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Unregistered 03:17 PM 12-30-2013
My 2.5yr old goes to a very small center. She's not doing well socially and I'm thinking of moving her to the on-site center at my work because of that and some other reasons, but we've just been holding off hoping that things would get better. The teacher that she's most attached to is on vacation so they've been letting her spend time in the 4 year old room with another teacher she likes. They told me today they're thinking of making it a permanent change because her language skills are more on par with the older kids. She is very verbal- she signed before she ever talked, talked very early, and as an only child is surrounded by adults most of the time so she has a very developed vocabulary and way of speaking. However, emotionally and physically, she just can't keep up with the 4 year olds. I'm afraid they're just making the change because otherwise she'd cry all day if she were to stay with her age group. If she's not in the older room, she's miserable and tells me daily that she doesn't like school and doesn't want to go. I'm getting frustrated and am wondering if the change to the center at my work would be better (it's very highly rated, good company, good reviews from co workers who use it- I just began this job a month ago), or if I just have a kid who's going to be unhappy no matter where I put her. I don't even know what my question is, I guess it's kind of a vent and request for opinions.
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daycare 03:39 PM 12-30-2013
to be honest, I dont agree with moving younger children up in to an older room. I don't care if the kid is 2 and can talk as well as a 6 year old, their maturity is not there or is there since of logical thinking. Younger kids are always so entertained by older kids, never the other way around.

I was moved up when I was younger from first grade to second grade. I hated my parents for it my whole school life.

Now as a preschool teacher, I see why it is important to not push children up.

I would explore your options and then make the decision to move your child or not, but make sure you are secure with your choice and then don't move them again until it's time to go to school. Preschool hoping never helps settle children in and it's like starting all over again from day one.

I hope you are able to find the best place for your child and that my two cents where some what helpful in making the right choice for your child.
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Heidi 03:53 PM 12-30-2013
Is it possible to find a program that has a mixed age group? This way, she can spend time with both older children and those her own age, and she develop at HER pace. Gifted children often mature asynchronously, as you've noticed. They may be advanced intellectually, but behind or typical socially or physically. Meeting all their needs can be difficult. You want to make sure they are challenged.

My sister has 3 children that have all skipped grades successfully, but it was later, and the transition was always well-planned by both my sister and the teachers. For instance, my niece skipped 3rd grade, but since she spent 2nd grade in a 2nd AND 3rd grade mixed classroom, she moved with half her class. In that school, each year as the 2nd graders moved up to 3rd, the 3rd graders moved out and new 2nd graders came in, KWIM? So, the transition was an easy one.

Here is a wonderful website you might find helpful:

http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/
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Heidi 03:55 PM 12-30-2013
Originally Posted by daycare:
to be honest, I dont agree with moving younger children up in to an older room. I don't care if the kid is 2 and can talk as well as a 6 year old, their maturity is not there or is there since of logical thinking. Younger kids are always so entertained by older kids, never the other way around.

I was moved up when I was younger from first grade to second grade. I hated my parents for it my whole school life.
Now as a preschool teacher, I see why it is important to not push children up.

I would explore your options and then make the decision to move your child or not, but make sure you are secure with your choice and then don't move them again until it's time to go to school. Preschool hoping never helps settle children in and it's like starting all over again from day one.

I hope you are able to find the best place for your child and that my two cents where some what helpful in making the right choice for your child.
I don't know your parents, DC, but you may have hated school either way, or maybe your parents were just "high pressure" types. You probably know by now that as parents, none of us "win" anyway! I get what you're saying, but kids that are held back when they're ready for more, and denied it can have a hard time, too!
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MrsSteinel'sHouse 04:09 PM 12-30-2013
I also would wonder if she would do better in a mixed room. I am a home provider and that is why I love the set up at my house. I have a nice mix of ages. If she is not happy there and you have a center at work I would probably give it a try. She may click with a couple of kids and they may be able to offer her a better environment. Generally, I do not like moving kids around but it doesn't sound like she is really attached to her providers there.
Let us know what you decide and how it works out.
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Angelsj 04:21 PM 12-30-2013
You may want to take a look or talk to your doctor about Asperger's syndrome. I have a dd with this, and your child is very similar. It presents differently in girls than in boys. Some of the points:

1) Highly verbal: My dd spoke in full sentences by 10 months (in French) and was fluent in two languages as well as sign by 3. Today she speaks several languages with a variety of fluency.

2) Preferring the company of older children and/or adults. They do this because they are more able to pick up intellectually on the social and conversational aspects and imitate them from an adult, than from children their own age.

3) High level vocabulary and sentence structure. These kids use words you would not expect from a young child and use them correctly, though perhaps rudely if not checked, as they don't really understand/believe that others have feelings.
At four, she told a family friend that her joviality was only surpassed by her corpulence. The adult thought it was a complement..lol
As a side note, however, these kids do often become very empathetic and want to change/fix the world.

Getting her tested and checked would, if nothing else, give you a point A and help you find some answers about what will help her be more comfortable. It could be Asperger's or she may just be a gifted kid who is bored with the little ones. For the record, these kids often have amazing IQs as well. My dd measured over 200 at the age of two (testing limitations make this hard to really judge), and still tops 170 today.
Perhaps in an environment that is more family style, with some variety in ages, so she can choose to hang out with older kids if that is what she enjoys. From my own experience, I would also recommend allowing her to have a large variety of experiences as well, such as waterparks, science museums, nature walks, and lots of math manipulatives. You might be amazed at what she can really do.
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e.j. 09:44 AM 12-31-2013
Originally Posted by Angelsj:
You may want to take a look or talk to your doctor about Asperger's syndrome. I have a dd with this, and your child is very similar. It presents differently in girls than in boys. Some of the points:

1) Highly verbal: My dd spoke in full sentences by 10 months (in French) and was fluent in two languages as well as sign by 3. Today she speaks several languages with a variety of fluency.

2) Preferring the company of older children and/or adults. They do this because they are more able to pick up intellectually on the social and conversational aspects and imitate them from an adult, than from children their own age.

3) High level vocabulary and sentence structure. These kids use words you would not expect from a young child and use them correctly, though perhaps rudely if not checked, as they don't really understand/believe that others have feelings.
At four, she told a family friend that her joviality was only surpassed by her corpulence. The adult thought it was a complement..lol As a side note, however, these kids do often become very empathetic and want to change/fix the world.

Getting her tested and checked would, if nothing else, give you a point A and help you find some answers about what will help her be more comfortable. It could be Asperger's or she may just be a gifted kid who is bored with the little ones. For the record, these kids often have amazing IQs as well. My dd measured over 200 at the age of two (testing limitations make this hard to really judge), and still tops 170 today.
Perhaps in an environment that is more family style, with some variety in ages, so she can choose to hang out with older kids if that is what she enjoys. From my own experience, I would also recommend allowing her to have a large variety of experiences as well, such as waterparks, science museums, nature walks, and lots of math manipulatives. You might be amazed at what she can really do.
I was thinking along these same lines but was happy someone else mentioned it first! I don't want to be the dc provider who always jumps to mention Asperger's whenever I hear a parent describe their "highly intellignet, very verbal but struggling socially" child but I guess it is the first thing that comes to mind for me based on my own life experience.
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e.j. 09:46 AM 12-31-2013
Originally Posted by Angelsj:
At four, she told a family friend that her joviality was only surpassed by her corpulence. The adult thought it was a complement..lol
That's hysterical!
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Angelsj 10:22 AM 12-31-2013
Originally Posted by e.j.:
I was thinking along these same lines but was happy someone else mentioned it first! I don't want to be the dc provider who always jumps to mention Asperger's whenever I hear a parent describe their "highly intellignet, very verbal but struggling socially" child but I guess it is the first thing that comes to mind for me based on my own life experience.
I know. I hate to be "that person" but it is so very different in girls, that it is often very hard to diagnose. I also don't think the medical community is very on target with this idea. Girls often cover the social problems in exactly the way this child seems to be doing, by hanging out with adults and older kids.
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e.j. 11:51 AM 12-31-2013
Originally Posted by Angelsj:
I know. I hate to be "that person" but it is so very different in girls, that it is often very hard to diagnose. I also don't think the medical community is very on target with this idea. Girls often cover the social problems in exactly the way this child seems to be doing, by hanging out with adults and older kids.
I totally understand what you're saying. My son was diagnosed with AS and there's no doubt in my mind that my husband has it, too. My dd was tested and found to have some learning disabilities but not Asperger's. My gut tells me, though, that she does have a mild version of it. Although she's very feminine and not a tomboy, she has never been able to relate to girls her own age and has always tended to hang out more with guy friends or older adults.
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nannyde 07:05 PM 12-31-2013
What State are you in? If a center did this here in Iowa they would have to staff the room at a one to six ratio for her instead of a one to 12 ratio in the four year old room. This would mean the staff caring for her would have SIX less kids. That would mean a 1200 dollar per week loss of income for that room. That wouldn't happen. They wouldn't appease one child to get the income to loose the income of six.
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MrsSteinel'sHouse 04:09 AM 01-01-2014
Originally Posted by nannyde:
What State are you in? If a center did this here in Iowa they would have to staff the room at a one to six ratio for her instead of a one to 12 ratio in the four year old room. This would mean the staff caring for her would have SIX less kids. That would mean a 1200 dollar per week loss of income for that room. That wouldn't happen. They wouldn't appease one child to get the income to loose the income of six.
That is a good point Nannyde! I wasn't even thinking centers and ratios!
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Unregistered 05:44 AM 01-01-2014
The "a" word has always been whispered in our house. Her father has a very mild form and we've kept a close eye on her. I was actually looking at her the other day and thought we must in the clear because she's so verbal and smart. Now I'm anxious. She has a lot of other weird little things- not even sure what to call them. We have a lot of trouble when the seasons change. She hates to go from long to short sleeves and we spent quite a while having to get her used to it. She is very picky about her clothing. She refuses to wear pants and will only wear skirts with tights. She went through a biting phase with no known antecedents, and we looked at sensory issues, but her teachers and doctors told me it was developmental. She also has a ton of issues with sleep and I know that can be part of the disorder. Ugh. It might even be more reason to move her to the center at my work. I work for an agency that supports individuals with intellectual disabilities. I work on the adult residential side. The center supports children with and without specials needs and if she needed support, all specialists are on site.

As far as ratios, I don't know anything about that. I know in the 2 year old room I was told there wouldn't be more than 6 kids. I don't know a lot about the 4 year old room. We only had a passing conversation where the director told me she was doing so well with the kids and teacher she was thinking of keeping her in there. I told her I wasn't sure and came home to talk to my husband about it. I called to check on her yesterday and she was in the 4 year old room, but they told me they had taken a few other of the older kids because they were low attendance because of the holidays. He grandpa picked her up.
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Unregistered 05:47 AM 01-01-2014
forgot to say, we're in PA
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Angelsj 04:24 PM 01-01-2014
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
The "a" word has always been whispered in our house. Her father has a very mild form and we've kept a close eye on her. I was actually looking at her the other day and thought we must in the clear because she's so verbal and smart. Now I'm anxious. She has a lot of other weird little things- not even sure what to call them. We have a lot of trouble when the seasons change. She hates to go from long to short sleeves and we spent quite a while having to get her used to it. She is very picky about her clothing. She refuses to wear pants and will only wear skirts with tights. She went through a biting phase with no known antecedents, and we looked at sensory issues, but her teachers and doctors told me it was developmental. She also has a ton of issues with sleep and I know that can be part of the disorder. Ugh. It might even be more reason to move her to the center at my work. I work for an agency that supports individuals with intellectual disabilities. I work on the adult residential side. The center supports children with and without specials needs and if she needed support, all specialists are on site.
I would absolutely get her tested. However, girls often receive a PDD-NOS diagnosis rather than true Asperger's because it presents so differently. Regardless of diagnosis, I would look into how to deal with gifted kids and the sensory issues.
All of those are issues my dd has as well. She is very sensitive to smells and clothing. Less of the mouthing things, but that also can be sensory. Typically these kids have senses that are VERY high (even light touch can hurt, or they might not be able to "forget" clothes like we do) or they have very LOW senses (might need very deep touch to feel anything.)
Outgrowing or changing seasons can be a major challenge, as these kids do not like to wear anything "different." Just buying a new pair of shoes or a coat can be an adventure.
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e.j. 05:20 PM 01-01-2014
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
The "a" word has always been whispered in our house. Her father has a very mild form and we've kept a close eye on her. I was actually looking at her the other day and thought we must in the clear because she's so verbal and smart. Now I'm anxious. She has a lot of other weird little things- not even sure what to call them. We have a lot of trouble when the seasons change. She hates to go from long to short sleeves and we spent quite a while having to get her used to it. She is very picky about her clothing. She refuses to wear pants and will only wear skirts with tights. She went through a biting phase with no known antecedents, and we looked at sensory issues, but her teachers and doctors told me it was developmental. She also has a ton of issues with sleep and I know that can be part of the disorder. Ugh. It might even be more reason to move her to the center at my work. I work for an agency that supports individuals with intellectual disabilities. I work on the adult residential side. The center supports children with and without specials needs and if she needed support, all specialists are on site.

As far as ratios, I don't know anything about that. I know in the 2 year old room I was told there wouldn't be more than 6 kids. I don't know a lot about the 4 year old room. We only had a passing conversation where the director told me she was doing so well with the kids and teacher she was thinking of keeping her in there. I told her I wasn't sure and came home to talk to my husband about it. I called to check on her yesterday and she was in the 4 year old room, but they told me they had taken a few other of the older kids because they were low attendance because of the holidays. He grandpa picked her up.
Your teachers and doctors may be correct that these things are just developmental but to me, they seem more like red flags given that your husband has Asperger's. Are they aware of that? It seems as if it could be an important fact for them to know.

Your company's day care center may be good for her but I would ask to observe the classroom first. I'd pay close attention to the teachers and how they respond to the kids but I would also pay close attention to the behavior of the other kids who will be behavioral role models for your dd on a daily basis.
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kindertouch 08:03 AM 01-05-2014
I would take the advice from someone here regarding having your daughter checked by a doctor. The results will give you an idea about the things she likes and you will understand more about her behavior soon.

About moving her to a school near your office, I think it will benefit you both. But if you can bring her to the nearest school and have her have a look at it, who knows she'll love it there.
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cheerfuldom 06:13 PM 01-05-2014
Judging from her family history and what you have described, I would seek a second opinion regarding any possible special needs and then make your choice regarding daycare. Really it seems so convenient to take her to the on site childcare and because they are prepared for special needs kids, you have that service to fall back on if you need it. also, I feel that children at more average developmental levels would benefit from staff that is so educated and prepared for varied needs. How does that compare with your current daycare? I am guessing it may be like many daycare centers in that a majority of the staff has only a few credit hours of early child development plus a high school diploma. For me, I would go with an immediate change to this new center because you already know your child is not thriving well and that the current staff recognizes that and has only offered one solution, which you don't really feel comfortable with. I wouldn't call that daycare hopping. If your kid is telling you she really doesnt like it there and the staff is supporting the idea that she is struggling, it seems like it is time for a change.
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Evansmom 06:51 PM 02-06-2014
I have read that Aspie girls frequently get a wrong diagnosis for years and that many docs are not qualified to identify it in girls so please be careful in choosing the right doc for her. And if at first you don't get a diagnosis that you feel is right, get a second and third opinion.

Both my boys have it, I have it. I personally believe it's no cause for concern. Getting a diagnosis may help you understand her behaviors better but so can reading a book. My point is that sometimes Aspies don't need intervention, we just need understanding people around us. My husband just thinks I'm eccentric!
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daycarediva 09:43 AM 02-07-2014
I have a dcg who I have suspicions of aspergers about. She does remarkably well here, at just 2 has full conversations with myself, my husband and adores the 4.5yo dcg. She also has the ability to do things at her own pace and doesn't need to 'keep up' with the older children. She is still two physically, for sure.

My dh has aspergers, and our oldest son has high functioning autism.

Originally Posted by Unregistered:
The "a" word has always been whispered in our house. Her father has a very mild form and we've kept a close eye on her. I was actually looking at her the other day and thought we must in the clear because she's so verbal and smart. Now I'm anxious. She has a lot of other weird little things- not even sure what to call them. We have a lot of trouble when the seasons change. She hates to go from long to short sleeves and we spent quite a while having to get her used to it. She is very picky about her clothing. She refuses to wear pants and will only wear skirts with tights. She went through a biting phase with no known antecedents, and we looked at sensory issues, but her teachers and doctors told me it was developmental. She also has a ton of issues with sleep and I know that can be part of the disorder. Ugh. It might even be more reason to move her to the center at my work. I work for an agency that supports individuals with intellectual disabilities. I work on the adult residential side. The center supports children with and without specials needs and if she needed support, all specialists are on site.

As far as ratios, I don't know anything about that. I know in the 2 year old room I was told there wouldn't be more than 6 kids. I don't know a lot about the 4 year old room. We only had a passing conversation where the director told me she was doing so well with the kids and teacher she was thinking of keeping her in there. I told her I wasn't sure and came home to talk to my husband about it. I called to check on her yesterday and she was in the 4 year old room, but they told me they had taken a few other of the older kids because they were low attendance because of the holidays. He grandpa picked her up.
Tips on seasonal clothing changes-I start my son off in the month or two before the change wearing a short sleeve shirt over his long sleeve shirt, watched the temperature (even bought ds a thermometer that hangs outside of his bedroom window. I put a small picture of a Tshirt on 50*, etc for the visual reminder of necessary clothing. I would also allow her to make her own clothing selections in the store, if you aren't already.

I think the center at your workplace sounds the most promising. It would not hurt to set up a meet and greet, and speak to the director specifically about what THEY would do for your daughter should she attend there. I think you need more options than putting her in the 4's room.
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Unregistered 07:44 AM 02-16-2014
Update: So we did move my little one to the center at my work. She claims to hate it and tells me nightly that she's not going back. She's made up an imaginary friend who goes there and says he pinches her. It's weird, but when I pick her up she refuses to leave, tells me she likes it and had fun, but then later tells me she wants to go to the old school or stay with grandma. It's only been a few weeks, hopefully she'll adjust. On the plus- I'm paying via payroll deduction and saving a ton of money, and it's super convenient!

As for the autism stuff, I've done some research and am not interested in a formal diagnosis at this point. If this is who she is, we're the ones who are going to change and adjust- I don't want to work on "fixing" her. I'm also not thrilled with labeling her at this age. If I find that she's having issues making friends at this center in the next few months or slow to learn new skills, we'll look into some help.

Thanks all!
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Heidi 03:09 PM 02-17-2014
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Update: So we did move my little one to the center at my work. She claims to hate it and tells me nightly that she's not going back. She's made up an imaginary friend who goes there and says he pinches her. It's weird, but when I pick her up she refuses to leave, tells me she likes it and had fun, but then later tells me she wants to go to the old school or stay with grandma. It's only been a few weeks, hopefully she'll adjust. On the plus- I'm paying via payroll deduction and saving a ton of money, and it's super convenient!

As for the autism stuff, I've done some research and am not interested in a formal diagnosis at this point. If this is who she is, we're the ones who are going to change and adjust- I don't want to work on "fixing" her. I'm also not thrilled with labeling her at this age. If I find that she's having issues making friends at this center in the next few months or slow to learn new skills, we'll look into some help.

Thanks all!

Thanks for the update! We rarely get them and are often left wondering.

Sounds like a little power show with the "I'm not going back". I'd just answer it with some silly answer for now, unless you believe she's really distressed. Sounds like she's not, though. As for a label, I can see where you're coming from. Just keep in mind, though, that once she's school age, you may want to reconsider it. Sometimes, the only way to get services or be recognized is with that label. Either that, or find a good private school that honors children's individuality. ESPECIALLY if she's intellectually gifted.

Not sure if I already have you this, but here's a great organization/website for families with gifted children: http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/
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My3cents 03:58 PM 02-18-2014
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Update: So we did move my little one to the center at my work. She claims to hate it and tells me nightly that she's not going back. She's made up an imaginary friend who goes there and says he pinches her. It's weird, but when I pick her up she refuses to leave, tells me she likes it and had fun, but then later tells me she wants to go to the old school or stay with grandma.This is normal in a transition. The fact that she is loving it when you are there and not wanting to leave says a lot. I think she will adjust. She will pull your bluff and buttons and guilt strings of manipulation telling you she wants to go to her old school and Grandmas. Who doesn't want to go to Grandmas? I think she just misses some aspects of what was normal to her at the old school. I say give it time- It's only been a few weeks, hopefully she'll adjust. On the plus- I'm paying via payroll deduction and saving a ton of money, and it's super convenient!

As for the autism stuff, I've done some research and am not interested in a formal diagnosis at this point. If this is who she is, we're the ones who are going to change and adjust- I don't want to work on "fixing" her. I'm also not thrilled with labeling her at this age. If I find that she's having issues making friends at this center in the next few months or slow to learn new skills, we'll look into some help.

Thanks all!
Love your attitude and perspective- I think you made the best choice for your little amazing daughter~ Best
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Unregistered 07:45 PM 03-22-2014
Another update I just had to add- she doesn't cry at drop off anymore! She has cried every day since I went back to work. The last week has been wonderful!
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Tags:ratio, ratio - over limit, ratio increase
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