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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Accidentally Over Ratio Today
Unregistered 06:44 AM 05-14-2014
I have had some medical things going on, and have to have a minor surgical procedure tomorrow, so I called off work. The dcp's have been really great and flexible with what has been going on, so when one of the dcm's asked if I coud switch her two kids from tomorrow to today, I said of course. I forgot that today is the "off" kindergarten day for 2 of my school agers, so I will be 2 kids over ratio for 3 hours today.

2 of them are less than a month away from the age cut off from being "legal." I just dont like being over ratio for any amount of time. Would you call dcm and have her pick up her kids, or just ride the next 3 hours out?
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cara041083 06:47 AM 05-14-2014
In my area (kansas) I am allowed 2 "extra school age'ed kids until School lets out. I just can't have them while summer is here. you might check into it. It could be the same for you as well
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jenn 06:48 AM 05-14-2014
I would just go on with the day as normal, and cross my fingers that licensing didn't decide to visit today! I would never recommend operating purposely over ratio. However, this sounds like a one time oversight. Good luck with your procedure.
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cara041083 06:48 AM 05-14-2014
In my area (kansas) I am allowed 2 "extra school age'ed kids until School lets out. I just can't have them while summer is here. you might check into it. It could be the same for you as well and if you can, then you are good. As long as the school year isn't over yet, then you can have them on off days.
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cara041083 06:49 AM 05-14-2014
Originally Posted by cara041083:
In my area (kansas) I am allowed 2 "extra school age'ed kids until School lets out. I just can't have them while summer is here. you might check into it. It could be the same for you as well
Computer messed up lol
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daycare 08:18 AM 05-14-2014
I did something similar one time and was freaking out. Of course the one and only time that ever happens, guess what. Food program showed up.

Lucky for me, one of the kids get picked up right before lunch, so the parent showed up to pick up at the same exact time the Food Program did. Nothing was said about it at all and I don't even know if the guy noticed.

I wanted to cry my eyes out. It was 100% my fault and due to poor scheduling on my behalf. NEVER again.

That would have been horrible if it were LIC...........

relax, we make mistakes. Just learn from it and move on.
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drseuss 08:25 AM 05-14-2014
I would probably call parents for pick up and apologize profusely for the mistake. I wouldn't want a citation for operating over ratio on my record.
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Blackcat31 09:34 AM 05-14-2014
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I have had some medical things going on, and have to have a minor surgical procedure tomorrow, so I called off work. The dcp's have been really great and flexible with what has been going on, so when one of the dcm's asked if I coud switch her two kids from tomorrow to today, I said of course. I forgot that today is the "off" kindergarten day for 2 of my school agers, so I will be 2 kids over ratio for 3 hours today.

2 of them are less than a month away from the age cut off from being "legal." I just dont like being over ratio for any amount of time. Would you call dcm and have her pick up her kids, or just ride the next 3 hours out?
ABSOLUTELY!!

I would never go over ratios..... not even for a minute let alone 3 hours.

Rules are rules for a reason and whether or not we agree with them does not matter...

Thinking it's no big deal or it's only for a couple hours or whatever is also not okay because all it takes is one time.

One time to have something happen
One time for someone to get hurt
One time for someone to report you
One time for an incident to change your life.

NOT worth it in my opinion

Plus, when that one thing happens....it then gives ALL providers a bad name.
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Laurel 10:04 AM 05-14-2014
Originally Posted by jenn:
I would just go on with the day as normal, and cross my fingers that licensing didn't decide to visit today! I would never recommend operating purposely over ratio. However, this sounds like a one time oversight. Good luck with your procedure.


Laurel
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CraftyMom 10:16 AM 05-14-2014
I did something similar last summer. I said yes to a drop in, but my numbers over lapped by 20 minutes. I figured what are the chances of anyone finding out? It's only 20 minutes!

Well just my luck a dcm decides to pick up unannounced. She never said a word to me until they left on bad terms. She went to the state and told on me and I got cited. My licensor said even 2 minutes over ratio is too much.

I understand though and hope it works out well if you decided to keep them!
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Blackcat31 10:25 AM 05-14-2014
Originally Posted by CraftyMom:
I did something similar last summer. I said yes to a drop in, but my numbers over lapped by 20 minutes. I figured what are the chances of anyone finding out? It's only 20 minutes!

Well just my luck a dcm decides to pick up unannounced. She never said a word to me until they left on bad terms. She went to the state and told on me and I got cited. My licensor said even 2 minutes over ratio is too much.

I understand though and hope it works out well if you decided to keep them!
I am surprised by the number of posters that have said it's not a big deal.
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CraftyMom 10:36 AM 05-14-2014
I will never go over ratio again!
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Play Care 10:37 AM 05-14-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
ABSOLUTELY!!

I would never go over ratios..... not even for a minute let alone 3 hours.

Rules are rules for a reason and whether or not we agree with them does not matter...

Thinking it's no big deal or it's only for a couple hours or whatever is also not okay because all it takes is one time.

One time to have something happen
One time for someone to get hurt
One time for someone to report you
One time for an incident to change your life.

NOT worth it in my opinion

Plus, when that one thing happens....it then gives ALL providers a bad name.


"Sue, I wanted to get in touch with you right away. Unfortunately I forgot tomorrow is an early dismissal day from school and I won't be able to provide care for your kids. The state is pretty strict about things like that, I'm sure you understand!"

To me it's one thing if I'm in violation unknowingly over something (not ideal but it happens) but to knowingly break a rule? And then if it so happens licensing does show, you look like a sneaky jerk. I mean, do providers honestly say to the licensor, "I was just hoping you wouldn't show today?"
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llpa 10:55 AM 05-14-2014
Originally Posted by drseuss:
I would probably call parents for pick up and apologize profusely for the mistake. I wouldn't want a citation for operating over ratio on my record.

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Annalee 10:59 AM 05-14-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I am surprised by the number of posters that have said it's not a big deal.
Ratio is the considered the worst violation in my state. I would not want to get caught with my numbers off.
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daycarediva 11:00 AM 05-14-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
ABSOLUTELY!!

I would never go over ratios..... not even for a minute let alone 3 hours.

Rules are rules for a reason and whether or not we agree with them does not matter...

Thinking it's no big deal or it's only for a couple hours or whatever is also not okay because all it takes is one time.

One time to have something happen
One time for someone to get hurt
One time for someone to report you
One time for an incident to change your life.

NOT worth it in my opinion

Plus, when that one thing happens....it then gives ALL providers a bad name.
Yup, I would make that call. I would apologize profusely, and if DCM is someone I want to work with, she would be understanding and appreciate my honesty and adherence to state regulations.

Not even ONE MINUTE will I go over ratio.
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nothingwithoutjoy 11:08 AM 05-14-2014
I have accidentally overscheduled like that. I definitely called and said she couldn't come after all. But I felt SO guilty toward the parent that I'd promised space to, that I gave her a free day as an apology.
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gracepatiencelove 11:20 AM 05-14-2014
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I have had some medical things going on, and have to have a minor surgical procedure tomorrow, so I called off work. The dcp's have been really great and flexible with what has been going on, so when one of the dcm's asked if I coud switch her two kids from tomorrow to today, I said of course. I forgot that today is the "off" kindergarten day for 2 of my school agers, so I will be 2 kids over ratio for 3 hours today.

2 of them are less than a month away from the age cut off from being "legal." I just dont like being over ratio for any amount of time. Would you call dcm and have her pick up her kids, or just ride the next 3 hours out?
Can someone come pick up your own kids if you have any?

I would just ask the most flexible mom(s), honestly. Explain it was a huge mistake/oversight.
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Leanna 11:22 AM 05-14-2014
I would call DCM, be honest and explain that you goofed the schedule, apologize profusely, and offer a free day as a trade-off. I just wouldn't risk being over ratio for so many reasons: food program, licensing, if someone got hurt, if parents questioned you...just not worth it in my opinion. Any reasonable parent would understand that you accidentally overbooked the day, but they would not understand why you let it go.
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Christina72684 11:39 AM 05-15-2014
Originally Posted by jenn:
I would just go on with the day as normal, and cross my fingers that licensing didn't decide to visit today! I would never recommend operating purposely over ratio. However, this sounds like a one time oversight. Good luck with your procedure.


It's happened a few times to us, usually by one kid and not all day, but we've never had a surprised inspection (knock on wood!) and if it would happen I would just tell them that so-and-so's mom was supposed to pick up by now but hasn't shown up yet. Or if we're well enough staffed I would take my own 2 kids and leave.
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Christina72684 11:41 AM 05-15-2014
And I know every state/area is different, but here you can be Class I and have 12 kids, or Class II and have 16. The only difference is some paperwork. So I feel that if I accidentally had 13 kids for a few hours that shouldn't be a big issue just because I didn't do the extra work to get to 16 yet because I don't want that many.
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Sugar Magnolia 12:02 PM 05-15-2014
Just a funny story for you. We had a little girl having a birthday party, mom brought invitations to hand out, so I did. She invited every single person enrolled here, and their siblings which is totally fine........except.....the "party" was at my school! Not at her house!. And during daycare hours!! We have many part time kids, 3 of whom do not attend on the day in question. If everyone had shown up, which I knew they wouldn't, especially school age siblings, I would have been over by 5 KIDS! OMG! Mom didn't realize this. I did not realize the party was HERE until I was told by another parent. Yikes! Can you even imagine? "Oops,.sorry, you can't come to the party! We're all filled up!"
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SignMeUp 12:12 PM 05-15-2014
In my county, there is NO reason good enough to be over ratio. No excuse.

In fact there are reports that some providers have been cited for being over ratio because a parent brought siblings along at pick-up time. Or because some former client stopped by for a quick visit, with their children.

In my opinion, to enforce sanctions for those scenarios are going overboard.
But my opinion does not matter. Only the licensing person's opinion matters.
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Unregistered 12:17 PM 05-15-2014
I ended up just sending my kids to play at their friends house (our neighbor). Thanks for the input!
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TwinKristi 12:24 PM 05-15-2014
Originally Posted by SignMeUp:
In my county, there is NO reason good enough to be over ratio. No excuse.

In fact there are reports that some providers have been cited for being over ratio because a parent brought siblings along at pick-up time. Or because some former client stopped by for a quick visit, with their children.

In my opinion, to enforce sanctions for those scenarios are going overboard.
But my opinion does not matter. Only the licensing person's opinion matters.
How is this possible?? It's pretty easy to prove the child wasn't there with the provider that day by school records, your own records or an affidavit by the parent or another witness? I would fight that one til the bitter end! I know it doesn't go over well to "challenge authority" but if I did nothing wrong and was cited, it would be on!
Our old daycare provider was essentially running her daycare as a large (meaning you can have 12-16 as opposed to 6-8 with a helper) and had to get rid of several children. She was doing the right thing ratio wise, and was a good provider, but didn't have the proper license in place to do so. I ended up using her assistant as a nanny when she let us go which worked out because it was only a few months until I was going to be on maternity leave and SAH.
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SignMeUp 12:40 PM 05-15-2014
Originally Posted by TwinKristi:
How is this possible?? It's pretty easy to prove the child wasn't there with the provider that day by school records, your own records or an affidavit by the parent or another witness?
Not sure WHY it's possible. Apparently we are no longer allowed to get together with another provider and their kids either. Unless it's at the playground or library or another public place, the provider whose home everyone is at is considered out of ratio.

It's increasingly antagonistic here over the past ten years or so, and the providers don't really understand why that is.
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Blackcat31 01:07 PM 05-15-2014
Originally Posted by TwinKristi:
How is this possible?? It's pretty easy to prove the child wasn't there with the provider that day by school records, your own records or an affidavit by the parent or another witness? I would fight that one til the bitter end! I know it doesn't go over well to "challenge authority" but if I did nothing wrong and was cited, it would be on!
Our old daycare provider was essentially running her daycare as a large (meaning you can have 12-16 as opposed to 6-8 with a helper) and had to get rid of several children. She was doing the right thing ratio wise, and was a good provider, but didn't have the proper license in place to do so. I ended up using her assistant as a nanny when she let us go which worked out because it was only a few months until I was going to be on maternity leave and SAH.
Originally Posted by SignMeUp:
Not sure WHY it's possible. Apparently we are no longer allowed to get together with another provider and their kids either. Unless it's at the playground or library or another public place, the provider whose home everyone is at is considered out of ratio.

It's increasingly antagonistic here over the past ten years or so, and the providers don't really understand why that is.
I am not familiar with that personally but we have had several providers post that yes, they CANNOT allow siblings (or neighbors or friends) to be outside of the car or ANYWHERE on the property or they will be considered over ratios.

I am not sure if anyone has actually been cited for it, since you can easily explain that Joey is here because his mom is standing right her to get little brother... I don't know but just wanted to say, yes....I've heard the same thing..
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Blackcat31 01:13 PM 05-15-2014
Originally Posted by Christina72684:




It's happened a few times to us, usually by one kid and not all day, but we've never had a surprised inspection (knock on wood!) and if it would happen I would just tell them that so-and-so's mom was supposed to pick up by now but hasn't shown up yet. Or if we're well enough staffed I would take my own 2 kids and leave.
Originally Posted by Christina72684:
And I know every state/area is different, but here you can be Class I and have 12 kids, or Class II and have 16. The only difference is some paperwork. So I feel that if I accidentally had 13 kids for a few hours that shouldn't be a big issue just because I didn't do the extra work to get to 16 yet because I don't want that many.
In my state we can operate under the lower tiered licenses if we are licensed for a larger license.

For example I am licensed as a C-3 (the largest license they give) but operate daily only at a C-1.

If I were licensed as a C-1 though and had the capacity/ratio of a C-3 but didn't do the extra paperwork, I would still be cited.

So I DO think it is a big deal to be over even if it's simply a matter of paperwork. Why? Because a law is a law and we don't have to agree with the rules/laws and because every time a provider tries to justify why they broke a law (especially one they knew about) it makes us all look bad.

So, if I were in your shoes, if I thought there might be a possibility (no matter how small) that I could potentially be over license capacity being at the lower license, I would just do the paperwork for the larger license and sleep soundly at night knowing I did the right thing rather than just winging it.
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