Off topic:

My oldest graduated high school this past spring and we were all set up to go to a private college not too far from home and she had signed to play softball. Well a few weeks before graduation she pulled a fast on on us & decided she was going to move into her own apartment & stay at the local tech college. We were upset with her decision & I sought the advice of a professional counselor is regards of how to deal with this (there are a lot of details I am leaving out- she had left our home for a couple of weeks prior to this decision and so forth). I was so upset with her decision we were ready to move her out and stop paying for things like her car insurance.

At the advise of the therapist, as long as she was enrolled in school we are to follow through with our agreement of paying for her car insurance etc and it doesn't matter where she goes. Ok that makes sense. Well she moved out and signed a lease for an apartment in low income housing. The place is awful. There are tons of repairs that need made- several are safety hazards. She had asked me how to get out of her lease. I told her that if she really wanted to go to this private college, I would help her get out of the lease and get her back in winter semester. Well within a week she changed her mind.

She just started fall semester and is taking 4 classes, so she is full time and she is working full time at a fast food place. Her bills need paid. Her room mate has moved out, but she was able to find someone to take over her room mates half. Last night she texts me and says she can't handle full time work and full time school.

I don't know what to do. I am in tears right now. I really feel she will eventually "drop out" and it pisses me off. BUT its her life. So please any advice would be appreciated. I am an emotional wreck right now because I am juggling full time daycare, family, life and I am now taking online college classes. I am going to have a nervous breakdown.

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it stinks but from what you posted it sounds like she is playing you. Maybe she needs to take a year off and go find out what she wants to do. Tell her that, fine, drop out of school but you will not help her financially in any way. I know it sounds mean, but if everytime she didn't have money to pay for something then she is going to come to you for help. She wants you to bail her out.

you need to help her with a budget.

what kind of bills does she have, maybe she needs to look into a place where everything is paid, and cut back on the cell phone bill.

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so she is keeping up with her classes in the tech school?

What does she want .. to move home and go to class. ? That sounds reasonable.sh could then work p/t

What is it she is interested at the tech school can it transfer to a degree will she get an associate degree? It will do no good for her to be in class if she is forced. It is a waste of money. But It does sond she learned minimum wage job and low income houseing is not the life she wants.

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this is not your problem to solve.

she's a big girl now and needs to learn that mommy isnt going to bail her out everytime things get tough.

your agreement was that she remain in school and you would take care of XYZ expenses, which you are willing to continue doing. Perhaps she can drop one class in order to ease the load but I would not be paying anything if she drops out of class entirely.

she needs to figure out on her own what she wants and what it will take to get there. You can support (nothing financial outside of the previous agreement), and encourage but please do not enable.

Its not the end of the world to work full time and go to college. A million people do it. Its not even the middle of Sept and she already wants to quit? Tell her she needs to work it out, welcome to the real world. I would have done almost anything to have the opportunities she has right now! She has it very good, even though things are tough.

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Her bills include: rent, utilities, cell phone. She is supposed to be making a car payment to us and hasn't in a year, but since she is in school we have let it slide. We told her that as long as she is in school we will pay her car insurance.

So she just told me she might drop out and start fresh next year. I am so upset and I told her that if she really wanted this education she would make it work. I suggested her to take out a student loan to pay for her rent and such so she didn't have to work as much. She turned that down.

I cannot force her to go to school, but the therapist said if she isn't enrolled in school the car is yours and it needs to be taken from her bc she is breaking your agreement. I don't want to have to do that, but I don't want to be taken advantage of either.

What I want is for her to get an education. I don't even care where. I don't want to see her living pay check to pay check in an apartment that isn't safe. The bomb squad was out there about a month ago.

My heart is breaking

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Life lessons are hard to learn. If you feel she is wasting this year, think again.... she is learning life lessons the hard way. Sometimes our kids just don't listen to us even though we know better and that's just the way it is. Did you not say to your parents, "Just let me do and if I have to do it the hard then let me"?
All I can tell you is to be there when she messes up and be that safe place she can come to without you saying "I told you so." In the grand scheme of things a 'wasted' year or two is part of growing up.
I wish I could give you some great sage advice, but know that I raised 7 kids who are all productive members of society who have never had an issue with the law, non-smokers, no alcoholics or drug addicts, have jobs and homes and cars and most are college graduates. And, yes, they made some bad decisions regarding schooling, money, and relationships when they were young adults. It usually all turns out in the end.

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Just because you want an education for her....doesnt mean she wants one for herself. no amount of money is going to change that. She has to do this on her own. Please do not start the cycle of supporting an adult child. She CAN move out of this area, with hard work and a plan....she is CHOOSING not to do that. You arent going to solve anything by paying for even more expenses. She is not a victim here, she is making her own choices and you have to let her, even if you dont agree with those choices.

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I agree with this. I know it stinks because you have such high hopes for her, but if she doesn't want to help herself no one is going to change her mind.

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Been there and done that........

let her fly. Guide her, love her, tell her she always has a home to come home too. She will drop out, but she will figure life out real quick.

Make sure she is not caught up in drugs, or the wrong crowd etc....whole different ball game-

My oldest did the same thing, devastated our family. My oldest is doing well and came around after figuring things out for self.

I was not ready for the nest to empty out one. Hugs to you- take on a different approach of supporting her and she will learn so much in this process. It is a big change, didn't line up with your plan, but if you did your job well, she will learn that fast and come around. Don't have a nervous break down,then you will be of no good to anyone. Unload when you can and keep hanging on for the ride- life will get better. I promise.

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This may sound harsh. I PROMISE I don't intend it to sound this way but I saw my inlaws go through the exact same thing with my SIL and BIL and they are both BUMS.

1. YOU already broke the agreement by not having her pay her car payment...in a year. In real life, they would have reposessed her car a LONG time ago. So yes, she has already learned that my parents 'let things slide'. You're already being taken advantage of.

2. Four year private schools are NOT always the best option. Two years of community college+two year bachelors program, just as good a much more expensive four year school.

3. It sounds like she is a typical teenager that thought it would be easy, and wanted to live it up with no rules in college while Mom and Dad foot the bill. She has learned her lesson the hard way. I would draft up different 'contracts' for her.
1. Says she will move home, attend community college FULL TIME and maintain a GPA of ____. Also, she will take over the car payment, car insurance and a room and board fee of _____. She will also follow the following rules of X, Y, Z. Insert consequnce you can live with here ___________________.
2. She will maintain her residence in the apartment, but will find a roommate within ____ number of days. Roommate will sign a lease with property owner as well for half rent and utilities. You will pay her car payment (honestly I wouldn't do this but you already are so...), but she is responsible for her insurance, half of her rent and utilities. She also must be in college FULL TIME and getting a _____ gpa. OR you will no longer be allowing her to use your vehicle.
3. She enroll in private school, and you will pay her way, car payment, insurance, etc.


If she goes part time or drops classes now, she isn't looking so good to continue on and graduate at all, and that is most certainly not what you want for your child.

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Sounds like she has some life choices to make: Sit down with her and lay them out, along with discussing the end result if that choice is made. For example:

1- Quit school this year and work full time to pay the bills in a not-so-great apartment. Outcome-She now has to pay for her car payment AND car insurance. If payments are not made- you take the car away from her. Also once she starts working full time, it's not so easy to get back into "school mode". Even if she does keep her promise of going back to school, she will then graduate that much later. Future employers also ask lots of questions about taking time off from school- it might potentially keep her from getting her dream job.

2- Break the lease, move back home, stay at school full time. You will still pay her car insurance, but she needs to work part time to pay for cell phone and car payment. She can still hopefully save up some money to move out again sometime soon. Outcome- Perhaps she is wanting to be out of your house, but at least she will be able to stay in school (and graduate earlier!); and hopefully save up some money so that she can successfully support herself on her own at a later time.

3- Stay in her apartment, apply for a student loan to help pay bills. Outcome- She will get to stay in school, work part time, and still be able to pay the bills. However, later in life she will have to pay off those student loans.

It's really important to discuss these options with her and let her know you will support her emotionally in whatever option she chooses. She has to do make these decisions on her own, and you can only HOPE it's a good decision. If not, be there for her to pick up the pieces. But I agree with the others- DO NOT start financially helping her (besides paying her car insurance which you agree to). It will start a LONG road of her always wanting you to bail her out financially.

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agree with above and again have been there.......

still am with 2nd child......

she will figure out quick that she wants a better life from where she has chosen to live, as long as you don't bail her out. Helping her is one thing, but let her learn life the hard way. She will come around. She will end up wanting more and then have to find the way to make it happen. She truly is starting to expand her wings and when you hear about empty nest......it is one of the hardest things for a parent. Support her emotionally and make sure she knows that she can always come home(with rules and knowing she is part of a family dynamic)

I feel for you, truly, best and hugs- you will get through this.

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Agree 100% with daycarediva.

I was the oldest of three girls. My parents were super tough on me. I moved out when I was still in high school and they were solid as a rock. Didn't give me an inch. I wanted to be a grown up, I was going to be treated like one.

I hit a few snags and it was tough living on ramen and jello lol. I had horrible apartments and got evicted because of roommates that came and went without paying their share of the rent. I got hounded when my car payment was late and nearly lost my license when I stopped paying my car insurance and got pulled over (couldn't afford it!)

I moved back home once, for two months, and only because the 100+ year old dilapidated dirt floor basement farm house I had moved into at one point had a fuel oil leak and I was in danger of being blown sky high.

Life was hard for several years, but it made me smart, appreciative, and incredibly self sufficient.

*My sisters on the other hand.....*

Lived at home through college. When they attempted to move out my parents paid most of their bills, bought them groceries, gave them gas money....my middle sister hardly kept a (very) part time job all through her entire four years at a private college. She didn't have to. Everything was taken care of for her. When she finished her degree she moved to Japan (in the name of gaining experience related to her degree) and they continued to support her there while she also worked very part time hours. She once whined to me while over there that she had to make her own coffee....I kid you not. When she returned from Japan she declared the four year degree she'd chosen wasn't what she really wanted to do with life. She moved back home, and my parents are now supporting her as she contemplates what she does "actually" want to do with her life. Currently she's back to working part time, this time changing beds and cleaning bathrooms in a nursing home and part time in a group home for schizophrenic men......she's 25.

My youngest sister tried to take my route and move out while she was still nearly in high school. Only difference is they didn't require anything of her that they did of me. They paid her bills too, including her college tuition, groceries, gas, etc. All she had to pay for was her rent. She's been evicted from 3 different apartments in less than 3 years and has had to move back home several times. She's failed more classes than I can count, and why not? She's not paying for them. She got pregnant by a convicted felon and had a baby last year. She's still with him. Although she's got better work ethic than my other sister her life still leaves much to be desired, and she doesn't see that at all. She's completed the equivalent of a year and a half of a four year degree in nearly four years. She'll be 23 in November.



My conclusion?

Stop giving in or you're just asking to end up with boomerang mochers like my parents did.

Lay the hammer down when it comes to your daughter and this stage in her life.

She might not like it now but she'll thank you for it later.

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Ha! after going back and forth with her today about the issue, she just text me and asked if she could come over and do laundry??????? I want to say NO WAY

I need to incorporate some tough love, but how far do you go with it????

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You go as far as it takes for her to "get" it. If she's adult enough to make the decision not to go through with the agreement you made with her and move out into her own apartment, she's adult enough to pay for her rent, her laundry expenses, her tuition, food, car, etc. I know it's hard to hold their feet to the fire (I have an 18 yr old who just graduated high school in the spring and a 21 yr old who graduated from college this spring) but sometimes that's what it takes for them to learn important life lessons.

If you don't want her to come over to do her laundry, tell her, "I'm sorry honey, it's not convenient for me. There should be a laundromat available somewhere - check the phone book. Just remember to bring lots of quarters."

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this was me....My father paid for me to go to the school in the USA many moons ago. He would only pay if I were in school and was to return. Well one thing lead to the next and some 25 years later, I am still here in USA. Of course I am leaving out a lot of drama...lol

So speaking from experience, tuff love will work, but if you do take it too far the end result is what my father and I have now. NOthing.

I would tell her this.

You are free to make your own decisions now that you are an adult. When I see you heading down a bad path or one that could be misleading, I will say something to you. You can choose to respect my words and advice and try it out my way, as I have many many years of experiece and only want to help you. Or you can take it with a grain of salt and do as you wish. But if you make the wrong decisions, I can't continue to help you.

I would say you can help her once with this situation and after you help you then you need to stand back and let her walk on her own.

I was very stubborn and thought I am 18 I know it all, not realizing that I knew nothing and was still a child.

If you do decide to help her. YOu lay down your ground rules and if she breaks them once, no more help....Let her know this up front

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I just got a chance to read this thread and have a few suggestions and comments for you but I am so running out of time today......

I will try to respond more tonight or early in the morning but I have been in your shoes EXACTLY with my oldest and I know EXACTLY how you feel and what you are going through.

I can share my experiences with you and hopefully offer you some insight from someone who was in your shoes about 3 years ago.

Oh and as far as the laundy....I always let my kids do their laundry at home but they had to come with their own soap and fabric softner and do a couple chores while they were home waiting for their wash such as vacuum or dust or whatever needs doing.

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I agree with everything you said. I like "logical consequences" vs "tough love". I think, as a parent, you have to remain as emotionally supportive of your kids as possible but still be willing to step back and allow them to make their mistakes and feel the consequences of their decisions.

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Thanks for all of your suggestions and help

So here are some more facts:

She is 99% going to drop out of college.

I have offered numerous alternatives to ease her load w/ fulltime job/school- she has declined EVERY SINGLE ONE.

She swears she is going to go in fall of 2013. Her track record for sticking to her word is not very good. She keeps quitting in everything (this is heartbreaking too)

Can somebody please define tough love. Where do you draw the line?? I am told I need to let her go but she needs to know she is always welcome here. What the heck does that really mean?? She can mess her life up & I am expected to have open arms and clean up her mess??? I don't understand.

Thanks again. Just being able to vent helps out so much.

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I do think that is what it means....sort of....

YOu can only do so much. YOu can't force her to make YOUR decisions anymore.

you can talk until you are blue in the face and she will continue to do what SHE wants.

YOu have to let life lead her where she wants to go, even if it's what you know is wrong. In due time, she will find out that it was not the right decision for her, or the right whatever.............

when she fails, you open your heart and comfort her.....just like you did when she was a little girl....BUT THEN...........

you tell her, I am very sorry, I cant help you completely. I can not fix the mistakes you made....its like that saying you made your bed now lie in it......... Le her suffer her bad mistakes.....

But let her know that she always has a home to come home to.....OF COURSE there are stipulations of coming back home....

like....if you are going to live at my home, you need to be enrolled in college full time. OR you need to be working full time and paying rent. then put a time limit on how long she can live with you. Maybe long enough to get her on her feet................

There are those that will listen by advice and those that will learn by making their own mistakes...........It sounds like your daughter is the second one......which is exactly how I am.........and there is nothing wrong with self discovery of your own lifes mistakes

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Well said.

Having open arms and cleaning up her mess are two different things. It can be so frustrating... when a child turns 18, they automatically get the legal right to make decisions for themselves but they don't necessarily have enough life experience to ensure that the decisions they're making are good ones. As a parent, you try to guide them toward making the right decisions but they don't always listen or agree. When they don't listen and they make mistakes, I think it's important that they clean up their own mess to the extent they're able. While they're cleaning up their own mess, it's important to be supportive - to have both arms open, to be there for them emotionally and to offer suggestions if they want them or are willing to listen.

At her age, I think it's important for her to know that you are there for her and that she is welcome to move back home if she realizes she made a mistake and needs a re-do.

Once they leave, my kids will always be welcome to come back home if they need to. The "rules" will be different from when they were kids living at home but I hope they know they'll always be loved and welcome no matter what.
Good luck. I hope things work out for you and your dd. I know it isn't always easy!

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I've could of written the exact same post along with the same sisters too. Not only this, but I want to add that by enabling them to do all this stuff for them acually will make them into not so smart adults and fake people. My one sister is now a hoarder because no one told her to clean her room, had a kid that lives with my parents and then had another kid who lives with them (both have the same dad) they both have no money skills, my dad bought them a brand new house, still pays for their house insurance...oh and she's 36 yrs old.

my other sister goes thru jobs like people go thru underware. She's lazy and doesn't want to work (and she is educated too) she's lucky that her dh makes good money. Is so fake its sickening, but thats how she gets what she wants. My parents still do everything for her too, like cut the grass, clean her enourmous house, oh she don't have any kids...she's 30yrs old

I on the other hand have to do everything myself. I moved out at 18yrs old, got a job, found dh in a bar lol! and now have 4 kids. Considering I'm the busiest with the most amount of kids and the biggest property no one helps us out. I now install those values in my kids. I show them what happens when parents do everything for you. I also told my kids that we will partially help them with school but I expect them to earn the other half. If they don't want to go to school then they can live here but they will pay rent (but i will put it in another account)

My next door neighbour allowed the boyfriends to move in with his teenage daughters. I have never ever seen such lazy kids like these ones. In the winter those won't shovel the driveway, they don't take out the trash, don't cut the grass. Dh always says that he would never ever allow that nonesense in the house.

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what are her plans if she drops out of school. Make her write it down and let her post it to the fridge. Sometimes having a visual plan works too.

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Right.

She will be O.K, and in the end will figure it out. Even if it means she drops out of school. It will always be O.K.

She's probably just in need of someone to vent to. I wouldn't offer to bail her out, but offer her a place to come back to as soon as she figures this all out.

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