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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>4 Month Old Non-Sleeper....Help!
Francine 04:32 AM 11-16-2015
I have a four month old baby that doesn't sleep, the only way that Mom has ever gotten her to fall asleep is while feeding her. She feeds her, she falls asleep, Mom puts her in bed. That goes against everything that I do her at daycare, I am a huge fan of the EASY method. Mom realizes that she needs to change the way she does things but she doesn't know how, the baby will not fall asleep any other way. Even if I wanted to I can't hold her until she falls to sleep, I have another 4 month old and 2 two year olds in care also.
We have tried swaddled, unswaddled, arms in, arms out. I've even tried the swing out of desperation. She doesn't normally take a pacifier but we've tried that too. The other issue is IF by chance I can get her to go to sleep she only sleeps 20-30 minutes and doesn't fall back to sleep, she might take 2 20 minutes naps per day. That isn't nearly enough for either of us. I don't feel comfortable letting a 4 month old cry it out....please, any idea would be greatly appreciated! Thank you!
We have tried swaddled, unswaddled, arms in, arms out. I've even tried the swing out of desperation. She doesn't normally take a pacifier but we've tried that too. The other issue is IF by chance I can get her to go to sleep she only sleeps 20-30 minutes and doesn't fall back to sleep, she might take 2 20 minutes naps per day. That isn't nearly enough for either of us. I don't feel comfortable letting a 4 month old cry it out....please, any idea would be greatly appreciated! Thank you!
Play Care 05:41 AM 11-16-2015
I already know I'm going to be the odd man here, but honestly, that sounds like a normal 4 month old. One of the reasons I *rarely* take infants that young is because they are mostly still on cat naps and not yet on the two (or three) solid naps a day schedule. It's coming, but it's not there yet.
When they are that young, I use my pram (more of a bassinet on wheels than a stroller - no straps, baby is flat on their back, etc.) and this is what I use when baby needs a cat nap when we need to be outside or whatever (this way baby is always with me, as I push the pram all over the yard to supervise the other kids) My licensor has seen this and liked it. I would never use a regular stroller (against regs) as well as a safety issue. Once they start trying to sit up or roll over, we're done - though usually they've moved on by that point anyway.
I keep my glider right next to the PNP so at nap time it's the angel swaddler or sleep sack (allowed by my state) bottle with rocking and put down while very barely awake. As the infant gets older, the amount of time I rock gets less and less. But 8-10 months I putting baby down after bottle mostly awake without rocking. Baby is in a separate room from the other kids, with black out curtains and a white noise fan. This way I can even stay with baby just popping out to check on the other kids every few minutes. Once they outgrow the PNP they move to gen pop for naps but that's always closer to 2 here.
I believe in gentle sleep training so that you are moving them to a two nap schedule gradually. By 6 months I'm getting two hours in the AM and two -three in the PM. But that first month or two is work. And I find that even when I know for a fact the parents are doing all the "right" things - sleeping at day care with strange people, more noise, lots of kids, is a whole 'nother ball game.
When they are that young, I use my pram (more of a bassinet on wheels than a stroller - no straps, baby is flat on their back, etc.) and this is what I use when baby needs a cat nap when we need to be outside or whatever (this way baby is always with me, as I push the pram all over the yard to supervise the other kids) My licensor has seen this and liked it. I would never use a regular stroller (against regs) as well as a safety issue. Once they start trying to sit up or roll over, we're done - though usually they've moved on by that point anyway.
I keep my glider right next to the PNP so at nap time it's the angel swaddler or sleep sack (allowed by my state) bottle with rocking and put down while very barely awake. As the infant gets older, the amount of time I rock gets less and less. But 8-10 months I putting baby down after bottle mostly awake without rocking. Baby is in a separate room from the other kids, with black out curtains and a white noise fan. This way I can even stay with baby just popping out to check on the other kids every few minutes. Once they outgrow the PNP they move to gen pop for naps but that's always closer to 2 here.
I believe in gentle sleep training so that you are moving them to a two nap schedule gradually. By 6 months I'm getting two hours in the AM and two -three in the PM. But that first month or two is work. And I find that even when I know for a fact the parents are doing all the "right" things - sleeping at day care with strange people, more noise, lots of kids, is a whole 'nother ball game.
Ariana 06:22 AM 11-16-2015
I also do not take infants but my own kids were taking 4-5 cat naps at that age. Up for 2 hours and then sleep for 30-40 minutes. I was also running a home daycare when my own baby was born. I wore her in a carrier a LOT. You mentioned she won't take a soother. At this age I had to really "force" the soother. A breastfed baby will push it out with their tongues but if you hold it in she should get the hang of it. The NUK brand was what worked for us. A soother will help with that suckling feeling as she drifts off. Mom can try popping her off the boob and inserting a soother right before she falls asleep. Just keep doing that over and over until she falls asleep with the soother in her mouth. Also lying down with her, if you can, and holding her close but with the soother might help.
Good luck. Whatever you choose to do you just need to stick wit it and mom needs to be the one leading the way. I used to breastfeed my first to sleep all the time and switching to the soother did the trick.
Good luck. Whatever you choose to do you just need to stick wit it and mom needs to be the one leading the way. I used to breastfeed my first to sleep all the time and switching to the soother did the trick.
Annalee 09:42 AM 11-16-2015
Originally Posted by Francine:
I have a four month old baby that doesn't sleep, the only way that Mom has ever gotten her to fall asleep is while feeding her. She feeds her, she falls asleep, Mom puts her in bed. That goes against everything that I do her at daycare, I am a huge fan of the EASY method. Mom realizes that she needs to change the way she does things but she doesn't know how, the baby will not fall asleep any other way. Even if I wanted to I can't hold her until she falls to sleep, I have another 4 month old and 2 two year olds in care also.
We have tried swaddled, unswaddled, arms in, arms out. I've even tried the swing out of desperation. She doesn't normally take a pacifier but we've tried that too. The other issue is IF by chance I can get her to go to sleep she only sleeps 20-30 minutes and doesn't fall back to sleep, she might take 2 20 minutes naps per day. That isn't nearly enough for either of us. I don't feel comfortable letting a 4 month old cry it out....please, any idea would be greatly appreciated! Thank you!
Mom has to get on board or you are in for a very long, hard road. I just termed a client after four long months of issues and one of them was the "going to sleep while nursing" issue. A child can be taught to lay down on his back and fall asleep. Group care does not allow for constant holding....licensing doesn't allow swaddling in my state. I have recently added a form BC had about infant care and what is expected from parents. It is now in my handbook....I plan to go over it thoroughly at all interviews. Good luck! I have a four month old baby that doesn't sleep, the only way that Mom has ever gotten her to fall asleep is while feeding her. She feeds her, she falls asleep, Mom puts her in bed. That goes against everything that I do her at daycare, I am a huge fan of the EASY method. Mom realizes that she needs to change the way she does things but she doesn't know how, the baby will not fall asleep any other way. Even if I wanted to I can't hold her until she falls to sleep, I have another 4 month old and 2 two year olds in care also.
We have tried swaddled, unswaddled, arms in, arms out. I've even tried the swing out of desperation. She doesn't normally take a pacifier but we've tried that too. The other issue is IF by chance I can get her to go to sleep she only sleeps 20-30 minutes and doesn't fall back to sleep, she might take 2 20 minutes naps per day. That isn't nearly enough for either of us. I don't feel comfortable letting a 4 month old cry it out....please, any idea would be greatly appreciated! Thank you!
Francine 10:29 AM 11-16-2015
Mom will be on board with anything that I suggest and I guess I didn't specify when I said that she falls asleep while eating, she is a formula baby not breastfed. Twice today I have swaddled her, arms out because she will suck her hands and I want to encourage that, laid her in a P & P in the living room so that I could watch her at all times. I let her fuss a bit, not cry, she did eventually end up falling asleep both times so hopefully we are on a roll.
Ariana 11:05 AM 11-17-2015
Originally Posted by Francine:
Mom will be on board with anything that I suggest and I guess I didn't specify when I said that she falls asleep while eating, she is a formula baby not breastfed. Twice today I have swaddled her, arms out because she will suck her hands and I want to encourage that, laid her in a P & P in the living room so that I could watch her at all times. I let her fuss a bit, not cry, she did eventually end up falling asleep both times so hopefully we are on a roll.
Then why not just feed her to sleep yourself? I thought the issue was tat you weren't able to feed her. Anyway it sounds like it might be sorted.Mom will be on board with anything that I suggest and I guess I didn't specify when I said that she falls asleep while eating, she is a formula baby not breastfed. Twice today I have swaddled her, arms out because she will suck her hands and I want to encourage that, laid her in a P & P in the living room so that I could watch her at all times. I let her fuss a bit, not cry, she did eventually end up falling asleep both times so hopefully we are on a roll.
mommyneedsadayoff 11:11 AM 11-17-2015
I am probably gonna be the odd man out, because I would feed her, let her play, and put her down about 1 hour later. No swaddle (maybe a sleep sack if you want), say night night and leave. Maybe go put paci in or check on her every 15-20 minutes, but she needs to sleep and if she is fed, changed, and all other needs are met, then you are not hurting her by letting her soothe herself to sleep. She will figure it out much quicker and I am personally not a fan of feeding to sleep. It creates an issue with them NEEDING it in order to fall asleep, so as they get older and need less feedings, you will have to find other props to get them to sleep and it will continue for a long time, ime. Just my opinion, and only if you are comfortable with it, but putting her down and letting her fuss will cure the issue much more quickly and lead to an easier nap/bedtime. Good luck to you!
Francine 06:24 PM 11-20-2015
Originally Posted by mommyneedsadayoff:
I am probably gonna be the odd man out, because I would feed her, let her play, and put her down about 1 hour later. No swaddle (maybe a sleep sack if you want), say night night and leave. Maybe go put paci in or check on her every 15-20 minutes, but she needs to sleep and if she is fed, changed, and all other needs are met, then you are not hurting her by letting her soothe herself to sleep. She will figure it out much quicker and I am personally not a fan of feeding to sleep. It creates an issue with them NEEDING it in order to fall asleep, so as they get older and need less feedings, you will have to find other props to get them to sleep and it will continue for a long time, ime. Just my opinion, and only if you are comfortable with it, but putting her down and letting her fuss will cure the issue much more quickly and lead to an easier nap/bedtime. Good luck to you!
This is normally what I would do, and I do with my other 4 month old. He eats, plays, sleeps ( 2-3 hours) wakes....repeat. He started coming at 8 weeks so it was an easy gradual process. This little girl didn't start coming full time until she was 4 months so she is trained to do things the way that Grandma has been doing it. I need to retrain her while also taking care of my other kids. I feel bad just putting her in bed and leaving her but with the other kids I also can't stand next to the bed patting and shushing. Mom is also trying to figure it out because she no longer has help at home since Grandma has gone home. The other issue is that she only sleeps for 20-30 minutes at a time, I know that somebody said that's normal for her age but I'm never had a 4 month old sleep so little. I have tried letting her fuss for awhile when she wakes up, she will not go back to sleep, it will escalate to full blown screams.I am probably gonna be the odd man out, because I would feed her, let her play, and put her down about 1 hour later. No swaddle (maybe a sleep sack if you want), say night night and leave. Maybe go put paci in or check on her every 15-20 minutes, but she needs to sleep and if she is fed, changed, and all other needs are met, then you are not hurting her by letting her soothe herself to sleep. She will figure it out much quicker and I am personally not a fan of feeding to sleep. It creates an issue with them NEEDING it in order to fall asleep, so as they get older and need less feedings, you will have to find other props to get them to sleep and it will continue for a long time, ime. Just my opinion, and only if you are comfortable with it, but putting her down and letting her fuss will cure the issue much more quickly and lead to an easier nap/bedtime. Good luck to you!
mommyneedsadayoff 12:50 PM 11-23-2015
Originally Posted by Francine:
This is normally what I would do, and I do with my other 4 month old. He eats, plays, sleeps ( 2-3 hours) wakes....repeat. He started coming at 8 weeks so it was an easy gradual process. This little girl didn't start coming full time until she was 4 months so she is trained to do things the way that Grandma has been doing it. I need to retrain her while also taking care of my other kids. I feel bad just putting her in bed and leaving her but with the other kids I also can't stand next to the bed patting and shushing. Mom is also trying to figure it out because she no longer has help at home since Grandma has gone home. The other issue is that she only sleeps for 20-30 minutes at a time, I know that somebody said that's normal for her age but I'm never had a 4 month old sleep so little. I have tried letting her fuss for awhile when she wakes up, she will not go back to sleep, it will escalate to full blown screams.
I totally understand and my advice may not be what you want to hear, but I would let her cry. Again, you can go in every 15/20 minutes if you want, but I wouldn't get her up after 20-30 minutes of nap. I would have her lay down for at least and hour or longer. If she is eating well, then getting her up after 30 minutes just means you will have a cranky baby till next feeding. I would let her fuss and the first few (or several) days are gonna suck, but she will figure it out and if she is still up and it is about 15 minutes till her next feeding, then I would get her up, hold her to calm her, feed her and keep her awake as much as you can till next nap cycle. Again, it may take some time, but four months is still a really good age to get babies on your schedule versus a toddler, so I hope it works out for you!This is normally what I would do, and I do with my other 4 month old. He eats, plays, sleeps ( 2-3 hours) wakes....repeat. He started coming at 8 weeks so it was an easy gradual process. This little girl didn't start coming full time until she was 4 months so she is trained to do things the way that Grandma has been doing it. I need to retrain her while also taking care of my other kids. I feel bad just putting her in bed and leaving her but with the other kids I also can't stand next to the bed patting and shushing. Mom is also trying to figure it out because she no longer has help at home since Grandma has gone home. The other issue is that she only sleeps for 20-30 minutes at a time, I know that somebody said that's normal for her age but I'm never had a 4 month old sleep so little. I have tried letting her fuss for awhile when she wakes up, she will not go back to sleep, it will escalate to full blown screams.