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Old 03-22-2013, 11:07 AM
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Default Update On My Two Troubled Kids

So I had posted that I had two new kids in care, who only played video games and watched TV at home. I've had some issues with the mom, as well, and have tried to gently tell her time and time again the way I run things. She is a former home daycare provider, and is always emailing or texting me telling me to do this, that, or the other. She did turn me on to MGT and we are using it, I was grateful for that, but every day it's something like - "Here is what I did, you should do this" and long directions and pictures added to it. I normally just say thank you, or I'm already working on something similar, or I have my own ideas.

She gave me a laundry list of foods her son doesn't like and told me she'd bring nutella (to replace peanut butter and to smear on anything). I got her son to try peanut butter in a sandwich and he LOVED it. She also kept packing his DS and telling him to ask me if he could play it during Quiet Time. I never let him, and kept reiterating we don't play with electronics in daycare.

For a few days the two kids were very disrespectful to my toys and when allowed to play in rooms with my older kids they broke the rules and the oldest even broke a picture frame that was in a blocked off room, and didn't tell anyone. So for ONE day they had to stay with me at all times. I had a lot I had to get done, laminating, ect for the daycare and therefore they stayed with me in the baby room most of the day where there are a ton of toys, just made for toddlers and babies.

During nap time, when everyone is asleep but the 5 year old (whose mat is out of sight of the TV) I watch tv while I work on more daycare things. All my families know this, none have an issue with it. Including this family. Since I'm open 24/7 the TV does come on at times when kids are here. My family lives here too. The TV is in the baby room, so the only time the big kids are in here is nap time. Yesterday, I turned on the TV and it was on Spike or Bravo or something with CSI on. It was only on for a minute, and I didn't think too much of it as all the parents said their kids watch that kind of stuff at home since they watch what they are watching. I turned the channel to some documentary thing, that was all words and not any visuals.

At snack time I had an issue with the 5 year old. I made a plate of different foods, including one he didn't like, with the intention of exposing him to it while also allowing him other foods he did like. He immediately threw a fit and gave his pretzels away. A few minutes later he changed his mind and instead of asking for more, he started shouting that another little boy had stolen them. This child doesn't steal food, so I asked him to tell me the whole story and he admitted he gave them away but wanted them back. So I had him get down from the table for a few minutes so we could discuss lying, and when we were done I sat him back down and he threw a fit again, after being offered another pretzel to try. So again, I had him get down from the table. I don't allow kids to grump at the table about what they are eating, because it discourages other kids from eating it too. I told him he had to wait 10 minutes to eat snack, and he could eat with David (my son and his best buddy) when he got home. So when David got home I sat him down with then snack minus the raisins.

Last night after they were picked up, and mom was shocked that he had actually eaten PB! I also wrote in the take home notebook not to bring nutella or the DS to daycare as DCB didn't need it.

So I got this Loooooong text about an hour later, telling me that DCB had said he was not allowed to eat a snack until he was done throwing a fit and she didn't like that as it taught him I won't feed him if he's bad and only when he is good. Which, yes, in my home if you are throwing a temper tantrum at the table you must remove yourself until you are done. I do not reward any tantrums in my home. She also said DCB told her I was watching "adult tv" at nap time and he was scared. He never mentioned a word to me about it! It was literally one minute of CSI and he watches super hero movies at home! She asked "May I ask what you are watching" after a few accusatory sentences of everything I did wrong today.

I really felt like I was on trial and I truly believe it's because I've gotten DCB to behave a lot better, and to eat more foods. My husband wanted me to term this family a few weeks back and now he is amazed by their behaviour. I have been working really hard with them to do better here and it seems as if she is angry by that. I sat there completely dumbfounded and HURT, because I am a super friendly person who tries to not upset anyone but it feels as if everything I do is wrong.

Today during quiet time DCB told me, "Now, remember! Mom said you can't watch any TV anymore when I'm over here!" Well, mom did not, but I also don't appreciate using her kids to tell me what I can and can't do in my own home!

DCB is telling me also, I don't have to lay quietly, or for the full naptime because he will tell his mom on me. I feel as if she's told her children to be spies for her and try to get me in trouble, which is ridiculous, but thats really what it feels like.

Last night, we sent this email back in response to the texts

"Hey,

Sorry I missed you at the door, my baby has been super cranky lately and he needed some quiet while he nursed.

DCG was perfectly fine today and had no issues at all.

I guess I should have explained the toy thing better. The kids disrespected the rules about the toys yesterday so I explained to them that today, in order to earn my trust back they would need to not go into the main day care room with the toys unsupervised at all. We weren't able to spend too much time in the day care room today for various reasons but the kids had plenty of time in the living room where there are plenty of toys. They will be allowed to play unsupervised with the daycare toys again tomorrow, as long as they remain respectful and follow the rules.

The snack deal wasn't used against him in any way. I told him that since he ate his peanut butter at lunch like a champ, maybe he could try pretzels during snack time and see if he liked them. I also told him everyone would get pretzels and raisins so it would work out fine if he didnít want the pretzels. I gave everyone the pretzels initially and before I had a chance to get anyone raisins, DCB began yelling about my two year old stealing his food. This is unlike my two year old so I asked DCB again what happened and he admitted that he had given his pretzels to my two year old. I asked him to leave the table for a few until he calmed down and when he came back I asked him if he wanted to try a pretzel again before getting the raisins. He said yes but began throwing a fit again directly after. I asked him to leave the table again and he wasn't allowed to come back until my 4 year old came home about 10 minutes later. At that point, he sat down with my 4 year old and was allowed to have raisins. DCB is well aware of the consequences of throwing a fit and getting up from the table, so having to sit out for a few minutes was a natural consequence.

As far as the tv goes, I tend to watch tv some during quiet time while I work on various things. I guess the tv got changed to CSI at some point (The dvr does this when it records stuff for whatever reason) and I didnít notice for a minute or two. Once I realized I changed it but DCB didnít mention anything so I didnít think anything of it at the time.

Let me know if you need anything else. See you tomorrow! "


My husband took care of pick up because I was nursing the baby.

This morning she just dropped them off and didn't say much. DCB said mom told dad to pick him up before quiet time so he didn't have to do it, which he didn't and it's know halfway through quiet time. DCB is making it plainly obvious that he is going to "tattle" on me. All my other parents love what I do, and agree with it. If I tell one of my DCD's about his daughter misbehaving he talks with her right there about it. I feel like I can't win, with this family, but as they pay me a good portion of my income right now I can't really afford to term them, although I think they may fire me before too long! What do I do?!
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Old 03-22-2013, 11:24 AM
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I don't see where you've done anything wrong. I have one dcb who used to be like this too...always "tattling" on me. Mom didn't fall for it but Dad did and he'd challenge everything I did with this boy. I have to say I don't care to be defending myself against things a four year old is saying about me.

Really, what are your options? You can continue to do your best to do what works and you know is right and risk losing this family, or you can do things differently to suit this child and his mother in the hopes of keeping them.
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Old 03-22-2013, 11:27 AM
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I would sit down with mom and tell her that this is the way things are done. She signed on with you knowing how things work. She can either agree to allow you to run your program the way you run it or she will have to find someone else to watch her kids. I know you said that this is a large part of your income but it sounds like she is playing her kid against you and that will only lead to bigger troubles if you don't stop it now.
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Old 03-22-2013, 11:27 AM
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I would make a point to talk to mom at pick up today no matter what. Something along the lines of "mom, tommy is telling me he doesn't have to do quiet time in my home, but I assured him that mom and dad were well aware of my rules here and agreed to it when they signed on. I just want us all to be on the same page so we won't have any confusion, thanks." Said with a smile as you bundle the out the door. I think by tackling it head on you will take the wind out of his sails.
Mom sounds like a handful - and to be honest many providers I've talked to have said former providers tended to be the worst clients...
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Old 03-22-2013, 11:30 AM
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You provide a service. You do not work FOR them, so they can't "fire" you . It sounds like you need to speak up to this mom about how you run your daycare and she can either take it or leave it. If a dcb talked like that to me I would tell him to stop talking like that and explain that when he is ay my house I am in charge ,not his mom/dad. It sounds like this boy knows/thinks his parents are the boss over you and that you have no say.
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Old 03-22-2013, 11:30 AM
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A good sit down & clear the air talk with parents?

or

Continue providing care, but start advertising?

Looking like the parent/provider relationship is breaking down.
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Old 03-22-2013, 12:12 PM
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I wouldn't have made older children spend the day with just baby and toddler toys. Even if you had things to take care of they could have brought at least SOME age appropriate toys into the baby room if that's where you wanted them to stay for supervisions sake.

I know you've said you're not licensed but just so you know that wouldn't fly if you were. Something else to consider, I think by not providing them toys and activities stimulating for their age and developmental levels you're sort of setting yourself and them up for trouble. Any child is bound to act out if they are bored, and the 5 year old especially so. Keeping them engaged and active will only make everyone's day go much smoother.


Not that you should bend your rules but you have to understand on some level how hard it must be for those kids being stuck in the middle. Being thrown into a daycare where they're exposed to new foods, completely new set of rules, none of the toys or activities they're use to is hard (even if what they've experienced thus far is incorrect, inappropriate or inadequate) is confusing and disorienting. Although I wouldn't like it myself either I wouldn't assume the child is tattling but rather checking in. Kids experiencing major changes in their lives look to their parents for reassurance, likewise, good attentive parents ask lots of questions.

I do hope you're able to smooth things over and everyone can come to an understanding here. I really do think it's possible. Try not to jump to defensiveness, there is a chance they aren't trying to step on your toes or offend you.

Kids that age have a big imagination and an even bigger mouth. The 5 year old could be going home and saying the same things to mom and dad to try to manipulate them as he is to you.
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Old 03-22-2013, 12:17 PM
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To clarify, there are three huge chests of toys in the baby room. Not all rattles, but blocks, legos, manipulatives, ect. Nothing that wouldn't keep a 5 year old happy. As my older children use this room a lot as well there is other things in there, just not small toys, or the centers that are in the big kid room. After a series of misbehaviour concerning my rules, and my toys I make any child "tethered" to me. They spend the day helping me do what I need to do, it does not mean they were in a room with nothing but rattles.
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Old 03-22-2013, 12:34 PM
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the mom is going to believe her kids over you and it doesnt matter what you say.. Its time to term them, I couldn't watch kids who told me what to do or would tattle on me to their parents. My house my rules.

why did the mom quit doing daycare.
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Old 03-22-2013, 12:34 PM
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I think it sounds like you do a great job and run a well thought out program. I feel you handled everything appropriately and like others said you have to talk to mom. We can not be everything to everybody. You have your standards and philosophy and the most important thing is "Be true to thine own self!"

It also sounds like you are working very hard with theses kids.

The only thing that stood out to me was the leaving kids alone while you got things done. Kids are bound to act up and get into mischief when left to their own devices. My own kids at 5 yrs....sure they played on their own (and sometimes got into trouble) but a group of child care kids need your supervision at all times or someone will get hurt or break something, etc. and that seems to be what they did. Really from what you have stated they don't sound like the type of kids that can be without direct supervision.
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Old 03-22-2013, 12:43 PM
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so heres the deal...at some point, every daycare provider has to choose whether money is more important than running your business as you see fit/loving your job/working with families that respect you. this mom has shown you what type of daycare parent she is....you decide whether you want to put up with that or not.

dont feel that you have to defend every part of your policies. she knew all this going in or at least knows it now so either the two of you can work together or you cant.
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Old 03-22-2013, 12:49 PM
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You have done everything right. And handled yourself far better than I would have if someone had attempted to treat me the way she has treated you.

There simply is no winning with some families. It actually sounds like this mom might just have a problem with putting her child in someone else's care. I have had Mom's like this, who will pick on anything you do because they hate the fact that you are with their children instead of them. I have heard plenty of ladies on here say they have experiences with DCMs just like that.

My best example was a mom who was BF but barely producing enough (was very headstrong about BF - even though she wasn't producing enough - she wouldn't supplement - which turned into another huge problem between us). She sent a can of formula for us to use in case, one day DCG was hungry so we made a bottle of the formula and fed it to her. The next morning we were berated for using the formula, saying "you can't feed that to her, she is allergic" and you should have called DCM to come nurse her (which had never been discussed with us before). Yes, they actually got upset win us for feedi g we the formula they sent !!!! DCM would purposely break even the smallest rules, in very innocent looking ways, just to prove she was in charge. Needless to say, the daycare relationship didn't last long.

Lots of support to you for dealing with this.
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Old 03-22-2013, 01:02 PM
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Wow.... thats crazy! Thats worse than what I'm dealing with!

My home is really open floor plan, but it's one of those where there are multiple levels, so the living room is three steps down from the kitchen. The library is three steps up and one room over from the living room. ect. And our walls are unbearably thin. When a child is out of my sight, they are well within my hearing range and generally this catches most incidents. From now on though, these two will always be within eye sight of me. They are here for 14 hours on the days they are here, so after about 4 in the evening we let them play with our kids in the basement where our boys rooms are, and the rest of the toys in the house. We have a storage room down there that is blocked off and all the kids are told they are not allowed in it multiple times. They had gotten through my barriers to get in there, so the basement is now off limits at all times.

The kids were picked up early today by dad but mom is coming over tonight to drop off money. I'm pretty nervous
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Old 03-22-2013, 01:03 PM
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It sounds like you are working very hard to make this work. Consider interviewing new families and putting yourself out there in the market in case things don't work out. If you DO find someone, you can term. In the meantime, you're taking steps to financially secure yourself and your family until you can get on the same page. Always try to salvage the relationship first, but if she isn't willing to work with you then you have to do what's best for you.
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Old 03-22-2013, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frgsonmysox View Post
Wow.... thats crazy! Thats worse than what I'm dealing with!

My home is really open floor plan, but it's one of those where there are multiple levels, so the living room is three steps down from the kitchen. The library is three steps up and one room over from the living room. ect. And our walls are unbearably thin. When a child is out of my sight, they are well within my hearing range and generally this catches most incidents. From now on though, these two will always be within eye sight of me. They are here for 14 hours on the days they are here, so after about 4 in the evening we let them play with our kids in the basement where our boys rooms are, and the rest of the toys in the house. We have a storage room down there that is blocked off and all the kids are told they are not allowed in it multiple times. They had gotten through my barriers to get in there, so the basement is now off limits at all times.

The kids were picked up early today by dad but mom is coming over tonight to drop off money. I'm pretty nervous
I was being very supportive on what sounds like a great child care home you have. I have no way of knowing how thick your walls are or your floor plan. It was just a suggestion, meant in no way to be critical of you.
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Old 03-22-2013, 01:23 PM
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Sounds like this mom will be difficult to work with. Considering she used to be a DCP, how can she not know that parents tell us all the time the kids don't like to eat something and then they eat fantastic for us. She should know that you have your policies (no nutella, no DS, yes quiet time/nap time) and she signed your contract. While the way you do things may differ from the way she ran her program she still signed up for YOURS. She can follow the policies and respect the way you do things or yes, she may leave. I would start advertising asap.
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Old 03-22-2013, 02:37 PM
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I wasn't taking offense, I was just trying to explain. The only daycare room thats not on my main floor is upstairs and they only use that for prek time.

I appreciate all the responses. You've made me feel a lot better. I was wondering if I was just a bad provider. All my other families love me and get along with me great. I felt, for a while there, that I was inadequate. Chris keeps telling me that I've done great with the kids, but I do feel a bit insecure working with them now.
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Old 03-22-2013, 02:44 PM
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why are the children with you for 14 hours a day, that is way too long.
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Old 03-22-2013, 02:57 PM
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A lot of my families it's that way, they tend to be military families or medical, or both and they all work LONG hours. All my families are military, 1 is dual military, two are military/medical, and one is military/real estate. Their dad is military (as well as medical), and their mom works in the medical field. They work opposite shifts too, so mom drops off before she goes to work, dad gets off work and goes home to sleep, mom picks up kids after her work. Occasionally dad gets up early and does it. So they get dropped off at 6 am, and picked up at 8 pm.
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Old 03-22-2013, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frgsonmysox View Post
I wasn't taking offense, I was just trying to explain. The only daycare room thats not on my main floor is upstairs and they only use that for prek time.

I appreciate all the responses. You've made me feel a lot better. I was wondering if I was just a bad provider. All my other families love me and get along with me great. I felt, for a while there, that I was inadequate. Chris keeps telling me that I've done great with the kids, but I do feel a bit insecure working with them now.
It really stinks when one parent can make you question your efforts as a DCP and make you feel inadequate. I have been there myself and ended up terming both of those families (after truly trying for way too long). The headache/anxiety/sadness just wasn't worth it.
Look in the mirror each morning and tell yourself, "Susie Q, you are a GREAT daycare provider. You go above and beyond for these kids. You make sure they're safe, loved, nurtured, and educated. You are a GREAT daycare provider." Speaking words out loud helps us to absorb them and fully accept them as truth. It's why negative people who speak negative words all the time tend to be .... negative.

Many, many hugs to you! I cringed reading about all they do.
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Old 03-25-2013, 12:07 PM
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Sounds like she just wants to somehow "prove" to you that she was a better provider. She sounds like a very insecure person.

Stick to what works for YOU. She can take it or leave it. She may quite testing you if you make it clear that this is YOUR business and not an extension of hers.

I feel for you though....the feelings that maybe people think you aren't up to par is hurtful and maddening. But I think that's how she WANTS you to feel. STAY POSITIVE and throw it back in her spiteful face!! You're doing a great job.
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Old 03-25-2013, 05:07 PM
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You sound like you are doing everything you can for those kids and have made so many positive changes! It sounds like you really think things through before you act and aren't simply "reacting" to their behavior-and that is awesome. They are lucky to have you
I agree that mom is probably just jealous and feeling insecure. I would NOT tolerate a child telling me what I may or may not do in my own home though! I'd try to nip that in the bud in front of mom or dad. Let him (and them) know that you are in charge and make the rules at your house.
Don't let one family bring you down and make you feel like you're a bad provider. It sounds like you're doing super things with those kids!
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Old 03-25-2013, 05:38 PM
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This lady thinks she is your boss.
She thinks she is paying you so she gets to make the rules and call the shots.
Jr. can play video games and not take a nap and eat while throwing a tantrum.


She is getting extra and wants more.
Be straight to the point and do not make any excuses or do special for her.

Keeping DCB with you in the toddler room is fine if DCB cannot behave in the other environment. There are toys there and all kids love toddler toys and can use their imaginations to play. Kids do not have to have their every whim.
When DCB offers up back chat shush him immediately. Go play toys or shhh! nap time. Act as if you did not hear him. He does not get to tell you, you tell him.

When mom sends long demanding texts do not entertain them. Say as little as you can.
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Old 03-27-2013, 03:11 PM
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UPDATE:

Mom sent a very disturbing email to me that had my husband wanting to term her on the spot. She basically accused my oldest and my husband on being inappropriate with her kids. What happened was her son told her a lie to avoid punishment and the lie involved my son telling her kid to pull his pants down. When what actually happened was her son told my kids to pull THEIR pants down. When I confronted him in front of her after this very disturbing email he admitted the truth and mom goaded him on by saying, over and over, "But the other boys did it too, right? The other boys did it too!" I'm so tired of all this bull****.

Saw she posted an ad on care.com the other day for someone who will do everything she demands (literally, it said that) so I asked her about it and told her that if she chooses to go elsewhere thats fine, but please give me two weeks notice. I noticed the date to start on the site was exactly 2 weeks away. She totally denied it, so I'mpretty sure she'll keep me until she finds someone else and then she will just up and not show up.

Chris and I have decided to term this family. I can't take it anymore!
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Old 03-27-2013, 03:22 PM
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I'd term effective immediately.

Throwing my husband and children under the bus is a hard line. Lies and accusations of sexual misconduct/abuse are as serious as it gets, there is no way I'd let the kids around my family again.

I would never allow them back into my house and make sure to let mom know I'm shocked that she'd continue to send her kids somewhere she thought her children were being hurt in any way. Emphasis on *I* as a mother would *NEVER* subject my own to such a situation if I believed such a thing had taken place nor would I ever allow them to be around other who made such slanderous false accusations against them.

Then I'd call and report the whole incident to my licensing worker to make sure it wasn't going to come back and bite me as a business owner later on too.
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Old 03-27-2013, 03:40 PM
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I'd term effective immediately.

Throwing my husband and children under the bus is a hard line. Lies and accusations of sexual misconduct/abuse are as serious as it gets, there is no way I'd let the kids around my family again.

I would never allow them back into my house and make sure to let mom know I'm shocked that she'd continue to send her kids somewhere she thought her children were being hurt in any way. Emphasis on *I* as a mother would *NEVER* subject my own to such a situation if I believed such a thing had taken place nor would I ever allow them to be around other who made such slanderous false accusations against them.

Then I'd call and report the whole incident to my licensing worker to make sure it wasn't going to come back and bite me as a business owner later on too.
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  #27  
Old 03-27-2013, 03:47 PM
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Meeko Meeko is online now
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Yes...term NOW!
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  #28  
Old 03-27-2013, 04:37 PM
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Document everything, term immediately, and call licensing

So sorry that this is happening to you. From everything I've read about you, you already have some major challenges, and you are an awesome dcp. Hang in there.
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  #29  
Old 03-27-2013, 04:39 PM
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term now, document everything. get rid of this family before this gets any worse, although it is bad enough as it is. print out her ad and save any documentation, texts, emails, etc that outline the communication. if you are licensed, call your licensor because I am sure she will. even if you are not licensed, be prepared for her to call CPS on you. sorry, she sounds like a whackadoodle so be prepared for the worse.
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  #30  
Old 03-27-2013, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheerfuldom View Post
term now, document everything. get rid of this family before this gets any worse, although it is bad enough as it is. print out her ad and save any documentation, texts, emails, etc that outline the communication. if you are licensed, call your licensor because I am sure she will. even if you are not licensed, be prepared for her to call CPS on you. sorry, she sounds like a whackadoodle so be prepared for the worse.
Have you ever noticed that when you imagine the worst-case scenario, and plan accordingly, it never happens? wierd, eh? That alone is a good reason to plan for it...
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  #31  
Old 03-27-2013, 04:51 PM
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Wow-nightmare family. Good for you for terming! Best wishes for standing your ground.
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  #32  
Old 03-27-2013, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheerfuldom View Post
term now, document everything. get rid of this family before this gets any worse, although it is bad enough as it is. print out her ad and save any documentation, texts, emails, etc that outline the communication. if you are licensed, call your licensor because I am sure she will. even if you are not licensed, be prepared for her to call CPS on you. sorry, she sounds like a whackadoodle so be prepared for the worse.
LOL
Whackadoodle
this weeks favorite word.
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  #33  
Old 03-27-2013, 05:26 PM
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No thank you. I'd rather have a lower income than deal with that headache of a family.
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  #34  
Old 03-27-2013, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by MizzCheryl View Post
LOL
Whackadoodle
this weeks favorite word.
ha ha! well yes, this is the official term for these type of daycare parents
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  #35  
Old 03-28-2013, 06:26 AM
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I would beat mom to it and hand her a term letter and it would be immediate. Accusing family is not good, and you don't want her going around spreading rumors.
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  #36  
Old 03-28-2013, 06:49 AM
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If you need the money, I'd term with 2 weeks and be ready to take her to court b/c she would probably stop coming (if its in your contract, which it sounds like it is) OR if you can afford it I'd term immediately!!! Wow, that is unbelievable
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  #37  
Old 03-28-2013, 06:59 AM
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I would term immediately...needing the money wouldn't even play into my decision, there is always a way to get by for 2 weeks which is typical notice. 2 weeks worth of money isn't worth it based on the accusations. Way too serious to keep for even 1 more day.
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  #38  
Old 03-28-2013, 08:05 AM
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I literally just sent the email to them - I feel absolutely sick. Guess it's time to re-advertise. Sigh - my other families love me
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  #39  
Old 03-28-2013, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frgsonmysox View Post
I literally just sent the email to them - I feel absolutely sick. Guess it's time to re-advertise. Sigh - my other families love me
That;s because you're awesome!

Maybe you could get new kiddos with less extreme hours. It might be a blessing in disguise.
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