FP Visit Today

[Josiegirl]

I always learn many interesting things when this woman visits. She said the state of Vt. is currently going after providers who are illegally providing care. There are 3 cases right now that are going to court. She knows many providers who are flying under the radar and has been turning them in. We started talking about infants and toddlers; she's been to 1 provider's house that is way over numbers with little ones. She reported her. She doesn't feel it's right that people are operating illegally, making as much if not way more, than providers who are jumping through hoops for the state. Families are turning a blind eye and some are also paying more than what the average in-home provider charges.
I came out and admitted to her the thought has crossed my mind more than once to do that, but getting caught scares me and if something were to happen, terrifies me of the consequences. It wouldn't be worth it.

[e.j.]

I'm the same way. I'd love to be able to do day care without being licensed but would never dare to do it illegally.

I'm not sure how diligent licensing is in my state when it comes to closing down unlicensed day cares but I do know of at least one case where they just showed up at a woman's door and told her to stop providing care until she went through the licensing process. I think she was told they'd bring her to court and she'd be fined if they checked up on her and found her open for business again without a license. I think they helped her by speeding up the process so she wouldn't lose all of her families while she worked to get licensed.

[mamamanda]

I'm surprised by how different the rules are from State to state. In my state I am legally able to have 5 dcks without being licensed. My own children do not count in the ratio. And extended family members count if they are paying for services, but not if you are just taking care of them for the day for no charge. That really doesn't make sense to me b/c why does it matter if I get paid or not? It's the same number of kids either way? So my full time niece & nephew count in my ratios, but when I babysit for my other niece's on occasion while their mom goes to appts they don't count. But anyway, our local child care resource center is so very helpful & kind. I've attended trainings with them, they offer a toy library & laminator/die cut machines, etc, & even though I'm not licensed they will list my childcare & send me referrals as long as I operate legally. I'm just curious if these benefits were made available to unlicensed providers in other states if more of them would follow the law. Of course, if someone is willing to break the law they probably wouldn't follow regs even when they're more lenient, but it does make me wonder. Why does licensing make it so difficult? And why are so many providers willing to risk doing it illegally?

[Mike]

Originally Posted by mamamanda

I'm surprised by how different the rules are from State to state. ...

Me too. Even here in Canada, there are big differences between provinces.

[Josiegirl]

Originally Posted by mamamanda

I'm surprised by how different the rules are from State to state. In my state I am legally able to have 5 dcks without being licensed. My own children do not count in the ratio. And extended family members count if they are paying for services, but not if you are just taking care of them for the day for no charge. That really doesn't make sense to me b/c why does it matter if I get paid or not? It's the same number of kids either way? So my full time niece & nephew count in my ratios, but when I babysit for my other niece's on occasion while their mom goes to appts they don't count. But anyway, our local child care resource center is so very helpful & kind. I've attended trainings with them, they offer a toy library & laminator/die cut machines, etc, & even though I'm not licensed they will list my childcare & send me referrals as long as I operate legally. I'm just curious if these benefits were made available to unlicensed providers in other states if more of them would follow the law. Of course, if someone is willing to break the law they probably wouldn't follow regs even when they're more lenient, but it does make me wonder. Why does licensing make it so difficult? And why are so many providers willing to risk doing it illegally?

I would do that in a heartbeat, to have 5 dcks, operate legally and not have to be licensed. This summer I'll only have 4 dcks. The care wouldn't be any different(maybe less paperwork!) if I became unlicensed. I've been doing this so long it's become ingrained in me. In fact, before all our state's new regs. came into effect, I spent way more time with the dcks than I do now.
In our state, you can have 2 families but any more than that and you have to be registered. So if each family had 3 kids, you can still stay unlicensed.....? It's doesn't make sense. But then when one deals with the state, one deals with senseless stuff.

[mamamanda]

Originally Posted by Josiegirl

I would do that in a heartbeat, to have 5 dcks, operate legally and not have to be licensed. This summer I'll only have 4 dcks. The care wouldn't be any different(maybe less paperwork!) if I became unlicensed. I've been doing this so long it's become ingrained in me. In fact, before all our state's new regs. came into effect, I spent way more time with the dcks than I do now.
In our state, you can have 2 families but any more than that and you have to be registered. So if each family had 3 kids, you can still stay unlicensed.....? It's doesn't make sense. But then when one deals with the state, one deals with senseless stuff.

Yes, many of their regs don't make sense to me. Who comes up with the rules anyway? Rules are rules though & I don't understand how so many providers are ok with risking so much for a little money. I had a friend who needed care a few years ago b/c she was having a baby & wanted to leave her kids here while she went to the hospital since their closest family is several hours away. At the time I had 2 kids of my own & 5 full time dcks. I explained to her that if I kept her kids, even for a few hours as she kept insisting, I would be operating illegally. Her come back was that it would only be for a day or two & my families love me so no one would turn me in.

I told her flat out no. Risking my business is not worth her convenience for a day. But then I understood how some providers might allow themselves to be guilted into more kids than legally allowed thinking they won't be reported.

Of course there are also those who just don't care & want a quick buck. I am glad most states go after them.

[Blackcat31]

If I didnt have to be licensed I wouldn't be either.

But in my state I can watch ONE family without a license but unless there's a family out there with at least 10 kids, I can't make the income I make now.

ONE family, no matter how many kids but only one family.
If you are licensed, your own kids count in ratios until age 11.

ETA: I can watch as many kids as I want if they are all related to me.
Immediate family only though, not second cousins twice removed type stuff.

[TheMisplacedMidwestMom]

Originally Posted by mamamanda

I'm surprised by how different the rules are from State to state. In my state I am legally able to have 5 dcks without being licensed. My own children do not count in the ratio. And extended family members count if they are paying for services, but not if you are just taking care of them for the day for no charge. That really doesn't make sense to me b/c why does it matter if I get paid or not? It's the same number of kids either way? So my full time niece & nephew count in my ratios, but when I babysit for my other niece's on occasion while their mom goes to appts they don't count. But anyway, our local child care resource center is so very helpful & kind. I've attended trainings with them, they offer a toy library & laminator/die cut machines, etc, & even though I'm not licensed they will list my childcare & send me referrals as long as I operate legally. I'm just curious if these benefits were made available to unlicensed providers in other states if more of them would follow the law. Of course, if someone is willing to break the law they probably wouldn't follow regs even when they're more lenient, but it does make me wonder. Why does licensing make it so difficult? And why are so many providers willing to risk doing it illegally?

Our laws here are similar, only we're limited to 4. Anytime I've talked to our resource center they have not been at all friendly, unless I'm asking questions about getting licensed. I asked about getting on the referral list once and was laughed at. They are not there for "people who just want to babysit a few kids".

[e.j.]

Originally Posted by TheMisplacedMidwestMom

Our laws here are similar, only we're limited to 4. Anytime I've talked to our resource center they have not been at all friendly, unless I'm asking questions about getting licensed. I asked about getting on the referral list once and was laughed at. They are not there for "people who just want to babysit a few kids".

Wow! I get their point but what a rude way to express it.

[mamamanda]

Originally Posted by TheMisplacedMidwestMom

Our laws here are similar, only we're limited to 4. Anytime I've talked to our resource center they have not been at all friendly, unless I'm asking questions about getting licensed. I asked about getting on the referral list once and was laughed at. They are not there for "people who just want to babysit a few kids".

That's so sad to me. They should be there to help quality providers, licensed or not. Ours here in my area knows I have no intention of becoming licensed primarily b/c I know myself well enough to know I wouldn't enjoy my day with a larger group like that. They are always helpful & friendly, helped me figure out how to set my rates, very encouraging, & call to check in & see if I'm interested in additional resources or classes about twice a year. I can't speak highly enough of our resource center. Makes me sad they're not all like that.

[Country Kids]

Our state is talking about making it a felony if you are caught doing childcare illegally.

We can only watch 3 children without a license here.

Our own children count in our numbers until they turn 13.

[Annalee]

Originally Posted by Country Kids

Our state is talking about making it a felony if you are caught doing childcare illegally.

We can only watch 3 children without a license here.

Our own children count in our numbers until they turn 13.

It is 4 here with no license but they are cracking down on it....effective in the fall there will be hoops for them to go through if they receive federal funds of any kind....food program or subsidy care... Right now it is 4 unrelated and innumerable related but that number will have a low cap this Fall.

[LysesKids]

Originally Posted by Annalee

It is 4 here with no license but they are cracking down on it....effective in the fall there will be hoops for them to go through if they receive federal funds of any kind....food program or subsidy care... Right now it is 4 unrelated and innumerable related but that number will have a low cap this Fall.

There are already hoops to jump thru for FP, taking Fosters and Subsidy, they are just adding more... they are having issues with the subsidy revamp at the moment, its why I won't take it.

Because I have taken Foster kids as Drop-ins, I had to go thru licensing procedure already including background. I just don't have the Full license because my Manufactured home is a single wide instead of double; Blount Co even approved me as a home business when I first moved here and because I do under 24 months only, a full license still wouldn't let me take more than 4 babes

[Annalee]

Originally Posted by LysesKids

There are already hoops to jump thru for FP, taking Fosters and Subsidy, they are just adding more... they are having issues with the subsidy revamp at the moment, its why I won't take it.

Because I have taken Foster kids as Drop-ins, I had to go thru licensing procedure already including background. I just don't have the Full license because my Manufactured home is a single wide instead of double; Blount Co even approved me as a home business when I first moved here and because I do under 24 months only, a full license still wouldn't let me take more than 4 babes

Yep, subsidy is having a large problem, they aren't paying providers timely enough, sometimes for months.....those receiving FP monies will have a big choice to make...either get licensed or stop keeping all those "related" kids.

[LysesKids]

Originally Posted by Annalee

Yep, subsidy is having a large problem, they aren't paying providers timely enough, sometimes for months.....those receiving FP monies will have a big choice to make...either get licensed or stop keeping all those "related" kids.

I like my small numbers and thankfully everyone here in my area knows I am on the up & up; I run as though I am full license and I have pissed a few families off because I wont play "under the table " games much less go over in numbers... the subsidy non payment is why I stopped taking it in 2 other states as well; IL had a huge problem in '09-10 and lots of providers went under due to no $$