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  #1  
Old 08-29-2011, 09:50 AM
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Question Need Some Reassurance! I Just Hit Send!!!

Just hit the send button on a lengthy e-mail to a DCM. I've had her 10 month old son since he was 8 weeks old. For the past 4-5 months I've been dealing with his constant crying. I feel like I've tried EVERYTHING imagineable! He screams at me the majority of the day!

I didn't terminate him. It was more of a "warning." I asked for her help in figuring out what to do for him, but let her know I can't go on this way much longer. It just isn't fair to anyone, her son included.

I'm so worried! I've never, ever dealt with this type of situation. Dropping a child for this reason seems so foreign to me. I really do love him, but he is making me crazy and making me dislike my job! I keep readin over and over again on here providers advising to let go of the kids/families who make you feel that way. I have to face these people, though, as I live in a small town and our older children are in the same grade!

I'm just soooo anxious over this whole sItuation! There doesn't seem to be an easy answer!!!
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Old 08-29-2011, 10:14 AM
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I would talk to her in person, however uncomfortable that will be. A baby who cries all day is not a happy baby. I recently termed an infant for the same situation. I liked her, I tried to make her happy, it didnt work. She left to find another provider and she is my neighbor and I just smile and say hello when I see them.
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Old 08-29-2011, 10:39 AM
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I talked to her some Friday and I told her I'd like to have a meeting with her. We both just have crazy schedules right now in the evenings with our older kids and she is one of those who just can't take off work. In the email I just asked for her help and for suggestions, but let her know that if we couldn't figure it out, I would have to let him go, as much as I hate to!
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Old 08-29-2011, 10:45 AM
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You did the right thing. (((()))) take a deep breath, hold it in and let it out slow. I think you handled it great. It's not fair to anyone having him cry all the time. It will be ok.
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Old 08-29-2011, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by laundrymom View Post
You did the right thing. (((()))) take a deep breath, hold it in and let it out slow. I think you handled it great. It's not fair to anyone having him cry all the time. It will be ok.
I totally agree!
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Old 08-29-2011, 12:43 PM
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Default Screams All Day - Notification Email to Parents

Quote:
Originally Posted by blessedmess8 View Post
Just hit the send button on a lengthy e-mail to a DCM. I've had her 10 month old son since he was 8 weeks old. For the past 4-5 months I've been dealing with his constant crying. I feel like I've tried EVERYTHING imagineable! He screams at me the majority of the day!

I didn't terminate him. It was more of a "warning." I asked for her help in figuring out what to do for him, but let her know I can't go on this way much longer. It just isn't fair to anyone, her son included.

I'm so worried! I've never, ever dealt with this type of situation. Dropping a child for this reason seems so foreign to me. I really do love him, but he is making me crazy and making me dislike my job! I keep readin over and over again on here providers advising to let go of the kids/families who make you feel that way. I have to face these people, though, as I live in a small town and our older children are in the same grade!

I'm just soooo anxious over this whole sItuation! There doesn't seem to be an easy answer!!!
Would love to see what you wrote. Can you post without names, etc?

Last edited by Michael; 08-29-2011 at 02:51 PM.
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Old 08-29-2011, 12:56 PM
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Would love to see what you wrote. Can you post without names, etc?
{DCM},

I'd like for you and I to set up a meeting and talk. I know that's next to impossible for both of us right now, as much as we have going on, though.
Let me start by saying I LOVE {DCB}! I think he is a sweet, smart little boy! But, I have to also say that he is very high maintenance! Which is not "bad." I think all my kids were a little high maintenance, too! However, It is hard with as many other kids as I have! Things started getting difficult after your surgery and I thought maybe he had gotten used to being held all the time and it would pass! So, for the past 4+ months I've been holding out, thinking it will get better!

I've dealt with criers before and I've done all the things I can think of to make things better for him! I know bonding with the kids is key and I feel like that's something I do pretty well with. I hold and cuddle them all as much as possible! But, for some reason, DCB still cries the majority of the day until after his afternoon nap. There are points in time when he is happy and plays well, but it is usually short lived. It feels like about 75% of the day he is screaming at me if I don't hold him! And, I used to use the carrier and wrap a lot, but he's just so heavy now! It's bad enough that if he is not crying the other kids say, "Look! DCB's happy!!" I think he would be okay if I was able to hip him most of the day and pay most of my attention to him. However, I just CAN'T! And, he breaks my heart when he cries like that! For the past couple of weeks I've been just letting him cry some (which is NOT something I like to do or really believe in at this age!!) To see if he will get used to not being held and calm down. It just seems like nothing works!! And, as you can imagine, my nerves stay shot most of the time, which is one thing. But it is having a negative impact on how I care for the other children. I am not able to give them the attention they equally deserve or fully carry out my lesson plans.

I don't want you to feel like I am complaining to you or telling you I think you are doing something wrong!! Every child is different and with him being so young, he can't express himself! He may be the type of child who can't tolerate a lot of stimulation, his belly may be hurting, he may be sleepy, or any number of things!! We have no way of telling! So, what I want to do is try to work together and figure it out!! I told you Friday that I was going to try his morning naps in another room. This morning he has already been fussy. I put him down in the other room, but he still just slept 30 minutes and is cranky again! He ate breakfast and the minute I sat him down to clean another child up, he started screaming at me. So, all I can really do, aside from all of us listening to him scream, is just sit and hold him! For example: I held him, he decided he was ready to play and I realized I had to go to the kitchen to get a trash bag. Literally 30 seconds! He started screaming the second I left the room!!

This week I am going to try to get him on a really good schedule and do what I can to make sure he gets a good am nap to see if that helps! I am open to any suggestions you have, too!! I haven't said much to you because like I said, I kept thinking it had to get better soon!! I've just never dealt with this!

I want you to know that I DO NOT want to drop DCB! The thought of him going somewhere else just kills me! But, you have to understand the position I'm in, too. And usually by this point, most babies have adapted, but he just hasn't. So, if we cant' figure out what to do for him, I may have no other choice. As much as I hate to say it, he may be the type of child who just needs one on one care.

So, like I said, I'll try anything to make it work! I'm just running low on ideas here besides what I already mentioned trying. I hope we can work together to figure this out and find out what will work best to make your precious baby boy happy! No one knows him like you do!

If you want to set up a time to meet and talk, all my evenings are booked until this weekend, but I'd be happy to whenever we can sync our schedules! Or e-mail is great, too!
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Old 08-29-2011, 01:04 PM
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You are a very caring and concerned provider and I give you much kudos for that. Your e-mail was very honest and to the point. I liked that you told the mom all the things you have tried and even though you do not want to lose this dcb, you are not letting go of the fact that everyone needs to do what is best for the child...which just may be one to one care. If mom is REALLY willing to work with you to remedy this situation then that is great but you need to make sure you set a time line so you aren't being forced to continue caring for him longer than you and the other kids could deal with...kwim?

Pyschologically, listening to a screamin gbaby is one of the most stressful things a person can do. For EVERYONE's sake, set a time line to measure his progress. If he is not improving, then do what is best for him, your other dck's and yourself.

Good luck, this little one is very lucky to have you!
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Old 08-29-2011, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
You are a very caring and concerned provider and I give you much kudos for that. Your e-mail was very honest and to the point. I liked that you told the mom all the things you have tried and even though you do not want to lose this dcb, you are not letting go of the fact that everyone needs to do what is best for the child...which just may be one to one care. If mom is REALLY willing to work with you to remedy this situation then that is great but you need to make sure you set a time line so you aren't being forced to continue caring for him longer than you and the other kids could deal with...kwim?

Pyschologically, listening to a screamin gbaby is one of the most stressful things a person can do. For EVERYONE's sake, set a time line to measure his progress. If he is not improving, then do what is best for him, your other dck's and yourself.

Good luck, this little one is very lucky to have you!
Awww, thank you very much I think you are right and I will take your advice with regad to setting a timeline. I feel bad because Mom is very upset about the prospect of having to go somewhere else, but thankfully they are understanding. Dad dropped by right before lunch and witnessed the crying first hand. They are going to look in to some things that might be wrong medically (Whch has been my suspision!) So maybe we will be able to work it out! I hope so! But, if not, I'll know I did all I could!
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Old 08-29-2011, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by blessedmess8 View Post
Awww, thank you very much I think you are right and I will take your advice with regad to setting a timeline. I feel bad because Mom is very upset about the prospect of having to go somewhere else, but thankfully they are understanding. Dad dropped by right before lunch and witnessed the crying first hand. They are going to look in to some things that might be wrong medically (Whch has been my suspision!) So maybe we will be able to work it out! I hope so! But, if not, I'll know I did all I could!
That is great! Maybe it will be a simple fix, allegies, ear troubles, whathaveyou, but good that they are willing to look into it.

Regardless of what happens, don't ever feel bad about a relationship just not working out. You and the parents and even the child can all have the best intentions and sometimes, it just is what it is and not a good fit. He could be the best kid ever to a caregiver and you could be the best caregiver in the world and sometimes it just simply doesn't work. I know that is sad but it is what it is. It doesn;t mean you have failed or that the parents failed or there is anything wrong with the child.

Peanut butter is one of my favorite foods. So is tuna fish but they just don't go together.....ya know?

Still I really hope that something changes for you and in a perfect world, the family gets to stay and dcb makes a succesful turn around.
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Old 08-29-2011, 02:53 PM
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Thanks for posting your email. I tagged this thread in case someone in the future is looking for a good sample letter to parents. Your creativity lives on!
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Old 08-29-2011, 02:56 PM
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awesome letter! I wish I can find the words the way you do..
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Old 08-29-2011, 03:25 PM
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Let us know how it works out.

You know your client, your business, and this baby. You know what's best for everyone and the way to communicate with your client.

I want to caution you about putting things in writing that are this specific. Very often the reaction the parents have when they first hear a possible "NO" coming their way is VERY different than the reaction when the real no comes their way. You can't really test the temperature on their response until they have been given a firm no.

If this doesn't work out and they actually get a termination the contents of this letter could be used against you should they decide to leave before the time you say they are to leave and not pay.

Also.... this is a long shot but... should you ever have a kid that is harmed BEFORE they come to child care and end up either failing or dying on your watch... you do NOT want a letter out there saying that you have had times when you are at wits end and don't know what to do. It's not going to look good for you that you have a history of this kind of emotion.

This line in particular shows your frustration: "And, as you can imagine, my nerves stay shot most of the time, which is one thing. But it is having a negative impact on how I care for the other children."

I get that you are being honest with them but think of it in terms of the future should you ever be accused on harming a child that has been harmed before they were dropped off.

You also gave many examples of his crying. I would have said something more specific like "Little Johnny is happy when he is being held, walked, rocked, and I'm playing directly with him." When he is not being held, walked, rocked, or has an adult playing directly with him he is crying. When I am providing direct care to the other children he is crying.

He does really well when he has his own adult. He does poorly when he does not have his own adult.

See the difference?

You gave them the medical out... that there is something possibly physically wrong with him that is causing this. That may be true but IF they are in the process of apointments you could have a VERY long haul while they try this... and talk to this doc... etc. You could end up with a day to day deal where they are saying to hold on while they talk to so and so. You can also get a lot of "he's fine.. the doc says he's great... so we will try THIS food... or this formula... or this schedule...

You could have a LOT of that to buy time and make this deal really gray every day.

In the end... You have to consider that he just wants his own adult. If there was something physically wrong with him it would be odd that he's fine as long as he's held, walked, rocked, and one to oned.

There's also a chance that with that whole letter... all the !!!! and "i love the boy" that the Mom heard ONE thing... and that is that you may term. Everything else you said to her she already knows... she knows he cries if he doesn't have an adult on him one to one and she expects that you feel this way about the kid.

So you aren't giving her anything she doesn't already know EXCEPT that you may term. Be prepared for THAT to be the only thing she GETS out of this. So if that is the case then her position will be "are you going to keep him or not?"

You said " I feel bad because Mom is very upset about the prospect of having to go somewhere else, but thankfully they are understanding."

They HAVE to be understanding about this today because they need you for day care. After all that LONG specific letter and this is her reaction?

It would make me a little nervous.... I would have preferred a reaction of "I'm so sorry that he has been such a challenge. I don't expect you to hold him and entertain him all day long. If we could afford that we would have hired a Nanny. We want you and the kids to be happy too. We will work on this at home and I'll give my ped a call. This has to change and I know we will have to make changes at home."
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Old 08-29-2011, 04:12 PM
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Thanks for all that advice, Nannyde. The mom was actually crying at work and they are making an appointment with a new medical provider. This is not a kid that just started, but one I've had since birth almost and these problems haven't always been there. I realize their "understanding" may very well cease if I do terminate him. But, I was sincere in saying I would work with them to figure this out, so I will.
And, documentation is key! Always, always document any marks or bruises they come in with to cover your own booty! Daycare 101!
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Old 08-29-2011, 06:44 PM
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I was personally confused by all the exclamation points when discussing something so serious. I also felt that the letter was overally familiar, not professional enough (JMO). I think you need to think about and discuss your specific goals and timelines regarding progress with this boy otherwise the parents can easily buy time (as nanny put it) by agreeing with you (which isn't necessarily productive) and promising something vague like "we're working on it". What goals do you need him to reach in order to stay in your group? What time frame are you putting on this? You just sound like a very caring person and even though you wrote this email, i can just see you getting strung along for months and months with this situation because even though you expressed issues, you weren't specific with what you do expect from him and how quickly you want this resolved.
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Old 08-29-2011, 07:28 PM
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I was personally confused by all the exclamation points when discussing something so serious. I also felt that the letter was overally familiar, not professional enough (JMO). I think you need to think about and discuss your specific goals and timelines regarding progress with this boy otherwise the parents can easily buy time (as nanny put it) by agreeing with you (which isn't necessarily productive) and promising something vague like "we're working on it". What goals do you need him to reach in order to stay in your group? What time frame are you putting on this? You just sound like a very caring person and even though you wrote this email, i can just see you getting strung along for months and months with this situation because even though you expressed issues, you weren't specific with what you do expect from him and how quickly you want this resolved.
Definitely see your point. Not sure about the exlamation points I AM very familiar with all my families. I view what I do as a partership with them in the endeavor of raising their children. Some people may not hold the same view or think I'm not "professional" enough, but it is what works for the kids, in my experience. I considered this e-mail to be the beginning of a process with the parents. I'm sure there will eventually have be timelines and goals set out. But, this was an introduction of the issue with the parents. I do care a great deal, but I don't plan to just leave it in their hands from here on out. This was very emotional for the Momand I felt like I needed to be sensitive to that. I always like to turn the tables and think about how I would feel, as a parent.
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Old 08-29-2011, 07:29 PM
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Thanks for posting your email. I tagged this thread in case someone in the future is looking for a good sample letter to parents. Your creativity lives on!
Thank you!!!
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Old 08-29-2011, 07:29 PM
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awesome letter! I wish I can find the words the way you do..
Thank you very much!!
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Old 08-30-2011, 07:44 AM
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Default Sorry, but I have to vent....

While I agree that it is important to be professional, it is also important to remember that not all providers choose to be a "professional business only" all the time...What I mean by that is there are many providers out there who have built trusting and comfortable relationships with the families they are providing care for.

Not every parent is going to sue or be unhappy with being told no. Many parents are completely willing to forge that bond with their family child care provider as a member of their family....even when things do not work out.

I have been in this situation before and had no qualms about being completely honest and forthcoming about the situation. I used many of the same words and content as the OP. I had not one notion or clue that the parent would suddenly turn on me and be a completely different person because of what I was telling her. I knew our relationship and I knew how to communicate effectively with her. I termed a child for VERY similar reasons and the parents and I are still close. We worked together trusting that each was doing our part and trying to help the child and didn't worry one bit about legal ramifications or misunderstandings that could have happened. Ultimatley, I termed the child and mom understood 100%. Her child ended up having a one on one caregiver and when their 2nd child was born, he was placed in care with me.

Why??? Because the family and I had a relationship that was genuine and supportive and above all else trusting of each other. I get that there are times we should watch our backs and always prepare for the flip side, but sometimes, it is down right draining being "on guard" all the time. I find that I rather enjoy my job when I can really bond with a family and have that type of relationship. I don't have girls nights out with the mothers or go on family camping trips but I can still have a good, quality relationship with a family without always having to keep one eye on the "what ifs". Trust is an absolutely vital in this business.

I personally run my business as a business but there are some that just run it as a FAMILY child care. And successfully, I might add. That is the basis for many of the childcare providers out there.

I know that PP's were merely trying to make sure the OP saw the other side of the coin but I think she has a good handle on the situation and I don't feel she should change her words and how she feels because a parent might take it wrong after the fact. Not every situation is always like this.

I have a lot of respect for a lot of the members on this forum and the advice and knowledge that each of them brings to the discussions here, but I admittedly have to agree with some of the unregistered posters I have seen lately and say that sometimes our experience comes off as jaded and pessimistic.

I don't want people to view our profession in that way. I want parents, providers and the general public know that although we can work in a respectable and business like manner, we are also choosing a profession that does require a great deal of empathy and trust with those that enter or programs and homes. We aren't herding cattle or assembling a product via an assembly line. We are caring for children and to me that means being a support system to the family as well.

Lastly, I apologize if this comes out wrong to anyone but I have been hanging back and doing more lurking than posting for a few weeks now and I am trying really hard to read the posts and threads as if I were a parent and honestly, if I was really a parent only and not a provider, I wouldn't post a comment or ask advice on this forum. It isn't because there isn't alot of good advice out there or alot of great suggestions and tips because there are.....but it doesn't always come out as supportive and helpful. Alot of times it comes out as "this is wrong" and "this will happen" and "you will be sorry" or "watch out" and honestly that isn't always the message I want to put out there or hear.

Last edited by Blackcat31; 08-30-2011 at 08:03 AM.
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Old 08-30-2011, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
While I agree that it is important to be professional, it is also important to remember that not all providers choose to be a "professional business only" all the time...What I mean by that is there are many providers out there who have built trusting and comfortable relationships with the families they are providing care for.

Not every parent is going to sue or be unhappy with being told no. Many parents are completely willing to forge that bond with their family child care provider as a member of their family....even when things do not work out.

I have been in this situation before and had no qualms about being completely honest and forthcoming about the situation. I used many of the same words and content as the OP. I had not one notion or clue that the parent would suddenly turn on me and be a completely different person because of what I was telling her. I knew our realtionship and I knew how to communicate effectively with her. I termed a child for VERY similar reasons and the parents and I are still close. We worked together trusting that each was doing our part and trying to help the child and didn't worry one bit about legal ramifications or misunderstandings that could have happened. Ultimatley, I termed the child and mom understood 100%. Her child ended up having a one on one caregiver and when their 2nd child was born, he was placed in care with me.

Why??? Because the family and I had a relationship that was genuine and supportive and above all else trusting of each other. I get that there are times we should watch our backs and always prepare for the flip side, but sometimes, it is down right draining being "on guard" all the time. I find that I rather enjoy my job when I can really bond with a family and have that type of relationship. I don't have girls nights out with the mothers or go on family camping trips but I can still have a good, quality relationship with a family without always having to keep one eye on the "what ifs". Trust is an absolutely vital in this business.

I personally run my business as a business but there are some that just run it as a FAMILY child care. And successfully, I might add. That is the basis for many of the childcare providers out there.

I know that PP's were merely trying to make sure the OP saw the other side of the coin but I think she has a good handle on the situation and I don't feel she should change her words and how she feels because a parent might take it wrong after the fact. Not every situation is always like this.

I have a lot of respect for a lot of the members on this forum and the advice and knowledge that each of them brings to the discussions here, but I admittedly have to agree with some of the unregistered posters I have seen lately and say that sometimes our experience comes off as jaded and pessimistic.

I don't want people to view our profession in that way. I want parents, providers and the general public know that although we can work in a respectable and business like manner, we are also choosing a profession that does require a great deal of empathy and trust with those that enter or programs and homes. We aren't herding cattle or assembling a product via an assembly line. We are caring for children and to me that means being a support system to the family as well.

Lastly, I apologize if this comes out wrong to anyone but I have been hanging back and doing more lurking than posting for a few weeks now and I am trying really hard to read the posts and threads as if I were a parent and honestly, if I was really a parent only and not a provider, I wouldn't post a comment or ask advice on this forum. It isn't because there isn't alot of good advice out there or alot of great suggestions and tips because there are.....but it doesn't always come out as supportive and helpful. Alot of times it comes out as "this is wrong" and "this will happen" and "you will be sorry" or "watch out" and honestly that isn't always the message I want to put out there or hear.
Very well put! This is why I don't post as much as I want to.
Sometimes there is really good advise and sometimes people just want to criticize every word and tear you apart. Our job is hard enough as it is.
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Old 08-30-2011, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
While I agree that it is important to be professional, it is also important to remember that not all providers choose to be a "professional business only" all the time...What I mean by that is there are many providers out there who have built trusting and comfortable relationships with the families they are providing care for.

Not every parent is going to sue or be unhappy with being told no. Many parents are completely willing to forge that bond with their family child care provider as a member of their family....even when things do not work out.

I have been in this situation before and had no qualms about being completely honest and forthcoming about the situation. I used many of the same words and content as the OP. I had not one notion or clue that the parent would suddenly turn on me and be a completely different person because of what I was telling her. I knew our relationship and I knew how to communicate effectively with her. I termed a child for VERY similar reasons and the parents and I are still close. We worked together trusting that each was doing our part and trying to help the child and didn't worry one bit about legal ramifications or misunderstandings that could have happened. Ultimatley, I termed the child and mom understood 100%. Her child ended up having a one on one caregiver and when their 2nd child was born, he was placed in care with me.

Why??? Because the family and I had a relationship that was genuine and supportive and above all else trusting of each other. I get that there are times we should watch our backs and always prepare for the flip side, but sometimes, it is down right draining being "on guard" all the time. I find that I rather enjoy my job when I can really bond with a family and have that type of relationship. I don't have girls nights out with the mothers or go on family camping trips but I can still have a good, quality relationship with a family without always having to keep one eye on the "what ifs". Trust is an absolutely vital in this business.

I personally run my business as a business but there are some that just run it as a FAMILY child care. And successfully, I might add. That is the basis for many of the childcare providers out there.

I know that PP's were merely trying to make sure the OP saw the other side of the coin but I think she has a good handle on the situation and I don't feel she should change her words and how she feels because a parent might take it wrong after the fact. Not every situation is always like this.

I have a lot of respect for a lot of the members on this forum and the advice and knowledge that each of them brings to the discussions here, but I admittedly have to agree with some of the unregistered posters I have seen lately and say that sometimes our experience comes off as jaded and pessimistic.

I don't want people to view our profession in that way. I want parents, providers and the general public know that although we can work in a respectable and business like manner, we are also choosing a profession that does require a great deal of empathy and trust with those that enter or programs and homes. We aren't herding cattle or assembling a product via an assembly line. We are caring for children and to me that means being a support system to the family as well.

Lastly, I apologize if this comes out wrong to anyone but I have been hanging back and doing more lurking than posting for a few weeks now and I am trying really hard to read the posts and threads as if I were a parent and honestly, if I was really a parent only and not a provider, I wouldn't post a comment or ask advice on this forum. It isn't because there isn't alot of good advice out there or alot of great suggestions and tips because there are.....but it doesn't always come out as supportive and helpful. Alot of times it comes out as "this is wrong" and "this will happen" and "you will be sorry" or "watch out" and honestly that isn't always the message I want to put out there or hear.

I agree, very well said Blackcat!



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Originally Posted by Michelle View Post
Very well put! This is why I don't post as much as I want to.
Sometimes there is really good advise and sometimes people just want to criticize every word and tear you apart. Our job is hard enough as it is.
Me too Michelle. I'm very careful what I post and what questions I ask. I try my best to make my posts only upbeat and positive. I would never tear anyone apart. It hurts, I know from experience.
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  #22  
Old 08-30-2011, 08:21 AM
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I remember a new poster just asking a question about bottles and feeding etc. Someone had tore her apart saying if she didn't know how to make formula or wash a bottle why is she doing daycare? I couldn't believe it! Things change over the years, In the old days they used to boil everything. I remember my grandma telling me the nurse in the hospital wanted her to sterilize her breast with rubbing alcohol before feeding her baby. Everybody has had crazy advise by well meaning people .
This woman probably didn't have kids and just wanted advice. It make me sad to read some threads on here.
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  #23  
Old 08-30-2011, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
While I agree that it is important to be professional, it is also important to remember that not all providers choose to be a "professional business only" all the time...What I mean by that is there are many providers out there who have built trusting and comfortable relationships with the families they are providing care for.

Not every parent is going to sue or be unhappy with being told no. Many parents are completely willing to forge that bond with their family child care provider as a member of their family....even when things do not work out.

I have been in this situation before and had no qualms about being completely honest and forthcoming about the situation. I used many of the same words and content as the OP. I had not one notion or clue that the parent would suddenly turn on me and be a completely different person because of what I was telling her. I knew our realtionship and I knew how to communicate effectively with her. I termed a child for VERY similar reasons and the parents and I are still close. We worked together trusting that each was doing our part and trying to help the child and didn't worry one bit about legal ramifications or misunderstandings that could have happened. Ultimatley, I termed the child and mom understood 100%. Her child ended up having a one on one caregiver and when their 2nd child was born, he was placed in care with me.

Why??? Because the family and I had a relationship that was genuine and supportive and above all else trusting of each other. I get that there are times we should watch our backs and always prepare for the flip side, but sometimes, it is down right draining being "on guard" all the time. I find that I rather enjoy my job when I can really bond with a family and have that type of relationship. I don't have girls nights out with the mothers or go on family camping trips but I can still have a good, quality relationship with a family without always having to keep one eye on the "what ifs". Trust is an absolutely vital in this business.

I personally run my business as a business but there are some that just run it as a FAMILY child care. And successfully, I might add. That is the basis for many of the childcare providers out there.

I know that PP's were merely trying to make sure the OP saw the other side of the coin but I think she has a good handle on the situation and I don't feel she should change her words and how she feels because a parent might take it wrong after the fact. Not every situation is always like this.

I have a lot of respect for a lot of the members on this forum and the advice and knowledge that each of them brings to the discussions here, but I admittedly have to agree with some of the unregistered posters I have seen lately and say that sometimes our experience comes off as jaded and pessimistic.

I don't want people to view our profession in that way. I want parents, providers and the general public know that although we can work in a respectable and business like manner, we are also choosing a profession that does require a great deal of empathy and trust with those that enter or programs and homes. We aren't herding cattle or assembling a product via an assembly line. We are caring for children and to me that means being a support system to the family as well.

Lastly, I apologize if this comes out wrong to anyone but I have been hanging back and doing more lurking than posting for a few weeks now and I am trying really hard to read the posts and threads as if I were a parent and honestly, if I was really a parent only and not a provider, I wouldn't post a comment or ask advice on this forum. It isn't because there isn't alot of good advice out there or alot of great suggestions and tips because there are.....but it doesn't always come out as supportive and helpful. Alot of times it comes out as "this is wrong" and "this will happen" and "you will be sorry" or "watch out" and honestly that isn't always the message I want to put out there or hear.
I don't know Black. I think this is the perfect place to put out potential scenarios of parental response especially when you have seen or had these experiences in the past with multiple families and multiple caregivers.

I think this IS the place to say.... X could happen. Y could happen. Watch out for XY and Z.

Where else can you go for that? Where else on the net can you tap into experience of many providers at many different levels of education and experience?

My first paragraph to her was: You know your client, your business, and this baby. You know what's best for everyone and the way to communicate with your client.

That says it all in respect and support. SHE knows best.

My response was to get her to think specifically about the ramifications of putting specific "I" statements in writing, putting specific examples of crying, how these statements could come back to haunt her in the future should be the unlucky recipient of a child who has been harmed before he was brought into her care, and the possibility that the medical angle may draw this out for a while if there isn't anything really wrong with the kid.

Those things NEED to be discussed. If we can't do that how can we learn from each other?

I wrote out a VERY long response last night to describe a common cycle of parents behavior when they are either let go or given the news that they may be let go. It took me over an hour to write.

I decided to delete it and not post it because I don't want to disrespect the notion that she knows best.

Is it best to describe what your experience is specifically in a situation like this... or is it better to watch it unfold and say "sorry that happened to you"?
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  #24  
Old 08-30-2011, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
While I agree that it is important to be professional, it is also important to remember that not all providers choose to be a "professional business only" all the time...What I mean by that is there are many providers out there who have built trusting and comfortable relationships with the families they are providing care for.

Not every parent is going to sue or be unhappy with being told no. Many parents are completely willing to forge that bond with their family child care provider as a member of their family....even when things do not work out.

I have been in this situation before and had no qualms about being completely honest and forthcoming about the situation. I used many of the same words and content as the OP. I had not one notion or clue that the parent would suddenly turn on me and be a completely different person because of what I was telling her. I knew our relationship and I knew how to communicate effectively with her. I termed a child for VERY similar reasons and the parents and I are still close. We worked together trusting that each was doing our part and trying to help the child and didn't worry one bit about legal ramifications or misunderstandings that could have happened. Ultimatley, I termed the child and mom understood 100%. Her child ended up having a one on one caregiver and when their 2nd child was born, he was placed in care with me.

Why??? Because the family and I had a relationship that was genuine and supportive and above all else trusting of each other. I get that there are times we should watch our backs and always prepare for the flip side, but sometimes, it is down right draining being "on guard" all the time. I find that I rather enjoy my job when I can really bond with a family and have that type of relationship. I don't have girls nights out with the mothers or go on family camping trips but I can still have a good, quality relationship with a family without always having to keep one eye on the "what ifs". Trust is an absolutely vital in this business.

I personally run my business as a business but there are some that just run it as a FAMILY child care. And successfully, I might add. That is the basis for many of the childcare providers out there.

I know that PP's were merely trying to make sure the OP saw the other side of the coin but I think she has a good handle on the situation and I don't feel she should change her words and how she feels because a parent might take it wrong after the fact. Not every situation is always like this.

I have a lot of respect for a lot of the members on this forum and the advice and knowledge that each of them brings to the discussions here, but I admittedly have to agree with some of the unregistered posters I have seen lately and say that sometimes our experience comes off as jaded and pessimistic.

I don't want people to view our profession in that way. I want parents, providers and the general public know that although we can work in a respectable and business like manner, we are also choosing a profession that does require a great deal of empathy and trust with those that enter or programs and homes. We aren't herding cattle or assembling a product via an assembly line. We are caring for children and to me that means being a support system to the family as well.

Lastly, I apologize if this comes out wrong to anyone but I have been hanging back and doing more lurking than posting for a few weeks now and I am trying really hard to read the posts and threads as if I were a parent and honestly, if I was really a parent only and not a provider, I wouldn't post a comment or ask advice on this forum. It isn't because there isn't alot of good advice out there or alot of great suggestions and tips because there are.....but it doesn't always come out as supportive and helpful. Alot of times it comes out as "this is wrong" and "this will happen" and "you will be sorry" or "watch out" and honestly that isn't always the message I want to put out there or hear.
I agree with others...this was very well put!
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  #25  
Old 08-30-2011, 08:58 AM
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cheerfuldom cheerfuldom is offline
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I like what you had to say Blackcat. I think it's important for a provider to know how to "read" a specific family so you know what approach is best. The "business only" approach seems the only way to deal with certain families and situations. I love your approach and do this with some of my families and others, it really has to be very specific, simple instructions with no friends type relationship behind it. I don't go into a relationship with a new client as anything but business only in order to lay a good foundation of boundaries. Once trust is built, etc. I can then allow a little more freedom within a relationship. Thats what works for me. I'd love to be able to promise a family type relationship with all my families but unfortunately, some parents cannot handle that at all while still understanding that this is a business first and foremost.
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  #26  
Old 08-30-2011, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nannyde View Post
I don't know Black. I think this is the perfect place to put out potential scenarios of parental response especially when you have seen or had these experiences in the past with multiple families and multiple caregivers.

I think this IS the place to say.... X could happen. Y could happen. Watch out for XY and Z.

Where else can you go for that? Where else on the net can you tap into experience of many providers at many different levels of education and experience?

My first paragraph to her was: You know your client, your business, and this baby. You know what's best for everyone and the way to communicate with your client.

That says it all in respect and support. SHE knows best.

My response was to get her to think specifically about the ramifications of putting specific "I" statements in writing, putting specific examples of crying, how these statements could come back to haunt her in the future should be the unlucky recipient of a child who has been harmed before he was brought into her care, and the possibility that the medical angle may draw this out for a while if there isn't anything really wrong with the kid.

Those things NEED to be discussed. If we can't do that how can we learn from each other?

I wrote out a VERY long response last night to describe a common cycle of parents behavior when they are either let go or given the news that they may be let go. It took me over an hour to write.

I decided to delete it and not post it because I don't want to disrespect the notion that she knows best.

Is it best to describe what your experience is specifically in a situation like this... or is it better to watch it unfold and say "sorry that happened to you"?
Nan~ You are right, you did say she does know her client best, and I agree 1000% that this is the place to have all the possible scenarios presented so we can make an educated decision. But I still feel as though alot of the advice posted on this forum is presented in a manner that is jaded and pessimistic about parents in general. I respect you tremendously for the wealth of info and knowledge you have in the field and how well you can see all angels of a situation but at the same time, sometimes support is all a provider is looking for.

Sometimes providers don't want to hear all the what ifs and all the different scenarios. I think sometimes a provider just wants to hear that they did what was best for them. I know realistically we should point out all the different things that could and do go wrong but doing that sometimes puts an air of superiority out there and makes the whole feel of the post and forum in general to be unsupportive and cold. kwim?

I've been in this biz a long time too and I really do have side to me that questions everything and looks at all the possible outcomes but at the same I think that side grew in me because of the experiences I have had in the past two decades (good and bad). It isn't knowledge any one could have told me or given me. It was knowledge I learned the hard way and knowledge that is now mine because I put my time in.

Maybe posters just need to be more specific in what it is they want....advice, some different angles, simply a pat on the back....IDK, but I have referred a lot of providers and parents to this forum as of late, and the biggest thing I keep getting in return for feedback is that this place is not very supportive or helpful and that the negative overtones make it a place that doesn't seem to be helpful but rather a "devil's advocate" type atmosphere. So maybe it isn't the responses but it is the postings in general....like I said, I don't know and it is hard to get points across when not being able to use tone or feeling other than !!!!'s which to me just said the OP was really feeling helpless and strongly about wanting to fix the situation.

I also disagree about her "I" statements....I think we should always speak that way. We are taught to argue constructively by using effective communication and one of the biggest effective communication skills we have is those "I" statements. Using anything but how "I" feel is projecting blame or responsibilty to others. We are only responsible for how we feel. We can only change how we feel and how we act or react. We have no control over how another person feels or acts thus using "I" when presenting a situation is the most constructive form of communicating.

Maybe I should have started a new thread an not hijacked blessedmess8's thread (My apologies blessedmess8 ) but I was just suddenly overwhelmed with the feeling that the responses she got weren't the responses she was looking for. (I do NOT mean to speak for you either blessedmess8) IDK, maybe I am "hearing" her wrong but that is just the feeling I got.....combined with a rather in-depth conversation I had with a few provider friends and a couple parents I have been talking about in regards to this forum and the atmosphere it has.

I have noticed a few old and endless threads that are popping up recently and it seems that the same song and dance just keeps getting played over and over and it is unregistered people attacking members and members doing basically the same thing right back. There have been tons of threads asking about why we have an open forum and why unregistered's are allowed on here and it has been said over and over again that Michael wants it that way so providers and parents can learn and share with each other....yet it seems it is "us vs. them" all the time.

Maybe we, as providers, should only be posting in the "closed" section (which would deny parents the ability to learn from our experiences) or maybe we should all simply take the time to reread and really think about what it is we are saying and how we are saying it. (Like you said about the long post you wrote and then deleted because of how you felt the OP would take incorrectly).

As you can see, I am really having a tough time with this as I have the unfortunate ability to always see all sides of a situation and that in itself gets me in trouble sometimes. I also agree that you do need to present ALL the scenarios and I agree that it is a wealth of information. I also agree that we need to discuss these things but then how come, I feel like this forum isn't that? I am obviously not alone in this feeling as pp's have posted.
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  #27  
Old 08-30-2011, 09:45 AM
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Thanks, Blackcat! I am not new to daycare and have had lots of expperience with parents - good and bad experiences. I appreciate the constructive criticism, but was surprised at some things in a thread where I specifically asked for reassurance about WHAT I was doing in possibly terminating a child. The letter had been sent, so there was no going back and editing anything at that point! There is a time and place for everything! As providers I'd hope we'd uplift one another at least as often as we play devil's advocate or criticize. This particular situation seems to be working for me. By being up front with my own feelings and frustrations, it seems Mom is feeling able to be open about her's as well. Before, I think she felt the need to come accross as a great Mom who loved all her time with her child! (You know how judgmental we providers can be!) Now, we've got it all out on the table and neither of us has to pretend we are enjoying our days with the screaming, upset child! They have a Dr. Appointment with a different physician this afternoon. I think intuition is a key trait for this profession. That, and compassion. I don't know how this will end, but I'm handling it the best I know how and I am appreciative of all the advice and the sharing of others' knowledge and experiences! I am especially grateful for the encouragement and words of affirmation, as this is difficult for me!
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Old 08-30-2011, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by blessedmess8 View Post
Thanks, Blackcat! I am not new to daycare and have had lots of expperience with parents - good and bad experiences. I appreciate the constructive criticism, but was surprised at some things in a thread where I specifically asked for reassurance about WHAT I was doing in possibly terminating a child. The letter had been sent, so there was no going back and editing anything at that point! There is a time and place for everything! As providers I'd hope we'd uplift one another at least as often as we play devil's advocate or criticize. This particular situation seems to be working for me. By being up front with my own feelings and frustrations, it seems Mom is feeling able to be open about her's as well. Before, I think she felt the need to come accross as a great Mom who loved all her time with her child! (You know how judgmental we providers can be!) Now, we've got it all out on the table and neither of us has to pretend we are enjoying our days with the screaming, upset child! They have a Dr. Appointment with a different physician this afternoon. I think intuition is a key trait for this profession. That, and compassion. I don't know how this will end, but I'm handling it the best I know how and I am appreciative of all the advice and the sharing of others' knowledge and experiences! I am especially grateful for the encouragement and words of affirmation, as this is difficult for me!
I am glad you are feeling good about this. I apologize if I was speaking for you or misinterpreting anything incorrectly. The point I was trying to make is I got the feeling you were looking for exactly that....support; nothing more and nothing less. I think like Nan said, you do know your client best and what her and your needs are and I think we all have that same "What if...?" feeling after we take a particularly difficult or unsure path.

I agree that sometimes parents try really hard to be what they think we are expecting them to be (I am sure the opposite is true as well ) and leveling with them as one mom to another or just an open honest explanation of what the situation is through our eyes is all that it takes for the parent to drop their guard and be the person they really are. People today are always so worried about being judged, as I am sure they should be since people are so judgemental about stuff. This is supportive of the many threads we have had on her about the ME generation and new way of thinking.

But just because I am a parent of young adults or a seasoned provider, doesn't make me any better or worse than a new mom or new provider who is simply forging their way into unknown territory. It only makes me one step farther into experience that we should each earn ourselves. I hope things work out for you and again, I am sorry I hi-jacked your thread.

Please keep us posted on what the outcome is in this situation. I know we are a great bunch of gals and I know we all have similar AND different opinions on how to do things which is exactly why I stayed and joined the forum in the first place.

I just want everyone to feel loved, supported and understood.....
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  #29  
Old 08-30-2011, 10:27 AM
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I totally agree, Blackcat!
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