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  #1  
Old 07-27-2015, 12:30 PM
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Exclamation 2.9 Year Old Problem Child Ran Away

I need advice. I've a 2 year 9 month girl in care who is giving my staff and me lots of concerns. First of all this child runs off any chance she can get. She figured out how to open the gate in the yard and runs away. She has never gotten beyond the driveway because my staff is very alert to her behavior. However, Friday she got out when a mom dropped off kids and left the gate open. I had 4 staff in the yard and no one saw her escape. She was gone for 20 mins before I found her in a neighbors yard playing with a dog. I almost had a heart attack. We've NEVER lost a kid. We've never had a kid try to run away. Our playground is awesome and fun but this kid loves to run.

When we told mom she just laughed and told us that she does this at home all the time. Once went in to a neighbors house and was playing in the neighbors kids rooms. No one was home only way they found her was because front door was open. She just didn't seem concerned her kid was missing for 20 mins.

We've thought about locking the gate but feel this is unsafe to lock everyone in basically a cage with a padlock. I'm not sure what else to do to assure she never escapes again. Short of just leashing her to a staff member.

Also, recently she's started freaking, hysterical every time we change her diaper and have to wipe her bottom. She screams, "owie owie" and it basically takes two of us to hold her down to get poo out. She also won't let us use an ear thermometer to check her temp.

She's only been in our care 2 months so we thought things would get better and she would clue into the routine. She's pretty non-verbal and just doesn't listen at all. She runs around the room all day. She never just sits and plays with toys. She's such a sweetie and loves hugs and snuggles. We don't want to give up on her but at what point do you? We've worked on learning the word STOP but she still isn't getting it. I just am afraid she's going to get lose again.
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Old 07-27-2015, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Ambrocia View Post
I need advice. I've a 2 year 9 month girl in care who is giving my staff and me lots of concerns. First of all this child runs off any chance she can get. She figured out how to open the gate in the yard and runs away. She has never gotten beyond the driveway because my staff is very alert to her behavior. However, Friday she got out when a mom dropped off kids and left the gate open. I had 4 staff in the yard and no one saw her escape. She was gone for 20 mins before I found her in a neighbors yard playing with a dog. I almost had a heart attack. We've NEVER lost a kid. We've never had a kid try to run away. Our playground is awesome and fun but this kid loves to run.

When we told mom she just laughed and told us that she does this at home all the time. Once went in to a neighbors house and was playing in the neighbors kids rooms. No one was home only way they found her was because front door was open. She just didn't seem concerned her kid was missing for 20 mins.

We've thought about locking the gate but feel this is unsafe to lock everyone in basically a cage with a padlock. I'm not sure what else to do to assure she never escapes again. Short of just leashing her to a staff member.

Also, recently she's started freaking, hysterical every time we change her diaper and have to wipe her bottom. She screams, "owie owie" and it basically takes two of us to hold her down to get poo out. She also won't let us use an ear thermometer to check her temp.

She's only been in our care 2 months so we thought things would get better and she would clue into the routine. She's pretty non-verbal and just doesn't listen at all. She runs around the room all day. She never just sits and plays with toys. She's such a sweetie and loves hugs and snuggles. We don't want to give up on her but at what point do you? We've worked on learning the word STOP but she still isn't getting it. I just am afraid she's going to get lose again.
I'm sorry but I have no other advice other than to terminate services for this child.

WAY too many risks involved in caring for her and the fact that mom laughs about it.. No way. I simply would not be willing to put that much time and effort into a child when the parent isn't willing to do anything to support or advise you in regards to her child.
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Old 07-27-2015, 12:44 PM
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I would term also. WAY to much liability. Mom will not be laughing when she gets out and gets hit by a car, bit by a dog, etc. Mom will be suing you and the state will shut you down. Terminate NOW. The money you are making on her is not worth what it will cost you.
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Old 07-27-2015, 12:45 PM
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I'm sorry but I have no other advice other than to terminate services for this child.

WAY too many risks involved in caring for her and the fact that mom laughs about it.. No way. I simply would not be willing to put that much time and effort into a child when the parent isn't willing to do anything to support or advise you in regards to her child.
agreed!

Unfortunately, this child is a huge liability for your business. Please be sure to document, document.

I WOULD put a padlock on the gate, though. Parents should come in through the building, not through the gate. It's not a "jail", it's a playground full of toys.

As for the "owie, owie", she should be seen by a doctor, perhaps. Maybe she has an infection? I'd insist on a doctor's visit if you do keep her.
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Old 07-27-2015, 12:46 PM
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When she was missing for so long, how did you handle it? Did you call 911? Has this been reported to your licensing analyst if you are licensed?

20 minutes is a LONG time to be missing without calling emergency services, IMO.

You say Mom laughed it off, but I can almost guarantee that when/if you decide to term services, she won't be laughing anymore and will likely contact the appropriate authorities to report it (licensing or whomever oversees child care services). Best to be one step ahead and self-report it.
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Old 07-27-2015, 01:52 PM
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When she was missing for so long, how did you handle it? Did you call 911? Has this been reported to your licensing analyst if you are licensed?

20 minutes is a LONG time to be missing without calling emergency services, IMO.

You say Mom laughed it off, but I can almost guarantee that when/if you decide to term services, she won't be laughing anymore and will likely contact the appropriate authorities to report it (licensing or whomever oversees child care services). Best to be one step ahead and self-report it.
Absolutely! A LOT can happen in 20 minutes. I would not even hesitate at this point to put a lock on that gate if you keep her. Me personally I would be DONE. This could cost you your career. One child is not worth losing everything for. It WILL happen again, the second you take your eyes off her, and the next time could be worse
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Old 07-27-2015, 02:20 PM
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what i can see that really bothers me is the mothers response.

NO way would I be ok with a parent having that reaction and i would have termed on the spot.

I once had a child spit on one of my staff face. Child was 4. I called immediately for pick up an when the dad came, dad thought it was no big deal and dck does it all the time.

NO FREAKING WAY! if you and a parent are not on the same page no matter what the issue is, it's never going to work out.

Mom should have taken this seriously and it should have been reported to the mother that it is so serious that you have to report it to licensing.

The pure fact that the child has this issue is one thing, but the fact that the mom is not on the same page about keeping her child safe while in your care is just the final straw.

I would term now before this child hurts herself or brings a friend along with her for one of her disappearing acts.
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Old 07-27-2015, 02:26 PM
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I'd definitely term this one. I would also install a latch that is out of children's reach on the gate. It shouldn't be easy enough for a child to operate so quickly that no one notices.
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Old 07-27-2015, 02:36 PM
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I'd definitely term this one. I would also install a latch that is out of children's reach on the gate. It shouldn't be easy enough for a child to operate so quickly that no one notices.
I agree, but what about your fire clearance? Here in my state I would not be able to do that. Can't trap kids into any area. They must be able to get out on their own.. Scary thought, but that's why you need parents to support the rules in your program.
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Old 07-27-2015, 02:39 PM
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I rarely term, but I'm in agreement with the majority here. The biggest red flag for me here is that the parent is not concerned. The parent SHOULD be up in arms about this. Her child was missing for 20 minutes. So much could have happened.

It concerns me a lot that parent was so lax about it. My last parent that was so lax about her "runaway" turned out to be an accomplice. When I worked for a center, I had a parent who was coaching her child to run away from school. The short version of the very sad story is that mom was hoping the child would get injured so she could sue. Her plan was discovered by staff and the mom was turned in to protective services.

I would not keep a runner unless parents were concerned and 100% on board with working on it. There is so much risk involved. There are strategies for prevention, and eliminating the behavior. If parents agree to work on it, you can message me for more information.
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Old 07-27-2015, 02:44 PM
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I agree, but what about your fire clearance? Here in my state I would not be able to do that. Can't trap kids into any area. They must be able to get out on their own.. Scary thought, but that's why you need parents to support the rules in your program.
Yes, I can see that, in states that have that rule.
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Old 07-27-2015, 02:50 PM
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this reminds me of MV's post about her missing child....Oh dear old that is a scary thought.

Maybe OP you should read that so you too can really understand the seriousness of this matter. I am sure you already understand, but this might get you to light that fire to term. Let me find it so I can share with you the thread of another member that had a child go missing from her daycare.
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Old 07-27-2015, 03:20 PM
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this reminds me of MV's post about her missing child....Oh dear old that is a scary thought.

Maybe OP you should read that so you too can really understand the seriousness of this matter. I am sure you already understand, but this might get you to light that fire to term. Let me find it so I can share with you the thread of another member that had a child go missing from her daycare.
Yes this. OP, you really should pm MV for advice on the s@@t storm that is likely coming your way from licensing. I'm sorry this happened to you.

20 minutes is an insanely LONG TIME to not notice a child is missing.
Fix your gate immediately. Not tomorrow, right now. Install a new latch. Get a contact alarm on the gate and all doors.

I'm not so sure I'd rush to terminate the child. Yes, she is a liability, but honestly, your staff's failure to notice she was gone and your lack of security is a bigger liability. I'd be inclined to terminare the staff involved as well.
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Old 07-27-2015, 03:27 PM
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I am more concerned with the fact that a child was able to get away and for 20 MINUTES!! Thatís ridiculous and a huge fail on the daycareís part! I just do not quite believe that was the motherís reaction, however, it very well couldíve been. Most certainly would not have been mine. I wouldíve termed myself right then, called licensing, and put a review about it on any site that asks for a review on that daycare. Again, that is just ridiculous! -It is coming off (to me) as if it is being made the parentís or childís fault that she ran away, it is 100% the staffís fault. If a child can get away like that and for that long then OBVIOUSLY no one is watching her as they should be.
There are lots of child proof latches, door knobs, etc out there that can and should be used, for reasons such as this.
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Old 07-27-2015, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by spedmommy4 View Post
I rarely term, but I'm in agreement with the majority here. The biggest red flag for me here is that the parent is not concerned. The parent SHOULD be up in arms about this. Her child was missing for 20 minutes. So much could have happened.

It concerns me a lot that parent was so lax about it. My last parent that was so lax about her "runaway" turned out to be an accomplice. When I worked for a center, I had a parent who was coaching her child to run away from school. The short version of the very sad story is that mom was hoping the child would get injured so she could sue. Her plan was discovered by staff and the mom was turned in to protective services.

I would not keep a runner unless parents were concerned and 100% on board with working on it. There is so much risk involved. There are strategies for prevention, and eliminating the behavior. If parents agree to work on it, you can message me for more information.
I'm not really buying that the mom "laughed it off". I'd flip out. Who wouldn't? Seriously! "Oh your child was lost for 20 minutes"........I can't envision inserting a casual motherly laugh here. Doesn't compute.
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Old 07-27-2015, 04:14 PM
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I'm not really buying that the mom "laughed it off". I'd flip out. Who wouldn't? Seriously! "Oh your child was lost for 20 minutes"........I can't envision inserting a casual motherly laugh here. Doesn't compute.
With some of the things I've seen from parents, I'd buy that story. True, most parents would flip out, but I've had parents who either don't care or think it's funny/cute when their children misbehave for other people.

The fact that she was missing for 20 minutes almost concerned me more. At my center, we're required to do a head count at least every ten minutes when we're outside.

Would a child-proof latch be legal in your state? Or what about a combination lock and you could give the code to all your staff and parents?

I would also send a letter home and remind parents to make sure they close the gate behind them.
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Old 07-27-2015, 04:32 PM
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Yes this. OP, you really should pm MV for advice on the s@@t storm that is likely coming your way from licensing. I'm sorry this happened to you.

20 minutes is an insanely LONG TIME to not notice a child is missing.
Fix your gate immediately. Not tomorrow, right now. Install a new latch. Get a contact alarm on the gate and all doors.

I'm not so sure I'd rush to terminate the child. Yes, she is a liability, but honestly, your staff's failure to notice she was gone and your lack of security is a bigger liability. I'd be inclined to terminare the staff involved as well.
This.
Moms reaction is meaningless to me. This happened on your watch, mom wasn't there and it wasn't her responsibility. According to your op, you knew she was a runner. The time to have termed was the first few times it happened (even though you caught it right away) and you realized she was a runner.
I'm sorry it happened but I agree with Sugar, you need to make changes NOW.
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Old 07-27-2015, 05:01 PM
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Yes this. OP, you really should pm MV for advice on the s@@t storm that is likely coming your way from licensing. I'm sorry this happened to you.

20 minutes is an insanely LONG TIME to not notice a child is missing.
Fix your gate immediately. Not tomorrow, right now. Install a new latch. Get a contact alarm on the gate and all doors.

I'm not so sure I'd rush to terminate the child. Yes, she is a liability, but honestly, your staff's failure to notice she was gone and your lack of security is a bigger liability. I'd be inclined to terminare the staff involved as well.
I agree. I was just wondering how FOUR staff members were present and not one noticed her run out of the gate. I did read the OP as saying it took 20 minutes to find her, not that she had actually been gone and unnoticed for 20 minutes, but regardless, 20 minutes is a long time to be missing and she had to have been gone for some time prior to being noticed or she would not havemade it as far as she did.
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Old 07-27-2015, 05:03 PM
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I think MV's post was in the private section, so you probably can't post the link for that conversation. But she may not mind pm'ing and sharing her story
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Old 07-27-2015, 06:05 PM
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I always use a latch for the gate into the playyard.Usually there is a whole under the latch .I used a easy to open for adults but hard for children. Accidents can happen so quickly I would not let this child out of sight.An adult should shadow her if you are keeping her.I also had a seperate play space for infants a pen 3 sets wide with a small slide and toys maybe that could be used.
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Old 07-27-2015, 10:12 PM
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Sorry I couldn't help but notice that you said you had 4 staff plus yourself, how many kids do you have in your care?
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Old 07-28-2015, 06:05 AM
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I agree that I would term due the parent's reaction.

Regardless, if your fence is chain link maybe install a top latch. Something like this. If you want to buy local and the hardware stores don't have them, check with a pool store or a fence company. They should have them.
http://www.amazon.com/Residential-Ch.../dp/B0012ZX15S
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Old 07-28-2015, 06:14 AM
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The lock I have used is a double end bolt snap.Really simple just hooks onto the handle of both gates. Adults easily can unhook kids not.
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Old 07-28-2015, 01:08 PM
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First, sorry that happened. How scary! Second, good job telling parent (cover butt).
Third, refer her for evaluation, obviously underlying issues and she needs 1/1, hopefully family can get subsidy to pay for that.
I strongly disagree with the push to terminat. I feel she deserves to be cared for not passed off for challenges. I care for exceptional children and you can put a driveway alarm by gate. It will alert (very loud if someone passes it).
Hope you can help this child.
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Old 07-28-2015, 02:54 PM
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First, sorry that happened. How scary! Second, good job telling parent (cover butt).
Third, refer her for evaluation, obviously underlying issues and she needs 1/1, hopefully family can get subsidy to pay for that.
I strongly disagree with the push to terminat. I feel she deserves to be cared for not passed off for challenges. I care for exceptional children and you can put a driveway alarm by gate. It will alert (very loud if someone passes it).
Hope you can help this child.
I would have to term. I am the only adult here, and can't have something like that happen, it would shut me down. This child would require her own adult, and I doubt the parents would pay for that. I care about children, but I have to take care of my family and my children first, I can't do that with a liability like this one. The child needs to go somewhere where there is more staff and more safety measures. Not all children can be cared for in normal group care properly.
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Old 07-29-2015, 07:48 AM
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I am more concerned with the fact that a child was able to get away and for 20 MINUTES!! Thatís ridiculous and a huge fail on the daycareís part! I just do not quite believe that was the motherís reaction, however, it very well couldíve been. Most certainly would not have been mine. I wouldíve termed myself right then, called licensing, and put a review about it on any site that asks for a review on that daycare. Again, that is just ridiculous! -It is coming off (to me) as if it is being made the parentís or childís fault that she ran away, it is 100% the staffís fault. If a child can get away like that and for that long then OBVIOUSLY no one is watching her as they should be.
There are lots of child proof latches, door knobs, etc out there that can and should be used, for reasons such as this.
I totally agree with this. As a parent, I would be livid if my child was gone for 20 min. And no one called the police. I would have left that daycare facility immediately and never returned. And I'm shocked that a parent would have had the reaction described! I know of no parent that would have laughed at the news that their kid was gone for 20 min!
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Old 07-29-2015, 07:52 AM
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I agree that the child should not have been able to get away, but with the parent's attitude about it, it almost seems it is an allowed game at home that the child brought to daycare. That is the part where I blame the parent. If in fact the parent laughed it off and stated it happens at home all the time, then the parent is also at fault, because they have been allowing this to happen.
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Old 07-29-2015, 09:53 AM
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I agree that the child should not have been able to get away, but with the parent's attitude about it, it almost seems it is an allowed game at home that the child brought to daycare. That is the part where I blame the parent. If in fact the parent laughed it off and stated it happens at home all the time, then the parent is also at fault, because they have been allowing this to happen.
I totally get what you are saying, and its definitely unacceptable for this behavior to be allowed or encouraged at home, this did not happen at home. This happened under the watch of the provider. 4 staff members failed to provide adequate supervision. Period. The center did not have appropriate security in the form of a secure latch or motion sensor alarms. The staff member in charge of this child should absolutely be terminated. The center needs immediate security upgrades. I don't think it's fair to put this entirely on the parents. This child should have been terminated before this happened.

This post really bothers me. Everything from the lack of supervision of a child with a KNOWN history of escape attempts, police NOT being called, (we don't even know if the OP self reported this to licensing), the mom's alleged response, the lack of proper latches, to the OP implying it's the parents fault somehow. We are here to give advice, and my advice is for the center to accept responsibility and make immediate changes in staff and security. Had something serious or even deadly happened to this child, we'd all be wringing our hands and lamenting a tragedy that could have easily been prevented. Personally, I'm making sure head counts are done more often outside, checking my latches and making sure my contact alarms have fresh batteries.
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Old 07-30-2015, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia View Post
I totally get what you are saying, and its definitely unacceptable for this behavior to be allowed or encouraged at home, this did not happen at home. This happened under the watch of the provider. 4 staff members failed to provide adequate supervision. Period. The center did not have appropriate security in the form of a secure latch or motion sensor alarms. The staff member in charge of this child should absolutely be terminated. The center needs immediate security upgrades. I don't think it's fair to put this entirely on the parents. This child should have been terminated before this happened.

This post really bothers me. Everything from the lack of supervision of a child with a KNOWN history of escape attempts, police NOT being called, (we don't even know if the OP self reported this to licensing), the mom's alleged response, the lack of proper latches, to the OP implying it's the parents fault somehow. We are here to give advice, and my advice is for the center to accept responsibility and make immediate changes in staff and security. Had something serious or even deadly happened to this child, we'd all be wringing our hands and lamenting a tragedy that could have easily been prevented. Personally, I'm making sure head counts are done more often outside, checking my latches and making sure my contact alarms have fresh batteries.

exactly my thoughts
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Old 08-02-2015, 10:16 AM
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I totally get what you are saying, and its definitely unacceptable for this behavior to be allowed or encouraged at home, this did not happen at home. This happened under the watch of the provider. 4 staff members failed to provide adequate supervision. Period. The center did not have appropriate security in the form of a secure latch or motion sensor alarms. The staff member in charge of this child should absolutely be terminated. The center needs immediate security upgrades. I don't think it's fair to put this entirely on the parents. This child should have been terminated before this happened.

This post really bothers me. Everything from the lack of supervision of a child with a KNOWN history of escape attempts, police NOT being called, (we don't even know if the OP self reported this to licensing), the mom's alleged response, the lack of proper latches, to the OP implying it's the parents fault somehow. We are here to give advice, and my advice is for the center to accept responsibility and make immediate changes in staff and security. Had something serious or even deadly happened to this child, we'd all be wringing our hands and lamenting a tragedy that could have easily been prevented. Personally, I'm making sure head counts are done more often outside, checking my latches and making sure my contact alarms have fresh batteries.
You hit the nail on the head, Robin. This is 100% the responsibility of the op and her staff. She knew the child was a runner and didn't take the proper precautions to keep the child safe, either with locks, posting staff at the gate, alarms that sound when a gate opens, etc. If she felt it was beyond her capacity to take these extra steps, then she should've let the child go a long time ago. You cannot blame a kid for being curious, adventurous, etc, nor can you blame a parent for their child escaping when the parent wasn't even there and the staff KNEW she was a runner. Even if it's allowed to some degree at home, that doesn't make it ok to not take preventative measures to keep the child safe at daycare. If the child is allowed to climb the fence at home, do we allow it at daycare? If the child eats chocolate cake for breakfast at home, do we allow that too? Just because one thing is acceptable or "no big deal" at home, doesn't mean we allow it (or allow it passively because we didn't do anything to prevent it) at daycare. When cps shows up to investigate, will they be like "ohhhh it's allowed at home so you allowed it to happen here? Well, that's a different ballgame then. We'll just be on our way..." Absolutely not. They care about what the center does, what precautions they take, who was in charge of the child at the time of the incident, if the center is providing adequate supervision and safety, etc.
And frankly, I'm a little disturbed at the amount of people here who would place the blame on the child/parent and would term the child because of the staff's and the management's negligence.
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Old 08-02-2015, 12:27 PM
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You hit the nail on the head, Robin. This is 100% the responsibility of the op and her staff. She knew the child was a runner and didn't take the proper precautions to keep the child safe, either with locks, posting staff at the gate, alarms that sound when a gate opens, etc. If she felt it was beyond her capacity to take these extra steps, then she should've let the child go a long time ago. You cannot blame a kid for being curious, adventurous, etc, nor can you blame a parent for their child escaping when the parent wasn't even there and the staff KNEW she was a runner. Even if it's allowed to some degree at home, that doesn't make it ok to not take preventative measures to keep the child safe at daycare. If the child is allowed to climb the fence at home, do we allow it at daycare? If the child eats chocolate cake for breakfast at home, do we allow that too? Just because one thing is acceptable or "no big deal" at home, doesn't mean we allow it (or allow it passively because we didn't do anything to prevent it) at daycare. When cps shows up to investigate, will they be like "ohhhh it's allowed at home so you allowed it to happen here? Well, that's a different ballgame then. We'll just be on our way..." Absolutely not. They care about what the center does, what precautions they take, who was in charge of the child at the time of the incident, if the center is providing adequate supervision and safety, etc.
And frankly, I'm a little disturbed at the amount of people here who would place the blame on the child/parent and would term the child because of the staff's and the management's negligence.
While I agree with you that the child should have been more supervised, and there should be more safety measures in place, I would still term. To me a parent that acts like it is no big deal and allows something so serious at home is a parent I see as a liability to work with. IF the incident was reported (which I doubt was done) the daycare may very well be closed down over it. Perhaps they should be, I wasn't there so I don't know. But I won't work with a parent who has such a lax attitude about something so major.
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Old 08-02-2015, 06:16 PM
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While I agree with you that the child should have been more supervised, and there should be more safety measures in place, I would still term. To me a parent that acts like it is no big deal and allows something so serious at home is a parent I see as a liability to work with. IF the incident was reported (which I doubt was done) the daycare may very well be closed down over it. Perhaps they should be, I wasn't there so I don't know. But I won't work with a parent who has such a lax attitude about something so major.
I agree with that thrifty. I believe there are two totally separate issues in the original post. I think I focused so much on the blatant lack of supervision and/or preventative measures on the part of the daycare staff that I overlooked the issues with the parent. A disregard for the child's safety and a lack of any attempts by the parent to correct the behavior could be grounds for terming. Parents and caregivers HAVE to be a united team in order for the relationship to be successful. It sounds like that's not the case at all for the op.

However, whether the parent was on board with correcting the behavior and responding appropriately or acting the way she did, like it's no big deal, this situation ultimately fell on the staff as a serious mistake.
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Old 08-03-2015, 05:43 AM
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I just love how all you feel its okay to reprimand this provider for coming here and asking for help on what to do about this situation before it does get worse and how she should handle things moving forward verses showing her the same support and helpfulness that you all poured out to MarinaVanessa who actually DID lose a child. Talk about a double standard.
OP, i would terminate this child too because if she did figure out how to run off, you'd be crucified by these ladies and not given one ounce of understanding or helpfulness that MarinaVanessa got. Apparently most these ladies are perfect and couldnt imagine things happening under their watch. I totally understand now why some providers cover things up and do some of the things they do. If your own collegues cant help you make changes for the future so that you can have preventative measures in place, which is what i thought you were asking, then we're all in this alone.
Im sorry this happened to you and even more sorry that you probably wont be back here. I hope you are able to figure out what to do.
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Old 08-03-2015, 06:19 AM
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I just love how all you feel its okay to reprimand this provider for coming here and asking for help on what to do about this situation before it does get worse and how she should handle things moving forward verses showing her the same support and helpfulness that you all poured out to MarinaVanessa who actually DID lose a child. Talk about a double standard.
OP, i would terminate this child too because if she did figure out how to run off, you'd be crucified by these ladies and not given one ounce of understanding or helpfulness that MarinaVanessa got. Apparently most these ladies are perfect and couldnt imagine things happening under their watch. I totally understand now why some providers cover things up and do some of the things they do. If your own collegues cant help you make changes for the future so that you can have preventative measures in place, which is what i thought you were asking, then we're all in this alone.
Im sorry this happened to you and even more sorry that you probably wont be back here. I hope you are able to figure out what to do.
Um, the OP DID lose a child. The child was gone for 20 minutes (according to the OP) and they couldn't find her. Sounds "lost" to me.

The difference between the OP and MV?

MarinaVanessa did everything RIGHT when it happened to her. Her dck wasn't a known runner (unlike the OP). When she realized she was missing (ie: off property), she called the police to assist with the search and self reported to licensing (unlike the OP). She didn't blame the parents for something that happened on her watch (unlike the OP). She immediately had a door alarm installed(unlike the OP). She worked out a plan to ensure it never happened again. Basically she "providered up" and behaved like the professional she is and took her lumps.
When it happened to MV, she was the one saying "*I* should have done this or that better" rather than pointing fingers and parent blaming.

I also want to point out that MV, like most of us, runs her day care herself. According to the OP FOUR staff members were there and had no idea where the child was. Not that it's ever okay to lose a child, but in my mind the reason one has additional staff is so things like bathroom and lunch breaks are covered and kids are never left out of sight.

No one is perfect and we all get things wrong at times. But I felt most of the replies here were pretty gently worded with a lot of great advice given.
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Old 08-03-2015, 06:24 AM
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I just love how all you feel its okay to reprimand this provider for coming here and asking for help on what to do about this situation before it does get worse and how she should handle things moving forward verses showing her the same support and helpfulness that you all poured out to MarinaVanessa who actually DID lose a child. Talk about a double standard.
OP, i would terminate this child too because if she did figure out how to run off, you'd be crucified by these ladies and not given one ounce of understanding or helpfulness that MarinaVanessa got. Apparently most these ladies are perfect and couldnt imagine things happening under their watch. I totally understand now why some providers cover things up and do some of the things they do. If your own collegues cant help you make changes for the future so that you can have preventative measures in place, which is what i thought you were asking, then we're all in this alone.
Im sorry this happened to you and even more sorry that you probably wont be back here. I hope you are able to figure out what to do.
Actually, the OP DID lose the child for 20 minutes. OP knew the potential issue, the child is TWO, and there were multiple staff people.

I did not see anyone "crucifying" here. They did call her out a bit; but they also advised her to take corrective action by installing better security, increasing supervision, and possible termination. All these things the other provider did immediately, btw. She also came on here an completely blamed herself; not the child or the parent.

In her case, the child (who was 5, not 2) was left in a nearby room while the provider(who worked alone) was attending to personal needs.

I would also have to term this child. It's not the child's fault, but she would just be too great a liability for me.
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Old 08-03-2015, 06:31 AM
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Um, the OP DID lose a child. The child was gone for 20 minutes (according to the OP) and they couldn't find her. Sounds "lost" to me.

The difference between the OP and MV?

MarinaVanessa did everything RIGHT when it happened to her. Her dck wasn't a known runner (unlike the OP). When she realized she was missing (ie: off property), she called the police to assist with the search and self reported to licensing (unlike the OP). She didn't blame the parents for something that happened on her watch (unlike the OP). She immediately had a door alarm installed(unlike the OP). She worked out a plan to ensure it never happened again. Basically she "providered up" and behaved like the professional she is and took her lumps.
When it happened to MV, she was the one saying "*I* should have done this or that better" rather than pointing fingers and parent blaming.

I also want to point out that MV, like most of us, runs her day care herself. According to the OP FOUR staff members were there and had no idea where the child was. Not that it's ever okay to lose a child, but in my mind the reason one has additional staff is so things like bathroom and lunch breaks are covered and kids are never left out of sight.

No one is perfect and we all get things wrong at times. But I felt most of the replies here were pretty gently worded with a lot of great advice given.
The OP didn't lose the child. Her staff did. I agree with the unregistered poster. The OP came here looking for advice on how to fix the issue so she could prevent it from happening again and was basically called a liar when she posted that the mother didn't care and laughed about it.

We also do not know if OP self-reported or not. We don't know if she did or didn't do everything right or wrong, we ONLY know what she told us. We don't know all the details. Just like with MV. We only know what she told us.

It's never okay to lose a child. Ever. But I won't point fingers when I don't know the environment, the staff, the provider, the child or anything other than what we are told in a post and I refuse to lambaste a provider for asking for help.

I feel it's akin to scolding a drowning person before tossing them a life preserver.

There are a few other points I will disagree with but I do agree with the unregistered poster.

Losing a child is unacceptable but if no one ever tries to help providers, ESPECIALLY newer, less experienced providers how are they ever going to learn anything? Instead, they are driven off of forum boards that are there to "educate" them and help them brainstorm ideas, tips and tricks in which they can use to prevent things from happening again.

Now if the OP said it has happened a couple times before, then I understand but she came here the FIRST time in hopes of finding a solution to her problem. Which I think it a good thing. Well, was a good thing... it's obviously not a resource for her anymore

I suggested termination and I stand by what I said because if she continues to care for this child WITHOUT the support of the parent and without the tools to move forward then its a tragedy just waiting to happen.
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Old 08-03-2015, 06:39 AM
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In her case, the child (who was 5, not 2) was left in a nearby room while the provider(who worked alone) was attending to personal needs.
I don't think saying one provider was working alone is a valid excuse to differentiate between the two situations.

In my eyes, a child was lost. Period.

Comparing the two as in who did what right or wrong is pointless as the OP in this thread never came back to tell us what she did or didn't do.

I also don't think that coming here and "blaming" yourself for what happened is an automatic excusal for what did happen. Yet, she got a ton of support.

OP didn't get any of that and that makes me sad because we (readers/posters) don't know the whole story. Had she had access to a private area, she may have told a different story. Who knows...

Too many missing details and too many double standards in my opinion.
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Old 08-03-2015, 06:48 AM
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I said that mom's reaction was meaningless to me, and I stand by that. Not that it didn't happen, but because often parents don't realize that things are a much bigger deal when they happen at day care, KWIM? So mom may have very well laughed it off. I know there have been times doing dc where I've had to say point blank to parents " this is a BIG deal and may well cause me to end providing care!" but until I lay it out, they don't realize it's not normal or a big deal.

I will say that my that the majority of the posts responding to the OP were "with" the OP especially some of the first replies.
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Old 08-03-2015, 06:57 AM
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I just quickly went through and read the whole thread.

There were some questions, but I don't really see any bashing or accusations.

The OP hasn't come back to update which would be helpful. I don't see any reply (with the exception of some of the unregistered posters) that are really attacking the OP

You're right that we don't know what the OP did, and that would help clarify things.
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Old 08-03-2015, 10:44 AM
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I just love how all you feel its okay to reprimand this provider for coming here and asking for help on what to do about this situation before it does get worse and how she should handle things moving forward verses showing her the same support and helpfulness that you all poured out to MarinaVanessa who actually DID lose a child. Talk about a double standard.
OP, i would terminate this child too because if she did figure out how to run off, you'd be crucified by these ladies and not given one ounce of understanding or helpfulness that MarinaVanessa got. Apparently most these ladies are perfect and couldnt imagine things happening under their watch. I totally understand now why some providers cover things up and do some of the things they do. If your own collegues cant help you make changes for the future so that you can have preventative measures in place, which is what i thought you were asking, then we're all in this alone.
Im sorry this happened to you and even more sorry that you probably wont be back here. I hope you are able to figure out what to do.
Many of us did not "reprimand" her. Many of us offered advice. Regardless of what happened, it is NOT okay to loose a child. To much can happen in such a short time. But sadly, it does happen from time to time no matter how careful we are. To me, this child is a liability because this child sees this as a game apparently, so if you keep the child in care you have been put on notice and are accepting that you have to keep an eye on this child EVERY SECOND. If you can't do that, then you can't continue care.

I don't see that as being rude or bashing the OP, I see it as the truth. Mostly the people who are rude or nasty in any way on this board are unregistered. And many of them only come here to start trouble it seems.
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Old 08-03-2015, 11:13 AM
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Many of us did not "reprimand" her. Many of us offered advice. Regardless of what happened, it is NOT okay to loose a child. To much can happen in such a short time. But sadly, it does happen from time to time no matter how careful we are. To me, this child is a liability because this child sees this as a game apparently, so if you keep the child in care you have been put on notice and are accepting that you have to keep an eye on this child EVERY SECOND. If you can't do that, then you can't continue care.

I don't see that as being rude or bashing the OP, I see it as the truth. Mostly the people who are rude or nasty in any way on this board are unregistered. And many of them only come here to start trouble it seems.
This is not the case in this situation ...... or they wouldn't have had any idea how MV was/wasn't treated.

Also, from my perspective.....the point she was making was how differently the two situations were handled with the provider that DID actually lose a child for MUCH longer than 20 minutes receiving support, understanding and a much different approach then this OP received.

I personally don't think unreg was condoning anyone losing a child.
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Old 08-03-2015, 11:24 AM
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I stand firm in my opinion. I'm not bashing anyone, I'm simply saying that the OP and her staff DROPPED THE BALL in a big , serious and potentially life threatening way. When it comes to the safety of children, I see certain things as non negotiable, like providing direct supervision at all times. Its that simple. BC is correct in that we don't really know if the parent laughed it off. As a parent, I certainly wouldn't be laughing, and that's my opinion. Would anyone here laugh it off? Not calling her a "liar", just find it hard to believe. Period.

Go back and look at the title of the post. "problem child ran away". ...... I am sure she is difficult, but the problem was not tbe child, it was failed security. I'm willing to bet tbe op HAS come back and not liked my response and others. Not liking the advice she was given is her problem, not mine. Safety first, supervision at all times, head counts and secured doors and latches. I don't see that as lambasting. I DO see that as advise.

And since MV's post was private, I'm pretty sure the unregistered post was from someone who is actually a long time member as well. I'm not going to hide my opinions behind unregistered. Sorry. I try to be as diplomatic as possible, but sometimes, when serious safety breeches are posted, it bothers me to my core. And I will continue to speak up, especially on serious safety issues. I'm not perfect and don't pretend to be, but gosh darn it, safety first. And no, this wouldn't have happened at my center.
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Old 08-03-2015, 11:34 AM
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I stand firm in my opinion. I'm not bashing anyone, I'm simply saying that the OP and her staff DROPPED THE BALL in a big , serious and potentially life threatening way. When it comes to the safety of children, I see certain things as non negotiable, like providing direct supervision at all times. Its that simple. BC is correct in that we don't really know if the parent laughed it off. As a parent, I certainly wouldn't be laughing, and that's my opinion. Would anyone here laugh it off? Not calling her a "liar", just find it hard to believe. Period.

Go back and look at the title of the post. "problem child ran away". ...... I am sure she is difficult, but the problem was not tbe child, it was failed security. I'm willing to bet tbe op HAS come back and not liked my response and others. Not liking the advice she was given is her problem, not mine. Safety first, supervision at all times, head counts and secured doors and latches. I don't see that as lambasting. I DO see that as advise.

And since MV's post was private, I'm pretty sure the unregistered post was from someone who is actually a long time member as well. I'm not going to hide my opinions behind unregistered. Sorry. I try to be as diplomatic as possible, but sometimes, when serious safety breeches are posted, it bothers me to my core. And I will continue to speak up, especially on serious safety issues. I'm not perfect and don't pretend to be, but gosh darn it, safety first. And no, this wouldn't have happened at my center.
But I think as a veteran provider, it's our responsibility to get as many details as we can before passing judgment.

Saying it wouldn't have happened at your center isn't at all helpful as I bet MV thought the same thing. I think that's a pretty bold statement to make and one that "says" to those it has or almost has happened to that they are somehow less than or not good providers. I think those kinds of statements can be very hurtful.

I think as veteran providers our first instinct is should be to help and support newish providers before we pass down judgment or opinions.

We've all been new at this. We've all learned things the hard way. Some lessons harder than others and some A LOT more important than others but we were still all NEW and unexperienced at one point.

Also, if you click on OPs profile you can see she has NOT logged in since 7/27...5 hours after she posted so again, we don't know if she read or didn't read anything beyond that.
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Old 08-03-2015, 11:38 AM
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And since MV's post was private, I'm pretty sure the unregistered post was from someone who is actually a long time member as well. I'm not going to hide my opinions behind unregistered. Sorry. I try to be as diplomatic as possible, but sometimes, when serious safety breeches are posted, it bothers me to my core. And I will continue to speak up, especially on serious safety issues. I'm not perfect and don't pretend to be, but gosh darn it, safety first. And no, this wouldn't have happened at my center.
You are correct but in some cases, stating things as unregistered can be MORE beneficial than posting under a user name as many of us already have preconceived notions or experiences with certain members and I would hate to have something I said be taken out of context or my point missed simply because I was the one that said it. kwim?

There are many times on this forum that I see advice given and no one pays much attention but then a veteran provider comes along and says the same thing and everyone suddenly takes what "veteran provider" said as the best advice ever..... as if no one else mentioned it at all.
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Old 08-03-2015, 11:51 AM
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Um, the OP DID lose a child. The child was gone for 20 minutes (according to the OP) and they couldn't find her. Sounds "lost" to me.

The difference between the OP and MV?

MarinaVanessa did everything RIGHT when it happened to her. Her dck wasn't a known runner (unlike the OP). When she realized she was missing (ie: off property), she called the police to assist with the search and self reported to licensing (unlike the OP). She didn't blame the parents for something that happened on her watch (unlike the OP). She immediately had a door alarm installed(unlike the OP). She worked out a plan to ensure it never happened again. Basically she "providered up" and behaved like the professional she is and took her lumps.
When it happened to MV, she was the one saying "*I* should have done this or that better" rather than pointing fingers and parent blaming.

I also want to point out that MV, like most of us, runs her day care herself. According to the OP FOUR staff members were there and had no idea where the child was. Not that it's ever okay to lose a child, but in my mind the reason one has additional staff is so things like bathroom and lunch breaks are covered and kids are never left out of sight.

No one is perfect and we all get things wrong at times. But I felt most of the replies here were pretty gently worded with a lot of great advice given.
Perfectly stated.
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Old 08-03-2015, 12:42 PM
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As some of you know, I had a misunderstanding here on the forum last year. I was very much a newbie to the forum, but I was hung out to dry and was made an example of. I had been here all of 4 months and was basically ostracized as a liar and banned from this forum for a week because of a simple "newbie" mistake I made. Yet this woman can LOSE A HUMAN BEING and she's getting pats on the back for comfort? I find that to utterly unbelievable.

Two corrections: this was not the child's first escape attempt. Op said that she had made it as far as the driveway in the past. The driveway where cars drive. Also, the op is no newbie in this business. She never said how long she'd been working with kids. She's new to this forum, but that's it. I wish I would've been given the same consideration as this poster, especially considering that my mistake was trivial compared to hers. So if the veterans are going to offer sage advice and kind words of wisdom to help fix mistakes made by the newbies here, I'm wondering why that doesn't apply to everyone. But I digress....

And sugar and playcare, I'm behind you 100%. This op needs a serious wake up call about the shortcomings at her center, not a gentle pat on the back. She's lucky she wasn't reported and shut down, at least not yet anyway.
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Old 08-03-2015, 12:46 PM
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As some of you know, I had a misunderstanding here on the forum last year. I was very much a newbie to the forum, but I was hung out to dry and was made an example of. I had been here all of 4 months and was basically ostracized as a liar and banned from this forum for a week because of a simple "newbie" mistake I made. Yet this woman can LOSE A HUMAN BEING and she's getting pats on the back for comfort? I find that to utterly unbelievable.

Two corrections: this was not the child's first escape attempt. Op said that she had made it as far as the driveway in the past. The driveway where cars drive. Also, the op is no newbie in this business. She never said how long she'd been working with kids. She's new to this forum, but that's it. I wish I would've been given the same consideration as this poster, especially considering that my mistake was trivial compared to hers. So if the veterans are going to offer sage advice and kind words of wisdom to help fix mistakes made by the newbies here, I'm wondering why that doesn't apply to everyone. But I digress....

And sugar and playcare, I'm behind you 100%. This op needs a serious wake up call about the shortcomings at her center, not a gentle pat on the back. She's lucky she wasn't reported and shut down, at least not yet anyway.
I would hardly classify the two situations as being even remotely similar
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Old 08-03-2015, 12:49 PM
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Also, the op is no newbie in this business. She never said how long she'd been working with kids. She's new to this forum, but that's it.
How do you know that?

I did a little looking back BEFORE I jumped to conclusions and saw that yes, she IS new to managing a child care.
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Old 08-03-2015, 04:55 PM
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But I think as a veteran provider, it's our responsibility to get as many details as we can before passing judgment.

Saying it wouldn't have happened at your center isn't at all helpful as I bet MV thought the same thing. I think that's a pretty bold statement to make and one that "says" to those it has or almost has happened to that they are somehow less than or not good providers. I think those kinds of statements can be very hurtful.

I think as veteran providers our first instinct is should be to help and support newish providers before we pass down judgment or opinions.

We've all been new at this. We've all learned things the hard way. Some lessons harder than others and some A LOT more important than others but we were still all NEW and unexperienced at one point.

Also, if you click on OPs profile you can see she has NOT logged in since 7/27...5 hours after she posted so again, we don't know if she read or didn't read anything beyond that.
Yep, it's a bold statement, and I stand by it. I have alarmed doors.I have a keypad entry. I have motion detectors on windows with sills below 3 feet. I have a secured latch on my gate that can only be opened from the outside, by an adult. My play yard is fully fenced and inspected daily. I even have a mirror mounted behind my shed so I can see back there at all times. I paid a lot of money for security upgrades. We are in a city center, so we take safety seriously. A child getting out a door would be on a ciry street, where there are buses, traffic from a major high school, a Ford dealership, a grocery store, a city park..... so yes, VERY serious business securing the facility properly.

Most importantly, my husband and I provide direct supervision. There are always two of us, 100 percent of the time. Sure, I prepare the lunches, we take bathroom breaks, he empties the trash. But nobody leaves a direct supervisory role without the other being aware and all children are accounted for and are within direct eyesight. We are the operators, the owners, the everything, so of course we protect our livelihood by making sure we follow ALL rules concerning direct supervision.

Am I saying all this to make some providers who had a close call feel bad? No. Am I saying this because I'm smug I've never "lost" a child? No. Hardly. I say these things in hopes it reaches someone who googles "safety precautions for daycare centers ". I didn't set out to hurt the OP's feelings. I cared about the safety of the child, not about my popularity here.
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  #50  
Old 08-03-2015, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
You are correct but in some cases, stating things as unregistered can be MORE beneficial than posting under a user name as many of us already have preconceived notions or experiences with certain members and I would hate to have something I said be taken out of context or my point missed simply because I was the one that said it. kwim?

There are many times on this forum that I see advice given and no one pays much attention but then a veteran provider comes along and says the same thing and everyone suddenly takes what "veteran provider" said as the best advice ever..... as if no one else mentioned it at all.
No, I do not know what you mean. No disrespect, I value your opinions and hard work as an admin and advisor here. I simply don't agree. And I agree with you a vast majority of the time. I see little value in posting unregistered. My opinion.
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  #51  
Old 08-03-2015, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
How do you know that?

I did a little looking back BEFORE I jumped to conclusions and saw that yes, she IS new to managing a child care.
Nowhere in her post did she indicate that she was new to childcare. But even being new doesn't excuse a lack of supervision. That's the backbone of this business, keeping the kids safe.
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  #52  
Old 08-03-2015, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia View Post
No, I do not know what you mean. No disrespect, I value your opinions and hard work as an admin and advisor here. I simply don't agree. And I agree with you a vast majority of the time. I see little value in posting unregistered. My opinion.
Posting unregistered, if you are a registered member and just don't want your name attached to your statement, is a cowardly thing to do. If you're gonna say it, you should claim it, imho. Even if your statement is an unpopular one.
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  #53  
Old 08-03-2015, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by NessaRose View Post
Posting unregistered, if you are a registered member and just don't want your name attached to your statement, is a cowardly thing to do. If you're gonna say it, you should claim it, imho. Even if your statement is an unpopular one.
I agree with you and yet I don't. Some things are sensitive so people want to remain anon. I get that. I myself put more weight on a post when someone says "registered poster but want to be anon for privacy". My main issue is that many of the unregistered seem to just want to stir up trouble and watch the pot boil. That I find cowardly.

Last edited by Thriftylady; 08-03-2015 at 05:53 PM. Reason: typo
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  #54  
Old 08-03-2015, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia View Post
Yep, it's a bold statement, and I stand by it. I have alarmed doors.I have a keypad entry. I have motion detectors on windows with sills below 3 feet. I have a secured latch on my gate that can only be opened from the outside, by an adult. My play yard is fully fenced and inspected daily. I even have a mirror mounted behind my shed so I can see back there at all times. I paid a lot of money for security upgrades. We are in a city center, so we take safety seriously. A child getting out a door would be on a ciry street, where there are buses, traffic from a major high school, a Ford dealership, a grocery store, a city park..... so yes, VERY serious business securing the facility properly.

Most importantly, my husband and I provide direct supervision. There are always two of us, 100 percent of the time. Sure, I prepare the lunches, we take bathroom breaks, he empties the trash. But nobody leaves a direct supervisory role without the other being aware and all children are accounted for and are within direct eyesight. We are the operators, the owners, the everything, so of course we protect our livelihood by making sure we follow ALL rules concerning direct supervision.

Am I saying all this to make some providers who had a close call feel bad? No. Am I saying this because I'm smug I've never "lost" a child? No. Hardly. I say these things in hopes it reaches someone who googles "safety precautions for daycare centers ". I didn't set out to hurt the OP's feelings. I cared about the safety of the child, not about my popularity here.
Im glad you have that confidence.
Its not common in my experience and I tend to be hyper aware of the possibility that things can happen no matter how safe I think I am. I am human and therefore dont feel its my right to gurantee something like that. I do the best I can and learn as the years go on and I gain experience, hindsight and knowledge. But I wont guarantee anything 100% other than to give and do my best.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia View Post
No, I do not know what you mean. No disrespect, I value your opinions and hard work as an admin and advisor here. I simply don't agree. And I agree with you a vast majority of the time. I see little value in posting unregistered. My opinion.
I wasn't asking you to agree. I was sharing a different viewpoint
Different perspectives are what make the world go round.

I dont take it personal.

As for posting as unregistered?
The same comments above apply.

Sugar~ I sincerely do not mean any of my comments as snarky or rude.
That is not my intention at all. We all feel strongly about things and I respect your/my/everyone's right to do so.
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  #55  
Old 08-03-2015, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Thriftylady View Post
I agree with you and yet I don't. Some things are sensitive so people want to remain anon. I get that. I myself put more weight on a post when someone says "registered poster but want to be anon for privacy". My main issue is that many of the unregistered seem to just want to stir up trouble and watch the pot boil. That I find cowardly.
That's what I mean thrifty. The pot stirrers. The ones who post unregistered so they can say hateful things without the backlash.
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  #56  
Old 08-05-2015, 07:45 PM
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The mother responded like that because she's not surprised. The child almost sounds Autistic from your description...
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  #57  
Old 08-08-2015, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by spedmommy4 View Post
I rarely term, but I'm in agreement with the majority here. The biggest red flag for me here is that the parent is not concerned. The parent SHOULD be up in arms about this. Her child was missing for 20 minutes. So much could have happened.

It concerns me a lot that parent was so lax about it. My last parent that was so lax about her "runaway" turned out to be an accomplice. When I worked for a center, I had a parent who was coaching her child to run away from school. The short version of the very sad story is that mom was hoping the child would get injured so she could sue. Her plan was discovered by staff and the mom was turned in to protective services.

I would not keep a runner unless parents were concerned and 100% on board with working on it. There is so much risk involved. There are strategies for prevention, and eliminating the behavior. If parents agree to work on it, you can message me for more information.
Some parents only see dollar signs. Something like that happened when I used to work at a hs. The mom also told the child to run into the kitchen, because her mother (the grandmother of the child) worked there. The child was moved to another hs and the grandmother was fired.
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