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  #1  
Old 07-27-2012, 10:57 AM
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Default There Is No Hope.....

Conversation overheard between the kids at lunch:

DCB 1 (9yrs) When my mom gets the money on her card, we're going to the movies.

DCB 2(6yrs) What does that mean?

DCB 1 My mom gets money put on a special card and when it gets there, we go do special stuff like movies, and swimming and skiing and get fun stuff......

He's talking about his mothers Horizon card....her welfare card.

Nice to see my tax dollars providing life's necessities for the needy.........she bought a new iphone with the last deposit.
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Old 07-27-2012, 11:04 AM
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They can use it any way they like? You mean there are no restrictions on how it can be spent? Thats kinda of sad. We can't afford to go to the movies and we aren't on welfare ! Seems like there are a lot of people out there scamming the system. I have seen people on welfare with nice cars and blackberry's, etc. It's horrible !!
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Old 07-27-2012, 11:09 AM
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They can use it any way they like? You mean there are no restrictions on how it can be spent? Thats kinda of sad. We can't afford to go to the movies and we aren't on welfare ! Seems like there are a lot of people out there scamming the system. I have seen people on welfare with nice cars and blackberry's, etc. It's horrible !!
In Wisconsin, they did away with "welfare" for that very reason. You can get food stamps, you can get childcare assistance or rental assistance, but you almost never get cash. Of course, many people still find ways around that, and there is a real problem because there are actually non-food items people need. Like toilet paper or diapers. So they are motivated to try to sell their food that they get from food stamps so that they can buy those items...and a few more.

I don't know what the answer is, but there's got to be a creative solution! Chances are, if anyone came up with it the politicians would argue it to death so long, it would never happen. If it did, it would be in affect for about 6 months, then get tied up in appeals and court rulings. sheesh..
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Old 07-27-2012, 11:14 AM
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UGH! One day care family that I had in the past is the SOLE REASON I no longer accept subsidized care. Brand new iphone, new car, beautiful clothes, food stamps and free day care.
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Old 07-27-2012, 11:22 AM
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Could it possibly be a child support card?? Or maybe even just her debit card? Maybe she explained it to him that way, "mommy doesn't have any money in the bank so I can't use my card, but when my check is deposited there will be money on the card again" or something like that...

I know even the Children's Hunger Alliance food program now pays their providers with a debit card...so maybe its not what you think??
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Old 07-27-2012, 11:24 AM
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You know why they post signs in animal parks telling you not to feed the animals? They would become dependant on handouts and not know how to make it on their own! ....... ah the irony.
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Old 07-27-2012, 11:34 AM
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You know why they post signs in animal parks telling you not to feed the animals? They would become dependant on handouts and not know how to make it on their own! ....... ah the irony.
i agree. I am sure there are people out there that desperately need the help but I dont know of a single person on welfare that is not milking the system. Its really sad and maybe it is just the people that I know but still.....

did you know that welfare was originally created where you use what you need temporarily and then PAY BACK the services when you can? My mom had 9 children (thats right people, nine!) and put herself through college and paid back what she had received during the time that she did have to take assistance.

it was never meant to be a way of life, just a way up. but a lot of people do not have the motivation to use it in an appropriate way.

I can think of several moms right now, that timed TTC having children around the services they would receive, it wasnt like these children were surprises and they needed help as single moms
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Old 07-27-2012, 11:50 AM
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i agree. I am sure there are people out there that desperately need the help but I dont know of a single person on welfare that is not milking the system. Its really sad and maybe it is just the people that I know but still.....

did you know that welfare was originally created where you use what you need temporarily and then PAY BACK the services when you can? My mom had 9 children (thats right people, nine!) and put herself through college and paid back what she had received during the time that she did have to take assistance.

it was never meant to be a way of life, just a way up. but a lot of people do not have the motivation to use it in an appropriate way.

I can think of several moms right now, that timed TTC having children around the services they would receive, it wasnt like these children were surprises and they needed help as single moms
yes, but it's also pretty much designed to keep people dependent. In our state, at least, you can't get childcare subsidy for time you are in college, for instance. Not even an associate's degree. You can be in an approved training program...like CNA. If you're a CNA, you'll probably still be eligible for childcare funding.

Once you make 1 cent more than whatever the cut-off is, you loose everything. Food stamps, childcare funding, scholarships for low income, scholarships for your kids to go to camp or learning programs, free lunch at school, and medical assistance. So, what's the incentive to get "off" the system? A few people do it, and then end up being worse off than when they were on it...

When I was newly divorced, I did apply for medical assistance, and my kids got free hot lunch. When I met my new hubby, I would have been better off NOT getting married. . His income put us over the limits. My kids would have been able to go to university programs free, not pay hot lunch at $50 a month per child, and we wouldn't have had to pay for family health insurance. oh well....
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Old 07-27-2012, 11:59 AM
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I have a daycare kid who gets her child support put onto a special debit card each month. The Dad hasn't paid in FOREVER... suddenly, she got $4000 on the card all at once. The girl has no idea about this card, but I bet there are parents who share more information than other parents do.

Perhaps he was talking about that?
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Old 07-27-2012, 12:03 PM
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Milwaukee county had a solution that worked pretty well, from what I understood. The people who were able had to work for their welfare money. They got "paid" below minimum wage and paid in welfare money. It was incentive for them to get a job and kept the city parks and streets really clean! Most of the jobs were picking up litter, cleaning park bathrooms, things like that. There was a lot of stink about it, but the program seemed good to me. I could understand that someone who had kids could not afford to work for welfare money, but single guys/women without kids or couples who were both on welfare certainly would be able to. I don't think the program is still in effect, because there were too many problems and too many politicians were against it.
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In Wisconsin, they did away with "welfare" for that very reason. You can get food stamps, you can get childcare assistance or rental assistance, but you almost never get cash. Of course, many people still find ways around that, and there is a real problem because there are actually non-food items people need. Like toilet paper or diapers. So they are motivated to try to sell their food that they get from food stamps so that they can buy those items...and a few more.

I don't know what the answer is, but there's got to be a creative solution! Chances are, if anyone came up with it the politicians would argue it to death so long, it would never happen. If it did, it would be in affect for about 6 months, then get tied up in appeals and court rulings. sheesh..
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Old 07-27-2012, 02:18 PM
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My dh said that he has a coworker that lived a better life living on welfare than her current state of affairs. She currently makes $50,000 a year before taxes and deductions plus child support.

I used to work in the regulatory field and frequently came across families with several children where nobody worked in the household. I can't say what their circumstances were, but I do know that they used food stamps and their housing was free. These families had new brand-name clothing, television with cable, the newest and latest video game systems, tons of newer toys for the kids, newer furniture, brand new cell phones, newer vehicles, etc. Again, I do not know all of their circumstances and they could have received a lot in the way of donations, but I do have to say that they had more "stuff" than we did (and my dh and I lived on 2 decent incomes and no children at the time).
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Old 07-27-2012, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Meeko View Post
Nice to see my tax dollars providing life's necessities for the needy.........she bought a new iphone with the last deposit.
The cards here are called EBT cards but are often refered to as "Everybody's Taxes Cards".

I had two DCM's last year who went to Disneyland for all of Spring Break.......both were on assistance (cash/food/child care and medical). One even left her 12 month old behind with grandma and grandma still brought him to daycare everyday.....all paid for by child care assistance too.

I have a client right now that is going on her 15th year of assistance. We have a 5 yr lifetime limit here but there are apparently loopholes that negate that rule.

I am all for a hand up but am getting really tired of the handout.

I can only provide for so many people and my tax dollars are not stretching very far anymore. FWIW~ I have NEVER been to Disneyland either.
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Old 07-27-2012, 08:14 PM
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I am all for a hand up but am getting really tired of the handout.

I can only provide for so many people and my tax dollars are not stretching very far anymore.
My husband was raised by a single mom who worked two jobs to provide for her two children. She refused to go on welfare, and always taught him to work for what you get. To this day, I am grateful for her example. My husband has a fabulous work ethic, and makes me very proud!
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Old 07-28-2012, 05:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meeko View Post
Conversation overheard between the kids at lunch:

DCB 1 (9yrs) When my mom gets the money on her card, we're going to the movies.

DCB 2(6yrs) What does that mean?

DCB 1 My mom gets money put on a special card and when it gets there, we go do special stuff like movies, and swimming and skiing and get fun stuff......

He's talking about his mothers Horizon card....her welfare card.

Nice to see my tax dollars providing life's necessities for the needy.........she bought a new iphone with the last deposit.
If it's on a card like that, the State has record of where the $$'s have been spent. There is no excuse for that sort of blatent frivolous spending.

It's time to start asking the officials why this is allowed.

Perhaps it's not the Welfare card but like someone else suggested something else set up for Child Support. Again.. cards are wonderfully trackable and it may be a system set up to get rid of the rotton eggs.
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Old 07-28-2012, 06:07 AM
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I didn't read all the comments, but how do we know it's not her paycheck direct deposited into mom's checking account, which therefor is used on her debit card?? Seems a bit rude of your to assume that it's a cash welfare card. Just my 2cents.
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Old 07-28-2012, 07:08 AM
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I didn't read all the comments, but how do we know it's not her paycheck direct deposited into mom's checking account, which therefor is used on her debit card?? Seems a bit rude of your to assume that it's a cash welfare card. Just my 2cents.
We didn't assume...OP said it was her Horizon card...welfare card
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Old 07-28-2012, 07:11 AM
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Our teen's first mother did not work for 14+ years. She spent her cash on her boyfriends and beer. Our teen went without proper food, clothing, etc.
Upon him moving in with us, we attempted to report the misuse (because it should have been cut off due to him no longer residing with her). We were unable to report it. It didn't get frozen until we went to court.

We were recently awarded CHIP for him (medicaid with a co-payment) and a couple of weeks later, I was sent a Medicaid card. I don't need Medicaid. Upon calling them to tell them to cancel the Medicaid for me, they refused. I told them that I would not be using it because I pay for my insurance with BCBS, but they said that was fine. Baffling.
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Old 07-28-2012, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
The cards here are called EBT cards but are often refered to as "Everybody's Taxes Cards".

I had two DCM's last year who went to Disneyland for all of Spring Break.......both were on assistance (cash/food/child care and medical). One even left her 12 month old behind with grandma and grandma still brought him to daycare everyday.....all paid for by child care assistance too.

I have a client right now that is going on her 15th year of assistance. We have a 5 yr lifetime limit here but there are apparently loopholes that negate that rule.

I am all for a hand up but am getting really tired of the handout.

I can only provide for so many people and my tax dollars are not stretching very far anymore. FWIW~ I have NEVER been to Disneyland either.
My teen's first mother has been on assistance for 18+ years at this point. I want to say it is closer to 30 years (based on what one of her four children, who is 30, told me). Though, it may be Church/religious institution assistance 30 years ago which transitioned to welfare.
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Old 07-28-2012, 08:01 AM
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That just makes me so mad. My husband lost his job a couple of weeks ago and since I only have a couple of part-time dck's right now we applied for assistance and I pray to God that we qualify for cash so we can get tp, baby wipes, dog food, that sort of thing! How can someone take advantage of something like that? If they have extra money to get living expenses why do they even need to be on welfare?! Ugh, just had to vent there, that made me mad. It's mortifying to me that we had to do this, but we had no choice, and you can sure as heck bet that once he gets a new job we won't be on it anymore!
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Old 07-28-2012, 08:55 AM
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That just makes me so mad. My husband lost his job a couple of weeks ago and since I only have a couple of part-time dck's right now we applied for assistance and I pray to God that we qualify for cash so we can get tp, baby wipes, dog food, that sort of thing! How can someone take advantage of something like that? If they have extra money to get living expenses why do they even need to be on welfare?! Ugh, just had to vent there, that made me mad. It's mortifying to me that we had to do this, but we had no choice, and you can sure as heck bet that once he gets a new job we won't be on it anymore!
Sent you a PM Let's just say, I know the feeling...
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Old 07-28-2012, 09:47 AM
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This is what I mean when I say entitlement syndrome. People who abuse the system because they think they are owed and God forbid they not get thier charity on time or thay are reporting peopl including the case workers. The clients I just let go are the same using the system for life instead of a leg up. My clients bragged about all they could get for free even used the free handouts as excuses for not having supplies.
"The kids dont have diapers today because the _(charity organization)___ didn't drop them off this week like they are supposed to". "The kids wont be there today because the damn welfare didnt put the money on my gas card yet so I have to call off work because I don't have gas in the car" (welfare -dhhs gives them a card they reload every month for gasoline!) When the kids were wearing capris in winter I told her they needed long pants her excuse "I have to take what _(charity organization)___ donates to me and that's what they gave me this month". When I complained about the kids shoes being so small toes were sticking out and the sole was peeling off she said "well I only get 2nd hand from goodwill and they dont have any in their size right now" I got fed up last yr with all the 2nd hand things that dont fit or had holes I went and bought them outfits and shoes. Kids dont have to have the best but it is nice for them to have something decent!
They still owe 2 months copay the subsidy doesnt pay but they can't afford it yet they have been seen at McDonalds eating. They have Marboro cigarettes and snuff. They brag about selling food stamps because they don't use them all becaue they "hit 6 churches every month for food donations".... The Govt helps them TOO much yet when my family member who held her job for 10 years got laid off and needed help last month she made $17.00 too much!?!

Oh and lets not forget because she was on a special working program she (and all others in that program) was given vouchers to use to get NEW furniture from ANY furniture store! She bought a living room suit and the kids have cracked beds the Dad got out of a dumpster!

Sorry this turned into a vent, this subject just hits a nerve with me.
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Old 07-28-2012, 09:58 AM
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Meeko, I think there is hope. Maybe these kids will have a better economic situation than their parents did and not have to rely on assistance. Its not those kids fault their parents needed help. I'd hate to assume these kids will grow up to also be on assistance, if that safety net even exists in the future. Maybe those kids will remember the help they received and "pay it forward" in their adulthood. Maybe I am just looking for the bright side here.

Dave, don't mean to come down on you, I know you are struggling in life too, but its just not kind to compare the needy to animals. Correct me if I am wrong, but on our judgement day, are we not first judged on if we fed the poor? Wasn't Jesus the advocate for the poor, the sick, the powerless and the downtrodden? I don't pretend to know scripture, but I did read the words in red in my family bible. Judge not, lest we be judged?

I think the whole debate over welfare belongs on the news/politics blogs. I try not to politicize anything having to do with children. I'm thinking Meeko was trying to make the point these kids are learning how to scam the state, not work very hard for things they want, grow up feeling "entitled". Perhaps. But maybe not. I know where the other posters are coming from, that it seems unfair and a waste of tax $$. Yes, there is abuse of the system. Yes,.sometimes we as providers see waste and abuse. But I feel it is the state's problem to ensure people aren't cheating and really do qualify, not ours. Our job is to treat children on assistance the same way we treat kids of the wealthy, without bias or judgement. (not directed at you Meeko) They are just kids, they didn't ask to be on assistance. Personally, as a provider who accepts state subsidy, I am just glad these kiddos are with me, and not being watched by some crappy boyfriend, or a grandparent who can't give good care sure to illness or.age, or some sub-par babysitterwho is barely providing basic supervision for the $10 a day they are getting paid. Maybe I am just a bleeding heart, but I truly feel sorry for the kids who didn't ask to be born into poverty. And I don't think any adult living on poverty enjoys telling their child they can't afford to do activities or get a toy because they can't afford it. I have been that parent in the past. No, not on assistance, but not having enough gas money to drive my kids to the free public beach. It sucks. I don't wish that on anyone. Ok, stepping down from soap box. Sorry, just feel strongly on the issue of children and poverty.
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Old 07-28-2012, 10:14 AM
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Meeko, I think there is hope. Maybe these kids will have a better economic situation than their parents did and not have to rely on assistance. Its not those kids fault their parents needed help. I'd hate to assume these kids will grow up to also be on assistance, if that safety net even exists in the future. Maybe those kids will remember the help they received and "pay it forward" in their adulthood. Maybe I am just looking for the bright side here.

Dave, don't mean to come down on you, I know you are struggling in life too, but its just not kind to compare the needy to animals. Correct me if I am wrong, but on our judgement day, are we not first judged on if we fed the poor? Wasn't Jesus the advocate for the poor, the sick, the powerless and the downtrodden? I don't pretend to know scripture, but I did read the words in red in my family bible. Judge not, lest we be judged?

I think the whole debate over welfare belongs on the news/politics blogs. I try not to politicize anything having to do with children. I'm thinking Meeko was trying to make the point these kids are learning how to scam the state, not work very hard for things they want, grow up feeling "entitled". Perhaps. But maybe not. I know where the other posters are coming from, that it seems unfair and a waste of tax $$. Yes, there is abuse of the system. Yes,.sometimes we as providers see waste and abuse. But I feel it is the state's problem to ensure people aren't cheating and really do qualify, not ours. Our job is to treat children on assistance the same way we treat kids of the wealthy, without bias or judgement. (not directed at you Meeko) They are just kids, they didn't ask to be on assistance. Personally, as a provider who accepts state subsidy, I am just glad these kiddos are with me, and not being watched by some crappy boyfriend, or a grandparent who can't give good care sure to illness or.age, or some sub-par babysitterwho is barely providing basic supervision for the $10 a day they are getting paid. Maybe I am just a bleeding heart, but I truly feel sorry for the kids who didn't ask to be born into poverty. And I don't think any adult living on poverty enjoys telling their child they can't afford to do activities or get a toy because they can't afford it. I have been that parent in the past. No, not on assistance, but not having enough gas money to drive my kids to the free public beach. It sucks. I don't wish that on anyone. Ok, stepping down from soap box. Sorry, just feel strongly on the issue of children and poverty.
ITA I actually treat the needy kids better as I do more for them simply because they do not get much. Just a couple months ago the same family who couldnt pay me because tehy have no money were at a festival. The mom was getting the dad a steak sandwich. I let it go and asked if the kids enjoyed the fest. He told me they want to ride and jump in the bounce house but we cant afford it. OK the steak sandwich you just got cost $10 and the kids can't have $1 to bounce? I took the kids for a ride on everything and they had a ball! Sure it cost me and I dont really have the extra but the smiles and laughter from the poor kids really over paid me! They talked about it for weeks!!

The kids are gone now I had to term for a serious issue and I miss them. I was trying so hard to hang on because I feel the same as you. When the kids are here they are safe, they are FED they are cleaned up and not sitting in filthy diapers etc. They have fun here and the learn. I have a soft spot in my heart for the needy especially kids. I just hate to see parents like theirs teaching them to expect handouts and get revenge if you dont get it. I hope the kids learned real love and real support here but they are so young I will never know sadly.
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Old 07-28-2012, 10:44 AM
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Pitter, you are truly a saint. You gave so much to those kids, and put up with so much from the parents. I bet those kids really appreciated all you did for them, even if the parents didn't. Thank you.for also providing love and stability to the kid. I know you treated themthe (the kids) with the dignity and respect they deserved. Are you still accepting subsidy kids? I hope so, and if you are, I hope you get appreciative and responsible parents. The parents you just got rif of, they were the poster children of abuse, selfishness and entitlement. They are exactly what is wrong with the system. But we shouldn't scrap the system. Maybe, someday, some politician will actually "eliminate fraud and abuse." They ALL SAY they will. They NEVER DO. Wasn't it Jedi Master Yoda who said "Try not. Do." ? May the Force be with you Pitter.
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Old 07-28-2012, 12:45 PM
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Pitter, you are truly a saint. You gave so much to those kids, and put up with so much from the parents. I bet those kids really appreciated all you did for them, even if the parents didn't. Thank you.for also providing love and stability to the kid. I know you treated themthe (the kids) with the dignity and respect they deserved. Are you still accepting subsidy kids? I hope so, and if you are, I hope you get appreciative and responsible parents. The parents you just got rif of, they were the poster children of abuse, selfishness and entitlement. They are exactly what is wrong with the system. But we shouldn't scrap the system. Maybe, someday, some politician will actually "eliminate fraud and abuse." They ALL SAY they will. They NEVER DO. Wasn't it Jedi Master Yoda who said "Try not. Do." ? May the Force be with you Pitter.
LOL You sound like my Son and all his Star wars talk!

Not a saint just a caring person. Thank you Sugar!

Yes always accepting subsidy. I have seen too many kids go without and I have seen many changes here. All it takes is some patience and quality time to make a dif. I just still hate that we can't save them all. I still see some of my old kids that are almost grown now and they say they miss me as much as I miss them so that's what makes it worth it. Have a great weekend!
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Old 07-29-2012, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by KEG123 View Post
I didn't read all the comments, but how do we know it's not her paycheck direct deposited into mom's checking account, which therefor is used on her debit card?? Seems a bit rude of your to assume that it's a cash welfare card. Just my 2cents.
The mom herself has often told the kids at pick up " Get your stuff! We're going to the pool....I got money on my Horizon card!"

What I found most sad...and why I made the post is that her kids think that's life and everyone gets it. They have learned that "Horizon card" means "blow money"

She gets a cash benefit every month. She can simply draw out the cash at any ATM...so no record of what it gets spent on.

She has 7 kids in my care. They all have season passes to the local ski resorts every year. We have a water park here called Seven peaks. They have season passes to there too.

She is often too lazy to transfer her day care money to me each month. Especially if the 1st is on a weekend. So she handed me her number and told me to transfer it. When you put in the number over the phone, a recorded voice tells you the benefits on the card.

For July: daycare $2315.......food stamps $997............cash allowance $752.
She also gets housing.

So she spends the $752 each month on whatever she wants. as her housing, utilities and food are well taken care of. Both her and her live-in boyfriend work also.
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Old 07-29-2012, 11:45 AM
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The mom herself has often told the kids at pick up " Get your stuff! We're going to the pool....I got money on my Horizon card!"

What I found most sad...and why I made the post is that her kids think that's life and everyone gets it. They have learned that "Horizon card" means "blow money"

She gets a cash benefit every month. She can simply draw out the cash at any ATM...so no record of what it gets spent on.

She has 7 kids in my care. They all have season passes to the local ski resorts every year. We have a water park here called Seven peaks. They have season passes to there too.

She is often too lazy to transfer her day care money to me each month. Especially if the 1st is on a weekend. So she handed me her number and told me to transfer it. When you put in the number over the phone, a recorded voice tells you the benefits on the card.

For July: daycare $2315.......food stamps $997............cash allowance $752.
She also gets housing.

So she spends the $752 each month on whatever she wants. as her housing, utilities and food are well taken care of. Both her and her live-in boyfriend work also.
Wow...just wow!
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Old 07-29-2012, 06:07 PM
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The mom herself has often told the kids at pick up " Get your stuff! We're going to the pool....I got money on my Horizon card!"

What I found most sad...and why I made the post is that her kids think that's life and everyone gets it. They have learned that "Horizon card" means "blow money"

She gets a cash benefit every month. She can simply draw out the cash at any ATM...so no record of what it gets spent on.

She has 7 kids in my care. They all have season passes to the local ski resorts every year. We have a water park here called Seven peaks. They have season passes to there too.

She is often too lazy to transfer her day care money to me each month. Especially if the 1st is on a weekend. So she handed me her number and told me to transfer it. When you put in the number over the phone, a recorded voice tells you the benefits on the card.

For July: daycare $2315.......food stamps $997............cash allowance $752.
She also gets housing.

So she spends the $752 each month on whatever she wants. as her housing, utilities and food are well taken care of. Both her and her live-in boyfriend work also.
UGH that's the situation I have had here, makes me sick literally! Def scamming the govt!
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Old 07-29-2012, 07:08 PM
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http://bostonherald.com/news/politic...by_legislature

I usually stay away from posts that can become heated but this issue upsets me to no end. Here is what's going on in our state with regard to EBT cards. I'm all for helping those in need but expecting tax payers to support people who then turn around and spend money they've been given on tattoos, guns, body piercing, jewelry, fines and bail, etc? No! It's just not right!
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Old 07-29-2012, 07:30 PM
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http://bostonherald.com/news/politic...by_legislature

I usually stay away from posts that can become heated but this issue upsets me to no end. Here is what's going on in our state with regard to EBT cards. I'm all for helping those in need but expecting tax payers to support people who then turn around and spend money they've been given on tattoos, guns, body piercing, jewelry, fines and bail, etc? No! It's just not right!
Wow I can't believe they can use their cards at those places! That is an outrage and i would be totally for that law to be passed cards can't be used there.

I know there is real need out there but also a lot of scamming too.

Zoe,
I understand were you are coming from too! My husband was diagnosed with Esophageal cancer at the beginning of summer he can no longer work. He physically is not able. WE applied for Social Security right away so we could get money well there is a 6 month waiting period! so yes SS says he is Disabled but we will not get paid until NOV 22. We have disconnected the cable, refinanced our house, cut every bill we could and still just don't have enough. We had to apply for snap(food stamps) just so we can keep going and get to Nov 22. Will we abuse it no we need that food. I loose all my kids but 2 in 2 weeks as school starts up. There are those of us out her that don't abuse it and really do need it!
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Old 07-30-2012, 11:20 AM
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Meeko, I think there is hope. Maybe these kids will have a better economic situation than their parents did and not have to rely on assistance. These kids are learning what they see, they are not learning that they have to work hard to get paid.Its not those kids fault their parents needed help. I'd hate to assume these kids will grow up to also be on assistance, if that safety net even exists in the future. Maybe those kids will remember the help they received and "pay it forward" in their adulthood. Maybe I am just looking for the bright side here. you have to have hope- but what I am seeing is parents raising children, that are living on the system, raising children that will live on the system- because why work when you can have it handed to you and have it better then if you worked hard at a job?

Dave, don't mean to come down on you, I know you are struggling in life too, but its just not kind to compare the needy to animals. Correct me if I am wrong, but on our judgement day, are we not first judged on if we fed the poor? Wasn't Jesus the advocate for the poor, the sick, the powerless and the downtrodden? I don't pretend to know scripture, but I did read the words in red in my family bible. Judge not, lest we be judged?I think Dave stated fact not judgement. It is true- if you keep feeding the animals they come to rely. If you keep handing out, people just sit back and rely on that and don't have any motivation except to have more kids. I am talking about abusers of the system. Not people that need a couple months of help to get back on the feet and be able to make it.

I think the whole debate over welfare belongs on the news/politics blogs. I try not to politicize anything having to do with children.Not addressing this problem is just sweeping it under the table. Our voices should be heard, that we want jobs that pay so that we don't have to have people on welfare anymore. I'm thinking Meeko was trying to make the point these kids are learning how to scam the state, not work very hard for things they want, grow up feeling "entitled". Perhaps. But maybe not. I know where the other posters are coming from, that it seems unfair and a waste of tax $$. Yes, there is abuse of the system. Yes,.sometimes we as providers see waste and abuse.Everyone see's waste and abuse. Nothing is done about it. Why should a cell phone be handed out that many can't afford. Why should all these extras be handed out. Companies want in on their share of the profits that is why! Welfare workers don't want to lose their jobs. There needs to be job creation for the middle to low class that pays so they don't need all these hand outs. One pay check should be enough to provide for a family, two for extras. But I feel it is the state's problem to ensure people aren't cheating and really do qualify, not ours. Our job is to treat children on assistance the same way we treat kids of the wealthy, without bias or judgement. I agree we she should treat all kids the same, they are kids, but we need to stop giving so much out and start creating paying jobs for all not just college educated. (not directed at you Meeko) They are just kids, they didn't ask to be on assistance. Personally, as a provider who accepts state subsidy, I am just glad these kiddos are with me, and not being watched by some crappy boyfriend, or a grandparent who can't give good care sure to illness or.age, or some sub-par babysitterwho is barely providing basic supervision for the $10 a day they are getting paid. Maybe I am just a bleeding heart, but I truly feel sorry for the kids who didn't ask to be born into poverty. Poverty should not be a word used for America. Welfare shouldn't either. If we are such a great nation we should get people off being dependent upon the system and want more then that for all.And I don't think any adult living on poverty enjoys telling their child they can't afford to do activities or get a toy because they can't afford it.I see it all the time, parents that put their own needs first before the kids. Crummy parents out there. I have been that parent in the past. No, not on assistance, but not having enough gas money to drive my kids to the free public beach. It sucks. It does suck and I think we have all been there at one time or another but I dodn't go looking for someone else to fix my issues. I get off my butt and make it happen, just as you did. So many, so so many just sit like coach potatoes letting life wonder on by and do nothing to better themselves off of assistance. I don't wish that on anyone. Ok, stepping down from soap box. Sorry, just feel strongly on the issue of children and poverty.
I am not talking of people that use assistance as a hand up, I am talking about those that live on it, and have children to live on it, have more children because more children will get you more money, and make it a way of life. Something needs to be done about it. These people have no value of self worth and just wait for the "check or card"

Helping children should start at home, you have parents that could care less about the kids and that is an issue that needs to be addressed.

I think if you receive any type of hand out you should have to work in some way to pay back for it. Everyone is capable of doing something, and giving back instead of take take take.

This issue hits close to heart and for many many personal reasons- Please don't think I am attacking you, I am just responding with my views that don't mesh with yours and I too am a caring person at heart for all.
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Old 07-30-2012, 11:33 AM
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ITA I actually treat the needy kids better as I do more for them simply because they do not get much. Just a couple months ago the same family who couldnt pay me because tehy have no money were at a festival. The mom was getting the dad a steak sandwich. I let it go and asked if the kids enjoyed the fest. He told me they want to ride and jump in the bounce house but we cant afford it. OK the steak sandwich you just got cost $10 and the kids can't have $1 to bounce? I took the kids for a ride on everything and they had a ball! Sure it cost me and I dont really have the extra but the smiles and laughter from the poor kids really over paid me! They talked about it for weeks!!

The kids are gone now I had to term for a serious issue and I miss them. I was trying so hard to hang on because I feel the same as you. When the kids are here they are safe, they are FED they are cleaned up and not sitting in filthy diapers etc. They have fun here and the learn. I have a soft spot in my heart for the needy especially kids. I just hate to see parents like theirs teaching them to expect handouts and get revenge if you dont get it. I hope the kids learned real love and real support here but they are so young I will never know sadly.
Someone needs to step up and say hey why are you munching out on a freaking steak sub then? Why not get a hamburger and then you could have put your kid on ride. Easy for these parents to do nothing for the kids. Someone else always stepping in and doing it. No one wants to call someone else out on this issue. Families should be supporting each other to get the heck off welfare and not make it a way of living. Third generations living this way, prob Fourth by now- UGH! Again I am not talking about anyone that uses assistance to help out in a ruff time, weeding out would be to have a limit that someone can stay on welfare and then if they can't make it in the world have someone come in and take kids until they can function enough to give back. Most likely these parents are not doing the greatest job for their kids no matter if they are on welfare or not, let someone that wants to at least give these kids a chance step in. It is embarrassing as a community and country. The big companies would lose out way too much. Statistics should be put out to everyone what the money that welfare gives out goes on. Easy to track with the cards. Then you will see why things don't change. Only certain items should be allowed to be purchased for anyone that is asking for help, none of these extra things that the working parents can't afford.
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Old 07-30-2012, 11:41 AM
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Wow I can't believe they can use their cards at those places! That is an outrage and i would be totally for that law to be passed cards can't be used there.

I know there is real need out there but also a lot of scamming too.

Zoe,
I understand were you are coming from too! My husband was diagnosed with Esophageal cancer at the beginning of summer he can no longer work. He physically is not able. WE applied for Social Security right away so we could get money well there is a 6 month waiting period! so yes SS says he is Disabled but we will not get paid until NOV 22. We have disconnected the cable, refinanced our house, cut every bill we could and still just don't have enough. We had to apply for snap(food stamps) just so we can keep going and get to Nov 22. Will we abuse it no we need that food. I loose all my kids but 2 in 2 weeks as school starts up. There are those of us out her that don't abuse it and really do need it!


You are few and far between!!! I am all for someone that is helping themselves and needs a hand up. I am talking about the life longers! They play stupid so they don't have to do anything, and they play it!!! Big difference. True diseases, like cancer etc.... job loss, hard times, but not as a way of living.

I will keep your husband in my thoughts and prayers- and your family.
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Old 07-30-2012, 11:43 AM
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For July: daycare $2315.......food stamps $997............cash allowance $752.
She also gets housing.

So she spends the $752 each month on whatever she wants. as her housing, utilities and food are well taken care of. Both her and her live-in boyfriend work also.


This is more money than my family spends on our household budget for 4 (and 14 daycare kids) in a month. We, of course, are limited to our NET PAY after taxes (federal, state, local, self employment and payroll), funding our retirement plans and health savings account and insurance premiums. We don't spend anything that we can't pay cash for.

I usually try to stay out of these discussions because I have been on both sides of the fence. My family was on assistance when I was young because my dad was seriously injured (life threatening) at work and hospitalized for a very long time. Long story short, the shame that went along with 'welfare' has stuck with me my entire life. I am 50.

The kicker? When my sahm finally found a crappy, part time night job after my dad came home from the hospital, the state garnished her paycheck to pay it all back. It took them 10 years to pay off the medical bills. They (we) made do; my dad was disabled but fixed small engines and bikes, collected cans, did handyman work for garden fresh items, we were dressed from the Goodwill and garage sales (or charity). I could go on and on.

It makes me sick how much things have changed in a generation. It will all come crashing down soon, cash payouts like this with no accountability will drive this country into bankruptcy.

*stepping down from soapbox*
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Old 07-30-2012, 11:44 AM
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Wow I can't believe they can use their cards at those places! Companies sue that they are being excluded and discriminated against!!! That is why they are able to use the cards in many places that are luxury items for most. Sorry but Pop, soda is not a needed item to function!!! That is an outrage and i would be totally for that law to be passed cards can't be used there.

I know there is real need out there but also a lot of scamming too.

Zoe,
I understand were you are coming from too! My husband was diagnosed with Esophageal cancer at the beginning of summer he can no longer work. He physically is not able. WE applied for Social Security right away so we could get money well there is a 6 month waiting period! so yes SS says he is Disabled but we will not get paid until NOV 22. We have disconnected the cable, refinanced our house, cut every bill we could and still just don't have enough. We had to apply for snap(food stamps) just so we can keep going and get to Nov 22. Will we abuse it no we need that food. I loose all my kids but 2 in 2 weeks as school starts up. There are those of us out her that don't abuse it and really do need it!
I responded in bold, this subject really get's me heated.
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Old 07-30-2012, 11:44 AM
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I am not against benefits for those who need it. I have other daycare clients who are also state pay. They are trying so hard to better themselves with school etc so they can get OFF benefits. The mom in my OP tells her boss to never schedule her more than 30 hours a week. With 30 hours she is considered full time and gets max benefits. If she worked more and earns more (and she easily could) then her benefits would go down. It's a way of life for her and a pretty cushy one at that. I would love to have hundreds of dollars a month to blow on whatever I want.

I don't think it should be a cash benefit they can pull out of an ATM. It should stay on the card so they have to have a record of every item purchased....like a debit card.
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Old 07-30-2012, 12:11 PM
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My final thoughts on this. Children are born into poverty in this country. The welfare system helps children born into poverty. There is no one here who thinks waste and fraud are not a huge problem. My tax dollars go to support this waste and fraud, so my ire is best directed at the politicians who allow this, not the people who receive assistance. We can change our politicians, there is little we can do to change sloth, selfishness and unearned senses of entitlement. I agree with everything polar bear said, it is about job creation for the lower and middle classes. But we can't let people, especially children, fall through the cracks in the meantime.
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Old 07-30-2012, 02:16 PM
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It's all such a shame. This country is so great (and different from many others) in that anyone can come out of poverty and actually become wealthy if they put their mind to it! My in-laws came to this country with absolutely nothing (including an inability to read or write English). They were on assistance when they first came and worked very hard to make something of themselves. Now they are worth millions after 30 years (yet you would never know it). It took a lot of patience, hard work, and plenty of sacrifices along the way, but it just goes to show that it can be done!
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Old 07-30-2012, 03:05 PM
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It's all such a shame. This country is so great (and different from many others) in that anyone can come out of poverty and actually become wealthy if they put their mind to it! My in-laws came to this country with absolutely nothing (including an inability to read or write English). They were on assistance when they first came and worked very hard to make something of themselves. Now they are worth millions after 30 years (yet you would never know it). It took a lot of patience, hard work, and plenty of sacrifices along the way, but it just goes to show that it can be done!
Some people do not have a mind and body strong enough, smart enough, to pull out of poverty and into wealth. That is why their needs to be jobs for everyone, not everyone has the mind of a Doctor etc.... but what is needed are jobs that can pay a wage that people can actually live on, be proud of, and make ends meet with. A hard honest working person, should be able to put a roof over heads, feed the family, and maybe even have a little to go out to eat on the weekend or see a movie (thus creating economic growth)

working families are struggling to put food on the table, pay a mortgage, pay bills, have a dependable vehicle, and maybe have a once in a while entertainment, not even thinking of health care- Sad.

Anywhoooo
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Old 07-30-2012, 06:31 PM
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Some people do not have a mind and body strong enough, smart enough, to pull out of poverty and into wealth. That is why their needs to be jobs for everyone, not everyone has the mind of a Doctor etc.... but what is needed are jobs that can pay a wage that people can actually live on, be proud of, and make ends meet with. A hard honest working person, should be able to put a roof over heads, feed the family, and maybe even have a little to go out to eat on the weekend or see a movie (thus creating economic growth)

working families are struggling to put food on the table, pay a mortgage, pay bills, have a dependable vehicle, and maybe have a once in a while entertainment, not even thinking of health care- Sad.

Anywhoooo
That's the funny thing, they still are unable to really read English. They are still working the same factory job they started with more than 30 years ago. They have worked there long enough to be capped out on the salary (at around $40,000 each), but they have saved a lot along the way, paid off their house, purchased other houses (that are rented out), and have a few vending machines. You don't have to be brilliant or even above average intelligence to have a decent salary in this country. The main thing is that you have to be willing to make some sacrifices. In today's society (and I'm guilty of some of it too )), we are made to believe that we need so much "stuff," but if we thought about our purchases, we would realize that most of the things we spend money on are wants and not needs.
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Old 07-30-2012, 06:42 PM
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I responded in bold, this subject really get's me heated.
omg! i would be pi$$ed off about that too.
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Old 07-30-2012, 07:10 PM
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Wow! Your state needs to revamp their system altogether. The way KS is set up is if you have a job (no matter how few hours you get $0 cash benefits. If you don't have a job you get a small amount and have to go through their job assistance program so you are off cash benefits ASAP. Food assistance is more generous but it all has to be paid through the EBT card as well as childcare etc... I can't believe she can work 30 hours per week and get that much cash assistance when she is working! Crazy.
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Old 07-30-2012, 08:37 PM
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The mom herself has often told the kids at pick up " Get your stuff! We're going to the pool....I got money on my Horizon card!"

What I found most sad...and why I made the post is that her kids think that's life and everyone gets it. They have learned that "Horizon card" means "blow money"

She gets a cash benefit every month. She can simply draw out the cash at any ATM...so no record of what it gets spent on.

She has 7 kids in my care. They all have season passes to the local ski resorts every year. We have a water park here called Seven peaks. They have season passes to there too.

She is often too lazy to transfer her day care money to me each month. Especially if the 1st is on a weekend. So she handed me her number and told me to transfer it. When you put in the number over the phone, a recorded voice tells you the benefits on the card.

For July: daycare $2315.......food stamps $997............cash allowance $752.
She also gets housing.

So she spends the $752 each month on whatever she wants. as her housing, utilities and food are well taken care of. Both her and her live-in boyfriend work also.
Hell.. I think I'll have a ton of kids and live it up on KYs dime. Seems like an easier way to go than working! She makes more than my husband! He works 12 hour days. She makes more than he does while deployed! This is really a travesty. Makes my 150/mo grocery bill look like a pauper. Ugh.
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Old 07-31-2012, 03:27 AM
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That is so not fair, at all. I dont even know what to say.
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Old 07-31-2012, 05:32 AM
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My final thoughts on this. Children are born into poverty in this country. The welfare system helps children born into poverty. There is no one here who thinks waste and fraud are not a huge problem. My tax dollars go to support this waste and fraud, so my ire is best directed at the politicians who allow this, not the people who receive assistance. We can change our politicians, there is little we can do to change sloth, selfishness and unearned senses of entitlement. I agree with everything polar bear said, it is about job creation for the lower and middle classes. But we can't let people, especially children, fall through the cracks in the meantime.
I agree 100%. Also預nd I realize that the family in question is a whole different league than this and I do not agree with what they are doing. However, I don't think children whose parents are on welfare should completely be denied a few enjoyments in life. Should a child whose parents receive welfare benefits not ever have a treat? Should that child never be allowed to go to the swimming pool with his friends? Never see a movie? I think that would be unfair, too. Now, the parents who use all the money to buy things for themselves are just jerks.
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Old 07-31-2012, 05:39 AM
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This thread irritates me because we can't afford to do any of those things. We pay our taxes, all of our bills, and have a very tight food budget. If we go to a movie (once a year maybe), we have to plan ahead and budget for it.

We do not qualify for government assistance because my dh makes over the limit- it is so stupid because he makes commission and they go by "gross" income when calculating assistance- BUT- his commission is taxed like a corporate gift, at a rate of 40%, so we net very little, and his base pay is pathetic.

The system is totally corrupt. I am so sick of the loopholes. He works at a bank and sees people all the time coming to cash their government checks, only to literally smoke it up on drugs and come back the next day looking for more. But we are feeding our family of 4 on $50 a week... Sorry but this thread really hit a sore spot.
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Old 07-31-2012, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by spud912 View Post
That's the funny thing, they still are unable to really read English. They are still working the same factory job they started with more than 30 years ago. They have worked there long enough to be capped out on the salary (at around $40,000 each), but they have saved a lot along the way, paid off their house, purchased other houses (that are rented out), and have a few vending machines. You don't have to be brilliant or even above average intelligence to have a decent salary in this country. The main thing is that you have to be willing to make some sacrifices. In today's society (and I'm guilty of some of it too )), we are made to believe that we need so much "stuff," but if we thought about our purchases, we would realize that most of the things we spend money on are wants and not needs.




This is so true- I love my stuff, but honestly I could do with out more then half of it!!!
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Old 07-31-2012, 11:26 AM
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I agree 100%. Also預nd I realize that the family in question is a whole different league than this and I do not agree with what they are doing. However, I don't think children whose parents are on welfare should completely be denied a few enjoyments in life. Should a child whose parents receive welfare benefits not ever have a treat? Should that child never be allowed to go to the swimming pool with his friends? Never see a movie? I think that would be unfair, too. Now, the parents who use all the money to buy things for themselves are just jerks.
I don't think they should be denied them anymore then I think anyone should be. I just feel they should have to work for them!!! Not get them from the taxes that we all pay!!! Welfare is looking better then jobs to many- they get more and get to sit on the tush too! UGH!
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Old 07-31-2012, 11:31 AM
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This thread irritates me because we can't afford to do any of those things. We pay our taxes, all of our bills, and have a very tight food budget. If we go to a movie (once a year maybe), we have to plan ahead and budget for it.

We do not qualify for government assistance because my dh makes over the limit- it is so stupid because he makes commission and they go by "gross" income when calculating assistance- BUT- his commission is taxed like a corporate gift, at a rate of 40%, so we net very little, and his base pay is pathetic.

The system is totally corrupt. I am so sick of the loopholes. He works at a bank and sees people all the time coming to cash their government checks, only to literally smoke it up on drugs and come back the next day looking for more. But we are feeding our family of 4 on $50 a week... Sorry but this thread really hit a sore spot.
It hits many sore spots for many people but nothing is being done about it! More programs are created to give more out. I can remember one year we were down $ and my husband made dollars short of being able to get reduced lunch for our kids. We were asking for reduced, not free. UGH!!! Hard working, truly hard working families can't get help, but have a child and be single or live with the father and get endless....... this is not do down anyone that receives help, but to down anyone that abuses the system and chooses to live off it forever!!!
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Old 07-31-2012, 04:16 PM
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Conversation overheard between the kids at lunch:

DCB 1 (9yrs) When my mom gets the money on her card, we're going to the movies.

DCB 2(6yrs) What does that mean?

DCB 1 My mom gets money put on a special card and when it gets there, we go do special stuff like movies, and swimming and skiing and get fun stuff......

He's talking about his mothers Horizon card....her welfare card.

Nice to see my tax dollars providing life's necessities for the needy.........she bought a new iphone with the last deposit.
Given the benefit of the doubt. This family is still doing things together. I'm not an advocate of milking the system in any way, but maybe they do something once a month? IDK
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Old 07-31-2012, 04:26 PM
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Given the benefit of the doubt. This family is still doing things together. I'm not an advocate of milking the system in any way, but maybe they do something once a month? IDK
Sorry about that, I didn't see the IPhone thing. We make decent money and it took me YEARS to justify the smart phone. (which I just got and I'm 52 yrs old)! With MY money.. I know food stamps are monitored. Why can't the welfare check be as well?
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Old 08-13-2012, 02:49 PM
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Just thought it was funny, one of my friends shared it with me. Stop taking me so seriously! OY
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Old 08-13-2012, 06:53 PM
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Correct me if I am wrong, but on our judgement day, are we not first judged on if we fed the poor?
.
Im pretty sure i have done worse things then forget the feed the poor. Judgment day for us isnt about condemnation though its about rewards for the good works we have done in the act of service to the King. As far as those things which we did to bring glory to Him. I am all for feeding the animals as well as humans alike. Because we are told to take care of the creation!
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Old 08-13-2012, 07:32 PM
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Im pretty sure i have done worse things then forget the feed the poor. Judgment day for us isnt about condemnation though its about rewards for the good works we have done in the act of service to the King. As far as those things which we did to bring glory to Him. I am all for feeding the animals as well as humans alike. Because we are told to take care of the creation!
Dave, I was expecting you to bring out the scriptures that do not condone laziness, that say if one does not want to work, let him not eat.
In ancient Israel, there was the provision of gleaning. People were commanded not to strip their fields when they harvested. The poor were to be allowed to glean the fields. They were provided for, but they had to do the work in order to receive the help. This is still followed as tradition in some countries in the Middle East.
No judgement, just remember that the system has set itself up to keep people dependent on it. The welfare system has become the ultimate enabler. Once people start getting the much needed help, it's just that much easier to learn how to take advantage of it. Then the dependents become used to it and begin to demand that they be taken care of, because the system "owes" it to them. Its a textbook co-dependent relationship.
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Old 08-13-2012, 09:33 PM
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Dave, I was expecting you to bring out the scriptures that do not condone laziness, that say if one does not want to work, let him not eat.
In ancient Israel, there was the provision of gleaning. People were commanded not to strip their fields when they harvested. The poor were to be allowed to glean the fields. They were provided for, but they had to do the work in order to receive the help. This is still followed as tradition in some countries in the Middle East.
No judgement, just remember that the system has set itself up to keep people dependent on it. The welfare system has become the ultimate enabler. Once people start getting the much needed help, it's just that much easier to learn how to take advantage of it. Then the dependents become used to it and begin to demand that they be taken care of, because the system "owes" it to them. Its a textbook co-dependent relationship.
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Old 08-14-2012, 04:09 AM
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[quote=AmyLeigh;254158]Dave, I was expecting you to bring out the scriptures that do not condone laziness, that say if one does not want to work, let him not eat.
In ancient Israel, there was the provision of gleaning. People were commanded not to strip their fields when they harvested. The poor were to be allowed to glean the fields. They were provided for, but they had to do the work in order to receive the help. This is still followed as tradition in some countries in the Middle East.

That is what the book of Ruth talks about
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Old 08-14-2012, 06:31 AM
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However, I don't think children whose parents are on welfare should completely be denied a few enjoyments in life. Should a child whose parents receive welfare benefits not ever have a treat? Should that child never be allowed to go to the swimming pool with his friends? Never see a movie? I think that would be unfair, too.
I was just about to post that. A movie, swimming, and treats are what you complain about but in reality you have NO idea of their situation. If they were approved for that amount it was because they showed the proper paper trail.

Every family deserves a break. I actually commend this mom for spending her money on quality family time together. So many people, even those not on assistance, spend money on things. She is choosing to spend money on experiences which will enrich the life of her child and their family.

And really, I would rather my tax money go to scammers who abuse the system than have even one child go to bed hungry. Because until you have snuck food into a child's backpack so him and his siblings can eat over the weekend, you have no idea how sad it is to see a family who cannot afford to feed their children. It is heartbreaking.

So yes, I am proud to pay into a system that affords families a chance to buy things that they otherwise couldn't afford. Whether that is food, a swimming membership, or new clothes doesn't matter to me. As long as those who do need it have access, I am happy it is there.
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Old 08-14-2012, 07:18 AM
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Half the book of Proverbs is written about how important it is to work hard and not be lazy. Throughout the Bible we see stories of God's people who had to get out and get things done for themselves. Jesus says we will always have the poor among us, we are supposed to have a relationship with Him so we can witness to others. It does no good to give clothes and food to a poor man and leave his soul bent toward destruction. It goes the other way too, dont just witness without caring for physical needs too.
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Old 08-14-2012, 07:37 AM
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The great thing about America is that religion has no bearing on our laws. So the people who are hungry can eat without religion being shoved down their throat. If they wanted that, they could go to any number of religious based organizations and ask for meals.

I think bringing religion into a political discussion is an odd choice. Your god has nothing to do with the hungry people in this world. Because let's face it, they aren't poor or hungry just because they aren't Christian. There are just as many hungry Christians.

And categorizing everyone on assistance as lazy is just wrong. I thought your god condemned judging...
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Old 08-14-2012, 08:16 AM
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OK, before this goes any further lets just stop as I see this turning very ugly.

I know everyone has their right to their opinions but I really cringe when I see the "Your God". He's just not one person's God, he's alot of peoples God.
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Old 08-14-2012, 08:25 AM
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OK, before this goes any further lets just stop as I see this turning very ugly.

I know everyone has their right to their opinions but I really cringe when I see the "Your God". He's just not one person's God, he's alot of peoples God.
Yes, he is a lot of people's god. He may even be my god, but that doesn't change the fact that the laws of this country aren't based on personal religious beliefs. So bringing a personal religious belief into a political thread does nothing but add another controversial subject to the thread.

And I am offended to see Christian scripture being spouted off and no one says anything but if anyone offers another side of the coin suddenly things "turn ugly." I am backing my side with a personal experience, not religion. I am simply trying to say that our welfare system has NOTHING to do with religion. And my opinion is just as valid as a religious based one.
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Old 08-14-2012, 08:33 AM
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Yes, he is a lot of people's god. He may even be my god, but that doesn't change the fact that the laws of this country aren't based on personal religious beliefs. So bringing a personal religious belief into a political thread does nothing but add another controversial subject to the thread.

And I am offended to see Christian scripture being spouted off and no one says anything but if anyone offers another side of the coin suddenly things "turn ugly." I am backing my side with a personal experience, not religion. I am simply trying to say that our welfare system has NOTHING to do with religion. And can we please leave religion out a political thread.
Dave's was the only one that said anything about the Bible/religion so its not like its was being spouted off. In fact his would have been the "other side of the coin" as his was a totally different take on what was being said. Then he was suddenly "the bad guy". I really don't see why he can't say his say even if it has to do with a religious belief. Thats his opinion and the laws of this country says he can have one, even if there religious.

OK, off to other things-
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Old 08-14-2012, 08:45 AM
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Dave's was the only one that said anything about the Bible/religion so its not like its was being spouted off. In fact his would have been the "other side of the coin" as his was a totally different take on what was being said. Then he was suddenly "the bad guy". I really don't see why he can't say his say even if it has to do with a religious belief. Thats his opinion and the laws of this country says he can have one, even if there religious.

OK, off to other things-
Sorry. That last part came out wrong. I don't mean leave religion out of it. But to say things turn ugly because I said "your god" is crazy when no one has said a word about it until then. I have a right to my opinion as well even if it isn't religion based.

I edited my other post for clarity.
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Old 08-14-2012, 09:08 AM
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The great thing about America is that religion has no bearing on our laws. So the people who are hungry can eat without religion being shoved down their throat. If they wanted that, they could go to any number of religious based organizations and ask for meals.

I think bringing religion into a political discussion is an odd choice. Your god has nothing to do with the hungry people in this world. Because let's face it, they aren't poor or hungry just because they aren't Christian. There are just as many hungry Christians.

And categorizing everyone on assistance as lazy is just wrong. I thought your god condemned judging...
Don't go flaming Dave, I was the one who brought up scripture. It seems to me that the only scripture anyone knows is about condemning judgement. He isn't judging anyone. Obviously this is a sensitive subject for you, and for that, I am sorry that I brought it up.
The fact of the matter is religious beliefs effect political views. No where did anyone say that everyone on assistance is lazy. But I think you would agree that it is not fair to take funds that could feed children and give them to individuals who could be self sufficient, but choose not to.
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Old 08-14-2012, 09:37 AM
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Jen NJ, I agree with you. Crazy as it sounds, some politicians DO THINK that only charities and churches should be the ones to feed the hungry and shelter the homeless. They use this reasoning to speak and vote against welfare programs. Churches and other charities do wonderful work, but they CANNOT replace government assistance.
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Old 08-14-2012, 09:44 AM
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Dave, you seem like a truly great guy, and I'm not flaming you either. But the very first comment you posted on this thread compared people on welfare to feeding stray animals. That was un-called for, and franky, not the response I expected from you. Like I mentioned before, are we not first judged on Judgement Day on whether we fed the poor?
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Old 08-14-2012, 10:21 AM
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Dave, you seem like a truly great guy, and I'm not flaming you either. But the very first comment you posted on this thread compared people on welfare to feeding stray animals. That was un-called for, and franky, not the response I expected from you. Like I mentioned before, are we not first judged on Judgement Day on whether we fed the poor?
In Dave's defense the statement he made about feeding animals/people is a sign that is all over facebook and pinterest. It is about irony.

Not saying I agree or don't agree just sayin'

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Old 08-14-2012, 10:41 AM
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I was just about to post that. A movie, swimming, and treats are what you complain about but in reality you have NO idea of their situation. If they were approved for that amount it was because they showed the proper paper trail.

Every family deserves a break. I actually commend this mom for spending her money on quality family time together. So many people, even those not on assistance, spend money on things. She is choosing to spend money on experiences which will enrich the life of her child and their family.

And really, I would rather my tax money go to scammers who abuse the system than have even one child go to bed hungry. Because until you have snuck food into a child's backpack so him and his siblings can eat over the weekend, you have no idea how sad it is to see a family who cannot afford to feed their children. It is heartbreaking.

So yes, I am proud to pay into a system that affords families a chance to buy things that they otherwise couldn't afford. Whether that is food, a swimming membership, or new clothes doesn't matter to me. As long as those who do need it have access, I am happy it is there.
While I adore the kids...I still have a very hard time with the fact they assume that the money is just fun money. They have season ski passes, season pool passes...the mom now has TWO very expensive phones. They have everything Comcast offers in the way of TV. The kids have ipods, Playstations....you name it...they have it. They eat out all the time. They drive a Suburban. The list goes on. Welfare is supposed to provide necessities, not numerous luxuries.

At Christmas she puts her name on every charity list and brags about the huge haul her kids get while it doesn't cost her a dime. Meanwhile, I watch other parents struggle to pay me, put food on the table and hope they can scratch enough together to buy their kids a few things at Christmas. One of my daycare families applied and were told they earned something stupid like $3 too much to qualify for help. All while the big family goes skiing on the tax payers dime.......

I am all for help where it's needed. And I don't begrudge a child a trip to the pool. But season passes? Ski lessons? When did these become essentials for welfare recipients, when regular folks can't afford them?

As for "quality family time"...well...if you knew the family like I do you would understand. They've been with me for 6 years. I started off with three of her kids. The Mom is "well known" around the questionable male population in town.....seven kids...various fathers....nuff said. They go to the pool and skiing because MOM wants to go. She neglects the kids basic needs. The kids are filthy, underfed (they live on fast food), they fail school because she doesn't get them there on time most days etc. Social services spend a lot of time talking to me and going over to her house (which is horrifically dirty). She doesn't give a hoot about her kids. She cares about the money and the stuff she can do with it. The kids go along for the ride.
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Old 08-14-2012, 11:15 AM
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In Dave's defense the statement he made about feeding animals/people is a sign that is all over facebook and pinterest. It is about irony.

Not saying I agree or don't agree just sayin'
I got it from facebook I wasnt saying i agreed either just thought it was funny
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Old 08-14-2012, 11:42 AM
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Meeko, that is a shame. This seems like a clear case if misuse of the welfare system. It SHOULD be for necessities, the program is definitely broken. I think every single one of us feels that no child should be hungry, dirty, our otherwise neglected. I went to Miami this past weekend and saw a tale if two cities. Children selling fruit by the side of the road, women walking the streets, old people homeless and begging. This was in Liberty City/Overtown area. Just a few short miles away in South Beach, I saw limos, women dripping in gold walking fancy poodles, nightclubs filled with models, basketball players, the ultra wealthy. Both sides of Miami made me kind of sick to my stomach. I has a hard time digesting the scenes from Liberty City. How can we, as a nation, make sure those living in abject poverty are cared for without free unlimited handouts?
Dave, those people in Liberty City were not lazy. The are, for the most part, unemployable because they are children, elderly, mentally ill or handicapped. THESE are the people for whom welfare was intended. Meeko, this mom you have should try living in Liberty City for a week, then she might appreciate her situation a little more and use that money to stop neglecting those poor kids.
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Old 08-14-2012, 11:47 AM
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I got it from facebook I wasnt saying i agreed either just thought it was funny
You are definitely entitled to your opinion of what is funny. I personally dont think comparing people to stray animals is funny. Poverty is not funny.
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Old 08-14-2012, 11:50 AM
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I know this is a touchy subject and I am only going to say a few words, as when this was discussed some years ago, I was put on blast and flamed for my words.

I try not to judge anyone using welfare. We really don't know their story and why they are on it. Yes there are people who abuse it and then there are good people who use it the right way.

I think that if someone actually paid in to it, then when all else fails that it is there to use for emergencies, not as a way to live life.

I really can't blame the people, I blame our government for making it so easy to abuse.
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Old 08-14-2012, 11:58 AM
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I know this is a touchy subject and I am only going to say a few words, as when this was discussed some years ago, I was put on blast and flamed for my words.

I try not to judge anyone using welfare. We really don't know their story and why they are on it. Yes there are people who abuse it and then there are good people who use it the right way.

I think that if someone actually paid in to it, then when all else fails that it is there to use for emergencies, not as a way to live life.

I really can't blame the people, I blame our government for making it so easy to abuse.
Agree! This!

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Old 08-14-2012, 12:17 PM
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Well im done.
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Old 08-14-2012, 03:04 PM
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Wow I can't believe they can use their cards at those places! That is an outrage and i would be totally for that law to be passed cards can't be used there.

I know there is real need out there but also a lot of scamming too.

Zoe,
I understand were you are coming from too! My husband was diagnosed with Esophageal cancer at the beginning of summer he can no longer work. He physically is not able. WE applied for Social Security right away so we could get money well there is a 6 month waiting period! so yes SS says he is Disabled but we will not get paid until NOV 22. We have disconnected the cable, refinanced our house, cut every bill we could and still just don't have enough. We had to apply for snap(food stamps) just so we can keep going and get to Nov 22. Will we abuse it no we need that food. I loose all my kids but 2 in 2 weeks as school starts up. There are those of us out her that don't abuse it and really do need it!
And it's for people like you that this system should be for! Illness (especially cancer) should trump everything else and should put you first in line for benefits.

Please talk to your local Church and Food Pantry. Food and kid's clothing should be readily available to you.
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Old 08-14-2012, 04:18 PM
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When my eldest dd was born I was a single parent. I tried to get medicaid for her (not me) for emergency care only. I was living with my parents, working and going to college at the time. When I applied I was denied, but was told that I should move out of my parents house so that we could both get health insurance, food stamps, housing...They actually tried to talk me into getting all that stuff!
I think that the problems all started when the government started taking over helping the poor instead of churches, extended family, local businesses etc.
We as individual people are called to help others, it shouldn't be the government's job. If I'm hungry, I should be able to go to my church and get food, or my family, or my neighbors, or my local grocery for seconds that will be thrown away but are still good.
When our neighbors got foreclosed on I was heartbroken because it all started with ONE late payment! I'm sure they could have found 20 people willing to donate $50/each to help them make that payment, then they could have saved their home
When an individual is helped by someone when and as needed, that's when a sense of gratitude and a sense of paying it forward is developed. Of course, someone could still take advantage, but I think it would be much less.
It's too bad we're so entrenched in the welfare system that we could never fully go back to the old ways of people helping each other.
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Old 08-14-2012, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by momofsix View Post
When my eldest dd was born I was a single parent. I tried to get medicaid for her (not me) for emergency care only. I was living with my parents, working and going to college at the time. When I applied I was denied, but was told that I should move out of my parents house so that we could both get health insurance, food stamps, housing...They actually tried to talk me into getting all that stuff!
I think that the problems all started when the government started taking over helping the poor instead of churches, extended family, local businesses etc.
We as individual people are called to help others, it shouldn't be the government's job. If I'm hungry, I should be able to go to my church and get food, or my family, or my neighbors, or my local grocery for seconds that will be thrown away but are still good.
When our neighbors got foreclosed on I was heartbroken because it all started with ONE late payment! I'm sure they could have found 20 people willing to donate $50/each to help them make that payment, then they could have saved their home
When an individual is helped by someone when and as needed, that's when a sense of gratitude and a sense of paying it forward is developed. Of course, someone could still take advantage, but I think it would be much less.
It's too bad we're so entrenched in the welfare system that we could never fully go back to the old ways of people helping each other.
This actually happened to a friend of mine. She couldn't even get wic because she still lived at home and they counted her parents income also or something. It was ridiculous!
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