A little bit of a back story.

Another daycare lady and I from town are really good friends. She mentioned to me that one of her clients friends was looking for care for her 3 and 4 year olds part time. I told her I'd consider taking them.

A few days after that the mom called me and we did our interview and they signed on with me. Their hours were from 9-1 M-Th. Once school started it would be even less. The mom agreed to pay my part time hours, 36, per week for the two spots.

The first week they were here, actually the first day, she was an hour late and never called to let me know. The first week they we went outside and I was out there at all times with them because my family with the infant was gone on vacation so I could be out there all the time.

While outside that first week, I focused a lot of time on showing the new kids where they could and could not go. We have a yard that is 98% fenced in. My WHOLE back wall in my house is a window so I can see literally every inch of the backyard too, plus there is a door that I keep open while they are out there no matter what.

Well the second week the kids were here, I had the infant back, so when I sent the older kids outside, including the two new kids, I sat in my computer chair while feeding the infant watching the kids in the back yard. I could hear and see EVERYTHING they were doing.

On Wednesday I was going outside to check on the kids and I noticed the knats had come out in full force, so I hurried up and got all the kids in. The new little girl had gotten bit on her right ear, and it was bleeding. I quickly got her inside and cleaned it up, nothing major happened, it was a normal knat bite. That day I told mom about it and she laughed and said "kids will be kids", so I thought no problem.

Next morning I got a text from mom, "kids won't be there girl is sick from bug bites." So I brushed it off and said ok see you tomorrow when you stop to pay me. She stopped Friday to pay me, no problems at all, happy and acted like nothign was wrong. Friday night I get a text taht the kids won't be here at all the next week because her sister is in town. Ok, she said she'd stop and pay me no problem again.

Then on this past Tuesday she texted me and said that they will no longer be coming because they found another daycare that fits their family better. I wrote back and said Ok I understand, when will you be leaving because per my contract, that you signed, you owe me either two weeks notice or two weeks pay.

She wrote back and said The new arrangement is a better fit for her family because of the things her kids learned here, the bug bites and the fact that the little boy told her he was allowed outside without any supervision.

I told her that yes they are allowed outside, but I'm always in the back of the house watching them if I am not out there. As for the bug bites, I just told her I can't help if her daughter got one bug bite, it is a known risk with living in our area. I did ask her what her kids learned here that she didn't agree to.

She texted me back and said again that she didn't think she should have to pay me since it was my services she was uncomfortable with.

I wrote back and said by signing my contract you agreed to all terms and conditions of my contract INCLUDING but not limited to, my two week notice/pay policy. I also said I'd expect her payment of $288 to be mailed to me by June 15th.

So far she has two days left and I've seen nothing. She kept texting me that night saying that since it is my services she is uncomfortable with she doesn't feel she has to pay.

I am wondering if I handled that in the best way possible? She never once told me what her children "learned" here that was sooo bad.

Is there anything else I should/could have done?

Kudo's if you read ALL of this!

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If she doesn't pay, I would let her know that you will be taking her to small claims court and it will cost her more money. She will have to pay court costs if she loses. She will lose since you have a contract.

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Well unless you have something in your contract about supervision or specifically saying that you will be physically present when they are outdoors, you're not within your states regulations or you have broken any part of your contract then I don't see how that explanation could fly.

I know that some places have different regulations so you would really have to check yours (if any apply to you) to see if you were in the wrong or not. Soem places you have to be physically present in the same area as the children and they can never be left alone, some you have to be within eyesight, some you have to be within sight OR sound and can have kids sleeping on another floor, other places you can only have kids on the same floor that you are on as long as you are within hearing distance and other places if you are not required to be licensed or registered there aren't any regulations on this stuff at all. What do your regulations say?

If you could find a regulation about this and send it to her (or send her message saying that there are no regulations about this if you have none) and say that this wasn't discussed at sign up and you didn't know this would even be a problem and had she simply talked to you about it the situation could have been changed etc. so therefore you are still owed that money. She can repeat herself all she wants but saying it iver and over doesn't magically change her legal obligations.

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I would take it to court. Send her the notice of warning first. Then, follow through if you don't get payment by said date.

You did the right thing, to answer your question. It was a good idea to ask what the issues were and such as well. Also, a good idea to enforce the payment issue. I've had it happen to me as well. Have to admit, I haven't always been good about seeking that payment (just to uncomfortable sometimes) so, now I require the last two weeks upfront and it counts toward a deposit. Non-refundable and that's noted as well.
Haven't had that problem (of no payment) since!!

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My regulations state that(and I am NOT quoting this) children over the age of 2 may be allowed outside without supervision as long as they are in a lot ajecent to the daycare home and are within sight/hearing distance. As stated my whole back wall is a window and door, so I can see if not see AND hear at all times. The only reason I'd be inside is if the infant is sleeping or eating.

I told her what my daycare rule via the state says and she goes "I'm in no way accusing you of doing anything against the law."

I am fully prepared to take her to small claims court. I've already been in contact with a family friend that is a lawyer and we're getting things lined up already as I don't feel she'll pay me.

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I just wish she would have told me what her kids learned that she was uncomfortable with. I am always willing to learn from mistakes or misdoings.

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She hasn't told you because she doesn't have anything legitimate to say. You already called her out on ONE bug bit and one trip outdoors. She shouldn't have taken her kids story as truth and then lie about those days they were gone while she was really finding another provider. She knows shes wrong and is hoping you drop it out of fear for what her kids supposedly learned there. Take her to court. One official letter will sometimes make them cough up the payment.

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The nice thing about taking someone to court, even though it doesn't benefit you as much, is that in Alaska where I live there is a court website where you can look up court cases. Before I take a client I always do my own internet background check, and I always review their court cases. Gone through a divorce? No problem. Had domestic violence charges stick? Not coming to my house. Have a string of bad debts and evictions? Not going to pay me, most likely, and not using my services.

At least it serves as a warning to the next guy. MANY times I have called someone after an interview because I saw on the court website that they have been sued more than once by daycares or centers and have been ordered to pay.

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Court....

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Thank you all so much for your replies. I am fully ok with heading to court to collect my money.

It was really hard last week when she first said everything to me. It really made me feel like a bad daycare provider and that I might have done something wrong to put a child in danger. Deep down I know I didn't do anything wrong, but when people make false accusations, it hurts.

I'm finally to the point where I'm ok with the situation, but I just hope she smartens up and pays me before I have to take this further.

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I wouldn't feel at all comfortable with my child coming home covered in bites after being outside alone. I have never heard of gnats that bite and cause blood. One of the reasons you go outside with the kids is to notice biting insects. Its not easy telling a new provider that you are uncomfortable, in front of your kids with the new provider.

I think you knew she was uncomfortable, you knew the amount of attention you were giving during a reasonable trial period was more than what you would be offering later and that you are asking to be paid for work you did not do. I would let it go.

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Anybody else smell a troll? Usually I'd reply back to this sort of response trying to defend myself, but I know better than that now!

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dear unregistered,
please read the post before you apply. The op said the child had 1 bite not several. Just like misquitos, you never know where they can pop up. Also, these children were old enough to be outside by themselves, I'm glad for people like you who hoover over children all day and night, they make our society so much better (do you see my sacrasm) you didn't then read the part that the mom was a flake either and that she was just looking for cheap care, she could have cared less. If she cared about the situation she would have tried to work it out with the provider. Also, its funny how you can add your 2 cents to a post but are to chicken to register and post your name.

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Amen sister! Thank you!

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Not just Alaska. I'm in CA and although there isn't a centralized website that checks the whole state my county does have a website with a case search where I can enter the persons name and birthdate and it'll show any cases within our county that they've been involved in. After the initial telephone contact I e-mail the potential client with a form that mostly asks questions about their child, why they need care, did they put in their 2-weeks notice etc. At the top I ask for the parent's info like where they work, work hours etc. I sneak date of birth in there so that I can check them out. It's a good idea to see whether your area does this but not all places do.

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hallelujah !!!!!!!!

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Send her a certified letter stating payment is due by whatever date and then you will begin court proceedings.

PS: The only way to get rid of the trolls is to INGORE them. Much like a 2 year old whose having a tantrum.

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Does anyone know exactly the guidelines I have to follow before I can file court papers? I live in Minnesota by the way.

Last week I told her that her money was to be to me by June 15th and here we are on June 15th and I've received NOTHING. So I am going to get a letter written up that will be sent certified mail to her.

Does anyone have a template that I could borrow? I want it to be very stern and black and white so she doesn't mix anything up.

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Here is the Minnesota Small Claims info.

http://www.mncourts.gov/default.aspx...13&category=53

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and maybe someday I will register....

But.

I bet this mom has photos of the child covered in bites that she is quitting her job to stay home with. I bet she is worried about disease. I bet she feels awful that she let her child be in that situation for even one day. I bet the best provider in the world would have a hard time making her feel comfortable now, and that she would rather work but just can't risk it.

I also feel that taking her to small claims court is petty, and trying to ruin her reputation is not good karma.

Yes, I read the original post. One bite that was already bleeding, and she hurried all the kids in....after she burped and changed this infant? in full view of all the children outside? And did she carry the infant with her to do this?

This situation was not a good fit for parent or provider. My honest, unregistered, opinion is that she should let it go and that she missed opportunities to be up front with this parent about the level of care, need for bug spray (not good for kids or infants), potential for the kids to be outside alone while she cared for the infant inside and maybe other things.

She missed an opportunity to re-evaluate the mother's comfort level with care when mom kept her kids home the first time. She could have avoided court, and she is enjoying bashing this mom too much. I don't like it.

Many of us have quit our jobs to be home with our kids. How many of us did it because we simply couldn't find care we were pleased or comfortable with? Once you have had a bad experience with a childcare provider, how do your expectations change? How many days do you leave your child in care that you are uncomfortable with? Why does providing bad care deserve two weeks free pay?

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Here's a sample that I have (I changed it to fit your needs better, feel free to change it):

Your Name
Address
City, State Zip Code
Date

Parent's Name
Address
City, State Zip Code

Dear _________,
I am writing in regard to the amount you owe me for breach of contract by not properly giving me a two-weeks notice and for non-payment of that time. On [date] you notified me that the children [child A] and [child B] would not longer be coming to me for child care. I reminded you that you are required to give a proper two-week notice and that payment is required for that time regardless of whether the children attend childcare. I gave you until June 16, 2011 to make good on your payment and as of this date you have not.

As a final reminder I would like to notify you that as stated in our contract to which you signed and agreed to follow it states:

"Two full weeks of advanced notice are required in writing to drop your child from the daycare facility. Payment for the two weeks is required regardless of whether or not your child attends during that time.[this is my policy so you would type in whatever your policy says]"

"There is a $5.00 per day late payment fee if tuition is not paid on the day that your payment is due.."

"Attempts to collect monies owed, if not successfully collected, will be sent to court and/or reported to collections should it be necessary. The parent/guardian will also be responsible for any fees and costs incurred during this process including ,but not limited to, court, attorney and collection agency fees."

According to my records, the fees that are owed are:
Two-week termination period June 1, 2011 through June 15, 2011 $[amount]
Late payment fees for the period of May 30,2011 to June 15, 2011 $[amount]

The balance due is $[amount]. This amount does not include late fees after June 15, 2011. {optional: I am willing to waive the late fees if the balance of $[amount] is paid by [date]. If this balance is not paid by the specified date a small claims suit will be filed against you for the amount due plus my costs. Your account will also be reported to ProviderWatch, a national childcare credit reporting agency catered for childcare providers to run checks on clients. ProviderWatch.com 866-267-3691


Please contact me immediately so that we may resolve this matter.


Sincerely,
Signature
Your Name
Phone Number

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This sounds like a couple posts from the "taxes" forum (although misplaced) from an unregistered user on 6-8-11. The thread is entitled "Outside regulations".

"I have a question along the same lines. I have a 3 year old and a 4 year old at a day care that I have had nothing but issues with. Both my kids came home with bleeding bug bites all over their heads.. the kids told me that they were outside all day.. my 3 year old ran out of the house and I didn't realize it and I asked her why she said she doesn't need to ask at "Daniell's" I brought this up to her and she was very snotty and said I don't have to be outside with children over 2 I watch them out my window... BTW yard is notfenced in... "

"thanks. She is licensed and that is why we have to pay her for 36 hrs of babysitting even though we only have her babysit for 12 hrs... because she is licensed we have to pay a minimum of 144 a week regardless of how many hrs we take the kids unless it goes over the 36 hrs then it is at a rate of 2 dollars a kid per hour."

Have you seen them Horselovinmom??

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Gets her popcorn.

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Wow, Cat Herder!
You are quite the sleuth.

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Nah, I am just the one who answered her a couple times.....so I remembered her.

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Unregistered postings that I read on here mostly appear to be big talking people that like to belittle those who post that registered. It takes a lot of balls to talk about people here that are sharing with each other when you can hide behind unregistered guest. I and others than have registered here consider unregistered guest to be unregistered pest. You want to engage us with your toughts and ideas but it seems you need to hide to be brave enought to do it. You know the saying about opinions and a$$holes I imagine.

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Truth is, we can't assume that. We can only respond to the information we are given.

Many moms would MUCH MUCH MUCH rather to stay home with their child. Some would MUCH MUCH MUCH rather just not work. If their dh is saying you have to go to work, that type of mom might rather find a way OUT of having to work.
Some moms are ridiculously over protective. You cannot, even if your child is sitting on your lap, avoid every single bug bite. unless you are hovering above your child, or place them in a bubble, there is no way to see 100% or 360 degrees of their body. If you're looking them in the face, can you see a bug biting the back of their leg? NO.

We ALL have to remember that when someone posts on here, we are receiving THEIR version of a story. we are receiving the information they provide, their opinion of what went on, their perception of the event. When someone tells you a story, and you turn around and tell someone else, it's not identical to the original version. I believe there is a game called telephone that proves this very thing.

Stop bashing us for providing OUR OPINION of what happened based on what the original poster gave for info. If the original poster tells us the mom was beating her kids right in front of her, well we can only offer our advice, opinions or concerns on that information.

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Sounds a lot like the situation I'm going through. The only difference is my backyard is 98% fenced in. The only open spots is along my house, where the kids are not allowed to play and right by my back door.

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I am not bashing this mom, I thought she was very nice. I just don't agree with parents that don't follow contracts. I also wish she would have come to me at the first sign of a problem. I'm a very easy going person and not hard to talk to.

I agree that daycares and parents don't always mix, but communication is #1.

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I like you Mike!

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HorseLovinMom, since 98% is not 100% a person could "technically" call your yard unfenced. So, I believe the unregistered poster from that Outside Regulations thread IS the exact mom you are dealing with. Same state, timeline matches up, number of hours of care, ages of kids, issues with bleeding bugbites...WAY too many coincidences. I would bet dollars to donuts that this is the same mom!!! Assume that it is and assume that she is reading this thread as well and knows what your plans are.

I would suggest creating a new account with a new logon id to reclaim your anonymity.

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With all due respect to our regular members here, I have to say I agree with unregistered on this one.

The thing is, regardless of whether or not it is within regulations, children should not be left unsupervised outdoors. ESPECIALLY if your not fully fenced.....it only takes seconds for a child to "disappear" and even though they have been told they are not allowed to go on the side of the house where it is not fenced, we all know kids do not always adhere to the rules we set. Moreso I think the issue is that the parent was not informed that they would be outside unsupervised and that is something that should be discussed at the interview.....that right there would have avoided the whole problem because Mom likely would have realized then that this was not going to be the ideal fit for her family.

Regarding the bug bite....even if you were directly supervising that could still happen, but I'd be highly concerned about gnats that can actually draw blood and would be spraying to avoid such an incidence from occurring again. West nile virus can be spread through bites like that and that can be deadly. I'd be super vigilant about that.

In the future I would certainly discuss with potential clients the fact that you allow them outside unsupervised and have them sign a statement acknowledging that it has been discussed and that they agree to it. I'd also have the regulations readily available for anyone who questions you on it.

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Wow! Excellent sluething! Yes your privacy is likely gone. What are the chances of that happening?!?

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I have to say, I think unregistered in THIS POST is the same mom. All I can say, is document.

Also, Crystal...of course you would agree with 'unregistered' ..we would not expect anything less from you.

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I also have a feeling the unregistered poster is the same mother but I gues we will never be sure....so....

...and regarding the comment towards Crystal....I don't understand what the point of that statement was? She had some very valid points.

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Hmm - this is a tough one as she did pay you for the times you watched her children.

If I was being paid to watch children then I would be outside if they were. JMHO I understand that you were watching from indoors but if a neighbor were watching, it would look like you weren't supervising them at all. KWIM?

I don't get that the child was sick from bug bites. Just a coincidence as they were new to Daycare and probably just picked up a bug (no pun intended).

I know mosquitos and gnats can leave some welts and yes, my son has bled from gnat bites too - they are horrible little creatures! But he's never gotten sick from bug bites.

This is strictly a contract matter at this point as you have the texts to back you up on the date. (save those texts!)

I personally would write it off as a loss but if you're willing to miss a day of work in court, then go for it. I wouldn't expect the other parents to pay you for that day though so you have to weigh it out. Is it really worth your time and trouble?

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Pardon me? Exactly what in MY post do YOU disagree with, other than the fact that I agreed with unregistered? Do you think children should be left outside unsupervised, especially without a fully fenced yard? Do you think the provider should NOT have told the parent at the interview that she doesn't actively, physically supervise outdoor play at all times, so that the Mom could make an informed decision as to whether this provider was the right provider for her children? Do you think that the provider should NOT be vigilant about the bug issues? Hmmmmm.....I'm at a loss as to why you would think I am wrong.............

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If these children where in my care I never would have left them in the backyard alone.

Your backyard is not 100% fenced and even if it was I personally do not believe that a 3 or 4 year old should be left outside alone even if you are at the back of the house, even with all of the windows.

It sounds like this DCM was within the first two weeks of care so as long as she has paid you for the days that her children were actually present I would just drop it.

I think most parents would be uncomfortable with their 3 or 4 year old being left alone in the backyard....the fact that they were alone certainly contributed to the bug bites. I am assuming if you were outside with them you would have noticed the bugs sooner and either sprayed the kids or brought them inside.

I would ask yourself if you think it is really in the best interest of the dc kids to leave them outside while you are inside attending to others.

SAFETY is always the first priority.

Good luck.

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As a parent, I probably would have been unhappy that the kids were left outside in a yard that is 98% fenced. That means that there is a possibility of the kids escaping. (I have 2 climbing Houdinis, so I understand that.)

My 3, 4, & 5 yo do go into my backyard unsupervised for a few minutes at a time while I get breakfast or lunch on the table. My backyard is totally fenced with a lock on the gate, a lock on the pool fence, and a lock on the pool ladder. As the op, my kitchen/family room is all windows so I can see everything. I am not physically out there, but I can see and hear them at all times.

As for the bug bites, some people are more susceptible to them. A mosquito will fly past every member of my family to get to me.

As for the money. She did quit after the 2nd week, the kids came 2 weeks. My contract says either party can term during the first two weeks. You can take her to small claims because she violated your contract, but is the $250 worth the hassle to you?

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funny how all of you jump on her for not having a fenced yard. Well I don't have a fenced yard because its over and acre of land, I'm not required either. Just because you don't have fencing doesn't mean that your yard is unsafe, as a matter of fact I've seen kids act worse and do worse in a fenced in yard.

now only my 5 and up are allowed outside unsupervised, but I too have garden doors to the outside. The kids no the rules and are really good. Another thing is, some children are mature enough to go outside unsupervised.

the whole thing boils down to the fact that this mom wanted care for a short period of time, and if she didn't want to work with the provider than it was obvious the mom didn't want the care. Remember the gma I posted about how I couldn't pick the boy up at the end of my driveway (its not that long of a driveway) unless he came with me (which I didn't know this) and I wasn't allowed to pee unless he was outside my door, well gma never mentioned any of this stuff, she pulled him out after 2 days. They said that they were moving in the trailer park but I've never seen them, so we knew that it was a short term deal (she didn't say this either) so she needed excuses to pull him instead of working with me and finding a solution.

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I am sitting here trying to figure out how some of you came up with the conclusion that the children were left unsupervised. I understood the original poster to say she would check on the baby and sit on the other side of the windows and watch them. I am wondering now what some of you do when you go pee, do you take all the children in the bathroom with you? I know I don't. I see no difference in sitting on a patio outside my back door watching the children, or sitting on the inside of my back screen door watching the children as I feed an infant. The only difference is about 3 feet. In both senarios I can see and hear the children the exact same.

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exactly! couldn't agree with you more.

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I agree with this, however, every time we go outside, I always go out with them and check for any hazards that could be present.
I have a huge sliding glass door between my patio and DC room so I can sit on the steps right in front of the sliding glass and still allow kids to play inside if they also wanted.

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First of all, no one was "jumping on her" over her fence. The point is being able to understand Mom's point of not wanting her children outside unsupervised.

Secondly, No, I do not consider being indoors, even if you can see outside, actively, physically supervising. It may be okay, and she may be able to see everyone, but if the parent wants active, physical supervision and she is not providing that OUTSIDE the parent has the right to know and the right to choose whether that meets her ideal of care.

Also, if she is inside caring for an infant then there is NO WAY that she can be actively supervising 100% of the time....those few seconds that she is distracted with changing, feeding, etc. could be ALL it takes for a child to get out of the NOT 100% secure fence and disappear. She also could not immediately get to a child if something happens. She would have to finish whatever she is doing with baby, secure baby or carry baby with her, BEFORE getting to a child who is at risk of injury or has already been injured.

NOW....I am NOT saying that the provider should HAVE to be out there all of the time, and if it works for her great, but if that's what parents want, and she refuses too or cannot meet those needs, then the parent has every right to remove her children from care.....especially if she was not informed of this at enrollment.

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If I wrote an add that said:

"I have a 98% fenced backyard, I let three year olds play in the backyard without any adults with them."

How many dc parents would want to enroll their kids?

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So true! She said upfront that the kids were supervised.

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Gosh, is it that time of the month again?

Crystal, I do have to ask, that when you're outside with the kids, are you looking at EVERY kid EVERY second? You can see all the kids at one time and never are tying your shoe, scratching your nose, slapping a bug, looking at one child while you answer a question or kiss a minor bump, watching a butterfly flutter by, looking for interesting clouds, or searching for a four-leaf clover?

If so (and I have a hard time believing that your answer is going to be "no" for everything), you're not providing 100% active supervision either and in those few seconds that you are distracted with a single child (or whatever), something could happen and you should make sure your parents know that.

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My only issue would be that there is an escape route. The kids are not allowed in that area, and we all know that kids push the limits when they can. While the OP is doing a head count, little Johnny is sneaking out. BUT, that could happen while she was in the yard with them.

We are all so different on this forum and we are all human. What is right for me in my daycare would so not be allowed in another. I am much older than most here, I think, I'm much more lax. I've fought all the battles and now I'm content to pick and choose which ones I want to fight. I try not to be a "helicopter" provider and give the kids some breathing room.

IMHO, the main issue is that the OP feels that she is entitled to two weeks notice and/or two weeks pay. The parent feels that she was not receiving quality of care and does not feel that she should do either. That's where a contract and small claims comes into play.

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I really don't see why theres such a debate. To me it's clear. The daycare provider does things one way, the mom wants it a different way. Does the mom have a right to take her kids elsewhere if the provider doesn't believe in what she believes in? Absolutely, 100%, right there with you.

BUT the parent signed a contract that says that she will give a 2 weeks notice of termination. She can by all means change and go to another daycare if she wants and find another place that she feels is better for her children but she still needs to put in her 2 weeks notice. Whether she wants to take her kids to daycare during that time is up to her, but if she is required to pay for that time even if her kids aren't present well then sorry ... she still has to pay.

When I have interviews I don't ever say "Oh btw, when the kid go out back I don't go out there with them". I guess it's kind of the norm here. The kids come and go as they please during free time so my doors into the back are open. They can play in the back if they want or they can play in the playroom. I will stay where the majority of the kids are.

If this were to go to court where I live the provider would win hands down because they would go by what was on paper. The mom could say "but it's unsafe because theres a gap in the fence and there was no supervision" and the judge would look up the regulations to see what regulations consider to be "supervision". If supervision is "within hearing" or "within sight" then the provider is still ok because she could see the kids and therefore on paper, is still in the right. (now remember, I'm basing this on the information given and on because the provider has said that she has done nothing against regulations).

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I see valid points in BOTH sides of this argument. My only comment was to snowball. I thought her comment to another member (regardless of who) about not expecting anything less was IMHO a bit uncalled for and that those kinds of comments are what causes such a hostile environment on this forum.

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First, I think that is much different than being INSIDE the house.

Second, there are two to three providers here at all times, so I can say that yes, they are being actively, physically supervised at all times.

Third, as I said before, that if it works for the provider, great, but clearly it's not because a parent had an issues with it.

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Yes it is that time of the month Silversabre....


I'm going to say it again.....

We are hearing one side of the story here on this thread, with the chance that the other side of the story is on another thread from February.

Remember, our own perspective of things are different than someone elses. We can only comment on what we know, and what was said.

As for the OP, things didn't work out. But maybe I would suggest letting it be. Send a demand for payment if you must, but is it worth court?

As for the 98% fenced yard, IF she can clearly see the 2% that's not fenced, and KNOW that no child is wandering out of it, then fine. Bugs will get you regardless. Without actually viewing the space, it's hard to know how well she can supervise and manage children from indoors. I know I can manage my own children outdoors without me being there, but my dck's are all far too young to be left outside alone, and I have never left a dck alone, even watching from a window or a door.

For those of us who do not have assistants, we cannot watch children 100% of the time. We can watch them about 98-99% of the time, but there are times where our eyes aren't on them. And I do know for a fact that in those few seconds you don't have your eyes on them, they can literally be a tornado in my home. So if they can completely destroy my living room in 1 minute while I'm in the bathroom, I can just imagine what could happen if the OP was looking at the baby or changing a bum, or cleaning up vomit. But that's as much as I'll say about that.

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I have a 4ft chain length fence, and over the years, I have had a handful of kids try to scale it.....fence or no fence, if a child wants "out", they will find a way.

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A very good resaon for active, physical supervision.

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Actually the Parents post was from 13 days ago...

IMHO, this is pretty cut and dry.

If the parent was told that the provider would be providing active, direct, supervision while outside with the children, as is the rule/regulation here, then the provider is not entitled to a two week termination fee for breach of contract on her own part.

If the parent was told that the provider would be using a passive supervision technique when children were outside, while indoors herself, then the parent must pay the two week notice per her signed contract as she agreed to it.

If this was never discussed prior to enrollment then both the parent and provider have learned an invaluable lesson which they can both benefit from and the court will decide who loses the two week fee.

Not all States mandate Active/Direct Supervision so it is up to the parent to ask/ensure during the interview process if it is something that is important to them.

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oh my bad....where did I get february from? did this happen in february? i'm confused now.

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No...the parent found an old thread that was a tiny bit relevant to her question. She just picked the taxes forum so few saw it.

She posted a question of whether a provider was allowed to leave her kids outside alone.

I posted them on page one of this thread to make it easier. It gets confusing...I know.

I answered her on the other thread, that is how I remembered her to begin with.

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And you know what.....on more than one occassion I looked up at saw a kid trying to scale the fence BEHIND the play castle......I had been sitting on the patio less than 15 feet from him, but because he was BEHIND the play castle, he was out of sight. It is rediculous to expect or to think that any provider/parent/any other adult supervising a child can see and be witness to 100% of 100% of what each and every child does. And to say that "you do", it obsurd. The kids in my care have had front teeth knocked out at age 21 mo, a 4 yr old was shut in a dryer by his 22 mo old brother, 11 stitches were put in a 3 yr olds forehead, I could go on and on,,,,,,but, never under my watch, always under the watch of the parents in their own home.

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I agree that we cannot see 100% of every single moment, that is impossible. FTR...I have never stated that I see 100% of everything....I have stated that we provide active, physical supervision. I have stated that there are two to three providers here at all times, actively and physically supervising.

There is a HUGE difference between being INSIDE while the children are OUTSIDE and not seeing 100% of everything and actually being OUTSIDE when the children are OUTSIDE and seeing 100% of everthing. If I am outside with the children, and not distracted by other things (baby) happening indoors, I am much more likely to catch them scaling the fence. THAT is why I advocate active, physical supervision.

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Just today was a story on the news and a good example of why children need supervision! A little boy in China managed to fall out a window between the security bars and was hanging there for 10 mins. trying to crawl back up before his mother came to help him. I think they said the police are the ones that alerted her to the problem when they showed up to her door.

You know apts. aren't that big! She probably thought he was playing in his room so why check on him.

This is one reason I don't take babies is because of the whole needing extra attention and not being able to be with the older children 100% of the time. I am with my children and always within sight of them when we are outside but that is the way I designed my yard. Everyone plays on the deck at the same time so that I can see them and then we are all down in the yard so that I can see them. Also, if a provider is unable to supervise at all times maybe age ranges need to be different or adjust the amount of children you watch.

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