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Unregistered 06:34 PM 07-29-2010
What are your thoughts on this situation...

My daycare provider is friends with a past acquaintance of mine. This past acquaintance has issues with me because I had mentioned to her significant other that she was seeing someone else.
That being said I don't feel comfortable with this past acquaintance being around my daughter at daycare. As I was leaving after picking my daughter up today I noticed past acquaintances car at my daycare providers house. I'm not sure how to handle this or if it is even something I can have a concern with??
Pammie 03:49 AM 07-30-2010
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I'm not sure how to handle this or if it is even something I can have a concern with??
Well you obviously CAN have a concern because you're asking for advice.

However, from a provider's perspective, she can have anyone visit her home that she wishes (providing that person isn't an escaped felon or registered sex offender). Bottom line is it's her home and her business - you are a client not her boss who would be able to dictate who she can have in her home during her business hours.

If you're not comfortable with this person at her home while your child is in her care, and you don't trust your provider to protect/provide your child with the highest quality of care regardless of who else is there, then you need to remove your child permanently and find other daycare arrangements.
DWTC 05:30 AM 07-30-2010
Thanks for responding Pammie!

I understand that I am not her boss, that's why I am trying to get an opinion from someone else. I trust my daycare provider, I just don't trust the visitor. If she has animosity towards me I don't want that to be reflected upon my child.

So basically since I am a "client" I can't bring this up to her because then I would pretty much have to look for another provider? I just had to switch daycare because of a trust situation. Maybe I am just being paranoid, but I don't want this to turn into a situation where I don't trust daycare provider anymore.
JenNJ 11:45 AM 07-30-2010
Does your provider know all this? Can't you just speak with your provider?
DWTC 12:43 PM 07-30-2010
Jenn,
I'm trying to decide if I should speak with her about it or not? She knows that this girl and I are not on speaking terms, so I guess I just assumed she wouldn't have her over when my daughter is at daycare. My daughter is only there 3 days a week, I would think that she could have her come over on a day my daughter isn't there...

I don't want to get into a conflict with provider, but I know that if I don't say something it might get worse. I don't know!!!!
originalkat 02:35 PM 07-30-2010
I always appreciate it when parents are upfront with me about concerns. I can't address them if I dont know about them. You should politely bring it up and discuss your concerns. Just see what she has to say about it. If she says that the visitor is always kind and speaks appropriately to all the children including your daughter and you wish to stay with the provider then trust her opinion and dont worry about it. If it is that much of a conern then you may have to look elsewhere for child care.
Unregistered 03:35 PM 07-30-2010
Originally Posted by originalkat:
I always appreciate it when parents are upfront with me about concerns. I can't address them if I dont know about them. You should politely bring it up and discuss your concerns. Just see what she has to say about it. If she says that the visitor is always kind and speaks appropriately to all the children including your daughter and you wish to stay with the provider then trust her opinion and dont worry about it. If it is that much of a conern then you may have to look elsewhere for child care.
You're right, I would want someone to be upfront with me as well. I also wonder if she would have a concern with her children if the tables were turned. I guess that would be why it would be a good idea to talk with her about it.
Thanks!!
MommyMuffin 09:10 AM 08-02-2010
I completely disagree.
You should know who is around your children the entire day they are there, (during daycare hours it is a buisness!).
I would expect to be made aware if someone was coming to the house, why and if they have had a background check. Very hard to approch a provider about but if my child gets hurt, or molested or just plain feels uncomfortable around that person I feel personaly responsible as a parent and I am not there to make sure that doesnt happen so I would demand to know everytime.
I believe in rules and regulations. Parents-Children-Provider-Trust, key ingredients in the child care field and not notifying parents of visitors weakens the trust.
MommyMuffin 09:16 AM 08-02-2010
I mean agree!!
DWTC 04:15 PM 08-02-2010
See that's what I was thinking...it is a place of business!! I wouldnt be able to hang out with friends where I work. Even my boss doesn't hang out with friends at work.
It seems like it is a double standard with at home daycare...it is their business, so if they aren't running their business up to par...then who is there to let them know it isn't acceptable??
momofboys 05:26 PM 08-02-2010
Originally Posted by DWTC:
See that's what I was thinking...it is a place of business!! I wouldnt be able to hang out with friends where I work. Even my boss doesn't hang out with friends at work.
It seems like it is a double standard with at home daycare...it is their business, so if they aren't running their business up to par...then who is there to let them know it isn't acceptable??
But if it is their business, whether in their home or not, it is up to them to call the shots. Typically the businessowner makes the rules, not the customer. Obviously you have to let the provider know you are concerned but as a customer you aren't their boss.
DWTC 06:31 PM 08-02-2010
Originally Posted by janarae:
But if it is their business, whether in their home or not, it is up to them to call the shots. Typically the businessowner makes the rules, not the customer. Obviously you have to let the provider know you are concerned but as a customer you aren't their boss.
I understand that I'm not her boss...I'm not trying to be her boss. I am the parent though, so you would think that you would want to make the parents happy as a customer. Hence the statement "The customer is always right" If you don't make your customers happy, then you won't have any customers.
DWTC 07:16 PM 08-02-2010
I'm just having a hard time juggling this in my head...I'm paying a daycare provider to watch my child, not hang out with friends? But if she chooses to have her personal friends over it's ok, because thats how she chooses to run a business?
If I were to choose to have friends at work to hang out...I would get fired.
JenNJ 04:48 AM 08-03-2010
Do you know why she was there? Dropping off a borrowed object? Just popped by to say hello? I doubt you know the reason for the visit. If you feel like a personal visitor is a reason to "fire" your provider, then go for it. But good luck finding a provider who never has a visitor in their home or lets YOU decide who is and isn't allowed in their home. My friends stop by at least once a week. I am certainly not "hanging out" with them and ignoring my job. They usually join us and lend a hand with the kids. I have a sign in sheet in my home. EVERYONE has to sign in and out -- even the man who checks the electric and gas meters. Also, my mother in law babysits my kids one night a week and she is often here when other kids are getting picked up at the end of the day. Should I make her wait outside so not to upset anyone? That is weird.

But as far as molestation and your child being hurt by a visiting adult -- that is just paranoia. I know you didn't mention those things, but I HIGHLY doubt your provider is inviting unsavory characters over to molest her daycare children. Again, your BOSS sets the rules at your place of business and no personal visitors is a rule. At your providers home, she is the boss. She sets the rules of the business, not you.

It also seems as if you are making WAY too big of a deal about this by replaying this and wondering about the situation instead of just speaking to the provider. It all comes down to trust. You clearly do not trust your provider and all the conversations in the world are not going to change that.
momofboys 04:55 AM 08-03-2010
Originally Posted by DWTC:
I'm just having a hard time juggling this in my head...I'm paying a daycare provider to watch my child, not hang out with friends? But if she chooses to have her personal friends over it's ok, because thats how she chooses to run a business?
If I were to choose to have friends at work to hang out...I would get fired.
I see your point; however, I must ask if you have such little trust in your provider & that your provider is exposing your child to such "unruly" guests why are you still with said provider? That's the beauty of a home daycare, it is someone's home. Your provider chooses to work from home & that should not limit her ability to have a friend over. If you want a non-home environment where non-home-like activities take place thern go to a daycare center. But even there the kids will go on field trips & possibly have encounters with non-workers. Did your provider ever discuss playdates, etc with you prior to starting? I am very upfront that I do go on ocassional playdates with the kids in my care. I trust the people I am around during playdates & I am always watching the two kids in my care. I just see this as an issue of trust. Is your provider so untrustworthy that you don't think she has good judgment? I think you obviously do have some trust issues or you would not have left your past provider. Are you happy with the level of care your dd receives other than the visits from her friend? If I were you I would talk with the provider BUT keep in mind if you demand her to not see her friend that she may terminate your contract for care. If I was told something like that to me it would sound like you don't trust me or appreciate what I do. Maybe you have had a falling out with this other woman but is she a bad person/convicted felon, etc or just someone you don't get along with? There is a big difference.
DWTC 05:32 AM 08-03-2010
Originally Posted by janarae:
I see your point; however, I must ask if you have such little trust in your provider & that your provider is exposing your child to such "unruly" guests why are you still with said provider? That's the beauty of a home daycare, it is someone's home. Your provider chooses to work from home & that should not limit her ability to have a friend over. If you want a non-home environment where non-home-like activities take place thern go to a daycare center. But even there the kids will go on field trips & possibly have encounters with non-workers. Did your provider ever discuss playdates, etc with you prior to starting? I am very upfront that I do go on ocassional playdates with the kids in my care. I trust the people I am around during playdates & I am always watching the two kids in my care. I just see this as an issue of trust. Is your provider so untrustworthy that you don't think she has good judgment? I think you obviously do have some trust issues or you would not have left your past provider. Are you happy with the level of care your dd receives other than the visits from her friend? If I were you I would talk with the provider BUT keep in mind if you demand her to not see her friend that she may terminate your contract for care. If I was told something like that to me it would sound like you don't trust me or appreciate what I do. Maybe you have had a falling out with this other woman but is she a bad person/convicted felon, etc or just someone you don't get along with? There is a big difference.
I wouldn't consider this as a play date because this other lady doesn't have any children...so it doesn't make sense to me that she would come "hang out" at a daycare. It is a trust issue, my daycare provider knows what happened at my previous daycare and she also knows what is going on with this other person...so I'm having a hard time that she would even bring this into the mix.

Anyways, I just talked with my dcp and let her know that if she was planning on having certain friend over again to let me know so I could get backup care for that day. This was the only way I felt I could have a say in the situation. This way I am not telling her to not have friends over, but at the same time I can take my daughter out of the situation. Obviously, if it happens a lot I will be looking for a different provider.
nannyde 06:21 AM 08-03-2010
Originally Posted by DWTC:
I wouldn't consider this as a play date because this other lady doesn't have any children...so it doesn't make sense to me that she would come "hang out" at a daycare. It is a trust issue, my daycare provider knows what happened at my previous daycare and she also knows what is going on with this other person...so I'm having a hard time that she would even bring this into the mix.

Anyways, I just talked with my dcp and let her know that if she was planning on having certain friend over again to let me know so I could get backup care for that day. This was the only way I felt I could have a say in the situation. This way I am not telling her to not have friends over, but at the same time I can take my daughter out of the situation. Obviously, if it happens a lot I will be looking for a different provider.
I like your butterfly DW

Yeah I see this from both sides. When I come to that conclusion then the client comes first. As long as my kid isn't affected and the care of the other kids isn't affected... clients wishes first.

I don't have visitors during work because my kids act like little creeps when there is a stranger in the house.

I think you handled it by telling her that if the friend is to come over that you will find another day care for that day. That sends the message without being hateful or bossy about it. I like that.

Obviously if you have to do this with any regularity the arrangement won't work.

I have had a couple of day care parents that knew each other pre-day care and it did NOT work out. I didn't know they knew each other until well into the care of both kids. That put me in a bad spot because I didn't have any way to control it and eventually lost a client over it. The other left shortly so it was not good.

From the provider POV I can see where the stance would be: this is my home and I get to have whoever I want at my house. As long as they aren't left alone with the kids or provide any care to the kids it shouldn't be a problem. I don't do this because no matter WHO is around the kids they start acting like little devils so I just don't bring anyone into the play room... and that includes the parents.

So NO visitors at my house.

Hopefully she will abide by your wishes and it works out.
DWTC 06:32 AM 08-03-2010
Originally Posted by nannyde:
I like your butterfly DW

Yeah I see this from both sides. When I come to that conclusion then the client comes first. As long as my kid isn't affected and the care of the other kids isn't affected... clients wishes first.

I don't have visitors during work because my kids act like little creeps when there is a stranger in the house.

I think you handled it by telling her that if the friend is to come over that you will find another day care for that day. That sends the message without being hateful or bossy about it. I like that.

Obviously if you have to do this with any regularity the arrangement won't work.

I have had a couple of day care parents that knew each other pre-day care and it did NOT work out. I didn't know they knew each other until well into the care of both kids. That put me in a bad spot because I didn't have any way to control it and eventually lost a client over it. The other left shortly so it was not good.

From the provider POV I can see where the stance would be: this is my home and I get to have whoever I want at my house. As long as they aren't left alone with the kids or provide any care to the kids it shouldn't be a problem. I don't do this because no matter WHO is around the kids they start acting like little devils so I just don't bring anyone into the play room... and that includes the parents.

So NO visitors at my house.

Hopefully she will abide by your wishes and it works out.
LOL, yep...my little seems to act like that when I am on the phone too!!

You know, I was struggling with this all weekend and was trying to come up with a solution for this. As it is more of a personal issue than a professional issue. I thought of this solution this morning as I was turning onto her street. I didn't want to seem bossy, but wanted to be able to be a parent at the same time!!

I wanted to be very cautious because the last time I brought up a concern at my last daycare...dcp ended up yelling and swearing at me, while I was holding my child. I walked out that morning with my child and did not return!! I didn't want that to happen again. Of course that time it was more of a business concern as she was leaving the daycare children in care with her 16 yr old daughter. I didn't think that was good!
DWTC 06:58 AM 08-03-2010
Originally Posted by JenNJ:
Do you know why she was there? Dropping off a borrowed object? Just popped by to say hello? I doubt you know the reason for the visit. If you feel like a personal visitor is a reason to "fire" your provider, then go for it. But good luck finding a provider who never has a visitor in their home or lets YOU decide who is and isn't allowed in their home. My friends stop by at least once a week. I am certainly not "hanging out" with them and ignoring my job. They usually join us and lend a hand with the kids. I have a sign in sheet in my home. EVERYONE has to sign in and out -- even the man who checks the electric and gas meters. Also, my mother in law babysits my kids one night a week and she is often here when other kids are getting picked up at the end of the day. Should I make her wait outside so not to upset anyone? That is weird.

But as far as molestation and your child being hurt by a visiting adult -- that is just paranoia. I know you didn't mention those things, but I HIGHLY doubt your provider is inviting unsavory characters over to molest her daycare children. Again, your BOSS sets the rules at your place of business and no personal visitors is a rule. At your providers home, she is the boss. She sets the rules of the business, not you.

It also seems as if you are making WAY too big of a deal about this by replaying this and wondering about the situation instead of just speaking to the provider. It all comes down to trust. You clearly do not trust your provider and all the conversations in the world are not going to change that.
I brought this up on a daycare forum to see if others could help me figure out a way to bring up my concern with my dcp without "firing" her. I wanted to be able to hear the views of other daycare providers. I never mentioned her being molested, just that I don't feel comfortable with this person being around my child. And once again I would like to mention I wasn't trying to be her boss, just a parent. I was trying to get my thinking straight about it before I spoke with her...and I spoke with her the next time I dropped my daughter off with her. I didn't want to talk to her about it over the phone. That's why I waited to speak with her about it, not to replay it.
MommyMuffin 11:14 AM 08-03-2010
I was not assuming that you were talking about molestation, I was simply listing reasons for concern. I think to not be aware of the dangers children face would be ignorant.
DWTC 12:28 PM 08-03-2010
Originally Posted by MommyMuffin:
I was not assuming that you were talking about molestation, I was simply listing reasons for concern. I think to not be aware of the dangers children face would be ignorant.
I know you weren't!! I agreed with your post, I was just responding to a previous post about paranoia.

I will always be worried when it comes to my child...the world is a crazy place. Especially right now when she isn't able to communicate with me fully!!
Crystal 12:37 PM 08-03-2010
DWTC:

I agree with you that your provider should not be entertaining guests during business hours. Just as with any other profession, there are standards that we should follow. Having guests over to visit during business hours DOES take away from the time your provider is interacting with and supervising the children. It also reeks of unprofessionalism. Just because she is self-employed and "the boss" does not give her the right to say "it's my business, I'll do what I like" when she is caring for your child. She's self- employed, but she is serving clients - you work WITH your clients, not AGAINST your clients. Also, in most states, there are regs requiring that any adult that regularly visits the home must have a background check.

That being said, if I were you I WOULD have an issue with this occurring. Your provider was well aware of the situation between you and the "visitor". She should have certainly, out of respect and common courtesy, told the guest to visit at another time. She completely failed to even consider how you would feel about your child being around this person....she should be considering her business and the potential for losing a valuable client before considering that she may hurt her friends feelings if she asked her to visit at another time. Unless it was a drop in emergency, she should not be hanging around the dch.

Now, before I get blasted by some providers for saying she should not have guests, and accused of probably lying because I MUST have guests over during hours.....I DO NOT EVER invite a friend or family member over during business hours. I also DO NOT EVER have phone conversations during business hours, unless it's an emergency. There have been times when grandma or grandpa has dropped by unnanounced and they get a cordial hello and my husband will walk out front with them, talk to them for a few minutes, then see them on their way. But, I can honestly say that in 13 years of business I have not even one time had a friend over to "hang out" My primary focus during business hours is on the children. Period.

You have every right to be upset, and I probably would have addressed it with the provider in a little less frinedly way, considering she knew the history between you and her guest.
DWTC 12:52 PM 08-03-2010
Originally Posted by Crystal:
DWTC:

I agree with you that your provider should not be entertaining guests during business hours. Just as with any other profession, there are standards that we should follow. Having guests over to visit during business hours DOES take away from the time your provider is interacting with and supervising the children. It also reeks of unprofessionalism. Just because she is self-employed and "the boss" does not give her the right to say "it's my business, I'll do what I like" when she is caring for your child. She's self- employed, but she is serving clients - you work WITH your clients, not AGAINST your clients. Also, in most states, there are regs requiring that any adult that regularly visits the home must have a background check.

That being said, if I were you I WOULD have an issue with this occurring. Your provider was well aware of the situation between you and the "visitor". She should have certainly, out of respect and common courtesy, told the guest to visit at another time. She completely failed to even consider how you would feel about your child being around this person....she should be considering her business and the potential for losing a valuable client before considering that she may hurt her friends feelings if she asked her to visit at another time. Unless it was a drop in emergency, she should not be hanging around the dch.

Now, before I get blasted by some providers for saying she should not have guests, and accused of probably lying because I MUST have guests over during hours.....I DO NOT EVER invite a friend or family member over during business hours. I also DO NOT EVER have phone conversations during business hours, unless it's an emergency. There have been times when grandma or grandpa has dropped by unnanounced and they get a cordial hello and my husband will walk out front with them, talk to them for a few minutes, then see them on their way. But, I can honestly say that in 13 years of business I have not even one time had a friend over to "hang out" My primary focus during business hours is on the children. Period.

You have every right to be upset, and I probably would have addressed it with the provider in a little less frinedly way, considering she knew the history between you and her guest.
Thank you!!!

When I talked to her about it this morning, I felt that she was very professional about it. I actually doubt she will have her over again while my child is there. I think she does value having me as a client...but I guess we will see.
Crystal 01:39 PM 08-03-2010
Originally Posted by DWTC:
Thank you!!!

When I talked to her about it this morning, I felt that she was very professional about it. I actually doubt she will have her over again while my child is there. I think she does value having me as a client...but I guess we will see.
That's good. I hope it stays that way. Good luck to you
momofboys 01:57 PM 08-03-2010
Originally Posted by DWTC:
Thank you!!!

When I talked to her about it this morning, I felt that she was very professional about it. I actually doubt she will have her over again while my child is there. I think she does value having me as a client...but I guess we will see.
I'm glad it worked out for you! It sounds like your provider took your concerns seriously & was willing to work w/you about this situation.

I do want to mention though that I have ocassional playdates with a friend of mine who has 2 children close to the ages of the kids I care for (I only have 3 kids here during the day). the parents of my kids are happy I do so because it gives their kids more of an opportunity to interact with others. I guess I am a little saddened that because I do this that it is perceived as being unprofessional. The other parent & I only sit & play with the kids. It's not like we go into the other room, drink coffee & leave the kids to fend for themselves. Just thought I'd offer my POV on this. Not everyone who has playdates ignores the children.
Crystal 02:19 PM 08-03-2010
I think playdates are okay.... especially when you only have 2 dck AND the visitor has CHILDREN. I personally wouldn't do it, as my dck and own cildren have each other to play with. But it is different than an adult without children just hanging out.
DWTC 02:29 PM 08-03-2010
Originally Posted by janarae:
I'm glad it worked out for you! It sounds like your provider took your concerns seriously & was willing to work w/you about this situation.

I do want to mention though that I have ocassional playdates with a friend of mine who has 2 children close to the ages of the kids I care for (I only have 3 kids here during the day). the parents of my kids are happy I do so because it gives their kids more of an opportunity to interact with others. I guess I am a little saddened that because I do this that it is perceived as being unprofessional. The other parent & I only sit & play with the kids. It's not like we go into the other room, drink coffee & leave the kids to fend for themselves. Just thought I'd offer my POV on this. Not everyone who has playdates ignores the children.
I think playdates are great, and it gives the kids an opportunity to socialize with other kids that aren't around all the time. I wouldn't think that was unprofessional, it is in a way business related. Kids...playing...socializing...so on...
nannyde 04:50 AM 08-04-2010
Originally Posted by Crystal:
Now, before I get blasted by some providers for saying she should not have guests, and accused of probably lying because I MUST have guests over during hours.....I DO NOT EVER invite a friend or family member over during business hours. I also DO NOT EVER have phone conversations during business hours, unless it's an emergency. .
It doesn't really matter if you have guests over or have phone calls. It's something you can control and decide on a day to day basis. It's really not consequential to the care of the kids. Surely they are capable of self entertaining and surely you are able to supervise them properly with or without a visitor or while you are on the phone.

You may choose as a part of your business plan to avoid both but that is your choice and you have control over it to keep that plan or change it today.

That's VERY different than making a fantastical claim or lie that you are able to tell during an interview process whether or not a parent is going to spend their personal time off with their kid. It's very different when you claim your parents keep their kids with them on their personal time and then follow it with an example of a parent who takes nearly five full weeks of me time a year while her kid is in your care.

Saying you don't have visitors or phone calls isn't any different than saying you have yellow wall paper. It doesn't affect the chidlren in ANY way and you control it.
Crystal 06:09 AM 08-04-2010
Dear lord...in case you haven't noticed, I have begun addressing my posts directly to the OP, as I don't want anything to do with you. Leave me ALONE!
nannyde 06:48 AM 08-04-2010
Originally Posted by Crystal:
Dear lord...in case you haven't noticed, I have begun addressing my posts directly to the OP, as I don't want anything to do with you. Leave me ALONE!
Oh I've noticed. I also noticed you referred to the previous thread "Now, before I get blasted by some providers for saying she should not have guests, and accused of probably lying because I MUST have guests over during hours.....

I'm responding to THAT part of the post where YOU brought it up.
DanceMom 07:20 AM 08-04-2010
I know personally there is NO way I can sit and have friends over all day - I have NO time to sit and Chit Chat all day with another adult - I am way to busy with the kids for that.....

It is HER business but she needs to RESPECT her Clients and listen to their concerns and if she is not willing to do as the client wishes then its probably not a business for her to be in...you unfortunately have to do what your clients want you to do - NO NOT ALL THE TIME - but they do pay your bills - They do pay for QUALITY CARE - and I know I couldnt give quality care to any of these kids if I had friends over..Even ONE friend over. Ive had friends stop by, Mother in law stop by and as soon as that second adult is there and your eyes are not on those kids something happens - With my kids my eyes and attention need to be on them the entire day - I barely can get to the bathroom !!! ( I'm off today...)

I can see the parents point in this one..
jen 07:30 AM 08-04-2010
I think it's laughable that a provider would go on and on about being professional and NO guests, NO phone calls...yet they have hundreds of posts on multiple websites...during business hours.

Apparently, a phone call or guest is out of the question, but the computer is A-OK!

What a joke!
nannyde 07:33 AM 08-04-2010
Originally Posted by DWTC:
I think playdates are great, and it gives the kids an opportunity to socialize with other kids that aren't around all the time. I wouldn't think that was unprofessional, it is in a way business related. Kids...playing...socializing...so on...
I was thinking about this last night and trying to think of the last time I had someone be at the house while I was working.

My Dad came in May. He's 70 and he drove straight thru from South Dakota to come visit for a week. He brought my family and dck's a full cooler of meats from South Dakota. We switched to a fully grass fed meat diet after watching Food Inc. He watched Food Inc and HE switched too ;-) Anyway, we have had so many discussions about it during our journeys and he offered to bring us food that he accessed there.

He brought us venison, elk, phesant, and buffalo. It was SO nice of him to do that for my kids. When he came thru he needed to stop here and drop off the frozen meats as they needed to go into the freezer. I took him downstairs to meet the kids and I wanted the kids to thank him for doing this for us.

I think it's important for kids to know where their food comes from. We have had deliveries during the day for our meats, grains, veggies, and fruits. I try to schedule them at a time where the farmers who serve us get a chance to SEE the kids they feed and the kids to meet the people who provide our food.

So there are times when having a visitor is something that I think is good for the kids. There are times when I think having a visitor is good for the visitor.

I'm not of the mindset that it's unprofessional to have visitors during work hours. I don't think babysitting the kids while you visit on the phone or have a friend over is so complicated. The kids can entertain themselves. As long as you are supervising them and the person isn't left alone with the kids it should be up to the provider to decide. I don't do it because the kids act up. I don't "not" do it because it's unproffessional. I'm just a babysitter so I don't need to be all kinds of proffessional.

If there is a particular visitor the parents didn't like then yes... I think the parent has a right to offer to have their kid out of the day care on any of those days.
Crystal 08:18 AM 08-04-2010
Originally Posted by jen:
I think it's laughable that a provider would go on and on about being professional and NO guests, NO phone calls...yet they have hundreds of posts on multiple websites...during business hours.

Apparently, a phone call or guest is out of the question, but the computer is A-OK!

What a joke!
Hahaha! You're right, it IS laughable....BUT, I have regularly scheduled breaks and at minimum two assistants here to provide tose breaks. AND, most of my posts are before work or during naptime. AND, my hundreds of posts, on TWO websites, are over several months....not like I do it all day.

All the posts in this thread from yesterday were during naptime. My first post this morning was before work. MY posts now are when I am on break and my husband and daughter are working with the children.
Crystal 08:19 AM 08-04-2010
Originally Posted by nannyde:
Oh I've noticed. I also noticed you referred to the previous thread "Now, before I get blasted by some providers for saying she should not have guests, and accused of probably lying because I MUST have guests over during hours.....

I'm responding to THAT part of the post where YOU brought it up.
I never brought up another thread. YOU did. And I was talking about the providers in THIS thread who I KNEW would have something to say about it, because they basically said the OP was wrong....
jen 08:22 AM 08-04-2010
Originally Posted by Crystal:
Hahaha! You're right, it IS laughable....BUT, I have regularly scheduled breaks and at minimum two assistants here to provide tose breaks. AND, most of my posts are before work or during naptime. AND, my hundreds of posts, on TWO websites, are over several months....not like I do it all day.
But even with those scheduled breaks and two assistants you NEVER take a phone call! Of course not. You won't even visit with the grandparents, rather you have them escorted off the property by your husband.

Uhhh huh. Makes perfect sense.
nannyde 08:39 AM 08-04-2010
Originally Posted by Crystal:
I never brought up another thread. YOU did. And I was talking about the providers in THIS thread who I KNEW would have something to say about it, because they basically said the OP was wrong....
I stand corrected. I didn't see there was someone else on this thread who thought you weren't telling the truth.
Crystal 08:40 AM 08-04-2010
No, I don't talk on the phone. I'll answer the phone, but will not stay on the phone. Honestly, I don't remember the last time I got a personal call during business hours because my friends an family respect the fact that i am working and they call me after hours.

And, I don't have granma and grandpa "escorted off the property" They are my husbands parents, he will visit with them outside and then they leave. AND, they are heavy smokers, they KNOW they aren't allowed in my home during business hours because of the smell.
Crystal 08:42 AM 08-04-2010
Originally Posted by nannyde:
I stand corrected. I didn't see there was someone else on this thread who thought you weren't telling the truth.
Like I said, I KNEW it WOULD happen. Not that it already had.

And, again, I am done being baited into defending myself.
JenNJ 08:47 AM 08-04-2010
I don't see the issue with visitors. The main visitors I have are my best friend and her 2 children who come for playdates since her kids don't go to daycare/summer camp. She deals with her 2 (and usually my 2 becasue they love her) while I do my thing. Usually we are outside on the playground and I am able to supervise all the kids while having a conversation.

The other visitor I have is my mother in law. She sometimes stops off to say hello and plays with all the kids, reads stories, etc. All the kids love her and she is my back up provider.

Looking at it as a parent and a provider, I dont see how either one is unprofessional.
Crystal 08:58 AM 08-04-2010
Originally Posted by JenNJ:
I don't see the issue with visitors. The main visitors I have are my best friend and her 2 children who come for playdates since her kids don't go to daycare/summer camp. She deals with her 2 (and usually my 2 becasue they love her) while I do my thing. Usually we are outside on the playground and I am able to supervise all the kids while having a conversation.

The other visitor I have is my mother in law. She sometimes stops off to say hello and plays with all the kids, reads stories, etc. All the kids love her and she is my back up provider.

Looking at it as a parent and a provider, I dont see how either one is unprofessional.
I agree with you. As I said in a previous post about playdates. And, if your MIL is a back up provider, then that is also totally accetable. I was only referring to random friends "hangin out" at the daycare, as this is what the OP was referring too.
Janet 11:43 AM 08-04-2010
Originally Posted by nannyde:
I was thinking about this last night and trying to think of the last time I had someone be at the house while I was working.

My Dad came in May. He's 70 and he drove straight thru from South Dakota to come visit for a week. He brought my family and dck's a full cooler of meats from South Dakota. We switched to a fully grass fed meat diet after watching Food Inc. He watched Food Inc and HE switched too ;-) Anyway, we have had so many discussions about it during our journeys and he offered to bring us food that he accessed there.

He brought us venison, elk, phesant, and buffalo. It was SO nice of him to do that for my kids. When he came thru he needed to stop here and drop off the frozen meats as they needed to go into the freezer. I took him downstairs to meet the kids and I wanted the kids to thank him for doing this for us.

I think it's important for kids to know where their food comes from. We have had deliveries during the day for our meats, grains, veggies, and fruits. I try to schedule them at a time where the farmers who serve us get a chance to SEE the kids they feed and the kids to meet the people who provide our food.

So there are times when having a visitor is something that I think is good for the kids. There are times when I think having a visitor is good for the visitor.

I'm not of the mindset that it's unprofessional to have visitors during work hours. I don't think babysitting the kids while you visit on the phone or have a friend over is so complicated. The kids can entertain themselves. As long as you are supervising them and the person isn't left alone with the kids it should be up to the provider to decide. I don't do it because the kids act up. I don't "not" do it because it's unproffessional. I'm just a babysitter so I don't need to be all kinds of proffessional.

If there is a particular visitor the parents didn't like then yes... I think the parent has a right to offer to have their kid out of the day care on any of those days.
Nan, I LOVE YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I love that you have your kids take an interest in where their food is coming from and I love that you had your daycare kids meet your dad so that they could thank him for the meat!

I don't go out of my way to stop people from coming over to visit with me unless they are the type of people who want my full attention and in that case, I have no time for them. I have a couple friends who will stop by but it is because they are bringing kids with them and the kids all play together and we play with them.

Also, every year I have a "Career Week" lesson plan and part of the lesson plan is that I have people come in to visit with the kids and to talk about their professions and the kids have a question and answer session with the people who come to talk about their jobs. This time we had the following careers represented :
Massage therapist
Program director/DJ for a radio station
EMC engineer
Naturopath
Phlebotomist
County clerk
Nurse
Firefighter
Boat builder

Yep, some of those people were "strangers" but I think that the benefit that they provided by graciously giving their time to talking to my kids about their careers greatly outweighed the risk (which was non-existent because I was sitting with them, listening to the spreakers.
Crystal 12:32 PM 08-04-2010
Are you really trying to compare a friend coming to visit and hang out, which is what this thread was about, with providing educational experiences for the children? WOW, you guys will do anything just to disagree with me, huh? I'm flattered, really
Janet 01:19 PM 08-04-2010
Originally Posted by Crystal:
Are you really trying to compare a friend coming to visit and hang out, which is what this thread was about, with providing educational experiences for the children? WOW, you guys will do anything just to disagree with me, huh? I'm flattered, really
Just trying to point out that just because a person comes over to a provider's house (friend or not) it doesn't neccessarily mean that a provider won't do her job.
Crystal 01:28 PM 08-04-2010
But, Janet, providing educational experiences IS your job....hanging out with friends is not. AGAIN, let me clarify, I am not talking about playdates or educational experiences, I am referring to having friends "hang out" as was the original topic here.

Good-day.
DWTC 01:32 PM 08-04-2010
Originally Posted by Janet:
Nan, I LOVE YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I love that you have your kids take an interest in where their food is coming from and I love that you had your daycare kids meet your dad so that they could thank him for the meat!

I don't go out of my way to stop people from coming over to visit with me unless they are the type of people who want my full attention and in that case, I have no time for them. I have a couple friends who will stop by but it is because they are bringing kids with them and the kids all play together and we play with them.

Also, every year I have a "Career Week" lesson plan and part of the lesson plan is that I have people come in to visit with the kids and to talk about their professions and the kids have a question and answer session with the people who come to talk about their jobs. This time we had the following careers represented :
Massage therapist
Program director/DJ for a radio station
EMC engineer
Naturopath
Phlebotomist
County clerk
Nurse
Firefighter
Boat builder

Yep, some of those people were "strangers" but I think that the benefit that they provided by graciously giving their time to talking to my kids about their careers greatly outweighed the risk (which was non-existent because I was sitting with them, listening to the spreakers.
Actually, I think this would be great!! My original post wasn't about something like this at all. It was about a personal issue I had with someone, that I didn't feel comfortable with having around my child. She would have NO business being at daycare providers home, no children, no career to talk to daycare kids about, no benefit at all.
But you know since I did bring it up to daycare provider and told her that I would find backup care for that day if she absolutely needed her friend to visit. The way that she responded was NON defensive and that went a long way in my book...I think it actually built a little on my trust for her. Considering how I was treated at the previous daycare when I brought up a concern and was snapped at!! Being level-headed and professional will go a long way with parents. Even though I may be over-protective with my child I would have no problem with any visitation that would be a great learning experience for them.
Also, I don't have a problem with her having other friends over to visit, stop by to say hi...etc. I don't have any personal issues with any of her other friends, I don't even know any of her other friends. I trust her enough...just didn't feel comfortable with particular friend being there.
nannyde 02:08 PM 08-04-2010
Originally Posted by Crystal:
Are you really trying to compare a friend coming to visit and hang out, which is what this thread was about, with providing educational experiences for the children? WOW, you guys will do anything just to disagree with me, huh? I'm flattered, really
No... I added this:

I'm not of the mindset that it's unprofessional to have visitors during work hours. I don't think babysitting the kids while you visit on the phone or have a friend over is so complicated. The kids can entertain themselves. As long as you are supervising them and the person isn't left alone with the kids it should be up to the provider to decide. I don't do it because the kids act up. I don't "not" do it because it's unproffessional. I'm just a babysitter so I don't need to be all kinds of proffessional.
nannyde 02:10 PM 08-04-2010
Originally Posted by DWTC:
Actually, I think this would be great!! My original post wasn't about something like this at all. It was about a personal issue I had with someone, that I didn't feel comfortable with having around my child. She would have NO business being at daycare providers home, no children, no career to talk to daycare kids about, no benefit at all.
But you know since I did bring it up to daycare provider and told her that I would find backup care for that day if she absolutely needed her friend to visit. The way that she responded was NON defensive and that went a long way in my book...I think it actually built a little on my trust for her. Considering how I was treated at the previous daycare when I brought up a concern and was snapped at!! Being level-headed and professional will go a long way with parents. Even though I may be over-protective with my child I would have no problem with any visitation that would be a great learning experience for them.
Also, I don't have a problem with her having other friends over to visit, stop by to say hi...etc. I don't have any personal issues with any of her other friends, I don't even know any of her other friends. I trust her enough...just didn't feel comfortable with particular friend being there.
Yes your situation is different. I personally wouldn't want to piss off a good customer over a visit from a friend. I think you handled it really well.
Former Teacher 04:05 PM 08-04-2010
I don't know about your state and being in home care etc..but in TX licensed child care centers, anyone who is in contact with the children has to have the FBI check, background check, CPR blah blah, REGARDLESS of that persons point of being there.

We once had a parent who would stay FOREVER just to visit, talk to us, hang out etc. State came in and said that he needed a background check if he was going to continue to interact with the children. The director stated that he was parent who was spending time with his daughter. State said that anyone in constant contact with the children for over 30 mins MUST have all that BS (my words, not her's ) paperwork on file. No matter if it was a parent or not. Another example was there was a Gym Bus that would come weekly. Because the sessions were 30 plus mins., she too had to be on file with us as well. She already was with the state because of her career but we had to keep stuff on file for her as well.

Just a FYI
Janet 04:22 PM 08-04-2010
Originally Posted by Crystal:
But, Janet, providing educational experiences IS your job....hanging out with friends is not. AGAIN, let me clarify, I am not talking about playdates or educational experiences, I am referring to having friends "hang out" as was the original topic here.

Good-day.
I have had friends over to socialize and have been able to do my job and visit at the same time. My friends that have come over do so with the understanding that I am first and foremost going to be focusing on my kids. As a result, most of my friends do choose to visit after hours. I don't think that it's impossible visit and do my job.

The kids get my full attention, no matter who is around.
nannyde 06:07 PM 08-04-2010
Originally Posted by Janet:
I have had friends over to socialize and have been able to do my job and visit at the same time. My friends that have come over do so with the understanding that I am first and foremost going to be focusing on my kids. As a result, most of my friends do choose to visit after hours. I don't think that it's impossible visit and do my job.

The kids get my full attention, no matter who is around.
I could do my job and have a friend over. Wouldn't affect the kids but it would affect me. The kids would LOVE it. They turn into devil spawn when they have an unusual adult around.

I swear the can't even make it thru the dang meter reader without getting into trouble. They huddle her every time she comes. I keep telling them to leave her alone... I could end up with a two thousand dollar electric bill curtosey of their distractions. Little creeps
nannyde 07:02 PM 08-04-2010
Originally Posted by Janet:
Nan, I LOVE YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I love that you have your kids take an interest in where their food is coming from and I love that you had your daycare kids meet your dad so that they could thank him for the meat!
Awww thanks

I do think it's important for all of us to know where our food comes from. We have gotten away from that with our current food system. I don't do it as an educational activity but more of a way to give thanksgiving.

When we say our blessing before the kids eat they say "Bless Sally, Bless Johnny, .. "bess each one of the kids" and now they bless my Dad "Bless Papa Ourlastname" and Bless Chicken Farmer Galen, Bless Farmer Paul, Bless Buffalo Famer Bob etc.

They know who takes care of us so they want to bless them. Now that's pretty sweet.

I love that SO much.
mac60 06:22 AM 08-05-2010
Originally Posted by MommyMuffin:
I completely disagree.
You should know who is around your children the entire day they are there, (during daycare hours it is a buisness!).
I would expect to be made aware if someone was coming to the house, why and if they have had a background check. Very hard to approch a provider about but if my child gets hurt, or molested or just plain feels uncomfortable around that person I feel personaly responsible as a parent and I am not there to make sure that doesnt happen so I would demand to know everytime.
I believe in rules and regulations. Parents-Children-Provider-Trust, key ingredients in the child care field and not notifying parents of visitors weakens the trust.
If you believe that every person coming into the providers home you should be notified of and each and every person should have a background check, does that not apply to you, the parents of the children too.

I started this business to be my own boss, not to be dictated to by "parents". I call the shots not the parents. If a friend stops in at naptime, it is my choice to visit or not, not the parents choice, if my mom stops in, again my choice on whether she stays or not. As long as I am taking care of the children properly, it is no ones busniness who visits me. So next time a parents says Aunt Sally is picking Joey up.....guess you better have that background check in hand if I open my door to you. It can't be a one way street. What is fair for one is fair for all.
JenNJ 06:39 AM 08-05-2010
Originally Posted by mac60:
If you believe that every person coming into the providers home you should be notified of and each and every person should have a background check, does that not apply to you, the parents of the children too.

I started this business to be my own boss, not to be dictated to by "parents". I call the shots not the parents. If a friend stops in at naptime, it is my choice to visit or not, not the parents choice, if my mom stops in, again my choice on whether she stays or not. As long as I am taking care of the children properly, it is no ones busniness who visits me. So next time a parents says Aunt Sally is picking Joey up.....guess you better have that background check in hand if I open my door to you. It can't be a one way street. What is fair for one is fair for all.
I agree with this 100%! I have the main adults background checks available (myself, husband, mil). If anyone else complained about background checks, I would kindly tell them how much the checks are and hand them a list of regular visitors, including themselves, all other daycare parents and all emergency contacts and tell them that they are more than welcome to take care of it themselves.
jen 07:31 AM 08-05-2010
It sounds as though the OP and the provider reached an understanding, so that is all good.

As for the rest of it...

If, as a parent, you want that kind of control, you need to go to a center or hire a nanny. As I see it, you make certain trade-offs when you choose home daycare as opposed to center or nanny care. Most of those trade-offs benefit the parent and the child...lower rates, less turnover, more one on one attention. SOME of the trade-offs benefit the provider...the ability to choose who attends, make the rules, do a load of laundry, or God forbid, visit with a friend.

Unfortunately, one of the problems I see with SOME parents who have children in home daycare is that they are looking to have ALL of the benefits but without the cost. In other words, they want all the trade-offs to benefit them. They say it is under the guise of being a good parent, however it's really quite clear that this is a power issue. They want the power to make the rules and become frustrated when a provider refuses to relinquish control of thier business practices. Nothing more than your everyday control freak.

The same applies to providers who consistently berate other providers, holding themselves up as the standard to which all others should struggle to attain. Really good providers have no need to do this; really good providers are able to support other providers and still feel good about themselves as business people and caregivers. Confident providers don't need to make every parent believe that they are the very best provider by agreeing with them unconditionally and at the expense of thier (the providers) peers. There is no need to list off thier accomplishments and degrees, no need deny the possibility of human error or oversight on thier part, no need to turn in others on the assumption that they aren't licensed or may be in some SLIGHT violation. Truthfully, it is sad when you meet a provider like this, clearly much of thier self esteem and confidence is wrapped up in a goal that isn't attainable. We will all make mistakes, we will all have the occassional error in judgement or decide that a family is too much of a hassle. Most of us can handle that and still feel good about the job we do and how we do. Those that can't spend lots of time telling others what they do wrong and make up stories to illustrate thier points...sad, sad, sad.
Janet 10:11 AM 08-05-2010
Originally Posted by jen:
It sounds as though the OP and the provider reached an understanding, so that is all good.

As for the rest of it...

If, as a parent, you want that kind of control, you need to go to a center or hire a nanny. As I see it, you make certain trade-offs when you choose home daycare as opposed to center or nanny care. Most of those trade-offs benefit the parent and the child...lower rates, less turnover, more one on one attention. SOME of the trade-offs benefit the provider...the ability to choose who attends, make the rules, do a load of laundry, or God forbid, visit with a friend.

Unfortunately, one of the problems I see with SOME parents who have children in home daycare is that they are looking to have ALL of the benefits but without the cost. In other words, they want all the trade-offs to benefit them. They say it is under the guise of being a good parent, however it's really quite clear that this is a power issue. They want the power to make the rules and become frustrated when a provider refuses to relinquish control of thier business practices. Nothing more than your everyday control freak.

The same applies to providers who consistently berate other providers, holding themselves up as the standard to which all others should struggle to attain. Really good providers have no need to do this; really good providers are able to support other providers and still feel good about themselves as business people and caregivers. Confident providers don't need to make every parent believe that they are the very best provider by agreeing with them unconditionally and at the expense of thier (the providers) peers. There is no need to list off thier accomplishments and degrees, no need deny the possibility of human error or oversight on thier part, no need to turn in others on the assumption that they aren't licensed or may be in some SLIGHT violation. Truthfully, it is sad when you meet a provider like this, clearly much of thier self esteem and confidence is wrapped up in a goal that isn't attainable. We will all make mistakes, we will all have the occassional error in judgement or decide that a family is too much of a hassle. Most of us can handle that and still feel good about the job we do and how we do. Those that can't spend lots of time telling others what they do wrong and make up stories to illustrate thier points...sad, sad, sad.
This post really sums it all up! Jen, thank you for writing this post. It's nice to see fellow providers who don't feel the need to tear others down!
MommyMuffin 12:35 PM 08-05-2010
Wow what an attack. I am not telling you how to run "your" buisness. I am simply giving my opinion which is what I thought a forum was all about.
Basically as a parent I expect to be introduced to people that will be hanging around my child at the daycare home and my provider does a wonderful job and always makes things available about anyone she may have over.
And of course people picking up children would most likely not be there for hours and playing with the children. If so my provider would let me know anyways.
***CAUTION*** this is my opinion not directed at you personally
Crystal 12:43 PM 08-05-2010
Originally Posted by MommyMuffin:
Wow what an attack. I am not telling you how to run "your" buisness. I am simply giving my opinion which is what I thought a forum was all about.
Basically as a parent I expect to be introduced to people that will be hanging around my child at the daycare home and my provider does a wonderful job and always makes things available about anyone she may have over.
And of course people picking up children would most likely not be there for hours and playing with the children. If so my provider would let me know anyways.
***CAUTION*** this is my opinion not directed at you personally
Ah, don't worry, they were talking about me
jen 02:31 PM 08-05-2010
Originally Posted by MommyMuffin:
Wow what an attack. I am not telling you how to run "your" buisness. I am simply giving my opinion which is what I thought a forum was all about.
Basically as a parent I expect to be introduced to people that will be hanging around my child at the daycare home and my provider does a wonderful job and always makes things available about anyone she may have over.
And of course people picking up children would most likely not be there for hours and playing with the children. If so my provider would let me know anyways.
***CAUTION*** this is my opinion not directed at you personally
Truthfully, I have only read one of your posts that I can recall and I wouldn't make a judgement about a specific individual based on one post. I was speaking as what I have seen from a variety of parents online, friends with kids, and former clients...I have seen many more who are respectful and straightforward and I appreciate those parents who value the care that I give thier children and trust me implicitly. Recently a parent told me that in the 3 years that I have been watching her child, that she has never once questioned anything I have done with her child...in my mind, there is no bigger compliment.
professionalmom 03:58 PM 08-05-2010
To the OP, I am glad that it is working out. Personally, if a client had a problem with a particular visitor, I would certainly take that into consideration.

As for the others, I do have guests from time to time. With most of our family living out of state, most of them stay with us when they visit. But that really amounts to my parents, my MIL, and my best friends. My best friend was a nanny for many years and I explain that to every client. We are not "visiting" and ignoring the children. My guests are actively involved in helping out when they are here. We almost always made trips to the zoo, beach, etc. when I had those extra sets of eyes and hands to help out. And the DC kids referred to my parents as grandma and papa. So they were just another extension to their daycare family.
QualiTcare 07:29 AM 08-08-2010
Originally Posted by jen:
It sounds as though the OP and the provider reached an understanding, so that is all good.

As for the rest of it...

If, as a parent, you want that kind of control, you need to go to a center or hire a nanny. As I see it, you make certain trade-offs when you choose home daycare as opposed to center or nanny care. Most of those trade-offs benefit the parent and the child...lower rates, less turnover, more one on one attention. SOME of the trade-offs benefit the provider...the ability to choose who attends, make the rules, do a load of laundry, or God forbid, visit with a friend.

Unfortunately, one of the problems I see with SOME parents who have children in home daycare is that they are looking to have ALL of the benefits but without the cost. In other words, they want all the trade-offs to benefit them. They say it is under the guise of being a good parent, however it's really quite clear that this is a power issue. They want the power to make the rules and become frustrated when a provider refuses to relinquish control of thier business practices. Nothing more than your everyday control freak.

The same applies to providers who consistently berate other providers, holding themselves up as the standard to which all others should struggle to attain. Really good providers have no need to do this; really good providers are able to support other providers and still feel good about themselves as business people and caregivers. Confident providers don't need to make every parent believe that they are the very best provider by agreeing with them unconditionally and at the expense of thier (the providers) peers. There is no need to list off thier accomplishments and degrees, no need deny the possibility of human error or oversight on thier part, no need to turn in others on the assumption that they aren't licensed or may be in some SLIGHT violation. Truthfully, it is sad when you meet a provider like this, clearly much of thier self esteem and confidence is wrapped up in a goal that isn't attainable. We will all make mistakes, we will all have the occassional error in judgement or decide that a family is too much of a hassle. Most of us can handle that and still feel good about the job we do and how we do. Those that can't spend lots of time telling others what they do wrong and make up stories to illustrate thier points...sad, sad, sad.
ever heard the phrase, "nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent" - or something like that.

it's TRUE.

i think if one of them thar degreed people were talking about how to climb a tree, someone would bring up education.(sorry, i still laugh bout people here saying they were "degreed")

in my experience, and hearing mentors and peers experiences as well, daycare providers in real life are intimidated by providers, teachers, parents or anyone educated in early childhood. i don't see why it would be any different in this forum - and it doesn't seem to be.

it would be intimidating to do a job for several years and then have someone come along with experience and 4 years of college because you KNOW they are pretty much an expert in whatever field it may be (at least they should be). knowing they're watching you, etc. i'm sure it's not comfortable. however, it doesn't mean that person should pay for your (or whoever's) insecurities. if you want a degree in early childhood, then get one. if you don't, then keep on doing what you're doing and MOVE ON!!

crystal, unfortunately, you're never going to escape the label. i realize that education is mentioned because it's a credential which is just as good as a SOURCE that some people DEMAND anytime a statement is made.

if i asked a lawyer a question (who went to law school) i wouldn't ask him to cite his source when i got the answer. if you asked me a question about development or teaching, i'd think you wouldn't ask me for a SOURCE for my answer. i know the answers because they were implanted in my brain after 4 years - go find your own source. seriously people, it's beyond obvious and a little sad what the motive is for the petty stuff.
jen 10:53 AM 08-08-2010
Originally Posted by QualiTcare:
ever heard the phrase, "nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent" - or something like that.

it's TRUE.

i think if one of them thar degreed people were talking about how to climb a tree, someone would bring up education.(sorry, i still laugh bout people here saying they were "degreed")

in my experience, and hearing mentors and peers experiences as well, daycare providers in real life are intimidated by providers, teachers, parents or anyone educated in early childhood. i don't see why it would be any different in this forum - and it doesn't seem to be.

it would be intimidating to do a job for several years and then have someone come along with experience and 4 years of college because you KNOW they are pretty much an expert in whatever field it may be (at least they should be). knowing they're watching you, etc. i'm sure it's not comfortable. however, it doesn't mean that person should pay for your (or whoever's) insecurities. if you want a degree in early childhood, then get one. if you don't, then keep on doing what you're doing and MOVE ON!!

crystal, unfortunately, you're never going to escape the label. i realize that education is mentioned because it's a credential which is just as good as a SOURCE that some people DEMAND anytime a statement is made.

if i asked a lawyer a question (who went to law school) i wouldn't ask him to cite his source when i got the answer. if you asked me a question about development or teaching, i'd think you wouldn't ask me for a SOURCE for my answer. i know the answers because they were implanted in my brain after 4 years - go find your own source. seriously people, it's beyond obvious and a little sad what the motive is for the petty stuff.
Uhmmmm...actually, I am one of "them thar degreed" people. However, when someone (outside of a future client) asks me about daycare, I don't go out of my way to mention it.
QualiTcare 04:41 PM 08-08-2010
Originally Posted by jen:
Uhmmmm...actually, I am one of "them thar degreed" people. However, when someone (outside of a future client) asks me about daycare, I don't go out of my way to mention it.
so you have an early childhood degree? that's what i was talking about.

it really wouldn't matter if someone with a teaching degree went to work with a bunch of engineers......for example.

but if a chef goes to work at mcdonald's, or a teacher at a daycare....yes. it DOES affect the crew.
momofboys 05:17 PM 08-08-2010
Originally Posted by QualiTcare:
so you have an early childhood degree? that's what i was talking about.

it really wouldn't matter if someone with a teaching degree went to work with a bunch of engineers......for example.

but if a chef goes to work at mcdonald's, or a teacher at a daycare....yes. it DOES affect the crew.
Really, must we continue to harp on & on about our degrees & knowledge & la de da?! What difference does it make whether she has a degree in English or Communications or History or ECE? The important thing is that she does have the higher education that you constantly seem to rant on & on about your clients being willing to pay extra for. I guess her degree isn't good enough since it isn't EC? I for one have never felt inferior b/c I have a degree (and shame on me that it is not EC, lol?!). For the record I think all regular posters on here seem to be wonderful providers whether they have a degree in ECE, English, etc or a degree in nothing. You mentioned it not mattering if the teacher went to work with engineers. Obviously though her education enabled her to get the job as a engineer. So yes, it would matter if she did so b/c it shows how versatile people with education can be. And I would be willing to bet that any daycare center would snatch up anyone with a Bachelor or Arts or Bachelor of Science regardless of the major they had. I know at the preschool center where my son attended they proudly mentioned that the head teacher had a BA. . . but it was NOT was in ECE!
Crystal 06:26 PM 08-08-2010
Originally Posted by QualiTcare:
ever heard the phrase, "nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent" - or something like that.

it's TRUE.

i think if one of them thar degreed people were talking about how to climb a tree, someone would bring up education.(sorry, i still laugh bout people here saying they were "degreed")

in my experience, and hearing mentors and peers experiences as well, daycare providers in real life are intimidated by providers, teachers, parents or anyone educated in early childhood. i don't see why it would be any different in this forum - and it doesn't seem to be.

it would be intimidating to do a job for several years and then have someone come along with experience and 4 years of college because you KNOW they are pretty much an expert in whatever field it may be (at least they should be). knowing they're watching you, etc. i'm sure it's not comfortable. however, it doesn't mean that person should pay for your (or whoever's) insecurities. if you want a degree in early childhood, then get one. if you don't, then keep on doing what you're doing and MOVE ON!!

crystal, unfortunately, you're never going to escape the label. i realize that education is mentioned because it's a credential which is just as good as a SOURCE that some people DEMAND anytime a statement is made.

if i asked a lawyer a question (who went to law school) i wouldn't ask him to cite his source when i got the answer. if you asked me a question about development or teaching, i'd think you wouldn't ask me for a SOURCE for my answer. i know the answers because they were implanted in my brain after 4 years - go find your own source. seriously people, it's beyond obvious and a little sad what the motive is for the petty stuff.
thank you. I appreciate your support. always have, always will
QualiTcare 07:43 PM 08-08-2010
Originally Posted by janarae:
Really, must we continue to harp on & on about our degrees & knowledge & la de da?! What difference does it make whether she has a degree in English or Communications or History or ECE? The important thing is that she does have the higher education that you constantly seem to rant on & on about your clients being willing to pay extra for. I guess her degree isn't good enough since it isn't EC? I for one have never felt inferior b/c I have a degree (and shame on me that it is not EC, lol?!). For the record I think all regular posters on here seem to be wonderful providers whether they have a degree in ECE, English, etc or a degree in nothing. You mentioned it not mattering if the teacher went to work with engineers. Obviously though her education enabled her to get the job as a engineer. So yes, it would matter if she did so b/c it shows how versatile people with education can be. And I would be willing to bet that any daycare center would snatch up anyone with a Bachelor or Arts or Bachelor of Science regardless of the major they had. I know at the preschool center where my son attended they proudly mentioned that the head teacher had a BA. . . but it was NOT was in ECE!
so, it's okay to harp on education as long as the harping is meant to make fun of someone (crystal) ?

you SHOULDNT feel inferior - that was my point - people talking about her "tearing people down." only YOU can let someone tear you down. surely everyone here has more confidence than that.

umm, i'm sure your son's preschool would be happy to hire someone with a degree, even if it was a degree in underwater basket weaving - considering the STANDARDS are a GED or HS diploma. i personally don't see a point in an ECE degree unless you plan to teach or work as a director somewhere that actually requires it, but that's JMO.

i need a disclaimer message at the bottom of every post apparently.
jen 09:04 PM 08-08-2010
Originally Posted by QualiTcare:
so you have an early childhood degree? that's what i was talking about.

it really wouldn't matter if someone with a teaching degree went to work with a bunch of engineers......for example.

but if a chef goes to work at mcdonald's, or a teacher at a daycare....yes. it DOES affect the crew.
I never made fun of Crystal nor did I bring up education...YOU did!

My degree is in psychology...and they do sort of insist on child development, family theory, behavioral analysis, and a host of other things that pertain to being a daycare provider.

But you know what...I could do my job just as well without my degree...many, many parents and providers do just fine without one. I refuse to believe that my degree makes me any more qualified than anyone else with common sense, a love of children, and the means and ability to seek information from other sources.
QualiTcare 09:56 PM 08-08-2010
Originally Posted by jen:
I never made fun of Crystal nor did I bring up education...YOU did!

My degree is in psychology...and they do sort of insist on child development, family theory, behavioral analysis, and a host of other things that pertain to being a daycare provider.

But you know what...I could do my job just as well without my degree...many, many parents and providers do just fine without one. I refuse to believe that my degree makes me any more qualified than anyone else with common sense, a love of children, and the means and ability to seek information from other sources.
ok, let's beat around the bush some more. everyone knows who certain people are talking about because she has a fan club - that's obvious. "there's no need to list off accomplishments or degrees, blah blah" you did say that....

but you are right about not needing to list anything off - it can be said one time and that's considered too much and apparently is ammunition for some reason.

i've seen several posts where her "accomplishments and degrees" are mentioned without her doing anything other than give her opinion. if it isn't a big deal to anyone, could've fooled me.

i'm done - the end - continue talking amongst yourselves.
mac60 03:04 AM 08-09-2010
OMG.....this USED to be a fun and inviting place to come.....not anymore. Seriously, a degree, means a person took the time to go to college, did the work, and got a piece of paper in the end. Doesn't mean they are any better than anyone else because of it. Would you rather go to a mechanic with 10 years experience who doesn't hold a degree, or go to a mechanic with no experience who just received his piece of paper. I know which one I would choose. Experience beats degree in my book any day.........
momofboys 03:56 AM 08-09-2010
Originally Posted by QualiTcare:
so, it's okay to harp on education as long as the harping is meant to make fun of someone (crystal) ?

you SHOULDNT feel inferior - that was my point - people talking about her "tearing people down." only YOU can let someone tear you down. surely everyone here has more confidence than that.

umm, i'm sure your son's preschool would be happy to hire someone with a degree, even if it was a degree in underwater basket weaving - considering the STANDARDS are a GED or HS diploma. i personally don't see a point in an ECE degree unless you plan to teach or work as a director somewhere that actually requires it, but that's JMO.

i need a disclaimer message at the bottom of every post apparently.
For the record my comments were not directed at Crystal, in fact I never read back that far. My comments were directed at YOU, that was why I quoted you.
momofboys 03:57 AM 08-09-2010
Originally Posted by mac60:
OMG.....this USED to be a fun and inviting place to come.....not anymore. Seriously, a degree, means a person took the time to go to college, did the work, and got a piece of paper in the end. Doesn't mean they are any better than anyone else because of it. Would you rather go to a mechanic with 10 years experience who doesn't hold a degree, or go to a mechanic with no experience who just received his piece of paper. I know which one I would choose. Experience beats degree in my book any day.........
ITA w/you! That was the point I was trying to make. I'm sick of all this "degree" talk. I would pick you hands-down b/c you have the experience, definitely not based upon a degree.
nannyde 04:28 AM 08-09-2010
Originally Posted by jen:
I never made fun of Crystal nor did I bring up education...YOU did!

My degree is in psychology...and they do sort of insist on child development, family theory, behavioral analysis, and a host of other things that pertain to being a daycare provider.

But you know what...I could do my job just as well without my degree...many, many parents and providers do just fine without one. I refuse to believe that my degree makes me any more qualified than anyone else with common sense, a love of children, and the means and ability to seek information from other sources.
I'm confused as why Crystal is coming up in Qualiti posts. I don't think you were reffering to her when you were talking about degrees/education. From what I can see of the population that posts on this forum, Crystal is in the middle of the spectrum for both education and experience.

I do think having a degree does contribute to success for a child care provider. For those of us that have degrees it's a little hard to imagine what we would have done without it.

I have friends who have a high school education and some college but no degrees. One is a Center Director of two centers, one is a home provider in her 31st year, one in their 27th year. They have been successful without having advanced education. It's surely possible. I think the attributes you listed: common sense, a love of children, and the means and ability to seek information from other sources PLUS a good strong work ethic makes for a good provider.
jen 05:52 AM 08-09-2010
Originally Posted by nannyde:
I'm confused as why Crystal is coming up in Qualiti posts. I don't think you were reffering to her when you were talking about degrees/education. From what I can see of the population that posts on this forum, Crystal is in the middle of the spectrum for both education and experience.

I do think having a degree does contribute to success for a child care provider. For those of us that have degrees it's a little hard to imagine what we would have done without it.

I have friends who have a high school education and some college but no degrees. One is a Center Director of two centers, one is a home provider in her 31st year, one in their 27th year. They have been successful without having advanced education. It's surely possible. I think the attributes you listed: common sense, a love of children, and the means and ability to seek information from other sources PLUS a good strong work ethic makes for a good provider.
I was a bit confused as well...but thats nothing new! LOL!
Crystal 05:54 AM 08-09-2010
Personally, I appreciate the fact that Qualitcare picked up on the fact that the post in question was directed at me. I knew it was, I just chose not to make an issue of it. In one post, some time ago, I did mention my education, as someone had mentioned that an education isn't necessary and doesn't provide you with anything othr than a "piece of paper" I then listed some things that my education has allowed me to accomplish.

Ever since then, some members have assumed that that meant that I think I am better than others here. And, many times when I am involved in a discussion where there is disagreement, then it is thrown in my face that I apparently think I am better, I bash others, etc.

I DO NOT think I am better than anyone else, and I don't bash other providers. I simply state my personal beliefs/values/philosophy/opinion, just as anyone else here, yet on many occasions I have been "spoken to" as if I am the only person here who ever does such a thing. Qualitcare just happens to realize what is happening.

I am not bothered by it....as you can see, it has not deterred me from being an active, productive member of this forum. I personally do not care what is thought of me. I am who I am, and always will be.
Crystal 05:58 AM 08-09-2010
Originally Posted by jen:



The same applies to providers who consistently berate other providers, holding themselves up as the standard to which all others should struggle to attain. Really good providers have no need to do this; really good providers are able to support other providers and still feel good about themselves as business people and caregivers. Confident providers don't need to make every parent believe that they are the very best provider by agreeing with them unconditionally and at the expense of thier (the providers) peers. There is no need to list off thier accomplishments and degrees, no need deny the possibility of human error or oversight on thier part, no need to turn in others on the assumption that they aren't licensed or may be in some SLIGHT violation. Truthfully, it is sad when you meet a provider like this, clearly much of thier self esteem and confidence is wrapped up in a goal that isn't attainable. We will all make mistakes, we will all have the occassional error in judgement or decide that a family is too much of a hassle. Most of us can handle that and still feel good about the job we do and how we do. Those that can't spend lots of time telling others what they do wrong and make up stories to illustrate thier points...sad, sad, sad.
So, if this wan't specifically directed at me, the only provider in this thread who has disagreed with you, specifically, then who was it aimed at? I'm calling bs. Everything in this post is in reference to something I have said in the last, geez, 6 months.
jen 06:33 AM 08-09-2010
Originally Posted by Crystal:
So, if this wan't specifically directed at me, the only provider in this thread who has disagreed with you, specifically, then who was it aimed at? I'm calling bs. Everything in this post is in reference to something I have said in the last, geez, 6 months.
Believe it or not Crystal, there are other besides yourself who hold those same views. My comments were directed at the group as opposed to the individual.

The fact that you see yourself in my post is more telling than anything else I could say at this point.
Crystal 06:46 AM 08-09-2010
Originally Posted by jen:
Believe it or not Crystal, there are other besides yourself who hold those same views. My comments were directed at the group as opposed to the individual.

The fact that you see yourself in my post is more telling than anything else I could say at this point.
Well, I'm not the only one who saw it, so there it is.

And, no, Qualitycare isn't the only other member who saw it....some members prefer to pm me because they don't want to get "bashed"

Which "group" are you referring to anyway, I was the only one here, in this thread, that has ever been accused of such things in the past....
jen 08:02 AM 08-09-2010
Originally Posted by Crystal:
Well, I'm not the only one who saw it, so there it is.

And, no, Qualitycare isn't the only other member who saw it....some members prefer to pm me because they don't want to get "bashed"

Which "group" are you referring to anyway, I was the only one here, in this thread, that has ever been accused of such things in the past....
I was referring to those providers, out there in the world, not just this particular forum, who get thier kicks out of berating other providers for the sake of thier own self esteem.

If you, or anyone else for that matter, saw you in that message, then so-be-it.
Crystal 08:21 AM 08-09-2010
Okay Jen. I'm not going to debate it with you.
Janet 08:41 AM 08-09-2010
In my opinion, I think that the degree or lack of a degree doesn't totally indicate the type of provider that a person will be. Here is an example of why I feel like I do. When I worked at the daycare center that I was at before I opened my own home daycare, I was the Lead teacher in the toddler classroom. I live in MI and now you have to have an ECE or equivalent education background to have a lead position. I do not have either of those but since I was already in the role before the law went into effect I was able to be grandfathered in provided that I got my CDA. I went to the class and completed the 120 hours of classroom training, I did my portfolio and all of that other good stuff. All that I'm missing is taking the test and paying the money. Since I don't need it for my current job, I don't plan on finishing it. Anyway, back to my example. My director was hiring an assistant for the toddler classroom and she got an application from a girl who had a degree in ECE and she had her CDA. On paper, this girl was perfect so the director hired her without doing a working interview. This girl not only didn't bond with the children, the parents or the staff, she simply didn't know how to do her job. She was knowledgeable but she had no clue as to how to apply the knowledge in real life situations. She also went behind my back and tried to get the director to demote me and put her in the lead teacher position because I wasn't educated like she was. She didn't last too long at the center.

Education is wonderful but it is not the deciding factor on a person's ability to do their job well. Experience is wonderful, but it is also not the deciding factor on a person's ability to do their job well. A healthy balance is a good thing.
Michael 11:56 AM 08-09-2010
Off topic. This are is a Parents and Guardians Forum.
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