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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>MN Union-Anyone Familiar
jojosmommy 09:53 AM 04-12-2011
Mn is attempting to start a union of daycare professionals and this company/group has been going around asking people to sign these cards "for more information" on things like getting better health care, getting better state reimbursement for assistance, etc. Once people sign these cards they are being placed in the union-well in the list of people supporting the union until a union can actually be formed (the card is actually a union sign up card but is NOT being represented as such) Many providers from our area have had to write to this company/group and ask for their card back b/c they were not aware this was what they were signing up for. Apparently they can get their name off the list of supporters by writing to them.

We have been told that if you accept child care assistance or are on the food program you will AUTOMATICALLY be signed up for the union AND monthly union dues will AUTOMATICALLY be taken from either your food program pmt or your assistance payment.

So here are my questions:
Is anyone familiar with this practice or had this happen in your state?

Is that legal?

Doesn't that promote people not being on the food program and not allowing assistance clients (thus creating even more shortage for those families looking for care)?

Anyone have any clear publicized info from their own unions?

Anyone a union member (daycare only please) and have actually had the union get them things like better health care, etc. ???? Seems like a bunch of bogus to me but maybe someone can shed some light on this.
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MsMe 10:00 AM 04-12-2011
Iowa did this a few years ago. I don't know that it was ONLY daycare providers I think it also included teachers too. I was interested bc I am not married and I have no health ins. they were a few years out from getting anything like that so i stopped paying attention after awhile. The way we get paid from the state (online timecards) changed and I think (?) they had something to do with it.

My point is while I don't know much about it maybe you could look into what Iowa did and see if it is kinds teh same thing?
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MN Day Mom 10:12 AM 04-12-2011
Where are you getting this information from? I can't believe that anyone could be forced in to the union??
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DCMom 10:17 AM 04-12-2011
I am in Minnesota. If you do not want to be a member of a union, do not fill out the card. The unions are using the cards for card check~in place of your signature on petitions, etc. When I signed mine I didn't realize what they were up to, I thought I was signing up for more information as you said. Then I started getting newsletters and announcements for union meeting and rallys. When I call and asked why, they told me because I was a union member. When I asked for my anniversary date, the date they told me as about the time the rep was coming door to door with the cards. I have since requested my card back in writing (which you must do; you can't just request it over the phone). There is a big push in MN right now to sign up daycare providers because of early childhood legislation that is part of the education bill up for vote in the legislature (they may have voted on it already, not sure).

As far as I know, you will not automatically be part of the union if you get child assistance payments, but if you are a union member I believe that is how they will deduct your dues. I don't have any state aid kids, so I can''t answer that for certain. I never heard anything about deductions from food program reimbursements; I am a member of the food program and I have never had anything deducted even though I am apparently a union member of not one, but two unions. AFSCME and SEIU...not sure how that happened because I only signed one card and nobody at either organization seems to be able to answer that question for me, so I requested my sign up documents from both.

I can't answer whether or not it is legal; at the very least it's shady. I just have no interest in being part of a union. Just my opinion.
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thecrazyisout 10:21 AM 04-12-2011
UGH, Unions.....I get so turned off by the whole thought of this.......I was a part of a union a while back and it was a crock...I find it offensive that I HAD to pay dues and HAD to be part of something that I felt I could be better off with out....Anyways, that's my two cents......
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SimpleMom 10:23 AM 04-12-2011
I'm not sure either, but I DID sign a card for supporting cheaper health insurance--NOT a union member I'll be writing to get my card back for sure. I specifically ASKED if this was for union membership and she said "no", we don't have a union in my state.
uggh...good to know what it's really about
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thecrazyisout 10:26 AM 04-12-2011
Originally Posted by SimpleMom:
I'm not sure either, but I DID sign a card for supporting cheaper health insurance--NOT a union member I'll be writing to get my card back for sure. I specifically ASKED if this was for union membership and she said "no", we don't have a union in my state.
uggh...good to know what it's really about
This is exactly why I have such a terrible taste in my mouth when it comes to this subject....I have somewhat of a labor relations background, and too many times did I see things like this....yes, if we could only lower health care insurance, but it is bound to keep going up..... I hope you get your card back!!!
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PitterPatter 10:41 AM 04-12-2011
Originally Posted by jojosmommy:
Mn is attempting to start a union of daycare professionals and this company/group has been going around asking people to sign these cards "for more information" on things like getting better health care, getting better state reimbursement for assistance, etc. Once people sign these cards they are being placed in the union-well in the list of people supporting the union until a union can actually be formed (the card is actually a union sign up card but is NOT being represented as such) Many providers from our area have had to write to this company/group and ask for their card back b/c they were not aware this was what they were signing up for. Apparently they can get their name off the list of supporters by writing to them.

We have been told that if you accept child care assistance or are on the food program you will AUTOMATICALLY be signed up for the union AND monthly union dues will AUTOMATICALLY be taken from either your food program pmt or your assistance payment.

So here are my questions:
Is anyone familiar with this practice or had this happen in your state?

Is that legal?

Doesn't that promote people not being on the food program and not allowing assistance clients (thus creating even more shortage for those families looking for care)?

Anyone have any clear publicized info from their own unions?

Anyone a union member (daycare only please) and have actually had the union get them things like better health care, etc. ???? Seems like a bunch of bogus to me but maybe someone can shed some light on this.
OH MY!! I haven't heard of anything like that here. Of course that BS of me having to provide the backup care for any holidays I am closed is new to me too. I think the state can be sneaky!

If I have to pay dues to a union I was forced to join that will be my final straw! I will have to leave the state program just out of lack of respect for the providers. I have been thinking about that already.
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jojosmommy 10:45 AM 04-12-2011
Originally Posted by Tygerluv:
OH MY!! I haven't heard of anything like that here. Of course that BS of me having to provide the backup care for any holidays I am closed is new to me too. I think the state can be sneaky!

If I have to pay dues to a union I was forced to join that will be my final straw! I will have to leave the state program just out of lack of respect for the providers. I have been thinking about that already.
Are you in MN?
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Blackcat31 10:46 AM 04-12-2011
Originally Posted by jojosmommy:
Mn is attempting to start a union of daycare professionals and this company/group has been going around asking people to sign these cards "for more information" on things like getting better health care, getting better state reimbursement for assistance, etc. Once people sign these cards they are being placed in the union-well in the list of people supporting the union until a union can actually be formed (the card is actually a union sign up card but is NOT being represented as such) Many providers from our area have had to write to this company/group and ask for their card back b/c they were not aware this was what they were signing up for. Apparently they can get their name off the list of supporters by writing to them.

We have been told that if you accept child care assistance or are on the food program you will AUTOMATICALLY be signed up for the union AND monthly union dues will AUTOMATICALLY be taken from either your food program pmt or your assistance payment.

So here are my questions:
Is anyone familiar with this practice or had this happen in your state?

Is that legal?

Doesn't that promote people not being on the food program and not allowing assistance clients (thus creating even more shortage for those families looking for care)?

Anyone have any clear publicized info from their own unions?

Anyone a union member (daycare only please) and have actually had the union get them things like better health care, etc. ???? Seems like a bunch of bogus to me but maybe someone can shed some light on this.
Are you referring to AFSCME or Child Care Providers Together? I got a postcard telling me about a local meeting coming up and just this morning I got to work and found a provider friend called on the union's behalf and did one of those recorded calls inviting every provider in the area to a meeting tonight at our local union hall. I really didn't plan on attending ...too busy but I will ask my friend what the deal is and any other info I can get outta her...
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marniewon 10:49 AM 04-12-2011
Welcome to MI. Ha ha. Yes, they can force you to be part of the union if you accept state-paid clients. No, it is not legal. Do whatever you need to do now to get this union dissolved. Here in MI a bunch of dcp's got together and got a lawyer to fight our forced union. They promised all sorts of things too - better pay, better/cheaper health insurance blah blah blah and did NOTHING to help MI providers - even the ones forced to pay in to the union.
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jojosmommy 10:50 AM 04-12-2011
Originally Posted by DCMom:

I can't answer whether or not it is legal; at the very least it's shady. I just have no interest in being part of a union. Just my opinion.
Seems like if they represented themselves as the union when they came in your house more people would have turned them away from the get go but the lady that came to my door NEVER said anything about the union. I had already heard about this misrepresenting themselves so I let the lady "blablabla" for about 15 minutes then told her NO! but she never actually came out and said with her own words that was what she was trying to do. Every other daycare lady who Ive talked to said they were TRICKED into signing up- they either didnt know what actually it was or the people outright lied- and most have said they came during lunch- a known busy time when daycare people are already too distracted to focus.

I just want to know the legal part of it. Is it even legal to FORCE people on CCA and the food program to be part of the union and how are they going to track who's dues came out from CCA and not take it again from the food program pmts or vice versa.
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jojosmommy 10:52 AM 04-12-2011
Originally Posted by marniewon:
Welcome to MI. Ha ha. Yes, they can force you to be part of the union if you accept state-paid clients. No, it is not legal. Do whatever you need to do now to get this union dissolved. Here in MI a bunch of dcp's got together and got a lawyer to fight our forced union. They promised all sorts of things too - better pay, better/cheaper health insurance blah blah blah and did NOTHING to help MI providers - even the ones forced to pay in to the union.
I am already UNFORTUNATELY part of the teachers union and lose $80 a month to union dues. I work PT for the district and still have to pay the $80. Our union hasnt done 1 thing for us so I am already aware of the ridiculousness of their promises. I just hope I don't have to pay 2x for the union to do nothing for me.
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GretasLittleFriends 11:32 AM 04-12-2011
https://www.daycare.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13224

I started this thread last spring. It's horrible isn't it??

I wrote a letter to Gov. Dayton. Feel free to use it to fit your needs!!

Gov. Mark Dayton
Office of the Governor
130 State Capitol
75 Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Blvd.
St. Paul, MN 55155

RE: Unionizing Child Care

Dear Governor Dayton,

My name is Greta (Last Name). I am a licensed child care provider in (X) County. I am writing this letter to inform you that I do not want anything to do with the Union or becoming unionized. I also do not want to be forced to become unionized because I have county/state assistance children in my care now, in April 2011, or anytime in the future.

Union representatives have been coming to our homes, often times at inconvenient hours (such as lunch time, while trying to serve 6 or more children lunch) and trying to get us to sign signature cards. When the AFSCME representative was here at my home he did not provide much information and had no literature to leave with me. He did quickly mention a website once, but said for more information I could write my name and address on a card and sign it and he would get me the information. I did not complete or sign the card because something didn't seem quite right. Now that I know that was a union signature card I am very glad I did not sign it. He never told me it was a "signature card". I know other providers that did want more information and are now upset because they are not in support of becoming unionized either, especially under false pretenses.

One of the things that bothers me about this idea of unionizing is that family child care providers are independent contractors. I do not understand how independent contractors can be unionized. Union members can and do go on strike. As independent business persons, daycare providers cannot do this, it is considered extortion. When independent businesses join together and begin price fixing and market coercion and doing things like striking, they can end up doing prison time because it's against federal law. It falls under the RICO Act because it is price fixing/gouging or monopolistic control of the marketplace, and is punishable by $20k in fines and up to 25 years in prison per count.

Thank you for taking the time to read my letter. I ask that you please take into consideration that I do not want to be unionized and neither do many providers like me.

Sincerely,


Greta (Last Name)
Address
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Missani 11:33 AM 04-12-2011
I fell into the same trap! I signed the card for "more information." I especially hate their phone calls. They call during naptime, and if you happen to not pick it up and listen for long enough, they will call you back every 5-10 minutes until you do! That's reason enough not to do it, if you ask me!!!! The problem is that funding is funding, and there isn't enough of it. They can't get cheaper rates or more pay for us...that's why we are self employed. I don't know why any self employed person would want to have a union to tell them how they can make their own money or how they have to run their business. There is a lot of misrepresentation going on, and it is really annoying. I want nothing to do with these people because of their lies!
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DCMom 11:42 AM 04-12-2011
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Are you referring to AFSCME or Child Care Providers Together? I got a postcard telling me about a local meeting coming up and just this morning I got to work and found a provider friend called on the union's behalf and did one of those recorded calls inviting every provider in the area to a meeting tonight at our local union hall. I really didn't plan on attending ...too busy but I will ask my friend what the deal is and any other info I can get outta her...
Child Care Providers Together is affiliated with AFSCME; they are listed on the national website.
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GretasLittleFriends 11:45 AM 04-12-2011
Originally Posted by Missani:
I fell into the same trap! I signed the card for "more information." I especially hate their phone calls. They call during naptime, and if you happen to not pick it up and listen for long enough, they will call you back every 5-10 minutes until you do! That's reason enough not to do it, if you ask me!!!! The problem is that funding is funding, and there isn't enough of it. They can't get cheaper rates or more pay for us...that's why we are self employed. I don't know why any self employed person would want to have a union to tell them how they can make their own money or how they have to run their business. There is a lot of misrepresentation going on, and it is really annoying. I want nothing to do with these people because of their lies!
I have been told there is a way to get your card back. One of the providers in my area is working VERY hard trying to prevent the union taking over our home businesses. Here is a template she wrote. You would NEED to get it notarized, then mail it into the governors office.

Governor Dayton (or governor of your state),

My name is . I am a daycare provider in County and I do not want anything to do with the union and do not want to become unionized. I do not want to be forced into being unionized because I accept children that are on county assistance either. The union representatives are sneaky and had some of us sign cards about getting information on what the union may have to offer, not agreeing to become unionized.

This is to notify you that I demand my card back that I signed with the union. I do not want to be included in their numbers of people wanting union representation.

Sincerely,

Your Name
Address
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Missani 11:55 AM 04-12-2011
Originally Posted by GretasLittleFriends:
I have been told there is a way to get your card back. One of the providers in my area is working VERY hard trying to prevent the union taking over our home businesses. Here is a template she wrote. You would NEED to get it notarized, then mail it into the governors office.

Governor Dayton (or governor of your state),

My name is . I am a daycare provider in County and I do not want anything to do with the union and do not want to become unionized. I do not want to be forced into being unionized because I accept children that are on county assistance either. The union representatives are sneaky and had some of us sign cards about getting information on what the union may have to offer, not agreeing to become unionized.

This is to notify you that I demand my card back that I signed with the union. I do not want to be included in their numbers of people wanting union representation.

Sincerely,

Your Name
Address
Thank you, Greta! I will definitely be doing this!
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PitterPatter 11:58 AM 04-12-2011
Originally Posted by jojosmommy:
Are you in MN?
No I'm just saying if it happened here in WV
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jen 12:21 PM 04-12-2011
I'm in MN too...they came to my door...I was NOT happy, I was super busy, kids getting off, others waking up from nap. Anyway...mine did say she was representing the Union but was not easily persuaded that I did not want anything to do with it.

I finally told her when they make a union for business owners, try me again and shut the door.
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daysofelijah 02:38 PM 04-12-2011
I had a union rep. come knocking at my door a couple weeks ago. I told her no thank you I wasn't interested and sent her on her way. I'm only doing licensed daycare until this fall so not too concerned. I would have no desire to be part of a union though.
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Michael 02:59 PM 04-12-2011
Originally Posted by DCMom:
I am in Minnesota. If you do not want to be a member of a union, do not fill out the card. The unions are using the cards for card check~in place of your signature on petitions, etc. When I signed mine I didn't realize what they were up to, I thought I was signing up for more information as you said. Then I started getting newsletters and announcements for union meeting and rallys. When I call and asked why, they told me because I was a union member. When I asked for my anniversary date, the date they told me as about the time the rep was coming door to door with the cards. I have since requested my card back in writing (which you must do; you can't just request it over the phone). There is a big push in MN right now to sign up daycare providers because of early childhood legislation that is part of the education bill up for vote in the legislature (they may have voted on it already, not sure).

As far as I know, you will not automatically be part of the union if you get child assistance payments, but if you are a union member I believe that is how they will deduct your dues. I don't have any state aid kids, so I can''t answer that for certain. I never heard anything about deductions from food program reimbursements; I am a member of the food program and I have never had anything deducted even though I am apparently a union member of not one, but two unions. AFSCME and SEIU...not sure how that happened because I only signed one card and nobody at either organization seems to be able to answer that question for me, so I requested my sign up documents from both.

I can't answer whether or not it is legal; at the very least it's shady. I just have no interest in being part of a union. Just my opinion.
You are correct. They are probably trying to get enough signatures to create a new state ballot measure.
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Lucy 06:40 PM 04-12-2011
OMG, don't get me started on this! My state has a mandatory union as well. They take out $25 per child/ per month if the child is state paid. I have friends of our family who will bring their 2 kids occasionally (maybe 5 days out of an entire year), but when I get the check for them, $50 is taken out. ($25 each). The state only pays $30 a day per child, so my $60 check turns into $10. When this first happened, I had to tell the mom that she would have to pay the $50. Which means if her kids come only ONE day in a month, it costs her $50. Once they came on the 31st of one month, and the 1st of the next month -- two consecutive days. But it cost her $100, because the state took out the $25/kid ($50 total) for EACH month. Anyway, it's ridiculous. I did a lot of checking on this. Called every place I could think of from my licensor to the State Capital, and found out there was nothing I could do about it. It angers me and it really sucks.
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thecrazyisout 07:02 PM 04-14-2011
So, please clarify...they want to unionize providers so I can collectively bargain with myself?? I am the only employee of my business. Do I complain to myself that I don't provide myself medical insurance (go through husband work) or equally contribute to match my own retirement fund??? This is so annoying I don't even know how this is even possible! I will be writing the governer for sure!
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daysofelijah 04:56 AM 04-15-2011
Here is a site with some more info on what you can do, put together by some MN childcare providers against the union:

http://www.childcareunioninfo.com/index.html
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Zoe 06:54 AM 04-15-2011
I'm in MN and haven't had anyone come to my door yet. When did they do this?

I am completely against a union. I am self-employed and am my own boss. I already have to comply with the state's rules, why would I want to further restrict myself in my OWN business?

I'll be keeping an eye out for sure! Thanks for bringing this up gals!
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Unregistered 07:39 AM 04-15-2011
They have already been coming for a couple months now. I had heard about it but nobody stopped until just a few weeks ago.

Does anyone know do they get your info from the licensing agency? I dont have ads that list my address or full name but I am sure they could find me if they knew I was licensed to do care.
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daysofelijah 09:11 AM 04-15-2011
All your information is available online at the MN DHS if you are licensed.

http://www.dhs.state.mn.us/main/idcp...ame=id_017167#
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Unregistered 07:16 PM 09-14-2011
I came across this thread and even though it is an old one I wanted to share some information with you. So far, no unions have been able to touch food program money but they have taken a percentage or flat fee out of subsidy checks, even from providers who are not members and do not want union representation. I am part of a group of providers who is working to stop this from happening after researching what the unions have done in other states. We just got word from Governor Dayton today that he will not be using those cards to force a union on us but will most likely be allowing us a secret ballot vote through a state labor board. We have compiled lots of information and started a website with information on how much dues are in other states and which states have unionized and even have links to the contracts they have received.

www.childcareunioninfo.com

We also started a facebook page "childcare providers who are happy to be union free".

If you like that page you will get updates on when a vote is taking place and any other updates we have. We have had a ton of media coverage lately including the front page of the star tribune and have links to all those stories on both the website and the facebook page. Right now it's important that those of us who do not want union representation to join together to inform all the other providers out there of the upcoming vote and why they should vote no.

Jennifer Parrish
childcareunioninfo@gmail.com
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