My friend and I started a daycare about 3 months ago. She bought the building so she is the boss; however, she doesn't actually work at the daycare. She does AP with her daughter and wants me to do AP with all the kids at the daycare. I am seriously struggling with this request. I have almost 8 years experience working at a daycare center along with a bachelors degree in elementary education. After doing much research on AP, I am more convinced this will not work in a large daycare setting. I have a 19 mo daughter and we do whatever works for her. She has CIO when I know everything is fine (changed bottom, fed, warm, etc...). I did co sleep with her until she started sleeping through the night at about 5mo. i breast fed on demand until she was 6mo and i went back to work. I also knew she was going to go to daycare, so I introduced a bottle and tried not to carry her ALL the time. I know how hard it is to have a baby that is used to being carried all the time in a daycare. It is not possible to carry or co sleep when you have lots of other kids to attend to.

i am not saying AP is wrong, just that it is not ideal for children who are going to be in daycare. When you have 8 under 2 to care for, how can you AP all of them? I am pulling my hair out here! And to make matters worse, my friends daughter is at the daycare and she is the rudest most defiant child I have ever encountered. She will give dirty looks and yell at me if she does want to do whatever I just asker her to do. She is a pusher and a hitter. And if I try to correct the behavior, she just runs crying to mommy who then tells her it is ok and undermines any authority I might have had. Her daughter treats others with no respect and because her mom coddles her, she gets away with the behaviors. oh and her daughter is an extremely articulate 26mo.

If my daughter ever talked to or treated anyone the way this 26mo does, I would be mortified! If this is the results of AP...I don't want to do it!

Advice? How do I use AP while maintaining the respect and structure necessary to run a cohesive daycare?

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My only thoughts is that this partnership should have been thought through more thoroughly. Your different parenting styles and probably business styles will make it extremely stressful in the environment. Do you have a lot of money invested into this joint business venture? Can you ask your friend/business partner to buy you out on your portion and you start your own daycare and run it as you seem fit?

One thing that a lot of us providers warn about is mixing personal/family relationships with business. A lot of times it simply just does not work out. It's hard enough for a joint-owner venture to work out without the owners having a personal relationship but when you know your partner closely you are risking losing that friendship. My DH once brought up the subject about when we purchased a new and bigger home that he could retire from his job and help in my daycare so that we could expand the daycare to a bigger license (to have more DC kids). I did think it was a possible idea but only because I made it clear that if we were to do that that I would continue to be the sole owner of my business and he would simply be my assistant. My daycare, my rules. This is the only way that I would ever think about doing this with my husband or anyone else for that matter.

When you two decided to open this daycare did you both decide that since she was buying the building that she would be the boss? If that's so then you really don't have a choice but to follow her wishes. You can communicate your concerns to her however if she continues to want to run the daycare her way then you must follow her instructions.

Can you explain how your co-ownership works further? What did you two decide would be each other's responsibilities?

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I think it is that sort of parent that gives AP a really bad name. I didn't wear/etc my son but the essence of AP at least to me is the essence of quality care in general - responsiveness to the child & the child's wants/needs. There is nothing that precludes appropriate behavioral boundaries & that is certainly not doing the child any favors.
I would never leave a child alone to cio at naptime/etc. But infants simply cannot recieve the same sort of physical contact etc in a childcare situation as they can with a parent. But they can still have responsive care & thrive

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Welcome Gretchyn!!

I think the PP's have given some really good advice.

I think you have a couple issues and not all of them are related.

One is your working relationship with your friend. I hate to say this but from what little you have said, I just don't see this working out well unless you tow have some FIRM rules and boundaries in place.

For her to expect her DD to get special treatment or to not have to follow your authority is just not going to work and it is VERY unfair to the other children in care. If she is not going to work in the center, but still have her DD attend then she really needs you to be able to be the authority with ALL the children including her DD.

I also think that although AP is a great technique for parenting, it really isn't one that coincides with ANY thing daycare. It is extremely difficult to meet the needs of multiple children at one time and since that is the point of Attachment Parenting, I see this as shoveling snow while it is still snowing hard....kwim?

Are the other families in care signing on with your center BECAUSE they want their child AP'ed? Are they aware of the behavior of the owner's DD?

I would be concerned about the loss of clients due to the owner's child as well as the parents maybe not being on board with their child being AP'ed since IME, it seems a lot of people have their children in centers so they learn to be more independent and learn self-help skills. I think that AP'ing in a group of children could possibly create and environment of competing for the teachers or caregivers (you) attention.

How many staff and children are in this center?

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This whole situation sounds like a hot mess. I would suggest that the boss work the daycare room for several days and then tell you how she envisions fitting AP into the care of the group. She is so gung-ho then let her be the boss.....you bring the problem to her and she needs to solve it, thats the boss's job.

but if it were me, I would never go into business with a friend, give special treatment to one child, or offer to AP within group care. If you can, just cut your losses and get out of this job fast.

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My friend is the owner of the business since she is the one who is financially invested. I have invested numerous hours but no actual money. In the beginning I was to be in charge of the day to day operations. Paperwork, schedules, creating lessons and activities...that sort of thing. She is a counselor and would be available occasionally to do the emotional side of the daycare, since she has very limited experience in a daycare setting. She praises me daily on the smooth flow of the daycare. However, she does not feel the need to stick with the established routine. I was gone for two days and it was literally a mess when I got back. She said tending to the children's emotions was more important than anything else, and then it was too late in the day to follow my cleaning schedule...she was tired.

I mostly want advice on how to incorporate the AP if possible. If you think it s not possible, can you give reasons and examples?

Thanks

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Thank you for your insights.
We are advertising our daycare as an Eco-friendly, organic, whole body mind and spirit daycare. My friend is a counselor so she is supposed to be in charge of the mind, body, and spirit part, while teaching me techniques. She just put out an advertising that we are also doing AP, so I have been trying o learn what that is. I assume she thinks she is doing AP. I like some of what I have read about AP, but I am totally at a loss as how to incorporate this concept into a daycare!

Currently we have 12 kids and 2 teachers. 8 of which are under 2yo. We will be getting our center license shortly and then we could have up to 40 kids. And that is only on the first level of our building!

Our parents are attracted to the daycare because of our organic and Eco-friendly approach. Most of our kids have never been at a daycare. The parents are starting to comment on the little girls behavior and I don't know what to say. Most of the time my friend is picking her up when the other parents are there and my friend always tries to justify her behavior by saying she s tired or something.

Will AP work in a daycare setting? If so how? If not why?

Thanks again

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I did this! I was on vaca for three days and it was a hot mess when I got back. She said I don't know how you do this everyday! And then proceeded to put out an advertisement saying we are doing AP. Great...one more thing to add into an already busy and slightly over stressed person.

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I have to stay with this job, at least until I can find another, as my husband is unemployed currently and we need the income and insurance. I really need any advice on how AP could work, or how to explain to my friend that in a daycare setting it doesn't!

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you know what? I am starting to doubt that your friend/boss even knows what AP is. I have a feeling that she is using the AP label as an excuse to be a permissive parent. You should find out what exactly HER definition of AP is.

First of all, you cannot do AP in a group setting because AP stands for attachment parenting. Your job is not to parent children! They already have parents. It is offensive to many parents that a provider is saying they practice AP with the kids....essentially saying that a provider can be everything to a child that a parent would be....that the provide is just the same as the parent and the parent is replaceable. If you continue with the advertising, you should phrase it in a better way. "We support those that practice attachment parenting"

Secondly, in case you didnt know, AP was begun with the practices of Dr. Sears and the 7 B's. Here's a link....http://www.askdrsears.com/topics/att...t-ap-7-baby-bs

If you check the link, 3 of the B's cannot be done by a provider (birthing, breastfeeding, bedding with baby) and a 4th cannot be done for more than one or two kids at a time (baby wearing). Present this list to your friend/boss and ask her for specifics of how she would suggest you incorporate what B's you can into the program. IMO the main way that you can get closer to AP practices it to reduce your ratio. A 4 to 1 ratio would be tolerable but the less the better, for AP. AP is meant to be practiced between one child and their parent(s). Even if a parent had twins or kids close in age, it still wouldnt be what you are doing of 8 to 1 ratio.

It sounds like you are doing most, if not all of the dirty work with the daycare here. Your friend gets most of the perks. She walks into a room and tosses around ideas and turns her wild child lose in the room and you have to clean up the mess. Seriously, start looking for a new job. You are dealing with a lot more right now than just this AP thing.

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I totally agree!

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You should ask her exactly how she wants you to implement AP principles in your classroom and follow her lead. Let her know if something she says is unrealistic in a group setting.

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I do not think that AP would work in a group setting! I have experience in being a lead toddler and infant teacher in a group setting. Our ratio is 1:4 for children under 2 1/2, plus in my experience, even though the ratio is 1:4, there was always more than four children and more than one teacher so even though we primarily took care of our four children, we also helped with others as well. Between feedings, diapers, rocking children, activities etc...It was difficult to sit with one child like you do with AP. While I did bond with some of the children, it's hard to do so with all of them. Plus as others have said, AP is for parents to do and with what Cheerfuldom has said it's impossible for a caregiver to do some aspects of AP with other peoples children. I do think however that in a group setting, you need to try to give each child as much attention as you can-there is a lot of vying for attention the more children you have in a room. This is one reason I decided to stay at home after I had my son and open a FCC instead of going back to the center that I worked at. I loved my co-workers and would trust them with my baby, but with 8-12 or babies in the infant room, I know he wouldn't have gotten as much attention. I'm not saying that my child has to have sole attention of someone, but I know how difficult it is to give a lot of attention to more than one or two children under 2! Believe me, I tried my best to give as much attention as I could to each child when I worked in the center, but it is difficult. With that being said, I don't think it is feasable(sp) in a big group setting.

Bye the way, have your friend come to work and try to do AP with the kids. Then she'll see what it's like being in your shoes for a day! Good Luck!

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This is what I was wondering as well.......

What exactly is her definition?




Dr. Sears is always one to point out AP is an approach, a tool, the bottom line is a very broad approach and *not* a strict set of rules.

Just because a mother has a c-section and cannot bond immediately after birth, or an infant is born prematurely and needs to stay in a NICU, or a mother can't breastfeed, or a father has a disability that prevents him from babywearing....doesn't at all mean that they aren't utilizing AP. The core belief is merely responsiveness, and it isn't an all inclusive or you're out sort of style.

It's also never defined as exclusive to biological parents. It's actually highly encouraged practice for those who foster, or adopt as well as those who are in ANY position as primary caregiver of a child. As daycare providers if a child is spending 8-10 of their waking hours a day in your care that makes you primary and by far the most influential caregiver.

If your rations are high then of course it's going to be incredibly difficult if not impossible to employ, but I set my max at 6 and it's very do-able in many ways. Most days it's impossible to hit perfect, but that's not a requirement of the beliefs or style.

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Gretchyn - the core belief in regards to AP is that responsiveness is best.

If a baby cries it's not because they have some ulterior motive. If a child wants your attention it's not because they are spoiled. If they act out it's not because they're naughty and need punishment. In all they are in need of something from you....feeding, holding, nurturing, engagement, guidance etc.

Pushing schedules isn't encouraged, it's about being respectful and responsive to the child's individual needs. That doesn't mean you have to serve lunch at 4pm, but it may mean you don't force an unhungry child to eat. If a child comes tired you might let them nap outside of your regular nap time. If they need to be held a bit more for awhile then you provide that.

When you're hungry you eat. When you're tired you sleep. When you're bored you find something to do. When you are lonely you engage others.

All AP is is respecting that children have those same feelings and deserve to have those feelings and needs tended to when THEY feel them, not necessarily when is most convenient for the adult caring for them.



AP was not designed for the irregularities of large group centers, but many aspects are very executable is a small group family care setting.

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AP does not work in the dc setting. I had ONE kid that was AP and trying to watch 5 other kids and her was M~I~S~E~R~A~B~L~E!! Never again!

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It's definitely a personal choice, but saying it never works isn't fair or accurate.

It can, and does.


Just depends on the family and the what exactly the individual provider is comfortable with.


One experience isn't enough to throw out such broad sweeping generalizations.

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Exactly! Tons of people think AP means let your child do whatever he wants. That's just not it. AP to me also means having quality time with the children, responding to their needs in a way that nurtures them.

Good luck!

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Well said! I second this.

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She may give plenty of compliments but I don't see an onze of respect. I agree with those who have suggested you find a new job.

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These are the 8 basic principles of AP according to Dr. Sears

Preparation for Pregnancy, Birth and Parenting
Feed with Love and Respect
Respond with Sensitivity
Use Nurturing Touch
Ensure Safe Sleep, Physically and Emotionally
Provide Consistent Loving Care
Practice Positive Discipline
Strive for Balance in Personal and Family Life

In what I researched and from what I read from Dr. Sears explanations I came to the conclusion that it's opened to interpretation to fit the needs of each family. Those 8 points seem pretty obvious points to me anyhow so it can work in a daycare setting. The only problem is that there aren't any guidelines to follow so these need to be clearly defined by your daycare before you promote AP or you can find yourself in a mess.

For example to one parent AP can mean lots of cuddling, soothing touches and language, cooing while breastfeeding/feeding a child, tender responses, no bedding in a crib, positive reinforcement and taking time out of the day to dedicate to your child. To another parent AP could mean natural birthing, no diapers, publicly breastfeeding until the age of 5, responding to cries immediately, baby wearing the majority of the day, family beds at home and sleep "nests" at DC, never saying "no" and wanting their child to be held at all times. Family #1's version of AP could definitively work in daycare while family #2 can be harder to work with. See what I mean. There aren't any defined guidelines.

The way that willow explained AP is a lot like RIE (Magda Gerber's Educaring approach) which is definitively doable in childcare but again that's one interpretation.

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Bingo to this!!! and also Bingo to what MarinaVannessa gave you for advise.

You will resent your job in no time at all and hate going to work if you continue like this. you need to figure out more of the financial end of things and a clear description of who is doing what. It does sound like your doing all the crud work while your friend makes up the rules because she forked out the front money.

COMMUNICATION is KEY and you don't have that going at all- If you can't communicate between each other now, how on earth are you going to be on the same page for communicating to the parents-

If you were in charge of her daughter then having her undermine you in front of the child will never work, she has to be able to trust that you have good judgement for what is best for the child or discuss it in private with you if she does not agree.

Don't want to burst your bubbles but your headed down a road of disasters. I advise you to pull out and start your own business after much research on which direction you want to go, or regroup and put it all back out on the table and come up with a plan that works for both of you that is CLEAR

Best-

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I think where people get confused is when they assume AP means a caregiver has to be on the extremist end of "crunchy" and follow that standard to the letter every single day.

No where does it say that is the definition or expectation.

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Sounds to me like the owner is using the phrase "attachment parenting" as an advertising gimmick. The "P" stands for parenting, not daycare. I don't get this at all. Obviously you won't be breast feeding the babies and Co-sleeping with them all at nap time, and.isn't it understood that children will be responded to with nurturing kindness? Gimmicky. Clever ad campaign. The eco friendly, organic approach is great, but the AP angle is silly. My opinion.

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