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  #1  
Old 08-23-2016, 10:39 PM
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I have a family and mom not only dresses her 4 year old in girl clothes which I have no problem with even though the child says mom picked it out. But mom n dad are separated and dad hates that she dresses him like a girl bc the child doesn't care what he dresses in as long as it's clothes. Dad asked if there was anything I could say to her. And I apologized and told him I didn't really feel comfortable saying anything but the fact I do feel bad for the child bc he is getting made fun of and there is only so much I can do or the teachers can do. We don't allow bullying but I can't stop everything. And I tried to explain that to mom as well but she was upset.maybe I stepped over the line by saying anything other than I'm sorry she did it again.... Buttttt this all wouldn't be weird or anything besides she's dressing her other son with a different dad like a girl and he's not even in the toddler room like bows in his hair pink this purple that. Butterfly sleepers. Idk maybe I'm thinking too much about it all I just feel like somethings not right like why would you do that to your kids if they want to that's different but you can't tell me she's not a little crazy just needing some help idk what I should do anymore.....
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Old 08-24-2016, 01:25 AM
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I would contact CPS and see what they have to say. It sounds to me like mom may have an undiagnosed mental illness.
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Old 08-24-2016, 03:23 AM
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I would contact CPS and see what they have to say. It sounds to me like mom may have an undiagnosed mental illness.
I agree you need to speak with a professional about this; calling CPS doesn't mean they'll do anything, just get their opinion. Or you could call your local cc resource agency and ask.
I'm dumbfounded and have never come across anything quite like that. Is this something recent due to the split/stress, etc. or has she been doing this right along?
I have a dcb(8 yo) whose Barbie collection surpasses most little girls' and he dresses up here with all our girlish stuff, but never once has he come dressed in girl's clothes. This is definitely something that is within the mom's whims/needs and if the little guy is getting picked on, she should seek help if she cannot stop.
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Old 08-24-2016, 05:18 AM
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Is she raising him gender-neutral? That's a thing. Gender-neutral parents let their kids choose from a variety of clothing types. They're trying to avoid exactly the social stigma you're so concerned about--the one where you think CPS should be called for a boy in girl's clothing.
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Old 08-24-2016, 05:46 AM
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Honestly I'm not sure about the Gender neutral thing I'm not very well informed on it so I'm not sure if it's that crazy or maybe in the norm. I told mom n repeatedly that I didn't have a problem what he came in but that I felt bad for him and wanted her to keep an eye out bc Ik what bullying can do at such a young age. She got offensive and I wasn't even trying to make it an issue until I got all my information and knew exactly what to do. Bc it's not just one child and that makes me think she's trying to push something on her boys I'm going to make a call to cps today and get some information
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Old 08-24-2016, 05:54 AM
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So when you told her it wasn't a problem, what did you expect her to hear? "It's such a big problem that I'm going to try to get your child taken from his home and placed in foster care"? Or, "It's not a problem, but because other children are bullying your child, I'm going to do the grown-up version of bullying"? Because she might not have gotten that subtext from "It's not a problem."

Is he bathed? Is his clothing clean and appropriate to the season? Are you maybe getting swept up in a he-said/she-said thing between the parents?

Is it possible that your job here is to address the fact that other kids in your care are bullying him? You say "There is only so much I can do" when it comes to the bad behavior of children you're responsible for, but you certainly are pulling out the hammer when it comes to this particular child.
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Old 08-24-2016, 06:28 AM
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Is she raising him gender-neutral? That's a thing. Gender-neutral parents let their kids choose from a variety of clothing types. They're trying to avoid exactly the social stigma you're so concerned about--the one where you think CPS should be called for a boy in girl's clothing.
Parents who raise their children to be gender neutral don't CHOOSE to dress their child in clothing generally worn on the opposite gender.

Gender neutral means exactly that. Nothing that denotes the gender of the child.

In this case, the mother is dressing the male child like a girl child (or what society feels is generally female clothing).

I think notifying CPS is a good idea.

NOT because the child is in any immediate physical danger or because the child wears pink or purple clothing (who cares) but I think a call to CPS might be warranted because of possible mental illness. Seems the subject has been brought up to mom before and she is aware of her child being teased/bullied because of it and yet she still does it.

I would NOT be concerned about a pink or purple shirt or butterfly anything as I don't feel those are strictly limited to a female wardrobe. What I would be concerned about is the bows in the child's hair and the deliberate attempt to make the baby look like a female.

Since this child is an infant, the child did not pick out the items to wear. Makes me wonder if mom isn't suffering from postpartum maybe?

Also OP stated in her first post that when she tried to inform mom about the bullying, she got upset.

So mom knows about the situation she is creating for her child yet continues to put him in harms way.
That warrants a call to CPS in my honest opinion.

I've dealt with mental illness in a parent before and I will be the first to say a "perfect portrait" doesn't always tell the full story. The children don't have to be unkempt, unfed or in poor physical condition to signal abuse.
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Old 08-24-2016, 06:50 AM
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I believe the OP said the child is 4, and is saying that mom is picking out his clothing. He is not choosing to dress in "girl" clothes (which for arguments sake I'll assume means obviously "feminine" clothing such as dresses, not the color of the garment being worn)

It might not be "pc" but I feel there is a huge difference between a child deciding to wear a dress because they like it and not having that decision because the parent forces them to dress that way.

That said, I agree that I would not allow other children to tease or bully another child.
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Old 08-24-2016, 06:51 AM
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The OP said " only so much I can do or the teachers can do."

OP, are you the director? If not, are you working with the teachers and director on this, or just planning to call CPS under your own authority?

Some gender-neutral parents are very proud of dressing their boys in ruffles and bows. The philosophy is neutrality, not androgyny. Do some internet research before you decide you're an expert in the silly, confusing behaviors of 21st-century parents.
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Old 08-24-2016, 07:06 AM
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I don't think anyone is claiming to be an expert. I think it really comes down to whether the child is choosing these clothes, or if the mom is forcing it. If the mom is making her boys wear 'girly' clothes, that's not very forward, is it? How is that better than forcing a girl to wear sparkles and bows, when she prefers a baseball jersey?
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Old 08-24-2016, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
Parents who raise their children to be gender neutral don't CHOOSE to dress their child in clothing generally worn on the opposite gender.

Gender neutral means exactly that. Nothing that denotes the gender of the child.

In this case, the mother is dressing the male child like a girl child (or what society feels is generally female clothing).

I think notifying CPS is a good idea.

NOT because the child is in any immediate physical danger or because the child wears pink or purple clothing (who cares) but I think a call to CPS might be warranted because of possible mental illness. Seems the subject has been brought up to mom before and she is aware of her child being teased/bullied because of it and yet she still does it.

I would NOT be concerned about a pink or purple shirt or butterfly anything as I don't feel those are strictly limited to a female wardrobe. What I would be concerned about is the bows in the child's hair and the deliberate attempt to make the baby look like a female.

Since this child is an infant, the child did not pick out the items to wear. Makes me wonder if mom isn't suffering from postpartum maybe?

Also OP stated in her first post that when she tried to inform mom about the bullying, she got upset.

So mom knows about the situation she is creating for her child yet continues to put him in harms way.
That warrants a call to CPS in my honest opinion.

I've dealt with mental illness in a parent before and I will be the first to say a "perfect portrait" doesn't always tell the full story. The children don't have to be unkempt, unfed or in poor physical condition to signal abuse.
"The children don't have to be unkempt, unfed or in poor physical condition to signal abuse."

I agree, some of the most well dressed, clean and healthy looking people have been abused.
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  #12  
Old 08-24-2016, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Pestle View Post
Some gender-neutral parents are very proud of dressing their boys in ruffles and bows. The philosophy is neutrality, not androgyny. Do some internet research before you decide you're an expert in the silly, confusing behaviors of 21st-century parents.

I don't get my information from the internet, thank you.

I am not an expert by any means but this isn't a foreign subject to me; it's something I know a lot about for many personal reasons.
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Old 08-24-2016, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Pestle View Post
Is she raising him gender-neutral? That's a thing. Gender-neutral parents let their kids choose from a variety of clothing types. They're trying to avoid exactly the social stigma you're so concerned about--the one where you think CPS should be called for a boy in girl's clothing.
The mom wouldn't be putting the kid in obvious girl clothing if she was raising them gender neutral. If the child is not choosing it's outfits (and clearly the infant is not), then this mom is seemingly wanting to dress her boys as girls for SOME reason. Whether it's a mental issue or maybe she just wants to p!ss off the dads...who knows? If it's really concerning, I would call.
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Old 08-24-2016, 07:50 AM
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I believe the OP said the child is 4, and is saying that mom is picking out his clothing. He is not choosing to dress in "girl" clothes (which for arguments sake I'll assume means obviously "feminine" clothing such as dresses, not the color of the garment being worn)

It might not be "pc" but I feel there is a huge difference between a child deciding to wear a dress because they like it and not having that decision because the parent forces them to dress that way.

That said, I agree that I would not allow other children to tease or bully another child.
Ahh, never mind.

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Old 08-24-2016, 08:34 AM
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I have a child raised gender neutral in care. She chooses what she wears, her name is neutral shortened, her neutral hair cut was chosen by her. She refers to herself with various pronouns. It is NOT forced, and that's the difference, imho.

The forcing of it would be my concern. I would tell Dad he needs to bring it up in court, or to their court ordered guardian ad litem.
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Old 08-24-2016, 08:50 AM
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The forcing of it would be my concern. I would tell Dad he needs to bring it up in court, or to their court ordered guardian ad litem.

I would tell dad to bring it up as well, but...
If the boy is being forced to wear girl clothes, that is abuse and should be reported, then the authorities can decide what to do.
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Old 08-24-2016, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
Parents who raise their children to be gender neutral don't CHOOSE to dress their child in clothing generally worn on the opposite gender.

Gender neutral means exactly that. Nothing that denotes the gender of the child.

In this case, the mother is dressing the male child like a girl child (or what society feels is generally female clothing).

I think notifying CPS is a good idea.

NOT because the child is in any immediate physical danger or because the child wears pink or purple clothing (who cares) but I think a call to CPS might be warranted because of possible mental illness. Seems the subject has been brought up to mom before and she is aware of her child being teased/bullied because of it and yet she still does it.

I would NOT be concerned about a pink or purple shirt or butterfly anything as I don't feel those are strictly limited to a female wardrobe. What I would be concerned about is the bows in the child's hair and the deliberate attempt to make the baby look like a female.

Since this child is an infant, the child did not pick out the items to wear. Makes me wonder if mom isn't suffering from postpartum maybe?

Also OP stated in her first post that when she tried to inform mom about the bullying, she got upset.

So mom knows about the situation she is creating for her child yet continues to put him in harms way.
That warrants a call to CPS in my honest opinion.

I've dealt with mental illness in a parent before and I will be the first to say a "perfect portrait" doesn't always tell the full story. The children don't have to be unkempt, unfed or in poor physical condition to signal abuse.
I think calling CPS to see what they say and or suggest is a good idea. My brother's ex-wife used to dress her son in girl's clothing because she knew it concerned and upset my brother. Despite the fact that he paid child support, we also thought she might also be doing it because she knew my brother would go out and buy him new clothing to wear for the weekend. When it was time to go home to his mother, he would wear the new clothing which she would then keep at her house, sending him in girl's clothing the following weekend. Is it possible dcm is trying to upset her ex?
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Old 08-24-2016, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Pestle View Post
Is she raising him gender-neutral? That's a thing. Gender-neutral parents let their kids choose from a variety of clothing types. They're trying to avoid exactly the social stigma you're so concerned about--the one where you think CPS should be called for a boy in girl's clothing.
But gender neutral wouldn't be blatant girl clothes. Just a thought.
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Old 08-24-2016, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
Parents who raise their children to be gender neutral don't CHOOSE to dress their child in clothing generally worn on the opposite gender.

Gender neutral means exactly that. Nothing that denotes the gender of the child.

In this case, the mother is dressing the male child like a girl child (or what society feels is generally female clothing).

I think notifying CPS is a good idea.

NOT because the child is in any immediate physical danger or because the child wears pink or purple clothing (who cares) but I think a call to CPS might be warranted because of possible mental illness. Seems the subject has been brought up to mom before and she is aware of her child being teased/bullied because of it and yet she still does it.

I would NOT be concerned about a pink or purple shirt or butterfly anything as I don't feel those are strictly limited to a female wardrobe. What I would be concerned about is the bows in the child's hair and the deliberate attempt to make the baby look like a female.

Since this child is an infant, the child did not pick out the items to wear. Makes me wonder if mom isn't suffering from postpartum maybe?

Also OP stated in her first post that when she tried to inform mom about the bullying, she got upset.

So mom knows about the situation she is creating for her child yet continues to put him in harms way.
That warrants a call to CPS in my honest opinion.

I've dealt with mental illness in a parent before and I will be the first to say a "perfect portrait" doesn't always tell the full story. The children don't have to be unkempt, unfed or in poor physical condition to signal abuse.
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Old 08-24-2016, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Pestle View Post
The OP said " only so much I can do or the teachers can do."

OP, are you the director? If not, are you working with the teachers and director on this, or just planning to call CPS under your own authority?

Some gender-neutral parents are very proud of dressing their boys in ruffles and bows. The philosophy is neutrality, not androgyny. Do some internet research before you decide you're an expert in the silly, confusing behaviors of 21st-century parents.
To be honest, I have strong views on this topic and I don't want to get too deep into it but, if your child is a boy and you are buying "girl" clothes and bows and such, I would strongly think that there is something wrong with perception/living in reality. Just saying.

I don't really care what the "norms" are for the 21st century. Mental illness is the same whether it happens in 1845 or the present.
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Old 08-24-2016, 10:23 AM
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To be honest, I have strong views on this topic and I don't want to get too deep into it but, if your child is a boy and you are buying "girl" clothes and bows and such, I would strongly think that there is something wrong with perception/living in reality. Just saying.

I don't really care what the "norms" are for the 21st century. Mental illness is the same whether it happens in 1845 or the present.


I might get some attacks from this, but it is just my opinion.

Boys are boys and girls are girls. The world was started with Adam and Eve, man and woman. Man and woman marry and become one. 2 men or 2 women can't become one. They can get married, and I believe in freedom and choice, but they can't become one. Male and female can be whatever sex they want to be, but it should not be parents making them.

A while back I got an email from an organization I support asking for support for lg?? (whatever it was called now) to do something about public restroom issues, so I read up on that topic.

Used to be the day when cross-dressing was only done at home, and same sex relationships were very secretive. What's the world coming to?

I honestly have nothing against anyone, no matter who or what they are, how they dress, act, or live, or what they believe, but I believe most of these variations are due to either poor or abnormal upbringing, abuse, or just something that didn't go right in their life.

In most states and provinces, it is mandated to report abuse, and that includes improper dressing that will cause issues, like being picked on or bullied.

Hit me for my beliefs if you want.
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Old 08-24-2016, 11:03 AM
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Is mom only dressing the boys in girl clothes on Dad's (either Dad) pick up days?

I have seen this passive-aggressive behavior before. It was about who spent more money on clothes, who washed them and who did not return them in pristine condition. (Providers do it to ensure loaner clothing is returned as well. Maybe not opposite gender, but hideous patterns and mismatched colors, for sure.)

I have read about it being a passive aggressive bait for court as well. Anything to get a rise out of Dad to claim verbal abuse, push for RO, to get more time/money...

Is it possible this may be at play instead of a political statement via uninformed third party.
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Old 08-24-2016, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
Parents who raise their children to be gender neutral don't CHOOSE to dress their child in clothing generally worn on the opposite gender.

Gender neutral means exactly that. Nothing that denotes the gender of the child.

In this case, the mother is dressing the male child like a girl child (or what society feels is generally female clothing).

I think notifying CPS is a good idea.

NOT because the child is in any immediate physical danger or because the child wears pink or purple clothing (who cares) but I think a call to CPS might be warranted because of possible mental illness. Seems the subject has been brought up to mom before and she is aware of her child being teased/bullied because of it and yet she still does it.

I would NOT be concerned about a pink or purple shirt or butterfly anything as I don't feel those are strictly limited to a female wardrobe. What I would be concerned about is the bows in the child's hair and the deliberate attempt to make the baby look like a female.

Since this child is an infant, the child did not pick out the items to wear. Makes me wonder if mom isn't suffering from postpartum maybe?

Also OP stated in her first post that when she tried to inform mom about the bullying, she got upset.

So mom knows about the situation she is creating for her child yet continues to put him in harms way.
That warrants a call to CPS in my honest opinion.

I've dealt with mental illness in a parent before and I will be the first to say a "perfect portrait" doesn't always tell the full story. The children don't have to be unkempt, unfed or in poor physical condition to signal abuse.
There is also the issue of the child actually being able to choose their own clothing. Is mom taking the child to the store, and allowing him to choose any clothing that suits his fancy, including a mix of both 'boy' and 'girl' clothes? Or, is mom doing the shopping, choosing only 'girl' clothing, and allowing the child to 'choose' their clothes for the day based on her prior selection?

If mom is taking her son shopping and he chooses a more feminine outfit, that is the boys choice, while his mother's preference and conditioning may play into that decision. If mom is supplying only feminine clothing and claiming she allows her child to choose his own outfit, she is not being untruthful but she is conditioning the child to select items he thinks would please his mom.

If mom has been made aware of the bullying, is upset by the fact that it is happening, yet chooses to do nothing to change her son's circumstances, something is up.

I agree with BC, a call to CPS, or your local CCR&R consultant would be well places. They are professional trained in a multitude of parental situations, and may have resources to share with you to help understand what is happening, or may have resources that can help mom understand what her child is going through, and to help make changes.
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Old 08-24-2016, 12:43 PM
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There is also the issue of the child actually being able to choose their own clothing. Is mom taking the child to the store, and allowing him to choose any clothing that suits his fancy, including a mix of both 'boy' and 'girl' clothes? Or, is mom doing the shopping, choosing only 'girl' clothing, and allowing the child to 'choose' their clothes for the day based on her prior selection?

If mom is taking her son shopping and he chooses a more feminine outfit, that is the boys choice, while his mother's preference and conditioning may play into that decision. If mom is supplying only feminine clothing and claiming she allows her child to choose his own outfit, she is not being untruthful but she is conditioning the child to select items he thinks would please his mom.

If mom has been made aware of the bullying, is upset by the fact that it is happening, yet chooses to do nothing to change her son's circumstances, something is up.

I agree with BC, a call to CPS, or your local CCR&R consultant would be well places. They are professional trained in a multitude of parental situations, and may have resources to share with you to help understand what is happening, or may have resources that can help mom understand what her child is going through, and to help make changes.
I agree with this. There is a huge difference between a child who chooses it and one who is having it chosen for him. I had a little guy last year who liked dressing up in girly things. Specifically, he loved all things that were pink and sparkly. His mom was completely okay with him dressing up but didn't dress him in girls clothes. Since mom didn't let him wear sparkles outside the house, he pretty much lived in the sparkly side dress up area at my house.

The difference for my little guy was that you could tell he was completely comfortable in his own skin. He enjoyed it and made it "cool" to be a boy that dressed up as a princess. If that's not the case with OPs little guy, I would be worried. Being forced to wear opposite gender clothing (when at an age where he is aware) and then being teased could have a long term negative impact on him.
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Old 08-24-2016, 12:51 PM
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Remember, a call to CPS doesn't have to be a REPORT to CPS. You can call and ask for guidance.
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Old 08-24-2016, 02:38 PM
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Remember, a call to CPS doesn't have to be a REPORT to CPS. You can call and ask for guidance.
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Old 08-24-2016, 03:55 PM
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Remember, a call to CPS doesn't have to be a REPORT to CPS. You can call and ask for guidance.
Yes, this exactly!!!!
If I am correct, there are 2 children involved, right? A 4 yo and an infant around 12 months old?
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Old 08-24-2016, 08:41 PM
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So when you told her it wasn't a problem, what did you expect her to hear? "It's such a big problem that I'm going to try to get your child taken from his home and placed in foster care"? Or, "It's not a problem, but because other children are bullying your child, I'm going to do the grown-up version of bullying"? Because she might not have gotten that subtext from "It's not a problem."

Is he bathed? Is his clothing clean and appropriate to the season? Are you maybe getting swept up in a he-said/she-said thing between the parents?

Is it possible that your job here is to address the fact that other kids in your care are bullying him? You say "There is only so much I can do" when it comes to the bad behavior of children you're responsible for, but you certainly are pulling out the hammer when it comes to this particular child.

Agreed!!!
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Old 08-25-2016, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike View Post


I might get some attacks from this, but it is just my opinion.

Boys are boys and girls are girls. The world was started with Adam and Eve, man and woman. Man and woman marry and become one. 2 men or 2 women can't become one. They can get married, and I believe in freedom and choice, but they can't become one. Male and female can be whatever sex they want to be, but it should not be parents making them.

A while back I got an email from an organization I support asking for support for lg?? (whatever it was called now) to do something about public restroom issues, so I read up on that topic.

Used to be the day when cross-dressing was only done at home, and same sex relationships were very secretive. What's the world coming to?

I honestly have nothing against anyone, no matter who or what they are, how they dress, act, or live, or what they believe, but I believe most of these variations are due to either poor or abnormal upbringing, abuse, or just something that didn't go right in their life.

In most states and provinces, it is mandated to report abuse, and that includes improper dressing that will cause issues, like being picked on or bullied.

Hit me for my beliefs if you want.
No attacks from me, I agree with you.
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Old 08-25-2016, 08:09 AM
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Heart12 Heart12 is offline
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OP, I dont think DCD should have involved you at all in this matter & if I were you, I certainly wouldnt have brought it up to DCM. Also, I agree with calling CPS for guidance! Im wondering if DCM just feels very strongly about letting her child wear whatever he wants? Or maybe she is being passive aggressive with DCD? I guess the major question is whether she is "forcing" him to wear these things? From my experience, Ive seen a lot of Dad's that dont allow their sons to play with baby dolls etc. Which IMO is ridiculous. Whats going to happen? He's going to grow up to be a good Dad?? I think there could be a lot more to this situation than OP even knows about. Definitely call CPS for advice!!
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