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  #1  
Old 10-17-2016, 08:48 PM
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Default Another CA Immunization Issue

I HATE THIS NEW LAW.....

so when the law changed, I changed my policies to reflect. There is a zero grace period for immunization updates.

I have a family that was out of compliance back in May and I told them that we can't let that happen again. Currently the only consequence that I have for failure to report on time is I suspend services until it's brought up to date.

PROBLEM is, is that if the child is here or not, if my files are inspected by the state, it does not matter if the child is in attendance or not, out of compliance, is still out of compliance.

WELL this family is out of compliance again. I over looked it, as the child is on a delayed schedule per the doctor, BUT our rules state that it is the parents responsibility to stay current on all vaccinations and update me on or before the immunization due date.

I really think that I need to have a different consequence to stop the repeat offenders from doing this.

Normally, I have a good system set up that reminds me 30 days in advance, but it's not MY responsibility to remind parents to care for their children.

thanks if you have gotten this far...sorry so long.

what rule or consequence would you implement for families that continue to break this LAW....
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  #2  
Old 10-17-2016, 09:21 PM
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I have never given an analyst my paperwork on a child who wasn't there. They've only requested files on children present.

Sadly, the state has decided to hold us responsible for the lack of parenting.
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Old 10-17-2016, 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted by sharlan View Post
I have never given an analyst my paperwork on a child who wasn't there. They've only requested files on children present.

Sadly, the state has decided to hold us responsible for the lack of parenting.
Wow. Last 3 inspections they took all current kids in the facility roster and went through all of their files. Took forever I have a total of 22 kids enrolled. Lots of part timers.

I have thought about making an immunization folder and putting all of the kids records in it so that they can quickly go over the immunization forms VS pulling each file. I don't know maybe they will still purl each file any ways. Ugh

How are you handeling the parents that are not updating on time ???
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Old 10-18-2016, 06:29 AM
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I HATE THIS NEW LAW.....

so when the law changed, I changed my policies to reflect. There is a zero grace period for immunization updates.

I have a family that was out of compliance back in May and I told them that we can't let that happen again. Currently the only consequence that I have for failure to report on time is I suspend services until it's brought up to date.

PROBLEM is, is that if the child is here or not, if my files are inspected by the state, it does not matter if the child is in attendance or not, out of compliance, is still out of compliance.

WELL this family is out of compliance again. I over looked it, as the child is on a delayed schedule per the doctor, BUT our rules state that it is the parents responsibility to stay current on all vaccinations and update me on or before the immunization due date.

I really think that I need to have a different consequence to stop the repeat offenders from doing this.

Normally, I have a good system set up that reminds me 30 days in advance, but it's not MY responsibility to remind parents to care for their children.

thanks if you have gotten this far...sorry so long.

what rule or consequence would you implement for families that continue to break this LAW....

You have a policy in place to exclude those that have not complied with the law. Unless they (your licensing agency) has provided you with an outline of what they feel the consequence should be, you ARE following the law.


If the state cites you whether the child is in attendance or not, are you having to keep UP TO DATE files on every kid that has ever attended your program?

If they don't require that ^, there is no feasible way they can require you to have current files on families that are excluded from care due to not staying current on their immunizations.

I think this rule is being interpreted incorrectly. I'd find someone in a higher position that can clarify this rule.
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Old 10-18-2016, 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by sharlan View Post
I have never given an analyst my paperwork on a child who wasn't there. They've only requested files on children present.
At my inspections ( MD) they go through all my files of current children whether here that day or not, they check immunizations , contract , transportation and all my paperwork .
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Old 10-18-2016, 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
You have a policy in place to exclude those that have not complied with the law. Unless they (your licensing agency) has provided you with an outline of what they feel the consequence should be, you ARE following the law.


If the state cites you whether the child is in attendance or not, are you having to keep UP TO DATE files on every kid that has ever attended your program?

If they don't require that ^, there is no feasible way they can require you to have current files on families that are excluded from care due to not staying current on their immunizations.

I think this rule is being interpreted incorrectly. I'd find someone in a higher position that can clarify this rule.
A facility roster is what they have used to ask for files. On that list they only take active children enrolled. I have talked with the head of licensing in Sacramento and the county health coordinator who handles immunizations. They both told me the same thing. The file has to be up to date on any child enrolled.
I know the law very well I'm very well versed in what the state requires.

What I need to change is my current policy on this to stop clients from doing this over and over. This is what I'm asking for help on.

Yes, some of this is my fault. It was an oversight. But it was due back in JULY. So since then the parents haven't even tried to do a thing about getting me the update. Seems like they are waiting for me to remind them of their due dates, which is not my responsibility.

Maybe I'm not explain this right.
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  #7  
Old 10-18-2016, 06:51 AM
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At my inspections ( MD) they go through all my files of current children whether here that day or not, they check immunizations , contract , transportation and all my paperwork .
This. This is exactly what they ask for. Except the transportation. I have never been asked for that, however I don't transport kids.
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Old 10-18-2016, 07:05 AM
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A facility roster is what they have used to ask for files. On that list they only take active children enrolled. I have talked with the head of licensing in Sacramento and the county health coordinator who handles immunizations. They both told me the same thing. The file has to be up to date on any child enrolled.
I know the law very well I'm very well versed in what the state requires.

What I need to change is my current policy on this to stop clients from doing this over and over. This is what I'm asking for help on.

Yes, some of this is my fault. It was an oversight. But it was due back in JULY. So since then the parents haven't even tried to do a thing about getting me the update. Seems like they are waiting for me to remind them of their due dates, which is not my responsibility.

Maybe I'm not explain this right.
Yeah, I am confused..... You need to find a policy that stops parents from letting their child's immunizations lapse?

If you are suspending them from attending, mark them as "Enrolled-Not Active" and then your facility roster will show you adhered to the law.

I'm not understanding why your current policy isn't acceptable?

Are you suppose to terminate families that are behind on immunizations therefore removing them from the roster and meeting the state law.

Re-enroll at your discretion when they are up to date.

Also, if it's a law in CA that children not be allowed to attend child care or school unless their imms are up to date, then it's the "administration department's" job to track and exclude when behind. Since most of us are a one-woman (man) show the responsibility does fall on us.
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Old 10-18-2016, 07:26 AM
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I would not consider a suspended child/family an active enrollee. I think the suspension should be enough. You could even have your files separated by active/suspended/no longer enrolled. Have you spoken to your licensor about it? I have children who do not attend during the summer months, their files are not looked at when my licensor visits, even though they will be back in the fall...
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Old 10-18-2016, 07:30 AM
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Yeah, I am confused..... You need to find a policy that stops parents from letting their child's immunizations lapse?

If you are suspending them from attending, mark them as "Enrolled-Not Active" and then your facility roster will show you adhered to the law.

I'm not understanding why your current policy isn't acceptable?

Are you suppose to terminate families that are behind on immunizations therefore removing them from the roster and meeting the state law.

Re-enroll at your discretion when they are up to date.

Also, if it's a law in CA that children not be allowed to attend child care or school unless their imms are up to date, then it's the "administration department's" job to track and exclude when behind. Since most of us are a one-woman (man) show the responsibility does fall on us.
I need to explain better.
At this point it's only my issue. It's not being inspected by licensing

I guess all I can think of is this policy: failure to keep your child's immunization records up to date will result in termination of services without refund. I can see it happening once, but this family is a repeat offender of not updating me.


I'm not worried about the state right now.
I'm worried about this family who keeps failing to notify me with proper paper work. SO if licensing dos show up right now I would be in trouble.

I don't know how else to explain the situation.
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  #11  
Old 10-18-2016, 08:10 AM
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I see, so you are saying, you don't want to keep tabs, you just want the parents to do what they are supposed to do... I have found very little that will accomplish that! I usually have a three strikes policy (for me this is usually late pick ups, or late payments, but it could work for anything): The first rule infraction is a reminder of the rule and a warning of a fine. The second occurrence results in a fine, the third occurrence results in a doubled fine, and the fourth occurrence equals immediate termination without refund of any tuition paid. I have never gotten to the termination phase, and only once to the double fine. I find when parents know you are SERIOUS about this not happening again, they get their crap together.
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  #12  
Old 10-18-2016, 09:06 AM
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Wow. Last 3 inspections they took all current kids in the facility roster and went through all of their files. Took forever I have a total of 22 kids enrolled. Lots of part timers.

I have thought about making an immunization folder and putting all of the kids records in it so that they can quickly go over the immunization forms VS pulling each file. I don't know maybe they will still purl each file any ways. Ugh

How are you handeling the parents that are not updating on time ???
I've yet to have that issue. All if my parents seem to stay on top of immunizations. I just had one parent tell me her child was really behind and I showed her she was up to date. Doctor's office was calling her because child was behind. She took the day off yesterday to get her immunizations, it was a flu shot.
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Old 10-18-2016, 09:08 AM
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There is such a great difference in how the "north" and "south" handle things.
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Old 10-18-2016, 09:20 AM
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There is such a great difference in how the "north" and "south" handle things.
Yes. I have had a childcare in both south and north and by far up north has been so much different. I do think it has something to also do with the fact that I have a SR analyst that has zero tolerance for much of anything she scares the life out of me.

Also QRIS was rolled out last year here and that threw in a lot of changes too.
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Old 10-18-2016, 09:21 AM
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I've yet to have that issue. All if my parents seem to stay on top of immunizations. I just had one parent tell me her child was really behind and I showed her she was up to date. Doctor's office was calling her because child was behind. She took the day off yesterday to get her immunizations, it was a flu shot.
Oh gosh that's annoying.

So what if your parents don't stay ontop of updating you ?? What is your policy ?
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  #16  
Old 10-18-2016, 11:01 AM
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Oh gosh that's annoying.

So what if your parents don't stay ontop of updating you ?? What is your policy ?
I don't have one as it's never happened. All of my parents have stayed on top of it. I had one family for a short time last year and when I filled out the blue card, I told dcm kids were both due for shots. She made an appt that day and took care of it.

I'm a small daycare and right now all but 1 of my kids are school age.
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Old 10-18-2016, 12:47 PM
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Is your DCK on a delayed schedule because of personal beliefs or because of a medical reason (they were sick when they were supposed to get vaccines, they had a reaction to one of the vaccines etc). I know they have a Dr's note but do they have a medical reason for the delayed vaccines?

PS: My analyst only checks the children that are present as well.
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Old 10-18-2016, 01:45 PM
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I think the only way to ensure you stay in compliance is to make spreadsheet or log of when kids are due. (Either all or just the ones you have trouble with). IME, parents are either on top of it . . . Or not.

And as you said, with the new law, your policy would have to be that if parents don't turn in updated forms they lose services immediately.

If you terminate or indefinitely suspend for lack of immunizations, just mark that they left on your facility roster. That should cover you. You can always add them back onto your facility roster if the parents get the immunizations.
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Old 10-18-2016, 02:04 PM
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I think the only way to ensure you stay in compliance is to make spreadsheet or log of when kids are due. (Either all or just the ones you have trouble with). IME, parents are either on top of it . . . Or not.

And as you said, with the new law, your policy would have to be that if parents don't turn in updated forms they lose services immediately.

If you terminate or indefinitely suspend for lack of immunizations, just mark that they left on your facility roster. That should cover you. You can always add them back onto your facility roster if the parents get the immunizations.
thanks so much spedmommy4..... This is exactly what I will do. I also decided that I will be adding into it that a suspension that results in loss of services for more than 7 days will not be eligible to reenroll.

I talked to my county rep from health dept this morning and she was mad for me, because she also recalled this family just doing this to me a few months back..

and I agree, I have families that are on top like clock work and others that are trying to use me as their reminder to get their stuff done...ugh...I hate having to parent parents...so not fair and should not be my job...BUT it is what it is..

thanks so much for chiming in, I am going to go write this policy right now.
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Old 10-18-2016, 02:45 PM
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thanks so much spedmommy4..... This is exactly what I will do. I also decided that I will be adding into it that a suspension that results in loss of services for more than 7 days will not be eligible to reenroll.

I talked to my county rep from health dept this morning and she was mad for me, because she also recalled this family just doing this to me a few months back..

and I agree, I have families that are on top like clock work and others that are trying to use me as their reminder to get their stuff done...ugh...I hate having to parent parents...so not fair and should not be my job...BUT it is what it is..

thanks so much for chiming in, I am going to go write this policy right now.
Okay, now I am seriously confused......

Isn't what Spedmommy is suggesting exactly what you are already doing??
I am reading her post as her reiterating what you said you already do....

...and what I pointed out you were doing as well?

If not, I am failing to see what the difference is in your "new consequence" verses the one you already had.

I know California regulations can be super confusing but this thread has me out in left field going "huh?!"



Quote:
Originally Posted by daycare View Post
I HATE THIS NEW LAW.....

so when the law changed, I changed my policies to reflect. There is a zero grace period for immunization updates.

I have a family that was out of compliance back in May and I told them that we can't let that happen again. Currently the only consequence that I have for failure to report on time is I suspend services until it's brought up to date.

PROBLEM is, is that if the child is here or not, if my files are inspected by the state, it does not matter if the child is in attendance or not, out of compliance, is still out of compliance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
You have a policy in place to exclude those that have not complied with the law. Unless they (your licensing agency) has provided you with an outline of what they feel the consequence should be, you ARE following the law.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post

If you are suspending them from attending, mark them as "Enrolled-Not Active" and then your facility roster will show you adhered to the law.

Re-enroll at your discretion when they are up to date.
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Old 10-18-2016, 02:58 PM
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Okay, now I am seriously confused......

Isn't what Spedmommy is suggesting exactly what you are already doing??
I am reading her post as her reiterating what you said you already do....

...and what I pointed out you were doing as well?

If not, I am failing to see what the difference is in your "new consequence" verses the one you already had.

I know California regulations can be super confusing but this thread has me out in left field going "huh?!"
right BC is your head spinning yet? Mine is.

so here is what I am doing differently..

hope I make sense here...so here it goes..

I was currently only suspending families for lack of compliance. BUT CA LIC says that any child who is actively enrolled will still be inspected if they are in attendance that day or not. So suspending them may put them in a bind for care, but it still is hurting me.

So if I send billy home and suspend him for non-compliance of this new pain in the a$$ law, I would still be sighted.

Soooooo as Speedmommy said, I have to terminate them on the spot if they are in no-compliance. This way, that child will not get inspected when/if licensing comes. This would be the only way around this. I think you mentioned something of it as well....

THEN I decided to add in that I will term on the spot. I will give them 7 days to update these records, however failure to update within 7days while "suspended" from care will result in being denied re enrollment back into the childcare program.????


did I do any better here????
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Old 10-18-2016, 03:00 PM
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Is your DCK on a delayed schedule because of personal beliefs or because of a medical reason (they were sick when they were supposed to get vaccines, they had a reaction to one of the vaccines etc). I know they have a Dr's note but do they have a medical reason for the delayed vaccines?

PS: My analyst only checks the children that are present as well.
when talking to the head LIC today, they said legally we can not require reason why the child is on delayed vax schedule, we can only require the new vax schedule on doctors letter head and now must follow that new schedule.

this family I am positing about does have a letter of delayed vax and they did not comply with the new dates.......
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Old 10-18-2016, 03:31 PM
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I think the only way to ensure you stay in compliance is to make spreadsheet or log of when kids are due. (Either all or just the ones you have trouble with). IME, parents are either on top of it . . . Or not.

And as you said, with the new law, your policy would have to be that if parents don't turn in updated forms they lose services immediately.

If you terminate or indefinitely suspend for lack of immunizations, just mark that they left on your facility roster. That should cover you. You can always add them back onto your facility roster if the parents get the immunizations.
I just typed up a new policy on this....would you do me a huge favor and look it over??

I can PM to you if that is ok...


thanks so much...
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Old 10-18-2016, 03:45 PM
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when talking to the head LIC today, they said legally we can not require reason why the child is on delayed vax schedule, we can only require the new vax schedule on doctors letter head and now must follow that new schedule.

this family I am positing about does have a letter of delayed vax and they did not comply with the new dates.......
I see what they're saying BUT we can ask whether the delayed schedule is because of medical reasons or not but we can't ask specifically what the medical issue is ... and actually if you want to get technical we can ask, they just don't have to tell us.

In any case if your DCF isn't current on their vaccines you can't let them into daycare otherwise you're in violation of state law. It's their choice to let it lapse or not get a DR's note so don't let that family put you in the position where you can be cited. The only way to get them to comply is an ultimatum ... they either
a) get their child vaccinated ASAP in order to attend daycare
b) get the note from their DR that specifically says the childs name, that they are on a delayed schedule, what the schedule is and that they FOLLOW IT or
c) you prevent them from attending daycare until they either provide one of the two above options or you terminate.

I know, this vaccine thing is whacked. Here's what I prepared in advance just in case anybody wanted an exemption to the vaccines.

Quote:
Dear parent/guardian,
Beginning July 1st 2016 CA State regulations require that all children be immunized and up to date on their vaccines in order to attend licensed daycare in either a family child care home or daycare center setting. You have indicated that you are interested in obtaining an exemption or to be put on a delayed schedule for your child. Below you will find information about how you can do that.

Personal or Religious Belief Exemption
Exemptions for personal or religious beliefs are currently not allowed by the state of California.

Physical Condition or Medical Circumstances Exemption
To exempt your child from immunizations due to a physical condition or medical circumstance you must provide me with a legible official letter from your child’s licensed physician (M.D. or D.O.) on their letterhead which states all of the following:
• The child’s name
• That the physical condition or medical circumstances of the child are such that the required immunization(s) is not indicated.
• Which vaccines are being exempted or delayed (listed by name)
• Whether the medical exemption is permanent or temporary.
• The expiration date, if the exemption is temporary

Only a licensed Medical Doctor (MD) or Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine (DO) may provide a medical exemption. Nurse Practitioners, Physicians Assistants, Naturopathic Doctors, School Nurses etc. may not provide medical exemptions.

This letter of exemption is required in order to be enrolled in my daycare and before a child can attend.

Does Having This Exemption Affect You and Your Child While at My Daycare?
If your child is not fully immunized and there is good cause to believe that any child has been exposed to a communicable disease listed in Health & Safety Code Section 120325 your child will be excluded from my daycare until the local public health department decides that your child is no longer at risk of developing the disease and a doctor’s note will be required for re-admittance confirming that your child is not a risk to the other children in my care including infants.

As a reminder my contract agreement states that my rates are charged on a weekly basis that is based on enrollment, not attendance, and therefore weekly payment of tuition will still be due even if your child cannot attend my daycare due to having to be excluded during a possible outbreak of any of the required immunizations listed in Health & Safety Code Section 120325.

If your child should need to be excluded from care and you decide that you would like to terminate your contract during this time you must still adhere to the required termination procedure which includes a minimum of two-weeks’ notice of termination. Payment for the final two-weeks period is still due even if your child does not attend during the final two weeks and your two-week security fee will be used to cover payment for these final two weeks.
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Old 10-18-2016, 05:16 PM
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Put in your policies that parents will pay double all fines levied by licensing if child is not immunized on time.
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Old 10-18-2016, 05:57 PM
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Put in your policies that parents will pay double all fines levied by licensing if child is not immunized on time.
thank you for this, I didn't even think about adding this into the policy...

I love all you people. I feel like my new policy I have written is getting better and better with your input.
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Old 10-18-2016, 07:19 PM
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right BC is your head spinning yet? Mine is.

so here is what I am doing differently..

hope I make sense here...so here it goes..

I was currently only suspending families for lack of compliance. BUT CA LIC says that any child who is actively enrolled will still be inspected if they are in attendance that day or not. So suspending them may put them in a bind for care, but it still is hurting me.

So if I send billy home and suspend him for non-compliance of this new pain in the a$$ law, I would still be sighted.

Soooooo as Speedmommy said, I have to terminate them on the spot if they are in no-compliance. This way, that child will not get inspected when/if licensing comes. This would be the only way around this. I think you mentioned something of it as well....

THEN I decided to add in that I will term on the spot. I will give them 7 days to update these records, however failure to update within 7days while "suspended" from care will result in being denied re enrollment back into the childcare program.????


did I do any better here????
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