Can my Landlord force me to stop watching kids?

[Kreeman]

I am a Type B unlicensed child care provider in Ohio. It has come to my attention that any business run out of my apartment is prohibited under my lease. My landlord wants me to stop watching these kids because she considers it a business. I don't at all, and I don't think the law would consider it legitimate either. I would understand if I was a licensed and fully operational daycare but I'm not. It's just babysitting. Can I fight this with any legal standing? If I'm truly in the wrong I will stop but before doing that and giving up half my family's income, I would like to be 100% sure of my rights. Please only answer if you are knowledgable about Ohio law and tenant rights. Thanks.

[Thriftylady]

I am also in Ohio. As a Class B home, I say we would be considered a business. Based on the facts that we still have to pay taxes and still have to provide our tax info for the parents to claim tax deductions. I think the real question comes down to what does the lease say. They can tell you it says this or that, but make sure it really does.

if you had a business license you would have business insurance
the land lords concerns are over liablity and damage ...who pays if a claim comes in ...

[Magic]

I am the unreg one about insurance too
an other thought ...is if it had to be a business the landlords place may not be zoned to be a business...so they they could get introuble not you ...so maybe you could get some sort of insurance and " babysit" and the land lord might be confortable with that ....they are simply covering them selves ....and realy they have too ...

[daycare]

look into fair housing within your state and see what it says. I don't know about your state, but here in CA our landlord can not deny us. BUT we also have to be licensed.

you can only be licensed empt if you watch one families children. they can have multiple children, but must be from the same family, otherwise need a license.

[Kreeman]

Originally Posted by Thriftylady

I am also in Ohio. As a Class B home, I say we would be considered a business. Based on the facts that we still have to pay taxes and still have to provide our tax info for the parents to claim tax deductions. I think the real question comes down to what does the lease say. They can tell you it says this or that, but make sure it really does.

I am unlicensed, though, and am paid in cash. I am not taxed whatsoever.

[Kreeman]

Originally Posted by Magic

I am the unreg one about insurance too
an other thought ...is if it had to be a business the landlords place may not be zoned to be a business...so they they could get introuble not you ...so maybe you could get some sort of insurance and " babysit" and the land lord might be confortable with that ....they are simply covering them selves ....and realy they have too ...

I would be more than willing to get some type of liability insurance if it came to that but so far the landlord just wants me to quit watching kids.

[Kreeman]

Originally Posted by daycare

look into fair housing within your state and see what it says. I don't know about your state, but here in CA our landlord can not deny us. BUT we also have to be licensed.

you can only be licensed empt if you watch one families children. they can have multiple children, but must be from the same family, otherwise need a license.

The only LAWS I can find are CA laws. Seems to be the case with most things. I can't find anything pertaining to this in Ohio law.

[Blackcat31]

Money from babysitting is still considered income.
ALL income is taxable.

I think your landlord is correct in stating that you are running a business because you are earning an income by providing a service.

Babysitting is usually defined by length of time you watched the child(ren) and how often. If its a couple hours once or twice a month I'd consider asking for consideration in regards to the lease rule but it would still be considered income and be taxable.

If I recall correctly the IRS actually defines babysitting
http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-...taxable-Income

[Heidi]

Originally Posted by Kreeman

I am unlicensed, though, and am paid in cash. I am not taxed whatsoever.

So...

You're lease, which I believe is a contract you signed, says 'no business". That means...no business. Sucks, but true. I dealt with it once myself many years ago, and even though I was only caring for 3 children, the landlord said "no".

As for working for cash, you're really opening yourself up to a big ole' can of IRS whoop-ass if you're reported. Isn't that how they got Al Copone?

Seriously, if you're watching your neighbors kids now and then, no one is going to care. But, you are running a business in an apartment without the landlords consent, and evading taxes too. Double trouble there!

[Provider_Manda]

Originally Posted by Kreeman

I am unlicensed, though, and am paid in cash. I am not taxed whatsoever.

If you are unlicensed than you are not type B. I'm a type B provider in Ohio, licensed through the State. Even if you consider yourself unlicensed provider, you are still considered a business and are suppose to file taxes and give receipts to you families for tax purposes. Providers are not taxed, they are considered self-employed and file taxes, depending on your income and such depends on if you pay taxes or not.

[MrsSteinel'sHouse]

Originally Posted by Kreeman

I am unlicensed, though, and am paid in cash. I am not taxed whatsoever.

If you are saying you are a Type B that is a licensed provider in Ohio. If you are unlicensed then you are unlicensed.
You are still responsible for taxes. If any money goes from a parents hands to yours, you are responsible to report that as income on your taxes. If you are having clients come to your residence to watch a child and you are accepting money for that child, you are operating a business weather you treat it as such or not.
"Babysitting" would be on occasion you watch a child. (even then you are responsible to report that income!) If daily, you have kids, that is a childcare business. If this is half of your income, it is a business.
Now, read your lease. Talk to the landlord but if it says no businesses, they do have grounds to stop you.

[Solandia]

Chiming in like the others...
#1 - you are a business, a babysitting biz or home daycare, whichever you call yourself

#2 - it is taxable income, cash or not

#3 - your clients can still claim the childcare deduction on their taxes, without or without your consent or tax#.

#4- not paying taxes is punishable. IRS don't play games on that.

I was unlicensed, legally, for a few years total, licensed for about 10. I ran my business the exact same way, kept the same record for taxes, and paid my taxes. Even for the clients that didn't claim the deduction and/or paid in cash. You certainly can choose to work "under the table", but it is not legal, nor advised.

As far as the landlord is concerned, not only are you running an illegal biz, but you are running it on his property. If a child gets injured in some way, he needs to know that YOUR insurance is going to cover it, and not get his insurance canceled because you are a home daycare. Since you illegally not paying taxes, I can pretty much guess you aren't paying for daycare insurance.

I can't see any landlord wanting to have that kind of liability for a renter operating a shady business out of his property.

[Ariana]

Not paying taxes on cash earned is ILLEGAL.
Anytime you exchange a service or product for money it is a BUSINESS

I agree with your landlord unfortunately.

Its a business.. you are earning regular income at the property and you need to be paying taxes on it. All income earned is taxable. Heck I earned 5 dollars at jury duty one day and that was taxed. Your options are either to stop babysitting at that property or move out.

She didn't inquire about taxes. From what I gather your landlord has already said no, so unless you can get them to change their mind you need to move or find another career.

I would suggest always read your contract first before signing, that way you won't be surprised down the road.

[Blackcat31]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

She didn't inquire about taxes. From what I gather your landlord has already said no, so unless you can get them to change their mind you need to move or find another career.

I would suggest always read your contract first before signing, that way you won't be surprised down the road.

She didn't ask about taxes but she clearly doesn't think she needs to pay them.

Originally Posted by Kreeman

I am unlicensed, though, and am paid in cash. I am not taxed whatsoever.

[laundrymom]

Originally Posted by Kreeman

I am unlicensed, though, and am paid in cash. I am not taxed whatsoever.

Oh. You are taxed. You are just failing to be honest and pay. The IRS will get their money, one way or another.
Sooner or later.

[nannyde]

Originally Posted by Kreeman

I am unlicensed, though, and am paid in cash. I am not taxed whatsoever.

You are a business. You must pay taxes. The parents can pay in cash but it will not stop them from claiming the money they pay you. All they have to do is put your name, address, phone number and the amount they paid you on their tax form with a note stating you REFUSED to give them receipts and your EIN number or social security.

You will be audited and the IRS will be able to look at all your bills, bank transactions, and credit card payments. They will easily be able to see your income because it's half your family income.

You don't get to say words like "Type B and babysitting" to fool your landlord or the IRS. They don't care if you call yourself a Queen or a Frog as long as you claim your income.

The good news is that, by claiming income you will be able to have ample deductions to write off your business and living expenses. That would most likely bring you a nice income tax return unless your dh makes huge money. If he does your business will most likely decrease the tax liability on his income.

The bad news is that once you actually start having to claim income you will have to raise rates. The parents may want both the cheap cash rate AND the receipt. They will readily agree to the lower cash rate until tax time. Once their tax preparer shares they can claim the cash payments... they will change their minds. You can end up having high turnover based on when they get their taxes done.

[nannyde]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

She didn't inquire about taxes. From what I gather your landlord has already said no, so unless you can get them to change their mind you need to move or find another career.

I would suggest always read your contract first before signing, that way you won't be surprised down the road.

She did say being paid in cash makes her not a business which then makes her claim to her landlord that she isn't a business valid.

She's a business.

[Thriftylady]

Even paid in cash you have to pay taxes. Refusing to give parents your tax id number to claim what they pay you on their taxes is a nice fine for EACH family from the IRS. You are a business if you are accepting payments from parents to provide child care (even if you call it babysitting) in your home for money. I am legally unlicensed in Ohio, and I pay taxes on every penny. I am sorry but it is a sore spot for me when other people don't.

Originally Posted by nannyde

She did say being paid in cash makes her not a business which then makes her claim to her landlord that she isn't a business valid.

She's a business.

I agree, no doubt there. Cash, checks, rubles...

My contention is why people rent then sign contracts that clearly state these things. Then they want to try and fight it. With all the rentals out there, find one that allows it.

[Blackcat31]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

My contention is why people rent then sign contracts that clearly state these things. Then they want to try and fight it. With all the rentals out there, find one that allows it.

Seems to be the case with every thing...


Rules apply to everyone.

Except them.

[SilverSabre25]

Provider_Manda, I disagree. As a fellow Ohio provider, also unlicensed, I still consider myself a Type B provider because licensing for type B providers is not required.

Anyway, OP, you're still a business whether you're operating legally or not. Landlord is probably concerned about damages, traffic/parking, liability, etc. And consider, in the future, claiming your income and paying taxes properly. It can be a big draw to clients, actually, to tell them that you claim your income because it makes THEIR childcare fees tax deductible. As a home daycare provider you're able to take a lot of deductions (including certain portions of your rent, utilities, the children's meals, etc) which this forum can more than easily help you with.

[SilverSabre25]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I agree, no doubt there. Cash, checks, rubles...

My contention is why people rent then sign contracts that clearly state these things. Then they want to try and fight it. With all the rentals out there, find one that allows it.

I do have to wonder though, if the landlord would forbid a home based business such as someone who works from home (i.e. those work from home call center or medical billing jobs), or makes cloth diapers, or things to sell on Etsy.... inquiring minds want to know!

[Thriftylady]

Originally Posted by SilverSabre25

Provider_Manda, I disagree. As a fellow Ohio provider, also unlicensed, I still consider myself a Type B provider because licensing for type B providers is not required.

Anyway, OP, you're still a business whether you're operating legally or not. Landlord is probably concerned about damages, traffic/parking, liability, etc. And consider, in the future, claiming your income and paying taxes properly. It can be a big draw to clients, actually, to tell them that you claim your income because it makes THEIR childcare fees tax deductible. As a home daycare provider you're able to take a lot of deductions (including certain portions of your rent, utilities, the children's meals, etc) which this forum can more than easily help you with.

I agree I am Class B and not licensed. We don't have to be. I pay all my taxes and claim all my deductions.

[Ariana]

Originally Posted by SilverSabre25

I do have to wonder though, if the landlord would forbid a home based business such as someone who works from home (i.e. those work from home call center or medical billing jobs), or makes cloth diapers, or things to sell on Etsy.... inquiring minds want to know!

I would say that those businesses could go under the radar without him/her ever knowing about it. A daycare, not so much!

[nannyde]

Originally Posted by SilverSabre25

I do have to wonder though, if the landlord would forbid a home based business such as someone who works from home (i.e. those work from home call center or medical billing jobs), or makes cloth diapers, or things to sell on Etsy.... inquiring minds want to know!

No personal injuries are going to come from those jobs.

[Ariana]

Originally Posted by nannyde

No personal injuries are going to come from those jobs.

Great point! You also don't need special insurance for those types of jobs.

[MrsSteinel'sHouse]

Selling a product on ebay or etsy would be different because liability. Really you are running that business out of the post office

[Thriftylady]

Originally Posted by MrsSteinel'sHouse

Selling a product on ebay or etsy would be different because liability. Really you are running that business out of the post office

LOL you are right but if the USPS catches on will they start charging rent I wonder?

[MrsSteinel'sHouse]

Originally Posted by Thriftylady

LOL you are right but if the USPS catches on will they start charging rent I wonder?

[Magic]

on the insurance end of things
I live in Canada and I am an insurance night mare and I am fully covered
this coment is mainly for selling
most home insurance allows one home based businnes...so I could sell candles
or I could sell pottery
but I can not sell a candle with a pottery holder ...with out comercial insurance
I sell jewlery, food ex have a farm ex and of course a daycare
most insurance compainies wont touch me
but again I am fully insured
the issue though on line selling is if some one buys a product that does harm ..your home insurance company has to go to bat for you ....not the post office ....
I have had BAD insurance compnies and now a great one
I am covered for liablity for daycare ...reg to prove , insured for a farm allows me to sell farm products and some food , commerical which allows me to sell anything ...even covered off property sales ...ex
AND ...when interviewing or selling I state I am fully insured ...seems to help settle the intrested clients ...