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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Should I Term?
EchoMom 08:42 AM 10-22-2012
A 5 year old half day Kindergarten boy?

I agreed because it was a friend of family...
It was supposed to be summer only...
Turned into they needed care for the whole school year too...
He goes to PM Kindergarten but is with me 7:30am-Noon and then back again 3:15-5pmish.
He comes 3 days a week.
The money is very good and he perfectly fits opposite my other PT family.
I could replace him, but it would take some time to find another perfect schedule...
He's very loving, very helpful.

The rest of my group are infants and toddlers.
All one and 2 year olds.
He is big for his age.
He is clumsy.
Spills more than the littles do.
Accidentally breaks things.
Accidentally flooded my house!!!
HE GETS BORED HERE.
When he's bored, he's just too BIG and there's nothing age appropriate for him to free play with.
I give him Kinder. activities and special things to do, but it exhausts me and takes away from my free times, cleaning times, and attention to the littles.
He talks to me CONSTANTLY, my ears are bleeding...
He's too big for most of my outdoor toys.
He gets sulky when I make him sit down and complete a Kinder activity.
MY HOUSE IS VERY SMALL; HE IS VERY LARGE AND CLUMSY.
Winter is coming.... We'll be stuck inside the house most of the time and then it will be even more cramped and boring for him.
He sometimes has an attitude, but the parents have nipped it in the bud.
Sometimes his helpfulness is actually just getting in the way and slowing me down.
Sometimes his lovingness comes across as odd to parents.

He's not "BAD" and hasn't done anything "WRONG" but yet it's just a major MISMATCH... I dread the days he's here. I LOVE the days he's not.

I've never termed anyone before. I don't want to make anyone mad or enemies. He's a good kid, but he's just not a good FIT for my infant/toddler daycare group...

What should I do? Suck it up and just continue to deal with it? Term?
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littlemissmuffet 08:52 AM 10-22-2012
Hmmm. I think I'd keep him. He sounds like my nephew! He's not bad or wrong, he can just be very clumsy and annoying - but you'll only have him until grade 1. There's an end in sight. If there were other issues, I'd consider terming, but what you described, I could handle (in comparrison to what I would term for).

Just curious about being stuck inside for winter - how cold/snowy does it get where you live? We have winter six months a year, LOTS of snow, and it can get to -50 degrees celcius (average is -20 to -25 celcius)! But I still manage to get 5-7 kiddos bundled up and outside for at least 20 minutes a day, at least 3 days a week!
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rhymia1 09:16 AM 10-22-2012
I am going to be the odd man and say that yes, I would let him go. I don't think it's fair to keep him with your group knowing that the placement isn't appropriate. Yes, you could keep him and he would be fine. Bored out of his mind, but fine. Or you could suggest an age appropriate placement to his parents and he could blossom.
I think this is a case where you can be *somewhat* honest with the parents. "Steve is a great kid, and I'm sorry to see him go, but he has really outgrown my care and I know there are times despite my best effort that he is bored. I think he would really love an "older" program."
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MamaBearCanada 09:17 AM 10-22-2012
Why are there no age appropriate toys? This would probably be the biggest reason he's bored. I would invest in a few age appropriate toys and also some outdoor sand/garden toys that can also be used in the snow. What about cars, trains, duplo, stuff to built a fort - cardboard, pegs, fabric/sheets, etc & he could camp, make signs. Could you give him some computer time for things like Starfall, Alphablocks, SuperWhy? What about a 'big kid' area he can read/play like a special mat/beanbag so that the play space is divided but not isolating to protect the littles.

It's hard when you have a mix of ages but if he is happy and occupied I think you might find you enjoy having him around
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cheerfuldom 09:21 AM 10-22-2012
i would term. hes not the right fit and its too much time and money to create the right environment. why make more work for yourself?
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cheerfuldom 09:23 AM 10-22-2012
Originally Posted by littlemissmuffet:
Hmmm. I think I'd keep him. He sounds like my nephew! He's not bad or wrong, he can just be very clumsy and annoying - but you'll only have him until grade 1. There's an end in sight. If there were other issues, I'd consider terming, but what you described, I could handle (in comparrison to what I would term for).

Just curious about being stuck inside for winter - how cold/snowy does it get where you live? We have winter six months a year, LOTS of snow, and it can get to -50 degrees celcius (average is -20 to -25 celcius)! But I still manage to get 5-7 kiddos bundled up and outside for at least 20 minutes a day, at least 3 days a week!
i would imagine outside is a problem because the op has alot of tiny ones
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DaisyMamma 09:26 AM 10-22-2012
I think that if he is really cramping your style go ahead and term. It sounds like he is really to big for your setup.
I would just let mom and dad know that he is having a hard time fitting into your program and would be happier with kids his own age.
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littlemissmuffet 09:45 AM 10-22-2012
Originally Posted by cheerfuldom:
i would imagine outside is a problem because the op has alot of tiny ones
The OP said she has all 1-2 year olds. That's what I have as well. My oldest child just turned 3. I think if a daycare provider cannot handle taking their children outside, at least some of the time, due to ages then something is wrong. Children need to be outside on a regular basis, especially during the winter months to get vitamin D and just not be cooped up for that many months. It's not fair to the kids, or the parents who pay for childcare. In my opinion there is just no excuse.
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rhymia1 10:08 AM 10-22-2012
Originally Posted by littlemissmuffet:
The OP said she has all 1-2 year olds. That's what I have as well. My oldest child just turned 3. I think if a daycare provider cannot handle taking their children outside, at least some of the time, due to ages then something is wrong. Children need to be outside on a regular basis, especially during the winter months to get vitamin D and just not be cooped up for that many months. It's not fair to the kids, or the parents who pay for childcare. In my opinion there is just no excuse.
I agree to an extent. I know when I have more little ones our outdoor time is not as long as when I have an older group. Add diaper changes, potty training, etc and time can be cut even further.
That said, *if* the OP chooses to keep this child than she has an obligation to invest in age appropriate toys for both in and outdoors.
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EchoMom 10:09 AM 10-22-2012
Originally Posted by littlemissmuffet:
The OP said she has all 1-2 year olds. That's what I have as well. My oldest child just turned 3. I think if a daycare provider cannot handle taking their children outside, at least some of the time, due to ages then something is wrong. Children need to be outside on a regular basis, especially during the winter months to get vitamin D and just not be cooped up for that many months. It's not fair to the kids, or the parents who pay for childcare. In my opinion there is just no excuse.
Whoa whoa whoa! I never said I don't take the kids outside! I take my kids outside EVERY DAY for at LEAST 1-2 hours/day. And we also take a 30min-1hour walk around the neighborhood several times a week.

And yes, last winter I bundled up six kids in winter gear and took them to play in the snow too, even with newborns-toddlers. Getting outside is not the problem.

The problem is what does the 5 year old have to do once he's out there? He can't throw snowballs at the littles, he'll kill them! Remember I said, this kid is not just a 5 year old boy, he is a BIGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG 5 year old boy!!! He's easily the size of a second grader. He is over the weight limit for all of my toys, cannot use any of the ride ones, swings, etc.

I do give him MANY special things to do, like special legos I bought exclusively for him, Kindergarten school activities, yard work (he enjoys), etc. etc. But the problem is I can't be ON for this kid all the time. I can't cater to just him when I have 5 other children ages 1 and 2 that need activities and supervision.

I just feel BAD terming him and have never termed before. He's not BAD or agressive, but he's huge, bored, and he's only going to get bigger and older as the school year goes on...
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EchoMom 10:11 AM 10-22-2012
And he does not like the computer. It only keeps his attention for 10min. When we go on walks he pushes my DS in the single stroller while I push the double, or I let him walk the dog. But then he gets bored and rowdy and the dog runs away or I have to keep telling him to push my DS nicely. But if I don't give him these special accommodations on the walk, then he's just bored because 2 year olds walk much slower than he wants to. And he WON'T STOP TALKING.
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littlemissmuffet 10:12 AM 10-22-2012
Originally Posted by rhymia1:
I agree to an extent. I know when I have more little ones our outdoor time is not as long as when I have an older group. Add diaper changes, potty training, etc and time can be cut even further.
That said, *if* the OP chooses to keep this child than she has an obligation to invest in age appropriate toys for both in and outdoors.
Agreed, it might take me 20 minutes for me to get everyone ready and then we only stay out for 20 minutes... but I couldn't imagine being stuck in the house like that all winter, or putting poor kids through it. I have yet to meet a kid (even the young 12 months old) that don't like to go out,m crawl in the snow a little, etc.

I also agree that if the OP doesn't want to invest money into age appropriate toys than yes, she should term (and not feel bad, because this is just part of the business sometimes); especially if she doesn't plan on keeping that age-group ever again.
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rhymia1 10:19 AM 10-22-2012
Originally Posted by glenechogirl:
And he does not like the computer. It only keeps his attention for 10min. When we go on walks he pushes my DS in the single stroller while I push the double, or I let him walk the dog. But then he gets bored and rowdy and the dog runs away or I have to keep telling him to push my DS nicely. But if I don't give him these special accommodations on the walk, then he's just bored because 2 year olds walk much slower than he wants to. And he WON'T STOP TALKING.
Oh my! It does sound like you have done everything you can do - this boy need FRIENDS his age and more his size (maybe an 8 yo )
If it makes it easier stop calling it "terminating" And try to see this as a positive. You know he needs more than you can give him, and there is nothing wrong with acknowledging that. So often we try to keep every kid and it's not really fair to anyone. Good luck!
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littlemissmuffet 10:38 AM 10-22-2012
Originally Posted by glenechogirl:
Whoa whoa whoa! I never said I don't take the kids outside! I take my kids outside EVERY DAY for at LEAST 1-2 hours/day. And we also take a 30min-1hour walk around the neighborhood several times a week.

And yes, last winter I bundled up six kids in winter gear and took them to play in the snow too, even with newborns-toddlers. Getting outside is not the problem.

The problem is what does the 5 year old have to do once he's out there? He can't throw snowballs at the littles, he'll kill them! Remember I said, this kid is not just a 5 year old boy, he is a BIGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG 5 year old boy!!! He's easily the size of a second grader. He is over the weight limit for all of my toys, cannot use any of the ride ones, swings, etc.

I do give him MANY special things to do, like special legos I bought exclusively for him, Kindergarten school activities, yard work (he enjoys), etc. etc. But the problem is I can't be ON for this kid all the time. I can't cater to just him when I have 5 other children ages 1 and 2 that need activities and supervision.

I just feel BAD terming him and have never termed before. He's not BAD or agressive, but he's huge, bored, and he's only going to get bigger and older as the school year goes on...
Thanks for clarifying that for me. Sorry for misunderstanding!

The more you say, the more it becoms obvious he shouldn't be in your care. I know you feel bad terminating, but I think it would make it easier for you if you looked into other options for him to suggest to mom and dad... daycares that take kiddos that age and actually have the toys and resources to keep him happy during the day! He's obviously driving you crazy, and the situation has you worried - so I think there are only 2 choices here - invest in new toys (indoor and outdoor) for the child and see if it helps; or let him go. You can't feel guilty about giving the child what he wants/needs... and if the parents don't see it that way it's on them, not you. Part of being a great provider is knowing when to let go.
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EntropyControlSpecialist 10:43 AM 10-22-2012
Originally Posted by rhymia1:
Oh my! It does sound like you have done everything you can do - this boy need FRIENDS his age and more his size (maybe an 8 yo )
If it makes it easier stop calling it "terminating" And try to see this as a positive. You know he needs more than you can give him, and there is nothing wrong with acknowledging that. So often we try to keep every kid and it's not really fair to anyone. Good luck!
I completely agree.

I am also of the mindset that if ONE child is making me dread the day then that child has to go.
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EchoMom 10:50 AM 10-22-2012
Originally Posted by rhymia1:
Oh my! It does sound like you have done everything you can do - this boy need FRIENDS his age and more his size (maybe an 8 yo )
If it makes it easier stop calling it "terminating" And try to see this as a positive. You know he needs more than you can give him, and there is nothing wrong with acknowledging that. So often we try to keep every kid and it's not really fair to anyone. Good luck!
BINGO! That's it, you're right. It's not that I don't have ANY toys for him, and like I said, as a former Kindergarten teacher myself, I do have TONS of Kinder. school activities for him to do. But he's bored even with the STUFF after awhile. And there's nothing really in the playroom for him to do because that's all stuff for littles.

You're right though, that's it, he needs a FRIEND. He doesn't have anyone to play legos WITH. He doesnt' have anyone else to talk to except me. He goes to PM Kinder. for 3 hours, but he's still with me 6-7hours for the rest of the day...

I don't think buying him more STUFF will help, you're right, I think he needs FRIENDS.

But worry and hesitation in terming though, is where will he go? I don't know what else is out there. I don't know if anyone else does home daycare that has older kids around me. Should I just not worry about that? Not my problem?

Also, how much time should I give them? My contract and deposit are just for one week. I can term them with one week notice, they can cancel me with just one week notice. I just feel like actually telling them one week is such short notice. But my mom (business partner) thinks that giving them more time they'll just procrastinate and wait until the last minute anyway. Thoughts?
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Lilbutterflie 11:06 AM 10-22-2012
My DS will be 5 soon and won't start kindy until next fall. 3 days/wk he is the only big kid with all the others being 1-2 yrs of age. He gets right down there with them and plays, and they play well! They play with cars together, duplo blocks, trains, animals, etc...

I do think it is possible to mix these ages. I would definitely encourage him to play with the littles, they can both really learn a lot from each other!

If he doesn't want to play with the littles, I would work on him playing independently. Give him a few different age appropriate things to play with or do and let him pick and choose independently. When he tries to engage you, simply say "Go play toys." I do this even with the little ones to encourage them to play. There is no reason you should have to entertain him the entire time he is with you.
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rhymia1 11:37 AM 10-22-2012
Originally Posted by glenechogirl:
BINGO! That's it, you're right. It's not that I don't have ANY toys for him, and like I said, as a former Kindergarten teacher myself, I do have TONS of Kinder. school activities for him to do. But he's bored even with the STUFF after awhile. And there's nothing really in the playroom for him to do because that's all stuff for littles.

You're right though, that's it, he needs a FRIEND. He doesn't have anyone to play legos WITH. He doesnt' have anyone else to talk to except me. He goes to PM Kinder. for 3 hours, but he's still with me 6-7hours for the rest of the day...

I don't think buying him more STUFF will help, you're right, I think he needs FRIENDS.

But worry and hesitation in terming though, is where will he go? I don't know what else is out there. I don't know if anyone else does home daycare that has older kids around me. Should I just not worry about that? Not my problem?

Also, how much time should I give them? My contract and deposit are just for one week. I can term them with one week notice, they can cancel me with just one week notice. I just feel like actually telling them one week is such short notice. But my mom (business partner) thinks that giving them more time they'll just procrastinate and wait until the last minute anyway. Thoughts?
Isn't there a program through the school? We have after school care, but K is full day here. I guess I would think that some programs might advertise themselves as "bridge" programs for 1/2 day kinders...Do you have a child care resource and referral agency? They may be able to help the parents out. But I would think 2-3 weeks would be more than enough notice. It is nice of you to think of the family, but I would not knock yourself out. I frequently find in this business that "no good deed goes unpunished."
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EntropyControlSpecialist 11:49 AM 10-22-2012
A lot of daycare centers also offer an afterschool program.
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cheerfuldom 01:45 PM 10-22-2012
I didnt mean to imply that the OP does not take the kids outside....


but the reality of keeping young ones busy and happy and then having one kid much older and trying to keep him happy IS a struggle. I dont think taking him outside more is the fix all because when he is outside, so are the littles.....he still has no one to play with, has to watch out for little kids, be around age inappropriate toys/activities and the situation is not better because of location.

that was my point.
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