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Old 04-06-2012, 11:35 AM
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Default Climbing Out Of PnP During A Tantrum

Thanks to advice from you all a couple weeks ago, I decided I had to use a pnp for my 2 year old dkg who doesn't listen. I have a ton of problems with her, but basically whenever my main attention is on another child, she climbs things, stands on chairs, throws toys, anything and everything she isn't suppose to do. She doesn't talk, and doesn't acknowlege me when I say her name and tell her "get down", "come here", "no". So when I've been feeding the baby, making lunch, or changing diapers, she goes in a pnp or highchair as soon as she misbehaves.

I don't know if this is connected or not, but the last 2 weeks she has thrown horrible temper tantrums. One lasted an hour. It started right after going outside to play, and I ended up bringing all the kids inside because I couldn't get her calmed down. Of course, right when I was calling the parent, she falls asleep. Next time, lasted 30 minutes and had dad come get her. It's horrible screaming, crying, throwing herself backward, and it starts with something minor. Yesterday it happened, and she went straight into the pnp in my bedroom. I pulled the door partway shut and went to check on the other kids. Came back 30 seconds later, she was halfway out of the pnp. Put her back in, said no, stood outside the doorway with door cracked. Same thing. So, I can't take my eyes off her, which means I can't watch the other kids. Plus, I have a 6 month old and 9 month old who sometimes start crying with the screaming. I think she's found a way to get exactly what she wants...my complete attention away from the other kids (she's very spoiled, only child, ect). Or, even better, dad comes and gets her where I'm sure she gets all the comforting she's wanting.

I don't think a child acting this way should be rewarded with attention (supervision, yes, but not where I can't take my eyes off her or move more than a foot away). I can't let her have her tantrums on the floor because of the way she throws herself around; she bounces her head off the floor. Plus, she rolls around screaming, upsetting all the other kids. It's usually right in the middle of a play area. She won't stay on a chair, a corner of the room, or on the couch. Dad said I could just put her in a room and close the door. Not only can I not leave a child alone like that, but she's destructive and pulls things off dressers, out of dresser drawers, and throws things. I'm not having either my bedroom or my daughters' rooms trashed like that. Unless I can come up with a solution of a way to contain her where I can keep her safe but not stand over her physically keeping her from getting out, I have to replace her. Not that a big part of me doesn't want to anyway, but a stubborn part of me knows this child needs discipline and structure so badly that I want to keep at it so she can learn how to behave and interact with others. I will NOT let the other children be affected any more by her behavior, including me being able to address their needs because I can't leave her side. Has anyone had similar problems, or have advice on what else I could try?
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Old 04-06-2012, 02:36 PM
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No advice really. This sounds like what I am dealing with, but it's my own kid who is behaving this way. He is 2.5 yo. He will ask for something, let's say a peice of candy. I will say no. He will beg, I'll say no again. Now let's say it is already in his hand, I will take it away. Now we have full fledged screaming fit. I'll tell him to go to time out. He does not. I carry him there. He leaves. We continue this about 4 times. He does usually sit in time out eventually. This is happening many times per day. We have consistency here, and he is not spoiled, and he is still behaving this way. I am wondering if he needs more 1:1 time with mom and dad. All I know is that it is terribly exhausting for all involved parties!
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Old 04-06-2012, 03:27 PM
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I had a child like this. 2 years old, didnt speak or acknowledge me and had tantrums all day everyday. He would bang his head on my floors, the walls, scream and scream. He was my first dck after taking a break from dc to have my son and to send my dh off on deployment. My breaking point was when his tantrums began involving my newborn baby. He would throw himself on top of him during the tantrum. After a few times of this (twice) I termed him on the spot. No advice though for you. Nothing I did made it better.
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Old 04-06-2012, 03:34 PM
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I strap a 2 1/2 y/o DCG in a booster seat and leave her there with no attention - pulled her away from the table when she started pushing her feet against it. If you have the parents come get her every time, she will realize this and throw a huge fit so mommy or daddy will come get her. Who knows what they do with her then. Possibly lots of attention, rather than a nap and no attention at home which IMO is what she needs. Tricky spot to be in. Good luck.
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Old 04-06-2012, 04:04 PM
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I agree, if she won't stay in time out or tries to climb out of pack in play, strapped in booster seat or high chair for the duration of time out. Also , a nap sack works great for keeping the climbers from climbing out of a pack in play.
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Old 04-07-2012, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bice99 View Post
I strap a 2 1/2 y/o DCG in a booster seat and leave her there with no attention - pulled her away from the table when she started pushing her feet against it. If you have the parents come get her every time, she will realize this and throw a huge fit so mommy or daddy will come get her. Who knows what they do with her then. Possibly lots of attention, rather than a nap and no attention at home which IMO is what she needs. Tricky spot to be in. Good luck.
Just curious, how does the parent of the 2.5 year old feel about her being strapped down while tantruming? You discussed this them, I'm sure. (?).
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Old 04-07-2012, 09:25 AM
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To the OP: Do you have infants or kids who are under 18 months? If so, I think you should only have kids under 24 months in a pac n play, at any time, for ANY reason. I would suggest you read the manufactures instructions and safety information. It is my understanding that if a child has the ability to climb out, they should not be placed in it. This seems to be quite unsafe to put a 2 year in one,.when she is clearly able to climb out. I don't believe they are designed as a substitute for direct supervision or a method of discipline. I think they are designed as a safe place for infants and non walkers to nap and play. I am fairly confident those who can climb can not use them safely.
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Old 04-07-2012, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by mac60 View Post
I agree, if she won't stay in time out or tries to climb out of pack in play, strapped in booster seat or high chair for the duration of time out. Also , a nap sack works great for keeping the climbers from climbing out of a pack in play.
Curious how a nap sack is used to keep a tantruming 2 year old climber in a pac n play?
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Old 04-07-2012, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia View Post
To the OP: Do you have infants or kids who are under 18 months? If so, I think you should only have kids under 24 months in a pac n play, at any time, for ANY reason. I would suggest you read the manufactures instructions and safety information. It is my understanding that if a child has the ability to climb out, they should not be placed in it. This seems to be quite unsafe to put a 2 year in one,.when she is clearly able to climb out. I don't believe they are designed as a substitute for direct supervision or a method of discipline. I think they are designed as a safe place for infants and non walkers to nap and play. I am fairly confident those who can climb can not use them safely.
I have a six month old and 9 month old, and 2 pack & plays. My dcg just turned two and when she started with me her parents told me to put her in a crib or pnp (she sleeps in crib at home). She can climb out of the crib, so I moved her to a cot for sleeping. The pnp was the first thing I thought of to keep her safe and remove her from the main play area. I placed her in my bedroom so I could give her a quieter area to calm down and stand right outside the door to monitor both her and the other children playing. If she wasn't contained in some way, she would run right back out into the middle of the play area screaming and throwing herself around, unless I held her, which I think is what she wants in the first place. It worked ok the first couple times, THEN she learned to climb out. I haven't put her in it since, which is why I'm out of ideas. Clearly that isn't safe and I don't know what to do with her the next time it happens. Of course, my main concern is her safety, and the safety of the other children, but if I'm going to continue to care for her, I HAVE to establish that her behavior will not be rewarded as it is at home with being held and cuddled.
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Old 04-07-2012, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Breezy View Post
I had a child like this. 2 years old, didnt speak or acknowledge me and had tantrums all day everyday. He would bang his head on my floors, the walls, scream and scream. He was my first dck after taking a break from dc to have my son and to send my dh off on deployment. My breaking point was when his tantrums began involving my newborn baby. He would throw himself on top of him during the tantrum. After a few times of this (twice) I termed him on the spot. No advice though for you. Nothing I did made it better.
I'm afraid of this too...my own daughter is 6 months old, and this dcg has acted out in a few minor ways against her. If I'm leaning over her pnp to try and settle her down if she's fussy, the girl with get between me and the pnp and push my legs away. I make a huge effort to not "favor" my baby by holding her too much-not that I think you can hold a baby "too" much. With her and the new 9 month old I just had start, unless they need feed or diaper changed, when they fuss I try moving them around from play mats on the floor, exersaucers, different toys, ect. to try and calm them. They do much better than the dcg at playing without needing me to entertain. I do have a fear she may get frustrated and take out her anger on another child, so I feel she has to be removed from the group ASAP when the tantrum starts.
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Old 04-07-2012, 04:20 PM
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I sympathize with you and wish I had an easy answer but I don't.

However, the biggest "players" in this scenario IMHO, need to be the parents. What exactly are they doing to prevent or curb this type of behavior at home?
Does she even have these same types of behaviors at home?

Another thing you need to look at is the environment. What kinds of things are going on right before she breaks into a tantrum? Is she frustrated from trying to do something? Is she having anger issues when being told what to do or during a specific trnasistion period of the day?

WHEN and WHY she is tantruming are the keys to figuring out how to stop them. You don't need to necessarily change her environment or give in to what she wants but you definitely need to knwo what triggers them so that she can be taught some self-regulation skills along with some self-help skills to ease her frustrations.

I would start with the parents and between the two different places (daycare and home) you all need to have a consistent and similar plan of action so that this little girl learns who is in charge. She needs to be given alternate ways that are appropriate and acceptable to express herself or to convey what it is she wants.

No matter what, you need to do whatever is in the best interest of the group of kids you have and if that means terming this dcg so that you can maintain the safety of the other children, then I would not hesitate to term if necessary.

But first and foremost, the parents need to be guiding you and working with you in how to control and manage their daughter. I know this is happening in your home but they can't just say "Oh, she isn't like that at home" and then leave it at that. They need to work with you in figuring out a way to appropriately handle this child.

She may just not be a good fit for your program or she may have other issues going on (anger issues etc) or who knows but no matter what your group as a whole is the most important thing and if this little gal is too much or is seriously jeopardizing the safety and well being of the other kids, then she needs to go.

Hang in there and it is nice to see that you care enough to try so hard to find a solution.
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Old 04-07-2012, 05:20 PM
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I have dealt with this and regretably I termed the child. I wish there was more I could have done. I don't believe terming solves anything. However I just could not handle the child. All of the kids I have had problems with got spanked at home as their punishment. Some even spanked them at pick up when I would inform them of the behavior issues.
The kids would never mind me.
I always thought it was because I was not intimidating to them. Also because spanking does not teach children apprioprate behavior.
I hope you can help her.
I wish you the best.
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Old 04-07-2012, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Clueless View Post
I have dealt with this and regretably I termed the child. I wish there was more I could have done. I don't believe terming solves anything. However I just could not handle the child. All of the kids I have had problems with got spanked at home as their punishment. Some even spanked them at pick up when I would inform them of the behavior issues.
The kids would never mind me.
I always thought it was because I was not intimidating to them. Also because spanking does not teach children apprioprate behavior.
I hope you can help her.
I wish you the best.
Terming doesn't solve anything except the fact that a child's behavior was an issue or problematic to the care of the other children in the group.

Too many providers are under the assumption that part of our duties are to solve behavior issues that are either caused by or heavily influenced by the parenting styles of their mom/dad.

Terming is only bad IMHO, when the behavior is due to the environment at child care only. When a child has issues in other areas of their life then terming is the only option if parents are not willing to change what they do.

We are child care providers not behavioral specialists and I think it is important for providers to know that terming IS an option in some cases.

We do NOT have to put up with, fix or solve issues that are directly related to everything but the care a provider gives.

Providers shouldn't be made to feel guilty for doing something in the best interest of their group.
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Old 04-07-2012, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
I sympathize with you and wish I had an easy answer but I don't.

However, the biggest "players" in this scenario IMHO, need to be the parents. What exactly are they doing to prevent or curb this type of behavior at home?
Does she even have these same types of behaviors at home?

Another thing you need to look at is the environment. What kinds of things are going on right before she breaks into a tantrum? Is she frustrated from trying to do something? Is she having anger issues when being told what to do or during a specific trnasistion period of the day?

WHEN and WHY she is tantruming are the keys to figuring out how to stop them. You don't need to necessarily change her environment or give in to what she wants but you definitely need to knwo what triggers them so that she can be taught some self-regulation skills along with some self-help skills to ease her frustrations.

I would start with the parents and between the two different places (daycare and home) you all need to have a consistent and similar plan of action so that this little girl learns who is in charge. She needs to be given alternate ways that are appropriate and acceptable to express herself or to convey what it is she wants.

No matter what, you need to do whatever is in the best interest of the group of kids you have and if that means terming this dcg so that you can maintain the safety of the other children, then I would not hesitate to term if necessary.

But first and foremost, the parents need to be guiding you and working with you in how to control and manage their daughter. I know this is happening in your home but they can't just say "Oh, she isn't like that at home" and then leave it at that. They need to work with you in figuring out a way to appropriately handle this child.

She may just not be a good fit for your program or she may have other issues going on (anger issues etc) or who knows but no matter what your group as a whole is the most important thing and if this little gal is too much or is seriously jeopardizing the safety and well being of the other kids, then she needs to go.

Hang in there and it is nice to see that you care enough to try so hard to find a solution.
The dad told me she is having tantrums at home, but not nearly as bad as here. Then he told me he thinks the tantrums are because she is getting a new tooth. He completely missed my hint I thought she was seeking attention and maybe the tantrums were worse with me because I was trying to teach her the behavior wasn't ok. It seems he always has an excuse for her behavior other than the obvious; she's spoiled and I don't think she was ever told "no" before I started caring for her.

As for causes, the only common factor is they come when I try to redirect her from something she's doing. It's not every single time that turns into a huge tantrum, but usually there is whining and tears. And I redirect this child a lot! It also varies on time of day, before nap, after nap, before lunch, after lunch...so it's hard to find anything other than the fact that I don't allow her to keep breaking rules.

On the plus side, I've learned to be so grateful my daughters have been and will be told "no" whenever they need it! They may not like it, but they will darn well grow up knowing they have limits!
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Old 04-07-2012, 07:19 PM
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Terming is only bad IMHO, when the behavior is due to the environment at child care only. When a child has issues in other areas of their life then terming is the only option if parents are not willing to change what they
The most horribly behaved child I had, a 3 year old boy, was termed for behaviors that only happened at daycare. That was the excuse the mom always gave, "well, he doesn't do any of this at home". Well, I guess he didn't hit, scratch, bite, kick and punch kids at home because there were no other kids at his home.

Im sure that the environment had a lot to do with his behavior, simply because there were other kids and adults beside his mom there. He couldn't handle it, and no one would acknowledge it.

Last edited by Michael; 04-07-2012 at 10:20 PM.
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Old 04-13-2012, 09:53 AM
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I seen a flyer from Toys R Us that sold Pack N Plays with a roof! Must be a demand for them I guess....
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