her to even process what you're talking about. I'd then make some rules and let her know that if the behavior didn't improve within a certain time frame he'd be kicked out. OR like Blackcat said you'll start charging for broken toys.

Time outs do very little to curb poor behavior. It works to remove and calm down but isn't a teaching tool. Also talking to him about his behavior more than 15 minutes after it happened is pointless. He has no idea what you're talking about! Somehow this behavior is rewarding for him and you need to find out why. It sounds to me like boredom. Is he challenged at your daycare? Do you involve him in the set up of activities and things like that. Maybe more responsibility will help him. Just throwing out ideas because it's hard to know without being in the situation myself.
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Old 03-22-2012, 09:35 AM
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Anything else that is damaged because of him and his destruction, send a bill home with the parent.

I have it specifically worded in my contract.

"
Deliberate destruction of toys and property is NOT allowed! While we do understand accidents happen, deliberate or intentional destruction is not permitted. Any toy or property broken due to deliberate misuse or willfull misconduct will be assessed to the parents. The fee will be at the discretion of the provider.
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Old 03-22-2012, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by mac60 View Post
Won't comment too much here, but he would be having a week of his own "private" play spot, on a small blanket folded about 3' x 4', with very limited toys, unbreakable ones, and that is where he would be while in care. And while he was outside, he would have a "private" play spot outside too. You can call it his "Thinking SPot". It doesn't matter if the board would have came from trash pickup, the issue is his destructive behavior and mom not wanting to address it.
I think having a 3 year old sit in a 3x4 spot for a week by himself with limited toys , both inside and out is pretty harsh. All day? For a week? Really? And you think think will stop him from breaking stuff? And you think the parents would approve? Sorry, but that sounds cruel. and ineffective. As a parent, I would flip a lid if I was told my child was forced to sit on a blanket by himself for a week. As a provider, such a notion would not even remotely cross my mind. Yikes. Scary.

Pitter, I think billing the parents like wdmmom says is much more effective. Taking privileges away too.
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Old 03-22-2012, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by PitterPatter View Post
Just need some ideas please. I have a 3 yr old DCB who is sometimes destructive. Sometimes by accident and others on purpose. I use time out as a way to get him away from the toy he broke. He has broken a few things around the home as well. Purposly ripped off a windsock outside. Purposley threw a ceramic bird off of the porch shattering it.... Just a couple examples over the past yr.

I was so proud of the new felt board I made yesterday. It is double sided hinged, (forms a triangle when open to play) inside the backs are fabric slotted compartments to keep all the felt pieces right with the board. I introduced it and the new felt pieces I made. It was a big hit!! Until clean up. DCB was pulling on it to get it away from another child. Before I could get his hands off of it he had grabbed the back pocket and yanked ripping the new fabric which was not cheap! (I had it tacked down under the seams by a staple gun and that allowed it to tear easier I guess) I scolded him and asked why he ripped that. He shrugged his shoulders like always. He had no problem sitting in time out didnt phase him as it was clean up time anyway.

DCM comes and I talked to her about it. I told her we had to come up with something to stop his destruction. She just looks at me. I told her the effort put into that board (made on real wood BTW not cardboard like my last) She just looked around at the kids playing. Then said "boooobbbyyy" in a whining i dont want to correct my kid tone like she ALWAYS says and thats ALL she ever says is a dragged out name like they know better RIGHT! I told Bobby to come out of the yard and talk to us. He was told 4 times by me and 3 times by her. He looked up the first 2 times then went on ignoring us swinging and then running around. I had another child in the house to potty (SA) so I couldnt leave in case they got into something otherwise I would have went down and retrieved him. I don't think it was too much to expect the DCM to make her child come discuss it so we could correct him together. She just laughed it off and said he's too busy playing.

I went on with my complaint... I told her time away from the toys isnt working so what does she suggest. She just went on to tell me "thats ok he did this... and that... at home" It's not ok, so how do we fix it? She says she doesnt know and says "come one sweetie lets go" Sweetie? After he just ignored us and broke a new project? She goes gets him from the yard and I tell her we should talk to bobby together before she leaves. She looked down at him and said "stop breaking stuff" he said "k" and they left.

He doesnt cause damage every day but I'm just tired of him thinking he can do what he wants and DCM thinking it's ok! She should have at least made him come out of the yard and talk with us!

I am so fed up with the no where talks with DCM no matter the issues she just drags out the name like they know better and says don't... again. It doesn't stop! Anyone have any ideas? I didn't buy the felt but I did buy the materials and take over an hour making all of it. I wanted to tell her she has to replace the material but she will say they don't have the money. I fight to get paid pennies a day!

I welcome any thoughts to change this situation. TIA!
Yesterday I had a 3 year old continually slam one of my doors. Each time, I did a time out and then made them close the door properly over and over. (Got that idea from the thread about the old school style and making the kids go back and walk insead of run in the house).

Not a single door was slammed today! Not sure if it will last but the re-do over and over the proper way has been effective thus far. Maybe that will help?
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Old 03-22-2012, 12:01 PM
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I would discuss this with mom at a point other than pickup. Too much going on for her to even process what you're talking about. I'd then make some rules and let her know that if the behavior didn't improve within a certain time frame he'd be kicked out. OR like Blackcat said you'll start charging for broken toys.

Time outs do very little to curb poor behavior. It works to remove and calm down but isn't a teaching tool. Also talking to him about his behavior more than 15 minutes after it happened is pointless. He has no idea what you're talking about! Somehow this behavior is rewarding for him and you need to find out why. It sounds to me like boredom. Is he challenged at your daycare? Do you involve him in the set up of activities and things like that. Maybe more responsibility will help him. Just throwing out ideas because it's hard to know without being in the situation myself.
He is challenged, I keep the kids very busy, boredom is not the prob. This usually comes from nowhere. I keep my eye on him extra because Iknow what he can and will do. The items on my porch is when he was leaving just reached up and ripped the windsock off. The bird they arrived early and just started throwing stuff off the railing. The toys usually when he can't have it he gets mad and yanks, grabs, shoves, throws toys. He also has broken just to break. I told him something didint bend that way and he forced it anyway. I first started with the nicey nice no no we dont break things. Then I would just take the toy out of play.... now I have been sitting him down. I will tell DCM she will have to start paying. I do have it in my contract but never enforce it. They are always pleading poverty so I know I wont get it.

Thanks for the thoughts and help!!
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Old 03-22-2012, 12:16 PM
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Won't comment too much here, but he would be having a week of his own "private" play spot, on a small blanket folded about 3' x 4', with very limited toys, unbreakable ones, and that is where he would be while in care. And while he was outside, he would have a "private" play spot outside too. You can call it his "Thinking SPot". It doesn't matter if the board would have came from trash pickup, the issue is his destructive behavior and mom not wanting to address it.
Melskids,

When a child isn't responsible enough to handle "big kid" toys at our daycare, we go back to baby toys for them for a week. I've never had a child go back to baby toys more than once so it definitely works for us!

Rattles, soft rings and fabric blocks just aren't as much fun as Little People, dress up and wood blocks.
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Old 03-22-2012, 12:22 PM
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I think having a 3 year old sit in a 3x4 spot for a week by himself with limited toys , both inside and out is pretty harsh. All day? For a week? Really? And you think think will stop him from breaking stuff? And you think the parents would approve? Sorry, but that sounds cruel. and ineffective. As a parent, I would flip a lid if I was told my child was forced to sit on a blanket by himself for a week. As a provider, such a notion would not even remotely cross my mind. Yikes. Scary.

Pitter, I think billing the parents like wdmmom says is much more effective. Taking privileges away too.
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Old 03-22-2012, 12:22 PM
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I think having a 3 year old sit in a 3x4 spot for a week by himself with limited toys , both inside and out is pretty harsh. All day? For a week? Really? And you think think will stop him from breaking stuff? And you think the parents would approve? Sorry, but that sounds cruel. and ineffective. As a parent, I would flip a lid if I was told my child was forced to sit on a blanket by himself for a week. As a provider, such a notion would not even remotely cross my mind. Yikes. Scary.

Pitter, I think billing the parents like wdmmom says is much more effective. Taking privileges away too.

Agree!

That kind of "punishment" would have a child care providers license taken away in my area.
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Old 03-23-2012, 02:59 AM
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It makes no sense. You have a child 9/10 hours a day. The child is destructive and breaks things, you bill the parent. The parent does not have control over the kid while in your care, but you "blame" the parent on the behavior and bill them. The kid knows that nothing will be done while in your care. Billing the parent for the broken toy does nothing to curb the destructive behavior of a child while in your care. It goes back to whatever reason not disciplining a child for poor behavior.

I'll rephrase this, since you all took it to the extreme and now have this kid sitting on a blanket square for 9/10 hours a day.............Whenever there would be opportunity for free play, this child would be sitting on a small blanket with unbreakable toys. Still part of the group, but limited in play items. Wait, that is what is called discipline, and golly gees we can't do that now can we.
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Old 03-23-2012, 06:07 AM
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It makes no sense. You have a child 9/10 hours a day. The child is destructive and breaks things, you bill the parent. The parent does not have control over the kid while in your care, but you "blame" the parent on the behavior and bill them. The kid knows that nothing will be done while in your care. Billing the parent for the broken toy does nothing to curb the destructive behavior of a child while in your care. It goes back to whatever reason not disciplining a child for poor behavior.

I'll rephrase this, since you all took it to the extreme and now have this kid sitting on a blanket square for 9/10 hours a day.............Whenever there would be opportunity for free play, this child would be sitting on a small blanket with unbreakable toys. Still part of the group, but limited in play items. Wait, that is what is called discipline, and golly gees we can't do that now can we.
I agree with you mac. What is the reasoning for billing the parents, what will this accomplish. NOTHING. Well if the people think the child is sitting on a mat for 10 hours a day then those providers are doing nothing with the children, because this thought should never have crossed anyones mind.
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Old 03-23-2012, 06:18 AM
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I'll rephrase this, since you all took it to the extreme and now have this kid sitting on a blanket square for 9/10 hours a day.............Whenever there would be opportunity for free play, this child would be sitting on a small blanket with unbreakable toys. Still part of the group, but limited in play items. Wait, that is what is called discipline, and golly gees we can't do that now can we.
How did anyone "take it to the extreme" ?

YOU said, "but he would be having a week of his own "private" play spot, on a small blanket folded about 3' x 4', with very limited toys, unbreakable ones, and that is where he would be while in care. And while he was outside, he would have a "private" play spot outside too"

Sounds to me like that would be all day, every day for a week. So, if you didn't mean all day, you should have clarified that and nobody would have "taken it to the extreme"

Of course, once again, you will say you are being bullied here, but for the record, it is how you state things that gets people to be in disagreement with you.
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Old 03-23-2012, 06:19 AM
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I agree with you mac. What is the reasoning for billing the parents, what will this accomplish. NOTHING. Well if the people think the child is sitting on a mat for 10 hours a day then those providers are doing nothing with the children, because this thought should never have crossed anyones mind.
I agree that billing the parents is useless. The provider needs to deal with the behavior and move on, otherwise the provider appears to be unable to do her job (to the parents - not me)

FYI - mac is the one that said put the kid on a blanket with liited toys, so your final remark there should really be directed at her, not the others on this thread.
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Old 03-23-2012, 06:33 AM
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crystal, I want to point out that what mac said is nothing out of the ordinary on this board. She said she would use a blanket, but there are so many on this board who would use a play pen instead or a highchair so centering her out is kinda mean. I read posts over and over again how kids are even seperated by baby gates for their behavior so thats the same thing too. Also, I think for saftey reasons I would also put him on a blanket to play, because even thou what he is doing may be small stuff, whats not to say that he is escalating to something bigger, like pushing a child down, or trying to rip clothes off a child (my neice did this on tues and I made her go home) I would think the op would like to nip it in the butt before it got out of control and someone got hurt.
what would you do then to help this provider.
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Old 03-23-2012, 06:36 AM
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My oldest ds is ADD what worked for him was making it better.

He often did things with out thinking ( still does as an adult. ) But we stopped and thought how to make it better. if he broke a toy on purpose he would be expected to choose one of his to relace it... Which is why we have a badmitton set with 3 rackets.


use his allowence to help cover the cost.

We also worked on control before it happened... step back. take a deep breath.

step back and count... or jump.... it did help eventually but then so did the diagnoses at 10 the confirmed our suspisions...
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Old 03-23-2012, 07:17 AM
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crystal, I want to point out that what mac said is nothing out of the ordinary on this board. She said she would use a blanket, but there are so many on this board who would use a play pen instead or a highchair so centering her out is kinda mean. I read posts over and over again how kids are even seperated by baby gates for their behavior so thats the same thing too. Also, I think for saftey reasons I would also put him on a blanket to play, because even thou what he is doing may be small stuff, whats not to say that he is escalating to something bigger, like pushing a child down, or trying to rip clothes off a child (my neice did this on tues and I made her go home) I would think the op would like to nip it in the butt before it got out of control and someone got hurt.
what would you do then to help this provider.
hey, I hear ya. I don't agree with any of that either, and typically, if I see someone advising it, I "argue" it. Just as I disagree with putting a kid on a blanket for extended periods I am HIGHLY against playpens, gates, etc.

Children learn absolutely NOTHING from being secluded/excluded/confined. They learn from being a part of the group, and from a consistent and knowledgeable adult guiding them to proper behavior.
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Old 03-23-2012, 07:43 AM
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Oh yea, and on the days the kid is on the "blanket restrictions", he is not getting fed, no potty time, no preschool, just 9/10 hours of "doing time". REALLY? Somethings should just be common sense. Nothing new, always expected.
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Old 03-23-2012, 07:58 AM
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I don't consider feeding, potty etc. to be time for play, so I would still consider it as "doing time" on the blanket. Even prisoners get to eat and go potty.


Ya know, instead of getting defensive every time someone comments on your posts, why don't you consider the way you say things and be more thoughtful when you respond to people? I myself have struggled with it and have attempted to change the way I say things so that people hear what I mean instead of what THEY read it to mean because I said it "wrong"

If you post more clearly EXACTLY what you mean, it wouldn't be misconstrued. Although, I do believe that most of your first responses ARE what you mean and then you feel the need to back track and defend yourself, even when you are wrong.
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Old 03-23-2012, 08:49 AM
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Think whatever you want, quite frankly I don't care what you think about me. Excuse me Crystal, Be more thoughtful how I respond to people. I don't belittle people, I don't criticize people, I simply made a statement. I don't backtrack, but when people put their "theories" into what is posted, yes, I will defend myself. You don't agree with it, so what. Your way is not the only way. Just don't go putting words into my post and making them out to be more than they are. I take it upon myself to assume that people here have some common sense when they read the post, I guess I assumed that people would "understand" that putting a child in a spot to play for the time they were in care because they were destructive, that people would "understand" it would be during free play, or times when the child would have opportunity to do their own thing and get into trouble. If you want to assume I meant for 9/10 hours a day, then that is your problem, not mine.

And for me being wrong.....I am sure you would be the first one to tell me, as you seem to know everything about everybody and everything here. And for some sick reason, you seem to enjoy your time belittling me. Why? Not sure.
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Old 03-23-2012, 09:04 AM
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Sorry there was such a dispute over this I just wanted some help since nothing I have been doing is working. Stubborn streak maybe. DCB tried to break a golf club by beating it against the fence today. I asked why he was doing it in hopes I could try to understand. he said "cuz" I asked again and sat him on my leg "why are you hitting the fence like that?" He said HULK SMASH! And hit it again. Purposly trying to smash but obviously he had watched the movie and maybe just acting out parts. I took him aside again and took the club. I told him we use clubs to putt the ball into the cup. He said NO HULK SMASH! I told him he was not to play with the golf club anymore today because he has to be nice and use it right. He got mad ran and picked up the sand shovel and threw it. I told him again we don't do that. He then ran and got another club and threw it. I had to make him sit. I dont know any other way and I'm not going to keep chasing after him as he throws toy after toy. Nothing as broke, just 1 of those days he's mad because I took something away so his 1st thought was to breaks something else.

I dont make parents replace everything that gets broke. Matter of fact it's rare but some things like my personal items (not toys) I am going to make DCM pay for especially when she stands there watching him reach for the flag blowing trying to pull on it and says "he should work in demolition when he grows up"

Again thanks for the help and support sorry this thread caused an issue. Have a great day everyone!
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Old 03-23-2012, 09:19 AM
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Ok, I am going to jump in here and say that I had this same problem last week. It had actually been going on for a while and I was tired of redirecting this same kid (new 4 yr old) and I am sure his parents were getting tired of paying for stuff too so I decided to separate him.

I don;t know if separation is the right word, but I basically did what I think Mac is trying to say. I gave him his own place to paly that was separated from the other kids. It was a small space in the corner of the room where he was still in sight of the others. Part of my point in doing that was I wanted him to SEE everyone else playing appropriately with things which is how he should have been playing and normally did.

His mom and I tried all sorts of things and none of them worked. He was apparently going through some sort of phase and basically was a great kid but had developed some destructive tendancies. (I kind of believe he liked the attention he was getting for doing these things...but I don't know...) So anyways, after he pretty much had to give me some of his toys from home, his mom had to replace/pay for some things and he was learning nothing from time outs....I decided to put him in the corner.

He stayed in the space, thinking spot or whatever you want to call it all day (*-4:30) and was not allowed to play with anything except the few toys I did give him (non-destructive things). He FULLY participated in lunch, group activites and outside time but none of the "free-play" choices that he was used to.

This went on for two days. Yes, two WHOLE days. At the end of the second day, he came ot me and apologized for breaking my things and said he wanted to play with the other kids and toys and he promised he would be nice to the toys and books. He hugged me and I agreed that we would start over the next day.

He has been out of his "thinking spot" now for 3 full weeks and has NOT once broke a single toy. As a matter of fact, he reminds others to be gentle now.

So I don't know if this is what Mac was talking about or not but I did this and it worked. I had tried all the other redirecting, shadowing and time outs and a few other things but nothing worked. It almost seemed like the more I tried, the more he broke! Finally, I had enough and basically put him "on a blanket without anything breakable" and he did learn. He is back to being the great little guy he always was.

Basically, I think that any type of "fix" we are going to use needs to be discussed with parents, and we need to work together to find a solution. I don't normally use that type of behavioral modification but in this case, I saw some awesoem results. DIfferent kids need different things and some of the things we are now taught in the ECE field are kind of rediculous IMHO. I am all for child-led things and stuff but he77 if I will allow a child to be destructive without some sort of consequence, punishment, redirections, guidance...call it what you want.

We figured it out and we are all happy now.
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Old 03-23-2012, 09:31 AM
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Thank you. Yes, I feel that I said the very thing you just did, only in less words. I think I said Private Play spot and Private Thinking spot.....not sure how all the other assumptions came in to play.
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Old 03-23-2012, 09:39 AM
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Thank you. Yes, I feel that I said the very thing you just did, only in less words. I think I said Private Play spot and Private Thinking spot.....not sure how all the other assumptions came in to play.
Your post is pretty clear that it would be a week.
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Old 03-23-2012, 09:42 AM
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Won't comment too much here, but he would be having a week of his own "private" play spot, on a small blanket folded about 3' x 4', with very limited toys, unbreakable ones, and that is where he would be while in care. And while he was outside, he would have a "private" play spot outside too. You can call it his "Thinking SPot". It doesn't matter if the board would have came from trash pickup, the issue is his destructive behavior and mom not wanting to address it.
1) A week.

2) That's we're the child would be while in care.

Your words.

If I knew, irl, that a provider was doing that I would call licensing on them.
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Old 03-23-2012, 10:40 AM
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Think whatever you want, quite frankly I don't care what you think about me. Excuse me Crystal, Be more thoughtful how I respond to people. I don't belittle people, I don't criticize people, I simply made a statement. I don't backtrack, but when people put their "theories" into what is posted, yes, I will defend myself. You don't agree with it, so what. Your way is not the only way. Just don't go putting words into my post and making them out to be more than they are. I take it upon myself to assume that people here have some common sense when they read the post, I guess I assumed that people would "understand" that putting a child in a spot to play for the time they were in care because they were destructive, that people would "understand" it would be during free play, or times when the child would have opportunity to do their own thing and get into trouble. If you want to assume I meant for 9/10 hours a day, then that is your problem, not mine.

And for me being wrong.....I am sure you would be the first one to tell me, as you seem to know everything about everybody and everything here. And for some sick reason, you seem to enjoy your time belittling me. Why? Not sure.
How am I belittling you? I tried to give you some helpful advice so that you are not misunderstood. If you do not want us to take your posts the wrong way, then be more clear. You expect us to decipher your posts so that we understand what you mean???? Wouldn't it be easier to say what you mean and mean what you say so that we don't "belittle" you??????

In my post I said " I myself have struggled with it and have attempted to change the way I say things so that people hear what I mean instead of what THEY read it to mean because I said it "wrong"

I didn't say YOU, I said I because there were alot of time I was misunderstood and got defensive instead of choosing to be more clear in my verbiage. It's alot easier to be clear the first time than it is to come back and argue my point.
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Old 03-23-2012, 10:40 AM
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1) A week.

2) That's we're the child would be while in care.

Your words.

If I knew, irl, that a provider was doing that I would call licensing on them.
Yeah, that.
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Old 03-23-2012, 10:59 AM
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Billing the parent: this will definitely encourage the parents to teach their child NOT to destroy costly items. Pitter, correct me if I am wrong, but your post indicated not only is the childs destruction a problem, but the mom not caring or doing anything about it was a big problem too. If mom got a bill, she will likely reinforce the "no breaking things on purpose" rule at home too. If the child learns at home that destruction is unacceptable, her will learn that it is unacceptable everywhere. Billing the parent is a consequence for the parent, not the child. If a child smashes something in a store, the store is going to make mom pay. Period. Your home, Pitter, is no different than the store. Kid breaks it, mom buys it. Mom WILL start to care and WILL WORK with her child to stop the behavior that its costing her so much money.

Disciplining the child at daycare: No, little Jimmy does not care if mom gets a bill. True. But Little Jimmy does care about having fun. Yes, the child should have consequences, like "sorry no art project today, you broke that toy on propose." I can see separating the child from the group for a short time to observe the other kids playing nice. Is rewarding good behavior such a controversy? I think not. Little Jimmy needs to be praised when he is playing nice.

GreenPlastic: I agree with you, even if Mac says "during free play time only", it translates to all day. If.they are not eating, going potty, napping or other routine care functions, they are playing. She doesn't think this child should be allowed to play, for a week, and that is easy too harsh.

Mac: do you think on the third or forth day of your "thinking spot" treatment, this child will even remember what it is they are being punished for? No, all they will know is that they are not allowed to play and that they are miserable. Would you honestly tell the parent of this child that they will be segregated from all children for a week? "your child will be fed and pottied and be supervised, but sorry, he will not be allowed to play with other children and have very limited access to toys and be told to sit on a blanket during free play times. All this because he broke a toy." You think this will fly? Honestly, you would really segregate and restrict play items for a week for a 3d year old child? If youhonestly feel this is appropriate, you need to a class on age appropriate basic guidance and discipline. Separating a child from a group for several minutes after an incident occurs is appropriate. A week is highly inappropriate. Call licensing and ask them if you dont believe me.
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Old 03-23-2012, 05:17 PM
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Billing the parent: this will definitely encourage the parents to teach their child NOT to destroy costly items. Pitter, correct me if I am wrong, but your post indicated not only is the childs destruction a problem, but the mom not caring or doing anything about it was a big problem too. If mom got a bill, she will likely reinforce the "no breaking things on purpose" rule at home too. If the child learns at home that destruction is unacceptable, her will learn that it is unacceptable everywhere. Billing the parent is a consequence for the parent, not the child. If a child smashes something in a store, the store is going to make mom pay. Period. Your home, Pitter, is no different than the store. Kid breaks it, mom buys it. Mom WILL start to care and WILL WORK with her child to stop the behavior that its costing her so much money.

Disciplining the child at daycare: No, little Jimmy does not care if mom gets a bill. True. But Little Jimmy does care about having fun. Yes, the child should have consequences, like "sorry no art project today, you broke that toy on propose." I can see separating the child from the group for a short time to observe the other kids playing nice. Is rewarding good behavior such a controversy? I think not. Little Jimmy needs to be praised when he is playing nice.

GreenPlastic: I agree with you, even if Mac says "during free play time only", it translates to all day. If.they are not eating, going potty, napping or other routine care functions, they are playing. She doesn't think this child should be allowed to play, for a week, and that is easy too harsh.
Yes the part that has me even more frustrated is DCM always blowing it off. No matter the issue really. It's always the same no matter the problem "BOOOOBBBYYYYY" (calm low toned and dragged out like you know better) that's it. I spoke with DCM again at pick up and told her we should make time to discuss the breaking of toys and what we can do as a team to make sure he understand that he has to play nice. She just said " I already know he's destructive he's only 3. There's nothing that can be done he's just a little boy" THAT ignorance is what makes me want to fine her arse for it all!

I have 2 battles on my hands. The battle with DCB and the battle with DCM because she won't help me enforce the rules with DCB. He wont stop at my home is he it is just giggled at and blown off at home. I almost hope the little sweetheart breaks something important to her!
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Old 03-26-2012, 06:26 AM
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Yes the part that has me even more frustrated is DCM always blowing it off. No matter the issue really. It's always the same no matter the problem "BOOOOBBBYYYYY" (calm low toned and dragged out like you know better) that's it. I spoke with DCM again at pick up and told her we should make time to discuss the breaking of toys and what we can do as a team to make sure he understand that he has to play nice. She just said " I already know he's destructive he's only 3. There's nothing that can be done he's just a little boy" THAT ignorance is what makes me want to fine her arse for it all!

I have 2 battles on my hands. The battle with DCB and the battle with DCM because she won't help me enforce the rules with DCB. He wont stop at my home is he it is just giggled at and blown off at home. I almost hope the little sweetheart breaks something important to her!
Did you inform her she will now be charged for items he breaks? And also, as soon as he threw the first thing, (shovel I think it was) instant time out. When it comes to throwing things or violence, there is no second chance. Any situation where another child can be injured is instant punishment. (Even if there was no other child near the item being thrown this time, next time we may not be so lucky)
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Old 03-26-2012, 11:09 AM
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I don't consider feeding, potty etc. to be time for play, so I would still consider it as "doing time" on the blanket. Even prisoners get to eat and go potty.


Ya know, instead of getting defensive every time someone comments on your posts, why don't you consider the way you say things and be more thoughtful when you respond to people? I myself have struggled with it and have attempted to change the way I say things so that people hear what I mean instead of what THEY read it to mean because I said it "wrong"

If you post more clearly EXACTLY what you mean, it wouldn't be misconstrued. Although, I do believe that most of your first responses ARE what you mean and then you feel the need to back track and defend yourself, even when you are wrong.
sometimes I agree with you Crystal and sometimes I don't. but......you do come across as jumping on people a lot. Sorry- maybe you could play a little nicer too but.... I see that you are trying sorry I guess I just felt for Mac60 who I understood what she was trying to do with the blanket. Common sense told me she is a caring provider suggesting a solution to what works for her and not abusing it to the extreme. She is trying to teach the child that if you break my toys, these are the toys that you are going to be allowed to play with. Not a life threatening consequence.
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Old 03-26-2012, 11:33 AM
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"If you do not want us to take your posts the wrong way, then be more clear."

Crystal- How would you handle this situation? Exactly what would you do and how, be detailed- I get that you would handle it as a group, how so.....you were not clear to me in how you would handle it as a group.

I am always looking for ways to better myself- so please don't let this come across as a wave maker- I stand firm on what I said in previous post as I do not feel that Mac60 was outrageous in what she suggested. Sometimes it takes several different methods before we find one that works, and each child is different, what works for one often doesn't work for all.
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Old 03-26-2012, 12:39 PM
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Children learn absolutely NOTHING from being secluded/excluded/confined. They learn from being a part of the group, and from a consistent and knowledgeable adult guiding them to proper behavior.
I disagree completely but assuming you are correct:

1) It's okay that they don't learn anything from it.

2) Knowing Pitter's funding for the kids she cares for there simply isn't enough money to provide a consistent and knowledgeable adult to guide one child into proper behavior. She makes a couple of dollars an hour. That kind of guidance requires an adult specifically FOR the child to protect the property and the other kids. An adult for this child would be much more than the parents could afford or Pitter could afford.

Seclusion and confinement work very well and is an affordable alternative to having an adult one to one a kid whether that child be a biter, hitter, toy basher, or whatever other untoward behavior the child is displaying.

What's lacking now is the ability to put a child who repeatedly offends NOT in a confined area but TO BED. This kid needs to GO TO BED and stay in bed for a good while. When he gets a good lot of that THEN he needs to go into a confined area to play and slooooowly bit by bit be reintroduced into the free play he so bodly abused.

It's unfortunate that "go to bed" has been removed as an alternative discipline for child care providers. It worked FABULOUSLY in previous generations (second only to a spanking) but Lord forbid we do anything but "guide" the child at two bucks an hour.

These kids aren't getting better behaved as time goes on. As we strip away every meaningful discipline from providers you are going to see reactions like Mac60's. What she is REALLY saying is that she's given NOTHING that really works that isn't so costly and time consuming that the fees for the child do not come CLOSE to managing it.

Mac60: I understood what you were saying and I don't believe you meant for a week on a blanket all day long. I think what you were saying is that the consequence can't be metered out over three minutes and have it work... that the kid needs to be excluded from what he is abusing... and it needs to be over a few days so each time he is excuded from that activitiy he sees that the gig he had before was a heckofalot better than the gig on the blanket.
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Old 03-26-2012, 12:44 PM
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I would start with having him as my shadow for the day.....everywhere I am, he is. (FYI, I am typically in the play area with the children facilitating their play, I would just be certain that this one was within arm's reach at all times) The second he attempts to throw a toy, I'm there to stop it.

I would also have him help repair whatever he has broken....even if it is going to end up in the trash anyway. I'd make him use critical thinking skills....guiding him with open-ended questions....to figure out what he could use/do to fix it. Then I'd put him to work on it. When he discovers that it cannot be fixed....even after all of his hard work and use of SOME of his play time..... he might decide he doesn't want to do that again.
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Old 03-26-2012, 01:45 PM
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I would start with having him as my shadow for the day.....everywhere I am, he is. (FYI, I am typically in the play area with the children facilitating their play, I would just be certain that this one was within arm's reach at all times) The second he attempts to throw a toy, I'm there to stop it.

I would also have him help repair whatever he has broken....even if it is going to end up in the trash anyway. I'd make him use critical thinking skills....guiding him with open-ended questions....to figure out what he could use/do to fix it. Then I'd put him to work on it. When he discovers that it cannot be fixed....even after all of his hard work and use of SOME of his play time..... he might decide he doesn't want to do that again.
I get what you are trying to say, but I have a few thoughts as to why this wouldnt work in my group.

1. So what do you do when you have more than one doing this? I can't keep 7 shadows all within arms reach of me all day.

2. They are not learning how to play appropriately themselves. They learn to rely on having someone regulate their play instead of learning how to do it themselves.

3. I have a few kids that are super needy for attention. The only thing they get from the shadowing is that if they act up they get my attention.


Exclusion, is the only real way I have learned that works for destructive behavior. Plus it is a real life lesson. If you destroy work property you get fired. If you destroy school property you get expelled.

Here you have to be invited to play with us and to be invited you have to play nicely and be respectful. Otherwise you can't join us. So far it has worked for me.
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Old 03-26-2012, 02:15 PM
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I would start with having him as my shadow for the day.....everywhere I am, he is. (FYI, I am typically in the play area with the children facilitating their play, I would just be certain that this one was within arm's reach at all times) The second he attempts to throw a toy, I'm there to stop it.

I would also have him help repair whatever he has broken....even if it is going to end up in the trash anyway. I'd make him use critical thinking skills....guiding him with open-ended questions....to figure out what he could use/do to fix it. Then I'd put him to work on it. When he discovers that it cannot be fixed....even after all of his hard work and use of SOME of his play time..... he might decide he doesn't want to do that again.
My kids would LOVE having this adult response. It wouldn't stop them from destroying things but it would be super fun.

Having an adult spotting the child wouldn't be a reward but it wouldn't be a consequence either.

Having an adult help repair whatever they have broken would be something different than what they do day to day so that would be fun and exciting. "Working" on it would be really fun.

Knowing that something couldn't be fixed would not be a problem for most kids. They live for the moment so loosing one toy out of the hundreds they have access to daily would litterally mean nothing. We remove toys that don't work for the group and not a single kid has an issue with it. It's either available or it's not. If it's not... there is something else to go to.

This sounds good in theory and it sounds super dooper for the kid. I don't see how it would lead to less destruction though.
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Old 03-26-2012, 06:51 PM
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I get what you are trying to say, but I have a few thoughts as to why this wouldnt work in my group.

1. So what do you do when you have more than one doing this? I can't keep 7 shadows all within arms reach of me all day. Honestly, I don't EVER have more than one doing this, and generally I don't have one doing it. I raise the children from infancy and they know what is expected of them, and typically are very well-behaved.

2. They are not learning how to play appropriately themselves. They learn to rely on having someone regulate their play instead of learning how to do it themselves.Yes, actually they are. They are still part of the group and participate in everything the group is doing. They just don't have the opportunity to throw things because I am near their side to stop it. Children certainly do not learn how to regulate their play/behavior if they are limited to sitting on a blanket by themselves for hours at a time, days on end, without peer interaction.

3. I have a few kids that are super needy for attention. The only thing they get from the shadowing is that if they act up they get my attention. You betcha....they get my attention. ATTENTION is what a child who does not know how to behave needs. They don't want this kind of attention though, I don't make it fun and exciting. They'd rather I was off doing something else while they play.


Exclusion, is the only real way I have learned that works for destructive behavior. Plus it is a real life lesson. If you destroy work property you get fired. If you destroy school property you get expelled. Sure....but those children are MUCH older....not preschoolers that are still learning right from wrong and cause and effect.

Here you have to be invited to play with us and to be invited you have to play nicely and be respectful. Otherwise you can't join us. So far it has worked for me. Here you have to play nicely and respectfully too. However, I would never exclude a young child simply because they broke a toy, or what-have-you. And, for 15 years, it has worked for me
I answered in bold.
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Old 03-26-2012, 06:54 PM
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I disagree completely but assuming you are correct:

1) It's okay that they don't learn anything from it.

2) Knowing Pitter's funding for the kids she cares for there simply isn't enough money to provide a consistent and knowledgeable adult to guide one child into proper behavior. She makes a couple of dollars an hour. That kind of guidance requires an adult specifically FOR the child to protect the property and the other kids. An adult for this child would be much more than the parents could afford or Pitter could afford.

Seclusion and confinement work very well and is an affordable alternative to having an adult one to one a kid whether that child be a biter, hitter, toy basher, or whatever other untoward behavior the child is displaying.

What's lacking now is the ability to put a child who repeatedly offends NOT in a confined area but TO BED. This kid needs to GO TO BED and stay in bed for a good while. When he gets a good lot of that THEN he needs to go into a confined area to play and slooooowly bit by bit be reintroduced into the free play he so bodly abused.

It's unfortunate that "go to bed" has been removed as an alternative discipline for child care providers. It worked FABULOUSLY in previous generations (second only to a spanking) but Lord forbid we do anything but "guide" the child at two bucks an hour.

These kids aren't getting better behaved as time goes on. As we strip away every meaningful discipline from providers you are going to see reactions like Mac60's. What she is REALLY saying is that she's given NOTHING that really works that isn't so costly and time consuming that the fees for the child do not come CLOSE to managing it.

Mac60: I understood what you were saying and I don't believe you meant for a week on a blanket all day long. I think what you were saying is that the consequence can't be metered out over three minutes and have it work... that the kid needs to be excluded from what he is abusing... and it needs to be over a few days so each time he is excuded from that activitiy he sees that the gig he had before was a heckofalot better than the gig on the blanket.
Well, I don't know how much money pitter makes and to me that is irrelevant. Unlike you, I don't attach $ signs to every action I take with children. I do as much work as possible in my day....regardless of how much I am paid.....and let's face it, to be making two bucks an hour, you'd probably only be caring for one child. The reality of it is we make MUCH more than that when you total ALL of the children we care for. But, again, that is irrelevant to me. I do what I have to do, regardless of my hourly wage.
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Old 03-26-2012, 07:03 PM
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My kids would LOVE having this adult response. It wouldn't stop them from destroying things but it would be super fun. Nah, my kids don't love it when they are my shadow. They'd much rather be playing without me hovering. They get LOTS of independent play here, so having me next to them all day bugs the heck out of them.

Having an adult spotting the child wouldn't be a reward but it wouldn't be a consequence either. see above

Having an adult help repair whatever they have broken would be something different than what they do day to day so that would be fun and exciting. "Working" on it would be really fun. I suppose it could be considered fun....but the point of it is to see that they CANNOT fix what they broke.....they KNOW I am disappointed..... THAT makes them SAD....they don't like feeling that way

Knowing that something couldn't be fixed would not be a problem for most kids. They live for the moment so loosing one toy out of the hundreds they have access to daily would litterally mean nothing. We remove toys that don't work for the group and not a single kid has an issue with it. It's either available or it's not. If it's not... there is something else to go to. Yeah....I remove things that aren't working for my group too. I am a HUGE believer that the environment plays a significant role in children's behavior. If my kids are having issues, the FIRST thing I look at is the environment to consider if changes need to be made. And, just like for you, not a single kid has an issue with it.

This sounds good in theory and it sounds super dooper for the kid. I don't see how it would lead to less destruction though.Maybe it doesn't. Maybe it does. I cannot GUARANTEE that it works. As I said in a previous post, my kids are with me from infancy (typically) and they know my expectations. I don't typically have these types of issues. But, when I do, I know how to handle it in a way that works for MY kids.
I have worked this way successfully with children for 15 years and do not have behavior issues like many providers here express. SOOOO.....I MUST be doing something right
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Old 03-27-2012, 04:16 PM
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I disagree completely but assuming you are correct:

1) It's okay that they don't learn anything from it.

2) Knowing Pitter's funding for the kids she cares for there simply isn't enough money to provide a consistent and knowledgeable adult to guide one child into proper behavior. She makes a couple of dollars an hour. That kind of guidance requires an adult specifically FOR the child to protect the property and the other kids. An adult for this child would be much more than the parents could afford or Pitter could afford.

Seclusion and confinement work very well and is an affordable alternative to having an adult one to one a kid whether that child be a biter, hitter, toy basher, or whatever other untoward behavior the child is displaying.

What's lacking now is the ability to put a child who repeatedly offends NOT in a confined area but TO BED. This kid needs to GO TO BED and stay in bed for a good while. When he gets a good lot of that THEN he needs to go into a confined area to play and slooooowly bit by bit be reintroduced into the free play he so bodly abused.

It's unfortunate that "go to bed" has been removed as an alternative discipline for child care providers. It worked FABULOUSLY in previous generations (second only to a spanking) but Lord forbid we do anything but "guide" the child at two bucks an hour.

These kids aren't getting better behaved as time goes on. As we strip away every meaningful discipline from providers you are going to see reactions like Mac60's. What she is REALLY saying is that she's given NOTHING that really works that isn't so costly and time consuming that the fees for the child do not come CLOSE to managing it.

Mac60: I understood what you were saying and I don't believe you meant for a week on a blanket all day long. I think what you were saying is that the consequence can't be metered out over three minutes and have it work... that the kid needs to be excluded from what he is abusing... and it needs to be over a few days so each time he is excuded from that activitiy he sees that the gig he had before was a heckofalot better than the gig on the blanket.
So, Nan...I find it interesting that this is what you state here, but your policies, that are posted on your website seem completely opposite.

This is what you say in your policies:

. When children have escalating behavior we use “proximity control” or physically close supervision until the child exhibits the behaviors we seek for normal group activity. ( I would consider this shadowing)

We rely on the other children to show children with unwanted behavior what behavior we expect and promote. If a child persists with unacceptable behavior we “team” them up with the child in the day care who is able to show them the proper way to conduct themselves. When children with behavior issues are surrounded by balanced and stable children they will adjust quickly to the conduct of the rest of the group. We encourage the older children to model kind and co-operative behavior and to mentor the younger children who need help. Works like a charm. (I would consider this NOT being excluded or "confined" but remaining with the group to learn appropriate group behavior)

So, I am curious as to which philosophy you actually apply with your children?
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Old 03-27-2012, 04:51 PM
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If I had a child breaking my personal stuff or the daycare toys and equipment on a regular basis you can bet your bottom dollar that he would be kept away from all such things until he learned to respect the property around him. Would I seclude him to a blanket off in the corner? Hmmm... possibly. Or he would go in a gated area with non breakable objects. Same thing right?

Honestly I don't tolerate destructive behaviour though (as there is no real reason for a child to act out this way and think it's ok) and this would be immediate terms for probation. Parent's need to be working with their children at home on their over all behaviour and correcting such behavioural issues especially when they become an issue at daycare. The mom's attitude wouldn't fly with me and I wouldn't keep on a family that would not work with me on a team level. I would term over something like this.

IT'S AN EXPENSIVE BEHAVIOUR ISSUE TOO! Think of all the money lost replacing all the stuff such a child destroys? Would you really make anything off the space in the end?

Just my opinion.
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Old 03-27-2012, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Angelwings36 View Post
If I had a child breaking my personal stuff or the daycare toys and equipment on a regular basis you can bet your bottom dollar that he would be kept away from all such things until he learned to respect the property around him. Would I seclude him to a blanket off in the corner? Hmmm... possibly. Or he would go in a gated area with non breakable objects. Same thing right?

Honestly I don't tolerate destructive behaviour though (as there is no real reason for a child to act out this way and think it's ok) and this would be immediate terms for probation. Parent's need to be working with their children at home on their over all behaviour and correcting such behavioural issues especially when they become an issue at daycare. The mom's attitude wouldn't fly with me and I wouldn't keep on a family that would not work with me on a team level. I would term over something like this.

IT'S AN EXPENSIVE BEHAVIOUR ISSUE TOO! Think of all the money lost replacing all the stuff such a child destroys? Would you really make anything off the space in the end?

Just my opinion.
He hasn't broken a whole lot. Few toys few personal. Luckily I learned to keep as much as I can away. Sometimes he just gets in a mood I guess. More so when DCM is around. I have noticed 90% of the kids I have worked with think the rules change just because Mom is there.

I have been taking the items away as soon as he misuses it. He has been shocked. When he acts out over my taking a toy away he sits and I tell him when he thinks he cam play nice he may return. When he does get up I remind him again we don't throw or HULK SMASH anything at daycare. He's been better. Maybe it was a phase, maybe he just thought he would see how far he could go. At least he is trying better. I started using a tone of voice to startle him as soon as I think he's going to swing or smash... I yell AAAATTT!!! When he looks I shake my head no and say NO. Worked today. Lets see how tomorrow goes.

Thanks everyone for the help. As always I try a little of everything offered so advise is not wasted. I do thank you all!
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Old 03-27-2012, 05:50 PM
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nannyde nannyde is offline
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So, Nan...I find it interesting that this is what you state here, but your policies, that are posted on your website seem completely opposite.

This is what you say in your policies:

. When children have escalating behavior we use “proximity control” or physically close supervision until the child exhibits the behaviors we seek for normal group activity. ( I would consider this shadowing)

We rely on the other children to show children with unwanted behavior what behavior we expect and promote. If a child persists with unacceptable behavior we “team” them up with the child in the day care who is able to show them the proper way to conduct themselves. When children with behavior issues are surrounded by balanced and stable children they will adjust quickly to the conduct of the rest of the group. We encourage the older children to model kind and co-operative behavior and to mentor the younger children who need help. Works like a charm. (I would consider this NOT being excluded or "confined" but remaining with the group to learn appropriate group behavior)

So, I am curious as to which philosophy you actually apply with your children?
Sorry I didn't see this. Too much time watching the new episode of....

Good questions:

What you bolded second:

Separation third. I have the physical space to give a child that needs their own area their own area.

You didn't include this which would be first: Discipline: We have little behavior issues with our kids. They don't hit, bite, fight, or be mean to each other in any way. The love each other and treat each other with respect and admiration. Most if not all of the children here have been raised with us since they were newborns or young infants. They have been brought up in our ways and have a strong attachment to the other kids and to their Nan.

We use a strict supervision and correction system that pretty much eliminates any aggressive behavior. We have "rules of play" that are wrought from 30 years of experience caring for kids which keep the kids focused on the toys and co-operative play. When children have escalating behavior we use "proximity control" or physically close supervision until the child exhibits the behaviors we seek for normal group activity.


So we guarantee that we have little behavior issues. We guarantee they don't hit, bite, fight or be mean to each other.

We discuss the "strict supervision and CORRECTION system and our rules of play. I have incoming parents read the rules of play on my blog.

IF the above did not work I would use separation with supervision. I have 150 square foot of space for each child in the house so I would easily have enough room to give a kid that was persistently acting out their own area.

What I definitely would NOT do is play with a child repairing the toys they just broke.

Shadowing is easily possible in my setting because of the way i have the room set up. We have the set up to sit the adult in close proximity to anyone who needs it and enough stuff to keep them busy while the adult is tending to what they need. I also don't have the adult doing close proximal supervision having to leave the area at all. That's a benny in having a full time staff assistant but I know is not easily replacable when you are doing care by yourself. If you are by yourself I would reccomend having play yard panels to separate the chlld physically within the area you are working so that you can come and go into the kitchen or bathroom without worry.

I'm a very strong believer in "go to bed" and think it's a sad thing that it has been removed as a reasonable consequence for acts of aggression, violence, distruction etc.. the really high level offenses. I think a lot of states have prohibited it because it is abused and not used as a measure of last resort.

I remember when I was a kid and visiting my aunties with my mom. I came inside and said something smart to my mom and my mom and two aunties turned their heads towards me ...... gave me the evil eye....... and said in unison "do you want to go to bed?" They weren't kidding and even though I was at my aunts they would have gladly popped me into my cousins bed for as long as it took to get the idea to watch how I talk to the Mama.

Bottom line is we have removed pretty much every affective means of disciplining kids now and providers feel overwhelmed with the notion that they are caring for kids that get to do whatever they want with absolutely no real consequence. We have to abide by the rules but it doesn't mean that the discipline ones aren't really bad ideas and don't work. Our kids behavior on a whole isn't getting better. Ask any vet school teacher what they think and you will most likely hear that it gets worse every year and is getting worse real quick like now.
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Old 03-28-2012, 07:47 AM
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rhondawarren rhondawarren is offline
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Just need some ideas please. I have a 3 yr old DCB who is sometimes destructive. Sometimes by accident and others on purpose. I use time out as a way to get him away from the toy he broke. He has broken a few things around the home as well. Purposly ripped off a windsock outside. Purposley threw a ceramic bird off of the porch shattering it.... Just a couple examples over the past yr.

I was so proud of the new felt board I made yesterday. It is double sided hinged, (forms a triangle when open to play) inside the backs are fabric slotted compartments to keep all the felt pieces right with the board. I introduced it and the new felt pieces I made. It was a big hit!! Until clean up. DCB was pulling on it to get it away from another child. Before I could get his hands off of it he had grabbed the back pocket and yanked ripping the new fabric which was not cheap! (I had it tacked down under the seams by a staple gun and that allowed it to tear easier I guess) I scolded him and asked why he ripped that. He shrugged his shoulders like always. He had no problem sitting in time out didnt phase him as it was clean up time anyway.

DCM comes and I talked to her about it. I told her we had to come up with something to stop his destruction. She just looks at me. I told her the effort put into that board (made on real wood BTW not cardboard like my last) She just looked around at the kids playing. Then said "boooobbbyyy" in a whining i dont want to correct my kid tone like she ALWAYS says and thats ALL she ever says is a dragged out name like they know better RIGHT! I told Bobby to come out of the yard and talk to us. He was told 4 times by me and 3 times by her. He looked up the first 2 times then went on ignoring us swinging and then running around. I had another child in the house to potty (SA) so I couldnt leave in case they got into something otherwise I would have went down and retrieved him. I don't think it was too much to expect the DCM to make her child come discuss it so we could correct him together. She just laughed it off and said he's too busy playing.

I went on with my complaint... I told her time away from the toys isnt working so what does she suggest. She just went on to tell me "thats ok he did this... and that... at home" It's not ok, so how do we fix it? She says she doesnt know and says "come one sweetie lets go" Sweetie? After he just ignored us and broke a new project? She goes gets him from the yard and I tell her we should talk to bobby together before she leaves. She looked down at him and said "stop breaking stuff" he said "k" and they left.

He doesnt cause damage every day but I'm just tired of him thinking he can do what he wants and DCM thinking it's ok! She should have at least made him come out of the yard and talk with us!

I am so fed up with the no where talks with DCM no matter the issues she just drags out the name like they know better and says don't... again. It doesn't stop! Anyone have any ideas? I didn't buy the felt but I did buy the materials and take over an hour making all of it. I wanted to tell her she has to replace the material but she will say they don't have the money. I fight to get paid pennies a day!

I welcome any thoughts to change this situation. TIA!

I had the same issue with a 2 year old little boy last week. He wrote on my couch, tore off a ton of toilet paper and shoved it into my toilet, he pealed seal off of my back door, he rammed into my pantry door and tore it off of its tracks .... just to name a few things he done.

I wasnt charging them enough anyways and his four year old sister wasnt fully potty trained and was pooping her pants for me to clean up with no clean clothes sent with her.

So when the mother got here Friday I had a letter of a rate increase waiting for her because I was raising my rates anyways across the board. She also asked how her kids were so I let it rip I told her everything they tore up, everything they said to me, how they didnt listen to a thing I say.

So over the weekend I text her to see if she saw the rate increase and she says (of course) "I didnt see it". So I told her she needed to read over it because its effective Monday. So she text me back and said she couldnt afford the increase. So I told her well good luck then because its not worth my time for the rate she was paying.

Im no longer watching those children but ........... I am no longer having to fix tore up things in my house and things either! So sometimes its worth letting go of those causing stress, not listening or being distructive. Especially when the parents could care less!
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Old 03-28-2012, 10:31 AM
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christinaskids christinaskids is offline
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I would "ground" the kids from the toys for a few hours or all day. I explain that the toys are MY toys and if the child cant play without breaking them, then they cant play with them anymore. Ive also told my dc kids that im gonna go break their toys at their house, how would they feel? It takes the kids by surprise to picture it and i really dont have a problem with it here. Imo just asking him why he is doing it is not doing a lot for the kid. He knows its wrong but he also knows not much will happen to him if he does. He is just testing his boundaries imo.

And yes nan, i WILL put kids to bed if they act up and my parents know it. Ive never done it besides start nap 10 minutes early, but if they are getting out of control, then i am done with their behavior. I treat the kids like my own. If my kids act up, they get grounded to their room or get privlidges taken away. I dont have too many behavioral issues with my kids and my kids tell me they love me and give me hugs everyday. Younger kids are different though. Timeout starts to not work after a certain period and thats where privledges start to be taken away.
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Old 03-28-2012, 11:01 AM
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I agree with christinaskids as stated above. Sounds so much like my crew. I have had to term one little guy who was so destructive but he was also very physical. He would really act up anytime his parents were present. They would pretend not to see what he was doing. When I asked them why they would not teach their son not to slap other kids across the face, especially in front of them. Their response was he does not know any better (he is 4 years old)! They did not correct him at all. He was aloud to go to bed whenever he wanted. He was tired all the time! He is now at another childcare and I hear he has gotten worse. He now bites adults, he will walk into a room find a person, and bite the person's leg. He rarely uses words even though he is capable of having full length conversations. He falls asleep all the time during the day. Poor thing I wish him luck!
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Old 03-28-2012, 11:51 AM
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karen karen is offline
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Another SUPERMOM! I am not sure why it's o.k. for parents to not want to teach their child about respect....
Some things I have done when children break my stuff
I do some major hand holding and keep telling the child sorry I can't let you go play because you broke my toy and that makes me very sad. After awhile I ask if they are ready to play and if they say yes they are allowed to go play but they are reminded how I don't like them being mean to my stuff. When I see that they are playing the right way they get praised "Yay Johnny I see you are doing a great job playing so nicely that makes me so happy! I am so proud of you..I knew you could do it.
In front of the parent I say hopefully tomorrow Johnny you won't be so mean to my toys/property because that makes Miss Karen very sad.
Finally and this works for me I tell the children and yes in front of the parents should I come to your house and break one of your toys.
I know how mean this sounds but sometimes it is the only thing that has worked....and I have never had to do it because the behavior has stopped.
If I did have to do it I would absolutely make sure I had the exact same toy to hand back to the child after we had a discussion about "how that made you feel"
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