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  #1  
Old 08-25-2016, 09:58 AM
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Talking When You Like The Parents But Not The Child

You know how we providers always say that this business would be perfect if ti wasn't for the parents? The parents push our policies, dope and drop, pay late/don't pay etc.

Well here's a first for me ... I LOVE the parents of one of my DCK's. He's my newest client and I've had him for about 2 months and he's not a bad kid at all per say, there are just some concerns about his behavior and safety.
He's got some special needs going on and I've tried every trick in the book to help him transition into our routine and he does great for the most part ... until it's time to transition.

I keep our routine pretty much the same every day, have routine cards posted to remind him of what were doing, verbally remind him, set a timer that shows how much time he has in red so that he can see when it's close to time to clean up/do the next thing etc. and still about 75% of the time it results in a meltdown. He KNOWS it's almost time to do something else but still when the time comes to stop what we're doing he'll immediately start to yell and scream.

He also needs to be CONSTANTLY reminded of the rules. CONSTANTLY. For the most part I'm fine with this except for that he runs inside and since he's extremely non self aware and bigger (he's 5) I'm worried about when my own non mobile 7 month and 14 month DCB are having floor time on the carpet. He's always trying to step over them to get somewhere across them or jumps up and hops/jogs in place right where they are even if I have them both on one side of the area and even if I'm physically sitting between the littles and the other kids. He has accidentally kicked my 7mo DD on the head once early on because he doesn't watch where his body is, Not hard but enough to startle her and make her cry. That's when I started physically sitting between the smaller ones and him but there are times he tries to get around me and I have to physically put my arms out to block him. He's not being naughty, just not aware.

He got kicked out of his last daycare center and she was left in the lurch on a Friday with no daycare the following Monday which DCM was very honest about. He was kicked out because of his yelling/screaming which pretty much happens on a daily basis. Usually I just remind him that he's growing up not down and he'll stop but there have been times that he's gone on for 45 minutes.

Like I said he's 5. He's not potty trained. I think he has physical weakness as well, he got mad once and punched me but it was as hard as my 7mo so I don't think he has any strength (it was the first and ONLY time he ever did that, it happened on the 2nd day he was here and I made it clear to his mom and to him that if it became a pattern they'd be out). But still I'm afraid he'll fall on one of the smaller kids, or run into them and knock them down which has happened.

So the point ... I like the parents, LOVE them actually. They're proactive, follow all rules, pay on time, got him an IEP, and have put DCB in speech and occupational therapy. But my days just aren't as stress free as they were before him.
So now I have to term them because it's just not panning out for me and I have no other reason to term other than because he runs/jumps inside and because he yells.

I feel bad for them but I'm just not seeing an improvement and the yelling, running and jumping is stressing me out.
He's a great kid and a gentle giant, but his yelling and behavior (he is developmentally more like a 3 yo than a 5 yo) are getting tiresome.

So how do I term without making it seem like it's because of his special needs? The yelling is taking it's toll.
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Old 08-25-2016, 10:05 AM
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I have had a couple kids that I could not deal with and I really liked the parents! It really is a crappy situation because you feel like you should be able to deal with the behavior because it sooooo hard to get good parents. The combination of great parents and great kid is the holy grail of daycare
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Old 08-25-2016, 10:31 AM
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The combination of great parents and great kid is the holy grail of daycare
Right?!?
And yes, you're right. I feel terrible for the parents to some degree but I do plan on giving them twice the regular notice (one month) so that they can find something else. It's wearing on me and it's also taking a toll on the other kids.

He's a sweet kid, he just has no awareness of personal boundaries. Gets right up into other kids faces when he's excited and laughs/makes strange noises and the kids don't like it. Then they tell him that they want to play by themselves because he overwhelms them with the high activity noise (he's a loud talker too, and talks constantly) and he has meltdowns because the other kids are "being mean" to him and don't want him to play. He just doesn't understand.

So I have to term him but I'm worried that DCM will take it as if I'm terming because of his special need and she'll file a complaint for discrimination. She mentioned doing that when they were kicked out of the last daycare but I don't know what ever came out of that.
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Old 08-25-2016, 11:24 AM
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Can you begin a Behavior Plan and cite the EXACT behaviors that you need altered and what the consequences will be if they are not? At least that would provide a paper trail and show that you actively tried to keep him enrolled, however x, y, z did not change and for the safety of the group you had to terminate the contract.
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Old 08-25-2016, 11:41 AM
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I am the parent of a special needs child. It's a LOT of work, honestly I would go the route he needs more than you can offer (and he DOES) he needs a low ratio, he needs 1:1 help during transitions, he needs a SAFE place (safe for him AND peers) to run/jump and get the proprioceptive input he is craving. He needs special needs preschool/prek/K.

I would research some options in your area and come armed. You aren't terming because of his special needs, you were aware and took him on knowing he had them. You are terming because you cannot MEET his needs.

She can scream discrimination from the rooftop, but her child is not a typically developing child and he will not be able to have the same opportunities as other children his age. That's the reality.
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Old 08-25-2016, 11:48 AM
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Because he is 5, and has a IEP, he may qualify for some 1 on 1 programs through the public school, or headstart. When I was an assistant teacher in 3's preschool, there was a boy who acted almost exactly like you are describing. Mom knew that something was off, and worked with us to bring Keystone in and have him evaluated. They developed an IEP, and he was moved from our daycare preschool program to a program in the public school where he was in a very small class, and all children had 1 on 1 teachers.

On the days that school was closed and mo. Still needed to work he would come back to us as a drop-in, and he was a totally chNged child. He had learned to control himself, and he was learning to transition and to integrate into the group well.
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Old 08-25-2016, 12:33 PM
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Because he is 5, and has a IEP, he may qualify for some 1 on 1 programs through the public school, or headstart. When I was an assistant teacher in 3's preschool, there was a boy who acted almost exactly like you are describing. Mom knew that something was off, and worked with us to bring Keystone in and have him evaluated. They developed an IEP, and he was moved from our daycare preschool program to a program in the public school where he was in a very small class, and all children had 1 on 1 teachers.

On the days that school was closed and mo. Still needed to work he would come back to us as a drop-in, and he was a totally chNged child. He had learned to control himself, and he was learning to transition and to integrate into the group well.
She has tried to sign him up with Tri Counties (an organization in our county that offers programs and resources for kids with special needs) but is on a wait list because he does not have autism or down syndrome. She tried headstart, jumpstart and regular kindergarten but was denied enrollment because he isn't toilet trained. She did finally get him into speech and occupational therapy which he has been doing for about 4 weeks now once a week but I haven't seen an improvement here at daycare.

Maybe I can make a written plan of action but I don't see how he'd improve without him even being aware that there is an issue and I haven't been able to help him understand about boundaries or appropriate behavior and I've tried lots of different social-emotional activities.
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Old 08-25-2016, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa View Post
She has tried to sign him up with Tri Counties (an organization in our county that offers programs and resources for kids with special needs) but is on a wait list because he does not have autism or down syndrome. She tried headstart, jumpstart and regular kindergarten but was denied enrollment because he isn't toilet trained. She did finally get him into speech and occupational therapy which he has been doing for about 4 weeks now once a week but I haven't seen an improvement here at daycare.

Maybe I can make a written plan of action but I don't see how he'd improve without him even being aware that there is an issue and I haven't been able to help him understand about boundaries or appropriate behavior and I've tried lots of different social-emotional activities.
I'm confused. Typically at age three, children who are receiving special education services transition to a classroom setting. I know they have them all across California. They aren't just for children diagnosed with Autism. Generally, a variety of classes are available. (mild/moderate/severe/ASD) I don't understand why that option isn't available to him.

Regarding the behavior plan, I think it would be more for mom than the child. I have termed due to unsafe behavior once and safety was the issue. I gave the parents a set time to come up with a solution that worked for me. (I had tried everything) They didn't so I termed.

For the little guy, you have tried a lot in terms of transitions. One thing that may help is a transition object. A transition object can either be a comfort item (eg: favorite toy truck) or an item that clearly tells the child what the next activity will be. For example, grab a cup and say "let's have snack." I prefer the latter because then I don't risk have to pry a preferred toy out of the child's hand if they decide to stick it in the yogurt.

This is a tough situation, but you have to do what's best for the group as a whole.
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Old 08-25-2016, 02:33 PM
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This is something we talk to providers about sometimes. It is a misunderstanding that providers cannot turn away any child because of a disability. You are required to make reasonable accommodations for a disabled child. The ADA defines reasonable accommodations as something that doesn't fundamentally alter the nature of your services. So if one child is putting your other children at risk, or if you're having to rearrange your entire program for one child, you may have more rights than you think here. This is from the ADA website:

A public accommodation may refer an individual with a disability to another public accommodation, if that individual is seeking, or requires, treatment or services outside of the referring public accommodation´s area of specialization, and if, in the normal course of its operations, the referring public accommodation would make a similar referral for an individual without a disability who seeks or requires the same treatment or services.

You can read more here https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/titleII...tions.htm#a302

Hope that helps.
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Old 08-25-2016, 02:34 PM
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Oops! I posted the wrong segment of the Act!

Here it is:

A public accommodation shall make reasonable modifications in policies, practices, or procedures, when the modifications are necessary to afford goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations to individuals with disabilities, unless the public accommodation can demonstrate that making the modifications would fundamentally alter the nature of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations.
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Old 08-25-2016, 10:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daycarediva View Post
I am the parent of a special needs child. It's a LOT of work, honestly I would go the route he needs more than you can offer (and he DOES) he needs a low ratio, he needs 1:1 help during transitions, he needs a SAFE place (safe for him AND peers) to run/jump and get the proprioceptive input he is craving. He needs special needs preschool/prek/K.

I would research some options in your area and come armed. You aren't terming because of his special needs, you were aware and took him on knowing he had them. You are terming because you cannot MEET his needs.

She can scream discrimination from the rooftop, but her child is not a typically developing child and he will not be able to have the same opportunities as other children his age. That's the reality.
You are only one person, and you have tried to make it work. He needs the 1:1 for transitions, and for safety, should not be in mixed-age groups. Home daycare in general is probably not the best fit, even if there were no infants/toddlers (though there are always exceptions, it's unlikely that they'll find a home provider who meets ALL his needs and maintains the same level of care for the other kids)... He's probably better suited to a center, preferably one that is sensitive to inclusion and has experienced educators/staff.
It makes such a big difference when you have co-teachers around to support you, sometimes you've reached your limit (like when you've been patiently addressing a meltdown situation for a full hour!) and need someone else to "take over" so you can breathe & de-stress for a minute!

I commend you for hanging on and truly giving it your best effort, with a 7mo baby and the other kids too...And to give them a full month of notice is really awesome of you.
If they are upset with your decision, they're being unreasonable!!!
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Old 08-26-2016, 04:17 AM
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He's not allowed to attend public kindergarten???
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Old 08-26-2016, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by spedmommy4 View Post
I'm confused. Typically at age three, children who are receiving special education services transition to a classroom setting. I know they have them all across California. They aren't just for children diagnosed with Autism. Generally, a variety of classes are available. (mild/moderate/severe/ASD) I don't understand why that option isn't available to him.

Regarding the behavior plan, I think it would be more for mom than the child. I have termed due to unsafe behavior once and safety was the issue. I gave the parents a set time to come up with a solution that worked for me. (I had tried everything) They didn't so I termed.

For the little guy, you have tried a lot in terms of transitions. One thing that may help is a transition object. A transition object can either be a comfort item (eg: favorite toy truck) or an item that clearly tells the child what the next activity will be. For example, grab a cup and say "let's have snack." I prefer the latter because then I don't risk have to pry a preferred toy out of the child's hand if they decide to stick it in the yogurt.

This is a tough situation, but you have to do what's best for the group as a whole.
He's five, but developmentally, verbally and socially he's like a 3 year old
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Old 08-26-2016, 04:40 PM
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He's not allowed to attend public kindergarten???
No, he's not potty trained. He's still in pull-ups and doesn't tell anyone when he needs to go to the bathroom or even after he has already gone.
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Old 08-26-2016, 04:46 PM
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I gave DCD the term letter today. I just gave them a vague letter and when DCD asked me about it I just told him I needed to reduce my numbers and workload because of my back, which isn't untrue. We were rear ended a couple of months ago and my back isn't feeling any better and I spend the majority of my day is spent running around after DCB.

He understood and left and already I feel more relieved
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Old 08-26-2016, 05:22 PM
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He's five, but developmentally, verbally and socially he's like a 3 year old
It sounds like his developmental skills are the reason why he qualified for an IEP, and also why he would benefit greatly from a special education classroom. He's 5 now, which means he qualifies (by age) to be in a special education Kindergarten classroom. Because he is on an IEP, he doesn't have to be potty trained. (My daughter wasn't ). Potty training can take a long time when delays are significant.

When my own daughter was Kindergarten age, the California district we were in tried to pressure me into accepting weekly therapy or an additional year of SPED preschool. That wasn't developmentally appropriate for her at the time. I advocated for her at the meeting and she started that year. Unfortunately, not all parents know that they can and should advocate.

If the parents do want him in school, they should go back to the district and request a meeting to discuss options. Lack of potty training is not a reason to keep a child out of school, especially if he needs it.
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Old 08-29-2016, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by spedmommy4 View Post
It sounds like his developmental skills are the reason why he qualified for an IEP, and also why he would benefit greatly from a special education classroom. He's 5 now, which means he qualifies (by age) to be in a special education Kindergarten classroom. Because he is on an IEP, he doesn't have to be potty trained. (My daughter wasn't ). Potty training can take a long time when delays are significant.

When my own daughter was Kindergarten age, the California district we were in tried to pressure me into accepting weekly therapy or an additional year of SPED preschool. That wasn't developmentally appropriate for her at the time. I advocated for her at the meeting and she started that year. Unfortunately, not all parents know that they can and should advocate.

If the parents do want him in school, they should go back to the district and request a meeting to discuss options. Lack of potty training is not a reason to keep a child out of school, especially if he needs it.
I'll relay the message to DCM about him not needing to be potty trained if he has an IEP. Hopefully she does something soon because it took me almost 2 months of waiting just for her to get him into therapy. He had his assessment in January, she just never set his appointments
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Old 08-30-2016, 12:41 PM
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It sounds like his developmental skills are the reason why he qualified for an IEP, and also why he would benefit greatly from a special education classroom. He's 5 now, which means he qualifies (by age) to be in a special education Kindergarten classroom. Because he is on an IEP, he doesn't have to be potty trained. (My daughter wasn't ). Potty training can take a long time when delays are significant.

When my own daughter was Kindergarten age, the California district we were in tried to pressure me into accepting weekly therapy or an additional year of SPED preschool. That wasn't developmentally appropriate for her at the time. I advocated for her at the meeting and she started that year. Unfortunately, not all parents know that they can and should advocate.

If the parents do want him in school, they should go back to the district and request a meeting to discuss options. Lack of potty training is not a reason to keep a child out of school, especially if he needs it.
I was about to say, it sounds like they registered him and he was placed in special ed. When the parents didn't like that, they were told he had to be potty trained to be in the regular kindergarten. Kindergarten isn't required in many states. The parents decided not to do public school this year. This is going to be a losing battle for them. They should have just put him in the special ed kinder. I used to work in a public school. He must really have issues if the school registered him for special ed. Usually, a lot of children attend regular kindergarten and special ed as they get older and can't keep up with peers.
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Old 08-31-2016, 12:32 AM
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I was about to say, it sounds like they registered him and he was placed in special ed. When the parents didn't like that, they were told he had to be potty trained to be in the regular kindergarten. Kindergarten isn't required in many states. The parents decided not to do public school this year. This is going to be a losing battle for them. They should have just put him in the special ed kinder. I used to work in a public school. He must really have issues if the school registered him for special ed. Usually, a lot of children attend regular kindergarten and special ed as they get older and can't keep up with peers.
*sigh* This is what I feel like happened. I mentioned to DCM today that he can go to kinder and that they'd be able to accommodate him and offer support with his needs and she looked like she didn't like that. Gave me the feeling that she didn't want him in special ed.

I then also offered the info of a provider friend that I have known and she's very good. I spoke to my provider friend first of course and mentioned the issues that I had. She has much more experience with this type of thing and even currently already has another child about the same age, same abilities, also not toilet trained etc. that she thought would be great as a buddy for my DCB. She used to be a teacher before she opened her daycare and she was excited to be able to work with both of them as a pair. Well, mom didn't like something that I said when I told her today that my friend had an opening. I could see it in her face.

She was concerned that the provider wasn't already contracted through our local child care subsidy program. It takes about 3-4 weeks to sign up as a contracted provider and DCM complained that she didn't have the money to pay for daycare for that long while they waited for her to get contracted. I tried explaining that if DCM started the process now she could finish out her month here while she waited for the other provider to get contracted and when finalized she could switch over and there wouldn't be any lapse. I guess that was too much trouble.

Well, I did my part. I gave them plenty of notice, suggested kinder (free), and even pretty much lined up their next provider for them and none of it was good for her. She told me that she didn't know what she was going to do and that maybe I'd change my mind.
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Old 08-31-2016, 09:46 AM
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*sigh* This is what I feel like happened. I mentioned to DCM today that he can go to kinder and that they'd be able to accommodate him and offer support with his needs and she looked like she didn't like that. Gave me the feeling that she didn't want him in special ed.

I then also offered the info of a provider friend that I have known and she's very good. I spoke to my provider friend first of course and mentioned the issues that I had. She has much more experience with this type of thing and even currently already has another child about the same age, same abilities, also not toilet trained etc. that she thought would be great as a buddy for my DCB. She used to be a teacher before she opened her daycare and she was excited to be able to work with both of them as a pair. Well, mom didn't like something that I said when I told her today that my friend had an opening. I could see it in her face.

She was concerned that the provider wasn't already contracted through our local child care subsidy program. It takes about 3-4 weeks to sign up as a contracted provider and DCM complained that she didn't have the money to pay for daycare for that long while they waited for her to get contracted. I tried explaining that if DCM started the process now she could finish out her month here while she waited for the other provider to get contracted and when finalized she could switch over and there wouldn't be any lapse. I guess that was too much trouble.

Well, I did my part. I gave them plenty of notice, suggested kinder (free), and even pretty much lined up their next provider for them and none of it was good for her. She told me that she didn't know what she was going to do and that maybe I'd change my mind.
ugh! It does sound like she is refusing to accept the diagnosis/delays and is hoping a year will help the child catch up.

You did what you could, and what was best for the child.
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Old 08-31-2016, 12:14 PM
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*sigh* This is what I feel like happened. I mentioned to DCM today that he can go to kinder and that they'd be able to accommodate him and offer support with his needs and she looked like she didn't like that. Gave me the feeling that she didn't want him in special ed.

I then also offered the info of a provider friend that I have known and she's very good. I spoke to my provider friend first of course and mentioned the issues that I had. She has much more experience with this type of thing and even currently already has another child about the same age, same abilities, also not toilet trained etc. that she thought would be great as a buddy for my DCB. She used to be a teacher before she opened her daycare and she was excited to be able to work with both of them as a pair. Well, mom didn't like something that I said when I told her today that my friend had an opening. I could see it in her face.

She was concerned that the provider wasn't already contracted through our local child care subsidy program. It takes about 3-4 weeks to sign up as a contracted provider and DCM complained that she didn't have the money to pay for daycare for that long while they waited for her to get contracted. I tried explaining that if DCM started the process now she could finish out her month here while she waited for the other provider to get contracted and when finalized she could switch over and there wouldn't be any lapse. I guess that was too much trouble.

Well, I did my part. I gave them plenty of notice, suggested kinder (free), and even pretty much lined up their next provider for them and none of it was good for her. She told me that she didn't know what she was going to do and that maybe I'd change my mind.
Just be clear that there is no chance you will change your mind. It is really unfortunate because, without appropriate intervention, significant delays don't magically improve. The most likely scenario here is that he is going to get invited to leave a few more childcare settings before mom realizes he needs a different setting.
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