Local Preschool Teacher

[daycarediva]

WOW.

I just re-interviewed with a family who has been on my waiting list for a solid year. Their schedule changed, and I can now accommodate them. They gave notice at their current program, but asked if they could do T/TH for a while. I only have a M/W/F space available and they would prefer FT. The woman FREAKED OUT on them. Packed up their things and booted them immediately. They pay monthly, but only a 10 day notice is required. Mom just forwarded me the emails. This lady is NUTS. Yes it hurts when someone leaves your program because they aren't happy, but to react this way makes us both feel she is mentally unstable. They aren't welcome back- if you don't like my program, you don't need to come back. BUT she refuses to refund them (they are paid through 11/1)

There was no OBVIOUS reason to leave, other than the lady is older (60's) she runs a montessori program, and touts a lot of things that the parents have never seen in action. When they ask, she balks and repeats her program information. She doesn't 'do' holidays, they don't go outside much (it has to be 'sunny' and warm, not too hot, etc), she doesn't like to sing or dance, and they read only the books she has chosen, etc. They also have very limited access to their child. (hard to explain, but confirmed in the emails Mom forwarded to me). From what the CHILD was saying at the interview, they are required to stay on their rugs and NOT MOVE. She asked me where the rugs were and if she was allowed to chose her toys.

I suggested to the Mom that she call licensing and gave her the contact info. Some of her practices are actually against regulations here.

[Blackcat31]

Originally Posted by daycarediva

WOW.

I just re-interviewed with a family who has been on my waiting list for a solid year. Their schedule changed, and I can now accommodate them. They gave notice at their current program, but asked if they could do T/TH for a while. I only have a M/W/F space available and they would prefer FT. The woman FREAKED OUT on them. Packed up their things and booted them immediately. They pay monthly, but only a 10 day notice is required. Mom just forwarded me the emails. This lady is NUTS. Yes it hurts when someone leaves your program because they aren't happy, but to react this way makes us both feel she is mentally unstable. They aren't welcome back- if you don't like my program, you don't need to come back. BUT she refuses to refund them (they are paid through 11/1)

There was no OBVIOUS reason to leave, other than the lady is older (60's) she runs a montessori program, and touts a lot of things that the parents have never seen in action. When they ask, she balks and repeats her program information. She doesn't 'do' holidays, they don't go outside much (it has to be 'sunny' and warm, not too hot, etc), she doesn't like to sing or dance, and they read only the books she has chosen, etc. They also have very limited access to their child. (hard to explain, but confirmed in the emails Mom forwarded to me). From what the CHILD was saying at the interview, they are required to stay on their rugs and NOT MOVE. She asked me where the rugs were and if she was allowed to chose her toys.

I suggested to the Mom that she call licensing and gave her the contact info. Some of her practices are actually against regulations here.

Wow!

Poor DCM.

I used to be amazed at some of the things providers will do/say when they get wind of a family leaving. Often times once they (provider) find out, they do everything in their power to boot the family under the pretext of having to watch out for yourself too.... I understand where they are coming from but don't agree with how any handle it.

Sadly I am no longer amazed at the behavior of some providers.
I have reluctantly let go of the notion that I have seen/heard it all because every day someone proves me wrong.

I hope you are able to accommodate DCM in full time care sooner than later for her benefit alone....if not, she'll just have to figure something else out for alternate days you can't accommodate her but I am sorry she had to deal with her previous providers "less than professional" behavior.

[laundrymom]

Poor dcm??
Poor kid!!!!!!

Wow. What do you mean stay on their rug? Limited contact? No dancing/singing?? Omg.
I'm angry !!!!!

Ugh. Poor family.

[Heidi]

Originally Posted by laundrymom

Poor dcm??
Poor kid!!!!!!

Wow. What do you mean stay on their rug? Limited contact? No dancing/singing?? Omg.
I'm angry !!!!!

Ugh. Poor family.

Well, in a Montessori program, children have rugs to do their "work" on. However THEY choose their work, and when they are done with one thing, they put it away and choose another. It's "freedom within limits".

Making them STAY on said rug is not Montessori. It's mean.

[laundrymom]

Originally Posted by Heidi

Well, in a Montessori program, children have rugs to do their "work" on. However THEY choose their work, and when they are done with one thing, they put it away and choose another. It's "freedom within limits".

Making them STAY on said rug is not Montessori. It's mean.

Yeah. I was a little too shocked and upset to articulate. Sorry

I get the rug concept. But "stay"?
No. That's mean.

[Hunni Bee]

Which is why I don't trust most "Montessori" programs (no offense to anyone here who runs one). In order to truly get what Montessori really is about you have to actually study it.

This woman probably read a few Montessori books and websites, and decided it was right up her alley to keep the kids quiet and out of her hair. I bet she spends lots of time online.She's an ass.

The DCM absolutely needs to report her. That sounds like a super restrictive environment and borders on abusive.

[laundrymom]

Originally Posted by Hunni Bee

Which is why I don't trust most "Montessori" programs (no offense to anyone here who runs one). In order to truly get what Montessori really is about you have to actually study it.

This woman probably read a few Montessori books and websites, and decided it was right up her alley to keep the kids quiet and out of her hair. I bet she spends lots of time online.She's an ass.

The DCM absolutely needs to report her. That sounds like a super restrictive environment and borders on abusive.

This. Absolutely this.
Much better answer than mine. You are awesome.

[Controlled Chaos]

Originally Posted by Hunni Bee

Which is why I don't trust most "Montessori" programs (no offense to anyone here who runs one). In order to truly get what Montessori really is about you have to actually study it.

This woman probably read a few Montessori books and websites, and decided it was right up her alley to keep the kids quiet and out of her hair. I bet she spends lots of time online.She's an ass.

The DCM absolutely needs to report her. That sounds like a super restrictive environment and borders on abusive.

Yea, I run my program with lots of Montessori principals but as I haven't studied it I am reluctant to use the word to describe my program officially. A friend of mine just toured a local charter school that is new and I have hear really sketchy things about the middle and high school part. My friend was so pleased to learn they were Montessori at the tour when its not on their website or anything. I asked her "Oh? How so?" and she said "Well, they didn't explain but I know Montessori is good so I like that!"

[Thriftylady]

Wow on their rugs all day? That is just wrong and goes against everything children should be doing. I mean some time on their rug I get but not all day. How does she even enforce that?

[CalCare]

That's awful
I don't like to "do" holidays either! But I'm not a psycho lol

[daycarediva]

Well, the provider emailed ME. I refuse to engage this woman, and forwarded it straight to my registrar, who forwarded it to her licensing agent (group FCC, different inspectors in our state).

She basically said my 'play based' approach was crap and kids learn best through structure, rules and routine and that this was not the first family I stole from her (true, I've had three leave her to enroll with me in the last six years- all stayed on and were happy here, and I have had families interview with both places and decide on my program).

I definitely have made an enemy out of her!

I will be able to give her FT in 5 weeks when grandma returns and my other dcg goes back to part time. In the meantime, she's on call for any spaces, and returned everything last night to start tomorrow.

some of what she does against regulations (other than the super restrictive 'play' allowed in her program).

-infants are all in one infant room, toddlers and preschoolers are lumped together. Her husband is her assistant. He does the infants- 4 at a time. They could have 4 total, but they would have to divide the kids up so that each person had 2. That leaves this woman with 8 kids from 2-5 during the day. Our state allows 6. She also has 4 before and after school kids in her kitchen area- mostly unsupervised. So she is 12:1, or DOUBLE ratio before and after school.

-required outside time daily unless the weather is dangerous. She doesn't even HAVE an outside space, very tiny front yard on a busy highway. A little garden with marble benches and a trellis. No toys.

-dck has a strawberry allergy. Mom has pedi documentation. Mom asks if she is going to serve strawberries to let her know and Mom will send in a substitute. Now that dcg is talking more- she is telling mom that the other kids get strawberries and she gets nothing. Eg. she isn't replacing the meal component, just eliminating it for her because of the allergy.

-the kids nap on the second floor of her home. It's a new reg, but a big no no.

-Everyone naps on a cot, the cots are shared. So are the blankets and pillows. They're all stacked and the kids just grab whatever. Dcg has had lice twice since August. Dcm didn't place blame, but it didn't stop until she asked if dcg could bring in her own things.

-Parents MUST call before entering if it's outside of pick up times. Then their child is brought out to them. They're very rarely allowed to even see the childcare areas.

All of this is confirmed with emails the mom has forwarded me. Because she is the ONLY program in our area advertising as montessori, everyone thinks it's a great program (similar to what someone said previously. If it's montessori it MUST be good)

[finsup]

Originally Posted by daycarediva

Well, the provider emailed ME. I refuse to engage this woman, and forwarded it straight to my registrar, who forwarded it to her licensing agent (group FCC, different inspectors in our state).

She basically said my 'play based' approach was crap and kids learn best through structure, rules and routine and that this was not the first family I stole from her (true, I've had three leave her to enroll with me in the last six years- all stayed on and were happy here, and I have had families interview with both places and decide on my program).

I definitely have made an enemy out of her!

I will be able to give her FT in 5 weeks when grandma returns and my other dcg goes back to part time. In the meantime, she's on call for any spaces, and returned everything last night to start tomorrow.

some of what she does against regulations (other than the super restrictive 'play' allowed in her program).

-infants are all in one infant room, toddlers and preschoolers are lumped together. Her husband is her assistant. He does the infants- 4 at a time. They could have 4 total, but they would have to divide the kids up so that each person had 2. That leaves this woman with 8 kids from 2-5 during the day. Our state allows 6. She also has 4 before and after school kids in her kitchen area- mostly unsupervised. So she is 12:1, or DOUBLE ratio before and after school.

-required outside time daily unless the weather is dangerous. She doesn't even HAVE an outside space, very tiny front yard on a busy highway. A little garden with marble benches and a trellis. No toys.

-dck has a strawberry allergy. Mom has pedi documentation. Mom asks if she is going to serve strawberries to let her know and Mom will send in a substitute. Now that dcg is talking more- she is telling mom that the other kids get strawberries and she gets nothing. Eg. she isn't replacing the meal component, just eliminating it for her because of the allergy.

-the kids nap on the second floor of her home. It's a new reg, but a big no no.

-Everyone naps on a cot, the cots are shared. So are the blankets and pillows. They're all stacked and the kids just grab whatever. Dcg has had lice twice since August. Dcm didn't place blame, but it didn't stop until she asked if dcg could bring in her own things.

-Parents MUST call before entering if it's outside of pick up times. Then their child is brought out to them. They're very rarely allowed to even see the childcare areas.

All of this is confirmed with emails the mom has forwarded me. Because she is the ONLY program in our area advertising as montessori, everyone thinks it's a great program (similar to what someone said previously. If it's montessori it MUST be good)

Wow. Just...wow. I know of some not great providers but that is bad. "Steal" as many of those kids as you can!

[laundrymom]

Originally Posted by finsup

Wow. Just...wow. I know of some not great providers but that is bad. "Steal" as many of those kids as you can!

Yes. Please.
Those poor babies.

[daycarediva]

I gave dcm a copy of the state regulations so that she could review them herself. She is sending me emails dating back 2 years (!) with admitted blatant violations. She posted on her mommy group on facebook that she had to pull kiddo from care immediately due to X, y, z and gave the link to all of the moms on there to the state regulations. She didn't name names, but her friends know where the kiddo attends. Two of the members of the group also have kids that attend there. One is doing a random stop at her lunch today.

She has been emailing me screenshots from other moms saying "Hey, my licensed provider does that, too!" "Wow I am seeing a lot of violations from my licensed provider." "My provider isn't licensed but said she is legal, she has 4 kids, that's not legal!"

I opened Pandora's box.

Every provider in my area might hate me soon.

[childcaremom]

Originally Posted by daycarediva

Every provider in my area might hate me soon.

Only the ones who aren't following the rules.

[laundrymom]

Originally Posted by daycarediva

I opened Pandora's box.

Every provider in my area might hate me soon.

Only those w something to hide. The professionals might be glad of the boom in business.

[Hunni Bee]

This may be beside the point...but I want to know, how in the HELL is she managing EIGHT toddlers and preschoolers who have no outside time and no playtime except that rug thing she does?

I'm willing to bet that her discipline practices aren't in line with licensing either.

I hope they pay her a nice, big ole unannounced visit real soon.

[daycarediva]

Originally Posted by childcaremom

Only the ones who aren't following the rules.

Originally Posted by laundrymom

Only those w something to hide. The professionals might be glad of the boom in business.

^ almost word for word what my dh said.

Originally Posted by Hunni Bee

This may be beside the point...but I want to know, how in the HELL is she managing EIGHT toddlers and preschoolers who have no outside time and no playtime except that rug thing she does?

I'm willing to bet that her discipline practices aren't in line with licensing either.

I hope they pay her a nice, big ole unannounced visit real soon.

THAT'S WHAT I WAS THINKING! My 6 are a handful when we get lots of outside time. I can't see ANY of them handling being confined to a small area for more than a few minutes without tears.

[laundrymom]

I think sometimes pandora a lid needs cracked to keep the world in check.
JMO

[Snowmom]

My license allows me 12 (10 under SA, only 2 under 2yrs old) and I actually find the days that I'm full to be so much easier than the days I only have 6.
I live in a cold climate too, so there are many days during the winter months that we're indoors, we're still active & happy.
I'm not by any means excusing bad care or not following regs, I'm just saying 12 is more than doable...and it's only me here.

[Thriftylady]

I am not sure how any provider could survive without outside time. It seems to make such a difference for the kids when they can run and get fresh air. I can't imagine staying cooped up with that many kids. Heck I don't like being cooped up with DH, I need to get outside too!

[Controlled Chaos]

Originally Posted by Snowmom

My license allows me 12 (10 under SA, only 2 under 2yrs old) and I actually find the days that I'm full to be so much easier than the days I only have 6.
I live in a cold climate too, so there are many days during the winter months that we're indoors, we're still active & happy.
I'm not by any means excusing bad care or not following regs, I'm just saying 12 is more than doable...and it's only me here.

I was thinking the same thing I have 8 plus my 4 and 5.5 year old (who don't count in my ratio) so 10 total and we try to spend time outside but in the winter sometimes the air gets bad here (high pollution) so we dance, play parachute, etc and they do fine. I actually do blanket centers for about 45 min a day while I make lunch (not excusing the provider in question but saying occasional blanket play has its place).

I do wish more parents knew about licensing rules. I know I didn't know ANYTHING when my dd was in a center way back when

[daycarediva]

Originally Posted by Controlled Chaos

I was thinking the same thing I have 8 plus my 4 and 5.5 year old (who don't count in my ratio) so 10 total and we try to spend time outside but in the winter sometimes the air gets bad here (high pollution) so we dance, play parachute, etc and they do fine. I actually do blanket centers for about 45 min a day while I make lunch (not excusing the provider in question but saying occasional blanket play has its place).

I do wish more parents knew about licensing rules. I know I didn't know ANYTHING when my dd was in a center way back when

I am SURE there are providers who can manage larger groups- just stating that she is out of ratio per our state regs. I would prefer 8 during the day I find the days I have my own younger sa kids here much smoother- but I am licensed for 6 under 5/not enrolled in K. The max for our state unless you are group and have an assistant. They even stipulate that should groups be divided, the ratios must be maintained.

[Ariana]

Originally Posted by daycarediva

I gave dcm a copy of the state regulations so that she could review them herself. She is sending me emails dating back 2 years (!) with admitted blatant violations. She posted on her mommy group on facebook that she had to pull kiddo from care immediately due to X, y, z and gave the link to all of the moms on there to the state regulations. She didn't name names, but her friends know where the kiddo attends. Two of the members of the group also have kids that attend there. One is doing a random stop at her lunch today.

She has been emailing me screenshots from other moms saying "Hey, my licensed provider does that, too!" "Wow I am seeing a lot of violations from my licensed provider." "My provider isn't licensed but said she is legal, she has 4 kids, that's not legal!"

I opened Pandora's box.

Every provider in my area might hate me soon.

I am so glad you did this! Honestly someone has too!! I just got a child who was kicked out of his current program because the provider had too many children (I saw this provider and she seemed to have at least 9 kids in her care which is illegal). There are so many providers not following regulations.

[Hunni Bee]

Yeah...I agree that 12 kids is manageable for most people. I've had 10 under 4 alone and been perfectly fine.

The no outside, no playing together, no singing, no dancing, no fun holidays... Basically sit and play Toys quietly all day...toddlers don't DO that. Unless they are forced in some way.. Which is why I wonder about her discipline methods.

I know you ladies can handle it!

[childcaremom]

Originally Posted by Ariana

I am so glad you did this! Honestly someone has too!! I just got a child who was kicked out of his current program because the provider had too many children (I saw this provider and she seemed to have at least 9 kids in her care which is illegal). There are so many providers not following regulations.

I've gotten 4 emails this past week from families scrambling for care because their providers were over ratio. I knew of one provider who had 15 kids enrolled (I don't think they were all there at the same time, at least I hope not!) when we are only allowed up to 6!

[Josiegirl]

Daycarediva, I'd be interested to know how the stop in at lunch time went for that one dcm. I think that's a big sign of the quality of a daycare, how the general atmosphere is when you pop in. I mean, there's always the normal and expected things, kids crying or bickering, a dcp trying to do a million things at once, etc., etc. But head counts(as long as regs. are followed), kids strapped in that shouldn't be, what they're fed for lunch, all those things you hear about.....You guys all know what I mean(I hope).
Wasn't there a parent here before that posted they dropped off something for their baby at dc, and found some things amiss? I feel parents have the right and should do that. Yes, it's inconvenient for us and can wreck the routine of things but looking from their side, it's a smart thing to do.