4.5 and wearing diapers

[Tasha]

I really need help, because I'm not sure whether I'm wrong about this issue: Would you have a problem accepting a 4.5 year-old child into your daycare who is not potty-trained (and has no special needs or medical problems)?

[NillaWafers]

No I wouldn't accept the child, and not just because of that. I would assume there's other issues, especially with the parents. That's a can of worms I don't want to open.

[nannyde]

I wouldn't feel comfortable doing that. His parents need to care for him if he is normal and he and his parents want diapering. That's a family choice. When he goes to school they won't offer that service.

[Heidi]

I guess I would need more information. Not all special needs are diagnosed. I'd need to know what his previous daycare situation was, how the parents feel about the fact that he's still in diapers, why they think he is, and what they're ready to do about it.

[littletots]

Originally Posted by Heidi

I guess I would need more information. Not all special needs are diagnosed. I'd need to know what his previous daycare situation was, how the parents feel about the fact that he's still in diapers, why they think he is, and what they're ready to do about it.

I agree. Op your question was if I would accept a dck. I wouldn't. I'm sure there is a back story. Op said no special needs or medical. I try not to judge situation. Being military license we get tons of training about family stressers. You'll have to decide for yourself if you can accommodate.

[littletots]

Originally Posted by nannyde

I wouldn't feel comfortable doing that. His parents need to care for him if he is normal and he and his parents want diapering. That's a family choice. When he goes to school they won't offer that service.

My friends grandson was 2nd grade in depends. The school district was working w a team of medical folks. Schools do accommodate under special needs package. He was labeled special needs while helping him work out potty issues.

[daycare]

it would depend. do you have any other options of kids to enroll?

I would ask the parents if they are working on it and if so how are they doing it.

I would not team up with any parents that use punishment for potty accidnets or buy toys as a reward. It does not work and will only delay the process.

you can ask them to stop, but they won't.

last year I termed a family of a 3.5 year old becasuse DCD would spank the kid every time he had an accident at home. The poor kid would have an accident here and immediately go in to hysterics, yelling no no no don't tell my dad.
After talking to the parents and told them I would no longer help if they did that, they said ok we will stop, but they didn't. the poor kid was so traumatized. after another few weeks kid was still doing it and I confronted dcd who replied don't tell me how to raise my kid. DONE that day.

sorry to get off track, but this could be a sticky one. It is possible that the family just hasn't even tired too. BUT what does that say about their parenting. ugh

I personally would keep advertising and try to see if you can find another child.

[mommyneedsadayoff]

Is there a reason he has not been potty trained so far? Did you ask them straight out why he is in diapers? I would need to know their answer to that before I could decide. If they say they just haven't done it because they are busy or whatever, then no, I would not take him. If the family has been through something traumatic and he has gone backwards in his potty training, then I may work with him. It would HIGHLY depend on the parents and the child and whether I feel I would be able to help them over the hurdle. If it is pure laziness or a defiant child, then no way.

[Play Care]

My personal policy is that I will not take anyone new over age 3 still in diapers unless there is a documented medical issue or special need.

This after a very awkward situation several years ago with an older kid still in diapers.

[Thriftylady]

I wouldn't do it. If he had a diagnosis I might. But it just seems to be red flags to me without one.

[Tasha]

Today was his first day. His grandma dropped him off (dad's out of the picture, apparently), because DCM is out of town. About 15 mins after he arrived, he told me, ''I did No. 2, you need to change me.'' I thought he had just had an accident, so I went and got his bag, which I thought only had spare clothes, etc., and discover a bunch of diapers. When I interviewed him and his mother, I did not even think to ask if he was potty-trained because of his age, and certainly did not notice his diaper. After I changed him, I called his grandma to ask what was going on. She told me that he doesn't have any delays nor does he have any medical issues related to toileting. She is concerned, but said his mother isn't, that he just ''isn't ready'' and that it's not a big deal. I've already texted the mom and asked her to call me as soon as she can.

[littletots]

At least he doesn't sit in it. Sounds like DCM has spoken to drs. The "he isn't ready" & "it's not a big deal" is something she told grandmother to get her off her back.

[mommyneedsadayoff]

Originally Posted by Tasha

Today was his first day. His grandma dropped him off (dad's out of the picture, apparently), because DCM is out of town. About 15 mins after he arrived, he told me, ''I did No. 2, you need to change me.'' I thought he had just had an accident, so I went and got his bag, which I thought only had spare clothes, etc., and discover a bunch of diapers. When I interviewed him and his mother, I did not even think to ask if he was potty-trained because of his age, and certainly did not notice his diaper. After I changed him, I called his grandma to ask what was going on. She told me that he doesn't have any delays nor does he have any medical issues related to toileting. She is concerned, but said his mother isn't, that he just ''isn't ready'' and that it's not a big deal. I've already texted the mom and asked her to call me as soon as she can.

"We do number two in the toilet, so you will change yourself and I will show you how. After this we will make sure to use the toilet, so neither of us has to deal with it. If you need, I will remind you to sit on it until you get the hang of it." Of course, I would only do this if you plan to keep him. If he is verbal enough to tell you like that and if he has no behavior issues, you should be able to have him using the toilet before he leaves at the end of hte day. I would be upset with mom however, for not telling you and for making you find out the hard way. Whether you keep or term is up to you, but I would bet he would easily start using the toilet and have no issues. he has probably just never gotten the opportunity or the encouragement to. Let him know how awesome it is to have that independence and how proud his mom wil be to come home after a trip and see what he can do! Again, this is all based on how you feel it would work. If he is defiant and does not want to even try, then I would most definitely term, because I refuse to change a kid's diaper when they can verbally say "hey lady, I crapped my pants and you need to change me now!" Not quite his words, but kinda the same!

[Tasha]

I am angry at myself, because I was very lackadaisical with the process this time, and I am usually not. If you can follow this - my best friend's husband's mother goes to church with the grandmother so unless the mom was awful during the interview I was pretty much going to accept him. DCM didn't fill out all of the paperwork, and I was allowing her to bring in the remainder on Friday when she's back in town. And of course the question of diapers is on one of those pages. So she didn't lie to me. I just never asked and now I am kicking myself.

[nannyde]

Originally Posted by Tasha

Today was his first day. His grandma dropped him off (dad's out of the picture, apparently), because DCM is out of town. About 15 mins after he arrived, he told me, ''I did No. 2, you need to change me.'' I thought he had just had an accident, so I went and got his bag, which I thought only had spare clothes, etc., and discover a bunch of diapers. When I interviewed him and his mother, I did not even think to ask if he was potty-trained because of his age, and certainly did not notice his diaper. After I changed him, I called his grandma to ask what was going on. She told me that he doesn't have any delays nor does he have any medical issues related to toileting. She is concerned, but said his mother isn't, that he just ''isn't ready'' and that it's not a big deal. I've already texted the mom and asked her to call me as soon as she can.

You have the perfect out. They handed it to you on a silver platter. He has no delays, no medical issues, he's just not ready, and it's no big deal.

TAKE THE GIFT. BELIEVE his mother. She knows best!

Get out of it BEFORE he gets a diagnosis that will obligate you to not discriminate.

Just agree he is normal and he just isn't ready. Tell her you don't provide service to children who need diapering at his age. That level of contact is WAY too intimate for his age and your setting. It's way too much liability.

It's a child centered choice for him to choose diapers. It's a mothers right to honor his choice. Once she takes it out into the public, the choice won't be honoured. Too risky and WAY too much to ask another adult to honor.

[sharlan]

I agree. I wouldn't be comfortable changing a child's messy diaper at this age. Who knows what would be said.

[Josiegirl]

Originally Posted by sharlan

I agree. I wouldn't be comfortable changing a child's messy diaper at this age. Who knows what would be said.

Totally agree.

[kendallina]

Originally Posted by Tasha

Today was his first day. His grandma dropped him off (dad's out of the picture, apparently), because DCM is out of town. About 15 mins after he arrived, he told me, ''I did No. 2, you need to change me.'' I thought he had just had an accident, so I went and got his bag, which I thought only had spare clothes, etc., and discover a bunch of diapers. When I interviewed him and his mother, I did not even think to ask if he was potty-trained because of his age, and certainly did not notice his diaper. After I changed him, I called his grandma to ask what was going on. She told me that he doesn't have any delays nor does he have any medical issues related to toileting. She is concerned, but said his mother isn't, that he just ''isn't ready'' and that it's not a big deal. I've already texted the mom and asked her to call me as soon as she can.

Yikes, what a weird situation. I would be willing to work with the mom if she would be willing to train immediately. I would stress that this is developmentally NOT appropriate for him to not be trained. What would make her think that he's not ready? That's a little crazy. At least the grandma is with you and hopefully can help get mom on the same page. I would do a probation period of 3-4 weeks and if he's not trained, then they need to find other care.

ETA: I imagine that there is a whole set of things that mom is doing for him that she thinks he can't do but that he is perfectly capable of doing. I've had a lot of children like this the past few years and I actually enjoy teaching the kids (and the parents!) how capable they are. This kid is going to kinder in a year, I wonder what the mom was planning on doing with an unpotty-trained kid?

[Thriftylady]

I'd be done. If that is the attitude and how it goes, I would be done. I would term right now, in an email. I wouldn't take him another day.

[NillaWafers]

I'm just surprised that she must think this is totally normal? Otherwise I would have thought she would tell you! How strange.

[nannyde]

Originally Posted by NillaWafers

I'm just surprised that she must think this is totally normal? Otherwise I would have thought she would tell you! How strange.

Ehhh I dunno

Where was he in daycare before? My guess is it had something to do with why he needs new daycare.

[nannyde]

Originally Posted by Tasha

I am angry at myself, because I was very lackadaisical with the process this time, and I am usually not. If you can follow this - my best friend's husband's mother goes to church with the grandmother so unless the mom was awful during the interview I was pretty much going to accept him. DCM didn't fill out all of the paperwork, and I was allowing her to bring in the remainder on Friday when she's back in town. And of course the question of diapers is on one of those pages. So she didn't lie to me. I just never asked and now I am kicking myself.

It's just a lifestyle choice. It's not personal.

If you are having visions of trying to train him beware. Any kid who tells you to change him after he stood around you and pooped... knows he has to go.

[daycare]

Originally Posted by nannyde

Ehhh I dunno

Where was he in daycare before? My guess is it had something to do with why he needs new daycare.

I agree with this. I had a parent come to me with a child this age and during the interview I asked my typical questions and I was about to skip the queastion is your child potty trained and thank god I did not because the mom says, well that's why we are looking for a new program.

UGH. thank goodness I only wasted 15 min of my time and theirs becuase as soon as she said this, i told her I am really sorry, but I won't be able to assist him either.

this was of course after I found out that there was NOTHING wrong with the child, he just didn't want to use the toilet.

they were really shocked, I came highly recommended. they waited for an opening so they thought for some reason they were a sure thing.

I agree, get out now while you can.

I wanted to share what I dealt with when I first started doing childcare it was a 5 year old who was in diapers i was very shocked but they had a little situation were the 5 year old was kidnapped by her crazy grandma when she was 2 or 3 and grandma didnt potty train her and was a long prosses to get find her and get her back.so after getting her back I think at age 4 she went through alot so she had behavior issues with potty training so would not realise her pee into the potty she would hold it all day.no rape happened but potty training is what she wanted to control so she went to a behavior school and they got her potty trained she refuse to go at my house so I had to use there technics and say miss .. said u have to use the potty here and it work.since they explain what happened from day one and they were take care of it right away, I was fine wacthing her it only took two weeks to get everything good.she was a very good girl no problems. I had some age 4 in diapers just lazy ness so I potty train on the first day I let parents no I will not change a kid at this age they will use they potty easy since they are old enough. I perfer they do it at home tok but they some time s dont right away thats fine (I prefer both ends).well no diaper at my house. If they dont want trained at my house then I will not watch.

[Tasha]

Earlier I texted DCM about her kid still being in diapers,
and I just got this response: ''Is this a big issue? I didn't
mention it because it's part of your job to change diapers,
isn't it?"
I gotta figure how to get out of this quickly, because I
don't want this to escalate. I really wish it didn't bother
me to change this boy's diapers, but it really does.
Plus, there's no way she wouldn't know that this would
be a huge issue for a caregiver.

[Heidi]

Originally Posted by Tasha

Earlier I texted DCM about her kid still being in diapers,
and I just got this response: ''Is this a big issue? I didn't
mention it because it's part of your job to change diapers,
isn't it?"
I gotta figure how to get out of this quickly, because I
don't want this to escalate. I really wish it didn't bother
me to change this boy's diapers, but it really does.
Plus, there's no way she wouldn't know that this would
be a huge issue for a caregiver.

Although changing diapers is part of my job, unless your child has a documented disability, it is not common to expect a caregive to change diapers after a child's 3rd birthday or so. While I understand that some children are still learning at that time, 4 1/2 years of age is not something I am comfortable with. It is, in fact, so uncommon that I would have expected you to inform me that he is not potty trained. This lack of communciation itself raises enough red flags for me that I am terminating our arrangment effective immediately.

Something along those lines..??

[NillaWafers]

Originally Posted by Heidi

Although changing diapers is part of my job, unless your child has a documented disability, it is not common to expect a caregive to change diapers after a child's 3rd birthday or so. While I understand that some children are still learning at that time, 4 1/2 years of age is not something I am comfortable with. It is, in fact, so uncommon that I would have expected you to inform me that he is not potty trained. This lack of communciation itself raises enough red flags for me that I am terminating our arrangment effective immediately.

Something along those lines..??

Yeah that's pretty much perfect. And she is totally feigning ignorance. Like really?

No, lady. That is NOT normal haha.

[daycare]

I would maybe throw in a line about it's inappropriate intimacy at this age. No adult she be touching a child in that area of this age group.

Wow is all I got after reading moms last text.
I wouldn't deal with that. Oh boy.

[Tasha]

Originally Posted by Heidi

Although changing diapers is part of my job, unless your child has a documented disability, it is not common to expect a caregive to change diapers after a child's 3rd birthday or so. While I understand that some children are still learning at that time, 4 1/2 years of age is not something I am comfortable with. It is, in fact, so uncommon that I would have expected you to inform me that he is not potty trained. This lack of communciation itself raises enough red flags for me that I am terminating our arrangment effective immediately.

Something along those lines..??

I really like this, Heidi.
Does her text sound snarky, or is it just me? She seemed like
a really nice lady when I interviewed her. I've been doing some
Googling tonight and I guess there are kids out there who haven't
potty trained by 4, I just haven't come across them in my daycare.

[mommiebookworm]

I agree with what Heidi suggested. Several years ago, my cousin asked if I would babysit her almost 5 year old daughter. I said sure. She was playing and all of a sudden we could smell a horrible stench. I asked her if she needed to use the bathroom. She just looked at me, and said she did, in her diaper. I couldn't believe that noone told me that she wasn't potty trained. It was horrible!

[childcaremom]

Originally Posted by Heidi

Although changing diapers is part of my job, unless your child has a documented disability, it is not common to expect a caregive to change diapers after a child's 3rd birthday or so. While I understand that some children are still learning at that time, 4 1/2 years of age is not something I am comfortable with. It is, in fact, so uncommon that I would have expected you to inform me that he is not potty trained. This lack of communciation itself raises enough red flags for me that I am terminating our arrangment effective immediately.

Something along those lines..??

I would send it now and not accept the child back into care for one more day. Terminate immediately. Yikes!

[Play Care]

Originally Posted by daycare

I would maybe throw in a line about it's inappropriate intimacy at this age. No adult she be touching a child in that area of this age group.

Wow is all I got after reading moms last text.
I wouldn't deal with that. Oh boy.

While I completely agree with this, I would not say it to this mom. I can see this coming back as a "she was touching him inappropriately!" or some such nonsense.

[mamamanda]

Originally Posted by Play Care

While I completely agree with this, I would not say it to this mom. I can see this coming back as a "she was touching him inappropriately!" or some such nonsense.

Yes, parents seems really weird about this to me. I have 3 kids who range in age from 3.5-5yo and their parents all want me to wipe their bottoms for them each time they poop. They don't even attempt to have them do it themselves. I am not comfortable with that, so at my house they have to wipe themselves and then if they are struggling I can help them with a quick check to see if they got it all. One of the moms got frustrated over it saying that her daughter wasn't capable of wiping herself properly so now she was coming home from my house with "diaper rash" b/c of not getting her bottom clean. So instead of working with her at home her solution was to send diaper cream that I'm expected to smear on dcg's bottom I wipe her each time she poops. Seriously?!? Just no. So, I continue to have dcg wipe herself after giving her a few more pointers on proper hygiene. Then I allow dcg to have a dollop of cream to use herself and wash her hands thoroughly after. I feel very uncomfortable considering the age, but all of these moms act like this is just a normal partof my job. Must be something about the parenting culture today. We take away a child's independence left and right.
And no way would I be changing those diapers on a 4.5 year old.

[nannyde]

Originally Posted by Tasha

Earlier I texted DCM about her kid still being in diapers,
and I just got this response: ''Is this a big issue? I didn't
mention it because it's part of your job to change diapers,
isn't it?"
I gotta figure how to get out of this quickly, because I
don't want this to escalate. I really wish it didn't bother
me to change this boy's diapers, but it really does.
Plus, there's no way she wouldn't know that this would
be a huge issue for a caregiver.

Dear parent,

You are correct that diapering is a part of my job. Just like bottle feeding children who are unable to drink out of a cup, I provide that level of care until they are ready and able to transition to a cup. I would not, however, offer bottle feeding to a four year old who is perfectly normal and without delays.

I offer spoon feeding until a child can master self feeding with utensils. I would not, however, spoon feed a four year old who is perfectly normal and without delays.

I rock children before nap when they are unable to settle themselves before going down for a nap. I would not, however, offer rocking to a four year old who is perfectly normal and without delays.

I purchase rattles, cloth books, squeak toys, boppies, etc for children that can't safely play with with cars, trains, dolls etc. I would not, however, purchase them for a four year old who is perfectly normal and without delays.

Just because specific cares are part of my job, it doesn't mean I need to extend infant and toddler care to ANY child of ANY age because I offer it to the birth to three crowd.

It's not personal. I would not diaper a five, six, ten or twelve year old either. Diapering after the toddler years (birth to three) would only be offered to children who have developmental disabilities and delays. Your son is normal and is without delays. Continuing in diapers is a lifestyle choice at this age. I applaud you for honoring his choice. As his mother, this is your call. I can't offer this unless he would have diagnosed moderate to severe physical and or developmental delays. Offering that level of special needs care for a normal child is not part of my job.

This is a family lifestyle choice, not a daycare issue. Should he become FULLY able to use the potty independently and wipe himself without assistance, feel free to reapply for a slot. If I have an opening at that time, we can proceed. He will need to be FULLY capable to potty for at least one month without accidents or need for ANY adult intervention before, during, and after toileting.

I highly encourage you to tell prospective child care providers this.information immediately when you are searching for care. It is going to be a challenge to find a provider who offers diapering services to children his age who are perfectly normal and without delays. It will save you time and save your son from continuous child care changes.

[Thriftylady]

I don't normally fall into these crazes, but this is a great time to say "bye Felicha".

[laundrymom]

I would just answer back with,

Hey Sally, thanks for texting back so quickly. While you are correct that diapering infants and toddlers is my job, I typically am working on more advanced skills with my preschoolers and kindergarteners. If there is a developmental delay that is prolonging potty learning for Gavin, please provide me with the documentation I need to show my licensor. If there is no diagnosed delay we have two options. We can either work together to get him into underwear and on track with his peers (this will involve him taking responsibility for his own mess after an accident) or we can dissolve our relationship and you can find a provider willing to work within your lifestyle
Choices for your son.
Please advise within 24 hours which option you prefer so I can notify the next family on my waiting list to begin care on Friday.

[hope]

Originally Posted by laundrymom

I would just answer back with,

Hey Sally, thanks for texting back so quickly. While you are correct that diapering infants and toddlers is my job, I typically am working on more advanced skills with my preschoolers and kindergarteners. If there is a developmental delay that is prolonging potty learning for Gavin, please provide me with the documentation I need to show my licensor. If there is no diagnosed delay we have two options. We can either work together to get him into underwear and on track with his peers (this will involve him taking responsibility for his own mess after an accident) or we can dissolve our relationship and you can find a provider willing to work within your lifestyle
Choices for your son.
Please advise within 24 hours which option you prefer so I can notify the next family on my waiting list to begin care on Friday.

I wouldn't offer to help train. If the dcm has waited this long I don't see her putting in an honest effort now. Offering to work with her on training will fall all on the provider. Provider only traing is hard at 2 and 3.......at 4.5 it would be torture on the provider. This dcm needs to take the time to train at home and then once trained she can look for care.

[hope]

And i do find dcm's text response snarky. Not someone I would be willi g to work with.

[Ariana]

She didn't tell you. For me this is the reason I would terminate care. Why wouldn't you tell someone this. She KNOWS this is not normal because she didn't tell you and she didn't even mention things like; do I provide diapers or do you...things that would be normal conversation for a mother with a child in diapers. Diapers come up always when interviewing a diapered child. Her snarky remarks are beyond rude and ridiculous. This is why she is needing another daycare. If there is no extenuating circumstances for this child I would bet that this is out of pure laziness on her part. He probably had some accidents that she got fed up with and voila she is turning him into a helpless person.

I would try and potty train this child IF the mom had been upfront and if she wasn't such a biatch about it. I would be very objective and non confrontational about the whole thing.
Dear DCM,
I do not provide diapering services for children at this age therefore termination of the contract is effective immediately.
Thank you for considering me and my services and all the best,
DCP

We all know she is not going to suddenly have a change of heart and start complying.

[nannyde]

Originally Posted by laundrymom

I would just answer back with,

Hey Sally, thanks for texting back so quickly. While you are correct that diapering infants and toddlers is my job, I typically am working on more advanced skills with my preschoolers and kindergarteners. If there is a developmental delay that is prolonging potty learning for Gavin, please provide me with the documentation I need to show my licensor. If there is no diagnosed delay we have two options. We can either work together to get him into underwear and on track with his peers (this will involve him taking responsibility for his own mess after an accident) or we can dissolve our relationship and you can find a provider willing to work within your lifestyle
Choices for your son.
Please advise within 24 hours which option you prefer so I can notify the next family on my waiting list to begin care on Friday.

I would not offer to assist training. There's a reason he isn't trained and going to a different provider doesn't change that.

My guess is he went into pullups at a very young age and has had TONS of potty training. I'm guessing three years of it. I could be wrong of course.

[mommyneedsadayoff]

My son was 3.5 when he trained and it took less than an hour. He didn't ask to start wearing underwear, but I knew he was ready (and I was ready too), so I told him he was done with diapers and would use the toilet now. He didn't get t the toilet in time the very first time (playing and waited too long...probably forgot he didn't have and diaper on). So he cleaned himself up, put on new underwear and that was the last accident he had. He ran to the potty the next time and from then on, including no problems at night. Not every kid will be that easy, but at 4.5, unless he is defiant and blatantly does not want to train, it may not be that hard.

Now, all that said, I would definitely terminate because of MOM. The fact that she didn't tell you, when I know SHE knows it is not usual for a perfectly normal almost five year old to be in diapers (otherwise she would have told you upfront) and also the text back to you about it being your "job" to change diapers. Well, it is HER job to make sure her child is advancing at an age appropriate pace. As nanny said, you wouldn't let an almost five year old have their drink in a bottle, so why would she think it is your job to change their diaper? She withheld the truth for a reason and its because she knew you would have issues with him not being trained (probably like the other daycares she used before). Who knows what else she won't tell you, so I would move on!

[daycarediva]

Originally Posted by Play Care

My personal policy is that I will not take anyone new over age 3 still in diapers unless there is a documented medical issue or special need.

This after a very awkward situation several years ago with an older kid still in diapers.

Same policy... I have/had a nightmare incident taking a 3yo not yet trained, he is STILL NOT TRAINED. He's just shy of 5. I call Mom to come clean him up if he is unable to do it himself.

Originally Posted by Heidi

Although changing diapers is part of my job, unless your child has a documented disability, it is not common to expect a caregive to change diapers after a child's 3rd birthday or so. While I understand that some children are still learning at that time, 4 1/2 years of age is not something I am comfortable with. It is, in fact, so uncommon that I would have expected you to inform me that he is not potty trained. This lack of communciation itself raises enough red flags for me that I am terminating our arrangment effective immediately.

Something along those lines..??