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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Subsidy For Your Own Kids
DaisyMamma 11:45 AM 04-25-2013
It sounds like such a dumb question, but if I qualify she could technically go to someone else's daycare, right?
So, what's the difference?
She happens to go to my daycare, so I can work and she takes up a fulltime spot, unpaid.
So, what's the difference?
She happens to go to my daycare, so I can work and she takes up a fulltime spot, unpaid.
rmc20021 11:49 AM 04-25-2013
I really don't think the state considers that as long as you are in the home and able to care for your own child. I don't want to sound mean, but to me that is taking advantage of the state. That's just not right.
Blackcat31 11:53 AM 04-25-2013
Our state recently put a stop to that.
If a parent is home (whether working or not) they are to care for their own child and the state assistance program will not cover child care for something like that.
I agree, I don't mean to sound harsh either but it is kind of taking advantage......Even if she is taking up a full time space, she is still YOUR responsibility.
If a parent is home (whether working or not) they are to care for their own child and the state assistance program will not cover child care for something like that.
I agree, I don't mean to sound harsh either but it is kind of taking advantage......Even if she is taking up a full time space, she is still YOUR responsibility.
Starburst 11:58 AM 04-25-2013
I am not sure if that is possible (as far as the subsidy goes), I guess it could work if she goes to a preschool center {possibly a home preschool- especially if you don't have a preschool curriculum}.
But I understand what you mean as far as being able to work at home and her go somewhere else. The FCCP I used to work for started her daycare years before she had kids and when she did have kids after they were about 2 or 3 years old (Pre-K age) she sent them to another FCCP friend of hers until they went to kindergarten {I think the friend sent her kids to the OFCCP as well}. She said she did it so that her kids could get used to not being around her all the time (when they go to kindergarten) and she also said she believes that it would be easier on them to avoid jealousy issues when they see mommy taking care of other kids or other kids playing with their toys; not to mention they counted for her numbers so she could have two open spaces that would cover the cost of the other daycare- though I am not sure if her and the other FCCP just did a free switch/charge the same amount or if they did discount care for each other.
I have thought about doing this too (not the subsidy but using another daycare for my future child while I do daycare at home) because it does make sense on some parts as far as them learning to be more independent and avoid jealousy at home but financially it doesn't make sense unless you can find another daycare in the area that charges a very similar or cheaper rate than you do and only if you can find another child to fill the spot to cover the cost. I think in most cases (according to Tom Copeland's "Record Keeping" book) you can write your children off as a tax expense because in most cases it won't make sense financially to take them to another daycare for the same price or even a higher rate than what you would charge for another DCK (unless you really liked their program or your believe that program is a better fit for your child then your own program). But I have heard that there is a limit of how many times you can do it (I think he said three years per child, but it could be different in every state or even county).
But I understand what you mean as far as being able to work at home and her go somewhere else. The FCCP I used to work for started her daycare years before she had kids and when she did have kids after they were about 2 or 3 years old (Pre-K age) she sent them to another FCCP friend of hers until they went to kindergarten {I think the friend sent her kids to the OFCCP as well}. She said she did it so that her kids could get used to not being around her all the time (when they go to kindergarten) and she also said she believes that it would be easier on them to avoid jealousy issues when they see mommy taking care of other kids or other kids playing with their toys; not to mention they counted for her numbers so she could have two open spaces that would cover the cost of the other daycare- though I am not sure if her and the other FCCP just did a free switch/charge the same amount or if they did discount care for each other.
I have thought about doing this too (not the subsidy but using another daycare for my future child while I do daycare at home) because it does make sense on some parts as far as them learning to be more independent and avoid jealousy at home but financially it doesn't make sense unless you can find another daycare in the area that charges a very similar or cheaper rate than you do and only if you can find another child to fill the spot to cover the cost. I think in most cases (according to Tom Copeland's "Record Keeping" book) you can write your children off as a tax expense because in most cases it won't make sense financially to take them to another daycare for the same price or even a higher rate than what you would charge for another DCK (unless you really liked their program or your believe that program is a better fit for your child then your own program). But I have heard that there is a limit of how many times you can do it (I think he said three years per child, but it could be different in every state or even county).
craftymissbeth 12:10 PM 04-25-2013
In my state (Kansas) you can't use subsidy for your own child in your own daycare... I'm assuming not only because they don't want anyone to abuse the system, but also because you wouldn't be getting paid for your own child if you weren't on subsidy, so why would the state pay you to take care of your own child? KWIM?
Technically, if you needed that spot open for a paying client, then you could send your child to another daycare.
ETA: In no way was that meant to be snarky
Technically, if you needed that spot open for a paying client, then you could send your child to another daycare.
ETA: In no way was that meant to be snarky
nannyde 12:13 PM 04-25-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Our state recently put a stop to that.
If a parent is home (whether working or not) they are to care for their own child and the state assistance program will not cover child care for something like that.
I agree, I don't mean to sound harsh either but it is kind of taking advantage......Even if she is taking up a full time space, she is still YOUR responsibility.
My state too. If you work in a center you can have free daycare at the center but if you work in a home daycare you can't have assistance at that home whether you are the owner or staff assistant.Our state recently put a stop to that.
If a parent is home (whether working or not) they are to care for their own child and the state assistance program will not cover child care for something like that.
I agree, I don't mean to sound harsh either but it is kind of taking advantage......Even if she is taking up a full time space, she is still YOUR responsibility.
Heidi 12:17 PM 04-25-2013
Wisconsin stopped allowing it, too. Even if your child isn't in your licensed age group. So, if you are licensed from 2-5 yo's, you can't send your 7 yo to an afterschool or summer program. They used to allow it for such circumstances, but no more.
When my son was 4, we did get a subsidy so that he could go to preschool part-time. Since I had all younger children, and there was no K-4, they were able to help with it the cost of preschool because we were income-eligible. They no longer allow that.
When my son was 4, we did get a subsidy so that he could go to preschool part-time. Since I had all younger children, and there was no K-4, they were able to help with it the cost of preschool because we were income-eligible. They no longer allow that.
DaisyMamma 12:33 PM 04-25-2013
Originally Posted by rmc20021:
I really don't think the state considers that as long as you are in the home and able to care for your own child. I don't want to sound mean, but to me that is taking advantage of the state. That's just not right.
Actually I agree.I really don't think the state considers that as long as you are in the home and able to care for your own child. I don't want to sound mean, but to me that is taking advantage of the state. That's just not right.
I just wanted to see what others thought on this.
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Our state recently put a stop to that.
If a parent is home (whether working or not) they are to care for their own child and the state assistance program will not cover child care for something like that.
I agree, I don't mean to sound harsh either but it is kind of taking advantage......Even if she is taking up a full time space, she is still YOUR responsibility.
Yes, I'm home, but its a place of business and I'm at work between 8-6.Our state recently put a stop to that.
If a parent is home (whether working or not) they are to care for their own child and the state assistance program will not cover child care for something like that.
I agree, I don't mean to sound harsh either but it is kind of taking advantage......Even if she is taking up a full time space, she is still YOUR responsibility.
No worries, I have a family on subsidy so it made me think about this earlier. I don't see how the state would ever actually allow it!
Originally Posted by craftymissbeth:
In my state (Kansas) you can't use subsidy for your own child in your own daycare... I'm assuming not only because they don't want anyone to abuse the system, but also because you wouldn't be getting paid for your own child if you weren't on subsidy, so why would the state pay you to take care of your own child? KWIM?
Technically, if you needed that spot open for a paying client, then you could send your child to another daycare.
right there! That's exactly my point! I'm working. If I qualified I could actually send my child to another daycare! And then fill her spot with a paying client.
ETA: In no way that meant to be snarky
see my response in bold above.In my state (Kansas) you can't use subsidy for your own child in your own daycare... I'm assuming not only because they don't want anyone to abuse the system, but also because you wouldn't be getting paid for your own child if you weren't on subsidy, so why would the state pay you to take care of your own child? KWIM?
Technically, if you needed that spot open for a paying client, then you could send your child to another daycare.
right there! That's exactly my point! I'm working. If I qualified I could actually send my child to another daycare! And then fill her spot with a paying client.
ETA: In no way that meant to be snarky
LOL. No worries. Im just trying to start a debate on the subject. I don't actually think the state would approve such a ludicrous request
But it amazes me what they DO allow
DaisyMamma 12:35 PM 04-25-2013
Originally Posted by nannyde:
My state too. If you work in a center you can have free daycare at the center but if you work in a home daycare you can't have assistance at that home whether you are the owner or staff assistant.
That doesn't make sense to me.My state too. If you work in a center you can have free daycare at the center but if you work in a home daycare you can't have assistance at that home whether you are the owner or staff assistant.
nannyde 12:46 PM 04-25-2013
Originally Posted by DaisyMamma:
That doesn't make sense to me.
They had too many deals where one provider would go on assistance and send her kid to the other provider.... the other provider would send her kids to the other provider.That doesn't make sense to me.
Then they would end up both keeping their own kids and just billing the state for each others kids. It was a way to get thousands of dollars of free.
I think Wisconsin had a huge issue with centers doing this with staff assistants. The owner would hire only state assistance workers and then just pay everyone a minimum wage salary but the employees just didn't show up. They could make money just by billing the state and paying a wage then to actually operate. The state would show up to inspect and no one was in the building.
DaisyMamma 12:48 PM 04-25-2013
Originally Posted by nannyde:
They had too many deals where one provider would go on assistance and send her kid to the other provider.... the other provider would send her kids to the other provider.
Then they would end up both keeping their own kids and just billing the state for each others kids. It was a way to get thousands of dollars of free.
I think Wisconsin had a huge issue with centers doing this with staff assistants. The owner would hire only state assistance workers and then just pay everyone a minimum wage salary but the employees just didn't show up. They could make money just by billing the state and paying a wage then to actually operate. The state would show up to inspect and no one was in the building.
They had too many deals where one provider would go on assistance and send her kid to the other provider.... the other provider would send her kids to the other provider.
Then they would end up both keeping their own kids and just billing the state for each others kids. It was a way to get thousands of dollars of free.
I think Wisconsin had a huge issue with centers doing this with staff assistants. The owner would hire only state assistance workers and then just pay everyone a minimum wage salary but the employees just didn't show up. They could make money just by billing the state and paying a wage then to actually operate. The state would show up to inspect and no one was in the building.
Holy crapoli!
That's crazy!
WoodOx 12:50 PM 04-25-2013
in my state its allowed apparently, people would always ask me if i get paid for having my kids in my daycare. some of them would tell me i could. it got me thinking so i called up the subsidies and they said no they would pay another provider to care for mine whilen i worked.i even qualified, but didn't see the point in putting my dd in someones else's care. so they pay someone else, not me.
sorry for typos, im on my 3ds.
Blackcat31 12:58 PM 04-25-2013
Originally Posted by DaisyMamma:
Yes, I'm home, but its a place of business and I'm at work between 8-6.
No worries, I have a family on subsidy so it made me think about this earlier. I don't see how the state would ever actually allow it!
Oh, don't get me wrong....I totally agree that it's a place of business and that you are working but you the work you are doing still allows you to be available to care for your child. Yes, I'm home, but its a place of business and I'm at work between 8-6.
No worries, I have a family on subsidy so it made me think about this earlier. I don't see how the state would ever actually allow it!
We used to have lots of what Nan posted about going on and that is why they stopped allowing it in my state too.
Our state assistance program also used to allow a relative to come to the child's home and provide care for the child and get paid but they have since stopped that practice as well. Now a child needs to go to a NON-relative care environment or have a NON-relative come into their home and care for them in order for them to get child care assistance.
I had a DCF awhile back where dad was self-employed as a contractor. The family had applied for assistance and was turned down because the state said the father was "available" to care for the children.
When the mother filed an appeal stating the father worked as a contractor going to other people's homes to work, the state said as a self employed person he had control over his schedule and should simply schedule his work hours to be opposite the mother's so the children did not qualify for assistance.
So I can definitely see why some states are buckling down on what they will and won't allow any more. Plus child care assistance costs each tax payer and absorbant amount of money that it is high time they do start putting a stop to some of the weird claims that come up.
DaisyMamma 01:59 PM 04-25-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Oh, don't get me wrong....I totally agree that it's a place of business and that you are working but you the work you are doing still allows you to be available to care for your child.
We used to have lots of what Nan posted about going on and that is why they stopped allowing it in my state too.
Our state assistance program also used to allow a relative to come to the child's home and provide care for the child and get paid but they have since stopped that practice as well. Now a child needs to go to a NON-relative care environment or have a NON-relative come into their home and care for them in order for them to get child care assistance.
I had a DCF awhile back where dad was self-employed as a contractor. The family had applied for assistance and was turned down because the state said the father was "available" to care for the children.
When they filed an appeal stating the father worked as a contractor going to other people's homes to work, the state said as a self employed person he had control over his schedule and should simply schedule his work hours to be opposite the mother's so the children did not qualify for assistance.
So I can definitely see why some states are buckling down on what they will and won't allow any more. Plus child care assistance costs each tax payer and absorbant amount of money that it is high time they do start putting a stop to some of the weird claims that come up.
That's not right!Oh, don't get me wrong....I totally agree that it's a place of business and that you are working but you the work you are doing still allows you to be available to care for your child.
We used to have lots of what Nan posted about going on and that is why they stopped allowing it in my state too.
Our state assistance program also used to allow a relative to come to the child's home and provide care for the child and get paid but they have since stopped that practice as well. Now a child needs to go to a NON-relative care environment or have a NON-relative come into their home and care for them in order for them to get child care assistance.
I had a DCF awhile back where dad was self-employed as a contractor. The family had applied for assistance and was turned down because the state said the father was "available" to care for the children.
When they filed an appeal stating the father worked as a contractor going to other people's homes to work, the state said as a self employed person he had control over his schedule and should simply schedule his work hours to be opposite the mother's so the children did not qualify for assistance.
So I can definitely see why some states are buckling down on what they will and won't allow any more. Plus child care assistance costs each tax payer and absorbant amount of money that it is high time they do start putting a stop to some of the weird claims that come up.
Originally Posted by WoodOx:
in my state its allowed apparently, people would always ask me if i get paid for having my kids in my daycare. some of them would tell me i could. it got me thinking so i called up the subsidies and they said no they would pay another provider to care for mine whilen i worked.
i even qualified, but didn't see the point in putting my dd in someones else's care. so they pay someone else, not me.
sorry for typos, im on my 3ds.
See what I mean! That's so weird. LOLin my state its allowed apparently, people would always ask me if i get paid for having my kids in my daycare. some of them would tell me i could. it got me thinking so i called up the subsidies and they said no they would pay another provider to care for mine whilen i worked.i even qualified, but didn't see the point in putting my dd in someones else's care. so they pay someone else, not me.
sorry for typos, im on my 3ds.
AmyKidsCo 02:15 PM 04-25-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Our state recently put a stop to that.
If a parent is home (whether working or not) they are to care for their own child and the state assistance program will not cover child care for something like that.
I agree, I don't mean to sound harsh either but it is kind of taking advantage......Even if she is taking up a full time space, she is still YOUR responsibility.
Blackcat, are you in WI? Our state recently put a stop to that.
If a parent is home (whether working or not) they are to care for their own child and the state assistance program will not cover child care for something like that.
I agree, I don't mean to sound harsh either but it is kind of taking advantage......Even if she is taking up a full time space, she is still YOUR responsibility.
WI just had a crack down on subsidy fraud and there were several family programs where the moms essentially traded children and paid each other through WI Shares.
But if you're under a certain income level you can claim them on the food program.
Blackcat31 03:11 PM 04-25-2013
Originally Posted by AmyKidsCo:
Blackcat, are you in WI?
WI just had a crack down on subsidy fraud and there were several family programs where the moms essentially traded children and paid each other through WI Shares.
But if you're under a certain income level you can claim them on the food program.
Nope not in Wisconsin, but I am your neighbor....I am in MN. Blackcat, are you in WI?
WI just had a crack down on subsidy fraud and there were several family programs where the moms essentially traded children and paid each other through WI Shares.
But if you're under a certain income level you can claim them on the food program.
Good point about the food program too.
...if I remember right, there used to be a tax break too for your own child being in your child care if they were under 5 and took up a space that stopped you from enrolling another child....I can't remember exactly but I remember reading about it and at the time my youngest had just turned 5 so I wouldn't have been able to claim it so I didn't read farther into it to see if it was a federal or state tax deduction....maybe someone else will recall better. (???)
Little Star75 05:49 PM 04-25-2013
I'm in California and they allow daycare providers to have subsidy as long as they qualify however they can only use the subsidy if they have a second job non-Childcare related. For example if you have a daycare and are considered "low income" working M-F 8-5 but work evenings somewhere else as an elderly caregiver, cashier, etc they will cover the Childcare for another provider. They will not pay during your business hours. I actually know of someone that is a licensed provider and work evenings as an elderly caregiver, takes her boys to a relative and pay that family member. At least in the county I'm in they cover these services.