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Hunni Bee 07:06 AM 10-26-2014
This is a followup to article I posted last week about the daycare fire.

Apparently the child was still strapped in his car seat.

http://m.nbc12.com/nbc12/db_352352/c...tguid=i3htCZHl


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nannyde 07:43 AM 10-26-2014
Holy crap. This was a veteran provider too.
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Josiegirl 07:56 AM 10-26-2014
Why oh why
I don't get it. I can understand she was distraught and might not have been able to say I've got 7 or 8 or whatever kids in care. BUT to know WHO you've got in your care at every moment is a whole other story. Those 20 minutes(I think) when he could have been rescued might have made the whole difference if the officials knew exactly where to look.
And to leave him in his carseat. Why was it over turned, had there been explosions or something? That poor poor child. I cannot imagine what he went through and what the parents are going through.
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snbauser 11:09 AM 10-26-2014
I am so sad for that child and his family. But I am extremely angry at that "provider"! To not know how many kids are in your care at any given time is inexcusable. To not know that there is a child still strapped in their car seat, is horrible. Those firefighters may have been able to save that child's life if they were told quickly that there was a child in there, and where that child was. And she didn't have working smoke detectors. Strike 3. I hope they throw the book at her.
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lovemykidstoo 11:32 AM 10-26-2014
That is a horrific story. I read the report too from the firefighters that there was a link to. I cannot even imagine the poor firefighters that turned that carseat over and discovered that child what they are going through also. It probably overturned because he was fighting for his life. Poor baby.
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NightOwl 11:37 AM 10-26-2014
The first thing that comes to mind with the overturned seat is that the baby struggled hard to free himself. This just makes me sick. And why was he in an upstairs bedroom strapped into a car seat?? This woman has been doing this plenty long enough to know about positional asphyxiation.
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Cradle2crayons 12:23 PM 10-26-2014
Originally Posted by snbauser:
I am so sad for that child and his family. But I am extremely angry at that "provider"! To not know how many kids are in your care at any given time is inexcusable. To not know that there is a child still strapped in their car seat, is horrible. Those firefighters may have been able to save that child's life if they were told quickly that there was a child in there, and where that child was. And she didn't have working smoke detectors. Strike 3. I hope they throw the book at her.
I'm still trying to figure out why a 1 year old was buckled in a car seat? I mean those handled infant seats aren't for kids over a certain weight/age etc. why would a parent drop off a one year old in a huge car seat buckled up.

I'm very confused also why Dhs isn't pursuing this.
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TheGoodLife 01:36 PM 10-26-2014
Originally Posted by Cradle2crayons:
I'm still trying to figure out why a 1 year old was buckled in a car seat? I mean those handled infant seats aren't for kids over a certain weight/age etc. why would a parent drop off a one year old in a huge car seat buckled up.

I'm very confused also why Dhs isn't pursuing this.
Exactly what I was thinking. So unbelievably sad, and I can't believe DHS isn't doing anything in the case.
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EntropyControlSpecialist 01:52 PM 10-26-2014
Originally Posted by Cradle2crayons:
I'm still trying to figure out why a 1 year old was buckled in a car seat? I mean those handled infant seats aren't for kids over a certain weight/age etc. why would a parent drop off a one year old in a huge car seat buckled up.

I'm very confused also why Dhs isn't pursuing this.
My 14-month-old is still a good 6" shorter than the outside shell and 6 pounds lighter than the weight limit with her bucket seat so we still use it. Just depends on the kiddo.

So soooo sad about that little one.
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sahm1225 04:16 PM 10-26-2014
Originally Posted by Cradle2crayons:
I'm still trying to figure out why a 1 year old was buckled in a car seat? I mean those handled infant seats aren't for kids over a certain weight/age etc. why would a parent drop off a one year old in a huge car seat buckled up.

I'm very confused also why Dhs isn't pursuing this.
I think the height/weight limits have been raised on some car seats because I currently have 2 just turned 1 year olds that are still using their infant car seats. My own dd still hasn't hit the weight/height limit on her infant car seat and she's 2 (we no longer use the infant car seat and when we did, we didn't take it out of the car.)

This is just a sad news story. The child could've possibly been saved if the firefighters got to him in time. The article says she was surprised when the fire department told her he was taken to the hospital. That just makes it even stranger.
I hope DHS is investigating this. Some parts of this are just not making any sense
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nannyde 06:46 PM 10-26-2014
My guess is she didn't have enough pack n plays or
She didn't want him standing up screaming or
He could get out of the pnp she has
And
The car seat was most likey hers.

They found the car seat tipped over. I wonder how that happened.

]
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Cat Herder 04:36 AM 10-28-2014
Originally Posted by nannyde:
My guess is she didn't have enough pack n plays or
She didn't want him standing up screaming or
He could get out of the pnp she has
And
The car seat was most likey hers.

They found the car seat tipped over. I wonder how that happened.

]
I don't.

This needs to be a criminal case.

Wait for it......

Detector battery missing, no extinguisher, 8 kids, operating illegally, told 911 that all kids were out prior to fire dept arrival, a firefighter was also burned clearing the second floor.... The fire report says it all.
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taylorw1210 04:58 AM 10-28-2014
The little guy looks like he would've still fit in an infant car seat. Perhaps he was sleeping when he arrived and she just kept him in it? Or she often sleeps in him it? Neither are ok by any means.

That poor little boy.
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nannyde 05:24 AM 10-28-2014
Originally Posted by Cat Herder:
I don't.

This needs to be a criminal case.

Wait for it......

Detector battery missing, no extinguisher, 8 kids, operating illegally, told 911 that all kids were out prior to fire dept arrival.... The fire report says it all.
You think she injured him before the fire?

At first I thought maybe he was dead before the fire but it looks like he was alive when they pulled him out and died at the hospital. I didn't think about him being injured??? Is that what you mean?
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Cat Herder 05:34 AM 10-28-2014
Originally Posted by nannyde:
You think she injured him before the fire?

At first I thought maybe he was dead before the fire but it looks like he was alive when they pulled him out and died at the hospital. I didn't think about him being injured??? Is that what you mean?
I did not think that....they would have found that. My bet is he could climb out of a PNP, was difficult to transition to a mat and cried a lot. It was right after lunch time. Easier to strap him in and leave him out of earshot (same thought as you).

I was referring to the car seat being below the level of smoke. Which increases the likelihood that he was awake for most of it. It is horrific. She KNEW better and made the CHOICE. 25 minutes he was strapped in there, after everyone else was out. 25 minutes.
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Cat Herder 05:51 AM 10-28-2014
... she also advised that she had two cats in the house...."

This from the Fire Fighter forum.... (I found another article, below)

She knew how many cats she was responsible for that day, just not kids.

HOW does that happen?????

By MARK BOWES Richmond Times-Dispatch

A 1-year-old Chesterfield County boy fatally injured in Tuesday’s fire at a Midlothian home day care without working smoke detectors was found by firefighters strapped in an overturned car seat on the second-floor during a second sweep of the house, a fire incident report says.

Day care operator Laurie Underwood initially provided fire officials with an inaccurate count of children in her care, telling them she had been watching seven kids and all had been evacuated safely. But fire officials informed her that with the child they rescued and took to the hospital, they counted eight children, the report says.

A Chesterfield fire marshal then had Underwood write a list of the the children and “we found paperwork that listed all the kids in her care.” Between the paperwork and list, fire officials counted 10 children, prompting the fire marshal to alert the incident commander “of the possibility of two additional missing kids,” according to the report.

Firefighters were then sent back into the house to look for additional children on both floors of the house and inside a room above the garage, but none was found. About an hour later, Chesterfield police and the fire marshal’s office determined that two children they thought may still be missing actually hadn’t shown up to the day care that day, the report says.

It was during the secondary search of the home, after the fire largely had been extinguished, that a fire crew searching the second floor soon found a child car seat/carrier upside down in a bedroom. When they turned it over, a child was found strapped in. “Notifications were made over the radio and the child was removed from the car seat/carrier and quickly removed from the structure,” the report says.

Joseph Matthew Allen was immediately taken to St. Francis Medical Center with life-threatening injuries and, after being stabilized there, was transferred to VCU Medical Center, where he died early Wednesday.

The report indicates that Underwood, who did not have a required state license to operate a home day-care for eight children, was questioned several times about the number of children in her care. She told one fire official twice that everyone had been evacuated. She also advised that she had two cats that were still inside.

Chesterfield fire Lt. Jason Elmore on Tuesday noted that Underwood was very distraught “trying to get everyone out of the home” and her emotional state likely contributed to the miscount.

Asked about what conclusions officials may have drawn about the boy being found strapped in an overturned car seat, Elmore declined to speculate on how he ended up in that position. “The location of Joseph Allen is part of the active investigation,” he said.

The report said at least one smoke detector failed to operate because it was missing batteries. Asked to elaborate, Elmore said investigators found at least two inoperable smoke detectors. “The homeowner discovered the fire in the garage prior to smoke entering the home where the alarms were located,” he noted.

Fire investigators are still working to determine the cause of the fire, which started inside the attached garage. Elmore said a determination may take until the middle of next week at the earliest.

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Angelsj 05:51 AM 10-28-2014
Originally Posted by Cat Herder:
I did not think that....they would have found that. My bet is he could climb out of a PNP, was difficult to transition to a mat and cried a lot. It was right after lunch time. Easier to strap him in and leave him out of earshot.

I was referring to the car seat being below the level of smoke. Which increases the likelihood that he was awake for most of it. It is horrific. She KNEW better and made the CHOICE. 25 minutes he was strapped in there, after everyone else was out. 25 minutes.
My youngest two used to play a game where they would strap each other into their seats in the house and flip them over to be "turtles." This little guy was probably fighting to flip the seat over himself as he struggled to get out of it, so I agree, he was likely fully awake for the whole thing.

Ugh! And I agree on the criminality of this case.
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nannyde 07:00 AM 10-28-2014
Originally Posted by Cat Herder:
I did not think that....they would have found that. My bet is he could climb out of a PNP, was difficult to transition to a mat and cried a lot. It was right after lunch time. Easier to strap him in and leave him out of earshot (same thought as you).

I was referring to the car seat being below the level of smoke. Which increases the likelihood that he was awake for most of it. It is horrific. She KNEW better and made the CHOICE. 25 minutes he was strapped in there, after everyone else was out. 25 minutes.
When I first heard it I was going all Jessica Tata in my head. Thinking about how sick someone could be.

I thought maybe she killed him before the fire and started the fire to cover it up. Then I found out he was alive when they pulled him out.

I know... going too far.. but when you deal with death and injury cases as part of your living.. it's easy to go way wackadoo on these deals.

Does anyone know if she has been arrested?
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Cat Herder 07:17 AM 10-28-2014
Originally Posted by nannyde:
When I first heard it I was going all Jessica Tata in my head. Thinking about how sick someone could be.

I thought maybe she killed him before the fire and started the fire to cover it up. Then I found out he was alive when they pulled him out.

I know... going too far.. but when you deal with death and injury cases as part of your living.. it's easy to go way wackadoo on these deals.

Does anyone know if she has been arrested?
Believe me, I understand. It has happened before. Potty training, nap battles and crying. We know the triggers, but nobody wants to talk about it. Could not happen to them... always someone else. (Lynchburg Virginia Sept 2014, Linda Holmes, Constance Gilbert Sept. 2014, Alabama, too)

Not yet. I think the investigation is ongoing.... From outside looking in people would assume she is a distraught innocent.

They don't know that making the choice to strap him in and leave him up there was a KNOWN crime to her, not in his best interest. That operating illegally is a known crime to her, not a oversight. That not keeping accurate attendance, practicing fire safety techniques and roll calls upon evacuation are known crimes to her, not caused by her emotional state.

It will take a jury of her peers for this level of negligence to be fully understood. Can you name one 20 year provider who would say she is not at fault? I'd bet my neighbors 14 year old babysitter would have done better....
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crazydaycarelady 07:23 AM 10-28-2014
What time was the fire? That might help determine if he arrived asleep in his car seat.
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Cat Herder 07:32 AM 10-28-2014
Originally Posted by crazydaycarelady:
What time was the fire? That might help determine if he arrived asleep in his car seat.
12:16:34sec

It is still illegal to leave him asleep in his car seat if he arrived at 12:16.

"Toddler means a child from 16 months of age up to 24 months of age" - This child was under infant sleep regs in Virginia. KNOWN. PG. 69 of the regs go even further into supervision of sleeping children. "Awareness of and responsibility for each child in care, including being near enough to intervene if needed" She knew this, for 20 years.

*** I understand if she simply became desensitized, stressed, burnt out and took the easy way out. I just wish there was more training and accountability for this stuff so we DON'T become that way. We need to use these cases to remind and scare each other. The results are permanent. KWIM??? Please don't take this as a personal attack. It is not meant that way...

I had the same thought you did... a couple times. I want to make the point that we should not.... even if we feel for her, she is accountable for this.
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crazydaycarelady 07:39 AM 10-28-2014
I know. And at 12:16 I certainly hope he wasn't in his seat since arrival. It makes you wonder if she didn't just put him in the bedroom and forget about him. If she had provided care wouldn't she remember that he was there?
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Country Kids 07:54 AM 10-28-2014
The article says he was one-so he legally could have been in the carseat unless he had turned 16 months.

Also, did maybe a mom stick him up there sleeping and she didn't know it or was told and forgot. I know, really far fetched but just thinking outside the box. Was it maybe a day he wasn't usually there and she didn't remember he was there that day.

Why didn't they see him the first time they went through or hear him crying?

The bottom line-she was operating ilegally without proper equipment and it cost this baby his life. Not good at all.

Flip side to this coin-what if she was operating legally with all the proper equipment and this still happened.. Would anyone change their minds?
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Cat Herder 07:57 AM 10-28-2014
Originally Posted by crazydaycarelady:
I know. And at 12:16 I certainly hope he wasn't in his seat since arrival. It makes you wonder if she didn't just put him in the bedroom and forget about him. If she had provided care wouldn't she remember that he was there?
Horrific thought, isn't it.

There is no mention of an assistant/family member/parent who could have taken kid up, then left without telling someone.... Could you imagine what that would be like....
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Cat Herder 07:59 AM 10-28-2014
Originally Posted by Country Kids:
The article says he was one-so he legally could have been in the carseat unless he had turned 16 months.

Also, did maybe a mom stick him up there sleeping and she didn't know it or was told and forgot. I know, really far fetched but just thinking outside the box. Was it maybe a day he wasn't usually there and she didn't remember he was there that day.

Why didn't they see him the first time they went through or hear him crying?

The bottom line-she was operating ilegally without proper equipment and it cost this baby his life. Not good at all.

Flip side to this coin-what if she was operating legally with all the proper equipment and this still happened.. Would anyone change their minds?
A burning house is black dark.... there is no visibility. They were feeling around, in the dark, one handed (other hand holds lifeline) for a human form. The carseat was upside down, in a fully involved house fire. One firefighter sustained injuries. Provider, not once, but twice stated everyone was out.

If she had a permit to operate legally she still illegally operated her family child care and the result was a child death.

I am confused on why letting a 12 month old sleep in a car seat would be legal. It is VERY illegal. Typo?
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Country Kids 08:05 AM 10-28-2014
Originally Posted by Cat Herder:
If she had a permit to operate legally she still illegally operated her family child care and the result was a child death.

I am confused on why letting a 12 month old sleep in a car seat would be legal. It is VERY illegal. Typo?
Sorry totally spaced the whole sleeping thing when I was typing that part! I was thinking everyone was saying it was wrong or illegal to have him in the infant type of carseat.

Need more wake up time!
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nannyde 08:36 AM 10-28-2014
do we know the exact age of the kid?
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Cat Herder 08:48 AM 10-28-2014
Originally Posted by nannyde:
do we know the exact age of the kid?
13-month-old boy was fatally injured

mistakenly left inside the home for 34 minutes after the initial fire alarm

caring for eight children at the time of the fire

no family day home shall care for more than four children under the age of 2,

Six of the eight children receiving care were younger than 2

The ages of the other children were 7 months, 8 months, two at 16 months, 22 months, 2 years and 6 years,

In addition to civil penalties for not having a day care license, the day care operator could potentially face a felony child neglect charge related to leaving the toddler behind during the fire. But a Chesterfield prosecutor on Wednesday said it was premature to discuss such a charge because not all the facts are known.

The cause of the fire could weigh heavily in the decision, he said.

Above By MARK BOWES Richmond Times-Dispatch


I have no words right now...... the parent comments on the articles about "this will drive up our daycare costs"... "need safety standards.. but how can single mothers afford to work with those care levels?" Current client "My child was there... I have no doubt that everything that could have been done to save lives was done"
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nannyde 09:01 AM 10-28-2014
Are the playpens that shallow now that a 13 month old can get out?

Cohle got out of an old school graco at exactly that age but he was baby Huey... ginormical child.
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Cat Herder 09:06 AM 10-28-2014
Originally Posted by nannyde:
Are the playpens that shallow now that a 13 month old can get out?

Cohle got out of an old school graco at exactly that age but he was baby Huey... ginormical child.
Yes.

I transition them to mats at 12 months for that reason.

They also learn to tear the super thin mesh sides out and flip up the cardboard mattress, pulling up the beams, causing the whole thing to cave and trap limbs. At best.

Doable in active supervision environments, but horrible in passive types.
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daycarediva 10:54 AM 10-28-2014
http://ftpcontent4.worldnow.com/wwbt...ayCareFire.pdf

THIS made me sick to read.

She said they were all out. TWICE.

THEN they found paperwork, and they started searching for 2 more kids. Those firefighters, going back in, after all that time, looking for someones babies.

Criminal. She should be charged with manslaughter. Operating an illegal business that was the direct result in a child's death.

DO NOT OPERATE ILLEGALLY!

Regs-are WELL INTENDED to keep these children SAFE. KNOW them, FOLLOW THEM, remember that this is your livelihood, and your FREEDOM.

There isn't a day that goes by that I don't think to myself 'What would I want done if this was MY child?'
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Tags:confinement equipment, death at daycare, equipment, fire safety, illegal providers, negligent homicide, safe sleep
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