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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Should I Say No To Myself?
MCC 06:08 AM 11-12-2013
Sigh... I have changed my hours from 7:30-5:30 to 8:15-5:15 to accommodate some Dr's appointments, and to reduce some stress at home.

No on was coming before 8:15, that is why I picked that time.
Only one family was coming after 5:30, once or twice a week, and I have made a deal with them that I will not start late fees until 5:31, and will allow them to pick up at 5:30 when needed.

This was two weeks ago.

I send out a new contract that had the new times on it, and also added that we got a cat.

Yesterday (day off) DCM of the 5:30 kids (two kids). sent an email that she was now needed me to sometimes accommodate an earlier drop off every once in a while b/c DCD travels a lot. She also commented that my new late fee policy ($1/min after 5:31) was too harsh for them. That one of the reasons they liked their old provider was b/c she was flexible with them when they needed it. Well, their old provider quit with no notice, so we really can't bring her into the conversation, can we?

Now I am torn. I had been struggling with changing my late pick up fee, b/c I had thought maybe it was too harsh, but I also value my time, and need to be done with my day at 5:30. I love this DCG, her and my DD are best buddies, and her new baby sister just started today, so if I lose them, I lose two kids.

Advice?
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Blackcat31 06:18 AM 11-12-2013
Originally Posted by MCC:
Sigh... I have changed my hours from 7:30-5:30 to 8:15-5:15 to accommodate some Dr's appointments, and to reduce some stress at home.

No on was coming before 8:15, that is why I picked that time.
Only one family was coming after 5:30, once or twice a week, and I have made a deal with them that I will not start late fees until 5:31, and will allow them to pick up at 5:30 when needed.

This was two weeks ago.

I send out a new contract that had the new times on it, and also added that we got a cat.

Yesterday (day off) DCM of the 5:30 kids (two kids). sent an email that she was now needed me to sometimes accommodate an earlier drop off every once in a while b/c DCD travels a lot. She also commented that my new late fee policy ($1/min after 5:31) was too harsh for them. That one of the reasons they liked their old provider was b/c she was flexible with them when they needed it. Well, their old provider quit with no notice, so we really can't bring her into the conversation, can we?

Now I am torn. I had been struggling with changing my late pick up fee, b/c I had thought maybe it was too harsh, but I also value my time, and need to be done with my day at 5:30. I love this DCG, her and my DD are best buddies, and her new baby sister just started today, so if I lose them, I lose two kids.

Advice?
Um, that's the point of a late fee. Be harsh enough to curb a parent from doing it.

I don't want the money from late fees, I want the respect and consideration that I too have a family and don't want to work super long days. I don't want the actually money. I just want parents to be on time.

If they can't be then the consequence SHOULD be harsh so they understand that they are being rude and inconsiderate.

Bottom line though this comes down to money.

You either stand your ground because the time with your family is important or you cave because the money from this family is more important....kwim?

If I were in your shoes, I would not agree to change anything. This mom can figure it out...ask family friends etc...why is it the provider that they ask first to give up time?

I wouldn't change anything. You are already going above and beyond with this family and I bet this won't be the last time they will ask for more.

Are you willing to give MORE of you and your family for someone else's?

ONLY you can answer that.
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TheGoodLife 06:57 AM 11-12-2013
It would depend on your financial situation. If it was me and I could afford to lose them, or if I had replacement families on the wait list, I would definitely stick to the hours I needed for my family. If they had a problem they could either figure it out or find a new provider. Harsh, but I am in this business first and foremost for my family- and although I will do what I can to help out my families I will not take away time from my own family!
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TheGoodLife 07:07 AM 11-12-2013
Also, if you have agreed to the occasional 5:30 PU for them, then the late fees at 5:31 should not be an issue, since your original closing time was 5:30 from when they started. KWIM? I'd stick to what you described if you can afford it!
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TheGoodLife 07:15 AM 11-12-2013
Also, if you have agreed to the occasional 5:30 PU for them, then the late fees at 5:31 should not be an issue, since your original closing time was 5:30 from when they started. KWIM? I'd stick to what you described if you can afford it!
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MCC 07:59 AM 11-12-2013
Thank you all. I can afford to lose them, and I can replace them, I have a lot of people on a wait list.

I just have only been at this 15 months, and have termed 3 families, I am feeling like maybe I'm the one who needs to bend. But you all are right, they can figure it out. They have family local, so they should be able to work this out.

I also just really enjoy this little girl, and it's hard to fill toddler spots here, and I can not take anymore infants.

And yes, the 5:30 is the time I closed when we interviewed, so I'm not sure why it's a problem now.
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daycare 08:02 AM 11-12-2013
a family did the same exact thing to me.

time got bumped up by me because the family was originally asking for a 715am drop off but in 3 months did not drop off one time before 8am. They were my first arrival. So we switch it up to 8am drop off, re-did contracts and a week later DCF tells me oh we need to drop off at 715 again. I agreed to this.

I will allow the 715am drop off with a full 24 hour advance notice. No notice, no early drop off. Well it's been about 4 months since all of this changed and only 1 time in this 4 months have they dropped off at 715am.

For the early drop off, maybe you could arrange something like that. I also would not back down on the late fee.

Just about every DC I know of has this rule
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MCC 09:36 AM 11-12-2013
Originally Posted by daycare:
a family did the same exact thing to me.

time got bumped up by me because the family was originally asking for a 715am drop off but in 3 months did not drop off one time before 8am. They were my first arrival. So we switch it up to 8am drop off, re-did contracts and a week later DCF tells me oh we need to drop off at 715 again. I agreed to this.

I will allow the 715am drop off with a full 24 hour advance notice. No notice, no early drop off. Well it's been about 4 months since all of this changed and only 1 time in this 4 months have they dropped off at 715am.

For the early drop off, maybe you could arrange something like that. I also would not back down on the late fee.

Just about every DC I know of has this rule
Gah. What is with these people. I had a another family doing an early drop off with 24 hours notice, and it ended with me having a lot of frustration and resentment toward that family. I DO NOT want to get up before my child is awake for one child to be here.

They also dropped of new baby sister and said, "oh, she hasn't taken a bottle from anyone yet, only breast, have a nice day!" It's been a long day, and it's only noon.
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Margarete 10:07 AM 11-12-2013
Originally Posted by MCC:
Thank you all. I can afford to lose them, and I can replace them, I have a lot of people on a wait list.

I just have only been at this 15 months, and have termed 3 families, I am feeling like maybe I'm the one who needs to bend. But you all are right, they can figure it out. They have family local, so they should be able to work this out.

I also just really enjoy this little girl, and it's hard to fill toddler spots here, and I can not take anymore infants.

And yes, the 5:30 is the time I closed when we interviewed, so I'm not sure why it's a problem now.
If they have family local it should be easy to get one of them to pick up at 5:30 on the occasional time they need to work later... then they won't have to rush back. If they need after 5:30 regularly it seems pretty clear that you don't want to do that... You are already staying open 15 minutes later for them with 5:15 as your 'close' time. It's not about the late fee's it's about being done at 5:30
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Shell 10:07 AM 11-12-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Bottom line though this comes down to money.

You either stand your ground because the time with your family is important or you cave because the money from this family is more important....kwim?



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MCC 02:58 PM 11-12-2013
Welp, It sounds like they're terming.

DCM and I had a heart to heart, she just kept saying how flexible they are and how that's their personality, and that's what they pride themselves on. How they don't anticipate being here after 5:30, but the late fee made them upset, and "riled up". They took the late fee personally, and even asked if I had changed it just for them.

I explained that it wasn't personal, I changed the late fee b/c of another family (who has been termed) who was continually taking advantage of the grace period. She relaxed (started crying) and seemed relieved. I'm not sure why she took this personally...but whatever.

After that, she agreed to sign the new contract. I went ahead and let her know that I am going to be changing my rate in Jan. I had told them this in the interview in Aug, so this wasn't a surprise. And I told them I was no longer offering 10 free vacation days, b/c, honestly, I'm going broke over it. That's when the arms crossed. She took the contract home, and said she needed to talk to hubby about it. She did not look happy as she was leaving.

This is the second time in the past month that I have stood my ground with a family, and the second time that they have termed over it. I'm feeling a little discouraged, and almost broken...
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Blackcat31 03:09 PM 11-12-2013
Originally Posted by MCC:

This is the second time in the past month that I have stood my ground with a family, and the second time that they have termed over it. I'm feeling a little discouraged, and almost broken...
Oh hun, I most certainly wouldn't take that as a bad thing ^^^

Turn it around and what that says is as long as you do "special" families will stay.

That is NOT cool.

They should stay because they value and respect you.

When you tell families no that aren't used to being told no, they leave because they are so used to getting their way.

I'm sorry but I won't compromise my personal values, work ethic or morals for anyone.

You should be proud that you stood your ground and so what if they left..... you still taught them a valuable lesson....NOT everyone is going to cater to them.

Some people value respect and consideration MORE than they value a paycheck and in my opinion that is something you should be proud of.


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daycare 03:12 PM 11-12-2013
Originally Posted by MCC:
Welp, It sounds like they're terming.

DCM and I had a heart to heart, she just kept saying how flexible they are and how that's their personality, and that's what they pride themselves on. How they don't anticipate being here after 5:30, but the late fee made them upset, and "riled up". They took the late fee personally, and even asked if I had changed it just for them.

I explained that it wasn't personal, I changed the late fee b/c of another family (who has been termed) who was continually taking advantage of the grace period. She relaxed (started crying) and seemed relieved. I'm not sure why she took this personally...but whatever.

After that, she agreed to sign the new contract. I went ahead and let her know that I am going to be changing my rate in Jan. I had told them this in the interview in Aug, so this wasn't a surprise. And I told them I was no longer offering 10 free vacation days, b/c, honestly, I'm going broke over it. That's when the arms crossed. She took the contract home, and said she needed to talk to hubby about it. She did not look happy as she was leaving.

This is the second time in the past month that I have stood my ground with a family, and the second time that they have termed over it. I'm feeling a little discouraged, and almost broken...
dont feel bad...you will never make everyone happy.

BUT I will say this. If you don't start off with enforcing rules from day 1, then they will act like 2year old child when you tell them that they have to follow the rules.

I had to learn this the hard way. So from now on, I follow my rules to the book 100% of the time. If it says _____________policy, then I enforce it no matter your reason why.

I will however, let them slide one time with a warring, but make them very aware that if it happens again, I will enforce the late fee and etc.

It sounds like this family just wanted to have things their way, well this ain't burger king. Gosh I hate that I know that saying......lol

You may have dodged a bullet, especially being that they are so new and really trying to negotiate your rules.
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MCC 04:07 PM 11-12-2013
Thank you both. You are, as always, right. It is just hard to feel like I'm weeding so many people out.

Now that I've had a minute to think about it...I must share..

During the conversation she said that my contract seems so inflexible....um.....

Thanks so much for the advice/support. I really hope they don't term, but I hope they do understand me contract is not up for negotiations.
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daycare 04:18 PM 11-12-2013
it is hard to NOT want to be a little more flexible at times so that you can keep that family there. But in the end you will resent them and anger yourself for continuing to make all these exceptions. I used to be notorious for doing that.

Once I stopped thanks to the help of BC I found myself much happier doing DC and much better at explaining all of my daycare policies.
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Blackcat31 04:40 PM 11-12-2013
Originally Posted by daycare:
it is hard to NOT want to be a little more flexible at times so that you can keep that family there. But in the end you will resent them and anger yourself for continuing to make all these exceptions. I used to be notorious for doing that.

Once I stopped thanks to the help of BC I found myself much happier doing DC and much better at explaining all of my daycare policies.
to you!

I know at times I come across as cold or uncaring but nothing could be further from the truth. I care. I care a lot.

I care enough to help parents understand what it means to be a part of a group setting, I care enough to help parents see the harm they can do to their children by not working with their providers. I care enough to try and help other providers see that this job can be easy and enjoyable and that you don't have to be a doormat to entice and keep clients.

This is a very respectable and important job and I care enough to make sure I always keep my financial needs and the emotional stability of myself and the other kids (and parents) as separate issues.

Do I need money? Yes. We all do but that doesn't mean we have to do something that we can't physically, emotionally or legally.

We are SELF employed child care providers. We don't work for anyone other than ourselves. I DO take the requests from parents and their wishes as to how their child is raised into consideration but NEVER will one families wishes/beliefs be allowed to be MORE important than the group as a whole or my own family.

I provide a service. One that comes with emotions, attachments and feelings but that still doesn't mean the business side of this is negotiable.

If I can help a parent out with something that truly doesn't ask more of me than I am willing to give, I will gladly do so.

I've provided free care.
I've waived a late fee or charged less than normal
I've stayed late
I've opened early
I've given treats for nothing
I've done "special"

I HAVE done those things before and I will probably continue to do them. Not because a parent expects it but because I WANT to. But only if it really and truly works for me.

People shouldn't have to lose something in order to do something....kwim?
You shouldn't have to lose pay to be a professional
You shouldn't have to lose time with your family to give it to someone else's
You shouldn't have to feel guilty for not doing something that should be done by a parent
You shouldn't have to bend YOUR rules just to keep a family
You shouldn't have to say ok, when it's not.

This IS a tough job and sadly most providers don't make it.

One thing I do know is the ones who do make it are the ones who realize early on that every parent thinks they are "special" in their own way and you don't have to actually do all that special....you just have to figure out a way to communicate to those families that you care about them and want to build a good relationship but a good relationship goes TWO ways and a good relationship doesn't mean you (the provider) do all the giving while the parent reaps the rewards.

(Stepping down off my soapbox now )
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Shell 04:58 PM 11-12-2013
Originally Posted by daycare:
it is hard to NOT want to be a little more flexible at times so that you can keep that family there. But in the end you will resent them and anger yourself for continuing to make all these exceptions. I used to be notorious for doing that.
This was me until I found this forum, got enraged at all the "special" I was giving, and finally put my foot down.

Once I stopped thanks to the help of BC I found myself much happier doing DC and much better at explaining all of my daycare policies.
There are many others that have offered excellent advice, but BC is definitely one of the best
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daycare 07:30 PM 11-12-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
to you!

I know at times I come across as cold or uncaring but nothing could be further from the truth. I care. I care a lot.

I care enough to help parents understand what it means to be a part of a group setting, I care enough to help parents see the harm they can do to their children by not working with their providers. I care enough to try and help other providers see that this job can be easy and enjoyable and that you don't have to be a doormat to entice and keep clients.

This is a very respectable and important job and I care enough to make sure I always keep my financial needs and the emotional stability of myself and the other kids (and parents) as separate issues.

Do I need money? Yes. We all do but that doesn't mean we have to do something that we can't physically, emotionally or legally.

We are SELF employed child care providers. We don't work for anyone other than ourselves. I DO take the requests from parents and their wishes as to how their child is raised into consideration but NEVER will one families wishes/beliefs be allowed to be MORE important than the group as a whole or my own family.

I provide a service. One that comes with emotions, attachments and feelings but that still doesn't mean the business side of this is negotiable.

If I can help a parent out with something that truly doesn't ask more of me than I am willing to give, I will gladly do so.

I've provided free care.
I've waived a late fee or charged less than normal
I've stayed late
I've opened early
I've given treats for nothing
I've done "special"

I HAVE done those things before and I will probably continue to do them. Not because a parent expects it but because I WANT to. But only if it really and truly works for me.

People shouldn't have to lose something in order to do something....kwim?
You shouldn't have to lose pay to be a professional
You shouldn't have to lose time with your family to give it to someone else's
You shouldn't have to feel guilty for not doing something that should be done by a parent
You shouldn't have to bend YOUR rules just to keep a family
You shouldn't have to say ok, when it's not.

This IS a tough job and sadly most providers don't make it.

One thing I do know is the ones who do make it are the ones who realize early on that every parent thinks they are "special" in their own way and you don't have to actually do all that special....you just have to figure out a way to communicate to those families that you care about them and want to build a good relationship but a good relationship goes TWO ways and a good relationship doesn't mean you (the provider) do all the giving while the parent reaps the rewards.

(Stepping down off my soapbox now )
BC....... this was an awesome post. I read this to my husband and assts. They all could not agree more.

BUT never have I ever thought that you were being cold or uncaring. You are very straight forward and SAY what needs to be SAID. There has never been a time that I ever thought that you were not being sensitive to my feelings about my post.

like you said, this business involves our emotions and it's hard to learn to be able to put them aside and always see things from a business perspective.

your words of wisdom have really benefit a lot of us. You have helped me find my strength aka back bone and find confidence within. I work great with the kids, I am fully confident there, but when it comes to parents, well that's a whole different story.

Thank you for being an important member of this site..
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MCC 07:35 PM 11-12-2013
Originally Posted by daycare:
BC....... this was an awesome post. I read this to my husband and assts. They all could not agree more.

BUT never have I ever thought that you were being cold or uncaring. You are very straight forward and SAY what needs to be SAID. There has never been a time that I ever thought that you were not being sensitive to my feelings about my post.

like you said, this business involves our emotions and it's hard to learn to be able to put them aside and always see things from a business perspective.

your words of wisdom have really benefit a lot of us. You have helped me find my strength aka back bone and find confidence within. I work great with the kids, I am fully confident there, but when it comes to parents, well that's a whole different story.

Thank you for being an important member of this site..
I second all of this. I also have never fealt that you were being cold in any way. I can not tell you how many times I have googled a question and a response from you on this site pops up. You are an one amazing lady, and I have learned so much from you over the past year.

Thank you so much for taking your time to write out that response, and always taking your time with me in the past to figure out situations.
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TwinKristi 08:25 PM 11-12-2013
It's hard to say... I mean I'm pretty flexible and don't really charge late fees, even though I should. I'm down to 2 families after next month and I really can't afford to lose another not that I'm worried about losing them but it would be really impossible for me to stay open otherwise. I am pretty flexible with drop offs and pickups and schedule changes but that's not what I pride myself on or anything. It's just what's developed with the families I have right now based on their need. The other family who's leaving is going to a preschool so they're even less flexible with their policies. It's not like my policies are so flexible people are coming to me for that. It's based on a need basis. I think with future clients I will be more firm. I already am getting firm on extra time with my hourly client. I also think I may charge a monthly tuition rather than a daily rate and an annual registration fee in 2014. Offer a discount based on 5 days a week clients and if they pay in full monthly. Charge a late fee it a payment is late, etc. I've been far too nice for too long. I have never charged a late fee either even though I've had 2 families leave me hanging a couple times. I should have bugged more because she honestly forgot and came over after work (DCD picks up) and the other was just forgetful once but I'm sure if I said "well there's a $X late payment few if it's not here by 6pm" than I would have had my payment that day! LOL instead she paid me the next day... But forgot... And forgot the next day again! Finally remembered the 3rd day. But technically it was for a drop-in day mid month and she's prepaid for the month so I felt rude. Anyway, I'm getting better.
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