Daycare.com Forum Daycare Management Software

Go Back   Daycare.com Forum > Main Category > Daycare Center and Family Home Forum

Daycare Center and Family Home Forum Daycare Center and Family Home owners, Directors, Operators and Assistants should post and ask questions here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #101  
Old 07-16-2015, 05:35 PM
daycare's Avatar
daycare daycare is offline
Advanced Daycare.com Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Mars
Posts: 16,021
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nannyde View Post
I can't imagine the financial loss of what could be, a full stock of food you have purchased for the daycare and family. If I had to rid my current stock of peanuts and trace it would leave me with very little food. An average provider couldn't afford that.

I can't imagine having to maintain the peanut free 24/7. You couldn't have peanut products even on your days off in your home.

I don't agree with requiring home providers to make this accommodation. I don't agree because it affects the home during non business hours. It's so labor intensive and the stakes are so high if you, your husband, your kids or daycare parents male a mistake. If ANYONE makes a mistake it's on you to manage and be held accountable.

I also think it's financially a hardship. The staff hours to source food and being limited to non trace foods could get very expensive.
exactly... i could only imagine what that would leave in most people's pantry.

Plain and simple, you are not able to meet the needs of the child. Due to the extreme cross contamination that everyone of your families and products you purchase come into, you can not guarantee a nut free environment.

don't be worried about this mom. I guarantee her bark is bigger than her bite.

Not to long ago i had a family try to take me to court for discrimination because i refused to enroll their newly diagnosed diabetic insulin pump wearing child. Plain and simple I could not meet the needs of the child and the state stood behind me. It never made it to court once I turned in my response to her attorney.

I would perhaps add something into your policies that state failure to disclose pertinent information regarding the health and safety of your child will result in immediate termination of care without refund. Even though my state says a family does not have disclose this, my contract says that they do. AND the state can not require me to change it. My contract is approved by an attorney.
Reply With Quote
  #102  
Old 07-16-2015, 06:14 PM
AmyLeigh's Avatar
AmyLeigh AmyLeigh is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Central California
Posts: 875
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by daycare View Post
I guess what i don't get is why would you want to enroll your child in an environment that would be potentially DEADLY to them.

I am vegan and without nuts I would more than likely get ill. You can't live a healthy life without protein.

Man i dont get how a parent can come in and just expect you to never purchase an item with trace nuts.
I have seen on many food items that are not nut related have a warning on them that say something like trace amounts of peanuts may be found in this product due to potential cross contact during manufacturing. It may not be word for word, but something like this.

So basically this lady expects you to now alter your entire family and daycare families diet for her child.

Not going to happen.
Dontcha know, they are special!
Reply With Quote
  #103  
Old 07-16-2015, 06:28 PM
daycare's Avatar
daycare daycare is offline
Advanced Daycare.com Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Mars
Posts: 16,021
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AmyLeigh View Post
Dontcha know, they are special!
lmao....don't get me started!!!!!
Reply With Quote
  #104  
Old 07-16-2015, 08:49 PM
momofapreschooler's Avatar
momofapreschooler momofapreschooler is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Virginia
Posts: 15
Default

My 3 year old has life-threatening peanut allergies.

1. I would not expect a home day care to be a safe environment unless a family member of the household also had a peanut allergy. We avoid things made with common equipment, so even if the provider was very careful, it would be a deal breaker. This is also an unfair burden on a family child care home.

2. Our child signed up for our church preschool in March (age 14 months), and school started the following August. We learned in May about the allergy. I got the director's phone and asked if she could keep her safe. She has a grandson who carries an epi pen and ensured me they could and outlined the things they would do to keep her safe (peanut free classroom but not school, where epi pen kept, who could administer) and spoke to 2 moms of kids with allergies who went to the same preschool. I also drove from the EMS station to the church and timed their drive (7minutes) and talked to EMS about their ability to get to the preschool. Your mom is crazy to try to force your hand on this.

3. Peanut allergies are protected by ADA because they are life-threatening.

4. Schools can ban nuts. This has been upheld by the courts. All children are entitled to a free and appropriate public education. Kids do not have to "compromise" with a peanut free table if a nut free school or classroom is needed to keep them safe. Schools do not have to provide "reasonable accommodations," they must provide the least restrictive environment (to the child, not the school) for a child with a disability.

5. There are phase 3 clinical trials with immunotherapy (small but increasing amounts of peanut, either orally, under the tongue or sublingually and transdermal skin patch) that will likely be FDA approved in less than 2 years. Most kids should be able to eat up to 4 peanuts with the patch and sublingual treatment, more with oral treatment. If a child could safely eat 4 peanuts, then I would think that home day cares would have to accommodate this by meal substitution (sun butter or Wow butter instead of peanut butter) if others in the home could eat peanuts freely. (Sending prayers that phase 3 trials look as promising as earlier studies, because this allergy stinks!)

6. 3 of the 5 child care centers we looked at were peanut free, and one said they would consider going peanut free if my child enrolled. We ended up staying at our church preschool, which we love. All parents send food for their own children. Her class is supposed to be peanut/nut free. Sometimes parents forget. Teachers check all lunches. If a child has peanut products, that child has to either eat in the office with the director or the snack is returned home unopened. On special occasions like birthdays, I send a peanut free cupcake and ice cream because most of those treats may contain peanuts. Some of the parents try really hard to go out of their way to accommodate.

7. Children under 5 do not live in the "real world" and cannot appreciate the risk of death. Young children do need special accommodations until they are old enough to realize the gravity of the situation. If a child kills another, they cannot be charged with murder under a certain age because we know they cannot appreciate their actions. I do think that society needs to accommodate up to that age of responsibility.

8. Many kids with food allergies attend daycare or preschool. Kids do not need a nanny because of food allergies, But, unless the home is already peanut free due to an allergy or intolerance, home daycare is not the right environment in my opinion.

Last edited by momofapreschooler; 07-16-2015 at 08:51 PM. Reason: added peanut patch
Reply With Quote
  #105  
Old 07-16-2015, 09:17 PM
nannyde's Avatar
nannyde nannyde is offline
All powerful, all knowing daycare whisperer
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Des Moines
Posts: 7,308
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by momofapreschooler View Post
My 3 year old has life-threatening peanut allergies.

1. I would not expect a home day care to be a safe environment unless a family member of the household also had a peanut allergy. We avoid things made with common equipment, so even if the provider was very careful, it would be a deal breaker. This is also an unfair burden on a family child care home.

2. Our child signed up for our church preschool in March (age 14 months), and school started the following August. We learned in May about the allergy. I got the director's phone and asked if she could keep her safe. She has a grandson who carries an epi pen and ensured me they could and outlined the things they would do to keep her safe (peanut free classroom but not school, where epi pen kept, who could administer) and spoke to 2 moms of kids with allergies who went to the same preschool. I also drove from the EMS station to the church and timed their drive (7minutes) and talked to EMS about their ability to get to the preschool. Your mom is crazy to try to force your hand on this.

3. Peanut allergies are protected by ADA because they are life-threatening.

4. Schools can ban nuts. This has been upheld by the courts. All children are entitled to a free and appropriate public education. Kids do not have to "compromise" with a peanut free table if a nut free school or classroom is needed to keep them safe. Schools do not have to provide "reasonable accommodations," they must provide the least restrictive environment (to the child, not the school) for a child with a disability.

5. There are phase 3 clinical trials with immunotherapy (small but increasing amounts of peanut, either orally, under the tongue or sublingually and transdermal skin patch) that will likely be FDA approved in less than 2 years. Most kids should be able to eat up to 4 peanuts with the patch and sublingual treatment, more with oral treatment. If a child could safely eat 4 peanuts, then I would think that home day cares would have to accommodate this by meal substitution (sun butter or Wow butter instead of peanut butter) if others in the home could eat peanuts freely. (Sending prayers that phase 3 trials look as promising as earlier studies, because this allergy stinks!)

6. 3 of the 5 child care centers we looked at were peanut free, and one said they would consider going peanut free if my child enrolled. We ended up staying at our church preschool, which we love. All parents send food for their own children. Her class is supposed to be peanut/nut free. Sometimes parents forget. Teachers check all lunches. If a child has peanut products, that child has to either eat in the office with the director or the snack is returned home unopened. On special occasions like birthdays, I send a peanut free cupcake and ice cream because most of those treats may contain peanuts. Some of the parents try really hard to go out of their way to accommodate.

7. Children under 5 do not live in the "real world" and cannot appreciate the risk of death. Young children do need special accommodations until they are old enough to realize the gravity of the situation. If a child kills another, they cannot be charged with murder under a certain age because we know they cannot appreciate their actions. I do think that society needs to accommodate up to that age of responsibility.

8. Many kids with food allergies attend daycare or preschool. Kids do not need a nanny because of food allergies, But, unless the home is already peanut free due to an allergy or intolerance, home daycare is not the right environment in my opinion.
May I ask if the peanut free programs you have visited male all meals and snacks from scratch? Do they have fully functioning kitchens with cooks and buy ingredients that, when put together and cooked, become the four components of the meal?

Or...

Are they heat and serve... meaning they buy commercially prepared food that is heated up and served?

I'm specifically interested in the main course and hot dish sides. I understand they can purchase cold cereal and breads for breakfast and raw fruit, canned fruit, canned vegetables that are nut free and trace free... I'm specifically interested in multi ingredient hot foods.

I know there are commercial food vendors... like Farner Bocken that make commercial foods like meatballs, nuggets, corn dogs etc that are nut free. Are companies like that making it possible for schools to serve peanut free because they advertise peanut free, they assume liability for authentication, and they make it possible for their to be limited staff because the only thing that has to be done is heating.

I have a reason for asking... I hope you can.shed some light on HOW the schools pull it off.
Reply With Quote
  #106  
Old 07-16-2015, 09:58 PM
momofapreschooler's Avatar
momofapreschooler momofapreschooler is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Virginia
Posts: 15
Default

Most places here do not offer healthy, homemade meals and snacks. I think most of it is processed, canned, frozen, etc.

1. One was a owned by our local hospital for their employees but is also open to the community. They had several children with peanut allergies, and the director's grandchild had a peanut allergy. I believe they had most of their food under the purchasing agreement with the hospital.

2. One was part of a national chain. Those meals were not made from scratch. I was told the company had a national policy and national food purchasing contracts.

3. Two nut free schools made meals on site. At one a teachers/cook had nut allergies herself. Lots of toddler friendly unhealthy food and a lot of quick preparation and heat and serve at both places (4/6 were nut free...I had forgotten one).

4. The center that did mostly scratch meals but was not nut free did have an impressive allergy list for all the kids with allergies and just separated the foods. I actually would have trusted the cook, but they served peanut butter 2-3 times per week and too much risk of contact from the other kids.

5. Our local public schools are supposed to be peanut and nut free in terms of what the cafeteria serves. Mostly heat and serve there, too.

We actually eat our very infrequently because of my child's allergy. Our favorite places are our country club (chef says, "we are a scratch kitchen, so we know what is in our food), a local restaurant where the manager has a peanut allergy, a pizza place and 1 fast food restaurant.

Our home is nut free, and other than changing brands, it has not been that difficult to stock our kitchen with everything we once enjoyed except nuts, but it takes a long time to read every label in the grocery store. We do buy a lot of organic food and do have to go to a few grocery stores to get both peanut/nut free and organic for certain items. It probably is more expensive, but with all the money we save by not eating out much, we probably come out ahead.

Last edited by momofapreschooler; 07-16-2015 at 10:01 PM. Reason: added item
Reply With Quote
  #107  
Old 07-17-2015, 06:56 AM
cheerfuldom's Avatar
cheerfuldom cheerfuldom is offline
Advanced Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 7,414
Default

I knew this lady would call and try and bait you on the phone and i was right. You did the right think OP. It is not your problem if other home daycares wont take her, which is a possibility, thats her problem. So even if she is right, it is not a good argument because you cant decide for every other place, just your place. With how rude she was being, I feel that this is final clue that she DID know the allergy. She will probably find some newbie provider that will take her and deal with it. It wont be safe most likely but she will find someone.

I had a mom not let me know of an allergy and show up the first day of care with a "oh by the way, here is her epipen". There are a lot of parents that dont take these allergies seriously, they will drop their kid off and let you deal with it. I had a provider friend that had a daycare baby have a severe reaction, the provider was never notified of the allergy, the ambulance came, the mom NEVER showed up even though she was called! She said it appeared the provider had things under control and she stayed at work! ugh, some parents just really dont care.
Reply With Quote
  #108  
Old 07-17-2015, 07:08 AM
laundrymom's Avatar
laundrymom laundrymom is offline
Advanced Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 4,222
Default

I have two kids in my life who are deathly allergic to nuts.
So this thread and the bullying tactic the mom tried really makes my blood boil.

My daughter dated a boy for over a year with the life threatening tree nut allergy. Not just peanuts. But all tree nuts. He was 17 yrs old at the time and reads everything. Every label. Every time. If something isn't labeled he will put a touch on the inside of his lower lip and hold it there for two minutes. If he feels any sensation he immediately doses w med and washes mouth. But it took him 17 years to get that way. To condition himself and police himself. His parents are still hyper aware of everything he ingests. There is NO WAY they would expect a daycare provider to deal with the risk management. When he would go places w us I had a list of foods that I knew were safe. Chickens, we knew where they were raised and who processed them. Eggs. Flour. Butter. Etc. real. Food ingredients. Things like smores. He couldn't have Hershey bars. He had canned icing. A particular brand. When daughter got job at roadhouse she had to shower. Keep her work clothes completely seperate. He couldn't even ride in her car.
This experience tells me a few things about the OPs potential family.
1. This mom is either an uncaring, uninformed, and un loving mom. Or she is inflating the severity of the allergy.
Because I can tell you, our peanut boys mom goes above and beyond to keep him safe. To educate people around him. To protect him at all costs. He was 15 mo when he was snacking on older brothers pbj at the table and went into A shock. The second time he was exposed they were at kings island. Walking around at age four when they passed the fudge shoppe. Samples were being passed out and they specifically asked... Is this nut free. The poor girl serving didn't think, she just looked down, saw her samples were chocolate without nuts so she said they were nut free. 30 feet down the path he started gasping. 30 minutes later he was in ER. Where he stayed for four days. Kings island has since educated their staff and changed policy.

The other little girl was about 6. On a peanut free flight from Indy to Phoenix. When they changed planes they confirmed the connecting flight was nut free. They get in the air, everything is fine, all of a sudden little girl tugs on moms shirt. "Mom. I smell peanuts. My throat hurts."
Honey. It's a nut free flight. At which point she started gasping. Her epi pan was used. Pilot emergency landed at the nearest airport with a big enough runway and the ambulance met them on the runway. After a search of the plane they found someone who didn't intentionally try to hurt the little princess, but they had carried on a bag of peanut M&Ms. Not thinking. They didn't know what they didn't know. Until they learned.
The bottom line is until you know, you don't know what you don't know. And usually when you know, it's because of something catastrophic.
This is why the OPs potential client makes me so angry.
Allergies are nothing to muck around with. It belittles the sacrifice so many make every day to keep their kids safe. And to place that burden on a provider and nonchalantly mention it after a contract is signed?!?!
That's neglect. Plain and simple. It should be the FIRST question to ask a potential provider. Not a text three days later. And I won't believe the kid was diagnosed the Friday after the interview until Elsa herself makes Arizona a frozen wonderland.
Grerrrrr. Just. Grrrrrrr
Reply With Quote
  #109  
Old 07-17-2015, 08:26 AM
Baby Beluga's Avatar
Baby Beluga Baby Beluga is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 3,900
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by laundrymom View Post
1. This mom is either an uncaring, uninformed, and un loving mom. Or she is inflating the severity of the allergy.
Because I can tell you, our peanut boys mom goes above and beyond to keep him safe. To educate people around him. To protect him at all costs.
I have to agree with this. My own 3 year old has allergies - dairy, egg and peanuts. She can be near these things she just can't ingest them. Every single time we go somewhere or she spends the night at my in-laws I pack all of her food. That way I know how it was prepared, what it touched, etc. I trust my MIL to do these things (and she has offered) but I don't want her to go through the hassle of making sure the food is safe for my DD to eat, nor the guilt should something not be properly prepared and my DD has a reaction. I would NEVER expect anyone to do that. Ever.
Reply With Quote
  #110  
Old 07-17-2015, 09:43 AM
Tasha's Avatar
Tasha Tasha is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Illinois
Posts: 656
Default

I had company come to town yesterday afternoon so I haven't been able to read the posts since then so I've got some catching up to do, but I do want
to thank everybody - especially Nannyde for her terrific advice and BC (who really understands the intricacies of caring for a person with diabetes). But really everybody who replied. I really couldn't even have a good time last night with my visitors because I was so worked up over this woman. We were gone last night but I know she tried calling me a couple of times on my home phone, but didn't leave a message. So I'm waiting for that other shoe to drop...
Reply With Quote
  #111  
Old 07-17-2015, 09:44 AM
childcaremom's Avatar
childcaremom childcaremom is offline
Advanced Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 2,969
Default

Do not answer the phone. I would not engage with her anymore at all.

Could you imagine you had actually ended up with her as a client?
Reply With Quote
  #112  
Old 07-17-2015, 09:47 AM
daycare's Avatar
daycare daycare is offline
Advanced Daycare.com Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Mars
Posts: 16,021
Default



Yes,this. I would not engage with her anymore. There is nothing left to discuss.

So sorry your night was ruined by this lady. I have been there before and it stinks. Hugs to you and TGIF!!
Reply With Quote
  #113  
Old 07-17-2015, 09:48 AM
Tasha's Avatar
Tasha Tasha is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Illinois
Posts: 656
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheerfuldom View Post
I knew this lady would call and try and bait you on the phone and i was right. You did the right think OP. It is not your problem if other home daycares wont take her, which is a possibility, thats her problem. So even if she is right, it is not a good argument because you cant decide for every other place, just your place. With how rude she was being, I feel that this is final clue that she DID know the allergy. She will probably find some newbie provider that will take her and deal with it. It wont be safe most likely but she will find someone.

I had a mom not let me know of an allergy and show up the first day of care with a "oh by the way, here is her epipen". There are a lot of parents that dont take these allergies seriously, they will drop their kid off and let you deal with it. I had a provider friend that had a daycare baby have a severe reaction, the provider was never notified of the allergy, the ambulance came, the mom NEVER showed up even though she was called! She said it appeared the provider had things under control and she stayed at work! ugh, some parents just really dont care.
These examples just astonish me! It's interesting to me to know that I am not the only provider who this has happened to. In a weird way it makes me feel better to find out it's happened to other people. But it also makes my blood boil.
Reply With Quote
  #114  
Old 07-17-2015, 09:51 AM
KidGrind's Avatar
KidGrind KidGrind is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Red, White & Blue
Posts: 1,108
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tasha View Post
I had company come to town yesterday afternoon so I haven't been able to read the posts since then so I've got some catching up to do, but I do want
to thank everybody - especially Nannyde for her terrific advice and BC (who really understands the intricacies of caring for a person with diabetes). But really everybody who replied. I really couldn't even have a good time last night with my visitors because I was so worked up over this woman. We were gone last night but I know she tried calling me a couple of times on my home phone, but didn't leave a message. So I'm waiting for that other shoe to drop...
I would like you to know I have multiply allergies including a peanut allergy. I manage it and Iíve only had one scary incident which involved an undiagnosed allergy. The DCM my response and actions with saving her sons life.

I would decline providing care for this child. A childís life in not to be played with and this mother is doing exactly that with her dishonesty.
Reply With Quote
  #115  
Old 07-17-2015, 09:54 AM
nannyde's Avatar
nannyde nannyde is offline
All powerful, all knowing daycare whisperer
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Des Moines
Posts: 7,308
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tasha View Post
I had company come to town yesterday afternoon so I haven't been able to read the posts since then so I've got some catching up to do, but I do want
to thank everybody - especially Nannyde for her terrific advice and BC (who really understands the intricacies of caring for a person with diabetes). But really everybody who replied. I really couldn't even have a good time last night with my visitors because I was so worked up over this woman. We were gone last night but I know she tried calling me a couple of times on my home phone, but didn't leave a message. So I'm waiting for that other shoe to drop...
Did you get a doc note from your daughter's doctor?
Reply With Quote
  #116  
Old 07-17-2015, 10:53 AM
Tasha's Avatar
Tasha Tasha is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Illinois
Posts: 656
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nannyde View Post
Did you get a doc note from your daughter's doctor?
I did. I was worried she would balk but she understood completely, so now I have it on file. I never would have thought of asking for one, so thank you.
Reply With Quote
  #117  
Old 07-17-2015, 11:08 AM
nannyde's Avatar
nannyde nannyde is offline
All powerful, all knowing daycare whisperer
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Des Moines
Posts: 7,308
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tasha View Post
I did. I was worried she would balk but she understood completely, so now I have it on file. I never would have thought of asking for one, so thank you.
Can you tell me.how she wrote it?

You can pm me if you want.
Reply With Quote
  #118  
Old 07-17-2015, 01:09 PM
Tasha's Avatar
Tasha Tasha is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Illinois
Posts: 656
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nannyde View Post
Can you tell me.how she wrote it?

You can pm me if you want.
Sure, I'll PM you.
Reply With Quote
  #119  
Old 07-17-2015, 01:33 PM
nannyde's Avatar
nannyde nannyde is offline
All powerful, all knowing daycare whisperer
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Des Moines
Posts: 7,308
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tasha View Post
Sure, I'll PM you.
You have what you need. I wouldn't take anymore of her calls. Has she called you today?
Reply With Quote
  #120  
Old 07-17-2015, 01:56 PM
Tasha's Avatar
Tasha Tasha is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Illinois
Posts: 656
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nannyde View Post
You have what you need. I wouldn't take anymore of her calls. Has she called you today?
You must have mental telepathy because she just did. The phone rang while I was giving snack, and I did not answer. So that's 3 times that she has called and not left a message. I can't take the phone off the hook, and she has my cell number, obviously, and now I wonder what she wants and how long she is going to keep this up. I just want this ordeal over and for the knot to leave my stomach.
Reply With Quote
  #121  
Old 07-17-2015, 02:05 PM
mommyneedsadayoff's Avatar
mommyneedsadayoff mommyneedsadayoff is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,751
Default

I am so sorry she won't leave you alone Hopefully she will take the hint and move on!
Reply With Quote
  #122  
Old 07-17-2015, 02:08 PM
Rockgirl's Avatar
Rockgirl Rockgirl is online now
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 2,178
Default

If you've already arranged for returning her deposit, you could email her, stating there is nothing else to be discussed, and please stop calling.
Reply With Quote
  #123  
Old 07-17-2015, 02:30 PM
nannyde's Avatar
nannyde nannyde is offline
All powerful, all knowing daycare whisperer
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Des Moines
Posts: 7,308
Default

What's the return of money deal?
Reply With Quote
  #124  
Old 07-17-2015, 02:41 PM
Tasha's Avatar
Tasha Tasha is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Illinois
Posts: 656
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nannyde View Post
What's the return of money deal?
When she turned in the paperwork on Sunday, she also gave me a deposit
check. So on Wednesday, I overnighted (Fed-Ex) the deposit check back to her.
So I know she has it. I don't have a registration fee or anything like that, so that's all I owe her.
Reply With Quote
  #125  
Old 07-17-2015, 02:46 PM
nannyde's Avatar
nannyde nannyde is offline
All powerful, all knowing daycare whisperer
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Des Moines
Posts: 7,308
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tasha View Post
When she turned in the paperwork on Sunday, she also gave me a deposit
check. So on Wednesday, I overnighted (Fed-Ex) the deposit check back to her.
So I know she has it. I don't have a registration fee or anything like that, so that's all I owe her.
Wow

I'm dying to know why she keeps calling.

Somebody probably told her you HAVE to take the kid so she's calling to tell you she will sue you if you don't.

She probably wants more details on the kid you have that must have peanut products. She has most likely been told that there is no such thing.

Sheesh she was going to start next Monday. She should be looking for a daycare.
Reply With Quote
  #126  
Old 07-17-2015, 02:54 PM
cheerfuldom's Avatar
cheerfuldom cheerfuldom is offline
Advanced Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 7,414
Default

She is just calling to bully you. I dont know why she would want to have her child at a place where they cant and dont want to accommodate her/her child/the allergy. Some people just dont want to stop and keep shoving in. I would also guess that she has or is now having a hard time getting someone to agree to take her daughter with the allergy. The only thing she knows to do is to bully you into keeping the original agreement. Anyway, I still dont understand parents that just keep being confrontational. Is that really how they want to start off with the person that is caring for their child????

or she might just be one of those people that just HAVE to get the last word/threat/etc in. She wants to be the one that says no to you, not the other way around.
Reply With Quote
  #127  
Old 07-17-2015, 03:42 PM
Josiegirl's Avatar
Josiegirl Josiegirl is online now
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Right here
Posts: 10,818
Default

She hasn't left a message these last 3x? Definitely wants the last word and/or to threaten you now. Crazy woman. Wonder what her dh is thinking about all this.
I can't remember if you've called licensing to see what laws might apply here? I would think, even if it's covered in ADA, you'd be protected if you cannot accommodate their needs. And when a parent pushes the envelope this far, it's more about control than anything.
Reply With Quote
  #128  
Old 07-17-2015, 03:50 PM
mommyneedsadayoff's Avatar
mommyneedsadayoff mommyneedsadayoff is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,751
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheerfuldom View Post
She is just calling to bully you. I dont know why she would want to have her child at a place where they cant and dont want to accommodate her/her child/the allergy. Some people just dont want to stop and keep shoving in. I would also guess that she has or is now having a hard time getting someone to agree to take her daughter with the allergy. The only thing she knows to do is to bully you into keeping the original agreement. Anyway, I still dont understand parents that just keep being confrontational. Is that really how they want to start off with the person that is caring for their child????

or she might just be one of those people that just HAVE to get the last word/threat/etc in.
She wants to be the one that says no to you, not the other way around
.
Bingo! I am actually that type of person that would love to take her call
Reply With Quote
  #129  
Old 07-17-2015, 04:38 PM
Thriftylady's Avatar
Thriftylady Thriftylady is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Ohio
Posts: 5,887
Default

Blackcat, I sometimes use peanut butter when my blood sugar goes low due to my meds. And the rest of my family just likes it. I merely tolerate it, because before I was diabetic I was hypoglycemic. I have used so darn much of it that it almost turns me off now. I have an upcoming doctors appt. So if I was going to ask the doctor to write something up, what would I want it to say?
Reply With Quote
  #130  
Old 07-17-2015, 05:04 PM
momofapreschooler's Avatar
momofapreschooler momofapreschooler is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Virginia
Posts: 15
Default

I can understand why a doctor would write this for a toddler with diabetes, as they are notoriously picky and if they have hypoglycemia, then it is a good snack, but there are alternatives for adults (soy butter, sunbutter, etc.), so I would be surprised if your physician actually writes such a note for a grown woman. I think is also makes a difference if you are a Type 1 diabetic (make no insulin at all, as most young children with diabetes are) versus if you are type 2 diabetic. That being said, as a HOME daycare, I do not think you need to be nut free and do not think you need a note. If you feel you cannot safely accommodate a serious allergy, as a sole provider in a business run out of your own home, that should be enough.
Reply With Quote
  #131  
Old 07-17-2015, 05:28 PM
Thriftylady's Avatar
Thriftylady Thriftylady is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Ohio
Posts: 5,887
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by momofapreschooler View Post
I can understand why a doctor would write this for a toddler with diabetes, as they are notoriously picky and if they have hypoglycemia, then it is a good snack, but there are alternatives for adults (soy butter, sunbutter, etc.), so I would be surprised if your physician actually writes such a note for a grown woman. I think is also makes a difference if you are a Type 1 diabetic (make no insulin at all, as most young children with diabetes are) versus if you are type 2 diabetic. That being said, as a HOME daycare, I do not think you need to be nut free and do not think you need a note. If you feel you cannot safely accommodate a serious allergy, as a sole provider in a business run out of your own home, that should be enough.
The actually suggest peanuts/peanut butter because it is fast acting and being a protein it helps keep the blood sugar level. It really has nothing to do with the insulin, it has more to do with the fact that insulin and other diabetes meds lower the blood sugar. That is what you are counter acting when you eat the peanut M$Ms, the peanut butter cup, the peanut butter crackers (what I usually use). Top that with the fact that my hubby and daughter just won't live in a peanut free home, and I would like to cover my basis. BC's husband actually uses the peanut M&M's it has nothing do to with age.
Reply With Quote
  #132  
Old 07-17-2015, 05:34 PM
nannyde's Avatar
nannyde nannyde is offline
All powerful, all knowing daycare whisperer
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Des Moines
Posts: 7,308
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by momofapreschooler View Post
I can understand why a doctor would write this for a toddler with diabetes, as they are notoriously picky and if they have hypoglycemia, then it is a good snack, but there are alternatives for adults (soy butter, sunbutter, etc.), so I would be surprised if your physician actually writes such a note for a grown woman. I think is also makes a difference if you are a Type 1 diabetic (make no insulin at all, as most young children with diabetes are) versus if you are type 2 diabetic. That being said, as a HOME daycare, I do not think you need to be nut free and do not think you need a note. If you feel you cannot safely accommodate a serious allergy, as a sole provider in a business run out of your own home, that should be enough.
I don't agree that anyone at any age should be expected to try alternatives.

Here's the dealio... when you have a serious illness you do WHAT WORKS. What works may change over time but you shouldn't have to embark on a journey to find alternatives when what works is already in place.

One person's special needs doesn't trump another's.

I have had failure to thrive kids, eating disorders, and sensory disorders. I've also had mentally ill preschoolers. They all would eat creamy peanut butter and refuse every other protein. I had one kid who drank a bottle of whole milk, rice baby cereal, banana, and two tablespoons of creamy peanut butter after each meal. She ate what she could but she would fill her belly with that concoction to keep her alive.

I've had kids who were in intensive food therapy who had peanut butter ordered as a doc ordered treatment.

If there was something else that would work, I wouldn't want to even try it. By the time you have found the golden ticket you don't mess with it.

If I were a diabetic and relied on a food to stabilize my sugar I would get an order for it and keep it on file. A child I met once who could go to one of a zillion other daycares wouldn't even be a consideration. I have to be healthy and earn money to feed my kid. I can serve the special needs population with another disability. I am not obligated to serve one that could impact my health.
Reply With Quote
  #133  
Old 07-17-2015, 06:01 PM
momofapreschooler's Avatar
momofapreschooler momofapreschooler is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Virginia
Posts: 15
Default

Again, I do not think a home daycare needs to accommodate a child with an allergy if they are not comfortable doing so. The provider must be able to safely care for all children in her care...simply that they enjoy nuts in the home is enough in my opinion, being the only adult present is enough in my opinion, being too far remote from EMS is enough in my opinion, but it does seem like having an adult with diabetes say that PB is the only thing that will work to stabilize their blood sugar is not accurate.

I am assuming the discomfort many home providers have is with all life-threatening food allergies (except maybe seafood) and not just peanut allergies.

If that is the argument that the provider is using to turn away kids with allergies, them what about milk, soy, wheat, egg and other life-threatening allergies? No reputable medical doctor is going to say you need all of those for emergency management of diabetes.
Reply With Quote
  #134  
Old 07-17-2015, 06:09 PM
momofapreschooler's Avatar
momofapreschooler momofapreschooler is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Virginia
Posts: 15
Default

I have to say, though, that I am very surprised at the mom in the original post. Any time a provider who says that she did not think my child was safe for any reason is not the right provider for my family. I do believe this is a real post, but it is really hard to imagine what type of parent would consider for even one second keeping their child with someone who honestly says that they cannot do the job. Perhaps a child care providers you have seen it and can imagine it, but it is confusing to me as a parent as to why anyone would entrust her child to someone who says, "no, I cannot do this in good faith."
Reply With Quote
  #135  
Old 07-17-2015, 06:24 PM
Thriftylady's Avatar
Thriftylady Thriftylady is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Ohio
Posts: 5,887
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by momofapreschooler View Post
Again, I do not think a home daycare needs to accommodate a child with an allergy if they are not comfortable doing so. The provider must be able to safely care for all children in her care...simply that they enjoy nuts in the home is enough in my opinion, being the only adult present is enough in my opinion, being too far remote from EMS is enough in my opinion, but it does seem like having an adult with diabetes say that PB is the only thing that will work to stabilize their blood sugar is not accurate.

I am assuming the discomfort many home providers have is with all life-threatening food allergies (except maybe seafood) and not just peanut allergies.

If that is the argument that the provider is using to turn away kids with allergies, them what about milk, soy, wheat, egg and other life-threatening allergies? No reputable medical doctor is going to say you need all of those for emergency management of diabetes.
But if PB is what I have been using for 10 years why should I have to change? And if in fact a PB allergy is a "protected group" by the ADA, then no the fact my family enjoys nuts may not be enough to turn away a child with a PB allergy. But MY health is just as important as the children I care for. I can't fix any issues I have in a hurry, then who is going to be here to protect the children if I pass out? The bottom line is like NannyDe said, I should not have to go around looking for different ways to manage my health just because you say so. You in this case meaning your or anyone else. I don't see why you think the health of the provider is not important.
Reply With Quote
  #136  
Old 07-17-2015, 06:25 PM
LysesKids's Avatar
LysesKids LysesKids is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 2,844
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by momofapreschooler View Post
Again, I do not think a home daycare needs to accommodate a child with an allergy if they are not comfortable doing so. The provider must be able to safely care for all children in her care...simply that they enjoy nuts in the home is enough in my opinion, being the only adult present is enough in my opinion, being too far remote from EMS is enough in my opinion, but it does seem like having an adult with diabetes say that PB is the only thing that will work to stabilize their blood sugar is not accurate.

I am assuming the discomfort many home providers have is with all life-threatening food allergies (except maybe seafood) and not just peanut allergies.

If that is the argument that the provider is using to turn away kids with allergies, them what about milk, soy, wheat, egg and other life-threatening allergies? No reputable medical doctor is going to say you need all of those for emergency management of diabetes.
Actually I have been doing some research & YES, even home providers, licensed or licensed exempt, are required to follow ADA law because they are considered public businesses; the exception is if it causes undo hardship to remodel or in my case (& the OP), problems with our health due to extreme allergies... just because a kid has an allergy or needs to use an EPI or even a service animal is not a reason to turn away a child (in my case due to allergies to cats & dogs I can say no on this)

I also have health issues that would be affected taking this child - that and I have another child already in care that needs the nut flours & such because he can't actually have regular flours, dairy or soy; in my case I can say no, in houses where the provider or another child doesn't have life threatening issues, then yes a parent can force the ADA down their throat. They even say on the website that added insurance cost is not a legal reason to turn away a kid... they say you have to spread the cost between all the families. Everyone do your homework because it can affect you next
Reply With Quote
  #137  
Old 07-17-2015, 06:31 PM
KiddieCahoots's Avatar
KiddieCahoots KiddieCahoots is offline
FCC Educator
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Utopia
Posts: 1,351
Default

My daghter is and has been highly allergic to peanuts.....needs epi pens, throat will swell up, etc.
I run the daycare in the way that keeps her safe, and will oblige others that need the same care, but will not exclude peanuts from the environment.
This is just craziness!!!
Is it really that necessary that we need to protect ourselves, for the responsibility of one in our "in home daycare"?
Do we have a moral responsibility to this as daycare providers?
Reply With Quote
  #138  
Old 07-17-2015, 06:57 PM
nannyde's Avatar
nannyde nannyde is offline
All powerful, all knowing daycare whisperer
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Des Moines
Posts: 7,308
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LysesKids View Post
Actually I have been doing some research & YES, even home providers, licensed or licensed exempt, are required to follow ADA law because they are considered public businesses; the exception is if it causes undo hardship to remodel or in my case (& the OP), problems with our health due to extreme allergies... just because a kid has an allergy or needs to use an EPI or even a service animal is not a reason to turn away a child (in my case due to allergies to cats & dogs I can say no on this)

I also have health issues that would be affected taking this child - that and I have another child already in care that needs the nut flours & such because he can't actually have regular flours, dairy or soy; in my case I can say no, in houses where the provider or another child doesn't have life threatening issues, then yes a parent can force the ADA down their throat. They even say on the website that added insurance cost is not a legal reason to turn away a kid... they say you have to spread the cost between all the families. Everyone do your homework because it can affect you next
This is true BUT

To my knowledge the Department of Justice has never sued a home child care to force them to take a child or punish them for not taking one. My theory is that their expectations that cost of care should be dispersed among the current clients can so easily be proven as substantial financial impact.

Let's say you have a kid that needs care that would cost you a mere hundred a week in staff time and hard cost. For example, you have a seizure kid who must have direct visual supervision during nap every day. At ten bucks an hour for a helper, that's $100 a week.

You have five clients and in order to spread the cost you must raise rates $20 a week or $86 per month.

When you announce you must raise rates 10 to 20 percent a month the clients would just leave. It would take one day of having that convo with the parents and you would loose them all.

A center with 200 kids would spread the cost at fifty cents a day or approximately a half of a percent increase.

When going after home daycare they have to be sure the client base CAN support the cost. With the small number of clients it's very easy to prove the cost would close the business. The provider would have to close down and then reopen when the special needs kid found care elsewhere. Then she could reopen until the next one came along with their special needs needs.

Making a home peanut free is a ton of staff time and MUST be compensated by tuition. The extra labor of checking every kid every day... doing an additional hand washing and face cleaning, face cleaning, takes time. Doing parent conferencing to lay down the rules AND making the agreement that THEY are responsible to male sure ANYONE who drops off or picks up is trained takes TIME. Reading labels takes A TON OF TIME. Shopping specifically for these foods takes WAY more time and the cost of the food is more expensive.

The parents of the daycare MUST pay for ALL of that. If it's fifty cents a day they would. If it's four a day they won't.

That math is for ONE kid. Soon as the next special needs comes along then the money starts again. What needs to be understood is that the DOJ doesn't expect the provider to do ANY of it for free. They expect the cost to be shared. When you only have four ... five... six... seven families it takes next to nothing to elevate the cost to the point where they will just leave and go to a daycare where they don't have to pay for special needs kids. They have a hard enough time paying for their own. Average parents won't do it unless it's pennies.
Reply With Quote
  #139  
Old 07-17-2015, 07:07 PM
momofapreschooler's Avatar
momofapreschooler momofapreschooler is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Virginia
Posts: 15
Default

As a parent of a child with an allergy, I can attest that it does take a TON of time. Perhaps I am interpreting ADA incorrectly (and honestly for a home preschool I did not think it would apply), but because I know the lengths we go to in order to keep my child safe, I cannot imagine that a home provider with other children present could do it except in the most unusual of circumstances.

Those who have been providers for a long time...is it uncommon for a parent to try to force you to keep a child that you feel you cannot care for safely?
Reply With Quote
  #140  
Old 07-17-2015, 07:15 PM
Thriftylady's Avatar
Thriftylady Thriftylady is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Ohio
Posts: 5,887
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by momofapreschooler View Post
As a parent of a child with an allergy, I can attest that it does take a TON of time. Perhaps I am interpreting ADA incorrectly (and honestly for a home preschool I did not think it would apply), but because I know the lengths we go to in order to keep my child safe, I cannot imagine that a home provider with other children present could do it except in the most unusual of circumstances.

Those who have been providers for a long time...is it uncommon for a parent to try to force you to keep a child that you feel you cannot care for safely?
Well as a child care provider it is just one MORE thing I worry about being sued over. If someone trips in my driveway and they decide to, they can sue me. If they are mad because they didn't pay and I termed them, they can call in a false accusation that costs me time and money to fight. And if they are mad because I say I can't take a child with a peanut allergy, that may be reason for that accusation if nothing else.
Reply With Quote
  #141  
Old 07-17-2015, 07:26 PM
momofboys's Avatar
momofboys momofboys is offline
Advanced Daycare Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,434
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LysesKids View Post
I agree... normally kids get into peanut butter & such before 3 years; heck, I have 1 year olds eating it. If there was an allergy that was that bad I think they would already know. Believe me, most my babies that have allergy issues start showing signs by 12 months ( inc chemicals/scents which is one of my issues); BTW, I also have 3 allergies that are life threatening... 2 are food that I can NEVER EAT in any form much less touch ( needless to say I do not serve them in my childcare home )
Not necessarily. I have a PA DS & we didn't know he was allergic because he was born at a time when they still recommended not giving kids PB until they were 2 or 3. So I was a strictly by the book mom & never gave him peanut foods. He had other allergy issues (egg) so when he was tested at 2 we found out he had a very strong PA.
Reply With Quote
  #142  
Old 07-17-2015, 07:28 PM
Thriftylady's Avatar
Thriftylady Thriftylady is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Ohio
Posts: 5,887
Default

And on a side note I saw something the other day saying that they think part of the reason for so many peanut allergies is that we quit giving kids peanut products as babies. Not sure if they have done studies yet or not.
Reply With Quote
  #143  
Old 07-17-2015, 07:30 PM
momofboys's Avatar
momofboys momofboys is offline
Advanced Daycare Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,434
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockgirl View Post
Perfect!
Wow! Insensitive. Although if I didn't have a child with nut allergies I probably wouldn't want to accommodate a child with them either I find this very insensitive. Just say you can't do it.....no reason to push the item that could cause death as a means to get the parent to turn you down. I didn't tag the right post I meant to tag the post about having PB cookies out at each interview. I don't expect special for my kids & would never expect a provider to give me "special" (one of the reasons I stayed home with my child when he was not in school) but being kind goes a long way!
Reply With Quote
  #144  
Old 07-17-2015, 07:34 PM
momofboys's Avatar
momofboys momofboys is offline
Advanced Daycare Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,434
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thriftylady View Post
Well as a child care provider it is just one MORE thing I worry about being sued over. If someone trips in my driveway and they decide to, they can sue me. If they are mad because they didn't pay and I termed them, they can call in a false accusation that costs me time and money to fight. And if they are mad because I say I can't take a child with a peanut allergy, that may be reason for that accusation if nothing else.
I think most allergy parents don't want to sue, they just want their child to live and not have to worry about every single item that enters their mouth.
Reply With Quote
  #145  
Old 07-17-2015, 07:38 PM
LysesKids's Avatar
LysesKids LysesKids is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 2,844
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nannyde View Post
This is true BUT

To my knowledge the Department of Justice has never sued a home child care to force them to take a child or punish them for not taking one. My theory is that their expectations that cost of care should be dispersed among the current clients can so easily be proven as substantial financial impact.

Let's say you have a kid that needs care that would cost you a mere hundred a week in staff time and hard cost. For example, you have a seizure kid who must have direct visual supervision during nap every day. At ten bucks an hour for a helper, that's $100 a week.

You have five clients and in order to spread the cost you must raise rates $20 a week or $86 per month.

When you announce you must raise rates 10 to 20 percent a month the clients would just leave. It would take one day of having that convo with the parents and you would loose them all.

A center with 200 kids would spread the cost at fifty cents a day or approximately a half of a percent increase.

When going after home daycare they have to be sure the client base CAN support the cost. With the small number of clients it's very easy to prove the cost would close the business. The provider would have to close down and then reopen when the special needs kid found care elsewhere. Then she could reopen until the next one came along with their special needs needs.

Making a home peanut free is a ton of staff time and MUST be compensated by tuition. The extra labor of checking every kid every day... doing an additional hand washing and face cleaning, face cleaning, takes time. Doing parent conferencing to lay down the rules AND making the agreement that THEY are responsible to male sure ANYONE who drops off or picks up is trained takes TIME. Reading labels takes A TON OF TIME. Shopping specifically for these foods takes WAY more time and the cost of the food is more expensive.

The parents of the daycare MUST pay for ALL of that. If it's fifty cents a day they would. If it's four a day they won't.

That math is for ONE kid. Soon as the next special needs comes along then the money starts again. What needs to be understood is that the DOJ doesn't expect the provider to do ANY of it for free. They expect the cost to be shared. When you only have four ... five... six... seven families it takes next to nothing to elevate the cost to the point where they will just leave and go to a daycare where they don't have to pay for special needs kids. They have a hard enough time paying for their own. Average parents won't do it unless it's pennies.
Yes, but the Justice Dept has sued & won an ADA suit against one major daycare center... ( La Petite) - and it was just the one center that it sued not the corp... if a parent pushes the the issue it could bankrupt a provider. This is why I have certain paragraphs in my contract; one that is signed when registering the baby - that all medical & mental issues have been disclosed to provider including known allergies. If I could prove she had known in advance, this wouldn't even be an issue here
Reply With Quote
  #146  
Old 07-17-2015, 07:47 PM
nannyde's Avatar
nannyde nannyde is offline
All powerful, all knowing daycare whisperer
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Des Moines
Posts: 7,308
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LysesKids View Post
Yes, but the Justice Dept has sued & won an ADA suit against one major daycare center... ( La Petite) - and it was just the one center that it sued not the corp... if a parent pushes the the issue it could bankrupt a provider. This is why I have certain paragraphs in my contract; one that is signed when registering the baby - that all medical & mental issues have been disclosed to provider including known allergies. If I could prove she had known in advance, this wouldn't even be an issue here
They have sued a number of CENTERS. I'm not aware of any case law of them suing home care. I even asked Tom Copeland and he isn't aware either.
Reply With Quote
  #147  
Old 07-17-2015, 07:49 PM
LysesKids's Avatar
LysesKids LysesKids is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 2,844
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nannyde View Post
They have sued a number of CENTERS. I'm not aware of any case law of them suing home care. I even asked Tom Copeland and he isn't aware either.
Understood, but there is always a first for everything
Reply With Quote
  #148  
Old 07-17-2015, 08:09 PM
nannyde's Avatar
nannyde nannyde is offline
All powerful, all knowing daycare whisperer
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Des Moines
Posts: 7,308
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LysesKids View Post
Understood, but there is always a first for everything
I would guess when they contact home child care they scare them into submission. It's VERY important to understand the MONEY of the ADA. The section where they expect the cost to be spread out. That's the.money shot.

Also, be WILLING to do in depth time studies when you are presented with accommodation. Time IS money and the TIME for this special need is significant. It doesn't have to be hard work... just work that takes TIME. Our time must be compensated. Every label read takes time. Every extra washing. Every parent conference with parent and other kids parents. It all takes time.
Reply With Quote
  #149  
Old 07-17-2015, 08:23 PM
Thriftylady's Avatar
Thriftylady Thriftylady is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Ohio
Posts: 5,887
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nannyde View Post
I would guess when they contact home child care they scare them into submission. It's VERY important to understand the MONEY of the ADA. The section where they expect the cost to be spread out. That's the.money shot.

Also, be WILLING to do in depth time studies when you are presented with accommodation. Time IS money and the TIME for this special need is significant. It doesn't have to be hard work... just work that takes TIME. Our time must be compensated. Every label read takes time. Every extra washing. Every parent conference with parent and other kids parents. It all takes time.
You are making me feel better about this. What you are saying makes perfect sense. It is just so scary anymore with all these things. And yes I believe that children with allergies deserve and should have quality care. I just think that small business owners (because that is what we are) also deserve a fair shot.
Reply With Quote
  #150  
Old 07-17-2015, 08:39 PM
MyAngels's Avatar
MyAngels MyAngels is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,143
Default

Can you just block her number if she keeps calling? Both my home phone provider and my cell phone have options to do that. When a blocked number calls my phone they get a message that my phone number is not accepting calls from the calling party or something to that effect.

Here's to hoping she'll just drop it already
Reply With Quote
  #151  
Old 07-18-2015, 04:45 AM
nannyde's Avatar
nannyde nannyde is offline
All powerful, all knowing daycare whisperer
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Des Moines
Posts: 7,308
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by momofboys View Post
Wow! Insensitive. Although if I didn't have a child with nut allergies I probably wouldn't want to accommodate a child with them either I find this very insensitive. Just say you can't do it.....no reason to push the item that could cause death as a means to get the parent to turn you down. I didn't tag the right post I meant to tag the post about having PB cookies out at each interview. I don't expect special for my kids & would never expect a provider to give me "special" (one of the reasons I stayed home with my child when he was not in school) but being kind goes a long way!
It will mean nothing to the parents who don't have a kid with a peanut allergy.
It wouldn't happen with a family that was upfront about their kids peanut allergy before the interview.
It would stop a parent who wanted to deceive a provider and secure a slit BEFORE the information was given. It would force her to come divulge at the front door before entering and give the provider time to consider and reschedule. It would give the provider time without having to declare what she will or won't do before she has time to consider it.

This isn't the first time I have heard this exact routine. This is a common tactic to gain entry before disclosure so refusal to take the child becomes discrimination.

This is a textbook case.

Only difference is special meets special.

A sign on the door stating this is a nut friendly house and having nut products within view at the first contact stops the deceit.
Reply With Quote
  #152  
Old 07-18-2015, 07:30 AM
Baby Beluga's Avatar
Baby Beluga Baby Beluga is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 3,900
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by momofapreschooler View Post
As a parent of a child with an allergy, I can attest that it does take a TON of time. Perhaps I am interpreting ADA incorrectly (and honestly for a home preschool I did not think it would apply), but because I know the lengths we go to in order to keep my child safe, I cannot imagine that a home provider with other children present could do it except in the most unusual of circumstances.

Those who have been providers for a long time...is it uncommon for a parent to try to force you to keep a child that you feel you cannot care for safely?
Yes and no. You may be surprised to find out just how bossy, bullish and entitled some parents can get when they are told no. I believe some of it stems from the parent not truly understanding what it takes to keep a child safe and sometimes I think it is a from a parent who simply does not care and feels entitled. As providers we get to meet some incredibly wonder families and children. However we also get to meet some of the most dense, uncaring, parents who feel their child puts them out. While I am sure you can't fathom putting your child somewhere where the provider feels she cannot in good faith keep your child safe, there are parents out there who simply don't care and are happy to not have to deal with the problem for X amount of hours each day.
Reply With Quote
  #153  
Old 07-18-2015, 01:24 PM
Thriftylady's Avatar
Thriftylady Thriftylady is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Ohio
Posts: 5,887
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baby Beluga View Post
Yes and no. You may be surprised to find out just how bossy, bullish and entitled some parents can get when they are told no. I believe some of it stems from the parent not truly understanding what it takes to keep a child safe and sometimes I think it is a from a parent who simply does not care and feels entitled. As providers we get to meet some incredibly wonder families and children. However we also get to meet some of the most dense, uncaring, parents who feel their child puts them out. While I am sure you can't fathom putting your child somewhere where the provider feels she cannot in good faith keep your child safe, there are parents out there who simply don't care and are happy to not have to deal with the problem for X amount of hours each day.
This is so true. It is why I quit doing daycare the first time I did it. Some of the parents were over the top, and I didn't yet have backbone enough to even begin to stand up for myself. I still don't in some ways, but this group helps me when I don't.
Reply With Quote
  #154  
Old 07-18-2015, 09:19 PM
Febby's Avatar
Febby Febby is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 484
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baby Beluga View Post
Yes and no. You may be surprised to find out just how bossy, bullish and entitled some parents can get when they are told no. I believe some of it stems from the parent not truly understanding what it takes to keep a child safe and sometimes I think it is a from a parent who simply does not care and feels entitled. As providers we get to meet some incredibly wonder families and children. However we also get to meet some of the most dense, uncaring, parents who feel their child puts them out. While I am sure you can't fathom putting your child somewhere where the provider feels she cannot in good faith keep your child safe, there are parents out there who simply don't care and are happy to not have to deal with the problem for X amount of hours each day.
Yup. Working in centers, I've seen multiple children whose parents decided not to bother telling the center about their child's allergies. And then when we called them, they said "Oh, yeah, she's allergic to _______. Didn't we tell you?" And then they get annoyed when we make them pick up their now sick child.
Reply With Quote
  #155  
Old 07-19-2015, 05:23 AM
Play Care's Avatar
Play Care Play Care is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 6,609
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by momofapreschooler View Post
As a parent of a child with an allergy, I can attest that it does take a TON of time. Perhaps I am interpreting ADA incorrectly (and honestly for a home preschool I did not think it would apply), but because I know the lengths we go to in order to keep my child safe, I cannot imagine that a home provider with other children present could do it except in the most unusual of circumstances.

Those who have been providers for a long time...is it uncommon for a parent to try to force you to keep a child that you feel you cannot care for safely?
Sadly, no it's not uncommon.

In addition, Home providers are *strongly encouraged* by licensing in most states to make their environments friendly for *all* kids... I've gotten the impression from most of my classes/trainings that there very few situations in which we would be allowed to say we can't meet the child's needs. Home providers don't get a free pass from following regs/laws because they work at home.

Right now in my care I have a child who is allergic to fish. Can't have fish of any kind - including tuna. Thankfully it's easy to manage and requires nothing major on my part. But - even though I've told parents that we do have some allergies in care I've still had parents trying to bring their own foods in. I've found that parents of kids without allergies are the worst because it feels as if they just don't care...
Reply With Quote
  #156  
Old 07-19-2015, 08:14 AM
Solandia's Avatar
Solandia Solandia is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 372
Default

I have no problem accommodating allergies, special needs, etc, as long as it is safe & appropriate to do so. I also require the parent to pay for my training for their child...I don't/refuse to do "parent training".

When it comes down to paying extra to keep their child safe, they won't do it.

To clear it up...I have had interviews for kids with mic-key buttons, type 1 diabetes (w & without insulin pumps), asthma, and food allergies. *I am comfortable dealing with these issues* Ok, not all at once, but one special care child at time isn't going to put me over the edge.

in each case, the parents were DELIGHTED that I would consider caring for their child, because, lets face it...many home daycares will NOT. But as soon as I said that I would require to take a class and be compensated for it....they ALL backed away....that the parents free training of "Its so easy to manage...Let me show you how it is done" isn't' enough for me.

My pedi group does trainings in ALL of the above for parents & providers. FREE, some ongoing trainings were $50-75 per series of 4 classes, but I did require $10/hr plus mileage for my evening(s) away from my family. So we are talking a max of $200 extra for their child, that the parent was unwilling to pay because they felt they shouldn't have to do so. And were offended that I wouldn't just take their "training" as gospel truth.

So I never got to the point of turning anyone away for not accommodating their child over peanuts...because the possible $200 was a barrier to my care. I would have a very difficult time providing care for a severe peanut allergy, and could never feel the child was 100% safe anywhere.
Reply With Quote
  #157  
Old 07-19-2015, 08:51 AM
Blackcat31's Avatar
Blackcat31 Blackcat31 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 19,604
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by momofapreschooler View Post
I can understand why a doctor would write this for a toddler with diabetes, as they are notoriously picky and if they have hypoglycemia, then it is a good snack, but there are alternatives for adults (soy butter, sunbutter, etc.), so I would be surprised if your physician actually writes such a note for a grown woman. I think is also makes a difference if you are a Type 1 diabetic (make no insulin at all, as most young children with diabetes are) versus if you are type 2 diabetic. That being said, as a HOME daycare, I do not think you need to be nut free and do not think you need a note. If you feel you cannot safely accommodate a serious allergy, as a sole provider in a business run out of your own home, that should be enough.
Quote:
Originally Posted by momofapreschooler View Post
Again, I do not think a home daycare needs to accommodate a child with an allergy if they are not comfortable doing so. The provider must be able to safely care for all children in her care...simply that they enjoy nuts in the home is enough in my opinion, being the only adult present is enough in my opinion, being too far remote from EMS is enough in my opinion, but it does seem like having an adult with diabetes say that PB is the only thing that will work to stabilize their blood sugar is not accurate.
I am assuming the discomfort many home providers have is with all life-threatening food allergies (except maybe seafood) and not just peanut allergies. .
My DH is a Type 1 diabetic. Diagnosed at age 37 (if that makes a difference)

His Dr IS the one that "prescribed" peanut M&M's for those times in which he has low blood sugar. (My DH has had episodes where he went as low as 23) Peanut M&M's do the trick fantastically. For him, there are no other alternatives.

As I mentioned in another thread he could eat another substitute but with severe side effects. He can't have fruit with citrus (due to interactions with other medications he takes) and can't just eat candy or glucose tablets as they are nothing but sugar (he has some pretty severe digestive reactions when he eats sugar) and although crackers/breads etc are carbs they are slow acting and as you know, time is important when dealing with diabetes and low blood sugars.

For some reason Peanut M&M's are the magic potion and we have found nothing that matches it's swiftness in raising his blood sugar AND maintaining it until his next meal/snack without the severe side effects those other alternatives have.

So yes, in an essence Peanut M&M's ARE the ONLY option for him.

Just as peanut allergies are protected by the ADA so is diabetes and my DH should not HAVE to find an alternative simply because a parent insists that he does or "thinks" he has other alternatives.

Quote:
Originally Posted by momofapreschooler View Post
If that is the argument that the provider is using to turn away kids with allergies, them what about milk, soy, wheat, egg and other life-threatening allergies? No reputable medical doctor is going to say you need all of those for emergency management of diabetes.

I'm kind of insulted that someone thinks a provider would go to such lengths to deny care as I was the one that initially brought up the topic of NEEDING Peanut M&M's (therefore making it impossible to take on a child with peanut allergies) and I did NOT make that statement to give others an "out" or "excuse" to take kids with peanut allergies.

I made the statement because in my DH's case, it is 100% accurate and his Dr (a reputable one) will back that up medically. NOT because it is easiest or partially true but because in my DH's case...it IS true and his medical need (also protected by the ADA) does not have to take a back seat to a parent with a child with peanut allergies insisting their child is enrolled in my program.

I have zero issues accommodating a child with allergies provided that I am capable of doing so. In the case of peanut allergies I am NOT and do not feel I should have to.

FWIW, I DO currently have a child with wheat, egg, dairy and fish allergies. He has been part of my program for almost 2 years now. I have zero issues accommodating him. It does not in any way, conflict with any one else's medical conditions.
Reply With Quote
  #158  
Old 07-19-2015, 06:46 PM
LittleTikes's Avatar
LittleTikes LittleTikes is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Indiana
Posts: 21
Default

Many years ago, I took a child with various food allergies; including one to peanuts. My daycare went peanut-free and I thought I was pretty vigilant, but in the evening, we went back to our regular home life. One evening, my daughter was eating peanut butter something and had it on her hands. She then, managed to smear a small amount on one of our sofa tables. Guess who came in the next morning and managed to touch the exact spot that had the peanut butter smear? I felt terrible and had to play detective to even figure out what had happened. After that, I could not guarantee safety because we were not a peanut-free private home. It's just not worth the risk, when there are safer options.
Reply With Quote
  #159  
Old 07-23-2015, 12:47 PM
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

People can get food allergies at any age. Sometimes mid 20's others into 40's. I have nut free family child care. All children wash hands when they arrive. There are no peanuts or pine cone activities. I also have DC children w eggs and milk allergies. No big deal. Sorry, it was such an issue. You were not the right provider for her.
Reply With Quote
  #160  
Old 07-23-2015, 01:16 PM
Rockgirl's Avatar
Rockgirl Rockgirl is online now
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 2,178
Default

OP, did the mom finally stop trying to contact you?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
allergy, allergy policy

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Peanut Allergy roxy1 Daycare Center and Family Home Forum 19 04-03-2014 08:43 AM
Nut Allergy Question childcaremom Daycare Center and Family Home Forum 28 02-19-2014 05:05 PM
Growing Out Of A Milk Protein Allergy... blandino Daycare Center and Family Home Forum 9 02-06-2014 07:30 PM
Peanut Butter Celery Sticks Abigail Daycare Menus, Breakfast, Lunch and Snack Ideas 4 01-02-2011 01:25 PM
Any Of Your Dcks Have A Peanut Allergy? SunflowerMama Daycare Center and Family Home Forum 15 12-13-2010 11:47 AM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:37 PM.



Daycare.com         Find A Daycare         List Your Daycare         Toys & Products                 About Us

Daycare.com
Please read our Disclaimer before continuing.

Topics pertain mainly to the following States:

Alabama Alaska Arizona Arkansas California Colorado Connecticut Delaware District of Columbia Florida Georgia Hawaii Idaho Illinois Indiana Iowa Kansas Kentucky Louisiana Maine Maryland Massachusetts Michigan Minnesota Mississippi Missouri Montana Nebraska Nevada New Hampshire New Jersey New Mexico New York North Carolina North Dakota Ohio Oklahoma Oregon Pennsylvania Rhode Island South Carolina South Dakota Tennessee Texas Utah Vermont Virginia Washington West Virginia Wisconsin Wyoming