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  #1  
Old 12-10-2015, 05:53 PM
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Default Pack n Plays Are Not Safe for Sleeping????

I was recently awarded a health and safety grant through First 5 of California. As part of the grant process, someone (a registered nurse) came out and completed a safety assessment.

The assessor recommended replacing my pack n play with a collapsible wooden crib, which they would pay for. I have done a search but can't find any research to support their claim. Has anyone else heard this?? If so, any links to articles on the subject?
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Old 12-10-2015, 06:11 PM
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KY regulations don't allow PNPs. Unfortunately, I've never got a clear answer on why. One trainer once told me that she thought it was due to issues with providers not setting them up appropriately, but she wasn't sure.

Did the assessor tell you what the safety concerns were? Aside from child care in my state, I've always been told they were fine for sleeping.
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Old 12-10-2015, 06:28 PM
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KY regulations don't allow PNPs. Unfortunately, I've never got a clear answer on why. One trainer once told me that she thought it was due to issues with providers not setting them up appropriately, but she wasn't sure.

Did the assessor tell you what the safety concerns were? Aside from child care in my state, I've always been told they were fine for sleeping.
She could not cite any research, just said they are unsafe for sleeping. I used pack n plays with my own kids. I keep up on safe sleep practices and had never heard anything about them being unsafe. I'm wondering if this is just her opinion or it is based on fact.
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Old 12-11-2015, 07:21 AM
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She could not cite any research, just said they are unsafe for sleeping. I used pack n plays with my own kids. I keep up on safe sleep practices and had never heard anything about them being unsafe. I'm wondering if this is just her opinion or it is based on fact.
From my understanding when they over hauled the safety rules for cribs ~ providers needed to have cribs with the safety certificates showing the cribs were manufactured after June of 2011 (??? I cant remember the exact date) we were told that safety rules in regards to PNP would be coming sometime soon.

So far we have not been told of any specific rules/regulation changes but I have a few parents that work in our county DHS offices and several have said that pretty soon only mini cribs or wooden cribs would be approved.

I don't know your rules in CA but I am betting since the crib thing affected all of us in every state, I am guessing that it's a common "I've heard" piece of info being passed around every state.
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Old 12-11-2015, 07:45 AM
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I know here they changed the regs to not allow pnp's for centers and we were told that the regs for fcc would be coming soon as well.
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Old 12-11-2015, 08:29 AM
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Personally, I HATE cribs for daycare children because they are always getting their arms and legs through the slots and then trying to roll over without pulling their arm or leg back in through the slot. I am constantly worried that they are going to sprain or damage their arms and legs when they do that.

Pack and plays' sides are so short that many children can climb out of them. Technically, they are legal in my area for kids up to age 2. But they want us to try to get kids to sleep on mats or sleeping bags on the floor at age 1 if possible to keep them from climbing out of the pack and play. I don't know why they are not legal in your area for sleeping. But the kids climbing out of them might be one reason.
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Old 12-11-2015, 09:06 AM
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The reason is because pack n plays are not easily sanitized. I used to work as a regulator and non-porous surfaces (wood) can and should be sprayed down regularly with a chlorine solution to disinfect. Porous surfaces must be sanitized properly in a washing machine with a diluted bleach solution. Since you cannot break down the soft porous sides of a pack n play to wash in a washing machine, it is not easily cleanable. For example, if a child is infected with norovirus and he vomits during nap time on the side of the crib, how would someone properly clean and sanitize the mesh sides? I suppose you could hose it down outside and spray it with a chlorine solution, but it's not easily cleanable. Let's say it happened at the first nap and there is a different child coming in the afternoon who needs that crib for sleeping. How would you have it properly cleaned in time?

I understand why so many use them, but I personally don't like using them with the exception of my own children when we are on a trip. I much prefer wooden cribs that can be cleaned easily. Just my 2 cents
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Old 12-11-2015, 09:11 AM
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The reason is because pack n plays are not easily sanitized. I used to work as a regulator and non-porous surfaces (wood) can and should be sprayed down regularly with a chlorine solution to disinfect. Porous surfaces must be sanitized properly in a washing machine with a diluted bleach solution. Since you cannot break down the soft porous sides of a pack n play to wash in a washing machine, it is not easily cleanable. For example, if a child is infected with norovirus and he vomits during nap time on the side of the crib, how would someone properly clean and sanitize the mesh sides? I suppose you could hose it down outside and spray it with a chlorine solution, but it's not easily cleanable. Let's say it happened at the first nap and there is a different child coming in the afternoon who needs that crib for sleeping. How would you have it properly cleaned in time?

I understand why so many use them, but I personally don't like using them with the exception of my own children when we are on a trip. I much prefer wooden cribs that can be cleaned easily. Just my 2 cents
I fold mine up and soak them in diluted bleach water in my bath tub, and then let them air dry. I also use Lysol and Clorox wipes at the end of every day, as only one child uses a certain pack and play each day.
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Old 12-11-2015, 09:26 AM
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Yes, they can be cleaned, but not easily. Properly cleaning a wooden crib, vinyl nap mat or cot can be accomplished in 10 minutes. Cleaning bedding from start to finish can be done in 2 hours max. Soaking a pack n play and letting it dry takes at least 8 hours. If a child got into his poopy diaper during morning nap and smeared the feces on the mesh (it happens), it would not be properly cleaned by afternoon nap.
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Old 12-11-2015, 10:11 AM
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OP are you in CA? I haven't heard anything at all about pack n plays being unsafe. I just had an inspection last week and my analyst didn't mention anything about the pack n play that I have. We have a pilot QRIS program going on right now and there is no restrictions on pack n plays for them either, and they're pretty strict.
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Old 12-11-2015, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa View Post
OP are you in CA? I haven't heard anything at all about pack n plays being unsafe. I just had an inspection last week and my analyst didn't mention anything about the pack n play that I have. We have a pilot QRIS program going on right now and there is no restrictions on pack n plays for them either, and they're pretty strict.
Same here! The only restriction we have is the actual PNP fitted mat that comes with the PNP has to be used with the it. BUT nothing would surprise me anymore when it comes to licensing/QRIS!

Last edited by Annalee; 12-11-2015 at 10:31 AM. Reason: added
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Old 12-11-2015, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by spedmommy4 View Post
I was recently awarded a health and safety grant through First 5 of California. As part of the grant process, someone (a registered nurse) came out and completed a safety assessment.

The assessor recommended replacing my pack n play with a collapsible wooden crib, which they would pay for. I have done a search but can't find any research to support their claim. Has anyone else heard this?? If so, any links to articles on the subject?
This is the only info I was able to find and its dated Spring 2013

Page 6 addresses Pack and Play standards
http://ccld.ca.gov/res/pdf/CCUpdateSpring2013.pdf
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Old 12-11-2015, 10:59 AM
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This is the only info I was able to find and its dated Spring 2013

Page 6 addresses Pack and Play standards
http://ccld.ca.gov/res/pdf/CCUpdateSpring2013.pdf
I remember this update ... at this point all current pack n plays were compliant to these standards, it was the older one's that people were buying used that didn't always meet standards. When this update came out I bought 2 new pack n plays (I needed to anyway). I hope we don't see any more updates that make it so that I have to use a folding crib or mini crib ... I don't have the room for that
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Old 12-11-2015, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by spud912 View Post
The reason is because pack n plays are not easily sanitized. I used to work as a regulator and non-porous surfaces (wood) can and should be sprayed down regularly with a chlorine solution to disinfect. Porous surfaces must be sanitized properly in a washing machine with a diluted bleach solution. Since you cannot break down the soft porous sides of a pack n play to wash in a washing machine, it is not easily cleanable. For example, if a child is infected with norovirus and he vomits during nap time on the side of the crib, how would someone properly clean and sanitize the mesh sides? I suppose you could hose it down outside and spray it with a chlorine solution, but it's not easily cleanable. Let's say it happened at the first nap and there is a different child coming in the afternoon who needs that crib for sleeping. How would you have it properly cleaned in time?

I understand why so many use them, but I personally don't like using them with the exception of my own children when we are on a trip. I much prefer wooden cribs that can be cleaned easily. Just my 2 cents
I know this isn't possible everywhere, but I purchase a $30 pack n play for EVERY child that starts. No one ever uses another child's pack n play. When the child leaves, I usually turn their pnp into an outdoor one, sometimes I send it with the child, sometimes I sell it.
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Old 12-11-2015, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa View Post
I remember this update ... at this point all current pack n plays were compliant to these standards, it was the older one's that people were buying used that didn't always meet standards. When this update came out I bought 2 new pack n plays (I needed to anyway). I hope we don't see any more updates that make it so that I have to use a folding crib or mini crib ... I don't have the room for that
My state hasn't regulated PNP...yet... but when they do I am going to have to go with the mini wooden cribs because I do NOT want a full sized crib and I refuse to buy any of these newer PNP's as they are so tiny and disposable-like.

I have an older Graco (like 15+ yrs older) and 2 of the JMason's that NannyDe talks about and I LOVE LOVE LOVE them and totally understand why she loves them so.
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Old 12-11-2015, 11:11 AM
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My state hasn't regulated PNP...yet... but when they do I am going to have to go with the mini wooden cribs because I do NOT want a full sized crib and I refuse to buy any of these newer PNP's as they are so tiny and disposable-like.

I have an older Graco (like 15+ yrs older) and 2 of the JMason's that NannyDe talks about and I LOVE LOVE LOVE them and totally understand why she loves them so.
Jmason... the best playpens ever invited times infinity
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Old 12-11-2015, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa View Post
I remember this update ... at this point all current pack n plays were compliant to these standards, it was the older one's that people were buying used that didn't always meet standards. When this update came out I bought 2 new pack n plays (I needed to anyway). I hope we don't see any more updates that make it so that I have to use a folding crib or mini crib ... I don't have the room for that
I don't have the money or room! It would really suck for this area. I get tons of calls for infants.
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Old 12-11-2015, 11:16 AM
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I know this isn't possible everywhere, but I purchase a $30 pack n play for EVERY child that starts. No one ever uses another child's pack n play. When the child leaves, I usually turn their pnp into an outdoor one, sometimes I send it with the child, sometimes I sell it.
I wonder if they would still say it isn't sanitary....
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Old 12-11-2015, 11:17 AM
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My state hasn't regulated PNP...yet... but when they do I am going to have to go with the mini wooden cribs because I do NOT want a full sized crib and I refuse to buy any of these newer PNP's as they are so tiny and disposable-like.

I have an older Graco (like 15+ yrs older) and 2 of the JMason's that NannyDe talks about and I LOVE LOVE LOVE them and totally understand why she loves them so.
I have an Eddie Bauer one and it is high quality. The new ones are way different.
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Old 12-11-2015, 11:21 AM
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I have an Eddie Bauer one and it is high quality. The new ones are way different.
I had an Eddie Bauer one that was older too and it was really nice but it was recalled because of the bassinet attachment that came with it. I never used that part but my licensor said that since the recall didn't specifically say to toss the bassinet and use the other part but instead just listed the whole PNP (model #) I couldn't use it anymore.
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Old 12-11-2015, 11:22 AM
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This may sound stupid but how can you tell if it meets standards? Is there a seal of approval?
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Old 12-11-2015, 11:24 AM
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I had an Eddie Bauer one that was older too and it was really nice but it was recalled because of the bassinet attachment that came with it. I never used that part but my licensor said that since the recall didn't specifically say to toss the bassinet and use the other part but instead just listed the whole PNP (model #) I couldn't use it anymore.
Oh man! I don't use the bassinet part either... Do you know where to find out recalls?
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Old 12-11-2015, 11:25 AM
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I have an older Graco (like 15+ yrs older) and 2 of the JMason's that NannyDe talks about and I LOVE LOVE LOVE them and totally understand why she loves them so.
I LOVE THESE!! Even if they are old I don't think they go against any of the standards for P n P's (as far as I could remember). I know a couple of old school providers in the area that have them and I've already called dibs on them if they ever retired
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Old 12-11-2015, 11:26 AM
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This may sound stupid but how can you tell if it meets standards? Is there a seal of approval?
For cribs they are by law required to come with safety standard certificates of compliance. For PNP's they aren't yet regulated by the CPSC but when they are, they'll come with those same certificates.

As for regulations per state, it seems each state has their own (if they have any standards about them at all) otherwise the CPSC has an article about it here:
http://www.cpsc.gov/en/regulations-l...psc-2011-0064/
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Old 12-11-2015, 11:28 AM
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Oh man! I don't use the bassinet part either... Do you know where to find out recalls?
You can go to this site and use the model # and search to see if it's on the recall list.

http://www.cpsc.gov/en/Recalls/
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Old 12-11-2015, 11:32 AM
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You can go to this site and use the model # and search to see if it's on the recall list.

http://www.cpsc.gov/en/Recalls/
Thank you!
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Old 12-11-2015, 11:34 AM
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Jmason... the best playpens ever invited times infinity
I have a JMason, but not sure it is the ones you are talking about. It is slightly smaller than most PNP and I love it too. The sleep mat velcros to the PNP. Is yours like this?
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Old 12-11-2015, 11:34 AM
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I know this isn't possible everywhere, but I purchase a $30 pack n play for EVERY child that starts. No one ever uses another child's pack n play. When the child leaves, I usually turn their pnp into an outdoor one, sometimes I send it with the child, sometimes I sell it.
I only take 18m+, IF a child WILL NOT stay on a mat (and I give it a good 4 weeks) then I buy a new PNP. I use it exclusively for that child, sanitize it weekly (which is admittedly a PITB) if a child does something horrendous to it, it's cheap enough that I just toss it.
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Old 12-11-2015, 11:35 AM
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You can go to this site and use the model # and search to see if it's on the recall list.

http://www.cpsc.gov/en/Recalls/
I'm good! Woot woot
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Old 12-11-2015, 11:36 AM
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I'm good! Woot woot
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Old 12-11-2015, 11:38 AM
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I have a JMason, but not sure it is the ones you are talking about. It is slightly smaller than most PNP and I love it too. The sleep mat velcros to the PNP. Is yours like this?
No "V" folding rails. Rail sides store in sleeves under the bottom. Folds down flat verses into a rectangular shape like most PNP's. Mattress is thick (no board or fiber-board inside) and velcros to the bottom.

Mine look like this

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Old 12-11-2015, 11:42 AM
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No "V" folding rails. Rail sides store in sleeves under the bottom. Folds down flat verses into a rectangular shape like most PNP's. Mattress is thick (no board or fiber-board inside) and velcros to the bottom.

Mine look like this

Yep, this is like mine, but I can't find them any more so was just wondering...i only have one but would like another.
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Old 12-11-2015, 12:06 PM
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Yep, this is like mine, but I can't find them any more so was just wondering...i only have one but would like another.
They no longer make them.
I think they stopped in 1998 but I don't know the date for sure...

Like Nan, I just buy them any time I see them on CL or E-bay or garage sales.
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Old 12-11-2015, 12:07 PM
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They no longer make them.
I think they stopped in 1998 but I don't know the date for sure...

Like Nan, I just buy them any time I see them on CL or E-bay or garage sales.
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Old 12-11-2015, 02:24 PM
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I haven't heard of any changes here. PNPs are still legal.
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Old 12-11-2015, 02:34 PM
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I still use PNP's when I have that age. I have two and will never have more than two in them (none right now except my 2yr grandson who is climbing out I think I am going to transition him when he is here). With them not in use much I can clean them, I have the drying time. But if I had more in them I would probably by more so they could have their own.
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Old 12-11-2015, 03:29 PM
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I keep seeing wooden cribs.... Will they not allow metal ones?
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Old 12-11-2015, 03:34 PM
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I keep seeing wooden cribs.... Will they not allow metal ones?
Hmm never even heard of a metal one before.
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Old 12-11-2015, 03:56 PM
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Pack n plays are still legal here. I just happened to apply for a special grant. They grantor isn't requiring me to replace it; the assessor strongly recommended it. I only take one infant at a time and she is the only one that uses the pack n play. The assessor was specifically concerned about safety and didn't mention sanitation. The little girl is 9 months old so there is no way she could crawl out. (I transition kids at 12 months)
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Old 12-11-2015, 07:55 PM
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Hmm never even heard of a metal one before.
My parents had a metal crib that they used for one (or two??) of my cousins that they would have bought in the early 80's. A quick Google search shows me that you can still buy metal cribs. I think they're allowed here, but I'm actually not sure. I have no idea about other states.
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Old 12-11-2015, 08:33 PM
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http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_no...+stowaway+crib

They come with the CoC. We call them baby jails.
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Old 12-15-2015, 09:27 AM
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Marriot uses washable covers.
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Old 12-15-2015, 04:00 PM
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Pack n plays are still legal here. I just happened to apply for a special grant. They grantor isn't requiring me to replace it; the assessor strongly recommended it. I only take one infant at a time and she is the only one that uses the pack n play. The assessor was specifically concerned about safety and didn't mention sanitation. The little girl is 9 months old so there is no way she could crawl out. (I transition kids at 12 months)
This is where we run into problems. I have had a couple of "recommendations" from analysts. At first, I thought that they were actual licensing requirements until I did my due diligence. I have read here that other providers have had similar experiences.

Recommendations can be taken under advisement. Apply them or not, if they aren't requirements, then there is no harm.
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Old 12-17-2015, 06:23 AM
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I have all metal, evacuation cribs, now. PNP's are no longer "recommended". They will net you a "Discussed proper, safe, infant sleep environments. Improvement plan recommended." statement on your public inspection record if you choose to keep using them.

So, even though legal, using PNP's make you look less than "Quality" on your public State inspection page.

** Minimum 2 inch mattress required. The three inch mattresses compress to meet the minimum in under a year, so buying a 2 inch means replacing yearly. Yes, they come in with rulers.
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Old 12-17-2015, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Cat Herder View Post
I have all metal, evacuation cribs, now. PNP's are no longer "recommended". They will net you a "Discussed proper, safe, infant sleep environments. Improvement plan recommended." statement on your public inspection record if you choose to keep using them.

So, even though legal, using PNP's make you look less than "Quality" on your public State inspection page.

** Minimum 2 inch mattress required. The three inch mattresses compress to meet the minimum in under a year, so buying a 2 inch means replacing yearly. Yes, they come in with rulers.
What state is that? CA?

ETA: I haven't seen that here yet, not that I'd be surprised to see rulers. My classroom got a violation on our last inspection for having some tape residue on the wall.
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Old 12-18-2015, 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Febby View Post
What state is that? CA?

ETA: I haven't seen that here yet, not that I'd be surprised to see rulers. My classroom got a violation on our last inspection for having some tape residue on the wall.
Definitely not CA, at least not for family childcare. In California, the regulations for FCC are really lax.
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Old 12-18-2015, 10:56 PM
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That is crazy. Never hear that before. PNP's are so updated now. I can't believe they would think that wooden ones are better.
Deb
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Old 12-20-2015, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Febby View Post
What state is that? CA?

ETA: I haven't seen that here yet, not that I'd be surprised to see rulers. My classroom got a violation on our last inspection for having some tape residue on the wall.
Not here in NYS either. I've had inspections in the last year and the PNP's haven't even received mention. So long as they are in good shape (no holes, dirty, etc) and have no recalls, etc they've been fine. But we can only have 2 under 2, so I'm thinking they think we'll just football hold the babies to evacuate. I can see in centers requiring cribs that can be rolled out the door as they can have 4 infants under 2 per adult (I believe)
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Old 12-21-2015, 04:24 PM
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When I had my inspection last Dec the analyst had me show her how they break down and if they're made after 2011. The whole V vs U closure is the big concern because of PNPs collapsing and entrapping babies with the V type.
One thing I can't stand is when they can't cite a single piece of information or source for the recommendation.
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Old 12-22-2015, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Thriftylady View Post
Hmm never even heard of a metal one before.
I have this one. Super easy to wipe down and you pretty much can't damage it (kids chewing, etc).

Hmm... It won't let me add the link... If you search metal crib on amazon, is the LA deluxe holiday one
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  #51  
Old 12-30-2015, 11:56 PM
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Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa View Post
OP are you in CA? I haven't heard anything at all about pack n plays being unsafe. I just had an inspection last week and my analyst didn't mention anything about the pack n play that I have. We have a pilot QRIS program going on right now and there is no restrictions on pack n plays for them either, and they're pretty strict.
This^ I am in CA and I've never had any issues with using a PnP. I'm wondering if it's just her personal opinion but then, if they would pay for you to get them then why not? Personally I would have loved to have some wooden cribs but space and mobility were an issue for me (military, we move a lot) so I went with the PnP. I care for infants only so each infant has his/her own PnP so keeping them clean hasn't been an issue for me really.
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Old 01-02-2016, 07:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spedmommy4 View Post
I was recently awarded a health and safety grant through First 5 of California. As part of the grant process, someone (a registered nurse) came out and completed a safety assessment.

The assessor recommended replacing my pack n play with a collapsible wooden crib, which they would pay for. I have done a search but can't find any research to support their claim. Has anyone else heard this?? If so, any links to articles on the subject?
I am from CA and I never heard of that issue. My licensing agent told me if you are not sure with the issues always refer to our CA state regulation or call your nearest licensing agent. Even licensing agents made mistakes too. I use pack n play in my daycare too as long as no V folding rails, which could cause injuries for children. So far, since I opened my daycare a year ago. I have no issues using pack n play. It did not mention in our CA regulation that pack n play are not allowed in daycare. I hope that helps...
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Old 01-04-2016, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
I know this isn't possible everywhere, but I purchase a $30 pack n play for EVERY child that starts.
Where do you get a new PnP for $30?

They are hard to clean but I use a separate PnP for each child. Id on' have money to buy or room to keep a bunch of wooden cribs.
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Old 01-04-2016, 06:28 PM
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Where do you get a new PnP for $30?

They are hard to clean but I use a separate PnP for each child. Id on' have money to buy or room to keep a bunch of wooden cribs.
I've bought them on Amazon.com and Walmart.com. Both sites right now are at $38.88-I wonder if that's going to be the new rock bottom price? http://www.amazon.com/Graco-Pack-Pla...=pack+and+play
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Old 01-06-2016, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Annalee View Post
Yep, this is like mine, but I can't find them any more so was just wondering...i only have one but would like another.
This is the scaled down very last generation they made before they shut down their kids division.

They were way smaller and had all four mesh sides. I have two of them for newborns. Easier on the back.
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