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storybookending 08:06 PM 05-10-2018
Just wondering..

Do you let your children play with sticks they find in the yard? What about rocks? Can they pick the grass?

Discuss..
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Josiegirl 02:05 AM 05-11-2018
We have sticks and rocks(of all sizes) all over our yard. There are certain rules that go along with them. No running with sticks, no poking or hitting each other with sticks, no eating or throwing rocks. If they can be good and follow rules, then they're allowed.
Only problem with that right now is I have an 18 mo who is starting to put small stones in her mouth so I try to redirect her to put them down the slide or through the holes in our climbing toy.
The grass picking-my grass is in such poor shape, not because of the dcks, that I don't stress over it anymore. If I had a nice backyard lawn then I'd probably keep them limited to a small part for their own grass-picking needs because every good backyard soup needs a little grass.
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e.j. 05:39 AM 05-11-2018
I have a fenced in play area that has mulch for ground cover. Usually, the kids stay in that area and don't go on to the grass so there's no grass or rocks for them to play with. When we take walks around the yard, I'm ok with them picking the grass and dandelions.

There is a maple tree in the play area that tends to shed its branches any time it gets windy. The kids help me pick up the sticks and put them in buckets but don't play with them. I never had a problem with kids playing with sticks until I attended a first aid class where we were taught how to use a Dixie cup to stabilize a stick that is stuck in someone's eye. No thank you!
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Blackcat31 05:58 AM 05-11-2018
We have an area where they can play with sticks and rocks.
They can build with them or create all sorts of things but outside of that specific area I do not allow the kids to pick up sticks and/or rocks.

I don't let them pick grass either. We're trying to eliminate the grass all together and cover the playground with either mulch (rubber or wood) or with pea gravel. We haven't decided yet but no, I don't let them just pick grass.

They are welcome to pick dandelions until they are exhausted though! lol!

I used to allow them to climb trees and play in and around them but after years of kids playing in the yard, the trees are off limits now. Too much bark peeled off and branches broken off...
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Cat Herder 06:23 AM 05-11-2018
Do you let your children play with sticks they find in the yard?

Depends on intent. If they are building, pretending, drawing or are otherwise engaged in constructive play, absolutely. If they are using it to flick sand in their kid brothers eye or poke their kid sister, not a chance. All must be tossed over fence at the end of outdoor time as I can get cited for having them accessible. Don't ask, don't tell.

What about rocks?

Same as sticks with the caveat that they have to put them back where they came from. They are taught what happens when you leave them in the grass to be discovered by the lawn mower.

Can they pick the grass?

Um, sure, but why would they want to? Mine spend more time picking blueberries, plums, strawberries, spearmint, chives, honeysuckle flowers and peppermint leaves. These were all planted in the fenced areas with purpose. We also just planted melons, squash, and peppers.
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storybookending 06:39 AM 05-11-2018
I am still on the fence with this but I have been doing a lot of reading on creative outdoor play and I feel bad having these things off limits entirely as I would never want to hinder their creativity as they’ll have enough of that in life. I am just not sure for safety reasons with the sticks and rocks. We have a ton of sticks always due to my neighbors huge trees that hang over our entire backyard. I only have rocks in one small area and I have been just thinking about eliminating them as that small section of the landscaping isn’t my favorite anyways. The grass I am just worried about the lawn looking terrible. As the daughter of a former landscaper I get it the lawn sprayed a few times a year so we never have weeds or dandelions. I usually let them pick the taller grass close to the fence and playset that the lawn mower doesn’t reach only. Leaves moss and pinecones we have a ton of depending on the time of year and I let them play with those.
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Mike 06:40 AM 05-11-2018
Originally Posted by Cat Herder:
Can they pick the grass?

Um, sure, but why would they want to? Mine spend more time picking blueberries, plums, strawberries, spearmint, chives, honeysuckle flowers and peppermint leaves. These were all planted in the fenced areas with purpose. We also just planted melons, squash, and peppers.
Interesting business idea. Farmers can actually get paid for their help, rather than having to pay for it.
News headline: Farmer decides to supplement income by opening home daycare.
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Cat Herder 06:59 AM 05-11-2018
Originally Posted by Mike:
Interesting business idea. Farmers can actually get paid for their help, rather than having to pay for it.
News headline: Farmer decides to supplement income by opening home daycare.
More like to augment food costs. It should be stated that they eat what they pick excitedly. My State had a huge "Farm to Table" initiative a few years back to help teach children better eating habits by actually participating in the growing of their food. We were "encouraged" to add class garden time and child hands-on cooking/food prep into our weekly lesson plans.

It was one of the better programs, IMHO. It really did work here along with the MyPlate initiative. Even the parents got on board, became interested in our local farmers markets, started home gardens (one even got yard birds and brings us eggs ) and all are eating healthier. I really enjoyed participating in that program and have continued it in my own way.

The mothers' tea's? Not so much. They don't like them either. They feel awkward. We traded them for family hiking group outings, instead. The daycare kids and I are fortunate to have very involved Dad's in our program. Those type of events are actually fun and engaging.
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Blackcat31 07:02 AM 05-11-2018
Originally Posted by storybookending:
I am still on the fence with this but I have been doing a lot of reading on creative outdoor play and I feel bad having these things off limits entirely as I would never want to hinder their creativity as they’ll have enough of that in life. I am just not sure for safety reasons with the sticks and rocks. We have a ton of sticks always due to my neighbors huge trees that hang over our entire backyard. I only have rocks in one small area and I have been just thinking about eliminating them as that small section of the landscaping isn’t my favorite anyways. The grass I am just worried about the lawn looking terrible. As the daughter of a former landscaper I get it the lawn sprayed a few times a year so we never have weeds or dandelions. I usually let them pick the taller grass close to the fence and playset that the lawn mower doesn’t reach only. Leaves moss and pinecones we have a ton of depending on the time of year and I let them play with those.
Speaking from experience, this is a crossroads you will find yourself at many times in this career.

Finding balance between fostering independence, creativity etc AND safety, liability is hard.

I used to be a lot more permissive with sticks and rocks but now due to liability I am alot more cautious and less willing to let them play with things like that.
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storybookending 07:35 AM 05-11-2018
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Speaking from experience, this is a crossroads you will find yourself at many times in this career.

Finding balance between fostering independence, creativity etc AND safety, liability is hard.
This is why I found this topic of discussion so interesting. It stemmed from the “what phrases do you use the most in your daycare” thread. I really started paying attention to the things I was saying and I found that I’m constantly telling kids to “be careful”. I am and have always been an overly cautious person by nature. I’ve been reading a lot about risk management in children; when to intervene and when to let them learn by natural consequences. It has really got me thinking about the things I don’t allow the children to do and why (typically safety concerns) and what things I am not allowing that are probably okay with close supervision.
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Miss A 07:55 AM 05-11-2018
Denita Dinger had shared a 911 report from her city at the end of April. The cause for the report? Children playing with sticks in the schoolyard. I wrote up my thoughts on that and shared them on my FB then, and I will share that here: "An amazing Early Childhood Educator and Play advocate shared this actual 911 report in her town of Sioux Falls, SD.

Just yesterday two of my 18 month olds ran around the yard and collected as many sticks as their little arms could carry. They then laid them all out according to size. When that was finished, they took turns hitting the sticks on various ground surfaces (grass, pea gravel, cement), hitting the sticks together, and with sandbox shovels to see how many little sticks they could make from 1 big stick. This was an entirely child led activity. For over 30 minutes these little guys worked diligently on their discovery.

To be so dense as to report a child doing what should be natural to them, playing in and with nature, is a shame. Think of the wonderful skills those kids were using and building. I am most excited for those school age children to have been actively using their imaginations in a day and age where so many toys, games, and activities have predetermined uses and play outcomes.

As long as an object is being used in a way that will not bring harm to one's self or another, what will it hurt if a child plays with a stick, or a pile of leaves, or a mound of dirt, or a puddle of water? Let kids be kids for just a while longer, let them enjoy the simple things. Because all too soon they will be grown."


If a stick or a rock is being used for creative play, I allow it. If they become weapons to hit, poke, or throw then they are removed. My play area is grass, cement, and pea gravel. The kids love to dig in the gravel and fill their dump trucks and buckets. The younger ones do attempt to mouth them, but usually after a couple weeks of consistent redirection that stops. Eating sand is quite the same, but it usually only takes a taste or two to stop that. The gritty texture is a big turn off. But dumping sand is another story. So, the sand table is set up near the gravel so it is easily swept off the cement into the gravel.
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Miss A 08:11 AM 05-11-2018
Originally Posted by storybookending:
This is why I found this topic of discussion so interesting. It stemmed from the “what phrases do you use the most in your daycare” thread. I really started paying attention to the things I was saying and I found that I’m constantly telling kids to “be careful”. I am and have always been an overly cautious person by nature. I’ve been reading a lot about risk management in children; when to intervene and when to let them learn by natural consequences. It has really got me thinking about the things I don’t allow the children to do and why (typically safety concerns) and what things I am not allowing that are probably okay with close supervision.
Again, another reference to Denita Dinger from me, if you can't already tell she is like my Daycare God. (Along with Black Cat and Cat Hearder here)

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...41352815884541

Denita is great about discussing her ideas on risk management. She chooses to build within the child a sense of safety and security, by remaining close to children who are engaged in "risky play", and asking them "do you feel safe?", and reassuring them with "I trust you".

I am still a "be careful!" type in some instances, but I am really trying to move to the "safety play" mindset. I want the children in my care to feel they are trusted, and to be given the opportunity to learn in and explore their environment without the confines that "be careful!" can bring.

Growing up, I remember the differences in my and my siblings play when parents were present vs when we were alone. Our actions were so, so risky when we were allowed to play outside alone because we were not always being hounded too be careful. The number of doctor and ER visits my parents had to make is exceptionally high. I always wonder if our play would have been different when we were unsupervised if we had been given the opportunity to engage in risky play while supervised. Would we have been better at assessing the risks? Maybe, or maybe not.
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Pestle 08:15 AM 05-11-2018
A forest kindergarten teacher told me their rules are:

-Your stick may not be longer than your arm
--You may hold a stick longer than your arm if you are building something with it

That sounded better than my method, which was "The first time that stick pokes me, I'm throwing it over the fence and letting you scream," so now that's what I do.
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Cat Herder 08:21 AM 05-11-2018
Originally Posted by storybookending:
This is why I found this topic of discussion so interesting. It stemmed from the “what phrases do you use the most in your daycare” thread. I really started paying attention to the things I was saying and I found that I’m constantly telling kids to “be careful”. I am and have always been an overly cautious person by nature. I’ve been reading a lot about risk management in children; when to intervene and when to let them learn by natural consequences. It has really got me thinking about the things I don’t allow the children to do and why (typically safety concerns) and what things I am not allowing that are probably okay with close supervision.
This is the newest intiative. It gives a marketing advantage and brings back some fun. I am giving it a whirl in stages as the kids prove competent. https://natureplayandlearningplaces....v1.5_Jan16.pdf -

“Creating environments for healthy human development and a healthy biosphere for generations to come.” This mission is implemented by engaging children and families with the natural world in the places of daily life (home, school, neighborhood) through participatory environmental design, action research, education, and dissemination of information. A key aim is to create, translate, and apply evidence to developing policies affecting children’s everyday experience in the built environment. To this end, NLI works with systems in child development, schools, parks and recreation, urban planning, public health, and nonformal education (nature centers, botanical gardens, zoos, and museums). NLI works with government, nongovernment, and private sectors in communities across North Carolina, and at national and international levels, including with landscape architecture firms."
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storybookending 09:08 AM 05-11-2018
I have been following Denita since someone posted about her play accounts page a few weeks ago and she is where a lot of my thinking has been coming from along with other outside research I’ve been doing about the things she discusses.

I’ve also seen more providers turning to “nature scape” types of outdoor play spaces. My outdoor space leaves something to be desired in terms of daycare at least. I have visions of how I want my daycare to look 5-10 years from now with the outdoor area needing the most work as it just looks like a typical backyard with a playset and grass currently. I am only in my second year of full time in home daycare and other things have taken priority so far.
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Ariana 09:23 AM 05-11-2018
With my own kids I fostered creativity and I allowed sticks and rocks wherever and whenever. Did not matter the size. With daycare kids and the liability I am much more strict. It also depends on the child. A well able bodied 4 year old can have a stick to play with, a crazy 2 year old cannot. Most of the time I allow rocks of all shapes and sizes as long as they are not being thrown. I have not had an issue.

Sticks can be played with on the parents time. A kid getting impaled by a stick in his own yard is a much better way to go
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Jdy2222 10:21 AM 05-11-2018
Yes to sticks, thinner than your thumb and not held above your waist - that said, we don't have many sticks that end up in our yard as we really only have one tree.

Yes to rocks, but no throwing and they must be put back where you found them in the rock garden (I don't want my yard guys to have to worry about mowing over them). I went to a landscaping place and bought all the flattest but not big rocks I could find there. Any that are heavy at all were left behind. I made a rock stacking garden with them.

Grass ... pet peeve, no idea why but it I have one grass picker and it drives me nuts, probably because she's then getting grass in the water table and sand table ... not a big deal but it displeases me sense of order.
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Miss A 10:35 AM 05-11-2018
Originally Posted by storybookending:
I have been following Denita since someone posted about her play accounts page a few weeks ago and she is where a lot of my thinking has been coming from along with other outside research I’ve been doing about the things she discusses.

I’ve also seen more providers turning to “nature scape” types of outdoor play spaces. My outdoor space leaves something to be desired in terms of daycare at least. I have visions of how I want my daycare to look 5-10 years from now with the outdoor area needing the most work as it just looks like a typical backyard with a playset and grass currently. I am only in my second year of full time in home daycare and other things have taken priority so far.

I remember sending you her page link now a couple months ago! Denita really has me thinking daily about my program and my approach to child care. I just love her.

And I hear you on the outdoor play space. I have slowly accumulated outdoor items that are loved and used daily, but it has taken a while. I try to buy lightly used items as often as possible to help keep my cost low. But, so many other repair/maintenance/necessary improvement projects have pipped up along the way
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Unregistered 07:28 PM 05-11-2018
Rocks yes, picking grass-sure, sticks generally no
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Unregistered 11:43 AM 05-12-2018
Originally Posted by e.j.:
I have a fenced in play area that has mulch for ground cover. Usually, the kids stay in that area and don't go on to the grass so there's no grass or rocks for them to play with. When we take walks around the yard, I'm ok with them picking the grass and dandelions.

There is a maple tree in the play area that tends to shed its branches any time it gets windy. The kids help me pick up the sticks and put them in buckets but don't play with them. I never had a problem with kids playing with sticks until I attended a first aid class where we were taught how to use a Dixie cup to stabilize a stick that is stuck in someone's eye. No thank you!
In my state, you get written up for having sticks in your outdoor area.
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e.j. 06:18 PM 05-12-2018
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
In my state, you get written up for having sticks in your outdoor area.
I'm not sure I'd get written up for a few sticks on the ground but safety is one of the reasons we (mostly me) work together to pick them up and put them in a bucket. The bucket is removed from the play area and my husband disposes of them when he gets home from work.
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Cat Herder 06:19 AM 05-14-2018
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
In my state, you get written up for having sticks in your outdoor area.
Mine too, unless you write them into a curriculum plan. They are then natural manipulatives. It differentiates "yard waste" from "natural materials for exploration".

It is ludicrous to me but someone with an expensive degree behind a tax payor provided desk, somewhere in a big air-conditioned building, with lunch breaks and benefits says it grows better-prepared adults for their future to do it that way. And so, I am mandated to do so.
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Jupadia 06:43 AM 05-14-2018
Sticks I don't allow play, but they are welcome to throw any sticks that fall from the maple tree into the fire pit (not lite of course during daycare). But my brother came very close to poking out his own eye playing sticks needed stitches under eyebrow. So no playing with them. They are welcome to play in the mulch under the playplace or dig in the sandtable. No rocks back there but I do allow all the dandelion picking the want and they help me pick the weeds that grow between the patio stones. They leave the grass alone but there is also lots of weeds in it.
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Kimskiddos 07:57 AM 05-14-2018
My place space has quite a few oak trees and they shed! They are fairly brittle and break easily, so lots of twigs. My rule is you can play with sticks if you are sitting on your bottom. We also have a stick collection bucket. Rocks are put in a different bucket. I always have a few toddlers and they love to throw, outside is our safe place to throw things. so I have a no rocks rule.
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e.j. 11:51 AM 05-14-2018
Originally Posted by Jupadia:
But my brother came very close to poking out his own eye playing sticks needed stitches under eyebrow. So no playing with them.
I'm not sure why your post reminded me of my dd's stick "incident" but...she was walking toward a friend who was holding and playing with a relatively large stick. He threw it down on the ground just as she took a step forward. The stick bounced and ended up going right into her leg, creating a good size puncture wound. It was a freak accident but it opened my eyes to what can happen even if kids aren't playing rough with sticks. In my heart, I'd love to be more like Denita Dinger but I tend to worry (probably too much) about liability and ending up as a story on the evening news.
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