Parents Who Keep Their Kids Up Late

[Pestle]

My 16-mo dcb just slow-mo toppled out of his chair onto the dining room floor, wailed about it for a minute, sighed, and lay down again on the floor to sleep.

Temp is normal and he's happily napping now (on a mat). He has been a nightmare today. Restless and aggressive. Not interested in settling down to play with anything or read a book as usual.

The mother has mentioned several times that they've been out camping late or doing other activities late at night. I don't know their regular schedule.

Is this note on his daily report going to unnecessarily open up a can of worms? I will talk to the parents at pick up, but I want it documented (I'm keeping a copy).

"[child] was tired. Morning was challenging: spitting, stomping on toys, throwing things at me. He ate lunch, then lay down on the dining room floor and fell asleep. Forehead temp was 98.1.

Toddlers need at least 12 hours of sleep. The day care provides a 2-hour nap. Please make sure [child] is put to bed early enough each night to get 10 hours of sleep so he has a happy, productive day."

[Pestle]

Oh, FUGGEDABOUTIT. His sister just passed out facedown in her lunch plate. He's not sick.

[daycarediva]

It is the new non parenting and it drives me bonkers. I specifically go over bedtime and sleep routines with parents at interview. It's maddening! I hear you!

I would KEEP mentioning it. 'Jr was sleepy today, he really could use an early bedtime tonight!'

I just extended our rest time- most of my kids were OUT for the 90-120 minutes, so I bumped it to 12-3. They mostly out the entire time. Mondays it's AWFUL, they're dying to sleep before lunch. By Friday we are all back in routine, short 60-90 minute rest.

[thrivingchildcarecom]

I actually love sending notes to the parents like this. Just like you said it documents that you have communicated with the parents about their child. I try to word notes so that parents recognize the benefit for whatever it the issue is, is more for their child than for me.

Here is a note I send out regularly to all the families:
"JUST A REMINDER: On weekends & off days, when possible it is best to try to keep as close to the daily schedule the children follow here, especially nap times. Also, remember to try to keep arrivals and departure times as consistent as possible. It helps your child not to have such a hard transition on their next day here in care."

Sadly parents don't get it sometimes and I think they tend to think we are complaining when it is really their child that is the one suffering.

[spedmommy4]

No words of wisdom but wanted to share . . . I've read a few articles recently about how important getting adequate sleep is for young children. One talked about how growth hormones are secreted during the last few hours of REM sleep. It said consistent lack of sleep can affect a child's growth. (Couldn't find the link to the article)

The second article talks about how sleep impacts intelligence.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/ar...ter-child.html

[Pestle]

So, I told the parents about the sad, sad day their kids had--the aggressive behavior, and falling asleep at the table, and that even after napping they were still out of sorts, and that they didn't focus on any activities or join in any songs or finish their art projects--and the parents were just CRACKING UP. They kept saying, "Silly kids!" as if the children were clowning around instead of miserable all day. And they said, "We didn't get them to bed any later than normal last night--maybe 9:30. Well, we did wake them up at 6:00. But 9:30 is normal for them!"

So I told them that our daughter's bedtime is 7:30, and that toddlers need at least 10 hours of sleep plus a nap, but they kind of ignored me.

[permanentvacation]

Almost every daycare child that I have gotten in the past year or so was kept up late. Many of my 2-4 year olds' bedtime was 11 pm to midnight. One of their parents never knew when their daughter went to bed. The mother would always tell me, "I don't know when she went to bed. I went to bed at midnight and she was still up running around." I gave up trying to teach parents how to be parents and I simply started having a morning and afternoon nap in daycare. For the longest time, I tried to keep the kids up until afternoon nap. But after months of fussing with 2 - 4 year olds, I gave in and started having 2 naps per day.

I started weeding out the kids/families that didn't work well in my program and the group of kids that I have now all have what I would consider 'normal' bedtimes at home and I'm back to having my normal daycare schedule.

[Scout]

My just recently turned 5 year old had no set bedtime until last week, the week before he would start Kindergarten. He was a fully functioning, happy kid, but, he also had nowhere to go early in the morning (no wake up time either). He just woke up when he woke up. As soon as I knew he was going to be waking up at 7 for school, we began a nightly routine. We have been reading early readers nightly around 8:15-8:30 and then he is allowed to watch a little tv or his kindle until 9. He has been putting his kindle down after a few minutes each night when he is ready for sleep. He used to nap at 5 pm if he did and I was ok with it because he is a good kid and will entertain himself in our room (his and mine) while I watched tv and got sleepy. He always cleaned up his toys because I instill in him it's important to clean up the floor so I don't kill myself in the morning!

While, I agree that a lot of kids don't get enough sleep, I also think that putting a toddler to bed only a few hours after they get picked up from daycare is too early. When I worked outside the home, our son's bedtime was 8:30 when I got off work at 4. No way would I have put him down earlier because that was our time together. Kids don't get enough time with parents these days because the work day plus commute is too long. It always saddens me that some kids spend 10 hours with me and 3 with Mom and Dad and then are put to bed. I do see how it can be an issue though for the following day. I would probably also do a short morning nap and a longer afternoon if that were the case here.

[Blackcat31]

Originally Posted by Scout

My just recently turned 5 year old had no set bedtime until last week, the week before he would start Kindergarten. He was a fully functioning, happy kid, but, he also had nowhere to go early in the morning (no wake up time either). He just woke up when he woke up. As soon as I knew he was going to be waking up at 7 for school, we began a nightly routine. We have been reading early readers nightly around 8:15-8:30 and then he is allowed to watch a little tv or his kindle until 9. He has been putting his kindle down after a few minutes each night when he is ready for sleep. He used to nap at 5 pm if he did and I was ok with it because he is a good kid and will entertain himself in our room (his and mine) while I watched tv and got sleepy. He always cleaned up his toys because I instill in him it's important to clean up the floor so I don't kill myself in the morning!

While, I agree that a lot of kids don't get enough sleep, I also think that putting a toddler to bed only a few hours after they get picked up from daycare is too early. When I worked outside the home, our son's bedtime was 8:30 when I got off work at 4. No way would I have put him down earlier because that was our time together. Kids don't get enough time with parents these days because the work day plus commute is too long. It always saddens me that some kids spend 10 hours with me and 3 with Mom and Dad and then are put to bed. I do see how it can be an issue though for the following day. I would probably also do a short morning nap and a longer afternoon if that were the case here.

I totally agree!

Except my kids still went to bed a couple hours after I picked them up from care.

Instead we got up earlier and had our facetime in the morning.

This eliminates the issue the next day.

All parents have the same 24 hours in a day.

[EntropyControlSpecialist]

My almost 3yo daughter goes to bed at 8:30pm. Last night she went to bed at 9:20pm and was a BEAR today. An absolute terror for me. I would suggest very directly that they try getting them to bed an hour earlier.

[Ariana]

Originally Posted by Scout

My just recently turned 5 year old had no set bedtime until last week, the week before he would start Kindergarten. He was a fully functioning, happy kid, but, he also had nowhere to go early in the morning (no wake up time either). He just woke up when he woke up. As soon as I knew he was going to be waking up at 7 for school, we began a nightly routine. We have been reading early readers nightly around 8:15-8:30 and then he is allowed to watch a little tv or his kindle until 9. He has been putting his kindle down after a few minutes each night when he is ready for sleep. He used to nap at 5 pm if he did and I was ok with it because he is a good kid and will entertain himself in our room (his and mine) while I watched tv and got sleepy. He always cleaned up his toys because I instill in him it's important to clean up the floor so I don't kill myself in the morning!

While, I agree that a lot of kids don't get enough sleep, I also think that putting a toddler to bed only a few hours after they get picked up from daycare is too early. When I worked outside the home, our son's bedtime was 8:30 when I got off work at 4. No way would I have put him down earlier because that was our time together. Kids don't get enough time with parents these days because the work day plus commute is too long. It always saddens me that some kids spend 10 hours with me and 3 with Mom and Dad and then are put to bed. I do see how it can be an issue though for the following day. I would probably also do a short morning nap and a longer afternoon if that were the case here.

This is what stood out to me about what you said. My childs time with me is more important than my childs need for sleep. Sleep is the single most important thing in a childs life. It is the same as saying " I don't give give water because it interrupts my time with him".

If you want facetime with your child you can find a way to do it without disrupting his basic need for sleep. I see the same type of parents at my daycare. It is all about the parents needs. I have a 7 yr old and a 3 yr old. The 3 yr old is in bed at 7pm and the 7 yr old is in bed at 8pm. No matter where we are or what we are doing this is their bedtime.

[Pestle]

Please remember that you are in control of the electric lights, which basically makes you God of the Sun in the modern world. The human circadian rhythm is in sync with a world that no longer exists--one in which it GETS DARK when the sun goes down. Kids' bodies naturally respond to light, so keeping their environment as bright as day late into the evening is a big part of why you may think your kids aren't sleepy.

[Scout]

Originally Posted by Ariana

This is what stood out to me about what you said. My childs time with me is more important than my childs need for sleep. Sleep is the single most important thing in a childs life. It is the same as saying " I don't give give water because it interrupts my time with him".

If you want facetime with your child you can find a way to do it without disrupting his basic need for sleep. I see the same type of parents at my daycare. It is all about the parents needs. I have a 7 yr old and a 3 yr old. The 3 yr old is in bed at 7pm and the 7 yr old is in bed at 8pm. No matter where we are or what we are doing this is their bedtime.

Well, I guess we can agree to disagree on that because as a working parent back then, I felt our time together was mors important than him getting one extra 1/2 hour of sleep. I am 39 and lost my mother last winter. My kids were born when I was 31 and 35. I'm sprry, but, life is much too short to worry about stuff like this when my kids got adequete sleep, just not on what others consider a decent schedule. Putting him to bed at 8:30 when he was a baby and toddler is not a decision I regret. Because not only was it my time with him, it was HIS time with me.

[mommyneedsadayoff]

Originally Posted by Scout

Well, I guess we can agree to disagree on that because as a working parent back then, I felt our time together was mors important than him getting one extra 1/2 hour of sleep. I am 39 and lost my mother last winter. My kids were born when I was 31 and 35. I'm sprry, but, life is much too short to worry about stuff like this when my kids got adequete sleep, just not on what others consider a decent schedule. Putting him to bed at 8:30 when he was a baby and toddler is not a decision I regret. Because not only was it my time with him, it was HIS time with me.

I agree. Face time with parents, sleep, healthy nutrition, ect., are all important and a healthy balance of all of them is great imo. My kids go to bed at 8:30 for the most part, but sometimes it is a little earlier and sometimes in the summer, it is a little later. I feel bad when kids are picked up and rushed home for a quick dinner and then bedtime. If they get no time in the morning and very little in the evening with their parents, I feel like that can contribute to sleep issues. They tend to want that attention and try to make up for it during what should be sleeping time. I know for my daughter, if she doesn't get much time with me during the day, she will come in my room in the middle of the night to sleep near me almost every time. If they get plenty of mom and dad time, she stays in her room and bed time is a breeze. I am sure it is different for every kid, but I aim for 10-12 hours of sleep each night for my kids as it seems to lead to them at their best and happiest. Any less than 10 for my daughter and watch out!

[MarinaVanessa]

I'm going to probably be the odd one out here but I'm okay with that ... I worry about what I do with the children and deal with their behavior when they're in my care and I let the parents worry about what the kids do and their behavior at home. I don't dictate what they do with their kids on their own time just like I expect them not to dictate to me what I do on my time.

[Pestle]

Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa

I'm going to probably be the odd one out here but I'm okay with that ... I worry about what I do with the children and deal with their behavior when they're in my care and I let the parents worry about what the kids do and their behavior at home. I don't dictate what they do with their kids on their own time just like I expect them not to dictate to me what I do on my time.

I worry about kids biting me, spitting on me, tearing my possessions up, and falling headfirst onto my floor because they were just that sleepy.

[Ariana]

Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa

I'm going to probably be the odd one out here but I'm okay with that ... I worry about what I do with the children and deal with their behavior when they're in my care and I let the parents worry about what the kids do and their behavior at home. I don't dictate what they do with their kids on their own time just like I expect them not to dictate to me what I do on my time.

This is me pretty much. I state my concerns with parents and if they don't listen then I do what is best for the child on my watch.

[Ariana]

Originally Posted by Scout

Well, I guess we can agree to disagree on that because as a working parent back then, I felt our time together was mors important than him getting one extra 1/2 hour of sleep. I am 39 and lost my mother last winter. My kids were born when I was 31 and 35. I'm sprry, but, life is much too short to worry about stuff like this when my kids got adequete sleep, just not on what others consider a decent schedule. Putting him to bed at 8:30 when he was a baby and toddler is not a decision I regret. Because not only was it my time with him, it was HIS time with me.

It is odd and maybe I misread your post but you mentioned him using his kindle and watching tv. To me that is not quality time with you. I can 100% guarantee you did not spend all that time with your child.

[MarinaVanessa]

Originally Posted by Pestle

I worry about kids biting me, spitting on me, tearing my possessions up, and falling headfirst onto my floor because they were just that sleepy.

Then my focus and my talk with the parents would be on those things that were happening on my watch, not particularly on the reason. I guess I don't particularly care about the "why", I only care about the "what".

My discussion would be "Hey DCM your child was extremely aggressive today. DCK threw toys, damaged furniture and bit me. None of this is ok. If the behavior doesn't improve then you're going to need to look for other daycare arrangements. What is your plan?".

Honestly, we can talk to parents until we're blue in the face but that doesn't mean they'll listen. I'd say that in my time doing family daycare maybe about 15% of parents with children of challenging behavior actually did something to improve their child's behavior. maybe another 10% did something after being told that I'd have to terminate care if they didn't change something. The rest didn't change one thing and I had to terminate. I'm just saying that most parents don't want to be told how to parent.

[childcaremom]

Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa

Then my focus and my talk with the parents would be on those things that were happening on my watch, not particularly on the reason. I guess I don't particularly care about the "why", I only care about the "what".

My discussion would be "Hey DCM your child was extremely aggressive today. DCK threw toys, damaged furniture and bit me. None of this is ok. If the behavior doesn't improve then you're going to need to look for other daycare arrangements. What is your plan?".

Honestly, we can talk to parents until we're blue in the face but that doesn't mean they'll listen. I'd say that in my time doing family daycare maybe about 15% of parents with children of challenging behavior actually did something to improve their child's behavior. maybe another 10% did something after being told that I'd have to terminate care if they didn't change something. The rest didn't change one thing and I had to terminate. I'm just saying that most parents don't want to be told how to parent.

[Scout]

Originally Posted by Ariana

It is odd and maybe I misread your post but you mentioned him using his kindle and watching tv. To me that is not quality time with you. I can 100% guarantee you did not spend all that time with your child.

That is now after we have read 3-4 books. He always watches tv or plays his kindle before bed, as part of his routine at night. I don't understand why you are being so judgmental when you don't know the relationship I have with my children?? My child who just started kindergarten this week was home with me from the time he was 18 mos old until now, when he is 5. The child I said I put to bed at 8:30 is my oldest and he was at daycare from 6:30 in the am til around 4 pm....so YES, I did spend the whole night with him before putting him to sleep at 8:30. I thought I was clear this was when I worked outside of the home. Times were different and because of that time, no way would I judge a parent for wanting to spend more than 2-3 hours at night with their child after they pick them up from us. Sometimes, I think some providers seem to forget the other side. Being a working parent who works outside of the home is a whole different situation than being one who works inside the home, with your child there all day with you. Different amounts of time spent with your child for each, so, Yes, I would never begrudge a parent for keeping their child up a little later to make up for lost time. Their child will not remember that sleep, but, they will remember curling up with mommy or daddy and spending time with them.

MarinaVanessa, you are exactly what I am talking about and that is how I feel in this. It is not up to us when a parent should be putting their child to bed. I've been on the other side and know how precious and short those hours after work are, especially when you factor in dinner, cleaning up, etc. Working parents still need to do all their own stuff and get a decent amount of sleep themselves.

[MunchkinWrangler]

Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa

I'm going to probably be the odd one out here but I'm okay with that ... I worry about what I do with the children and deal with their behavior when they're in my care and I let the parents worry about what the kids do and their behavior at home. I don't dictate what they do with their kids on their own time just like I expect them not to dictate to me what I do on my time.

Agree 100%!! I don't make their problems mine, I just deal with what I can while they are in my care. My #1 house rule (it was with my ds and now with daycare), verbatim: if you're crabby, you go bed. End of story. Has always solved any issues.