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  #1  
Old 04-15-2016, 07:50 AM
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Question Camera for In-Home Daycare?

Do any of you in home care providers have cameras? Pros and cons of having cameras for parents to view children during care?

I currently do not have cameras never really considered it and I dont feel a need for them, but a parent brought it up and it made me wonder how home providers feel about cameras and how many actually have them.
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  #2  
Old 04-15-2016, 08:06 AM
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There are many threads you can search on this. I would never do it. My dck's deserve privacy and confidentiality. I would never allow this or consider it. This parent has a trust issue and can choose centers who have this available to them just as easily. My number one reason is the kids that aren't theirs are none of their business.

The cost would be extreme as well. Me being kinda smart a*% would probably laugh and say "NOPE!" And that would be the end of any communication from me about the subject.
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  #3  
Old 04-15-2016, 08:38 AM
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As a home provider I would never, ever place cameras in my home. I wouldn't want any risk of them being on after hours or anything funky. It feels really invasive of my home and my own family.

But as a parent, I would absolutely never, ever send my child to a daycare without cameras. It's my personal preference and one of reasons I decided to stay home. I just couldn't stomach the thought of being completely out if touch with my children.

So I understand the parent's desire but as a home provider I'd suggest they go to a center of the cameras are s deal breaker
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Old 04-15-2016, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Do any of you in home care providers have cameras? Pros and cons of having cameras for parents to view children during care?

I currently do not have cameras never really considered it and I dont feel a need for them, but a parent brought it up and it made me wonder how home providers feel about cameras and how many actually have them.
Other threads about cameras.
http://www.daycare.com/forum/tags.php?tag=camera

I have cameras in my home. I have 6 inside and 6 outside.

I would NEVER allow a parent to view them. It would be a direct violation of privacy for other children/families.

I have them for liability reasons and to protect myself.

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As a home provider I would never, ever place cameras in my home. I wouldn't want any risk of them being on after hours or anything funky. It feels really invasive of my home and my own family.

But as a parent, I would absolutely never, ever send my child to a daycare without cameras. It's my personal preference and one of reasons I decided to stay home. I just couldn't stomach the thought of being completely out if touch with my children.

So I understand the parent's desire but as a home provider I'd suggest they go to a center of the cameras are s deal breaker
This is a good example of why I would never allow parents to view or have access to video feeds.
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Old 04-15-2016, 08:43 AM
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For a while, I had been planning to use cameras, but only because being male, parents might feel safer. I then thought about the privacy of the children and decided, no cameras. When I start up, I'm just going to let parents know about my open door policy.
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Old 04-15-2016, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
I have cameras in my home. I have 6 inside and 6 outside.

I would NEVER allow a parent to view them. It would be a direct violation of privacy for other children/families.

I have them for liability reasons and to protect myself.
I'm still thinking about that aspect of cameras, and as a male, the risk of trouble could be worse, so maybe I should consider that too. Recordings obviously would have to be time/date stamped, but then I heard of a case where someone used recordings to prove innocence and the judge said recording can be tampered with.
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Old 07-14-2016, 09:18 AM
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Default The Ultimate Open Door Policy

Parents trust what they can see. The providers that have cameras let their parents know up front that the cameras are in the school. In the world that we live in today most parents want, and rightfully so, desire to see that their children are safe throughout the day. Sure, providers can decide not to accept the change that is coming to child care provider's locations, but in our current world every person and every business cannot be instantly trusted. Cameras in the facility provide something a mere word can't.
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  #8  
Old 08-30-2016, 01:56 PM
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Default Cameras in Daycare

I have been using cameras since day one and is has been the best $500.00 I ever spent. The peace of mind that the families that have placed their children in our care is off the charts. They love being able to watch their children play during an often hard work day. They also can see every time a child gets a bump or bruise because we send them the clip right after the minor injury.

Everybody that works her and has their children here knows that they are being watch and recorded and nobody has a problem with it. When we have other peoples children, there is no right to privacy.

It has worked so well that I am starting a company that will offer to install cameras in the home daycare facilities and we will be paying them to do it. When you have 24 parents that come to you and request our upcoming service, saying no to them will create distrust and they will wonder what you are hiding. I would love to hear more feedback on this topic.
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  #9  
Old 08-30-2016, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaycareService View Post
Parents trust what they can see. The providers that have cameras let their parents know up front that the cameras are in the school. In the world that we live in today most parents want, and rightfully so, desire to see that their children are safe throughout the day. Sure, providers can decide not to accept the change that is coming to child care provider's locations, but in our current world every person and every business cannot be instantly trusted. Cameras in the facility provide something a mere word can't.
Are you aware of any center or home care provider that offers audio with video?
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Old 08-30-2016, 02:31 PM
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I have been using cameras since day one and is has been the best $500.00 I ever spent. The peace of mind that the families that have placed their children in our care is off the charts. They love being able to watch their children play during an often hard work day. They also can see every time a child gets a bump or bruise because we send them the clip right after the minor injury.

Everybody that works her and has their children here knows that they are being watch and recorded and nobody has a problem with it. When we have other peoples children, there is no right to privacy.

It has worked so well that I am starting a company that will offer to install cameras in the home daycare facilities and we will be paying them to do it. When you have 24 parents that come to you and request our upcoming service, saying no to them will create distrust and they will wonder what you are hiding. I would love to hear more feedback on this topic.
Will you be offering both audio and video or just video? Will your customers want single fixed cameras or multiple cameras in each child occupied area?
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  #11  
Old 08-30-2016, 02:44 PM
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I would never allow parents to stream in. I like the idea of having them for liability but haven't started that yet. The parent I termed in March who then called the state on me, she had suggested the idea to me even before I opened. I am so glad I never did it.

Not that I ever did anything wrong, but I couldn't imagine being constantly watched in my own home.
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  #12  
Old 08-30-2016, 10:42 PM
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In a daycare center I would find it appropriate but in a HOME childcare it's different. We have families and private issues parents speak to us about including private medical things and family matters. I would hate for our privacy to be compromised because someone is streaming. I have a baby monitor camera in the play/nap room and that's only visible by me with my monitor.
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Old 08-31-2016, 05:37 AM
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Default camera in home daycare

I have had cameras on my 2nd floor in each bedroom for naptime use only since I moved. They all have timers to come on just at that time. I can monitor the children for my reassurance and their safety. Could not manage without them.
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Old 08-31-2016, 12:35 PM
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One of many reason that I decided to open a family daycare is because I didnt like being on camera when I was a nanny. The family that I worked for snuck the cameras up after I began working for them. I had nothing to hide, but felt like they must not trust me, which made me feel extremely anxious throughout the day. After working for them for a few months the dad sent me a nasty text asking why one of his children had bruises on her face & neck I was dumbfounded & asked if he was sure it wasnt just blue marker? Needless to say, her "bruises" washed right off & while he apologized, for me the damage had been done.

IMO if I feel like a parent doesnt trust me to take care of their child, then they are not right for my program. So if I were to ever have cameras, it would be to cover my hide-never for a parent to view.
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Old 08-31-2016, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Heart12 View Post
One of many reason that I decided to open a family daycare is because I didnt like being on camera when I was a nanny. The family that I worked for snuck the cameras up after I began working for them. I had nothing to hide, but felt like they must not trust me, which made me feel extremely anxious throughout the day. After working for them for a few months the dad sent me a nasty text asking why one of his children had bruises on her face & neck I was dumbfounded & asked if he was sure it wasnt just blue marker? Needless to say, her "bruises" washed right off & while he apologized, for me the damage had been done.

IMO if I feel like a parent doesnt trust me to take care of their child, then they are not right for my program. So if I were to ever have cameras, it would be to cover my hide-never for a parent to view.
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  #16  
Old 08-31-2016, 01:44 PM
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We have multiple cameras inside and out. Parents are allowed to watch via an app and it is universally loved by all parents. We do not record sound nor can parents listen in. That would be one step too far. It is part of our contract with the families and not one has had a problem.

It is not about whether or not the parents trust you, it is to protect the children and to provide answers to how that bump happened or any other kind of event that a parent should know about. It is nice to be trusted, but not everybody will believe you. So the protection goes both ways. The childcare providers have protection against bogus accusations, which happens all the time. If you read all of the parent comments on Yelp or my home page, you would realize how important accountability is to these people. If you can take your dog to a doggie daycare and watch your dog play, why can't you do that with your child?

We are a few weeks away from launching the company and we are planning on franchising it so that as many kids can be monitored by their families as soon as possible. We will also be paying the daycare providers over $2500.00 per year to be part of our program.

If this business, in home daycare, didn't have such a negative stigma attached, there would no need for monitoring. But is does and frankly, if you read the papers or do the research, you will find appalling crimes committed on a daily basis because nobody is watch the people watching our children.

I own my in home daycare, and I cannot imagine not granting access to the people that are not only giving me their child, but they are also paying all of my bills with the enrollment. I owe the the right to see what goes on here.

Times are changing and this industry is going to as well. I am committed to making that happen, nationwide.
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Old 08-31-2016, 02:11 PM
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We have multiple cameras inside and out. Parents are allowed to watch via an app and it is universally loved by all parents. We do not record sound nor can parents listen in. That would be one step too far. It is part of our contract with the families and not one has had a problem.

It is not about whether or not the parents trust you, it is to protect the children and to provide answers to how that bump happened or any other kind of event that a parent should know about. It is nice to be trusted, but not everybody will believe you. So the protection goes both ways. The childcare providers have protection against bogus accusations, which happens all the time. If you read all of the parent comments on Yelp or my home page, you would realize how important accountability is to these people. If you can take your dog to a doggie daycare and watch your dog play, why can't you do that with your child?

We are a few weeks away from launching the company and we are planning on franchising it so that as many kids can be monitored by their families as soon as possible. We will also be paying the daycare providers over $2500.00 per year to be part of our program.

If this business, in home daycare, didn't have such a negative stigma attached, there would no need for monitoring. But is does and frankly, if you read the papers or do the research, you will find appalling crimes committed on a daily basis because nobody is watch the people watching our children.

I own my in home daycare, and I cannot imagine not granting access to the people that are not only giving me their child, but they are also paying all of my bills with the enrollment. I owe the the right to see what goes on here.

Times are changing and this industry is going to as well. I am committed to making that happen, nationwide.
I have no words.
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Old 08-31-2016, 02:19 PM
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We have multiple cameras inside and out. Parents are allowed to watch via an app and it is universally loved by all parents. We do not record sound nor can parents listen in. That would be one step too far. It is part of our contract with the families and not one has had a problem.

It is not about whether or not the parents trust you, it is to protect the children and to provide answers to how that bump happened or any other kind of event that a parent should know about. It is nice to be trusted, but not everybody will believe you. So the protection goes both ways. The childcare providers have protection against bogus accusations, which happens all the time. If you read all of the parent comments on Yelp or my home page, you would realize how important accountability is to these people. If you can take your dog to a doggie daycare and watch your dog play, why can't you do that with your child?

We are a few weeks away from launching the company and we are planning on franchising it so that as many kids can be monitored by their families as soon as possible. We will also be paying the daycare providers over $2500.00 per year to be part of our program.

If this business, in home daycare, didn't have such a negative stigma attached, there would no need for monitoring. But is does and frankly, if you read the papers or do the research, you will find appalling crimes committed on a daily basis because nobody is watch the people watching our children.

I own my in home daycare, and I cannot imagine not granting access to the people that are not only giving me their child, but they are also paying all of my bills with the enrollment. I owe the the right to see what goes on here.

Times are changing and this industry is going to as well. I am committed to making that happen, nationwide.
Wow. Just wow.
Nothing like a little fear mongering to sell a product.
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Old 08-31-2016, 03:39 PM
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Default Fear Mongering

Labeling this a fear mongering is a bit premature, considering that you know very little about how this will work. There is no cost to the daycare provider, in fact they will profit from being part of my our program thru the funds they will receive from us.

Here is a fact, kids are routinely abused in the in-home daycare, emotionally, physically and sexually. Children also have died in daycare, often at the hands of their care provider. The numbers are staggering and if you feel that I am fear mongering, great. But it is not to sell a product, it is to protect the children that need protecting from the people that their parents entrusted to care for them. So I have no problem pointing out what many do not know about this business.

I am not a outsider looking to cash in here, I am a daycare owner that has seen it in practice for 4 years now. When something happens here that a parent should know about, I send them the video of the event and that is end of any bad thoughts by a parent.

Part of our program will be to take some of that money and use it as a financial safety net for our members. A larger part will go into our nonprofit to provide our services free of charge in areas that cannot afford it. So before you prejudge our concept, realize that you are in a business where children are hurt on a daily basis. If you are okay with that and see no reason to so something to stop as much of that abuse as possible, then you are free not to join. That is your absolute right. But before you know what we are going to be about, perhaps you should hold the negative comments. It makes you sound like you have something to hide.
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Old 08-31-2016, 03:53 PM
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I'll bite.

Give us the numbers.

Quote: "Here is a fact, kids are routinely abused in the in-home daycare, emotionally, physically and sexually. Children also have died in daycare, often at the hands of their care provider. The numbers are staggering..."
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Old 08-31-2016, 04:06 PM
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But is does and frankly, if you read the papers or do the research, you will find appalling crimes committed on a daily basis because nobody is watch the people watching our children.
Would you do us the favor and actually DO the research?

Start here:

Perpetrator Relationship
Victim data were analyzed by relationship of (duplicate count) victims to their perpetrators. Four-fifths (81.2%) of victims were maltreated by a parent either acting alone or with someone else. Nearly two-fifths (36.8%) of victims were maltreated by their mother acting alone. One-fifth (19.0%) of victims were maltreated by their father acting alone. One-fifth (18.9%) of victims were maltreated by both parents. Thirteen percent (12.8%) of victims were maltreated by a perpetrator who was not a parent of the child. (See exhibit 3–H and related notes.)

http://www.acf.hhs.gov/sites/default...11.pdf#page=80


Read the entire thing if you are TRULY concerned about the children. Pay special attention to the data regarding who actually injures and kills children. You will see study after study that child care providers are a mere blip on the radar.


Exhibit 3–H Victims by Perpetrator Relationship, 2011 (duplicate count)
Perpetrator Relationship
Relationship Number PERCENTAGE


Mother (number) 253,107 PERCENTAGE 36.8

Father (number) 130,670 PERCENTAGE 19.0

Mother and Father(number) 129,793 PERCENTAGE 18.9

Mother and Other (number) 38,927 PERCENTAGE 5.7

Partner of Parent (Male) (number)16,734 PERCENTAGE 2.4

Relative (Male) (number) 19,905 PERCENTAGE 2.8


Child Daycare Provider(number) 2,474 PERCENTAGE 0.4

You will find appalling crimes committed on a daily basis because nobody is watching the parents.

Start with cameras at home... then we will agree with your premise.

Last edited by nannyde; 08-31-2016 at 04:17 PM.
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Old 08-31-2016, 04:19 PM
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Would you do us the favor and actually DO the research?

Start here:

Perpetrator Relationship
Victim data were analyzed by relationship of (duplicate count) victims to their perpetrators. Four-fifths (81.2%) of victims were maltreated by a parent either acting alone or with someone else. Nearly two-fifths (36.8%) of victims were maltreated by their mother acting alone. One-fifth (19.0%) of victims were maltreated by their father acting alone. One-fifth (18.9%) of victims were maltreated by both parents. Thirteen percent (12.8%) of victims were maltreated by a perpetrator who was not a parent of the child. (See exhibit 3–H and related notes.)

http://www.acf.hhs.gov/sites/default...11.pdf#page=80


Read the entire thing if you are TRULY concerned about the children. Pay special attention to the data regarding who actually injures and kills children. You will see study after study that child care providers are a mere blip on the radar.


Exhibit 3–H Victims by Perpetrator Relationship, 2011 (duplicate count)
Perpetrator Relationship
Relationship # PERCENTAGE


Mother 253,107 36.8

Father 130,670 19.0

Mother and Father 129,793 18.9

Mother and Other 38,927 5.7

Partner of Parent (Male) 16,734 2.4

Relative (Male) 19,905 2.8


Child Daycare Provider 2,474 0.4

You will find appalling crimes committed on a daily basis because nobody is watching the parents.

Start with cameras at home... then we will agree with your premise.


Most child abuse is done by immediate family.
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Old 08-31-2016, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nannyde View Post
Would you do us the favor and actually DO the research?

Start here:

Perpetrator Relationship
Victim data were analyzed by relationship of (duplicate count) victims to their perpetrators. Four-fifths (81.2%) of victims were maltreated by a parent either acting alone or with someone else. Nearly two-fifths (36.8%) of victims were maltreated by their mother acting alone. One-fifth (19.0%) of victims were maltreated by their father acting alone. One-fifth (18.9%) of victims were maltreated by both parents. Thirteen percent (12.8%) of victims were maltreated by a perpetrator who was not a parent of the child. (See exhibit 3–H and related notes.)

http://www.acf.hhs.gov/sites/default...11.pdf#page=80


Read the entire thing if you are TRULY concerned about the children. Pay special attention to the data regarding who actually injures and kills children. You will see study after study that child care providers are a mere blip on the radar.


Exhibit 3–H Victims by Perpetrator Relationship, 2011 (duplicate count)
Perpetrator Relationship
Relationship # PERCENTAGE


Mother 253,107 36.8

Father 130,670 19.0

Mother and Father 129,793 18.9

Mother and Other 38,927 5.7

Partner of Parent (Male) 16,734 2.4

Relative (Male) 19,905 2.8


Child Daycare Provider 2,474 0.4

You will find appalling crimes committed on a daily basis because nobody is watching the parents.

Start with cameras at home... then we will agree with your premise.

You imply that I have not done my research, thanks for that. But you seem to miss the point. I am only interested in the in-home daycare problem. To redirect me to peoples homes, where most of the abuse takes place is an odd argument for not doing what I am go to do. Because the number or percentage is small relative to actual parental abuse, does that mean that nothing should be done? Perhaps you should tell that to the family that had their kids hurt or worse at the hands of their provider. I had a good friends child died an in-daycare. I have seen what it does to a family, on both sides.

But thank you for posting some research. I really to appreciate it.
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Old 08-31-2016, 04:36 PM
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I'll bite.

Give us the numbers.

Quote: "Here is a fact, kids are routinely abused in the in-home daycare, emotionally, physically and sexually. Children also have died in daycare, often at the hands of their care provider. The numbers are staggering..."
So answer that ^^ since those are the staggering numbers you are referring to.
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Old 08-31-2016, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
You imply that I have not done my research, thanks for that. But you seem to miss the point. I am only interested in the in-home daycare problem. To redirect me to peoples homes, where most of the abuse takes place is an odd argument for not doing what I am go to do. Because the number or percentage is small relative to actual parental abuse, does that mean that nothing should be done? Perhaps you should tell that to the family that had their kids hurt or worse at the hands of their provider. I had a good friends child died an in-daycare. I have seen what it does to a family, on both sides.

But thank you for posting some research. I really to appreciate it.
You are missing the point. We RECEIVE these kids. We bring them into our HOME and assume their care. By receiving them we are put into the window of opportunity of being the abuser.

We are at a much greater risk of being accused of harming a kid a parent, relative, boyfriend, or girlfriend abused then a kid is of being abused by us.

Don't you care about the safety of kids away from daycare? We are less than a half of one percent of the perpetrators. This number INCLUDES anyone who is babysitting formally or informally, home providers, and center workers. Home child care providers care for a small percentage of the kids in daycare. We can't even be a fourth of the .04 percent.

Not to mention your plan isn't anything new. Other companies do the same thing. A $2500 offer to the center to install free equipment won't cover a month of staff time dealing with parents who want tape reviewed because snowflake got a boo boo.

The other issue is that cameras are useless unless a dedicated person is watching them. They are only valuable AFTER an incident.

I've done a few years of watching two centers cameras and with three DECADES of child care experience, it took me quite a while to figure out what I was seeing to PREVENT injury and abuse. A single fixed camera without audio gives about 15 percent of what is actually going on in the room. The staff figure out VERY quickly where the blind spots are and how to arrange themselves, the room, and the kids to decrease that 15 percent.

Just as casino cameras are useless if there isn't staff to watch them... child care cameras are also. Centers must have someone dedicated to watching them or they are just parent pleasers.

If you are doing home day care you have even a worse plan. Why in the world would a provider have you put cameras in and draw a fee from the parents when they could go to Costco and pay less than a grand and charge the parents a fee each month for the service? They don't need you.

Last edited by nannyde; 08-31-2016 at 04:47 PM.
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Old 08-31-2016, 04:40 PM
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I'm still in the middle of my work day. I will post tonight or tomorrow.
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Old 09-01-2016, 03:34 AM
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Could you please provide details on the business below? Very progressive. I'm interested.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
We have multiple cameras inside and out. Parents are allowed to watch via an app and it is universally loved by all parents. We do not record sound nor can parents listen in. That would be one step too far. It is part of our contract with the families and not one has had a problem.

It is not about whether or not the parents trust you, it is to protect the children and to provide answers to how that bump happened or any other kind of event that a parent should know about. It is nice to be trusted, but not everybody will believe you. So the protection goes both ways. The childcare providers have protection against bogus accusations, which happens all the time. If you read all of the parent comments on Yelp or my home page, you would realize how important accountability is to these people. If you can take your dog to a doggie daycare and watch your dog play, why can't you do that with your child?

We are a few weeks away from launching the company and we are planning on franchising it so that as many kids can be monitored by their families as soon as possible. We will also be paying the daycare providers over $2500.00 per year to be part of our program.

If this business, in home daycare, didn't have such a negative stigma attached, there would no need for monitoring. But is does and frankly, if you read the papers or do the research, you will find appalling crimes committed on a daily basis because nobody is watch the people watching our children.

I own my in home daycare, and I cannot imagine not granting access to the people that are not only giving me their child, but they are also paying all of my bills with the enrollment. I owe the the right to see what goes on here.

Times are changing and this industry is going to as well. I am committed to making that happen, nationwide.
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  #28  
Old 09-01-2016, 04:36 AM
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nannyde nannyde is offline
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I have been using cameras since day one and is has been the best $500.00 I ever spent. The peace of mind that the families that have placed their children in our care is off the charts. They love being able to watch their children play during an often hard work day. They also can see every time a child gets a bump or bruise because we send them the clip right after the minor injury.

Everybody that works her and has their children here knows that they are being watch and recorded and nobody has a problem with it. When we have other peoples children, there is no right to privacy.

It has worked so well that I am starting a company that will offer to install cameras in the home daycare facilities and we will be paying them to do it. When you have 24 parents that come to you and request our upcoming service, saying no to them will create distrust and they will wonder what you are hiding. I would love to hear more feedback on this topic.
I hope you came across this when you did your research.

https://www.census.gov/prod/2013pubs/p70-135.pdf

Almost one-quarter of all preschoolers
were cared for in organized
facilities, with day care centers
(13 percent) being more commonly
used than nursery or preschools
(6 percent). Overall, other nonrelatives
provided home-based care to
11 percent of preschoolers, with
5 percent cared for by family day
care providers.
The stat was really 4.6 percent but we can round it to five. (Table one)

If home day care is your target market, you picked the smallest market in the child care business.

You said "I have been using cameras since day one and is has been the best $500.00 I ever spent."

If you can pull it off for five hundred bucks for your home daycare, why do you believe there is a market to have you as a middle man receiving income from the small number of parents who send their kids to home daycare? Remember there are sib groups within that small number that have the same parent paying too.

If there is money to be made by doing cameras in in home daycare... why would we need you? $2500 a year wouldn't be enough money to get providers to let you have the rest of the money that could be made... since you must believe there is a profit to you after giving the provider a couple of hundred dollars a month.

Last edited by nannyde; 09-01-2016 at 04:40 AM.
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  #29  
Old 09-01-2016, 05:36 AM
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If you are doing home day care you have even a worse plan. Why in the world would a provider have you put cameras in and draw a fee from the parents when they could go to Costco and pay less than a grand and charge the parents a fee each month for the service? They don't need you.
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Originally Posted by nannyde View Post

You said "I have been using cameras since day one and is has been the best $500.00 I ever spent."

If you can pull it off for five hundred bucks for your home daycare, why do you believe there is a market to have you as a middle man receiving income from the small number of parents who send their kids to home daycare? Remember there are sib groups within that small number that have the same parent paying too.

If there is money to be made by doing cameras in in home daycare... why would we need you? $2500 a year wouldn't be enough money to get providers to let you have the rest of the money that could be made... since you must believe there is a profit to you after giving the provider a couple of hundred dollars a month.

Right?? I don't need a service of ANY kind.

I DO have cameras in my program and I spent more than $500 but as tech savvy as I am NOT, I certainly don't need to involve someone else in my system of recording and documenting the day to day activities of my program and parents most certainly don't want a 3rd party (a virtual stranger) to be privy to the info both they and I share back and forth among us.

Wonder what kind of credentials this person could provide? As a parent, I'd want to know your mother's half cousin twice removed's blood type and I'd want to know every tiny detail of every person that could potentially have access to these cameras and the footaged produced. Will it be archived? For how long? where? In what manner? Is it mine (the provider/the parent/the child) and I can access it and keep it for future use?

Oh my goodness, the endless questions I would have as both a parent and a provider and then let's not forget the child...Tom Copeland said a minor child CAN potentially come back and sure for something that happened in their childhood so their adult input counts too...

Information always comes with responsibility and liability.

The liability aspect alone for just the camera monitoring company is staggering when you really think about it...

NOT something I would ever ever ever involve myself in.

Right now the BIGGEST complaint providers have is the intrusion of government regulations and parents that try to run their businesses....I can't fathom a family provider that would intentionally invite more of that over-reaching idealism into their homes.
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Old 09-01-2016, 07:44 AM
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right now the biggest complaint providers have is the intrusion of government regulations and parents that try to run their businesses....i can't fathom a family provider that would intentionally invite more of that over-reaching idealism into their homes.
this.
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  #31  
Old 09-01-2016, 10:33 AM
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IMO if I feel like a parent doesnt trust me to take care of their child, then they are not right for my program.
Trust is a complex thing. It isn't black and white, it isn't yes or no.

People drop their kids off at daycare or school all the time to be watched by people whom they barely know. Would they trust these same people to look after a suitcase filled with $10 million in cash? Probably not. And yet, those parents care more about their kids than they would care about that $10 million.
Trust is another word for confidence. It can vary by degrees. You take a risk when you rely on someone else to do an important task for you. The confidence you have in someone doing something for you depends on the risk involved. How well do you know that person? How competent are they? How important is this task? How many ways might something go wrong?

By having cameras monitoring what is happening to their children, parents are able to reduce the risk of harm being done to their children. First, people behave differently when they know the are being observed. A provider who was thinking of harming a child might reconsider if the odds of being caught is higher. And if harm does happen, having evidence of it can prevent further harm from being done.

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Originally Posted by nannyde View Post
Are you aware of any center or home care provider that offers audio with video?
Audio recording of an area can be difficult, particularly with the low quality microphones that are typically pieced together with cameras. When you are present in a room and hear something with your own ears, your brain filters out what sounds are unimportant and focuses on those it believes to be useful. It ignores white noise, it cancels out echos, it adjusts the perceived volume of things you're looking at. Microphones don't do that. They record everything equally, and play it back exactly as it was recorded.
Audio also tends to convey less information than video, so I don't think it's likely to be more intrusive than video. But that also means it's less likely to be useful. Combined with the difficulty of getting a quality recording, it tends to not be of high importance to people looking for surveillance solutions.

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Originally Posted by nannyde View Post
Read the entire thing if you are TRULY concerned about the children.
It's disingenuous to suggest that the respondent isn't concerned about the children merely because he/she didn't propose a solution to protect every child in every situation.

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Originally Posted by nannyde View Post
Pay special attention to the data regarding who actually injures and kills children.
The data you provided says that many daycare providers actually harm children.

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Originally Posted by nannyde View Post
You will see study after study that child care providers are a mere blip on the radar.
A blip is not nothing. Four tenths of one percent of a huge number is still a big number. And statistics are numbers; they don't tell the experience of the individuals included. Do you imagine the victims and families of those children abused in daycare would be comforted by being told that what happened to them is just "a mere blip on the radar?" Is improving the safety of a child in daycare not worth considering because abuse only happens to a couple thousand of them a year?

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Originally Posted by nannyde View Post
Don't you care about the safety of kids away from daycare?
Does the respondent have it within his/her power to do something meaningful about child abuse outside of daycare?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nannyde View Post
Not to mention your plan isn't anything new. Other companies do the same thing.
How many other companies? What is the correct number of companies that there should be who offer this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nannyde View Post
A $2500 offer to the center to install free equipment won't cover a month of staff time dealing with parents who want tape reviewed because snowflake got a boo boo.
Do you have stats on this, too?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nannyde View Post
The other issue is that cameras are useless unless a dedicated person is watching them. They are only valuable AFTER an incident.
First, no, cameras are not only valuable after an incident. It's true that cameras are not crystal balls, and can only record what has happened. But people tend to behave differently if they think they are being observed. And there truly are a lot of studies showing this. It's referred to as the observer effect or Hawthorne effect. It's the reason why even conspicuously-placed fake cameras can improve security. People tend to behave better when they know someone might catch them doing wrong.

Second, no, cameras don't need someone constantly monitoring them to be useful. Most security cameras are not monitored live. They record the video to media, which is usually viewed only after some other evidence of an incident is discovered. Being able to view that recording allows corrective action to be taken.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nannyde View Post
Why in the world would a provider have you put cameras in and draw a fee from the parents when they could go to Costco and pay less than a grand and charge the parents a fee each month for the service? They don't need you.
A lot of people still need to be told by a trained technician to reboot their computers, modems, routers, etc when they experience problems. Setting up printers, programming DVRs, syncing an mp3 player... these are things that have gotten much easier to do since these devices were introduced to the market, and yet people are still paying for tech support to help them do it. I would be surprised if nobody was willing to pay for assistance setting up an IP camera and connecting it to a streaming service. You affirmed this yourself when you wrote, "Other companies do the same thing." Why would there be any companies at all doing this if everyone could just go buy a camera at a store?
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Old 09-01-2016, 02:20 PM
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Thank you, Small Batch for your insightful input. I would like to have a private convo with you to further discuss my new company and why I am doing this. You seem to get it, the motivation behind my plan. If you are interested in a chat, please email me,.

As for the rest of you who made comments, some aggressive, I do appreciate the feedback. I know that I would face the backlash from those who have their own vested interest. I am fine with that, I don't really care how harsh or closed minded you can be prior to hearing all of the details. Once we are ready to present it to the public, you will realize that the children are my priority. It will also provide security to the business owners regardless of whether or not you think its too big brother.

I will be advertising on this site and many others. This is coming and you can choose to participate, or not. That is the beauty of this country. Free choice. I am free to try and correct problems when they affect innocent children that are too young to advocate for themselves. Realize that you have 12 children who belong to other people and just because you work from you home does not give you a bigger right to privacy that a commercial center.

I will be absent for a couple of days due to a serious ankle injury, but I will be back and ready to answer your questions, or just listen to the naysayers.

Have a nice long holiday weekend.

Last edited by Blackcat31; 09-01-2016 at 03:14 PM. Reason: removed identifying info. Only registered users have access to PM functions
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  #33  
Old 09-01-2016, 02:29 PM
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Rockgirl Rockgirl is online now
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Thank you, Small Batch for your insightful input. I would like to have a private convo with you to further discuss my new company and why I am doing this. You seem to get it, the motivation behind my plan. If you are interested in a chat, please email me,

As for the rest of you who made comments, some aggressive, I do appreciate the feedback. I know that I would face the backlash from those who have their own vested interest. I am fine with that, I don't really care how harsh or closed minded you can be prior to hearing all of the details. Once we are ready to present it to the public, you will realize that the children are my priority. It will also provide security to the business owners regardless of whether or not you think its too big brother.

I will be advertising on this site and many others. This is coming and you can choose to participate, or not. That is the beauty of this country. Free choice. I am free to try and correct problems when they affect innocent children that are too young to advocate for themselves. Realize that you have 12 children who belong to other people and just because you work from you home does not give you a bigger right to privacy that a commercial center.

I will be absent for a couple of days due to a serious ankle injury, but I will be back and ready to answer your questions, or just listen to the naysayers.

Have a nice long holiday weekend.
Actually, yes, it does. This is my home.

And "this is coming"? Uh, ok.

Last edited by Blackcat31; 09-01-2016 at 03:13 PM.
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  #34  
Old 09-01-2016, 02:32 PM
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mommyneedsadayoff mommyneedsadayoff is offline
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It seems kind of fishy to me that "unregistered" seems to be promoting their business idea, as well as acting like another person (also unregistered) who approves of it?

As for the last post, I will leave it to the pros (nanny, BC, cat) to respond, as they will clearly obliterate your (lack of) argument. You say you run a daycare, ut somehow I doubt that.
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Old 09-01-2016, 02:34 PM
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It seems kind of fishy to me that "unregistered" seems to be promoting their business idea, as well as acting like another person (also unregistered) who approves of it?
Indeed!
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  #36  
Old 09-01-2016, 03:13 PM
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Blackcat31 Blackcat31 is offline
 
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Thank you, Small Batch for your insightful input. I would like to have a private convo with you to further discuss my new company and why I am doing this. You seem to get it, the motivation behind my plan. If you are interested in a chat, please email me,
As for the rest of you who made comments, some aggressive, I do appreciate the feedback. I know that I would face the backlash from those who have their own vested interest. I am fine with that, I don't really care how harsh or closed minded you can be prior to hearing all of the details. Once we are ready to present it to the public, you will realize that the children are my priority. It will also provide security to the business owners regardless of whether or not you think its too big brother.

I will be advertising on this site and many others. This is coming and you can choose to participate, or not. That is the beauty of this country. Free choice. I am free to try and correct problems when they affect innocent children that are too young to advocate for themselves. Realize that you have 12 children who belong to other people and just because you work from you home does not give you a bigger right to privacy that a commercial center.

I will be absent for a couple of days due to a serious ankle injury, but I will be back and ready to answer your questions, or just listen to the naysayers.

Have a nice long holiday weekend.
Um, pretty sure this site isn't available for you to advertise on for free. Especially a product or service that most providers find ridiculous. So unless you've already gotten approval from the owner of this site, I'd tread lightly when stating how you will be using this site.

Of course, you can still open/start any type of business you want. That IS free choice but I will share with you right now that if you continue to "sell" your product/service in the same manner you presented it here, you will find yourself without many customers.

Don't under estimate the members of this forum or their reach into the child care community.

I "converse" daily with 1,000's (NOT an exaggeration) of other providers across the country (in home, center and in other roles in the early childhood field) and when I brought up this subject and the type of service you are trying to sell most were much harsher than any member here was.

You can probably sell the idea to parents but since they aren't the business owners....good luck with that. I wouldn't count on parents being persuasive for you as most of us have years and years of experience teaching parents who actually runs our businesses.

I also mentioned this concept to my licensor and according to her after speaking with DHS relayed to me that your biggest fight will be the state. My licensor said she would never approve the use of open video feeds or cameras for parents. It would create way too much work for them having to follow up on complaints that parents "think" they witnessed as well as dealing with privacy issues.

I wish you luck and am glad to see that you are not feeling detoured due to the responses you are getting here. It takes determination to continue moving forward when your entire marketing group does not agree with you.
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Old 09-01-2016, 03:32 PM
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I wish you luck and am glad to see that you are not feeling detoured due to the responses you are getting here. It takes determination to continue moving forward when your entire marketing group does not agree with you.


Good luck in your business venture, seriously. There will be a few who like the idea, but I doubt you'll find any here.
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  #38  
Old 09-01-2016, 03:44 PM
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Default I am a real daycare owner

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Originally Posted by mommyneedsadayoff View Post
It seems kind of fishy to me that "unregistered" seems to be promoting their business idea, as well as acting like another person (also unregistered) who approves of it?

As for the last post, I will leave it to the pros (nanny, BC, cat) to respond, as they will clearly obliterate your (lack of) argument. You say you run a daycare, ut somehow I doubt that.
I do own my own business, an actual in home daycare in California. When we are ready to go live with the business, you will all realize that fact. And I am not acting like another person, I don't need to do that. So negative without all the facts. I will be a paid advertiser on this site as I expect nothing for free.
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Old 09-01-2016, 03:47 PM
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Good luck in your business venture, seriously. There will be a few who like the idea, but I doubt you'll find any here.
Thank you for your best wishes, I assume you are sincere. But I don't think you speak for all of the members. Time will tell if this will work, and I have plenty of that and over 25 years of startup experience in very large businesses. So I am used to being told what won't work by "experts". And I am also used to proving them wrong.

Buy thank you, Mike.
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  #40  
Old 09-01-2016, 03:50 PM
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Um, pretty sure this site isn't available for you to advertise on for free. Especially a product or service that most providers find ridiculous. So unless you've already gotten approval from the owner of this site, I'd tread lightly when stating how you will be using this site.

Of course, you can still open/start any type of business you want. That IS free choice but I will share with you right now that if you continue to "sell" your product/service in the same manner you presented it here, you will find yourself without many customers.

Don't under estimate the members of this forum or their reach into the child care community.

I "converse" daily with 1,000's (NOT an exaggeration) of other providers across the country (in home, center and in other roles in the early childhood field) and when I brought up this subject and the type of service you are trying to sell most were much harsher than any member here was.

You can probably sell the idea to parents but since they aren't the business owners....good luck with that. I wouldn't count on parents being persuasive for you as most of us have years and years of experience teaching parents who actually runs our businesses.

I also mentioned this concept to my licensor and according to her after speaking with DHS relayed to me that your biggest fight will be the state. My licensor said she would never approve the use of open video feeds or cameras for parents. It would create way too much work for them having to follow up on complaints that parents "think" they witnessed as well as dealing with privacy issues.

I wish you luck and am glad to see that you are not feeling detoured due to the responses you are getting here. It takes determination to continue moving forward when your entire marketing group does not agree with you.
Again, you don't speak for everybody. We will be reaching out to the parents as they are the people that write you the check. Don't forget there is power in their checkbook.
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  #41  
Old 09-01-2016, 03:54 PM
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I can't be the only one starting to find this comical.
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Old 09-01-2016, 04:31 PM
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I can't be the only one starting to find this comical.
You're not. I do rather enjoy reading some of the responses though. Why don't we have a mic drop emoji?
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  #43  
Old 09-01-2016, 04:45 PM
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Again, you don't speak for everybody. We will be reaching out to the parents as they are the people that write you the check. Don't forget there is power in their checkbook.
Only if I value the almighty dollar more than I what's right or wrong.
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  #44  
Old 09-01-2016, 05:13 PM
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Again, you don't speak for everybody. We will be reaching out to the parents as they are the people that write you the check. Don't forget there is power in their checkbook.
I don't recall speaking for anyone but myself.

Like all your other posts, you just gloss over what's being said and have yet to show anyone anything that backs up what you are saying.

You've posted no statistics, official reports or survey results. You have no marketing analysis or results of any types of preliminary sales projections.

You have not answered any of the questions or expanded on anything NannyDe has asked you nor have you attempted to "sell" any of us your idea/product/service.

Instead you appeared with fists raised and with an attitide reeking of immaturity and a lack of understanding or perspective for your target audience.

Will you have interested clients? Sure! Even Edsel sold at first.
But then the reality of why its a bad idea for all parties will factor in.....

I sincerly wish you luck. I won't ever be a customer but as a consumer in general, I like to do business with companies I can partner with not companies that attempt to use fear and paranoia as marketing tools.
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  #45  
Old 09-01-2016, 05:23 PM
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I sincerly wish you luck. I won't ever be a customer but as a consumer in general, I like to do business with companies I can partner with not companies that attempt to use fear and paranoia as marketing tools.
Exactly. I hope your business is successful. However, your delivery needs work. What you have done is to put people on the defensive. You are coming across as borderline threatening, telling us "This is coming" and saying you will talk to the parents, and implying those parents will pull their children if we don't install the cameras.

Also, telling us we don't have a right to privacy in our own homes....that's just absurd.
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Old 09-02-2016, 04:41 AM
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I am curious how telling parents they have to pay for the service that the providers are making money off of is going to go.
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Old 09-02-2016, 04:45 AM
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Second, no, cameras don't need someone constantly monitoring them to be useful. Most security cameras are not monitored live. They record the video to media, which is usually viewed only after some other evidence of an incident is discovered. Being able to view that recording allows corrective action to be taken.
Ummm isn't that what I said. They are useful AFTER an incident is discovered.

I actually was hired to watch two centers video cameras. That was my primary job for the centers. I had a jumbotron monitor and had just color video feed. I KNOW what watching cameras means. Do you know anyone in the country who has the job of watching daycare cameras? I had three decades of child care experience behind me and I had to teach myself to interpret what I was seeing so I could PREVENT accidents and abuse. Even with the staff KNOWING I was watching they worked their way around many things until I figured it out. I had the ability to call directly into the room and speak to them LIVE as it was happening... they still tried to beat the system.

They would go into closets with nothing in their hands and come out with nothing in their hands (talk on their cell phones they smuggled in their bras)

They would position the babies with the babies back to the cameras when they were feeding them.

They would rearrange the furniture in the room to block the view and then have their backs to the camera.

They would go to the wall right underneath the camera out of view. They would look at their room on camera and instantly see the blind spots... I would see them coming in and out of the blind spots.

They would FALL ASLEEP during nap time....

and on and on even though they knew they were being watched WITH a dedicated camera watcher. Of course we corrected things as they happened. We made them put the furniture in a position where I could see the best. We timed how long infants were in equipment and made calls to MAKE them take the infants who fell asleep in equipment out and put them to bed.

It was a work in progress every day... People don't just do the right thing because there are cameras. They learn in a couple of weeks how to beat them if they want to.

The ones who were corrected and didn't like the intrusion of being on camera and watched LEFT to go to a center where they just had cameras but no one watching or no cameras at all.

You said "But people tend to behave differently if they think they are being observed. And there truly are a lot of studies showing this. It's referred to as the observer effect or Hawthorne effect."

Hawthorne this... just a small sampling... All of these workers knew they were in rooms with cameras. Pay attention to the worker in the first one really closely. Some of these cases the workers were employees for YEARS and on camera. Some months... but the truth is that the workers get used to the cameras very quickly and they know how to work around them or they know they have a low likelihood of the video ever being watched.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGIt9wY2gpc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98_uScXl93A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmTecRray1U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ie5BL9uOv18

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLk7G_6JhnM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAiMSy3oTjs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlWHnhU2yI0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_dyLSnjIzU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKxQjZDZ5Lc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWZlgxm-RlA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UI_aJI-GFdY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vs-P7YvCWEQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBhUBnmOUmE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGf3wZ1-uPA
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  #48  
Old 09-04-2016, 01:31 PM
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Thank you, Small Batch for your insightful input. I would like to have a private convo with you to further discuss my new company and why I am doing this. You seem to get it, the motivation behind my plan. If you are interested in a chat, please email me,.
Not to be unkind, but I do not have an interest in your company or product. I don't know what you mean by "get it." I get the value of surveillance systems and I get the value of making a buck. Other than that, I am not sure what you mean. Best of luck to you though.

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Ummm isn't that what I said. They are useful AFTER an incident is discovered.
What you wrote seems contradictory, even from one sentence to the next. But I tried to interpret it charitably.

You wrote:

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Originally Posted by nannyde View Post
The other issue is that cameras are useless unless a dedicated person is watching them. They are only valuable AFTER an incident.
...
Just as casino cameras are useless if there isn't staff to watch them... child care cameras are also. Centers must have someone dedicated to watching them or they are just parent pleasers.
Why would cameras be both useless unless someone is monitoring them in real-time, and only useful later on after something has happened? Are they only useful in real-time, or are they only useful later on?

And, how might they be both useful only after an incident, and be nothing more than parent-pleasers? Are they useful at all, or are they not?

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Even with the staff KNOWING I was watching they worked their way around many things until I figured it out. I had the ability to call directly into the room and speak to them LIVE as it was happening... they still tried to beat the system.
So you're saying that they did indeed change their behavior because they knew they were being watched.

Had they thought they were not being watched (or forgot that they were), they would not have sneaked into closets or rearranged furniture, or otherwise deliberately placed themselves in blind spots.

They were thinking, "I cannot do this here, because I am being watched. But if I could find a way to not be watched, then I can do this."


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People don't just do the right thing because there are cameras.
I didn't say they would. I said their behavior tends to change when they know they are being observed. If they don't know about the camera, then they believe they are not being observed, and their behavior will not change. If they know about the camera but believe no one will ever look at the footage, then they believe they aren't being observed, and their behavior will not change.

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The ones who were corrected and didn't like the intrusion of being on camera and watched LEFT to go to a center where they just had cameras but no one watching or no cameras at all.
And the ones who were corrected and didn't leave? Either you fired them, or you allowed them to continue doing prohibited things.... or they changed their behavior because they knew they were being watched.

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All of these workers knew they were in rooms with cameras.

...and they know how to work around them or they know they have a low likelihood of the video ever being watched.
If they think that they will not appear on the video or that the video will not be watched, then they think they are not being observed, and so they will not change their behavior. They have to think they are being observed. It's not about the camera. It's about the observation... which is something for which a camera may be useful.

Lastly, those links you provided all underscore the value of cameras in a daycare. It sickens me to watch them, but I am at least glad there was clear evidence available showing what exactly happened to those children. Young children are typically unable to clearly explain what happened to them, if they are able to explain anything at all. At least those kids had those videos to speak for them.
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Old 09-06-2016, 01:24 PM
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Default I will be back

Thank you all for your comments, but I am going to take a break until I have more to say about my program. I get that most of you will be against it, that is okay, it is not meant for everybody. I am sure you all run great daycares, but everything can always be made better, safer and that goes for provider as well as the child and their families.

Ultimately the market will tell me if it was a good or bad idea, but based on the families that come to my daycare, it has been nothing but a complete success for me. I hope that once we do actively start to promote the business, you can all look at it with an open mind. Until then, I get how much you are all opposed to the idea, so no need to keep harping on it.


Thank you all again for your feedback, I got exactly what I wanted from this conversation.

Have a great day.
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  #50  
Old 09-06-2016, 04:22 PM
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Not to be unkind, but I do not have an interest in your company or product. I don't know what you mean by "get it." I get the value of surveillance systems and I get the value of making a buck. Other than that, I am not sure what you mean. Best of luck to you though.



What you wrote seems contradictory, even from one sentence to the next. But I tried to interpret it charitably.

You wrote:



Why would cameras be both useless unless someone is monitoring them in real-time, and only useful later on after something has happened? Are they only useful in real-time, or are they only useful later on?

And, how might they be both useful only after an incident, and be nothing more than parent-pleasers? Are they useful at all, or are they not?



So you're saying that they did indeed change their behavior because they knew they were being watched.

Had they thought they were not being watched (or forgot that they were), they would not have sneaked into closets or rearranged furniture, or otherwise deliberately placed themselves in blind spots.

They were thinking, "I cannot do this here, because I am being watched. But if I could find a way to not be watched, then I can do this."


I didn't say they would. I said their behavior tends to change when they know they are being observed. If they don't know about the camera, then they believe they are not being observed, and their behavior will not change. If they know about the camera but believe no one will ever look at the footage, then they believe they aren't being observed, and their behavior will not change.



And the ones who were corrected and didn't leave? Either you fired them, or you allowed them to continue doing prohibited things.... or they changed their behavior because they knew they were being watched.



If they think that they will not appear on the video or that the video will not be watched, then they think they are not being observed, and so they will not change their behavior. They have to think they are being observed. It's not about the camera. It's about the observation... which is something for which a camera may be useful.

Lastly, those links you provided all underscore the value of cameras in a daycare. It sickens me to watch them, but I am at least glad there was clear evidence available showing what exactly happened to those children. Young children are typically unable to clearly explain what happened to them, if they are able to explain anything at all. At least those kids had those videos to speak for them.
I just put in a ten hour day so this may be a bit tangential but here goes...

What I meant to say... and you are absolutely right... is that cameras don't deter BAD behavior. I guess I assumed it was bad behavior that the parents were concerned about when hiring a child care with cameras.

So having cameras on the employees isn't going to make a difference unless they know they are actually being watched, the observer understands what they are seeing, and the behavior is corrected. The ones who don't want to be corrected move on.

It really is the same concept as casino cameras. Having cameras doesn't deter ALL of the bad behavior but it does correct some of it by both employees and patrons. The big difference is that casino cameras are watched by trained camera watchers who UNDERSTAND the business of gambling.

All of the links above are about center cameras where the employees knew they were on camera. In order to commit these acts of aggression or negligence they HAD to have had many many times when they got away with it while being on camera before it was actually caught.

People escalate their behavior when they are getting by with it at the lower level. They get trickier to beat the system. They are only comfortable with the serious behavior you see in the videos after having gotten away with the smaller then escalating behaviors.

I'm prolly one of the few people in the US who has been hired to watch center cameras. I can tell you that just having a video feed made it extremely difficult to tell what was going on and extremely easy for the staff to beat the system. I'm very experienced in child care and I eventually got really good at it but I had to teach myself what I was seeing and do A TON of intervention to get around their get arounds.

Cameras are pretty good for after the fact BUT the problem is the amount of staff time it takes to go through camera footage to disprove or prove an incident. It is EXTREMELY expensive in staff time.

We had a kid go home and tell them a "teacher" had pulled them by the arm that day. We had to go back through every day the teacher was in the room with the kid WITH the parents to show them that the teacher didn't pull the kids arm and actually had next to nothing to do with the kid. Then we went through the footage from the room to see if any OTHER adult did it. We validated that the child nor the accused were off of camera at the same time in the blind spots or adjoining storage rooms. It took a ton of time to disprove something an older child accused an adult of.

We had to watch the footage of the hallway, playground, gym, and room to prove that the child hadn't been mishandled in any way. We proved it to the parents but it cost more than the tuition they paid for many weeks.

After the fact gets really expensive to the point where we had to start charging a fee for the service. If the parent accusation was correct the fee was not due. If the parents accusation was not correct, they paid the staff time to review. It was the only way we could afford to prove or disprove (more expensive) that xyz did or didn't happen.

I think we may be thinking the same thing ... possibly. Having cameras does change behavior but it can be for good or evil.

Anywho... back to the original concept of home child care cameras and the business idea. I think it's a very shaky proposition. There are so few cases of child abuse and neglect in home daycare comparatively. Having a middle man in between you, the cameras, and the parents is a BAD plan IMHO. Cameras are cheap and if someone really wants to offer that as a service they can do what the op did and just do it themselves especially if there is a buck to be made once the equipment is paid off.

There are so many problems with it in a home setting, I just can't see it being something an average provider would allow. I wouldn't allow my own kid on a video feed in my home. I wouldn't allow my daycare parents to watch the other kids. I wouldn't trust parents that they wouldn't give the ability to watch the video to people they trust. I wouldn't trust that they wouldn't use captured video and post it on social media. The good... the bad... the usual... all of it.

Without sound it is extremely difficult to tell what is actually going on in a daycare. I wouldn't trust a newbie parent to have the skill set to be able to navigate what they are seeing with the exception of things like the amount of time a kid was in a bouncer, their kid playing with this or that, times that this or that was done etc. They may be able to count kids.

They wouldn't be able to tell if I was kind or mean. They wouldn't be able to tell if I was rough or gentle. They wouldn't know what went on at the changing diaper sites or bathrooms. For example, potty training is a VERY high time of abuse to children by parents and providers alike. That wouldn't be on camera for obvious reasons.

When I camera watched we always knew what parents were watching. They sent their kid in horizontal striped clothes or neon clothes that reflected on the camera. The infant parents would send them in the same outfit every day. That way they could pick their kid out of the others in the room.

We did some analysis of viewing and found that most parents watched quite a bit the first two weeks and then dropped to rarely ever watching it. There were always ones who had it on all the time (work from home types) and they were usually the ones calling in when Snowflake looked like she had been crying but couldn't really tell.

This was back in the early 2010 time so technology is way better and cheaper now. I think it would be a very different ball game now just six years later. I honestly can't IMAGINE having to deal with parents who are watching single fixed cameras without audio now. ugh... it would be awful.

Now should sound ever be included... (and I never suggested sound absent video... that would be worse) then parents could pretty easily tell what was going on. Until the legalities of that gets worked out state by state and the punishments for abuse of that by parents gets established... it's just not that great of a tool of deterrence of bad behavior. It IS better than nothing for the parents but a big pain in the rear for the owners of the centers.

Home day care... well I don't see that as ever being a well accepted service by the owners. If the state steps in and requires it then it may happen but until home providers are forced to do it... I don't see it being too common. The ability to offer it has been around for maybe eight or so years and I haven't heard too much about home providers offering it for viewing for the parents. Many have it for themselves now because it's so cheap but I would GUESS maybe five percent or so offer it to the parents to view. That's just a guess.
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  #51  
Old 09-07-2016, 10:21 AM
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What I meant to say... and you are absolutely right... is that cameras don't deter BAD behavior.
Good or bad, as it relates to this issue, is basically dependent on one's point of view. What matters is the observee's awareness of the observer's expectations. The person being watched may not believe their actions to be bad, but that doesn't mean they don't recognize that those actions are not wanted by the person observing them.

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All of the links above are about center cameras where the employees knew they were on camera. In order to commit these acts of aggression or negligence they HAD to have had many many times when they got away with it while being on camera before it was actually caught.
Right. As I stated earlier, it's not about the camera, it's about the knowledge that they are being observed by someone else.

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...the problem is the amount of staff time it takes to go through camera footage to disprove or prove an incident. It is EXTREMELY expensive in staff time.
This problem should roughly scale itself. A smaller daycare is going to have fewer children, lowering the probability of a complaint. They'll also have fewer cameras, lowering the amount of footage that must be reviewed.

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Originally Posted by nannyde View Post
We did some analysis of viewing and found that most parents watched quite a bit the first two weeks and then dropped to rarely ever watching it.
My guess would be that they wanted a little bit more assurance that they had selected a good daycare, or reassurance that putting their kid in daycare was the right thing to do.
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  #52  
Old 09-07-2016, 06:41 PM
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Default I have them...

I have several cameras in my daycare and they all record. I have three inside the house and three outside. I do not allow the parents access to the cameras on a daily basis, but I do record all activities to cover myself on a business aspect as well as a provider.

While I don't think it's necessary, I had a background in law, and it's just that part of me why I do it. I do feel, however, that it gives the parents a little reassurance knowing that I'm confident enough in what I do and that I'm not afraid of what I do to record the activities and provide them, if requested, to the parents. I recently had a child who I had to terminate from my daycare because of his continued violence toward my kids and the other child here. While I would tell the child's parents of his actions, my concerns, and my efforts at helping this child; the stories were always turned around by the child itself making it sound like it wasn't the child's fault. Upon termination, the parents indicated to me that their child was taken advantage of and my decision for termination was, how would you say, without merit. I then pulled the camera information out and the parents were literally left speechless.

Please don't get me wrong, that's not at all my intent with the cameras, but I think it not only helped me, but hopefully helped the parents understand that "real" issue or problem at hand.

Please note though...cameras are expensive, and the cost for recording can be equally expensive.!.
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Do any of you in home care providers have cameras? Pros and cons of having cameras for parents to view children during care?

I currently do not have cameras never really considered it and I dont feel a need for them, but a parent brought it up and it made me wonder how home providers feel about cameras and how many actually have them.
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  #53  
Old 09-07-2016, 08:27 PM
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I have several cameras in my daycare and they all record. I have three inside the house and three outside. I do not allow the parents access to the cameras on a daily basis, but I do record all activities to cover myself on a business aspect as well as a provider.

While I don't think it's necessary, I had a background in law, and it's just that part of me why I do it. I do feel, however, that it gives the parents a little reassurance knowing that I'm confident enough in what I do and that I'm not afraid of what I do to record the activities and provide them, if requested, to the parents. I recently had a child who I had to terminate from my daycare because of his continued violence toward my kids and the other child here. While I would tell the child's parents of his actions, my concerns, and my efforts at helping this child; the stories were always turned around by the child itself making it sound like it wasn't the child's fault. Upon termination, the parents indicated to me that their child was taken advantage of and my decision for termination was, how would you say, without merit. I then pulled the camera information out and the parents were literally left speechless.

Please don't get me wrong, that's not at all my intent with the cameras, but I think it not only helped me, but hopefully helped the parents understand that "real" issue or problem at hand.

Please note though...cameras are expensive, and the cost for recording can be equally expensive.!.
I have pretty much the same set up.
I have more than 3 inside and more than 3 outside.
I have them basically for the same reason.

I stop at parent access though.

I would NEVER allow parents access to video.

I don't believe they have a right to another child's privacy.
I don't feel parents are qualified to interpret a snippet of footage and acurately understand.

Licensing and/or the law can view footage any time my practices or actions threaten a child's, a familiy's or my own safety.
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  #54  
Old 09-15-2016, 12:27 PM
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Again, you don't speak for everybody. We will be reaching out to the parents as they are the people that write you the check. Don't forget there is power in their checkbook.
And they are most welcome to go to another daycare. I had one parent suggest putting in a camera that she can see her child via an app. My answer to her was "No!" She still decided to sign a contract with me and leave her child in my care in fact she was on a list for a Government daycare with cameras and she decided to stay with me. It's either the parents feel comfortable or trust you or they don't. If they don't its just not a good fit and its best to part ways.
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Old 09-16-2016, 01:46 PM
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And they are most welcome to go to another daycare. I had one parent suggest putting in a camera that she can see her child via an app. My answer to her was "No!" She still decided to sign a contract with me and leave her child in my care in fact she was on a list for a Government daycare with cameras and she decided to stay with me. It's either the parents feel comfortable or trust you or they don't. If they don't its just not a good fit and its best to part ways.
This really sums it up. If a parent does not have trust in the provider, they need to go elsewhere. This business is BASED on trust. That's why parents must shop around. Why they should ask plenty of questions and get references BEFORE they sign up. Why would anyone leave their child in a place they aren't sure about??????
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Old 09-17-2016, 07:26 AM
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Can't these cameras be hacked pretty easily? I would think being a daycare that advertises access via a camera link would make someone a particular target for some pretty shady types. I just don't think I'd want the liability, not to mention the uncertainty of who might be watching at any time.
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Old 09-19-2016, 09:01 AM
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Can't these cameras be hacked pretty easily? I would think being a daycare that advertises access via a camera link would make someone a particular target for some pretty shady types. I just don't think I'd want the liability, not to mention the uncertainty of who might be watching at any time.
Exactly!
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Old 09-19-2016, 03:55 PM
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Why would anyone leave their child in a place they aren't sure about??????
Because trust isn't simply black and white, yes or no.
Because your level trust has absolutely no bearing on whether or not your child will be harmed.
Because thousands of families every year have their trust betrayed, and without some sort of witness there may be no knowledge of the abuse, nor recourse.

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Can't these cameras be hacked pretty easily?
Anything is conceivably hackable. Like your cell phone, your wifi, your computer, your iCloud or Dropbox account, your Fb account, your bank account, Target's credit card terminals, CIA and NSA servers...

How do you define "easily?"
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  #59  
Old 03-23-2017, 04:42 AM
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You can have a small camera set up for pretty cheap.The price has come down. You don’t have to make it one where they can view it on-line. Just have a recorder that records the day with a hard-drive that keeps it for a week or do. It gives them the comfort of just knowing you have a recording if they want to view it. I have a large center for 30 years and we have had cameras for about 10 years. It creates a level of trust for our parents and very few times have they wanted to view the recording. I would never make take it on-line. That does open a can of worms. I tell them it can be hacked and I am not going to take that step. They trust us because the recording is there if they want to see how their child got that bump. Works for us!
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Old 03-23-2017, 05:15 AM
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You can have a small camera set up for pretty cheap.The price has come down. You don’t have to make it one where they can view it on-line. Just have a recorder that records the day with a hard-drive that keeps it for a week or do. It gives them the comfort of just knowing you have a recording if they want to view it. I have a large center for 30 years and we have had cameras for about 10 years. It creates a level of trust for our parents and very few times have they wanted to view the recording. I would never make take it on-line. That does open a can of worms. I tell them it can be hacked and I am not going to take that step. They trust us because the recording is there if they want to see how their child got that bump. Works for us!
"if they want to view it"

NOPE! No way would I allow a parent to view camera footage unless it was of their child alone with no other children, staff or parents visible or audible in the recording......Parents have NO RIGHT to listen to, over hear or view another person's child.

"they trust us because the recording is there"

No they don't. They are showing you they don't trust you because they NEED the cameras/recording.

If they truly trusted you, they wouldn't need the camera footage to back up what you say/do.
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Old 03-23-2017, 06:43 AM
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If they truly trusted you, they wouldn't need the camera footage to back up what you say/do.
True. I did several years of babysitting in the past and parents never worried about recording, that I know of anyway. They knew the kids liked me and that was what mattered to them.
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Old 03-23-2017, 08:33 AM
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I've done this for almost 18 years. The times I wished I had a camera were during licensing visits and interviews with prospective clients.
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Old 03-23-2017, 08:36 AM
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My sister's smart car was hacked, just sayin
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Old 02-12-2018, 11:58 AM
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Default To all the providers

I just wanted to chime in here because of all the rediculois nieve people saying to trust your providers. Sure maybe if they are a family member but I will never trust someone that I don’t know. And I don’t know about you but you are not getting to know that provider by just going over to there at home daycare and talking to them. There are SOOOOOO many incidents where the parent thought the provider or caregiver was trustworthy and they put on such a great smile and are so great with the kids when they are there for drop off and pick up, and you absolutely do not know FOR SURE what that person could be doing with your child in the day. People put on a show for the parents, point blank I have seen it many times where they thought they could trust them and did and they shouldn’t have.And no it’s no always abuse happening but things you just wouldn’t want your child doing, like for example bieng left to cry in a room for a long period of time. I cringe every time I think about that happening to my daughter. I want her to have love and attention. I had worked in many daycare centers and have had my own in home daycare and now work at an in Home Daycare and I will always believe that you just cannot trust someone with your child that you wouldn’t consider a great friend or family member. And someone even the closest people to you end up decorating you and doing the wrong thing!
Point is stop assuming that you have the right for some random parent to trust you with their child. Trust me they want to trust you! But I’m this day and age you just can’t, in other words you should not.
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Old 02-12-2018, 02:07 PM
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I just wanted to chime in here because of all the rediculois nieve people saying to trust your providers. Sure maybe if they are a family member but I will never trust someone that I don’t know. And I don’t know about you but you are not getting to know that provider by just going over to there at home daycare and talking to them. There are SOOOOOO many incidents where the parent thought the provider or caregiver was trustworthy and they put on such a great smile and are so great with the kids when they are there for drop off and pick up, and you absolutely do not know FOR SURE what that person could be doing with your child in the day. People put on a show for the parents, point blank I have seen it many times where they thought they could trust them and did and they shouldn’t have.And no it’s no always abuse happening but things you just wouldn’t want your child doing, like for example bieng left to cry in a room for a long period of time. I cringe every time I think about that happening to my daughter. I want her to have love and attention. I had worked in many daycare centers and have had my own in home daycare and now work at an in Home Daycare and I will always believe that you just cannot trust someone with your child that you wouldn’t consider a great friend or family member. And someone even the closest people to you end up decorating you and doing the wrong thing!
Point is stop assuming that you have the right for some random parent to trust you with their child. Trust me they want to trust you! But I’m this day and age you just can’t, in other words you should not.
It sounds like you have figured out how to address your concerns/fears and are caring for your own child!

Good for you! Everyone needs to do what they need to do for their own comfort level in regards to raising their child.

I also know that just because you have had a bad experience or maybe seen some things that were less than your expectations it doesn't mean all daycare providers are putting on a show for parents.

For every bad dishonest provider in business, there are a 100 trustworthy honest providers that really do this job for the love of the kids they care for.

Please don't paint them all with the same brush.
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  #66  
Old 02-12-2018, 02:58 PM
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I just wanted to chime in here because of all the rediculois nieve people saying to trust your providers. Sure maybe if they are a family member but I will never trust someone that I don’t know. And I don’t know about you but you are not getting to know that provider by just going over to there at home daycare and talking to them. There are SOOOOOO many incidents where the parent thought the provider or caregiver was trustworthy and they put on such a great smile and are so great with the kids when they are there for drop off and pick up, and you absolutely do not know FOR SURE what that person could be doing with your child in the day. People put on a show for the parents, point blank I have seen it many times where they thought they could trust them and did and they shouldn’t have.And no it’s no always abuse happening but things you just wouldn’t want your child doing, like for example bieng left to cry in a room for a long period of time. I cringe every time I think about that happening to my daughter. I want her to have love and attention. I had worked in many daycare centers and have had my own in home daycare and now work at an in Home Daycare and I will always believe that you just cannot trust someone with your child that you wouldn’t consider a great friend or family member. And someone even the closest people to you end up decorating you and doing the wrong thing!
Point is stop assuming that you have the right for some random parent to trust you with their child. Trust me they want to trust you! But I’m this day and age you just can’t, in other words you should not.
The biggest risk to your child's life is YOU. The people you believe are safer to be with your child are way more dangerous than child care providers.



Did you read this thread? Look at Post 21


"Quote:

Originally Posted by*Unregistered*

But is does and frankly, if you read the papers or*do the research, you will find appalling crimes committed on a daily basis because nobody is watch the people watching our children."

Would you do us the favor and actually DO the research?

Start here:*

Perpetrator Relationship
Victim data were analyzed by relationship of (duplicate count) victims to their perpetrators. Four-fifths (81.2%) of victims were maltreated by a parent either acting alone or with someone else. Nearly two-fifths (36.8%) of victims were maltreated by their mother acting alone. One-fifth (19.0%) of victims were maltreated by their father acting alone. One-fifth (18.9%) of victims were maltreated by both parents. Thirteen percent (12.8%) of victims were maltreated by a perpetrator who was not a parent of the child. (See exhibit 3–H and related notes.)

http://www.acf.hhs.gov/sites/default...11.pdf#page=80


Read the entire thing if you are*TRULY*concerned about the children. Pay special attention to the data regarding who actually injures and kills children. You will see study after study that child care providers are a mere blip on the radar.*


Exhibit 3–H Victims by Perpetrator Relationship, 2011 (duplicate count)
Perpetrator Relationship
Relationship Number PERCENTAGE


Mother (number) 253,107 PERCENTAGE 36.8

Father (number) 130,670 PERCENTAGE 19.0

Mother and Father(number) 129,793 PERCENTAGE 18.9

Mother and Other (number) 38,927 PERCENTAGE 5.7

Partner of Parent (Male) (number)16,734 PERCENTAGE 2.4

Relative (Male) (number) 19,905 PERCENTAGE 2.8


Child Daycare Provider(number) 2,474 PERCENTAGE 0.4

You will find appalling crimes committed on a daily basis because nobody is watching the parents.*

Last edited by nannyde; 02-13-2018 at 04:46 AM.
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Old 02-12-2018, 03:30 PM
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Nannyde has provided the reality check people need here. Most abuse happens by a family member. The closer they are the more likely they are to abuse. Providers account for 0.04% of abuse. So saying you trust your family member shows how naive YOU are.

I have worked in centres where I was appalled at how the staff treated the kids. Not abuse by any stretch but making snide sarcastic comments or being generally condescending. None of that would be caught on tape! Having said that I know a LOT MORE parents who treat their kids like garbage. Basically if you want your child to have the best life, stay home and raise them otherwise you have no choice but to blindly trust someone else with your child. I quit my high paying job and stayed home for this very reason. I take care of other peoples kids because I want to provide quality care for kids and families. What I see more often than not though are parents wanting to pay next to nothing for a half assed provider. They see I run a quality program, their kids love me and they try and treat me like crap by pushing my policies. These parents don’t care about abuse, they care about their money. The parents that do appreciate quality are all too eager to pay whatever I charge. Saying all parents even care is beyond naive.

Oh and please don’t say some parents don’t have the choice. There is always a choice it just might be a hard one.
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Old 02-13-2018, 08:03 AM
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Do any of you in home care providers have cameras? Pros and cons of having cameras for parents to view children during care?

I currently do not have cameras never really considered it and I dont feel a need for them, but a parent brought it up and it made me wonder how home providers feel about cameras and how many actually have them.
NO... I do littles only, and it's my private home; other parents don't need access to me changing diapers, private conversations etc either. Never happening... now outside, yes I have the Ring system for security
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Old 02-14-2018, 05:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
Other threads about cameras.
http://www.daycare.com/forum/tags.php?tag=camera

I have cameras in my home. I have 6 inside and 6 outside.

I would NEVER allow a parent to view them. It would be a direct violation of privacy for other children/families.

I have them for liability reasons and to protect myself.



This is a good example of why I would never allow parents to view or have access to video feeds.
Do these cameras record every day? And if so how do you store the video and how long can you keep the stored video?
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Old 02-14-2018, 06:19 AM
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I have a Night Owl system

My cameras have record options so I can set them to continuously record, record only during certain hours/days or record only when motion or activity within the camera view occurs.

The system records directly to a DVR that has storage capabilities but how much or length of time that is savable depends on how many cameras I have recording and resolution/clarity settings etc.

As for storage, the packaging says "User video is never transmitted to our server nor any third party server, EVER. Once setup is complete, your cameras and smartphone operate as peer-to-peer devices.

Night Owl HD App also allows you to easily play back video from multiple cameras in one screen on your smart device. Plus, you have the ability to play back up to 1 year of video footage without ever having to touch the DVR again. Our intuitive app can even store the video or picture directly onto your smart device."
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Old 02-14-2018, 06:47 AM
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You're not. I do rather enjoy reading some of the responses though. Why don't we have a mic drop emoji?
giphy.gif
No words except this...
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Old 02-14-2018, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
I have a Night Owl system

My cameras have record options so I can set them to continuously record, record only during certain hours/days or record only when motion or activity within the camera view occurs.

The system records directly to a DVR that has storage capabilities but how much or length of time that is savable depends on how many cameras I have recording and resolution/clarity settings etc.

As for storage, the packaging says "User video is never transmitted to our server nor any third party server, EVER. Once setup is complete, your cameras and smartphone operate as peer-to-peer devices.

Night Owl HD App also allows you to easily play back video from multiple cameras in one screen on your smart device. Plus, you have the ability to play back up to 1 year of video footage without ever having to touch the DVR again. Our intuitive app can even store the video or picture directly onto your smart device."
I'd want my inside cameras only on during business hours, but my outside cameras on all of the time. Probably 4 inside and 4 outside.

I'm hoping for about 30 days of storage on the DVR.

Do you think that's possible with that set up?
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Old 02-14-2018, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by hwichlaz View Post
I'd want my inside cameras only on during business hours, but my outside cameras on all of the time. Probably 4 inside and 4 outside.

I'm hoping for about 30 days of storage on the DVR.

Do you think that's possible with that set up?
Yes, you can set each camera to record when YOU want it to. You also get to choose where and when and what footage is stored/saved. Depending on which system you have, you can add additional cameras. I started with 4 and now have 8.
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Old 02-14-2018, 08:16 AM
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My only concern is incidental nudity. I can position cameras in a way that my body blocks diaper changes....but what about that kid that runs out of the bathroom with his pants down past his knees asking for help?
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Old 02-14-2018, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by hwichlaz View Post
My only concern is incidental nudity. I can position cameras in a way that my body blocks diaper changes....but what about that kid that runs out of the bathroom with his pants down past his knees asking for help?
You are the only one that sees the footage.
Nothing is uploaded to any online servers or places you don't want footage to go. So other than you (and those that are actually present in the moment) no one will see little Jerry sprinting from the bathroom in all his naked glory!
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Old 02-14-2018, 08:27 AM
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I'm wondering if my state is going to "require" camera's soon. There is a new campaign for safety in childcare's in our state which yes is great but at the same time not all childcare's are unsafe. I haven't seen it but I guess there is a new commercial from our governor about all the injuries, deaths and unsafe conditions in-home childcare's for our state.

It is coming in on the heels of QRIS so I'm sure there will be new expectations for in-home childcare's in our state.
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Old 02-14-2018, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Country Kids View Post
I'm wondering if my state is going to "require" camera's soon. There is a new campaign for safety in childcare's in our state which yes is great but at the same time not all childcare's are unsafe. I haven't seen it but I guess there is a new commercial from our governor about all the injuries, deaths and unsafe conditions in-home childcare's for our state.

It is coming in on the heels of QRIS so I'm sure there will be new expectations for in-home childcare's in our state.
I can see that "fight" being bigger than unionization of in home family child care providers.

Imagine the uproar being forced to have cameras in your home would ignite? The breach of privacy for family etc... Yikes... Of course, if it's tied to QRIS the state would require access so they can "check up" on providers....because yeah...that's a guarantee that the children will be safe. Ugh! I surely hope this is just in "discussion" phase for you. That "might" be a deal breaker for many.
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Old 02-14-2018, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
I can see that "fight" being bigger than unionization of in home family child care providers.

Imagine the uproar being forced to have cameras in your home would ignite? The breach of privacy for family etc... Yikes... Of course, if it's tied to QRIS the state would require access so they can "check up" on providers....because yeah...that's a guarantee that the children will be safe. Ugh! I surely hope this is just in "discussion" phase for you. That "might" be a deal breaker for many.
I have read and heard that with the QRIS, Preschool Promise and Free Preschools that this is just another push to get home daycare gone.

There is a new website going in so providers that have complaints, you will now be able to see what the licensor wrote in response to the complaint. It will be in full detail I guess.

QRIS is separate from our state here so I don't see the state having access to the cameras. I can see them though if a complaint is filed wanting to then see the footage.

There needs to be crackdown on illegal childcare's also! I know at one time I heard our state was going to have it if a childcare is caught be illegal it would be a felony. Not sure if that is still in the works or what though.
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Old 02-14-2018, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Country Kids View Post
I have read and heard that with the QRIS, Preschool Promise and Free Preschools that this is just another push to get home daycare gone.

There is a new website going in so providers that have complaints, you will now be able to see what the licensor wrote in response to the complaint. It will be in full detail I guess.

QRIS is separate from our state here so I don't see the state having access to the cameras. I can see them though if a complaint is filed wanting to then see the footage.

There needs to be crackdown on illegal childcare's also! I know at one time I heard our state was going to have it if a childcare is caught be illegal it would be a felony. Not sure if that is still in the works or what though.
Here it is in our regulations, if we have online parent access to cameras, we have to give the info to licensing.

Ya....NOPE.

"Little Johnny cried for 2 minutes until someone wiped his nose for him, despite him being perfectly capable of doing it himself and both provider and assistant busy with the more pressing needs of other children.'
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Old 02-14-2018, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Country Kids View Post
I have read and heard that with the QRIS, Preschool Promise and Free Preschools that this is just another push to get home daycare gone.

There is a new website going in so providers that have complaints, you will now be able to see what the licensor wrote in response to the complaint. It will be in full detail I guess.

QRIS is separate from our state here so I don't see the state having access to the cameras. I can see them though if a complaint is filed wanting to then see the footage.

There needs to be crackdown on illegal childcare's also! I know at one time I heard our state was going to have it if a childcare is caught be illegal it would be a felony. Not sure if that is still in the works or what though.
In California, all complaint reports and conclusions, and all inspection notes are open to the public online. They have been for about 5 years.
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Old 02-14-2018, 12:24 PM
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In California, all complaint reports and conclusions, and all inspection notes are open to the public online. They have been for about 5 years.
We have had complaints on line for like 8+ years. They are now including the inspection reports for the public.
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Old 03-29-2020, 02:02 PM
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Default no it is not, if you are a licensed ECE then you would know this...

all camera access has to be given to state inspectors and parents if cameras are in the home during hours of operation whether public or in-home. You can restrict the access of the cameras to parents and state employees before or after your hours of operations. By having cameras as long as parents are informed of their presence it by no means is a violation or breach to any other child's privacy or your own IF they're set up in common areas and not private areas like washrooms, bathrooms, changing areas, and areas that are not used or accessible during business hours. Cameras cannot be used to monitor children while in other areas of the home or center, and ratio must always be kept. If you do not allow parents to view them that is one thing, but you have to inform them of the presence of camera security systems or it can call for a lawsuit due to the breach of their child's privacy. You also absolutely have to give access to state inspectors/ attendees. Or we can revoke your license and/or fine you. Any employees must be aware / contracts must state the presence as well. Just like family contracts. you also have to have signs/ notice of personal/ private or family accessible cameras being in use and present in the home/ center.

happy reading!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
Other threads about cameras.
http://www.daycare.com/forum/tags.php?tag=camera

I have cameras in my home. I have 6 inside and 6 outside.

I would NEVER allow a parent to view them. It would be a direct violation of privacy for other children/families.

I have them for liability reasons and to protect myself.



This is a good example of why I would never allow parents to view or have access to video feeds.
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  #83  
Old 03-29-2020, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
all camera access has to be given to state inspectors and parents if cameras are in the home during hours of operation whether public or in-home. You can restrict the access of the cameras to parents and state employees before or after your hours of operations. By having cameras as long as parents are informed of their presence it by no means is a violation or breach to any other child's privacy or your own IF they're set up in common areas and not private areas like washrooms, bathrooms, changing areas, and areas that are not used or accessible during business hours. Cameras cannot be used to monitor children while in other areas of the home or center, and ratio must always be kept. If you do not allow parents to view them that is one thing, but you have to inform them of the presence of camera security systems or it can call for a lawsuit due to the breach of their child's privacy. You also absolutely have to give access to state inspectors/ attendees. Or we can revoke your license and/or fine you. Any employees must be aware / contracts must state the presence as well. Just like family contracts. you also have to have signs/ notice of personal/ private or family accessible cameras being in use and present in the home/ center.

happy reading!
Where did I say I don't notify parents of the presence of cameras?

Where did I say or indicate that I wouldn’t allow law enforcement or licensing to view them?

Please don’t make assumptions as to how I manage cameras in my facility.
I am well versed in the laws that apply to my practices.
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Old 03-30-2020, 05:05 AM
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Or we can revoke your license and/or fine you.
Who is “we”?
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Old 03-30-2020, 04:54 PM
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I feel like cameras are a good thing but not ones that can be viewed by the parents at will. I worked at a center with them, only viewable in the office. I was in the toddler room with 8 kids. 3 were on the loft climber. Two were brother and sister. The brother shoved the sister by the edge of the loft. I was standing right there. I saw it happen, reached out to grab the falling child and she went over my arms. Were talking major tooth damage, lots of blood, stiches in the lip. Parent flipped out, like accuing me of pushing her child ect. Parent wanted to sue then she was shown the video. The video showed I was innocent and it truly was a accident. Without the video there would have been a lawsuit and I would likely have been fired.
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Old 04-01-2020, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockgirl View Post
Who is “we”?
Agree- who is "we"?

Unregistered:
"Cameras cannot be used to monitor children while in other areas of the home or center"
Yes, they can. It's called a baby monitor and approved here as long as in-person checks are regularly performed.

"You also absolutely have to give access to state inspectors/ attendees. Or we can revoke your license and/or fine you."
Show me that legislation. This is not in any of my state's licensing verbiage that I've seen.
The only thing my licensing department wants from me is for me to ACKNOWLEDGE to my clients that I have their permission to take their child's pictures/images while they are here (this is to protect ME). The licensing department touches my RING doorbell to notify me every time they come, they see my iPad mounted on the wall of my playroom which shows camera footage of my property... they have never said a word to me or required me to sign off on anything stating what you are referring to. And believe me, I'd be all over my rights with that. I love the law and am also well versed in what freedoms I have.
Now, law enforcement can seize video if they have a warrant or a legitimate reason to believe a crime has been committed. Last time I checked, a licensor was not given the authority to act as police.

"Any employees must be aware / contracts must state the presence as well."
This is not neccesarily true either. While yes, there is a "reasonable expectation of privacy" in the workplace, it is dependent on the job, the environment and if cameras are in plain view. Even if hidden cameras are used, many employers can deem them necessary to prove illegal activity in the workplace.

Most states are a "one-party consent" in regards to video surveillance.

**Not to say that ethically, any of us wouldn't want to help with a crime if we could OR clear our name if accused of a crime and we could provide proof otherwise.
Video can help us in proving the "burden of proof" in a court of law, therefore cancel out any/all fines imposed by the commissioner.
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Old 04-02-2020, 08:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
As a home provider I would never, ever place cameras in my home. I wouldn't want any risk of them being on after hours or anything funky. It feels really invasive of my home and my own family.

But as a parent, I would absolutely never, ever send my child to a daycare without cameras. It's my personal preference and one of reasons I decided to stay home. I just couldn't stomach the thought of being completely out if touch with my children.

So I understand the parent's desire but as a home provider I'd suggest they go to a center of the cameras are s deal breaker
As a parent I would never send my kid to a daycare WITH cameras that other parents can access. I don't want random people gawking at my kids. Too many weirdos out there and I'd have no control over who gets to "monitor" my kid. Nope.
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Old 04-15-2020, 02:41 PM
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Old post but my experience with cameras, as a Director:

We used it to monitor what happened in a situation, or sometimes to ensure employees followed protocol. I knew if they lied when they said they washed hands after changing a kid's diaper. An employee who was promoted to lead wobbler teacher before my time simply because of a vacancy really pissed me off with her nastyness. She never washed hands, put food on the floor for the kids to eat, sat on her phone, didnt lesson plan, nada. And when I could not do anything about it...yay corporate...I decided I did not want to fight an uphill battle and it went on my list of reasons to leave center childcare -and I did leave.
3 of 4 centers I worked at with cameras.
1st: private daycare, camera only for admin staff to review as needed, not to watch over staff. It was also used if there was a break in-the vans often did.
Once in a blue moon a parent viewed it but we did not make habit of searching video for a parent. Aint nobody got time for that.

2nd: high end childcare, they had cameras that parents could see if the child was in that class-no other classroom. It allowed outside camera access at their child's designated playground time. I (as ass't director) had the camera as did the director|owners, in our offices. However the director grilled it in we had to monitor staff and call them up immediately for violation. I was not comfortable with that so I barely did.
3rd: big non profit corporation, very well known. Only admin had access and we could not let parents see. I was told to keep it up and use it for observations of kids and staff, but I could choose when to immediately call out or not-severity of situation. We never let parents access due to "confidentiality" but really....it is not. They could be in the room just the same.

I see its benefits so there is proof when there is something big. Or it can make employees more on guard-yet I have had staff who didnt care. But, it does create for mistrust, lack of privacy if something messes up, and it opens things for parents to demand the provider to watch playback to find out when 2 year old Johnny got hit at some point in a 10 hour span and not get why that demand is ridiculous.
If you're alone you don't need cameras for yourself just parents so you have to decide is it a) worth cost b) worth privacy issues inn event of malfunction and c) get all parents on board with it and maintain boundaries on what is viewed or not
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Old 04-16-2020, 12:59 PM
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Many of you are aware that we had a situation some years ago, with a father who liked to drop by and spend time. After I became uncomfortable with how often he was here, we found out he was a registered child sex offender and was abusing his own daughter...but also having a "great time" hanging out with her and all her little buddies.

After that, we went to a no parents in the playroom policy. Parents have instant access to THEIR child, but nobody else's.

I can only imagine the "fun" that dad would have had if he could have sat behind his computer desk and watched the kids all day on camera.

I wonder if the parents who think it's awesome to watch their Snowflake on camera have stopped to think that Buster's dad is also having fun watching Snowflake all day?

My kids are all grown....but I would never have left them in a facility that let strangers watch them.
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