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Old 08-25-2015, 01:30 PM
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Default only 5-6 hours of sleep

I have a dcf that has been with me for about 3.5 years. I am on their second child, who has been with me for about 1.5 years.

child is 3 years old.
From day one I knew that sleep was going to be an issue, it was with their sibling too. BUt this one is even worse than the other and the sleep issues are getting worse

according to what the parents are telling me is that the child is NOT sleeping at home. they lay down at 930pm for the reason that dcd does not get home from work until 8pm and it is in their culture that they must eat as a family.

child lays down at 930, parents claim that child is not going to bed until 1 or 2am and is back at my house daily by 8am.

when the child is here, they are mean and nasty. child has always been this way. in fact in the 3 years that i have known this child i have maybe seen them smile 2 times. the child will rub eyes, yawn a million times, look like they are about to pass out, but does not sleep here either. I have tried all sorts of things like laying down as soon as they arrive, laying down when teh eye rubbing and yawing gets so excessive, but nothing works. the child will not sleep here either.

the child is over the top brilliant. i dont know how they are learning here with the little amount of sleep the child gets. or how they are keeping up with us.

dck does stimulate themselves every second of the day by picking at lip, by rubbing the end of their shirt constantly, or twisting hair.

the issues are getting worse, not better. the child is just not sleeping. the parents beg me for help, but they don't ever follow through with anything. the parents are much older parents, almost in their 60s.

i have never seen this before. Has anyone ever dealt with this? I used to think it was behavior, but now I am wondering if there is something medically wrong?
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Old 08-25-2015, 02:04 PM
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I think this child should be evaluated by a doctor. He may have a medical issue, or he may be on the edge of the spectrum.

That is quite a-typical, and I'd be hesitant to blame it on parenting alone. I'd seek medical advice.
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Old 08-25-2015, 02:06 PM
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I think this child should be evaluated by a doctor. He may have a medical issue, or he may be on the edge of the spectrum.

That is quite a-typical, and I'd be hesitant to blame it on parenting alone. I'd seek medical advice.
thanks for the reply. yeah i used to think it was because the parents are older and it's very obvious they can't keep up with their kids. the kids rule the roost and run circles around them daily.

I do agree that I think it's a medical issue. Guess i will have to talk to dcm again about going to the doc again.
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Old 08-25-2015, 02:12 PM
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thanks for the reply. yeah i used to think it was because the parents are older and it's very obvious they can't keep up with their kids. the kids rule the roost and run circles around them daily.

I do agree that I think it's a medical issue. Guess i will have to talk to dcm again about going to the doc again.
and again, and again.

If you're so inclined, offer to go with her. Sometimes docs just won't listen, and parents need to be almost aggressive to get help. If these parents are ESL, they may be shy about pushing things, or maybe their culture wouldn't allow it. So, if you can be an advocate, great. If not, help them with some backbone.

I hate that we are so much a part of these kid's lives, but we can't talk to docs about things. I understand why, but it's frustrating sometimes.
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Old 08-25-2015, 02:18 PM
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and again, and again.

If you're so inclined, offer to go with her. Sometimes docs just won't listen, and parents need to be almost aggressive to get help. If these parents are ESL, they may be shy about pushing things, or maybe their culture wouldn't allow it. So, if you can be an advocate, great. If not, help them with some backbone.

I hate that we are so much a part of these kid's lives, but we can't talk to docs about things. I understand why, but it's frustrating sometimes.
I feel horrible for the child. the child's basic needs are not being met. the parents are trying, but may need another push.

the child can be very nice at times, but is like a bomb waiting to go off. they are never physical with anyone, but mean tones and words are used daily.

I hope I can help. they are ESL, but they have better English than me.
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Old 08-25-2015, 02:55 PM
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One of my dck was told to use the liquid melatonin. ...
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Old 08-25-2015, 02:56 PM
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One of my dck was told to use the liquid melatonin. ...
I would have suggested that, but I think based on some of the other behaviors, a doctor should see him first.
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Old 08-25-2015, 02:57 PM
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I would have suggested that, but I think based on some of the other behaviors, a doctor should see him first.
they tried it and it did not work... I agree, it's time to go to the doc. this has been going on for over a year and I am seeing it getting worse.

It is almost like its a physiological thing at this point.
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Old 08-25-2015, 03:00 PM
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We have a child with the exact same problem except the self sstimulation, Its so bad they fall asleep while eating. We don't know what to do.
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Old 08-25-2015, 03:03 PM
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We have a child with the exact same problem except the self sstimulation, Its so bad they fall asleep while eating. We don't know what to do.
I wish this kid would fall asleep at the table. its like they are fueled on adrenaline and just keep going and going.

earlier this year I used to call for pick up when the child was so tired and would cry becuase of the fatigue. But now the child gets over that phase and I have no reason to send home because they are able to participate, just on the constant verge of passing out and never does...
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Old 08-25-2015, 04:22 PM
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I suggest that you forcefully recommend a childrens' sleep clinic ASAP. This isn't an issue for a pediatrician if the child is only getting 5-6 hours of sleep. Personally, I would consider it an emergency.
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Old 08-25-2015, 04:38 PM
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From day 1 my son never slept more than 5 hours at a time.
Never took an afternoon nap as a toddler or preschooler.
He is 24 now and still has sleep issues/gets very little sleep.
He has never been officially diagnosed but more than likely has Aspergers.
He has a very high IQ
He was an angry child/teen but happy young adult.

I know he has always had sleep issues but we've never figured out why or the root of them. He is currently being screened for a sleep study so we may have some answers but I dont know yet.

I just figured the sleep part was hereditary.
I rarely get more than 5 hours of sleep a night. I hate sleeping..
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Old 08-25-2015, 04:55 PM
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From day 1 my son never slept more than 5 hours at a time.
Never took an afternoon nap as a toddler or preschooler.
He is 24 now and still has sleep issues/gets very little sleep.
He has never been officially diagnosed but more than likely has Aspergers.
He has a very high IQ
He was an angry child/teen but happy young adult.

I know he has always had sleep issues but we've never figured out why or the root of them. He is currently being screened for a sleep study so we may have some answers but I dont know yet.

I just figured the sleep part was hereditary.
I rarely get more than 5 hours of sleep a night. I hate sleeping..
How could anyone NOT love sleep? Are you human? I can't imagine a child sleeping only 5-6 hours when they "require" twice that amount. I mourn sleeping like it was a dead relative! My DCK's who are 3 & 4 can't function without nap-they are cranky by 4PM and their parents tell me that they are nightmares in the evenings when they don't sleep here (I can make 'em lay down, but I can't make 'em sleep).
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Old 08-25-2015, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leigh View Post
How could anyone NOT love sleep? Are you human? I can't imagine a child sleeping only 5-6 hours when they "require" twice that amount. I mourn sleeping like it was a dead relative! My DCK's who are 3 & 4 can't function without nap-they are cranky by 4PM and their parents tell me that they are nightmares in the evenings when they don't sleep here (I can make 'em lay down, but I can't make 'em sleep).
She doesn't like to eat either!

Seriously, BC...two of the best things in life How do you stay so happy and upbeat? It's just not right!
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Old 08-25-2015, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
From day 1 my son never slept more than 5 hours at a time.
Never took an afternoon nap as a toddler or preschooler.
He is 24 now and still has sleep issues/gets very little sleep.
He has never been officially diagnosed but more than likely has Aspergers.
He has a very high IQ
He was an angry child/teen but happy young adult.

I know he has always had sleep issues but we've never figured out why or the root of them. He is currently being screened for a sleep study so we may have some answers but I dont know yet.

I just figured the sleep part was hereditary.
I rarely get more than 5 hours of sleep a night. I hate sleeping..
wow.... do you wish that you would have known earlier that your son had a disorder?

I am wondering if knowing that there is one will make any difference. is there anything that anyone can do to help this child?
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Old 08-25-2015, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leigh View Post
How could anyone NOT love sleep? Are you human? I can't imagine a child sleeping only 5-6 hours when they "require" twice that amount. I mourn sleeping like it was a dead relative! My DCK's who are 3 & 4 can't function without nap-they are cranky by 4PM and their parents tell me that they are nightmares in the evenings when they don't sleep here (I can make 'em lay down, but I can't make 'em sleep).
Quote:
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She doesn't like to eat either!

Seriously, BC...two of the best things in life How do you stay so happy and upbeat? It's just not right!
I dont know.
Seriously, I dont know why I dont sleep, like it or seem to need it
It used to worry me but I'm very healthy, don't smoke, drink alcohol only once in a while and feel good so... ??

I "force" myself to go to bed by midnight (I say force because I don't feel tired but must be) and I get up by 5:00 a.m. naturally. No alarm necessary.

I feel well rested, don't yawn or feel tired at all during the day.

I don't remember ever napping.

The upbeat/happiness? ....... that's just what feels natural.
Life is just cool... Kwim? Everything is interesting. Literally. :


Quote:
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wow.... do you wish that you would have known earlier that your son had a disorder?

I am wondering if knowing that there is one will make any difference. is there anything that anyone can do to help this child?
YES!! I think he couldve gotten more help and felt better about himself. If we'd had some sort of diagnosis... A starting point.
Something other than just making do and surviving from day to day.

Yes I wish we wouldve known early.
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Old 08-25-2015, 05:49 PM
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I dont know.
Seriously, I dont know why I dont sleep, like it or seem to need it
It used to worry me but I'm very healthy, don't smoke, drink alcohol only once in a while and feel good so... ??

I "force" myself to go to bed by midnight (I say force because I don't feel tired but must be) and I get up by 5:00 a.m. naturally. No alarm necessary.

I feel well rested, don't yawn or feel tired at all during the day.

I don't remember ever napping.

The upbeat/happiness? ....... that's just what feels natural.
Life is just cool... Kwim? Everything is interesting. Literally. :




YES!! I think he couldve gotten more help and felt better about himself. If we'd had some sort of diagnosis... A starting point.
Something other than just making do and surviving from day to day.

Yes I wish we wouldve known early.
THANKS BC for your feed back. makes me realize that I do need to press the issue at least one more time. i know the parents feel something is not right. they tell me this all of the time. I always tell them they should talk the their doctor. but when they do, the doctor tells them they are not concerned. doc says everything developmentally about the child is on point so nothing to be concerned about.

I do have video of this child for almost a year. I did a school project on concept development and would video me teaching the class and then write my papers off of it. Every video you see the anger in this childs face. You see then withdrawn and you see them stimulate themselves to no extent. perhaps I should share with the doctor a few of my videos strung together and my observations.

I am feeling bad that I didn't push harder earlier with the parents, but since the brother fought sleep at home too, I didn't think much of it and saw it as a behavioral issue. i think it is way past that at this point.

I hope I can be of some help to this child. you know me. I have to try at least one last time before I throw in the towel.

btw off to the hospital..I am going to be mad if they give me a casting for my foot....oh bloody hell I am mad.....lol opps
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Old 08-25-2015, 05:49 PM
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He has never been officially diagnosed but more than likely has Aspergers.

I know he has always had sleep issues but we've never figured out why or the root of them. He is currently being screened for a sleep study so we may have some answers but I dont know yet.
Many kids with Asperger's have sleep problems so his sleep issues may be part of that syndrome. My son used to have so much trouble falling asleep when he was younger. I lost so many nights of sleep because all he wanted to do at night was talk, talk, talk - especially when he was anxious about something - which was pretty much all the time!! As an adult, he's still very much a night owl and there are many nights when, after talking for hours with him, I have to just tell him I need sleep and we can pick the conversation up again tomorrow.

Daycare, I don't know if any of the tips in this link would help but I thought I'd post it just in case: http://www.aane.org/asperger_resourc..._asperger.html
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Old 08-25-2015, 05:54 PM
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Many kids with Asperger's have sleep problems so his sleep issues may be part of that syndrome. My son used to have so much trouble falling asleep when he was younger. I lost so many nights of sleep because all he wanted to do at night was talk, talk, talk - especially when he was anxious about something - which was pretty much all the time!! As an adult, he's still very much a night owl and there are many nights when, after talking for hours with him, I have to just tell him I need sleep and we can pick the conversation up again tomorrow.

Daycare, I don't know if any of the tips in this link would help but I thought I'd post it just in case: http://www.aane.org/asperger_resourc..._asperger.html
awesome read...thank you so ooooooo much

sorry i had to giggle at this part


Diet

It is recommended that children with sleep problems avoid all caffeine, alcohol, tobacco, high fat food, and monosodium glutamate (MSG). In contrast, food rich in protein may promote better sleep. Large meals within 2-3 hours of bedtime should also be avoided.
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Old 08-25-2015, 05:57 PM
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She doesn't like to eat either!
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Old 08-25-2015, 05:58 PM
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awesome read...thank you so ooooooo much

sorry i had to giggle at this part


Diet

It is recommended that children with sleep problems avoid all caffeine, alcohol, tobacco, high fat food, and monosodium glutamate (MSG). In contrast, food rich in protein may promote better sleep. Large meals within 2-3 hours of bedtime should also be avoided.
Yup; take that beer can and cigarette away from him as soon as he walks in the door!
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Old 08-25-2015, 06:04 PM
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Yes. I am a weird eater too...
Eating completely utilitarian to me and I honestly couldn't care less if I ate the same thing day in and day out for every meal. Its simply an act of survival.

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Yup; take that beer can and cigarette away from him as soon as he walks in the door!
Lol!

Your descriptions of your son are similar to the experiences I've had with mine.
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Old 08-25-2015, 06:11 PM
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THANKS BC for your feed back. makes me realize that I do need to press the issue at least one more time. i know the parents feel something is not right. they tell me this all of the time. I always tell them they should talk the their doctor. but when they do, the doctor tells them they are not concerned. doc says everything developmentally about the child is on point so nothing to be concerned about.

I do have video of this child for almost a year. I did a school project on concept development and would video me teaching the class and then write my papers off of it. Every video you see the anger in this childs face. You see then withdrawn and you see them stimulate themselves to no extent. perhaps I should share with the doctor a few of my videos strung together and my observations.

I am feeling bad that I didn't push harder earlier with the parents, but since the brother fought sleep at home too, I didn't think much of it and saw it as a behavioral issue. i think it is way past that at this point.

I hope I can be of some help to this child. you know me. I have to try at least one last time before I throw in the towel.

btw off to the hospital..I am going to be mad if they give me a casting for my foot....oh bloody hell I am mad.....lol opps
I think the biggest thing was the self esteem. My son suffered from low self esteem because he knew he was "different". ...Add in not really knowing why or how to treat it and what little self esteem left was depleted.

I hope your ankle is okay.
Maybe it's just sprained... instead of broken... That would be better than a cast.
Let us know...
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Old 08-26-2015, 06:17 AM
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Your descriptions of your son are similar to the experiences I've had with mine.
Ditto. Self-esteem has always been a big issue for my son. He's such a good guy - kind, thoughtful, intelligent, great sense of humor.... I wish he could see himself through my eyes. School bullying took such a toll on him that even now at 24, he struggles to see his strengths.
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Old 08-26-2015, 06:25 AM
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THANKS BC for your feed back. makes me realize that I do need to press the issue at least one more time. i know the parents feel something is not right. they tell me this all of the time. I always tell them they should talk the their doctor. but when they do, the doctor tells them they are not concerned. doc says everything developmentally about the child is on point so nothing to be concerned about.
I had a hard time getting my son's pediatrician to see my concerns, too. He just about laughed me out of his office once when I mentioned that I thought my son had AS. I dropped it for a little while but then started to write down all behaviors I was seeing at home. I gave the dr. my list and told him if it wasn't AS, it was something similar. It wasn't until he read through my list that he realized the kid he saw in his office for 30 minutes every 6 months or so wasn't the same kid I was seeing at home. You might want to suggest that these parents write down the behaviors they're seeing at home and if you're willing, you could also provide a list of things you see at dc. It might help the dr. understand that he isn't seeing the whole picture during the short office visits he has with this boy. Also, if you wouldn't mind sharing that video you have, it might give the dr a lot of insight as to what you're all seeing that he isn't.
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