Licensing visit when children are NOT present???

[Lovisa]

Just curious how a licensing surprise visit would go if they showed up on a day where you aren't actually working. For example, this summer is going to be VERY light for me (a lot of school district parents) so there will be days where I am not working at all even though normally I would be. If my analyst showed up, how would they do their visit? Just check that all my paperwork is in order? Obviously, I do not keep the house kid proofed when kids aren't here (knives in the kitchen sink, toothpaste being left out, etc.). Would they just come back another day?

Just curious if anyone has had this happen. Thanks!

[Second Home]

I have had it happen twice. They do everything that they normally do with the exception of going over the things related directly to the children who are present .

For me I have to keep the house child proofed for the hours of care I am licensed for whether children are present or not .

Once I was painting in the basement and a mess when the knock on the door came. My licensing specialist was great about it . Did her visit and left .

[Lovisa]

Originally Posted by Second Home

For me I have to keep the house child proofed for the hours of care I am licensed for whether children are present or not

Thanks for the reply!

I am curious why this is? Is it like this everywhere? (I'm in Ca by the way) I would assume that no children present means I can do whatever I want in my home......

I'm confused why licensing would get to dictate how my home is kept if I'm not working (I'm asking in general, not you specifically lol).

[rosieteddy]

I would put a Daycare Closed sign when children are not there.Then you can open the door or not.

[daycarediva]

I email my registrar when I will be closed so she doesn't waste her time. I don't want to work (even an inspection) when I don't have to.

[Play Care]

Mine has shown up when I've been closed.
She's not done anything. If I am open and children are present then I have to let her in. If I'm closed (even on a day I'm normally open) I don't. Nor does my house have to be "day care ready" when children are not present.
I could email her when I'm closed but usually I don't think of it. She is aware I have mostly teacher kids so she's taking her chances showing up on a week when schools are closed.

[thrivingchildcarecom]

In Calif we are required to advise licensing whenever we are not open, i.e. vacation, extra holiday, etc. So depending on the analyst they might make that an issue if they were to arrive and you where not working or where not even there.

[Lovisa]

Originally Posted by thrivingchildcarecom

In Calif we are required to advise licensing whenever we are not open, i.e. vacation, extra holiday, etc. So depending on the analyst they might make that an issue if they were to arrive and you where not working or where not even there.

I didn't know this. I wonder why my analyst never informed me of this rule? Also, during the summers, my days off change weekly depending on a few parents schedules. Surely, my analyst would get sick of me calling her every Monday lol. I'll have to call her and see what she says I should do.

[thrivingchildcarecom]

Like I said it really depends on the analyst (can you say annoying) as to what they ultimately do. I always thought I would just send them an email or fax if I needed to be closed for the day. See if they say that is acceptable.

[Lovisa]

Originally Posted by thrivingchildcarecom

Like I said it really depends on the analyst (can you say annoying) as to what they ultimately do. I always thought I would just send them an email or fax if I needed to be closed for the day. See if they say that is acceptable.

My analyst has never given me her email but that is a good idea. If notifying her is required, email would be much easier than having to call

[BumbleBee]

Originally Posted by Lovisa

I didn't know this. I wonder why my analyst never informed me of this rule? Also, during the summers, my days off change weekly depending on a few parents schedules. Surely, my analyst would get sick of me calling her every Monday lol. I'll have to call her and see what she says I should do.

There`s a ton of rules my analysts have never informed me of. I am still expected to follow all of them and can be cited for any of them. When I first got licensed one of the requirements was to read the entire child care act and licensing handbook and sign a paper stating I have read both. They do this so that a provider cannot state they did not know a specific rule. My state also has a technical assistance manual available online explaining each rule and how to be in compliance with that rule.

So basically don't expect your analyst to make sure you know the rules.

[AmyKidsCo]

Originally Posted by thrivingchildcarecom

In Calif we are required to advise licensing whenever we are not open, i.e. vacation, extra holiday, etc. So depending on the analyst they might make that an issue if they were to arrive and you where not working or where not even there.

Same thing in WI - we're required to let our licensor know when we're closed. If I ended up having an unexpected day without children I'd probably email her just to be safe.

[MrsSteinel'sHouse]

If I know that I will not have kids, I have to inform my food program and I email the county at the same time. Some days it is a surprise... if I think they might be up because it is "that time of the year" I email. If I am light on kids like in the summer, I make sure I let them know.... usually a "hey XXXXX, just FYI right now my summer is light and Friday's are looking like I may only have two kidlets so we might be doing park days etc so if you decide to drop by then I might not be here. I just wanted to let you know." My inspector knows we go for walks in the mornings and if I don't answer the door.. she will usually wait around to see if I show back up. If I will not be home during a meal time I have to let the food program know. Now, I have had them show up on a day when I don't have any kidlets here and they have done a regular inspection. My childcare room is exclusively childcare. But, she didn't care about cleaner on counter etc. She did offer to come back another time. But, I really try to keep my inspector informed of what my schedule is like and when "best times" are. Like this winter Tuesday and Wednesday I had all three babies so I would send her an email saying that so she knew and could choose a different day that was easier to do. Oh and she knows not to come during naptime!!! Sacred at my house! She was here a couple of weeks ago on a Monday- I was actually being shadowed by a student that day and it worked out brilliantly!

[DaveA]

Originally Posted by daycarediva

I email my registrar when I will be closed so she doesn't waste her time. I don't want to work (even an inspection) when I don't have to.

I do the same thing. Save trouble from him knocking on my door when I'm not home or taking up my time when I'm doing something else.

[sharlan]

Originally Posted by thrivingchildcarecom

In Calif we are required to advise licensing whenever we are not open, i.e. vacation, extra holiday, etc. So depending on the analyst they might make that an issue if they were to arrive and you where not working or where not even there.

May I ask where you read this? In over 30 years I have never heard anyone else state this or read it.

I've discussed my frequent outings with different analysts and not one has said anything about informing them. In fact, I asked my last analyst about this 3 years ago and at that time he told me that he would leave his card on the door and return on a later date.

[Blackcat31]

I don't live in my daycare house so if I was closed, I simply wouldnt be here.

[NillaWafers]

Originally Posted by sharlan

May I ask where you read this? In over 30 years I have never heard anyone else state this or read it.

I've discussed my frequent outings with different analysts and not one has said anything about informing them. In fact, I asked my last analyst about this 3 years ago and at that time he told me that he would leave his card on the door and return on a later date.

There is nothing in the regulations about this, I've read them like 10x!!

[Heidi]

Originally Posted by AmyKidsCo

Same thing in WI - we're required to let our licensor know when we're closed. If I ended up having an unexpected day without children I'd probably email her just to be safe.

Yep!

And if they come and you say "I don't have kids", they have every right to check (during licensed hours). "I don't have kids" could very well mean that "I have am over my ratios and therefore all the children are hiding in closets".

It's been done!

[Blackcat31]

Originally Posted by Heidi

Yep!

And if they come and you say "I don't have kids", they have every right to check (during licensed hours). "I don't have kids" could very well mean that "I have am over my ratios and therefore all the children are hiding in closets".

It's been done!

We had a newish provider here that got a surprise visit and was found to have several more children in care than she was allowed. They (licensing) told her to have the parents all come pick up and they (licensing) would be back later in the day.

Amazingly when they came back, she was within ratios so it was all good.....until they decided to stop back a 3rd time. They counted almost 2 dozen kids there.... She was licensed for 10.

Her child care career was very short lived.

[Heidi]

Originally Posted by Blackcat31

We had a newish provider here that got a surprise visit and was found to have several more children in care than she was allowed. They (licensing) told her to have the parents all come pick up and they (licensing) would be back later in the day.

Amazingly when they came back, she was within ratios so it was all good.....until they decided to stop back a 3rd time. They counted almost 2 dozen kids there.... She was licensed for 10.

Her child care career was very short lived.

[Meeko]

Utah licensing can only inspect our homes if daycare children are present.

[Controlled Chaos]

Originally Posted by Meeko

Utah licensing can only inspect our homes if daycare children are present.

[Lovisa]

Update!

I spoke with my analyst. She was appreciative that I told her when my upcoming vacation was, but said that I don't need to let her know when I have a day or two a week without kiddos here through the summer. It isn't even mandatory to let her know when I will be gone for a few days, but it is nice to let her know so she doesn't make a trip here for nothing. She said if she shows up and I have no kids here, she will still do the inspection, and will still note stuff down (toothpaste left out, etc.), but will note that no daycare kids were present. Basically, during business hours, even with no kids here (aside from my own), I still have to be daycare ready, but little things here and there aren't going to be a big deal like they would be if kiddos WERE here.

[Heidi]

Originally Posted by Lovisa

Update!

I spoke with my analyst. She was appreciative that I told her when my upcoming vacation was, but said that I don't need to let her know when I have a day or two a week without kiddos here through the summer. It isn't even mandatory to let her know when I will be gone for a few days, but it is nice to let her know so she doesn't make a trip here for nothing. She said if she shows up and I have no kids here, she will still do the inspection, and will still note stuff down (toothpaste left out, etc.), but will note that no daycare kids were present. Basically, during business hours, even with no kids here (aside from my own), I still have to be daycare ready, but little things here and there aren't going to be a big deal like they would be if kiddos WERE here.

I would recommend that unless she emailed you this information (and therefore you have it in writing), you act with caution. Meaning, don't go by what she said. Go by what's written in the regs. During licensed hours, follow licensing rules, children present or not; unless you've notified her (in writing via email) that you are closed for a day. You absolutely need a "paper trail".

Protect you business, protect yourself.

[Lovisa]

Originally Posted by Heidi

I would recommend that unless she emailed you this information (and therefore you have it in writing), you act with caution. Meaning, don't go by what she said. Go by what's written in the regs. During licensed hours, follow licensing rules, children present or not; unless you've notified her (in writing via email) that you are closed for a day. You absolutely need a "paper trail".

Protect you business, protect yourself.

I couldn't find anything in the regs about visits while no children are present aside from:

(5) An unannounced site visit shall adhere to both of the following conditions:

(A) Visits shall take place only during normal business hours or at any time family child care services are being provided.

So obviously she can come even if kids aren't here, but I am not going to overly stress about the small stuff when I'm not even working. That just seems ridiculous to me lol. If I get "in trouble" for toothpaste being left on the counter when I'm not even caring for kids, I'm ok with that I guess. It wouldn't exactly be a "vacation" if I still stressed about every little thing! It is my home after all!

I will tell her about vacations when I won't be home simply because it is the polite thing to do.

I was told in a class that when you have verbal conversation with your licensor you should recap it in an email to them, ending with "if anything written here is incorrect please let me know by return email."
This leaves the ball in their court to correct any misunderstandings.
I think this was a Tom Copeland training.

[Lovisa]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I was told in a class that when you have verbal conversation with your licensor you should recap it in an email to them, ending with "if anything written here is incorrect please let me know by return email."
This leaves the ball in their court to correct any misunderstandings.
I think this was a Tom Copeland training.

Fantastic idea!

[Crystal]

Originally Posted by thrivingchildcarecom

In Calif we are required to advise licensing whenever we are not open, i.e. vacation, extra holiday, etc. So depending on the analyst they might make that an issue if they were to arrive and you where not working or where not even there.

This is not accurate. For the food program, yes you do. For CCLD, no you do not.

[AmyLeigh]

I've had licensing stop by for an inspection, oh at least 3 times when I either had no kids in care or was closed. I only have 2 dc kiddos right now, so if they aren't here, I'm closed! The analysts just said, "Okay I'll try back another time". They never even crossed the threshold of my front door. No problemo.

[grandmom]

It's good to know what your state requires. If I have no kids, and I let them in, they go forward as if I have kids. So if it's my day off and I let them in, but have toothpaste out, they can cite me for a violation. Know what your state's regs are.

[Lovisa]

Originally Posted by grandmom

It's good to know what your state requires. If I have no kids, and I let them in, they go forward as if I have kids. So if it's my day off and I let them in, but have toothpaste out, they can cite me for a violation. Know what your state's regs are.

I updated earlier but you may not have seen it. She told me (after I posted the original post) that even if I don't have kids, IF it is during business hours, she can inspect the home.

I have read my state regs but found nothing about these specifics which is why I asked. Seems to me, after reading on this forum, that there are MANY regs that aren't even listed and that a newer provider would not know unless asking. And many of these things wouldn't even be thought of until you are faced with it during a visit.